Kelowna Talks | Episode 14: A conversation with Mayor Colin Basran

As Mayor Basran oversees one of the fastest growing cities in the country, we wanted to hear from you: If you could ask Kelowna Mayor Colin Basran anything you've ever wanted to know, what would you ask? The response was remarkable, with nearly 150 questions posed to the Mayor. So, you asked and he answered your questions around some of the bigger issues that our city faces. In this week's episode, Mayor Basran talks to host Bob Evans about housing, housing affordability, public safety and some of the social issues that every municipality struggles with. Plus, you’ll hear how Mayor Basran envisions our city in 20 years.

Show Notes

What is Kelowna Talks?

Welcome to Kelowna Talks, a podcast presented by the City of Kelowna that explores the "why" behind the decisions that shape your city. Tune in for weekly episodes with host, Bob Evans, Partnerships Office Director with the City of Kelowna, as he welcomes guest subject matter experts to explain the processes and decisions that influence the lives of the citizens.

Colin 00:00
Kelowna as evidenced by the 300 + housing units and the investment that BC housing has made in our community has done a very good job of advocating and building relationships.

Zoe 00:12
Welcome to Kelowna Talks, where we explore the why behind the decisions that shape your city. Together, we open the curtain and dig deep into current issues, plans and policies that come out of City Hall. Thanks for joining us as we talk about Kelowna, and the topics that matter to you.

Bob 00:37
Hi, everyone, I'm Bob Evans, partnership director at the city of Kelowna and host of our Kelowna talks podcast, I acknowledge that our community is located on the traditional ancestral unceded territory of the Syilx, Okanagan people. Well, a week or so ago, we asked the public if they could ask Mayor Basran anything they ever wanted to ask him. And guess what? The response was amazing. And as I said last time, it's it was overwhelming with over 150 questions and comments covering a really wide range of issues from affordable housing, infrastructure, crime, homelessness, traffic high rises, the environment, you get it. Also, in terms of last time, we addressed infrastructure and the growth of the city. And so we're have a couple of different topics this time and again, welcome back, Mayor Basran to part two of our podcast.

Colin 01:26
Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it.

Bob 01:29
Okay, so we're gonna jump right in. We talked about what you like to do when you're when you're not mayor. And I guess I think we've talked about the fact that you're never not mayor, but you've got lots going on with your family. So hopefully, in the last week or so you've done more kid activities. In our last episode, we talked about the incredible growth that our cities experiencing at the moment, we're seeing a lot of new high rises downtown new neighbourhoods, evolving, infill three, four storey apartments, we've got the Tolko lands in an exciting planning process, and there's a lot going on. But growth also comes with issues. I am not going to sugarcoat it here, there are serious social issues in our city, how do all these new homes being built to address affordability, particularly for middle and lower income people. We heard from people suggesting that many of these new high rise buildings are housing, yes, but they're still unattainable for most folks. It is not within Council's mandate to build housing as my understanding. The council is advocating that the provincial and federal governments for assistance on the housing crisis and rapidly increasing cost of living. I'll use that as the intro to you know, I guess help us understand as listeners where we sit with this crisis. Yeah,

Colin 02:36
Yeah, so that's a lot. And it's a lot for most municipalities. I think I would start by saying that this isn't, these are not Kelowna only issues. And it's one of the reasons why several of the mayors in British Columbia have banded together under the banner of the BC Urban Mayors Caucus, of which I helped lead to advocate for help from the provincial and federal government for some of these issues. But let's just step back and just talk about Kelowna right now. And what I would say is, this is, while those issues are serious, and our Council's top priority, we have really comprehensive plans in place to deal with each of the things that you've talked about. And so while I appreciate that, there's a lot of concern, I am comforted by the fact that we have been leaders, not only provincially, but nationally in regards to how we're addressing some of these issues with our homelessness strategy, with our community safety plan, and with some of the really great advocacy work that's taking place being led by the City of Kelowna. So I actually just recently returned from something called the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, which is where mayors and city councillors from across the country meet once a year to discuss issues of mutual concern. And I can tell you that the City of Kelowna was sought out by mayors and councillors from a number of different municipalities, because word has gotten out about our plans to address these issues where we've already had some successes. So let's talk about the homelessness file. So through our homeless, a strategy called Journey Home, which I know has not been smooth, it has had some complications or hiccups, but let's just look overall at what Journey Home has done. The biggest thing that Journey Home has done has gotten over 300 people either homeless or on the verge of being homeless housed. And we've also just renewed if you will, our our Journey Home strategy in that it calls for, you know, hundreds more supportive or complex care housing units to get people off of our streets. So what I can say is that there is great advocacy work taking place because I want to be clear here, the City of Kelowna, and our taxpayers do not pay for or provide housing. And that is not something most municipalities do in in the province of British Columbia, housing is a mandate of the provincial government. So what can we do then, to get the province to the table, and Kelowna, as evidenced by the 300 Plus housing units, and the investment that BC Housing has made in our community has done a very good job of advocating and building relationships with the Minister of Housing, the Minister of Mental Health and addictions. But I do want to clear up one thing, because we've gotten hundreds of people housed, but the average resident will say, but it's not making a difference. In fact, it's getting worse, right. And so here's why Bob, one of the key things that we are now advocating for is something called complex care housing. Because in the investments the province has made, into supportive housing in our community, which in some cases, the City of Kelowna has provided land for the health supports for people to deal with that their underlying mental health and addiction issues, has not been as strong as needed to really get those with the most complex issues, to stay housed. And so this, again, is happening in municipalities right across the province, where those with the deepest affliction of mental health and addiction issues remain on our streets. So we mayors have banded together to say to the provincial government, something needs to be done for what's called complex care housing. And so I'm proud to say that as a result of the advocacy I have helped lead, the provincial government in its most recent budget, set aside $164 million for complex care, housing, in support of which some of that will be provided here in Kelowna. Now, it's not going to get everybody housed yet, but they have promised continued investment in complex care housing, of which we need the support of the Interior Health Authority, as well as the provincial government. So from a homeless standpoint, there is a lot of great work happening behind the scenes, but it's not going to get fixed overnight. And these mental health and addiction issues have been building over decades. And I can say that there's been some great work done and will continue to be and Kelowna leads the country in terms of some of this work.

Bob 07:28
Yeah, that's comforting to hear. And, you know, I know that there's a lot going on and the word complex, complex care and just complex needs, and we know that's a complex issue? And then how many times can you say complex on one sentence, I guess, but it's, you know, it's something that the city is putting a lot of time and resources in addressing, and again, it doesn't go away. But if you didn't, similar to your thoughts on infrastructure, if we don't deal with the little parts, it'll just get bigger and bigger, bigger until it's until it's an issue we just can't grapple with.

Colin 07:57
And it is very multifaceted, as you talked about. And so one thing that I have not shied away from nor nor will I is that the way out of this is a key part of it is to make sure that somebody has a roof over their head, but also has the health supports to deal with their underlying mental health and addiction issues. This is not something that we can just fix with policing and chase these folks who are, you know, human beings, out of our community, because that is not the way, they're part of our community. They're absolutely our residents. And and this is not something either that we can just fix, and then we're done. This is something as a municipality, and all municipalities will need to continue to invest in forever, because we're not going to eradicate mental health and addiction issues. We're not. And so it's going to require continued investment. But again, Kelowna has a plan that's leading the country in terms of helping folks. And I'm really proud of that. But it's so multifaceted. I know, we're going to talk about the intersection of, you know, health care with the justice system and various other things. But I'll leave it to you to ask those questions and steer where we're going.

Bob 09:12
Well, we'll get there. And I guess the you know, my personal comment is just the level of awareness in our community in our province that our country around these complex needs is raised dramatically over the last few years. So that's comforting to me. And hopefully, it's comforting to the rest of our citizens of Kelowna. So I'm going to get us back to affordability. It's, again, we had a lot of questions, and I'm sure you've heard comments. I've heard comments from my friends that own businesses that even people with well paying jobs can't afford to live here and we're worried about the affordability and how that impacts businesses to attract employees to our city. And what's your thoughts on that? What can you what can you tell us>

Colin 09:53
Yeah, so I'll say this is it is really frustrating as a council to be able to approve significant amounts of housing, but to see the price continually rise, and to see rents or the the price of homes continually become out of reach for what we would consider our average resident. That's hard and frustrating. So, there the reality is, is there are very few levers a city has in regards to affordability. You know, supply is probably the biggest one. And we have been approving developments probably quicker than any municipality in British Columbia and maybe even Canada, we continue to see significant investment in housing in our city. But yet it's still not making a difference. I know, one of the comments I often get is, well, you know, the units are being purchased by people who don't live here, say, are investors, right? That's not something the City of Kelowna can say, sorry, you're from out of town, you can't buy that. We don't have that ability. And we also need to keep in mind that who provides rental housing? Well, it's somebody who has to own that unit. So, you know, we still need people to invest in purchase units, and then put them on the market as rental. But what I can tell you and where we've had tremendous success is through some of the incentives, we have tax incentives at the City of Kelowna, we are seeing more purpose built rental housing built than our city's ever seen, my understanding is within the development process. Currently, there are 1000s of new rental only projects. But I also appreciate that some will say, well, that's great, but I can't afford to rent them. So what it means is then, if we we need to advocate and we are advocating to the provincial and federal governments for below market rental housing. And so that happens every single day, I can tell you, I can assure you of that. So we're going to need to see more investment by the province through BC Housing, and kudos to the province and BC Housing, we have approved our first ever high rise downtown owned by BC Housing, which will include below market rental apartments, but we need more of that. So all I can say is this is there are plans in place to our healthy housing strategy to see and oftentimes high rises get all the attention. But in our healthy housing strategy, it calls for housing right across the spectrum, from supportive housing, to subsidized or below market housing, to just straight rental housing to many different forms of homeownership not just condos. Because we know not everybody will want to live in a condo. And that's not our aim. But we're trying to create a diversity of housing for the residents who want to be here. But in terms of direct controls on the cost, or who can purchase or rent those units. That's not something the City of Kelowna, can stop or implement policy to change. And so that's where we're looking to our provincial and federal government and work with them, to help us provide that, but again, this is not a Kelowna only issue, price and rents are skyrocketing across the country. And again, I believe, though, that through our advocacy, and through our planning, the City of Kelowna will be further ahead as we move through this than other municipalities. And I'm comforted by that.

Bob 13:35
So it's at least a tri party, if not a quad party, if that's such a term, issue we have the municipality trying to expedite eight approvals for these projects, get more units built quicker. We have the private sector who's building them, and we have provincial and federal governments who are contributing money and policies. Is that what I'm hearing?

Colin 13:55
Yeah, absolutely. And then we also have the nonprofit sector who also plays a role, in running some of the housing projects, or getting directly involved in housing itself, through the purchase of land and, and creation of, of subsidized units. So it's multifaceted. And it's gonna take a lot of people working together. But we for as a city standpoint, are doing the best we can to get housing built for all of our residents. But I get the concern our residents have because it impacts a number of areas of our community.

Bob 14:26
Yeah, with lots of questions. And that's a good segue to a couple of the, I think more interesting questions that we had. And one was, what about Co Op housing? You know, is that being considered and there was another one about float homes, you know, what about that? What about float homes on Okanagan Lake like we see in the Lower Mainland.

Colin 14:42
So I gave you some answers to those two, I don't think we'd see floating homes as an option. And even if that were the lake is not necessarily the jurisdiction of the city. So and I don't think I think it when asked, most people would say they would rather not see housing right on the shore that way. So I would say likely not, however, Co Op housing. And again, this is one of those sort of myth busting opportunities right now is Co Op housing is a form of housing that is currently allowed within the City of Kelowna. So if a developer or a nonprofit or a Co Op wanted to come forward with the project, and they had the property to go ahead and do so that is something that is perfectly acceptable. Again, the City of Kelowna is not going to build Co Op housing, that's not a service we provide, nor is it what we get money for from other levels of government to do. However, there is nothing stopping anyone from from creating a Co Op, and I think Co Op housing would be a welcome form here in our community. Like any other.

Bob 15:52
ood, no, thank you. Okay, going on to a few more questions. There was certainly a lot about homelessness. And we talked about housing, the homeless and housing people with complex needs. And then there was our annual citizens survey that came out recently that said, 80% of the people described Kelowna, safe. But when we're here, anecdotally, the crime is increasing. What do you think needs to be done here? So is there a correlation between those two? And where are we in terms of, obviously, we want to be a healthy, diverse city that as we've talked about, but safety is obviously a huge concern.

Colin 16:27
Absolutely. So safety is a huge concern, hearing that loud and clear. But I do want to state that just because a person is homeless does not mean that they are engaged in crime, but I understand the stigma. That being said, one thing that we have seen in our community is frustration with our justice system, because what's happening is, particularly with chronic and repeat offenders, they're being arrested and released, arrested and released. It seems like with no consequences, and so residents are frustrated, as are we as local government. So one of the things that we and I say the collective we here the BC urban mayor's caucus has done is because this is taking place in all of our communities, is we have gone to the provincial government, with our statistics to say, a small number of our residents are responsible for a significant number of files, but there doesn't seem to be any consequences. So as a result of our advocacy, the provincial government recently announced it's taking steps to look into potential changes to our justice, and on our health care system. And why those two is this is because we we know that most prolific offenders in our community are likely dealing with a mental health, addiction issue or both. So you have to then ask yourself, if we arrest this person, is prison the best place for them, because one, they should be facing consequences. However, we don't want them to face a consequence, and then just repeat the pattern. So the provincial government is finally looking at ways that we can address these chronic offenders, but also deal with their underlying issues. So that this just isn't an endless cycle that costs a lot of money. So there's a lot of work taking place right now, to look into that. But then just to bring it back down to the Kelowna focus, the great work that we have done to create a community safety plan to bring organizations from across the city, including the RCMP, key provincial ministries, and others, to work on a plan that looks upstream, so that we're not always being reactive to stop crime before it happens. So if we see at risk youth in our community, how can they get access to the programs and the health that they need to turn their lives around so that they become the next generation of our prolific or repeat offender? That's just one example. But we have an amazing community safety plan to address the health and wellness and safety of our community from a high level to prevent some of this from happening. But again, it's going to take, you know, some time to implement before we start to see the positive the major positive rewards, but it is a necessary step. But back to your original question. We know that crime is an issue in our community. But we also know that RCMP are just as frustrated as we as residents and business owners are, because they'll arrest somebody and that person is out on the street the next day. So I'm glad that the provincial government is looking at the justice system and how overworked it may be and causing some of what we're seeing, but also that they're looking into the overlap between the justice and the healthcare system, so that we just aren't sending someone to jail. And then they come out with the same mental health and addiction issues and feed it through crime. And nothing changes.

Bob 20:07
I'm going to bring us back to the question or one of the questions that we had, which is, again on break-ins downtown. So one of the questions was on a local clothing store that were broken into twice, I think within a two week period. And so those are the bigger broader policies. What do you say to somebody who owns that downtown business? Who's been broken into multiple times? And, you know, do we have a crime issue? Do we have crime issue that's unusual for the community of our size? And obviously, the city is spending an immense amount of money on police services. So what do you say to that person who says, Hey, mayor, like, you know, I'm just getting choked here, because I keep having to replace my window, my door? My merchandise, that is stolen? What do you say to that person? To comfort them and let them know something's going on?

Colin 20:53
So I do I certainly sympathize with with that individual. And those business owners and I share their frustration. So is there an issue? Absolutely, there is an issue in our community. So what I would say to them is that we are tackling this on multiple fronts. Again, the traditional way has always been through enforcement, the City of Kelowna has invested millions of dollars in adding police resources, so that there's an increased frequency of patrols and boots on the ground, to protect our residents and to keep them safe. However, that being said, that's not enough. So again, it's all the things that we have just talked about, it's creating housing, so that people are off our streets, if the person in fact happens to be homeless, it's getting the health care supports that they need to deal with, the reason why they're breaking into that business in the first place, is probably to feed an addiction, but also to work with the province on fixing the justice system. Because these business owners are frustrated that they can have, they can have videotape, and the RCMP could go and arrest this person, they're going to be right back on the street as a result of the the issues we're seeing. So I would say that, as frustrated as they are, I would remind them that there is some great work happening right now. And we are as close to seeing really significant system changes than we have ever been. And here's another example, we now have the provincial government talking about something called mandatory treatment. So in the past, and as it stands currently, anyone with an addiction issue, seeking help, is a choice. But if you're a criminal who has been caught doing something to feed that addiction, I say rightfully so the provincial government is now talking about the potential of as as as one of the consequences mandatory treatment, because treatment right now is not mandatory. Those are good steps.

Bob 22:59
And that's a huge difference between our current system, obviously, when you're now mandating somebody towards that, I mean, I can see how controversial that'd be, but I can also see the value in that.

Colin 23:11
But because clearly what's happening right now, in terms of our work systems aren't working. So we need system change, and that would be a big one. But anyway, we are going to get a report from from the provincial government by the end of the summer, with some hopefully key actions that will be taken by the province to address some of these more significant issues that are frustrating myself, our RCMP and and our residents, who are business owners.

Bob 23:39
How are how's our police force doing, you know, how are the RCMP handling this and how's their level of health when it comes to doing their job and also seeing the results of their their job being challenged, I guess, by provincial policy.

Colin 23:54
So I would say also, well, first of all, our superintendent is doing a great job, Kara Triance is great at at what she does, and we have a great RCMP leader in our community. That being said, though, our RCMP are just as frustrated as residents are. And you only need to look at what took place a few weeks ago, where we had an officer who was stabbed. And it's just almost It's a miracle that they're still alive. But again, we're dealing with somebody with mental health and addiction issues. And so one of the things that we need to talk about in terms of system change is when we're talking about first response to mental health and addiction, is a police officer, the best person for that? And so the provincial government just recently announced things it's looking at doing to update the The Police Act. And one of those things is when a person calls 9111 of the options will be a mental health option, if you will. Because I think it's fair to say that well, in some cases, yes, where an individual or the public safety is at risk, of course, the RCMP should be the first call. But there are many instances where the public is not at risk. And somebody is under mental health duress, sending somebody in a uniform carrying a gun is not the most appropriate. And so we have been fortunate in that Interior Health has invested some I would say, well, I would say minimal resources. In working with our RCMP by providing a mental health nurse to accompany an RCMP officer. It's not enough to deal with the mental health calls, but at least it's something. But again, we need to shift these systems to get people the appropriate help that they need. As opposed to the RCMP being the first call, to those situations, when perhaps they aren't the best suited to handle that call, because they are not trained or they're not doctors, they're not nurses. But a lot of what they're having to deal with is issues well beyond their scope. And they are just as frustrated as as we are, that they have to be the first response. And I know that they're also frustrated that, again, they continue to see people arrested, with little to no consequence, but also not getting help for their underlying issues. So it's a frustration for everyone. But I am really happy with the work that's going on advocacy wise that I have helped lead with my fellow mayors across the province.

Bob 26:56
Well, people can't see you, but you're sort of almost elevating out of your chair as you're talking about this stuff. And so it's comforting to me and hopefully to our listeners that you're obviously well read well researched and passionate about these issues. And when we talk about growth and some of the social impacts that come along with that, in terms of homelessness and crime and so on. So we're towards the end of our second podcast here and I want to end more on a positive note, let's say, and give you the chance to answer this question which I've asked a few of our guests before and especially as the mayor as the vision caster for our community. What do you think you know, so you're gonna you're gonna drive up Knox mountain? Well, hold on, you can't drive up the whole way anymore. You got to walk up part of it. You're on top of Knox Mountain, wherever, however you decide to get there. And what do you see Mayor Basran ran, when you look out over Kelowna, 20 years from now, what's your, you know, what's your wildest hopes, dreams, frustrations, whatever that looks like for you, as you look at our city 20 years from now?

Colin 27:52
Yeah, great question. Well, I see a continuation of of what's happening here, I want to see a city that continues to grow in a responsible way. But I see a beautiful downtown skyline, you know, illustrated by, you know, some great architecture in you know, the high rises that that are our downtown. And, you know, in our urban centres, I see a community where residents have great options to get around alternatively than just their vehicles. So town centers connected by great and frequent transit, active transportation corridors, I see a healthy city in terms of residents, being able to take advantage of beautiful new green spaces. And to get there get around on our active transportation corridors. So I see healthy residents, I see vibrant, vibrant community with, hopefully by then a new performing arts centre, and great new arts and cultural spaces. So I see a really engaged citizenry, and great opportunities to take in arts and culture and knowledge. I see increased partnership, closer relationships with our First Nations partners, the Okanagan, Indian Band and West Bank First Nation. And I see some of you know, I see these street issues dealt with I see a city that's reached functional zero in terms of homelessness, where if somebody does find themselves in a situation where they're on the streets, it's only for a short period of time, and they're able to transition into housing and to get the help that they need. So I see a vibrant economy, you know, bolstered by our key industries like agriculture, tourism, but the continued growth of tech, or you know, a growing number of entrepreneurs who choose to call Kelowna home for lifestyle, and why they'll continue to do that is because we've done a great job of protecting our key asset which is our environment. We have a healthy lake system. We have you know, we've we've limited sprawl and our have protected are green spaces, and have created just a city that continues to be a place that everybody wants to live or invest in.

Bob 30:08
Well, that's wonderful. And as you're talking, I'm thinking that you're going to probably have a lot more time on your personal hands because your kids will be in their 30s By then so. So that's something to look forward to as well. It's been great having you and enjoyed the chat and thanks for sharing your background, your vision, your passion for the city with us as well.

Colin 30:28
Awesome. Thank you.

Zoe 30:33
Thank you for listening to this episode of Kelowna Talks. For more conversations about topics that matter in your community. Subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. If you liked what you heard, give us a five star rating and review and share Kelowna Talks with your friends and neighbours. For more information about this podcast and other big community conversations, visit Kelowna.ca/communitystories