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In this episode, our lead speaking coach Diane Diaz speaks with Michelle Massman, a longtime entrepreneur and graduate of our Thought Leader Academy, who shares her journey from “stuck” to “unstoppable” through storytelling and public...
In this episode, our lead speaking coach Diane Diaz speaks with Michelle Massman, a longtime entrepreneur and graduate of our Thought Leader Academy, who shares her journey from “stuck” to “unstoppable” through storytelling and public speaking.
You’ll hear Michelle’s candid stories—from launching unexpected ventures like The Culinary Studio to her partnership with a music group—that reveal her resilience and passion for following her intuition.
As Diane and Michelle discuss the power of sharing vulnerable stories, Michelle opens up about the anxiety she’s faced and how she’s turned her experiences into speaking topics that resonate deeply with her audiences. Her frameworks, including From Stuck to Unstoppable and Passion to Profit, provide practical steps for anyone feeling stuck or seeking more clarity and confidence.
Michelle’s story is a reminder that by saying “yes” to opportunities, connecting with the right people, and being willing to share your authentic self, you can create incredible impact and growth for both yourself and others.
Diane and Michelle talk about:
Finding clarity on the message you want to share and ways to bring your unique story to life
Connecting with audiences authentically by sharing vulnerable, relatable experiences
Understanding the power of frameworks and storytelling to guide and engage listeners
Gaining inspiration to overcome obstacles and embrace your next speaking opportunity
About Our Guest: Michelle Massman has been a visionary entrepreneur for over 30 years and knew, even as a teen, that she wanted to own a business someday. After working at a few (ok several) jobs, she realized she didn’t like being told what to do, and didn’t like managing people. So she started her business and loved it! She has guided, launched, directed and overhauled everything from small start up ventures to multi-million dollar private companies, consulted with hundreds of people in the areas of entrepreneurship, marketing, brand partnerships, event production, and music management, and weathered failures and missteps that have given her experience and knowledge that she uses to help her clients sidestep them. Michelle’s sweet spot, as a problem solver, connector, advocate, and persuasive force, is the ability to jump into any problem and help find the best solution while helping her clients access the knowledge they need to get unstuck in their business.
Links:
Show notes at https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/419/
Michelle’s website: https://www.michellemassman.com/
Discover your Speaker Archetype by taking our free quiz at https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/quiz/
Enroll in our Thought Leader Academy: https://www.speakingyourbrand.com/academy/
Connect on LinkedIn:
Carol Cox = https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolcox
Diane Diaz = https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianediaz/
Michelle Massman (guest) = https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-massman-6629236/
It's time to escape the expert trap and become an in-demand speaker and thought leader through compelling and memorable business presentations, keynotes, workshops, and TEDx talks. If you want to level up your public speaking to get more and better, including paid, speaking engagements, you've come to the right place! Thousands of entrepreneurs and leaders have learned from Speaking Your Brand and now you can too through our episodes that will help you with storytelling, audience engagement, building confidence, handling nerves, pitching to speak, getting paid, and more. Hosted by Carol Cox, entrepreneur, speaker, and TV political analyst. This is your place to learn how to persuasively communicate your message to your audience.
Diane Diaz:
Do you ever feel like your voice maybe isn't
being heard? Or that maybe you're stuck
telling the same old stories, or you're not
even sure how to tell your own stories in
your work or in your message?
Well, I'm Diane Diaz, lead speaking coach at
Speaking Your Brand. And on today's episode,
it's going to be all about breaking through
those barriers and diving into the power of
using your voice, telling your story, and
how speaking can be a game changer for your
personal brand building, but also building
your business.
And who better to guide us through this?
And someone who's spent over 30 years
solving problems, building businesses, and
empowering others to do the same.
So get ready for some inspiring insights on
entrepreneurship, storytelling, her speaking
journey, and finding your voice as we
welcome Michelle Mosman to the show.
Welcome to the podcast, Michelle.
Michelle Massman:
Thank you Diane.
It is so great to be here.
Diane Diaz:
Oh, I'm so excited for our listeners to hear
from you. And so we'll talk a little bit
about how you came to working with us.
But first, let's just start by you giving
our audience a little bit of insight into
who you are and what you do in your
business.
Michelle Massman:
Okay. Well, I have owned my business, as you
said, for over 30 years, which is kind of
crazy to me. But over that time, I've done
all kinds of things.
But in a nutshell, I usually say that I'm an
on demand vice president.
And so what I mean by that is that I work
with a lot of entrepreneur clients, and most
of the time it's smaller businesses.
I work with a lot of women entrepreneurs.
A lot of times they're solopreneurs, or they
might have a small team, but they're not
really in a position where they have a vice
president in their company.
And so a lot of my consulting work is
working as an on demand vice president.
So I will sometimes work with people on a
long term basis. Sometimes it's on a shorter
term basis, But the best part about it is
that once I get to know their company and
them as a person, I can hold that story.
And so if they call me three months later or
six months later and say, now I'm having
this issue, we can pick up where we left off
and not have to go through that entire, you
know, understanding the business again.
And so I love working with my clients.
In addition to that, I also co-own and
operate two music groups.
That's a whole other story.
And I just launched a new business with a
new business partner two weeks ago called
The Culinary Studio, which is going to be
teaching cooking classes in my area.
I partnered with a woman who is a chef and a
culinary instructor, and so we just launched
that as well, which is turning into my next
speaking topic, um, which is really about
passion to profit and how entrepreneurs
build what they want.
And sometimes we have to, you know, really
be aware of how we're taking what we want
and what the market needs into account.
Diane Diaz:
That is fascinating.
So for our listeners, I kind of already knew
Michelle was sort of this multi-passionate
person, but to hear that you're now adding
another thing, you're sort of like, what?
Like they say, Renaissance man.
You're like a Renaissance woman, like you're
into you're dabbling in different things.
But there's obviously some connective
thread. And so we'll get to that in a
minute. But I'm curious if you can share
what, like if we back up in time, what
brought you to doing this work as an on
demand CEO? Because, I mean, obviously you
probably didn't start out that way, but what
brought you to that? And then what brought
you to the music group portion of it?
I'm so interested to hear what the how that
journey happened.
Michelle Massman:
Oh, it's so interesting.
Diane. Um, you know, when I was when I was
growing up, I knew early, I think that I was
going to have to own my own company because
I really wasn't a good employee and I didn't
like being the boss necessarily.
So I didn't really want to have employees.
I didn't want to be accounting for that.
But I also I just wanted to forge my own
path. I just don't, um, I think the best way
I can describe it is when I was younger and
I would have various jobs as soon as I
really got to know and understand the job,
and felt like I had done as much as I could
to contribute to making it better, I was
ready to move on.
And so.
So that's how I ended up starting my own
business when I was 22.
So I would say that how I got into this is I
was working full time in a temporary
position at a university in their purchasing
department. And in 1989 I got married.
And when I came back from my honeymoon, they
offered me a full time, permanent position.
And I went home and told my husband about
it, and I said, I don't want to take it
Because if I do, I'm going to be in this job
for the rest of my life.
Because to move away from the really good
salary, the benefits, those kinds of things
to do, anything else later on would be
really hard. And he said, you know, I agree.
At that time he had a full time position as
a manager and he said, we don't own
anything. They can't take anything away.
So if you want to start a business, do it
now.
Diane Diaz:
I love that.
I can't take anything away, so now's the
time, you know? That's so smart because I
think sometimes we do and I know I did it
and I it's probably happens less now because
you see more and more younger people
starting businesses. But, you know, back in
the day it was get your college degree,
start working, work there for 40 years,
retire and then, you know, that's that.
But it's not like that anymore.
So I but I love to see people who are in the
more seasoned part of their career doing
that, doing multiple things.
I do that right.
But it but also I love how your story to
talk about story, your story of, you know,
you liked to do things your own way.
You got bored with jobs like you wanted to
move on to the next thing. Your story
informed where you are now.
And so how did the music thing come to be?
How did what was the connection there?
Michelle Massman:
Well, interestingly, how that happened, I had
already been in business for several years
and working mostly with women entrepreneurs,
which is kind of my favorite, and I was
doing a women's showcase event at that time.
It was an annual event that drew seven or 8
or 9000 people a year to this huge event,
and it had all kinds of components to it.
But we did a lot of entertainment, and I had
hired a music group called Tonic Solfa,
which is an a cappella group, to perform at
the event, and Shawn Johnson, who is one of
the members of the group and one of the
owners of the group, called me one day to
advance the show, and it just so happened
that he was the one doing it that at that
time, and we ended up on the phone together
for four hours.
So we decided from there that we should
continue our conversation and have coffee.
And as it turned out, he was, as I said, one
of the owners of the group and that company,
and we just really clicked.
We were both in a position at that point
where we weren't really in a burnout phase,
but we were getting close to it because we
just needed an infusion of new creativity
into our companies and ended up being able
to do that for each other.
And within a year, he asked me if I would
come on as vice president for the music
group and help him operate the company.
And since then, a few years after that, we
launched another performance group called
the Shawn Johnson Big Band Experience.
And I'm co-owner and we've been doing that
for, gosh, I've been working with him now
for 20 years.
Diane Diaz:
That is incredible.
That is incredible. So, you know, you never
know where opportunities come along.
And I was just reminded me of a conversation
I was just having with some younger women
that I was mentoring for a women's group
that I'm in and they're in college.
And so one of the things that I said just
sort of trying to give some little nuggets
of advice to help them, you know, in their
career, throughout their careers.
But it was to say yes to things when they
come along. Like, don't be afraid to say yes
even if you don't know how to do it, even if
you aren't sure you can do it, just say yes
because you don't know what that opportunity
is going to lead to. It may be the thing, or
it may lead to the next thing, right?
And so you've sort of followed that I have.
Michelle Massman:
And what's really interesting is that I've
always really followed my intuition and felt
like that's going to take me in the right
place. But what I find fascinating about
that as well, is that I even tried to
dissuade Sean from wanting me to be vice
president of the company, because I didn't
know the music industry, and he was very
clear that he's like, no, that's why I want
you, because you bring a whole different
perspective to this.
And so I think that that's really important.
And so we've done that for each other.
We've maintained our own companies in
addition to operating companies together.
Um, and we've done that for each other over
all of this time in our partnership.
And actually, speaking of speaking and
storytelling, he and I actually now do
speaking together as well.
And we talk about our business partnership
and how to maintain a really good business
partnership. We talk about conflict and how
you deal with adversity when it comes up.
We had an embezzlement situation in one of
the music groups a few years ago.
That's a whole story by itself.
So I mean, so we talk, we do speaking
together, I do speaking on my own.
And we both just really love to share about
what we've learned.
Diane Diaz:
That's fantastic.
And so let's let's take that little speaking
nugget. Let's back up a little where when in
your career and where in your career did you
if you did, did you first start speaking
maybe publicly or just in any form?
When did that come about?
Michelle Massman:
That started when I was 15.
Oh, tell me about that. I yes, as I said, I
have this weird kind of career of jobs.
And so when I was about 14, I decided that I
did not like babysitting.
I don't know why, I just didn't like it.
And that was one of the only options for us
right when we were young.
So I decided to sell Avon, and I had to get
my mother's permission to sell Avon at 14
years old. So I did that for a couple of
years. But when I was 15, I was also
introduced to another company called Sarah
Coventry Jewelry.
Only people my age or older will have any
idea what that is.
Um, but I know what that is.
Yes, if you remember Sarah Coventry Jewelry,
it was a home party kind of sales situation,
and I jumped in with both feet and set up
all kinds of home parties, went and did
speaking and talked about the jewelry,
talked about all kinds of other things, and
loved it. But now here's the interesting
twist. I started that when I was 15.
Now, when I was a freshman in high school, I
was supposed to take freshman speech class.
I pushed it off until I was a senior.
It was in my last semester as a senior in
high school that I finally took freshman
speech. Because I did not want to do it.
I was terrified, I was anxiety ridden over
the idea of doing that, but I had no problem
on evenings and weekends going out and
speaking to make money.
And so I learned really, really early that
my confidence as a speaker is completely
tied to my message and my audience hundred
percent.
Diane Diaz:
What a great lesson, and I'm glad you shared
that, because I think, you know, I know
there's people listening to this that are
thinking, I could never be a speaker.
Maybe they're listening because they have
aspirations to be a speaker or in some
capacity they need to speak, but they're
really not jazzed about it because it it can
be very, very scary.
But here's the thing.
Like you just said, Michelle, when you are
passionate about the topic and you care and
you're connected to it, it's your story,
it's your passion.
That's where it helps to sort of eliminate
or at least mitigate some of those some of
those fears and anxieties that we have
around speaking, because you can go out and
speak about jewelry all night long and you
loved it, that then put you in a class where
maybe you're going to speak on a topic that
you have no connection to, right?
Yeah, that can be scary when you don't feel
that the topic even resonates with you.
How are you going to make it resonate with
the audience? So to that point, your story
becomes part of that, right?
Michelle Massman:
Absolutely. And I think that I was became
very aware of it at that point.
And so after that, what I realized was that
I if I was nervous about speaking, if I had
to do something for one of my jobs, or if
there was something where it really wasn't
my passion, but I had to get up and speak
anyway, I learned early that part of the
trick for me is figuring out how to make
that message, something I am excited to
share and somehow find my connection to the
audience, even if it isn't my usual audience
and figure out how I can really build that
confidence in that selection.
Diane Diaz:
Oh, that's such a great point.
That is an excellent point.
Because, you know, I think too, even if
we're passionate about what we're speaking
on, sometimes it can feel like, oh, if we
have to speak on that, that topic we're
passionate about, it can come across as kind
of rote and a little bit like mechanical and
just facts.
But finding that emotional connection, why?
You know, why you resonate with it.
What is that thread and then helping to
bring that out in the audience.
So through your story, a personal
connection, sharing that personal connection
with the audience, that's where you can
you'll have more confidence as the speaker,
but then the audience picks up on that.
So do you find that that resonates?
Michelle Massman:
Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely. And I think one of the
things that's interesting is the thread, I
think that goes through everything that I've
done in my, in my career is that I, I just I
love people, I love connecting with people
and I.
I want people to really reach for their
dreams and to meet their goals.
And so most of the women entrepreneurs and
others that I've worked with over the years,
a lot of times they come to me when they're
stuck or somebody refers them to me because
they're stuck or, you know, and that might
mean, you know, a number of things.
It might mean they don't have the right
resources to move forward, or they need to
learn some things, or it might mean that
they just don't have the confidence level.
And so I have worked with people for years
in that capacity, and that is really what
feeds me. I love to see people get unstuck
and take action and move forward and achieve
the things that they really want to achieve.
And so when I'm speaking to people, I've
also become more and more over the years
very vulnerable.
I am so okay with telling every embarrassing
story that has ever happened to me, because
that's one of the ways I found that I'm
really able to connect with people in a very
quick time frame and usually speaking
engagements. You don't have a long time
frame, so if I'm willing to be vulnerable
and share what's happened in my world, that
helps me create that kind of heart to heart
connection very quickly.
And I've had so many people who come up to
me afterwards and say, oh my gosh, thank you
so much for sharing XYZ because I feel the
same way or I've gone through that and and
it just really helps me help them.
Diane Diaz:
Yes, the vulnerability is a great point,
Michelle. I was just having that
conversation this morning with someone that
when you're in that setting as a speaker,
you know, in the audience, I mean, they're
there to hear you, of course, but to the
extent that you're able to open up and share
your personal stories and show that
vulnerability, then you make it okay for the
audience to also have vulnerable, vulnerable
moments and to feel like it's a safe space,
right? Because we're all kind of in this
together. It builds rapport.
It builds trust.
It does make people want to be connected to
you and want to work with you.
So how have you.
And so for the audience listening, Michelle
graduated from our Thought Leader Academy
back in February of 2022.
So it's been a while, but it has.
How has.
Well, let's start first with how did you
come to want to be part of Thought Leader
Academy? What brought you into that?
Did you have a certain goal?
What was your what was your thought process
and goals for that?
Michelle Massman:
Honestly, a couple of interesting things.
One, obviously the pandemic, because during
the pandemic, I mean, prior to that, I a big
part of what I was doing was working with
the music group. So in 2020, we canceled 90
concerts. So it was it was a huge shift.
And so during that time, I did start taking
a couple different classes.
I started learning about creating online
courses. I started learning about a variety
of things, but one of the things I came
across, Carole Cox and I came across all of
your wonderful work, and it really struck me
that this was a time for me to kind of get
deeper into some of that, because I was
being asked to do a lot of virtual speaking
at that time, and I was being asked to talk
to groups of business owners and trying to
help them adapt and figure out where to go
next. In this whole process of how do we get
through all of this?
And so that's how I jumped in and it was a
fantastic experience.
I wanted to hone my message a little bit
more. I wanted to I really also wanted to
get a little deeper into what I really
wanted to say, what what was really
important for me to tell people and to help
people with, because there are so many
topics that people have asked me to speak
about, and I can talk about quite a few
things. I actually love to talk, but I
really wanted to get a little deeper into
what I wanted to share, what my message was,
because I'm also not a spring chicken
anymore. Um, you know, so I found that I
love working with women who are in their
40s, 50s and beyond who are maybe adapting
from one business to another business or,
you know, building something new in their in
their career or learning how to go out and
present. But I love working with people that
are in that age group because I'm I'm in
that age group and I'm launching new
businesses. I'm 58, so we've got a lot to
accomplish. And so I think that the The
Thought Leader Academy really helped me
focus in on the topics and the points that
were so important to me, and then gave me
some great new techniques and tips on how to
do that better.
So I'm forever grateful to you and Carol and
everybody who was in my cohort of that
course to really, you know, help me figure
that out.
Diane Diaz:
Oh, well, thank you for the kind words,
Michelle, and I'm so glad that you found it
valuable, because I think probably the
biggest thing that I feel comes from, well,
maybe two things that are the biggest things
that come from the Thought Leader Academy,
or at least what we hear from from the
graduates is that, number one, the clarity
of the message which you you touched on
because we know what our topic is and we
generally we know what we want to speak
about, and we know there's something there,
but we're not quite sure how to make it
resonate with the audience and how to get
really clear on how to say it right.
And so I love that about that.
Like the clarity element that comes through
after working in the group, working on your
talk, creating your talk, and then getting
feedback and all of that, you get so much
more clarity, but also the confidence of
knowing that that message is going to
resonate with the audience and that the
audience does care about your story.
Your story has to be part of that message.
It's not enough to just share some tips or
something with them that's great, but they
need to know your personal connection to
the. Why are you telling them this?
What is your personal connection to it?
What things have you experienced, have
happened to you? Have happened for you?
All of that. What is your personal tie to
that message? Why does it matter to you that
resonates with the audience too?
So I loved hearing that you were able to get
that out of thought Leader Academy and then
incorporate that into your speaking.
Michelle Massman:
Well, you know that that was it was such a
great experience. And I've continued to go
back to my binder.
I have a binder of all of my notes and
things like that. I've continued to go back
to that multiple times, and if you don't
mind, I'll share with you really quickly the
three themes that I have really found that
I've been working on most lately in my
speaking and in my consulting work.
One is from Stuck to Unstoppable, and that
is the process I've been using with my
clients for years, and that I use myself for
how I get unstuck when I get in that mode.
And believe me, it still happens all the
time. I sometimes deal with imposter
syndrome or More perfectionism or all the
different things, right?
I just did I just created an ebook for From
Stuck to Unstoppable, because my clients had
asked me if I would do that so that they
would have something they could kind of go
through. So I created that and I decided,
okay, I'm putting it out there for anybody
who wants to use it. I literally priced it
at $4.99, which a bunch of my friends said,
are you crazy? I said, no, I just want
people to be able to get help.
And so I deal with those things myself, and
I've got lots of stories there.
And then the second one is called It's All
in the Approach, and this one came about a
couple of years ago. I say it to people all
the time. It's all in the approach, and we
have to think about what our approach is.
And the very first example that I give to
people is in the music group.
Um, we use a lot of musicians.
And so we had hired a musician to work at a
show, and he one day contacted Sean and I by
text and said, hey, just wanted to let you
know that I got offered to perform with
another group on the same day as your show a
week later, and it's a group I've always
wanted to work with, so I'm going to do that
gig. Sorry I can't be there.
And little did he know that obviously that
means sorry. Big X goes next to your name
and we're never going to hire you again.
And like I told Sean, if he had approached
it slightly differently, all he would have
had to do is come to us and say, I have this
great opportunity. I'd love to take
advantage of it if I can, but you're my
first priority. If we can find a sub for me,
then would it be okay if I take this other
gig 95% of the time?
We can always find a sub.
But he didn't approach it that way, and that
means that he'll never have another
opportunity with us.
So I like to talk to people about our
approach, how we approach things, how we
communicate. And then the third one is
passion to profit. And I mentioned that
before with the culinary studio.
I was trying to find cooking classes for two
years. Could not find any in my area.
Couldn't get into any even 90 miles away
because they were full all the time.
So finally one day I woke up and thought,
this is crazy, I'm an event producer.
I'm just going to do it myself.
So I started looking around and discovered
that there's a woman who teaches culinary at
our local high school and has taken the
culinary team there to nationals 18 years in
a row, and she's a great chef.
So I contacted her out of the blue, said,
would you be interested in teaching a couple
of private classes?
She said, yes, we did them.
They were fantastic.
Everybody wanted more.
As I got to know her a little better, I
found out she was planning to retire from
teaching and wanted to keep doing cooking
classes. And so we kept a conversation going
and boom, here we are now we're launching a
new company. But the key to that was that it
was me as an entrepreneur building what I
wanted. But then I also went out and did all
of the market research to make sure that
this was a good idea.
And so that's one of the things that I'm
talking to people about now as well is, yes,
entrepreneurs build what we want.
You want to do something you're passionate
about, but you also want to make sure that
there's a market fit before you jump in.
Diane Diaz:
Oh my God, Michelle, I love all of this so
much. First of all, just to the point of how
you've named each of those things, it's sort
of like you're what we would call your
framework or, you know, the way you think
about the thing that you do, right?
And so you are packaging it up with a name.
Such clarity also makes it easy to talk
about. And in telling me that you've shared
your personal connection to why you did the
thing right. And so I think audiences are
really going to resonate with that, because
there's going to have been a time when they
experienced something where it's like, well,
I could just solve this problem myself
because I had xyz happen to me, right?
Like, let me just find the solution.
So I think they'll really resonate.
I also love, I can see from all the stories
that you've shared, you are the type of
person that Is not.
You're not only going to just figure out the
solution and create the solution on your
own, but you're also going to partner with
the right people, right?
Because you partnered with the musician,
you've partnered with the the culinary
expert, you've partnered with people and
then taken that and now building upon it to
get to that next level.
But based on your personal story.
So that is fantastic.
So I think all of these things make for
incredible talks.
So I'd love to see that you're you're giving
talks. And so what is what is your speaking
been like since your time in the Thought
Leader Academy. Have you been speaking a lot
like on what topics.
What has that? How has that gone?
Michelle Massman:
You know, it's been great actually.
I have done more speaking, and I've just
recently spoke at a women's entrepreneurship
conference that I just loved.
And so I'm, I'm making more time in my
schedule to do speaking.
That has been an issue for a while, so I'm
actually making more time to do that.
And I'm also really enjoying going out and
speaking with Sean, my business partner in
the music industry, because we've also been
talking about partnership.
And as you mentioned, yes, partnership is
huge to me. Finding the right people to
connect with and to bring into your world is
so crucial to our success, no matter what
you do. And so I feel like when I found
Sean, when we found each other, it was
kindred spirits. And we've worked well
together for 20 years now.
That's not to say that it's, you know, all
Disney with like, you know, the happy little
animals. Um, you know, we've had our
problems too and figured out how to deal
with them. And so I really enjoy speaking
with him as well about business partnerships
and whether it's a formal partnership like
ours or it's the people you're connecting
with, how do you maintain those
relationships and how do you work through
those things? Because that's really
important. And now that we're speaking about
that, we have a lot of people coming to us
after our presentation saying that was
helpful. I've been having problems with my
business partner.
We've had some stumbling blocks.
Now I think I have a better idea of how to
make this work.
Diane Diaz:
Yes. Well that's great.
So when you. So to our audience and
Michelle's example, when you're getting
feedback from your audience saying, oh my
gosh, that was so helpful.
Oh my gosh, I've been dealing with the same
thing. Thank you for speaking on this topic.
I now I have some solutions.
Now you know that your message is resonating
and that means get out there and start
giving that message more to more groups of
people, because it's definitely hitting a
hot button issue that people care about.
But you can't get that feedback until you
put the talk out there.
Right? And start telling those stories and
start getting the feedback from the audience
so that you can know how it's landing.
So I love that.
I also would say to anybody in the audience
of this podcast, listening, thinking that
you necessarily have to just speak on your
own. You don't. Obviously, you could partner
up with someone and then turn that into a
talk that you then bring that message and
stories from both of you that can resonate
with the audience. So maybe that would help
anybody who's struggling with sort of that
fear of public speaking is to partner up
with someone. Obviously, they have to be a
good fit in some sort of a, you know, the
ideas have to kind of mesh together.
But I think that that could help some people
get over that hump of the speaking.
Right. The fear of speaking.
Michelle Massman:
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think and and it's nice to have somebody
to play off of when you're, you know, when
you're doing that. And so I definitely
encourage people to do that.
And I've also partnered on presentations
with other people, especially when we're
doing virtual presentations now.
It's great to be able to pull a couple of
other people in and be able to play off each
other while you're doing that.
So I absolutely agree.
Diane Diaz:
Yes. And Michelle, how how tell me a little
bit about like the story, the stories that
you share in your talks.
Are they personal?
Like what what sort of form do they take.
What is the storytelling like when you're
giving these talks, you know, newer ones or
ones that you've given in the past.
How how much of your story do you share?
Michelle Massman:
Uh, I would say a lot.
I like I.
Diane Diaz:
Said, I want to hear.
Michelle Massman:
I have become more and more vulnerable over
the years, more willing to talk about
things. And so, just to give you an idea, as
I mentioned before in the music group, when
Sean and I talk to people, we talk about
going through the embezzlement issue with
with his former partner in the music group,
and it was a three year trial.
I mean, it was it was insane.
So so we talk about all the different things
that happened in that and we answer people's
questions. For myself, I talk I definitely
give the example of three years being into
my business and going through massive
anxiety attacks, panic attacks, depression.
And this was back in the early 90s when
people didn't talk about that.
And so I share about that.
I share about the fact that I shared about
that back then in a newspaper article, uh,
that a friend was writing.
And because I was made the front page of the
paper talking about anxiety when it wasn't a
normal topic.
Um, I had one of the the strangest things in
my life happen to me because I had a woman
who was a sponsor for one of our events, and
she left a voicemail for me one day, but she
didn't hang up the phone when she was done
with her message. And I got to listen to the
next five minutes of her conversation with
the person in her office.
And it was all about me.
It was all about what I had said about going
through depression and anxiety, and how she
thought that was going to hurt my business
and how, I mean, it was very, very negative.
It was it was brutal.
And so I talk about that experience and what
I did about it and how what the lessons I
learned. And it's interesting because as
kind of an aside, I've also discovered in
talking to people who are booking speakers
and when they're thinking about booking me,
I start to tell them the beginning of one of
the stories that I use in my presentation,
but I stop and don't tell them the end and
say, yeah, so I, I talk about the rest of
this and how it turned out in my
presentation. You'd be surprised how many of
those people have said, if I book you, will
you tell me the end of the story?
Diane Diaz:
They really want to know, like, how did this
come? How did it end?
What happened? Yeah.
No, I remember that story.
And, you know, that's the type of thing that
you're right. I mean, back in that time, we
didn't talk about anxiety or mental health
issues. We just did not talk about those
things. So sharing it is very vulnerable.
But whatever happened with her not hanging
up the phone and you hearing that, that's
terrible. But the audience that hears that
story, I think even if they don't say it out
loud inside, they're thinking, oh gosh,
thank God I'm not the only person struggling
with this, right? Thank God I'm not the only
person who, because I'm sure so many
business owners are sitting at home at some
point in their business ownership feeling
scared, you know, not heard.
They can't say anything to anybody.
They're panicked. They're anxious, they
don't. They don't know where to turn.
And so you're sort of giving permission by
sharing that story to them, to then feel
that way and feel like you're not alone and
you're not crazy. Right? This is normal and
it's okay. So you're you're sort of helping
so many people by sharing that story.
Michelle Massman:
Well, and, and it's part of what I want to do
when I'm talking to people, especially when
I'm talking to entrepreneurs, when I'm
talking to women, like I said, who are in
their 40s, 50s kind of unsure or thinking
about what they want to do next or, or they
know what they want to do next and they're
just trying to, you know, kind of get the
confidence to take the leap.
And I, I want to be there to support those
people, and I want them to feel like they're
not alone, because if we feel like we've got
support, we're much more likely to take
action. And that's what I'm all about.
I want people to take action, and I want to
try to support them. And so I do love it
when they come up to me afterward and say,
oh my gosh, I for a while I thought I was
the only person feeling that way.
And it might be that I'm the first person
that they feel comfortable saying that out
loud to, because we don't know each other.
We're not friends.
But I've become friends with a lot of those
people, and I've worked with a lot of them,
and that just makes me so happy.
Diane Diaz:
Oh, I'm sure you know.
And I say this to clients and I've said this
to groups as well.
Is that as scared as you might be to share a
vulnerable story, think about what happens
by not telling that story and how other
people stay stuck, stay scared, you know,
maybe. And especially women, right?
Play small because it's not okay to feel
that way. It's not that's not very business
like or whatever we say about that.
So when we don't tell our personal stories,
we're actually we're actually sort of
holding back and not helping the whatever it
is that we want to champion the cause or the
issue or the problem or this whatever, we
aren't helping. Right.
And so I think we're actually doing a
disservice when we hold that stuff back,
because other people then can't sort of get
something to kind of latch onto and say, oh,
thank goodness, not just me or oh, now I
have the answer to that question that I had
because she shared her story.
Right. So I think we actually we actually
sort of have collective struggle when we all
stay closed up and don't share our stories,
whereas if we open up, we can all
collectively work through things.
And so it's so beneficial and it can be
vulnerable. So I you know, Carol talks about
that idea of the vulnerability hangover
where you share something.
Then the next day you're like, oh, should I
have shared that much? Maybe that was too
much. But I really think and as she says,
just like a real hangover, it will pass,
right? That feeling will pass.
But I think there really is so much, uh,
healing and growth in us sharing our
stories. And to anyone listening, if you
have an idea for a talk or if you're working
on a talk or and you're wondering, I don't
really want to share my story.
Or should my story be part of that?
Please, please, please consider being
vulnerable and sharing that story because
you have no idea the amount of impact that
that's going to have. And I will tell you,
it is tremendous for sure.
Michelle Massman:
And I think that the other thing that's
really important for me, and I think for
others, is that one of the things that takes
anxiety and depression and all of those
kinds of negative things away, the thing
that destroys those things is when you tell
your story because I, you know, and I grew
up in a way where I didn't I didn't tell my
personal, vulnerable stories, my most
intimate feelings.
I did not do that.
And when I got older and was dealing with
the depression and anxiety, I learned that
the more I shared my story, the more I said
out loud how I felt, the less that the
anxiety and things like that had any power.
And I think that that is one of the things
that I think is super important about us
telling our stories as well, is that it
helps ourselves.
I mean, the more I tell my stories and I'm
vulnerable, the more it kind of reconnects
me with who I am and what's important to me
and what's not important to me.
And I think that that's another benefit to
telling our stories.
So I definitely also encourage people to tell
their stories, and especially now in a time
frame where it feels like our society is
very polarized.
And I know a lot of people who feel like
they're even afraid to talk about how they
feel because of how people are going to
perceive them.
And I'm what I always tell people is think
about the story, think about how you feel
about something, and decide which layer it's
okay to share when, because there might be a
layer to that story that you do only tell to
your very best friends and the people that
you trust. But as you kind of back it out,
there are layers of that story that you can
tell to anybody in the grocery store.
And it's okay.
And that's good for us to be able to
identify. And that's another thing I think
that's great about the Thought Leadership
Academy is that it helps you kind of look at
not only how to tell your story, but how to
decide what part of your story you're
telling.
Diane Diaz:
Oh, that's such a great point, Michelle.
It's such a good point because you're so
right. It's that idea of, as Carol says,
it's in service to the audience, right?
So what portion of that story is going to
help the audience doesn't have to be every
single detail, right? So knowing what
portions of it will help the audience and
will sort of move the needle for them and
when you're comfortable to do it.
So it's such a great point.
So thank you for sharing that.
And thank you for being vulnerable and
sharing your stories here today.
I appreciate that and modeling what we're
talking about. Right.
Um, but tell the audience what is next for
you on your speaking journey.
Anything coming up exciting?
Michelle Massman:
Oh, actually. A few things I'm already
looking at speaking at a number of women's
entrepreneur conferences next year, I'd love
to do even more. I have a virtual
presentation tomorrow that I'm doing for a
group of entrepreneurs in North Dakota on my
From Stuck to Unstoppable workshop, and I
love doing that.
Whether I do it one on one with people or
I'm doing it in small groups.
Um, it's just it's so gratifying to see
people really see where they're going with
that. So I'm I'm excited to do more speaking
with Sean. And so we're really pushing that
out there as much as possible.
Diane Diaz:
Oh that's so fun. I'd love to hear that.
Good good good. Yeah. And I hope you speak
at lots and lots of women's things and
inspire others to do what you've done, which
is just say yes to things, tell their story,
get their message out there.
So yay for that.
So tell our audience where can they connect
with you online?
Is there a website or you're on certain
social media?
Michelle Massman:
Yeah, absolutely.
My website is my name.
It's Michelle massman.com.
And if you want to learn more about from
Stuck to Unstoppable it's Michelle.
Michel masson.com/unstoppable.
And so it's pretty easy.
Um I love talking to people.
So if anybody's interested, they can also
just email me directly at Michelle.
Michelle.com and I get back to everybody.
So I just hope that the audience really has
found something beneficial in our
conversation. And I would be happy to chat.
Diane Diaz:
Oh well, thank you so much, Michelle, and
thank you for coming on the podcast.
I truly appreciate it.
And if you are listening to this podcast and
you also want to work on digging deeper into
your message, refining it, identifying those
stories that you can share and then creating
a talk, we can help you with that.
So you can visit our website and check out
the Thought Leader Academy as speaking your
brand.com/academy that's speaking your
brand.com/academy. Until next time.
Thanks for listening.