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Motion Hatch is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by veteran motion designer Hayley Akins, discussing the business side of animation and motion design that so many creatives struggle with.
Offering quality practical advice and insight for freelance, full-time or aspiring animators, illustrators and motion designers, hear from a wide range of voices within the industry, including how leading animators started out, tips on managing your business and career advice.
For more info on how to take control of your motion graphics career and to join our community of amazing, talented designers, head over to http://motionhatch.com.
Hayley: The past two years have been actually really tough for a lot of freelancers. Where I think the gap currently is, is we don't know how to sell motion design to people who don't know what motion design is.
Ashleigh: I remember like being a motion designer was niche enough, like when I started freelancing, that's just not the case anymore.
Hayley: Everyone thinks that you need to post your work all the time. You do not need to do that. Yes, LinkedIn is still the best platform, I think. But it is changing. If you're like, I need work right now, the best way to get more work right now and quickly is to actually So welcome everyone to this very special episode of the Motion Hatch podcast.
We are back with part two of season two of the Motion Hatch podcast. This episode was actually filmed live at the Barbican Centre in London for the InMotion Festival. My lovely friend Ashley Robertson hosted this live podcast with me called Making Money in the Ever Changing [00:01:00] Landscape of Motion Design and Animation.
She asked me about the best ways to get clients right now, whether you're just starting out or you're already an established freelancer. Plus, I shared the strategy I teach my students for using LinkedIn to get in front of their ideal clients. So let's jump straight in and I'll hand you over to Ashley to introduce herself.
Ashleigh: My name is Ashley Robertson, um, I'm a freelance motion designer, um, I have been for three years now. I. I live and work in Manchester, although I do have a Scottish accent because it's originally Scottish. So apologies for those sitting here live, I don't come with subtitles, but I will try and speak clearly for you.
So yeah, I guess we'll just jump right into it. If there are people in the audience here who are maybe thinking about going freelance or just starting out and want to get a job, what is, like, some things that you can do right now to make that as successful as you can? I always think
Hayley: about, like, laying the groundwork first, right?
So, often, even people who've been freelancing for a long [00:02:00] time, I'll go onto their websites, And then it won't say clearly like how to contact them and I'm like, that's insane. So if you think about it, like if you're, you know, if you're a work in motion design, an hour on anime or go to your website, does it say somewhere contact me really clearly?
Because that's what you need to be doing. Think about in this way, like there's so many motion designers out there now, you just need to be making it easier for the producers, the clients to like get your email and reach out and say, Hey, I want to work with you. So I just say like, It sounds really basic, but just get those groundwork things done, like have a good portfolio, have a decent looking website, make sure it's clear your email, how to contact you, all that kind of stuff.
Go on LinkedIn, make a good profile, you know, ideally you would brand yourself kind of Coherently across the board, think about like the banner and have a nice headshot, you know, and it sounds like basic stuff. But if you kind of go through and look at all of your stuff, you're probably going to be missing a couple of these things.
And like a little tip for [00:03:00] you as well is actually to put your email in the about section. Section on your LinkedIn profile too, because I think that's often missed really. So I think I would start there and then, you know, obviously if you're not already freelance and you're thinking about going freelance, think about, do I have a runway, you know, do I have enough money in the bank so that maybe if I don't get work straight away, I can, you know, afford to kind of do that for a while.
Because I think You know, unfortunately, sometimes it takes a little bit of time, and I'm sure we're going to go into this later, so I'm not going to talk too much about it now, but the past two years have been actually really tough for a lot of freelancers, and you know, I'm sure you're aware of that as well, so I think it's just like making sure you have these key things in place before you do that, and then I think the last thing I would think about is how can I use my existing network, and you know, you might think, well, I'm just starting out, I don't really have a network, but everyone knows And you might not even be in the industry, but think about, you know, who do I know already who perhaps [00:04:00] might know someone else who could hire me, or how can I be more part of the community?
So I think if you're starting out some of those kinds of things. Really good.
Ashleigh: You have a motion hatch YouTube as well. And you actually did a really interesting series on, you know, your reviewing people's portfolios. So I am gonna plug that because there's a really good series. So if you're beginning, you're like, I don't know what my website should look like.
Um, Haley does a very good series on it and. Critiques real people's portfolios. So we've covered, I guess, the people who maybe want to go freelance. And but what if there's, as people out here who are already freelancer, even some studio owners that are in, what can they do to, you know, get more clients just now?
Because like we briefly touched on, the past two years has been really hard, even speaking for myself, like getting clients, um, people just want more for their money. Budgets are being squeezed. What can people do just now to, you know, help get the more clients if they're already freelance? There's kind of two ways
Hayley: you can go about this.
Like, if you're [00:05:00] like, I need work right now, the best way to get more work right now and quickly is to actually go to the people that you've worked with already. There's probably people that you've forgotten about, right? So if we think about, um, you know, using like a CRM, like a client relationship manager, um, something like, you know, folk or hubs.
Or even a spreadsheet but make sure it's structured enough so that you know, okay, these are my past clients These are the people that i've maybe had a conversation with but I haven't actually worked with them yet And then thinking about all of the people who maybe you want to work with So you want to have all the past clients in there and it sounds really obvious, but I meet people every day and I say, do you have a CRM?
Is it structured? Are you actively like pushing people through that every week? I would like maybe put an hour aside or something like that and say on a Tuesday at 8 AM, I'm I'm going to go into my CRM and I'm going to contact these past clients that I haven't spoke to for like three months, you know, and just say, Hey, and like, stay [00:06:00] top of mind thinking about those people and just making sure that you are keeping in touch with them.
That's like one on one. Right. And then like, yeah, beyond that, I think we can also just think about, okay, how are we actually warming up people and warming up those relationships before we like cold email them as well? Cause I think one of the issues that I've seen is. A lot of freelancers and, you know, even people at studios, like emailing loads and loads of people, but then actually like warming them up.
So I think it's relevant to talk about this here, but basically, um, this is what I call the freelance funnel framework, right? As this is audio only, I'm going to jump in here and give you a better description of the graphics so that you can visualize what I'm talking about. So imagine a funnel shape with the widest.
section at the top and the smallest section at the bottom. The funnel is split into four sections horizontally. At the top of the funnel, the largest section is awareness. These are all the people who don't know about you yet. Then the next section [00:07:00] down is attraction. These are all the people who are aware of you that you're trying to warm up.
And the next section down from that is action. Action. This is where we're taking action to get your clients to work with you. And then the final smallest section at the bottom is advocacy. This is where your current and past clients are and where you should be trying to make them advocates or fans of yours.
So this funnel is the framework that I created for my course client quest. If you would like to get the free worksheet of the freelance funnel framework, just go to motionhatch. com forward slash in motion.
Ashleigh: Following on from, I guess, what we've just spoke about when we've touched on it briefly is. Social media is a massive part of being a freelancer.
And, you know, I do feel the pressure of constantly feeling like I need to be online posting, building that personal brand, which I absolutely hate that word, but you'd, I am selling like myself essentially, you know? Um, so. For the people who maybe, like, don't post as much on social media or find it really overwhelming, what can they [00:08:00] do, you know, what would your advice be to them if they wanted to, like, start out and using that as a way to start, like, warming up clients like we just spoke about?
What,
Hayley: what I find the problem is with social is, you know, maybe people going on LinkedIn and stuff like that, and they're thinking, okay, I'm just, I, one. Everyone thinks that you need to post your work all the time, you do not need to do that. And you probably shouldn't be because what that kind of looks like is like you're just shouting about yourself, right?
You know, I'm sure you have all have wonderful work, but like, if you're not engaging other people and you're not actually like, You know, helping them and having conversations with them, they're probably going to be like, Oh, this person, they just talk about themselves all the time. You know, it's like a social platform.
It kind of makes sense, but we don't think about it that way. So what you can do with this as well, with the freelance funnel framework is think about, okay, can I do an awareness post? And why I would think about an awareness post would be is, you know, even just thinking about like talking about a topic in the industry, like introducing yourself.
I think we were talking about. [00:09:00] Before what we've seen work really well is like people just reintroducing themselves on LinkedIn. I think it's like put a smiley picture of your face, you know, like it sounds kind of lame, but it works so well. And just say, Hey, this is me. Um, I, I, maybe you've never posted on LinkedIn.
I don't know, you know, but maybe you're like, I haven't posted in a while. You know, this is who I am. This is what I like. This is the stuff I even like outside of work, you know, be relatable and then like welcome people to kind of talk to you in the comments and say, Hey. I want to hear about you too, because I think that's what is kind of missing, you know, when we're sort of like, Hey, this is me, I'm available all the time.
And it's sort of a little bit off putting. And I think if we do more of these awareness and also attraction type posts, and we kind of have more of a strategy that really helps you to attract more clients to you, but then also thinking about how you can warm those potential clients up and then maybe email them later.
So, you know, If we're talking about like an attraction type post, I would think of that [00:10:00] more as like, um, case studies behind the scenes, like that kind of stuff. Like, yes, you're showing your work and you're talking about that, but you're like, here's my process. This is how I work, you know, and people really like that.
I dunno, you know, if anyone's posted, like here's some behind the scenes of work, like it usually gets a lot of traction, you know, people enjoy that. And then action is usually what everybody is kind of doing anyway. Which is the kind of like, Hey, work with me. Hey, I'm available here, here, here's my website, you know?
And I think you can do that and it should be part of your strategy, but it shouldn't be a whole strategy. If you want to do an advocacy type post that could be like a client testimonial or something like that, like showing that you're a professional. And I just think this is why I love this kind of structure in this framework.
Because it makes a lot of sense when you think about it because you're not, and it gives you kind of ideas as well. And, and we also have a social media guide. Um, it's got 52 posts in there from different motion designers, examples. And what you can post, go to motionhatch. com forward [00:11:00] slash emotion. You can get a free social media guide there.
And it's essentially like a content calendar. But it has, like, pre filled in examples of what you could post. And we also say, like, this is an awareness post, this is an attraction post. So hopefully that is helpful to you as well.
Ashleigh: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think something that me personally, I find, um, is that Posting about yourself.
I think people maybe do take it really serious and or maybe like a bit scared and nervous because you're putting yourself out there online and it's not, you know, like your personal like Facebook where your mom's commenting on your run or whatever. Like it's people think like, oh, I shouldn't post about myself.
post that kind of stuff because it's not professional. And I think it's actually the opposite. People hire people. So if you want to get more clients, people want to know about you and know that you're not a d I don't know if I'm allowed to swear, you can edit that out. But like, it's the absolute truth.
And like, Even on LinkedIn for myself, I'll tell people that I just ran a half marathon [00:12:00] in two hours. Like, it's one, I'm proud of it, so I want to clout for that. But two, if I'm, you know, meeting people at events, it gives me something to talk about. Or if I need to warm them up and I know that they do a run and I want to cold email them and be like, you know, we run.
Do you want to hire me? You know, it's stuff like that. And so for me, kind of personally, I love LinkedIn for that. I think people would think LinkedIn is like, You know, it needs to be this really serious thing. Um, and I don't know, like, from your perspective and the, the freelancers and the motion designers and animators that you speak to, do you think there's a platform that they prefer versus like LinkedIn versus Twitter or X or Instagram for getting more clients?
Hayley: Yeah,
Ashleigh: well, I think.
Hayley: It's a really good question. So like, it definitely used to be more focused on Instagram, but then obviously we know like the problem is what happens with social media platforms after a while is they want to make money, right? So what they do to begin with is they give you a lot of organic reach, which means they push your [00:13:00] content out to lots more people.
And then as they want to make more money, they start, they want you to pay for ads, right? So they kind of Make that not happen as much. Right. And then I think with LinkedIn, what was really good is they were like, we really need content. You know, we need this to not be like the job CB type platform. Maybe you will still think that's like that.
But so they were kind of pushing people's posts out. I feel like I've been banging on about LinkedIn for so long and then like it seemed like loads of motion designers and animators came over there and then, and then they were like, Oh, I can just do a post and it goes out to so many people and like people are getting jobs left, right and center.
And then I think kind of what happened more recently is LinkedIn is kind of. You know, change your algorithm. It happens all the time. I'm not claiming that I'm a LinkedIn expert, but I look at, you know, what's happening, what works, what doesn't work. I listen to people who are, you know, better LinkedIn than me.
And, um, I, what kind of happened was, [00:14:00] is now if you post about motion design, it's going to show it to motion designers. So that, or like animation, you know, and that kind of puts us in a tricky position because it means that, Okay, before I was posting about motion design and talking about it, and it would show it to potential clients, right?
But now I think it's getting tougher, and because they want to, you know, they're tweaking their algorithm so that they're like, Ooh, you're posting about motion design, who's going to be interested in that motion design? It's like, makes sense, yeah. It's a bit of an echo chamber. Yeah, exactly. So then you kind of get lots of motion designers following, which obviously is good for work too.
I mean, you know, um, when I was working as a freelance motion designer too, I made tons of friends on Twitter and that really helped me to get work. So that can work as well. But, Now I think because obviously there's more motion designers in the industry, it's getting harder to get jobs, it's not as effective.
So I think now we need to think about, yes, LinkedIn is still the best platform, I think, but it is changing. So it's trying to think about, [00:15:00] well, maybe how could I be a little bit more. niche, you know, how, how can I talk to my particular ideal clients and how can I kind of engage them more on the platform rather than the kind of wider community, if that makes sense?
Ashleigh: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We have spoken about, you know, what you can do if you're maybe wanting to get into freelance, what you can do if you're already freelance or a studio owner to get more clients. We did spend a big chunk speaking about social media there because it's kind of the, kind of the easiest way.
Cause, You're just kind of speaking to the most amount of people, but obviously you speak to freelancers and motion designers daily with your courses and stuff like that. So what do you see working like right now? Is there anything that you're like, this is like a kind of surefire way? Yeah, it's
Hayley: really tricky.
Like we all know. Okay. The past, like, I'd say a couple of years has been so tricky, like, I think what kind of happened is, you know, with COVID, obviously people couldn't film, so then everyone was like, sweet, let's all, like, make [00:16:00] animation, and that was really good for us, right? And then I think a lot of new people came into the market too, and then now I think we're kind of seeing a bit of correction on that.
Obviously, I'm like not an economist. I don't comment, claim to be, but like that's kind of what I've heard from everyone and that sort of seems like what's happening. So it is, you know, it is harder. There's less work around. There's more people who want that work. Like, I understand that, but I think also I'm kind of optimistic.
And I'm a little bit excited because also there's so many screens around now, right? I think it's just gonna keep increasing as well. Like everything is moving every Every person all the companies want stuff to move on every social media platform things like that And I think that's like a big opportunity for us where I think the gap currently is Is we don't know how to sell motion design Like to people who don't know what motion design is.
Ashleigh: Absolutely I've had many a conversation with people in my Family trying to explain what I do, [00:17:00] kind of like Disney, but not really because it's typography. So
Hayley: I think it's up to us really to think about, you know, how do we start to talk about what we do and how do we close that like communication gap with, with the clients.
And so if you think about this, there's obviously the studios and the ad agencies, you know, if you're a freelancer and you're thinking about. Okay, they understand that they need a motion designer, right? They've got a problem. They've got to serve some clients They're like we need a motion designer. So they're they're really like solution aware, right?
But then there's this whole huge group of people in the world who have a problem That motion design and animation could solve but they they don't know That that's the tool that can help them solve it. Right. So I think it's a big opportunity for us, but I think it's obviously difficult. And, and the way that I'm seeing people tackle it is really talking more about the problems that their clients have.
And I think we have to think about [00:18:00] if you want to do that, like be more niche, you know, and thinking about, okay, well, what problems does motion design solve? And, and how can I really be like the one person? Who, like, solves that particular thing for this particular type of client or something like that.
Ashleigh: Yeah, I think it's a lot about, I guess, yeah, finding your niche, and I know you love to speak about this, so I would, I guess, like, let's just clarify, like, what your interpretation of, like, niching down is. Yeah, so I think
Hayley: there's, I mean, we've got another three hours, no I'm joking. Um, I think there's different ways you can do it, right?
So maybe like, I think what people usually think is like, Oh, would I be the motion design for Doctors? I don't know why that always comes up. It's the first one that comes in my head, but obviously there's other ways too, right? So you could think about niche and down like you could do a particular style, you know And that's obviously like something we're familiar with also thinking about like skills and stuff like that I think the skills one is getting a little bit trickier to stand out because [00:19:00] Obviously as tools become more accessible and all of that kind of stuff Um, but I think you know still people are doing it And then, um, also I think what is really interesting to me is kind of, yeah, niching down more into like a product, you know?
So one of my students that I worked with, um, he basically started a company around motion brand guidelines, right? I think there's now a couple more people doing that, but he was like, I really want to work with this. And it makes sense, right? Because there's so many companies in the world who have brand guidelines, right?
Most, I think most companies do, and they understand that it's important, but motion brand guidelines is kind of a new thing. So he started talking about that more and more on LinkedIn and like talking about the problem. And like gradually over time, he was able to stop doing all the other types of things.
client work that he was doing and really transition just to do motion brain guidelines full time. And I think that's just really great and really fascinating because now he's like an expert in that kind of area. And I [00:20:00] feel like that's really what I'm seeing kind of come up more. And I feel like we'll, more and more people will do that type of thing in the future.
Ashleigh: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I just, I do, I wanted to clarify that because I think people do think mission down, like, I suddenly now have to be the animator for doctors or whatever like that, but I think um, you know, like if there is something that you want to niche down in and there's something that you're like, I love, absolutely love doing this type of work, like just start telling people.
I remember like being a motion designer was niche enough, like when I started freelancing, everybody was like, oh my god, like there's so little freelance motion designers, but as we've spoken about, like that's just not the case anymore. Um, so you kind of have to like, I guess, figure out what you want. And then that'll get you more work, basically.
So I don't know if you wanna close it or if you wanna open up, maybe we have time for an audience question. Uh, yeah,
Hayley: I mean, we could do an audience question. Does anyone have a question? I, yeah, one, go for it.
Audience Member: Social media, like LinkedIn is obvious, also plays a big part. Would you like contact potential clients, et cetera, [00:21:00] but would you say it's.
It's quite important to maybe go to like, like expos and conferences in different industries. The way you can actually physically meet people if they're in a certain industry that you're interested in. So if you're interested in producing motion designs for like maybe fashion or toys or food, would you say that that's probably a good way to maybe like meet clients as well like in person?
Hayley: Yeah. I think, um, what I think about events and meeting in person and like, I'm so pleased we can do that again, um, is I think it's a fast way to build trust. Um, obviously online, it's hard. People, you know, are wary about people and it's easy to ignore an email. Right. So I think you're completely right about that.
What I would be thinking about is, yeah, can I go to those places where my kind of ideal client is hanging out? It's quite hard to find out where those things are. So you sort of have to do like mini experiments and that's kind of what I do with my students a lot, who take my courses, we think about like, okay, you want this type of client, let's do some research.[00:22:00]
Try and figure out like where they are and you kind of want to like meet them where they are and where they're hanging out and kind of, you know, with their peers and stuff like that. So I met a couple of people, um, you know, this week here who were like, they're like copywriters and they're sound people.
And I'm like, these people are smart. They're coming where all the people are doing animation, motion design and things like that. And they're like, Hey, I can help you, you know? So that's like an example of someone doing that. Like a conference like this. And I think that's like really good. So thanks for asking that question because it's really important to, you know, talk about that as well.
And I, I think, you know, why I'm such a fan of LinkedIn is because we are working all remotely. And it is kind of hard sometimes to come to events like this. And obviously it's great that we're all here, but we can't do it every day. So it's kind of like, how do we stay top of mind? In between, you know, what I think is really important is just thinking about how you market yourself as like planting mini seeds all the time.
Right. And what I mean by that [00:23:00] is just like consistently doing little things like coming to this event, like being consistent, like on social. And that doesn't mean posting a daily every day. That means like, Hey, can I just post like once a week on LinkedIn? And even if like, Ashley, you're like, Hey, I just did a run.
Like, does anyone else like running? You know, like people like that kind of stuff, but just like. Try and plant these little seeds for opportunity, because sometimes it takes a while for them to grow and for a project to come around, right? So we should just always think about how can we do that, and I think the best way to do that is how can I build systems and processes around that, right?
So really thinking about like, okay, you know, I have my CRM system. That's like my outbound marketing system. Then I have my content calendar. That's like my social media system and it just makes it more sustainable. And I think that's what I'm really passionate about with like teaching people is just like, how can we make.
Like, doing the business stuff that maybe you all aren't as excited about. Really sustainable and really easy. Thank you so much [00:24:00] for listening to this live recording of the Motion Hatch podcast. You can go to motionhatch. com forward slash inmotion to get my free social media guide and freelance funnel framework worksheet.
You can also check out Ashley Robertson's work at ashleyrobertson. com. Com and you can find all the links mentioned in the show notes. If you found this episode helpful, then please do consider leaving us a rating and review wherever you get your podcasts from. You can go to motionhatch. com forward slash rate to rate us over there.
Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. I appreciate you. See ya.