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Welcome to The Overflow—the bonus round of faith and real-life conversation with Brandon and Susan Thomas. Every week, they unpack the powerful insights, behind-the-scenes experiences, and personal reflections that didn’t quite fit into Sunday’s sermon.
This is where the conversation gets practical, honest, and a little bit unscripted. Whether it's an encouraging word, a deeper dive into Scripture, or a hilarious moment from their week, Brandon and Susan bring fresh perspective and spiritual fuel to keep you going.
It’s real talk, fresh takes, and full hearts.
These are the conversations too good to cut and too real to miss.
Welcome to The Overflow. And today, we've got a a a good one, especially if you want to be productive. Yes. Today, we're talking about getting the job done. We all want to be productive, and this is a mile long and so deep.
Speaker 1:It's so deep and wide how we could cover this topic. But there's three things that we want to address on being more productive, getting the job done. And I believe that there is someone that is starting out in their career and you've been hitting a lid, this is going to break through that lid. There may be some parenting gold in this topic. And also other pastors out there or leaders, this is going to lift some lids for you.
Speaker 1:I really do believe it. We're gonna see how the Bible talks about getting the job done. Yes. Increasing your productivity.
Speaker 2:Yes. Do. We wanna get the job done. Whatever that job is, we wanna get it done. And the reality is that many of us, if not careful, and there there may be people that work with you, for you, even over you, or even in your own home that work really, really hard.
Speaker 2:Like, people that put in the effort, put in the sweat equity, work really hard, yet very ineffective.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's you work really hard, but you're not working really smart. And, we wanna help you with this. And and and full disclosure, this is the overflow. Okay?
Speaker 1:The reason we decided to do this is this is an overflow of things God is doing in our lives and in the things that he just feels like we're led to teach in this season. And so there's three things that we're teaching our team at church, on the staff. And it's about working smarter and leading smarter and being more productive, but ultimately for us all, it's getting the job done. And there's a New Testament example and an Old Testament example. I'll give the Old Testament, you give the New Testament.
Speaker 1:Okay. And it's in Exodus 18 and Acts chapter six. So I'll let you turn there while I read in Exodus chapter 18, this biblical anchor of getting the job done. Exodus chapter 18, Moses' father-in-law. Okay, so Moses is leading the people out of slavery.
Speaker 1:Miracles are happening. It's amazing. Father-in-law comes to see him. Moses is almost like, my goodness, this is what God has done, they're blown away. And then Moses' father-in-law, oh, and Moses was staying day and night being the judge of all the people and determining what is right and wrong.
Speaker 1:And yes, this was correct and that was wrong. He was he was burning out. And Moses' father-in-law replied, what you are doing is not good.
Speaker 2:You
Speaker 1:and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out. The work is too heavy for you. You cannot handle it alone. There it is. Listen now to me and I will give you some advice and may God be with you.
Speaker 1:You must be the people's representative before God and bring their disputes to him. Teach them his decrees and instructions and show them the way they are to live and how they are to behave. But select capable men from all the people, men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain, and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. Look at the specificity of that. Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you.
Speaker 1:The simple cases can get they can decide themselves. They, that's an important principle I'll bring up in a moment. So simple ones, they can do. If it's complicated, go to Moses. They will make your load lighter because they will share it with you.
Speaker 1:If you do this and God so commands, you will also be able to stand the strain and all these people will go home satisfied. Moses listened to his father-in-law did everything he said. Those he chose capable men from all of Israel, made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. They served as judges for the people at all times, the difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they dedicated to themselves. And here we see, through the advice of Jethro, get the job done.
Speaker 1:And I will say, one thing I hadn't planned on mentioning, it just jumps off the pages for me, and that is the power of the right voices in your life.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, that's so powerful.
Speaker 1:I mean, who are you surrounding yourself with? Are the voices in your life, you want to be productive, you want to get the job done, are you surrounded by people that are constantly distracting, bad worldview, a carnal Christian, or do you have the right voices? Joseph, in this case, was the right voice.
Speaker 2:Jethro.
Speaker 1:I mean, sorry, Jethro, thank you. I do that all the time. Jethro was the right voice. Now you have a New Testament example.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And before I share that one, as I'm putting myself in that moment, that story at the very, very beginning when you when Jethro went to him and said, what you're doing is not good. How how did he say it? He's like
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:This is not he said this is
Speaker 1:not What you are doing is not good.
Speaker 2:Okay. So it wasn't the job. Right. The actual job was very important to have judges and to have people doing that, to have a person helping with all of these people be a righteous judge. So it wasn't the job itself, it was how the job was being done.
Speaker 2:And so I think that's just a powerful nugget as we keep reading.
Speaker 1:It is. And and I'll give this principle and then read Acts six, because you see it in the New Testament too. Yeah. And that is we get a messiah complex. And you should never out messiah the messiah.
Speaker 1:And Jesus had people around him. And Jesus didn't feed the 5,000 by himself. What did he do? He asked the disciples, hey. I want you to do this.
Speaker 1:Let's go.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 1:And and don't out messiah the messiah. Okay. Go.
Speaker 2:Acts chapter six. Very powerful. Okay. So acts chapter six, we see another moment like this involving work. But as the believers rapidly multiplied, there were rumblings of discontent.
Speaker 2:So the church is growing. It's multiplying. The Greek speaking believers complained about the Hebrews speaking believers, saying that their widows were being discriminated against in the daily distribution of food. So the 12 called a meeting of all the believers. They said, we apostles should spend our time teaching the word of God, not running a food program.
Speaker 2:Listen to that. They aren't saying a food program is wrong. They're just saying we know what we're called to do, and we need to be doing it. And so, brothers, select seven men who are well respected and are full of the spirit and wisdom. We will give them this responsibility.
Speaker 2:Then we apostles can spend our time in prayer and teaching the word. And it goes on to say that everyone liked that idea. They implemented it, and the message and the good news kept moving forward.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm I'm overwhelmed by the joy of serving at Keystone Church.
Speaker 2:The
Speaker 1:joy of serving. And you are robbing people of the joy of serving when you choose to just do it all yourself.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And to lead smart, to be effective, to get the job done, you have other people in your life.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:A parenting principle for this quickly out of the gate, and then we'll get into the meat of it. A parenting principle here is, are you doing all the chores, or are you getting your children to share in the chores? We have had success and failure in this.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:There's areas where we look at others and we say, you're so much better than us. Wow. And we're encouraged by that. Again, who are the voices in your life? And it spurs us to have them take more responsibility.
Speaker 2:Can we give some examples of that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:So some examples of that. And again, you're absolutely hitting it nail on the head. We had some real successes and some real failures. Side note, the other day, I was talking to one of my adult daughters, and I was just woeful, sad thinking, have I equipped you for life? And I don't know if I taught you things that you needed to know, and did we ever make you work?
Speaker 2:And she started listing all the ways we made her work as a child.
Speaker 1:It made
Speaker 2:me so happy.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 2:So but some of the things that we did and some of these things we would try and it's like, that did not work. Like, I tried a chart. And one time I had a chart, stickers, the whole nine yards. Yeah. It was just not sustainable.
Speaker 1:It didn't that works for somebody.
Speaker 2:It worked for somebody.
Speaker 1:It didn't
Speaker 2:work It for just did not work for me. Then for a minute, I had a little glass mason jar, and I had popsicle sticks in the Mason jar with a chore on them, and you'd get to pull out
Speaker 1:your popsicle sticks. Not eighteen years old here. They're very young.
Speaker 2:They're very young at They this are very young at this stage, but they'd pull out their popsicle stick, and that was their chore. And then that would be the thing they had to go get done. Actually, that that also might have been for grounding. Oh. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, if you're in trouble, you get an extra popsicle stick because you're got in trouble.
Speaker 1:Oh, goodness.
Speaker 2:A good idea.
Speaker 1:That is really good.
Speaker 2:Good discipline thing. Anyway, but that didn't last forever, but it was an effort. I think the one that stuck the best, we called them tickets.
Speaker 1:Yes. Tickets tickets?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Tickets. And
Speaker 1:we have our own form of tickets now.
Speaker 2:We do.
Speaker 1:It's called texting. But but back in those days, we would just write up on sticky notes, we would write their jobs. And we'd have them all sticky noted out and you'd take yours back this, and it was age appropriate and it was never fair. We tried, you know, oh, they're doing more. Well, you don't know what they did yesterday, you know?
Speaker 1:And so we tried to teach them that as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, don't look over the fence at your neighbor's yard.
Speaker 1:That's right, you just do the work we've asked you to do. And, tickets were highly effective, but here's what's happening. With all that work, okay, there's two things happening. We just talked about how we're, we're installing a work ethic in their life. And that's probably the greatest enduring ethic of the whole thing.
Speaker 1:But truthfully, we had a growing family and we were both working very hard. And we needed, our home would be more effective if everybody was pitching in.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just a fact of life. Our home would be more effective if everybody was pitching in. And recently we were in a very busy season where both of us were really doing God's work and very busy at that work. And we said to a couple of our kids who may or may not have been home from college and were rightfully just sleeping in and hanging out, you're cleaning the kitchen today. You're doing, you know, and we came home to a clean house, we came home to a pristine kitchen.
Speaker 1:Well, I say pristine, almost pristine, but, and we'll talk in a moment about how when they clean the kitchen, things are going to wind up in the wrong drawers at times.
Speaker 2:Might look a little different than when we clean
Speaker 1:the kitchen. That's okay, we'll talk about that in a moment. In parenting, it helps them, but it also helps the household. Think about the household, it helps the whole household. Teach your kids to make those beds, you know, because they want the simple joys of sliding into a tight bed, you know?
Speaker 1:But also at work, some of you, you're hitting a lid in your career because you have those control issues and you have trust issues. You've gotta embrace the Jethro, embrace the deacon, embrace those lessons all throughout the Bible. Share the work. Yeah. Multiply yourself, and you'll see more get done.
Speaker 2:That's right. Well, and at home, you know, going back to parenting, and I do it applies absolutely to any job that you're in as well, lots of areas of life. But in parenting, I think some of the things that can trip us up, I'll just speak for myself, is you you mentioned that control thing. I want it done excellent, or I want it done I have a certain preference of how I want the task completed. And there were times when I would win and I would delegate and I would do my part to to help them do the job.
Speaker 2:But there was other times that I was like, forget it. I'm doing it myself. I need I want it done a certain way. You just have to watch out for that draw that I want it to be perfect, and so it becomes a lid on your delegation to others. I think in one other trap to watch out for in parenting is sometimes it's just easier to do it yourself.
Speaker 2:And you have to remember, not only are you sharing the load in the home to make it more manageable for you ultimately and everyone everyone, but also there's areas where if I wasn't careful, I would be neglecting something they need to learn.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like, even today, true confession, I did that with cooking. I was not great at teaching them all just how to cook really great. I mean, they have some bare minimum skills, but, like, that's an area where I would go back. I would I would try to I would want to do that different. But I think one of the challenges that you fall into that I fell into with four small children, is we've just gotta eat.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna slow down.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna take the time right now. And that's just it's something to have your eyes wide open, and I think God can help us.
Speaker 1:So good. So there's three things we're gonna talk about in getting the job done, being productive. And the first is delegation, the second is empowerment, and then the third is being a lifelong learner. And let's start with delegation. Delegation is tasks.
Speaker 1:Okay? There are simple tasks that I'm going to ask you to do. The ultimate example of that would be the tickets you're referring to. We delegated things that we otherwise would do, and we gave them to them. Delegation is the secret sauce.
Speaker 1:Excellent delegation is the secret sauce for all of the wonderful fast food chains that you How see out on earth do I get the same chicken nugget from Chick fil A? How do I get the same one? Mean, tastes exactly the same, the same amount of breading, the same type of breading.
Speaker 2:In Texas or in Florida.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the same size of meat. Wherever you are, you get the same thing. How do you do it? Because they equip their people to do tasks. You do not freelance, you do not think about it, you do not dream about it.
Speaker 1:It is systems and processes built on tasks that are repeatable, and this is exactly the way you do it, that is called delegation. If only you bake the pies, you're starting a pie company, and only you bake the pies, then your company will be so This is how food companies burn out. Was reading about this. How they burn out, small businesses burn out is because the initial leader who made those amazing pies that everybody said, You've got to sell these. These are the best pies I've ever had.
Speaker 1:They burned out because they're no longer making pies for a small group of friends. They're taking off because everybody loves them, and they could not figure out how to delegate. They couldn't figure out how to get others to make it the way they make it. They couldn't figure out those simple tasks. And so in delegation, what's happening?
Speaker 1:You are multiplying your effectiveness. And you are, the tasks that you yourself are consumed with doing, now you have other hands doing it. Now in truth, you have to accept that when you delegate tasks to others, that there might be a minimum 20% fall off. I'd say if there's more than a 20% fall off, you need to equip, you need to raise up, you need to train up, you need to spend some time with them, and go back and show them how you want it done, and be very creative in doing that. But in work, for example, the delegated tasks should hit about 80%, I think, of how you would do it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you've got to decide where is it when 80% is okay for me? Now, it may not be perfect, and that 20% is what's gonna lead you to not delegate. Because it's gonna drive you crazy when the forks are in the wrong spot. It's gonna drive you crazy when they put the spoons or the cookware spoons where the dishware spoons are. It's gonna drive you crazy.
Speaker 1:But they emptied the whole thing. It's five seconds for you to go put that back.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Then mention it to them and then you move on. That's five seconds. But how long did it take you to empty the dishes?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, minute I mean, you know, fifteen, twenty minutes to do everything, whatever.
Speaker 2:Right. And this is true in the home, and it's true in business, as you've said. It's true in church. We we talk about this with the teams at Keystone Church, And it is being careful not to grip something so tightly that you don't expand the reach. You don't expand the potential through multiple hands doing the work.
Speaker 2:I think about this, how this played out in a lady named Jan Frankie.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Some people will know this dear name, this dear woman. She is someone who came alongside me early years of Keystone Church and really helped me in our women's ministry. And one of the gifts that is so unique to Jan is that she is a connector of people. She calls it ministry eyes, loving to see the person in front of you in the lobby of the church or wherever you might be, seeing them, but having a lens through which you see them of ministry. And so she would minister to women, particularly men and women, but minister to people by connecting them to other relationships and and helping build community.
Speaker 2:She was so effective at this that she helped me, I mean, just grow our brand new women's ministry element of our church. And it just continued to grow and to thrive, and women loved Jan. Well, I remember the day when I went to Jan, and I said, January, I want to task you to duplicate yourself. I want you to find women and begin praying for women that you could invest in to help shoulder the different arms of our women's ministry. And we had a lot of events at the time and bible studies and activities, and she was single handedly leading those things and, of course, having servant leaders be a part of it.
Speaker 2:But I wanted her to raise up leaders of leaders. And I remember that first meeting, you know, she just began to think through that. And, I mean, for so long, she had been been tasked to do this primarily on her own. But when she caught a hold of that, I watched her go and find women who were just like sponges to receive from Jan. She began to pour into them, and I watched, physically watched, how exponentially the load began to be shared and the ministry continued to move forward even more effectively, and it grew.
Speaker 2:And not only did it grow, but I watched these women that had been recruited exercise their God given gifts, exercise what God had put inside of them. And at that point, the whole place begins to grow exponentially, and you're seeing people get healthier as we let go. And did every single person do it exactly the way Jay and Frankie would do it? No. But they ran with their gifts, and the whole ministry flourished.
Speaker 1:Right. And and honestly, we've seen people in ministry who have really struggled with this principle. Yes.
Speaker 2:We have.
Speaker 1:And and it it it is the signs of the struggle, the signs that you are gripping too hard, the signs that you're not delegating, is these signs look like grumpiness, bad attitude, messiah complex, which would be pride, or martyr complex, men do they not see what I do around here? These are the signs that you're gripping too hard, you're not delegating. The next phase that I'd love to step into is very similar to delegation, but it is different. They share many things, but it is different, and that is empowerment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so delegation is putting tasks in the hands of others.
Speaker 1:And those tasks that they are embracing have been defined for them. They're not making choices, they're executing tasks. They're using their creativity to do it right, okay? Empowerment is a little bit different. While delegation is task centric, empowerment is individual centric.
Speaker 1:Okay? So all the energy is on the task. I'm equipping you to do that task. But empowerment is I'm equipping you as a person to be the best leader you can be, and it's built on trust. Okay, so I trust this person.
Speaker 1:It's built on release. And what it really looks like is this person is acting on my behalf. Okay? So in the fast food model, this empowerment would not happen at the fry station or the cleaning crew. Empowerment would happen with the manager.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the manager's gonna have to make decisions. The owner can't be there all the time. The manager has to make decisions. And so that manager engages and the manager is executing the delegatable tasks. I just made that word up.
Speaker 1:But the manager is driving the tasks the way you want them, the way the organization wants them. The manager is driving the task, but the manager will have to make decisions that you used to make. But if you have three managers, you've multiplied yourself three times. Again, even in empowerment, they may not get it exactly the way you want it because they're empowered to make decisions, and that means they have to be empowered to get it wrong. Okay?
Speaker 1:You have to define how much wrong am I willing to live with.
Speaker 2:And what's wrong versus what's preference.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And where am I okay to release control or release some of my preference versus having discernment and honestly asking God, depending whatever line of work you're in, in your home or in your business, your job, but also where the line is between, okay, this preference is actually part of the vision. Or this this is where this line crossed entering into, yeah, that's not going to work here, or that maybe wrong per se.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so how does this play itself out in church? How this plays itself out in church life is Ephesians chapter four. That God, and I don't have it pulled up right now. Why don't you look it up?
Speaker 1:Ephesians chapter four,
Speaker 2:verse think I'm 12. To.
Speaker 1:Four, four, 12.
Speaker 2:Okay, hold on.
Speaker 1:In Ephesians chapter four, this is the structure, and I could loosely quote it, but I'd rather get it perfectly right. But Ephesians four twelve is the model for how the church is to be built. This is church ministry effectiveness. And you're about to see empowerment and, and by its implication, delegation. Okay?
Speaker 1:So Ephesians four twelve.
Speaker 2:Their responsibility is to equip
Speaker 1:Wait. Read 11. Sorry.
Speaker 2:Read too. Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church. The apostles, the prophets, the evangelist, the pastors, and teachers. So these are gifts. These are certain people that are operating in a certain gifting, maybe even an office.
Speaker 2:But their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
Speaker 1:So we've been teaching this to our team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that scripture has been since day one, twenty plus years ago when we started Keystone Church. So you have the five office, five roles that you see there, five gifts to the church, okay? So we're not wrong, to say, okay, a prophet is a gift to the church. An evangelist is a gift to the church. A teacher is a gift to the church.
Speaker 1:But what are they to be doing? Multiplying. Get the job done. What's the job? Kingdom of God.
Speaker 1:Build God's church. Do ministry.
Speaker 2:Do the ministry.
Speaker 1:And it says there, to do the work of the ministry.
Speaker 2:And this is so critical because in often in church environments, there is the either conscious or unconscious belief that it's the hired staff that do the ministry.
Speaker 1:Yes. Okay. There's two extremes. I love this.
Speaker 2:Yes. Say it.
Speaker 1:There's the hired staff. Okay. We sit back and we tithe.
Speaker 2:We being
Speaker 1:Church people, thank you. Church people sit back, they often have a mindset, I tithe, I give, hire staff who does all the ministry. What we embrace is Ephesians four twelve, that we recognize that's not even a mindset at Keystone, that people are hiring staff. That's not even a mindset. Our mindset is that God raises gifts.
Speaker 1:And those gifts are to the church. And I'm very careful to say this publicly to the church. Whenever someone else is going to preach, I say, hey, church, you're gonna be blessed by this gift. To you, God has given you a gift today. Or another person on our team who has a different gift than me, hey, aren't we blessed by pastor so and so's gift?
Speaker 1:That gift is for us. And we just have that mindset that God has installed certain people. And the truth is that here in Ephesians four twelve, these are seen people. These are people who are leaders. That's okay.
Speaker 1:Cause there's another extreme. The other extreme over here is no leaders, No leaders. We're all the same. Nobody's a leader. Nobody's this, that.
Speaker 1:We just all come together, figure it out together. No, that's not scripture. So neither of those extreme examples, either this only the leaders are making decisions, only the leaders are doing anything, or there's no leaders, we're just all equal, Christian communism, none of that. So the Bible here is clearly saying there's leaders, but the leaders unlock the God given potential of the people. And this is so exciting.
Speaker 1:I'm excited about church. I'm going talk about church, but we'll give you an application for your career and even for your home. But the truth is empowerment says leaders lead, unlock the gift in those people. And so leaders, we're looking for people that we can empower. I've charged the team, look for people you can empower, that they would be in a position to make decisions, not just execute delegation, which is important, but also those that are lifted to empowerment.
Speaker 1:And in doing so, when you have the delegators and you have the empowered people and then you have the leaders who unlocking it, Man, God does a beautiful thing. It's like this beautiful garden that just comes into full bloom. And there's so much joy. There's joy in people. Hey, I don't want to think about it.
Speaker 1:Just tell me what to do. You know, because that's how you're made. That's what you're made to do. You take joy in that executable job and the job well done. I've been in that seat.
Speaker 1:I had great joy in it. You have joy in that responsibility. It comes with weight of making decision responsibility. And you have joy of authority and ultimate responsibility with God on the leaders you choose and how you're equipping them. And then I want to add this one last thing.
Speaker 1:There's more to talk about on all this, but there's one last thing. And this is, listen to what it said at the very end. They served as judges for all the people, the difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided for themselves. That's empowerment.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay? But then they would bring back to Moses. Let's just say that 20% got back to Moses. Moses is no longer doing 100 of what hours and minutes that he has in a day. He's doing 20 of different judges.
Speaker 1:He has massively multiplied himself and the whole nation was blessed. Okay? So that means that as you empower others, you will have to be still be respond. You don't ignore, okay? Delegation requires inspection, and you inspect what you have delegated.
Speaker 1:Empowerment requires visit, and you visit what you have empowered. Your job as the leader is to, spent, let's say you spent 20% on the equipping and the training, then you released. You need to then, they take care of the 80% of that work, then you need to reengage that last, or they say they did 60% of the work, then you need to reengage that last 20% checking in, making sure they may have questions, that's in that last 20%. You've given 40%, but they're living in the 60%. That's a powerful way to work.
Speaker 1:And then the last thing I would say is, you know, there's 20%, you know, that scripture that Susan just read talks about prophets and all these different gifts. There's the teachers and There pastors and is 20% of who you are that is greatness, that is sheer sweet spot, like God has gifted you in that 20%. When you commit yourself to that 20%, you are highly effective. You are swimming out of natural gifting. I mean, is unbelievable.
Speaker 1:That's just high octane giftedness. And what we've learned is that when you're in your 20, you're making 80% effectiveness. I mean, I know I'm throwing a lot of percentages around it.
Speaker 2:I know, could get really confusing.
Speaker 1:It's all in my head. But this is the overflow, so figure it out. But when you're in your 20%, okay, then just your effectiveness explodes. I would ask you what's your 20%.
Speaker 2:And I think what you're saying is this is where you are naturally gifted. Yeah. This is where someone else may struggle to do what you are doing because you God's given a natural gifting to that to you in that that area.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And find those around you that can do the rest. Maybe your lid is time. Maybe your lid is gifting. Maybe your lid is certain things that are needed to get the job done.
Speaker 1:Let's apply this to parenting. A parent, parent out of your strengths, manage your weaknesses. So if you're an encourager, encourage, encourage, encourage, and let God grow you in your criticisms. You need to be able to give constructive
Speaker 2:Maybe your
Speaker 1:Yeah, constructive coaching. Learn to be a good coach, but you may never be as good a coach as this other person to the next. You'll be a better encourager. Those kids were born to you and they know they're in your strengths. Same thing with the company that you lead or or the business you're a part of or the church that you're in.
Speaker 1:Man, find your 20% and then surround yourself. Share it. The apostles 20% was prayer, scripture, preaching, teaching. That was their 20%. They had to be there.
Speaker 1:And often the rest of that 80% is robbing you of your 20%. So find others to share in that 80%, and I believe you'll get the job done.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So good. And and two things that come to my mind if I remember them both, we're about to find out. But one is I wanna speak to leaders because we're talking about how to get the job done. If you wanna be a truly spirit filled leader tell me your thoughts on this if you agree.
Speaker 2:If you wanna be a truly spirit filled, like, god empowered at your max capacity kind of leader, You are not only concerned with the job itself getting done. You're concerned with the people doing the job.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's so good.
Speaker 2:Those people perhaps, maybe not even perhaps, matter more than the job. I mean, the job depending, and I mean, it's it it that gets nuanced. But we wanna have eyes to see the person. And so even with our team at church, and this is true in your tasks with your kids at home, don't be just concerned that they clean the kitchen. Be concerned about their work ethic as a child.
Speaker 2:Don't be concerned with your your teams or your staff or the person that's works for you in your business, which is did they accomplish their job, but are they growing as a person? Are you seeing them? Are you investing in them just with a kindness and a warmth as a as an employer or as a leader? And so seeing the people is everything. Do you are you even aware when they're going through a very hard time in their life?
Speaker 2:Are you so focused on the tasks that you have you have no eyes to see what's going on with the person? So that's a really big thing. And then your whole 80% thing that you're talking about, which for me, I interpret as 20% is the natural gifting that I'm operating in.
Speaker 1:And calling.
Speaker 2:And calling. And I'm gonna delegate 80% of what I do to other people. They may not be in the 20%, but that's okay. That's that's Moses. Moses had high, high gifting in judging, and so he took that, we'll say, 20% of the hard cases, but he delegated the other 80.
Speaker 2:Could he have done the other 80 in his sleep? Yes. But he delegated that to the other people, and as a result, the entire nation flourished. Here's what I would say. And I I would apply this to business, to church, and I'll take it to the home.
Speaker 2:Don't hold someone else in contempt because they have a different gifting than you have.
Speaker 1:So good.
Speaker 2:You may be particularly with a spouse, you may be holding them in contempt because you're not operating in the gifting. And to your example earlier, one of you is an encourager, one of you is a great coach. And you're holding that encourager in contempt because they don't coach like you want them to. What if God puts you two together, that together in humility, you become a power packed team and you're able to do both?
Speaker 1:That's so good.
Speaker 2:Because you're combining your strengths, you're not resenting each other for your strengths and your weaknesses.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let me piggyback on something you said there, and then we'll get to lifelong learner. We'll hit that quickly. I wanna piggyback on what you said about it's a people thing. You're so right because we, I remember this moment. There were two things that were holding us back, in our culture.
Speaker 1:Okay? As we grew as a church, there were two things I began to discover through different phases of growth. Particularly earlier in our growth phase as a church, I began to realize there were some people that just got the culture because they had access to us. They spent time with me, they spent time with you, and they caught the culture. But as we grew, more and more people couldn't spend that kind of quality time with us because we're human and limited.
Speaker 1:And we had to figure out, oh, if I don't figure this thing out and equip people in the culture, right, then that culture's gonna fizzle and they'll start interpreting the culture in their own way and we'll have a bad culture. The point of all that is, is in that equipping process, we begin to realize, you know, if if all we are is thinking through tasks and and all of that, then we're missing it. We've got to think about these people, you know? And part of my job in equipping them is seeing them as a person. And for those that are empowered, we want to empower you and equip you to see the people you've delegated to as people.
Speaker 1:And in doing so, this wonderful kaleidoscope of this ecosystem is created. And you hold in one hand the purpose of the organization and what we're supposed to be doing. Okay? It's not Kumbaya, we're all just singing all day long, you know, grilling hamburgers. No.
Speaker 1:We have a job to do, but you hold in one hand that, but then you hold in the other hand my God given calling that we're humans, we're people, and we have a relationship with God, we're to have a relationship with one another. And when you hold those two things firmly in rhythm with one another, then it's a beautiful thing. I love that. And then finally, lifelong learning. You want to get the job done, be a lifelong learner.
Speaker 1:As a parent, who are you surrounding yourself with? Who are your really good friends? How do they parent? And I would really encourage you, especially young families, I want you to listen to me right now. You need to find other parents who parent in the same worldview that you parent in.
Speaker 1:Those people are so important. You're learning from them, you're learning from one another, they're learning from you, you're rubbing off on one another. And there's going to come some tests as the kids grow older. What's, how do we do social media? It's incredible.
Speaker 1:The people that were friends and the kids that were friends, we had the same view on social media, basically. We had same view on phones, basically. Had the same view on dating, basically. And it helped. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It helped. And so be a lifelong learner, and it starts with the people you're learning with.
Speaker 2:And look at people that are older than you. Yeah. Look at their children, their maybe their adult children, and look at families and and say, you know, that's a family where I see fruit that I want in my home. And get in front of them. If the Lord would give you an opportunity to ask them, sit at their feet a a bit, Hey.
Speaker 2:Could we grab coffee? And I just hear about your journey as a mom or your journey as a father. Could you could you pour into me? That's the beauty of God's church and God's community is you get in community and you meet those people. But be a humble learner.
Speaker 2:And I would I would this whole section of of of the what did what did what did we say? Don't stop learning?
Speaker 1:A lifelong learner.
Speaker 2:Lifelong learner. I would just say never arrive.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's my summary. Never arrive. Apostle Paul, wrote so much of the New Testament I mean, he's the ninja apostle that we look at in the scriptures. Sometimes we see perceive him that way. He would say, I have not yet arrived.
Speaker 2:I have not yet arrived. I have not yet arrived. And so he kept pressing forward, pressing on, have that mindset when it comes to being a lifelong learner that I've not yet arrived. I do not have all the answers. I want to have a humble heart, and my first place to go and to learn and to get fresh fresh vision every day is the word of God.
Speaker 2:Yes. And I wanna go to people who love the word of God, filled with his spirit that can continue to point me in that learning direction. And it and in your job and your work, I mean, it get may get so practical that you're staying sharp with your skills, that you're refusing to get stuck. If you're a hairdresser, learn the new techniques. Don't just keep doing what you've been doing because it's worked all these years.
Speaker 2:Get out there. Find out the new trends. What are the new equipment? The new scissors I need to invest in. I mean, really, whatever that is for your industry, be a person who says, I'm not going to just slip into comfortable.
Speaker 2:I'm not just going to slide into laziness. I'm gonna keep pressing forward and be a lifelong learner.
Speaker 1:So good. We have a we have a philosophy that we've taught, and we believe with all our heart. And this is in marriage. This is in work. This is in parenting.
Speaker 1:It's in everything. You're either growing and going, or you are dying and your default position is decay. You do not tread water in life. You have a choice. I'm going to be a grower, a learner, an advancer, or I'm going to think I'm treading water, but really you're declining.
Speaker 1:And I'd encourage you, choose to be a lifelong grower. We're gonna get the job done.
Speaker 2:Yes. We're gonna get the job done. It makes me think of a restaurant. Have you been to the restaurant that started out amazing? I mean, the best menu.
Speaker 2:And why in ten years is it gone? Why at some point did you go eat there and you were both sitting at the table and thought, something's slipping here.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:It's the same menu, but I don't know. I can't put a finger on it. Yep. They went into neutral.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right. So good. Well, we did it again. Another episode of the overflow. You're just receiving what God is teaching us, and we just want it to overflow into your life, your career, your family, and every single area of your life.
Speaker 1:So let's continue to be lifelong learners, and let's embrace these principles of getting the job done. We'll see you next time on The Overflow.