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Confessions of a Shop Owner is hosted by Mike Allen, a third-generation shop owner, perpetual pot-stirrer, and brutally honest opinion sharer. In this weekly podcast, Mike shares his missteps so you don’t have to repeat them. Along the way, he chats with other industry personalities who’ve messed up, too, pulling back the curtain on the realities of running an independent auto repair shop. But this podcast isn’t just about Mike’s journey. It’s about confronting the divisive and questionable tactics many shop owners and managers use. Mike is here to stir the pot and address the painful truths while offering a way forward. Together, we’ll tackle the frustrations, shake things up, and help create a better future for the auto repair industry.
Mike Allen [00:00:00]:
Does the media economic landscape allow for true investigative journalism anymore or is it all bias and agenda driven?
Bryce Evans [00:00:07]:
I think that the individual journalists doing a lot of the work do have that unbiased approach and want to do work with the best integrity. I think the way that it then gets distributed and what people hear, what people see, you know, what's posted at the top of the website, what goes above the fold.
Mike Allen [00:00:24]:
So it's all the editors. Then.
Mike Allen [00:00:28]:
The following program features a bunch of doofuses talking about the automotive aftermarket. The stuff we or our guests may say do not necessarily reflect the beliefs of our peers, our sponsors, or any other associations we may have. There may be some spicy language in this show, so if you get your feelings hurt easily, you should probably just move along. So without further ado, here's your host, Mike Allen with Confessions of a Shop Owner presented by techmetric. Simply the best software ever made.
Mike Allen [00:01:05]:
All right, so day two, Apex. I'm just getting started. I'm a late riser, so it's 10 o' clock in the morning. I just got here five minutes ago. Thank God Braxton got here earlier and made sure everything was set up and running.
Bryce Evans [00:01:16]:
Right, right. But I'm here.
Mike Allen [00:01:18]:
Bryce, introduce yourself.
Bryce Evans [00:01:21]:
Yeah, I'm Bryce Evans. I'm the founder and editor in chief of Auto Service Leader.
Mike Allen [00:01:25]:
Okay. So I mean, we all know that magazine. We all get it, we all read it. It's the one that has like better quality paper and not full of ads, right? Correct.
Bryce Evans [00:01:37]:
Correct. No traditional ads in it.
Mike Allen [00:01:39]:
So how. It's probably a conversation for later, but I'm curious, how does that model work for the magazine? Is it just you have sponsoring partners that are recognized in every episode or every episode, every issue or what's that model?
Bryce Evans [00:01:54]:
Pretty much. So it's a very different model for this space and that it's a subscription based model. So the entire premise is that we wanted to bring a product and a content publication that actually had real information for our audience and serve our audience as them being our actual true customer. Traditional. Especially in B2B publications and trade media, it's very much advertising based. They're closed circulation models. So you know who your audience is, but they don't pay anything, they don't request it, they don't necessarily want it, and you mail it out and it's all based on advertising in it. And we want to do something to where we could build a publication and a media brand that actually focused on the content as the main source of what we do.
Bryce Evans [00:02:37]:
And if we put our audience as our customer first and foremost, then we can build products that they want. And so that allowed us to do something to where we built a magazine that is far more in line with what you'd see with like an enthusiast publication, you know, like a nicer car magazine or, you know, they're golf magazines like that, fishing magazines, hunting magazines. They're on higher quality paper. You want to hold on to it, read it for months and put on a shelf and look at it again later. The photography is so much better. We have one of our three people on our team is our art director and photographer and we send him around the country, take photos because one of the biggest things is having consistency in the way it looks and feels. It's no different than, you know, if you're shop with your brand and you don't want things to look different in one location versus another. We want every publication to feel like auto service leader and not be dependent on, you know, freelance photography or submitted photos or whatever it happens to be.
Bryce Evans [00:03:27]:
Because we want to give something that our audience will truly appreciate.
Mike Allen [00:03:31]:
Oh, consistent experience, right?
Bryce Evans [00:03:32]:
Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's the goal. So that's where the model comes in. And so we do have select sponsors that we work with and we look at them as true partners in what we're doing. We're super careful in who we choose and who we want to associate with and who we work with in that way. And as a kind of mentioned, we don't do traditional advertising. So everything we do with them is content based. So we want, we know that there are vendors in this industry that have a lot to offer our audience.
Bryce Evans [00:03:59]:
You know, saying that we don't do ads or things like that doesn't mean that, you know, you don't want to ever hear from these vendors or these software companies, these coaching companies, whatever it happens to be. But you don't want to be sold when you read a magazine. You want to get information that can help you run your business better or make you a better leader. And so we know that, you know, a lot of these people started their own company and they went through this, they're leading teams, they're doing the same things that our audience is trying to do. They have a lot of lessons to pass on. So we talk to them about those things, include them in the magazine. So it'll be, you know, we have columns from some of them. We've had like Sunil of TechMetric had a, a series where he talked about, you know, his 14 principles on leadership.
Bryce Evans [00:04:35]:
We have Aaron Stokes, his column is in there every month and several other people that you know can offer Carrie.
Mike Allen [00:04:40]:
Lynn from Turnkey in there.
Bryce Evans [00:04:41]:
Carrie Lynn of Turnkey. Yep.
Mike Allen [00:04:43]:
So awesome. Awesome.
Bryce Evans [00:04:44]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:04:45]:
So if there's a listener who has a business and they would like to partner with auto service leader, they just reach out to you and see what that looks like. And then my understanding is that it's, I mean, you're two years in now, right?
Bryce Evans [00:05:00]:
Yes, almost.
Mike Allen [00:05:01]:
Almost 24 episodes, 24 issues. Right. So because I got the blue year and then. Right. So what, what color are the spines going to be next year?
Bryce Evans [00:05:11]:
It's, it's going to be a surprise. So you'll have to wait and see.
Mike Allen [00:05:13]:
If like a, like a burnt umber, like a deep yellow would be good for me. Yeah, I know that's important that you know what I think.
Bryce Evans [00:05:21]:
Yeah, it is. Yes. That's what we're going to do a poll. It'll be you as kind of our top person. We ask.
Mike Allen [00:05:25]:
And I appreciate that.
Bryce Evans [00:05:26]:
Maybe a couple others too.
Mike Allen [00:05:27]:
So. Yeah, so it seems like, you know, they, they partner with you and then their logo and recognition in the first couple of pages and then they essentially have a column somewhere.
Bryce Evans [00:05:38]:
Yeah, yeah. Our sponsors. Correct. Yeah. And then for. We get outreach from a lot of shops cross country too, who wanted to be included and want to share their stories so people can always reach out. You know, we're always looking for more people.
Mike Allen [00:05:49]:
I mean there's probably seven, eight shops featured in every episode. I got to say. On an episode, bro, that's fine.
Bryce Evans [00:05:55]:
Same type of idea. Yeah, yeah. Every issue, I would say it's probably, gosh, an average between somewhere between like 13 and 18 shops in each issue. Yeah, we have, there are a lot of stories in there and that's one of the things that we're always excited about. When you release it's a hundred page book, there's very few pages that are dedicated to our partners because of the way that's set up. So I mean, we have 60 some pages of stories every single issue.
Mike Allen [00:06:19]:
So you have experience prior to auto Service leader in B2B trade publication. Right. And so, I mean, is it kosher to talk about it?
Mike Allen [00:06:31]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:06:32]:
So you were the executive publisher, editor of Ratchet Wrench.
Bryce Evans [00:06:36]:
I was the editor of Ratchet Wrench for quite a long time, yes.
Mike Allen [00:06:39]:
So in that magazine, what is the quotient of content versus ad space? Is it like 50, 50 or. Not that one specifically, but in general.
Bryce Evans [00:06:49]:
In general you have a threshold you have to hit to be able to mail in certain ways. So before it becomes just a marketing send for your magazine. So usually it's making sure you get to about a 40% threshold of content in the publication. To be totally honest, I haven't, I. We don't typically look at our, at the other publications in the industry too often.
Mike Allen [00:07:09]:
So I didn't say competition. That's good.
Bryce Evans [00:07:13]:
Well, yeah, I can explain that in a second. But yeah, we, we don't look at it a whole lot. I haven't seen a physical copy of it in probably a year and a half.
Mike Allen [00:07:20]:
It's so different. They're just. Yeah, they're not the same.
Bryce Evans [00:07:22]:
Yeah. And that's, you know, since we've started, what we've tried to explain to people and you know, people can take it however they want, but is that we're not doing this as a competitive entity to anything else that's out there. We think of what we're doing as very additive. I think there's a large gap in this industry of information for people. You have a lot of free resources that are great but are pretty limited, you know, and I do think, you know, what you're doing with this and what, you know, we're sitting here amongst all these other podcasts is awesome because there needs to be more access to more people sharing their viewpoints in the industry. And it gets, it gets difficult because you get your, you know, free trade publications, things like that, that are limited in what they can do, scope and scale, just based on advertising and, you know, relationships with other people, what you can write about, what you can't and different things like that. And then you have everything all the way up to, you know, coaching and training and this higher level in depth model of information. There's this large gap in between of, you know, people who need solutions and ideas and strategies for their business on demand when they need it, you know, when they're working through their shop.
Bryce Evans [00:08:25]:
And some of them are lucky, you know, have a network of people like you do, where you can call someone up, you can talk to somebody. A lot of shops out there don't.
Mike Allen [00:08:32]:
Yeah.
Bryce Evans [00:08:33]:
And so we're trying to do is really fill that gap between your traditional free information that's out there, kind of service level information and then all the way up to training. There's this giant area in here that, that needs some support and some help for people.
Mike Allen [00:08:46]:
So tell me about your website. And kind of its nature is like a, it's like a searchable database for content, right?
Bryce Evans [00:08:53]:
Yeah, yeah. The entire premise of it, I'm Glad you said searchable, because that's the entire point of how we built it out is that we want people going there when they have that question. You know, it definitely can work in terms of, you know, replacing your thumb scrolling on social media with going to the hub and digging through some different topics and things. But if you have a question or what, you know, your front counter, you feel like you're not greeting people the way you should be, like, how did you know the top shops in the industry do it? And you can search in, you know, greeting at the front counter, get a handful of different videos at different shops, talking about it. Then you'll have resources like we have SOPs on how to walk through that. You can download that and give it to your team. A whole bunch of different things on there. That's how we built out the content.
Bryce Evans [00:09:33]:
So what we do is we talk to people in video format first, then we edit those videos up to break them up in that way. So you have the individual topics each time. They're usually between 13 minutes, sometimes they're longer. But we want people to get the information quick. And then if it's like a 10 part series and something, there'll be 10 videos instead of a 60 minute video, for instance. And then we'll have associated resources like SOPs, downloads, guides, things like that. And then we kind of curated from there to determine what goes in print.
Mike Allen [00:10:01]:
So is that stuff once it's there, is it kind of there forever? I mean, I guess you have to have an ongoing subscription to have access to it.
Bryce Evans [00:10:08]:
You do?
Mike Allen [00:10:08]:
Yes.
Bryce Evans [00:10:08]:
You need a subscription to have access to it. And that's, you know, we get people asking why? Because they're used to the.
Mike Allen [00:10:14]:
Because it's a business, bro.
Bryce Evans [00:10:15]:
Yeah, yeah, that's a big part of it.
Mike Allen [00:10:17]:
Yes.
Bryce Evans [00:10:17]:
And, well, people get used to things just being available online for free. And I know that there's a huge transition in media in general over the last 20 years of kind of pulling back on that and having gated content and things. And what that allows us to do, as I was explaining earlier, is that we can then build a content that our audience needs, is not dependent on advertising. Because in a more traditional setting, if you have an idea, you have this content series you want to do, you have these interviews you want to do or whatever it happens to be. You need to have some sort of ROI to be able to invest your team's time into doing it. But ROI comes from just knowing that our audience is looking at it, that they're going to Access it that they're paying a subscription to access it. And so if people have questions and they, you know, there are certain issues or topics or things like that that they're not seeing either from us or anywhere they can reach out, we can start making it for them.
Mike Allen [00:11:05]:
So what does 2026 look like for Auto Service Leader?
Bryce Evans [00:11:09]:
Yeah, we have some exciting things planned. We're pretty excited. So we talked a bit earlier in the year, kind of mid year, kind of our launch of auto Service Leader 2.0. We've talked how we've ref do it, we've sent out some emails and things about it. We've. We've already started updating the hub. We changed a few things in the model of our print publication, some of our offerings and things like that. But I think our audience is going to see a pretty big difference when it kind of turns to 2026, both in terms of how it looks in print.
Bryce Evans [00:11:36]:
We're going to update some things and tweak and change things around. We're also going to have some pretty cool new content series that we can come out with some things that are a little bit more like kind of course focused as far as one person talking in depth about a certain topic and you get sequential content to where you watch this, then you get this and you get that. Some virtual events and the big news at some point coming up could possibly be a in person live event as well.
Mike Allen [00:12:04]:
Wow, throwing the hat in the ring too, eh?
Bryce Evans [00:12:06]:
Yeah, yeah.
Mike Allen [00:12:07]:
You know, TechMetric doing the same thing with tectonic coming up, right?
Bryce Evans [00:12:11]:
Yes. And I think, you know, as you know you go to a ton of events and I think everybody's trying to find this, you know, new modern model for it that benefits the audience coming to it and benefits sponsors being there. And we attend a lot of events too and you know, each one has its own purpose. So I think what, what there is a gap of is someone out there that's independent of, you know, a vendor independent of an association, independent of a coaching company that is putting on the event simply for the audience's benefit. Nothing against the other ones. Everyone like all of them are great, love all the events, are great things about all of them. But I do think there's something unique that we can provide in the industry that isn't out there.
Mike Allen [00:12:54]:
So if that were maybe gonna happen, roughly when would that maybe happen and roughly where would that maybe happen?
Bryce Evans [00:13:00]:
That that's still confidential. So at some point we can reveal that.
Mike Allen [00:13:05]:
Okay, yes, fair enough. Yeah, I just wanted to go ahead and get it on my calendar, man.
Bryce Evans [00:13:08]:
Yeah, we'll let you know right away. Don't worry.
Mike Allen [00:13:12]:
So I want to know a little bit more about you. Right. Because I think we've all kind of seen the growth of this magazine that. From my place of ignorance, it came out of nowhere. I was like, what is this magazine? And you start showing up, and then you teased me with a couple. And then I subscribed and signed up. And I've had the, you know, good fortune to have a couple conversations with you guys. It's funny.
Mike Allen [00:13:37]:
I think it was vision. Somebody walked up and they opened it to an article that had me in it, and I had forgotten that we even had the conversation.
Bryce Evans [00:13:46]:
Sure.
Mike Allen [00:13:46]:
And I was like, what the hell is that? I don't even remember when I had that conversation with somebody. But, yeah, it was pretty funny. But tell me a little bit about, like, your background, how you got into the automotive space, how you get into publishing. Sure. What's more about Bryce?
Bryce Evans [00:14:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I was a journalism major in school, so I was looking at going into newspapers and magazines and. And doing some writing. I worked at my school paper in college. I was the editor there.
Mike Allen [00:14:13]:
Where did your school.
Bryce Evans [00:14:14]:
I graduated from the University of Denver.
Mike Allen [00:14:16]:
Okay.
Bryce Evans [00:14:16]:
Went there the last couple years. I started at the University of Arizona. Transferred there. But, yeah. And I just kind of had a fascination with it. I always loved news and newspapers. Growing up, I was a kid that, you know, I'd wake up in the morning and I'd look at the sports page and look through the agate and the scoreboard and study stats and all that stuff. I always loved that about the sports aspect of it.
Bryce Evans [00:14:39]:
And then as I grew older, I wanted to do something that I felt like I could use some skill sets that I had, but also could have, you know, meaning and purpose in my work and feel like I was doing some sort of duty to my community by working in that area. And media seemed to be a good place for that. I believe in, like, the true integrity of journalism and the purpose of it and why we need a free press and. And why it's important. I feel like nowadays it's even. Even more so to have uninfluenced, unbiased information, which is very, very difficult to find. Not. Not a good state of media today.
Bryce Evans [00:15:14]:
Yeah. Impossible to find. But I feel like that even more so highlights the importance of it. Anyway, that's kind of where my mindset was, and I studied in school. I actually started out as a sports writer. My first jobs out of school were in sports, it wasn't necessarily intentional as much as it was just the first opportunity. I was able to get a job as a sports editor newspaper in Colorado for about three years then my wife and I are both from Minnesota, so we moved back to the Twin Cities area when we started having kids. And I worked at the Minneapolis Star Tribune, which is a newspaper there.
Bryce Evans [00:15:47]:
And then after a few years, it became something where I couldn't see myself doing that newspaper grind and definitely not sports long term. So I had a goal when I first got my job out of school. I talked to someone who was a mentor to me and a family friend. And he had worked in advertising, but kind of a creative field. So he knew a lot of the kind of ins and outs of it and having to work your way up. And he had asked me when I was, I would have been, I don't know, 21, 22, what my goal was for my career, you know, and I stated this specific job. I want to be this position at this newspaper doing this. And if I can do that, I'll made it.
Bryce Evans [00:16:24]:
And I remember this day, like his response just kind of like paused and was like, that's it, that's it, that's all you want to do. And then what? And in my head, when I was 22, I was like, then I'll just do that for 30 years. Like, what's wrong with that? And it just kind of went out my way and didn't really think about it. And. And I progressed through my career and the hope was I could get to that position, you know, 10, 15 years down the road when I was working on the Minneapolis Star Tribune, I was literally sitting next to that, like my cube was next to the job that was this dream job. And so I was maybe, you know, probably more steps away than I thought. In my head, in my head I'm thinking, like, I'm literally one seat away from it. And I'm sitting there day in and day out and watching this person who has this job.
Bryce Evans [00:17:09]:
And you know, he's like, he's cynical now. He's kind of jaded about everything. He doesn't seem to be enjoying what he's doing. And I just remember being horrified, thinking, like, I spent all this time like wanting to be this. And it looks miserable. And it was this big, just eye opening thing for me of like, what do I want to do? Like, how am I going to use a skill set that I build this experience that I have and actually do something that I'm not gonna, not gonna end up like that guy. And that started just kind of this time where I was looking for something else and just looking to try something totally different to see what else is out there. At the time, there was a publication that was about to launch that, you know, they had ads for a writer and an editor, and I supplied for it.
Bryce Evans [00:17:57]:
I didn't really know what the magazine was even about, but just the idea that there's this magazine could be part of launching something, it could be part of starting. It was a kind of a business within a business type of thing and have a big hand in shaping the voice of it, shaping what it is, what it'll stand for. It seems super exciting. And it wound up being an industry publication. Ratchet Wrench, as everybody knows now. So this is back in 2012, and I got a job there. And it was a part of an independent publishing company at the time, a small company. We had one.
Mike Allen [00:18:26]:
It wasn't Endeavor yet at that point. No.
Bryce Evans [00:18:27]:
It was called Ten Missions Media, and it was owned by one single operator, one owner operator of it. They had a collision repair publication at the time. And so I came in to essentially write Ratchet Wrench when it started, before it started. So I had this interesting task of. I think it was.
Mike Allen [00:18:44]:
So you ground up, built the two primary industry journals.
Bryce Evans [00:18:49]:
That would be one way of looking at. I suppose. Not my words, your words. So I had the task. I think I was hired in maybe February, and the launch is gonna be in July. So I was calling up all these people and asked them all these questions about their business, these intimate, like, details about how they've run their processes, what they do, then asking for their numbers. You know, how much volume do you do? How many cars do you do per month? What's your revenue? And it was shocking. One, how the initial thing is, everybody thought it was some fraud and no idea what it was.
Bryce Evans [00:19:21]:
They'd be like, what publication you're with? I'd say, Ratchet Wrench. And then they make some joke about the name and be like, well, I've never heard of nuts and bolts. Things like that. Constantly, like, how do I know you're for real? And I would kind of explain. I'd be like, I promise, I swear to you, like, this is a real thing. We're gonna have a magazine. It's not for, like, four now, for, like, four or five months. My promise is actually gonna happen.
Bryce Evans [00:19:42]:
Yeah. For real? Yes. Yes. And somehow, and it just speaks to the people in this industry, too, is that. I think at the time especially, people were really Clamoring for something different.
Mike Allen [00:19:53]:
Different.
Bryce Evans [00:19:53]:
There is really no information out there, at least to my knowledge and probably, you know, just ignorance at a time. Not a great opportunity to find this kind of higher level business knowledge and intimate shop details out there in the industry. And so people are eager for it and they seemed excited about it and people are willing to share and it was, it was a super cool experience for me to go through and not knowing anything about the industry and I don't know, I knew nothing about cars either. Not, not a car person naturally, but interested in business, interested in small business, all that and just to see the amount of detail and care they were willing to share was super cool. And it was something that, you know, I talked about wanting to have like purpose in my work and feel like I was doing something. And it was, it was an awesome feeling to that people trusted me with that information because I was then, you know, instructed to take it and share it with other people to help them better their businesses and better their lives is a cool responsibility to take on. And I just, I loved it. So I, you know, we went from there obviously and was there for over 10 years.
Mike Allen [00:20:58]:
Well, it feels like so much of the, I mean the independent, I mean it's independent, right? By title world is so disparate and there's so many operators out there who feel like they're living on an island by themselves and no one gets it or shares their experience. And so things like your magazine and coming to events like this or being part of a 20 group or being part of a trade organization like ASTA helps them realize that they're not alone and that they can have a peer group that, you know, we're not competitors.
Bryce Evans [00:21:33]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:21:34]:
There's more cars than I can fix. There's more cars than you can fix.
Bryce Evans [00:21:37]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:21:37]:
You know, let's just like lift ourselves up together, you know, rising tide and all that.
Bryce Evans [00:21:42]:
Definitely.
Mike Allen [00:21:43]:
So. I love what you do, man. I think it's awesome. I do want to go back. You said you got your start in newspaper and spent a fair amount of time in there before you ended up with 10 missions and hey, it's me, Mike's kid.
Mike Allen [00:21:59]:
Want to tell us your wild shop stories? Or maybe you just think my dad's totally wrong. Call us at 7:04 confess and leave a message. You can tell us we're awesome or you can tell us we're idiots. We're cool either way. That's 704 confess. Just don't make it too weird.
Mike Allen [00:22:15]:
Do you think that, I mean, how Much longer. Do you think newspapers will last? Do you think that they will survive?
Bryce Evans [00:22:23]:
I think. I think they will last and survive as a news entity. And we need that level of journalism, that level of skill and understanding of the trade. I think it's a very tough time right now. And I mean, we both made the joke earlier about that you basically can't find unbiased news nowadays. And that's the biggest problem is there is no trusted source. I think there will be a reinvention at some point. I don't think the solution is the talking head, influencer style media approach because there's also the very basic elements that they got that news from somewhere too.
Mike Allen [00:23:03]:
Influencers are the worst. And everybody's got a fucking podcast now.
Bryce Evans [00:23:07]:
Yeah, no kidding, right?
Mike Allen [00:23:08]:
It's awful. It's awful.
Bryce Evans [00:23:09]:
Who would put themselves on camera? So we're obviously a big part of that trend, but I, I do think there's a future for it. I don't think the format that it is in today, in the, you know, climate that we have today is a solution. I think we're dividing further and further apart.
Mike Allen [00:23:27]:
Does the media economic landscape allow for true investigative journalism anymore or is it all bias and agenda driven?
Bryce Evans [00:23:37]:
That that's the most difficult part. I would say that it does to an extent. I think that the individual journalists doing a lot of the work do have that unbiased approach and want to do work with the best integrity and, you know, the true aspects of their trade. I think the way that it then gets distributed and what people hear, what people see, you know, what's posted at the, the top of the website, what goes above the fold is the part that's the issue right now. And I think that's what's influenced by.
Mike Allen [00:24:09]:
So it's all the editors.
Bryce Evans [00:24:11]:
Yeah, you know, it's a lot of, it's a lot of different factors, definitely, but it's definitely this chase for clicks, chase for eyeballs, and knowing that you get in this cycle, that once you start pushing, you know, one direction on the political landscape, you get more and more clicks from that side. So, you know, it just keeps going and going, going.
Mike Allen [00:24:31]:
Have you read Hate, Inc. No, I'm blanking on the author now. But it's about the monetization and the dichotomy of the political landscape in the United States after the, after the Berlin Wall fell, we no longer had the Russian menace to be our enemy. And the premise is that the powers that be realized that it's easier, it costs less, and it's more profitable Just to hate your neighbors. And so, you know, it's not like that there, there were these power players pulling the strings to create this. It's just that the feedback loop of rage bait equals engagement equals ad revenue is more effective. Hannity and Combs became the greatest thing ever in the 24 hour news cycle. Right.
Mike Allen [00:25:17]:
And it was all on just yelling at each other and how now there is an economy built on not trying to be fair and balanced. And down the middle.
Bryce Evans [00:25:26]:
Right.
Mike Allen [00:25:26]:
There's an economy built on creating a, an echo chamber to enrage your base against their neighbors.
Bryce Evans [00:25:36]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:25:36]:
Right. And divide for profit. Yeah. It's a pretty interesting read.
Bryce Evans [00:25:43]:
I'll have to check that out. I, I think that's very true in media. I think it's just even true day to day in, in our industry. You see it a lot between, you know, training organizations, coaching companies, vendors, things like that. In order to get somebody to like you, you have to turn someone else into the enemy or that, you know, we're absolute and right and just. And everybody else who doesn't agree with that is wrong. And I know it's not necessarily people's intentions, especially in this industry, to act that way and be that way, but there is this kind of issue of absolutism to what people try to say in that everything's black and white. Yeah.
Bryce Evans [00:26:19]:
And it's just not. And I know that in your conversations with people, you highlight that quite a lot and do a really good job with it. That's what we try to do too, is that there's so many different ways to do this and there are tweaks and adjustments that everyone has to make. Even if you follow the same processes and systems or one person's philosophies on this or that, you're still gonna have to tweak it to your own company, your own building, your own market, your own team. And everybody has to learn from each other in some ways. And most of what everybody does is, is similar enough to where we should be on this common ground. And it's more about, you know, who do you click with? How do you know? How is it explained to you that you understand it the best? How can we work in this way? How can I build my network of peers? And I know you're super involved in the industry and not just in associations, but in 20 groups and things like that. And having that group to talk to and bounce ideas off of.
Bryce Evans [00:27:15]:
I mean, you could have 20 awesome shops in the same room. And while they follow the same philosophies they do so many things differently and it's so valuable to hear those different perspectives.
Mike Allen [00:27:25]:
And you've got rockstar single location owners and you've got multi location owners and you've got Euro specialty shops and diesel shops and general repair shops and.
Bryce Evans [00:27:32]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:27:33]:
In rural markets and in major metros. And they all have good information and good ideas. Yeah, but, yeah, but I mean, to your point earlier, I'm learning as I try to, you know, grow the reach and impact of the podcast. Right. We can have really interesting, really thoughtful, nuanced conversations and I think they bring a lot of value and they get a little bit of engagement.
Bryce Evans [00:28:01]:
Right, Definitely.
Mike Allen [00:28:02]:
Or I can tell dick jokes or I can make rage fake comments.
Bryce Evans [00:28:07]:
Yep.
Mike Allen [00:28:07]:
Way more engagement. Right. So make people angry or make people laugh like children. I mean, and that's my sense of humor anyway, so it comes naturally to me.
Bryce Evans [00:28:16]:
Right, right.
Mike Allen [00:28:17]:
And you, and you grow way faster than you do from having measured, reasonable discourse with someone that maybe you.
Bryce Evans [00:28:25]:
Yes.
Mike Allen [00:28:26]:
So, yes, it's an uphill battle, man. I don't, I don't know if I should like just tilt against that 1 mil or just embrace it and understand what it is and try to throw in some tidbits along with the inappropriate humor.
Bryce Evans [00:28:40]:
Well, the best way to approach it, at least in my opinion, is to have those open, nuanced conversations and hold people accountable to those positions and opinions when, when you're talking them about it and you know, asking hard, being willing to ask those hard questions and not let somebody, you know, spout off in that, in that way, in that direction and, you know, what they do is perfect. Anyone else who doesn't agree is wrong. And, you know, this is the way to do it, or this is good, this is bad, is black, this is white, and really just challenge that thinking because I don't believe that. Well, I hope, I guess, that people are not doing a lot of these things intentionally. They're not saying these things intentionally. They're trying to help other people by sharing their ideas and their thoughts. I don't think they're trying to pit people against each other.
Mike Allen [00:29:23]:
I would hope the very large majority of people are good.
Bryce Evans [00:29:28]:
Yes. Yeah, I definitely believe that. And I think if we can have better conversations where people are willing to share their opinions and we're willing to listen to their opinions instead of just waiting for our turn to talk, I think that's where a lot of the change can happen and where we can have a bigger impact. And I think, you know, the approach of having those conversations as a Foundation of your content is what makes it impactful. If you're just trying to get a rise out of people so that people click on it to listen to the part where, you know, you rage, bait me, and I blow up on you, and they're like, whoa, what did he say? It's not going to help anybody. It's a few seconds of entertainment. They move on.
Mike Allen [00:30:03]:
What are your hot buttons that I can rage bait you?
Bryce Evans [00:30:08]:
I like to think that I'm pretty mellow and that it's pretty hard to get. Get a rise out of me. Apart from watching Bears games, I would say I'm pretty mellow.
Mike Allen [00:30:18]:
I'm a. I'm a huge Mitch Trubisky fan.
Bryce Evans [00:30:20]:
Oh, that. That'll get me going. Because. Yes, I'm from Chapel Hill. Right. Right.
Mike Allen [00:30:26]:
Yeah.
Bryce Evans [00:30:26]:
Yeah. Not a good pick as.
Mike Allen [00:30:29]:
As a trained journalist.
Bryce Evans [00:30:32]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:30:34]:
And, like, what type of interview prep do you put in to prepare yourself for the person you're going to be talking to to. To know how to ask insightful questions? Because I know that's a point of personal growth for me. I don't know. I don't do in prep. I just like, oh, let's see what we're going to talk about. I don't know.
Bryce Evans [00:30:50]:
Yeah. So it depends on the intention of the interview. So the interviews that we do, typically, we're trying to get information out of people, to get very tangible strategies for people. So usually what I do is I have a set list of goals for the interview that I might try to get this, this, and this from the person, and then I let the conversation go from there. And I know there are a lot of people that have, like, you can learn early on to, you know, plan out your questions and have these lists of questions you're going to ask. And I think you get too much in the mindset of running through your list of questions and having a conversation. You know, I think the way that people share more valuable information is if they feel like they're just talking to you, naturally I've done. God, I don't even know how many interviews over the years.
Bryce Evans [00:31:37]:
And the more strict I am with the questions that I have, the less organic the interview feels, which is probably obvious to people. But most people go in with a set list of questions, and I don't teach that. So I taught a journalism class for a while at the University of Minnesota, and I suggested to all the students to never come with a list of prepared questions, have a list of points you want to get to in the interview, and Topics you want them to cover, you want them to hit on this, you want them to hit on this, you want their opinion on this, you want their viewpoint on that. But don't let the questions dictate how it goes, let it kind of flow toward that. I think there is some easy ones you can start off with of how to get people going and how to get them talking. But for the most part it's more focused on the intent of what you're trying to get, not the questions you're trying to ask.
Mike Allen [00:32:25]:
So I have done a few different interviews for non industry publications where they were just wanting to talk to somebody in the automotive space. Sure. And almost without exception, when it's been outside of the industry, you can tell that the person doing the interview already has the article written and they're just asking the questions to get the few sound bites to reinforce what they've already decided to write. Feels like that would be specifically taught against in journalism school.
Bryce Evans [00:32:56]:
Yes.
Mike Allen [00:32:57]:
But for our listeners, if that happens, if they're, you know, the best shop in their town and the local news channel comes by and wants to do a story and it's obvious that they already know the narrative they're trying to tell and they're just trying to use you as a pawn in that story, how do you, how do you combat against that? You just say, you know what, thanks but no thanks, or are there certain things that folks can do to try to manage those situations more effectively?
Bryce Evans [00:33:25]:
Definitely. I think it's a matter of trust. If you've done interviews with a person before and you trust how it's turned out, then you're probably going to be fine. Most often than not. I don't think the vast majority of people doing those interviews have no ill intention in talking to somebody. They might have maybe the wrong intentions of trying to get their story done quicker than get the right information always. But I think it's very fair to always ask, you know, what, what's the story about? What do you plan to do? Who else have you talked to? What are some of the things that you've already heard from people for this story and ask for that information. The, the vast majority of news organizations aren't going to share any story.
Bryce Evans [00:34:04]:
Like they're not gonna share copy with you beforehand. They're not gonna show you the video clips and things like that. But if you can get enough that you can get a feel for what they're looking at and you can probably judge if it's something that you know is a, something that you might be perceived negatively in. Because it's a smear campaign against all these local businesses that are scamming people. And then all of a sudden they're gonna talk to you to check if you're doing it, but you don't want to be involved in that story. I don't believe that all publicity is good publicity. I think good publicity is good publicity. So I don't quite understand that saying, but especially as a small business owner, a medium sized business owner, I just don't see.
Bryce Evans [00:34:44]:
I think you can ask the questions up front to get a better feel for what the story might be so that you can protect yourself and. No. And be a little bit prepared too by the type of answer you want to give. Because if you know it's about XYZ and that's a touchy subject in your community, you should be prepared then to give answers that, that align with how you believe and feel about it, but that will not add fuel to fire. That will hopefully position you in a good way.
Mike Allen [00:35:10]:
Copy, copy. So. Oh my God. It's a perfect example. I'm gonna write this time down. 33 minutes and 45 seconds. Not listening to understand and hear, but listening to wait for my time to talk. I had a great question I wanted to ask you and I fucking lost it.
Mike Allen [00:35:32]:
But. It's gonna be profound. It was gonna be so fucking awesome.
Bryce Evans [00:35:39]:
I bet it was really good.
Mike Allen [00:35:41]:
It was super. I'm just, I'm fascinated by print media and journalism.
Bryce Evans [00:35:48]:
Yeah. In general. Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:35:49]:
And so just having you down here as a, as a hapless victim to my questioning, I'm not sure that it makes for valid content for my podcast or not, but we'll see.
Bryce Evans [00:35:59]:
No, I think it's great. I love print media as. I mean, I've spent my whole career in it. I do believe in the media moving forward. I know you asked about newspapers in general though. I. I think there's a big place for print for people because I do think we're in a society now where everything is digital. We're looking at screens all the time, we're listening to things all the time.
Bryce Evans [00:36:20]:
There is a moment where everybody needs to disconnect and look at something. And having an analog thing to look at, to hold, to feel and to interact with, is an experience that I think people long for today. And I don't know that the traditional models of magazines, we can, can withstand kind of everything that's going on in the marketplace. But I do think these higher end approaches to it, the enthusiast style publications, things that are building for more the experience of going through it rather than it being quick hitting and toss it aside like everything else in our lives today. I think there's a big place for it moving forward and I think that segment's probably going to grow.
Mike Allen [00:36:57]:
What makes me think of like National Geographic, you know, from 78 to 2005, my parents study was every issue in order alpha, you know, by day. And they had the leather, you know, slipcovers that you put them on with by year. And it's like, you know, that was something that you keep and pretty much every magazine now you just throw away. Done with it. Right. Yeah, I do have. I missed. I don't have episode.
Mike Allen [00:37:24]:
Episode issue one and two. Okay, there's the ones that I'm missing from my.
Bryce Evans [00:37:28]:
Yeah, we'll get you those. And if everybody, if anyone out there is a subscriber and is missing issues, we're happy to send them to you. We want people to have that complete set.
Mike Allen [00:37:36]:
The question that I blanked on a minute ago. Yeah, you talk to people across the automotive space and there's some pretty widely disparate opinions on how you should go to market and how you should operate. There's, you know, the ever present debate about relational based selling versus transactional based selling modeling. And you know, those are, you know, hot button terms. Nobody says yes, my model is transactional because no one wants. You're not allowed to say that, but you bet your ass there's some really successful transactional businesses out there.
Bryce Evans [00:38:08]:
Yes.
Mike Allen [00:38:09]:
And some coaches whose model flexes towards transactional more so than relational. How do you as a publication manager, that wide gap and sometimes you're sitting on talking to somebody and you're like, that feels dirty to me. I don't think that I would do business with you. How do you manage that feeling? Do you still just kind of, you know, give them their, their say and put it out there and let the, let the public decide or how does that work?
Bryce Evans [00:38:39]:
It's a great question. It depends on, on exactly how we're explaining the information and what it is.
Mike Allen [00:38:46]:
But.
Bryce Evans [00:38:49]:
What I try to do is hold people accountable to their opinions and how they're trying to say. And I try to ask the follow up questions and make them clarify. And if I say as a customer that doesn't feel great to me, I want them to explain to me why it's fine and I want that information from them and we can decide. We don't necessarily ever censor people's opinions. We don't try to push it aside we're not trying to say somebody's right or wrong.
Mike Allen [00:39:16]:
Yeah.
Bryce Evans [00:39:16]:
So we're not doing any of that. I will say if we, if we want information, though, that's going to be valuable and help people. So we try to focus more on, you know, maybe the nuts and bolts and the step 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of that transactional aspect of it. And maybe there, there are tips there for people to better sell within their relational operation, you know, and how they approach it. And there are takeaways still of times we try to not get into the debates necessarily back and forth of how to do it. And like you said, nobody is out there saying, we do a transactional model. That's how we focus. That's how we treat all of our customers.
Bryce Evans [00:39:53]:
No one's ever going to say that.
Mike Allen [00:39:54]:
Everybody's just a number.
Bryce Evans [00:39:56]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:39:57]:
So have you ever had an instance where initially, early on, in the process of getting to know something about an instructor or a coach or a business owner, and you're like, I don't feel great about this. But as you talk to them more, you learn more about it. You're like, oh, okay, that makes sense.
Bryce Evans [00:40:15]:
Definitely. I think that happens more often than the other direction. I do think there are times where, you know, it seems fishy or seems weird, and I'll make them explain it more and talk to them more in depth about it. And by the, by the end of the conversation, usually I understand the perspective they're coming from and how it can be valuable for them. Other people.
Mike Allen [00:40:31]:
Can you tell me about a time when you're like, no, dude, you're a crook.
Bryce Evans [00:40:37]:
Honestly, we have had times like that and I. I not gonna share details of them, but I, I've definitely the.
Mike Allen [00:40:45]:
Name of the business and the person.
Bryce Evans [00:40:48]:
Yeah, I mean, I've definitely had times over the years. Definitely, if we're spanning 13, 14 years here, a number of times where you start talking to people and like, things aren't adding up, the numbers don't make sense. The way they talk about things don't make sense, and they give some odd opinions about things. Luckily, it's pretty rare. Most of our sourcing comes through referrals. And, you know, one person that we have a lot of respect for recommending someone else that that person has a lot of respect for. And it's super rare that we find it to where people are that wrong about a person. It has happened, though, and we've had some where we're like, oh, man, I'm really glad we didn't release that or Oh, I wish we didn't release that.
Bryce Evans [00:41:32]:
Yeah. But luckily, I would say we still stand by the information that we were sharing because we're not putting somebody. We hope that all the people we put in our magazine that we put on our website are great human beings and good people and do everything with the utmost integrity. Not being able to personally hang out with them 24 hours a day, I can't vouch for that 100%. I can just do my best in kind of sleuthing that out and hoping that I'm somewhat accurate on it and then know that we're sharing the information about what they do, not necessarily always who they are as a person. We do get into that quite a bit with some people. But when, you know, when we have someone on our cover and we do feature stories and these more in depth personal pieces on people, I feel like we do enough reporting, talk to enough other people to have a good time, sense that, you know, this is probably a pretty good person and we can stand by them.
Mike Allen [00:42:24]:
So you started with 10 missions in 2012, you said, and so you're 13, almost 14 years into the automotive space. And the automotive landscape has changed significantly in that time frame. And I think from my perspective, one of the biggest things that's changed is this influx of private money and just the consolidation of the aftermarket. What's your take on that? Do you think that it's been good for the industry or do you think it's an opportunity or a threat? How do you view that outside money influx that we're seeing right now?
Bryce Evans [00:43:00]:
So I guess I'd start by saying that it's kind of one of those things that it simply is what it is. That's a trend that most industries are going today. So it was bound to happen in auto service once everyone realized the opportunity and the scope and scale and how many great businesses there are in auto service, both on the shop side and the vendor side? There's so many people doing so many good things. It was bound to happen that PE and venture capital was going to come in and start really trying to make an impact. And so I think that trend is going to be inevitable. I would say if we're going to look at this in a positive way and in a way that hopefully can strengthen everything is. I do think that that's allowed a lot of people to shift their mindset from being alone as an independent to being united as independent operations. And I.
Bryce Evans [00:43:49]:
I think that's something that's super strong about this industry, is the independent mindset of shop owners out there, whether they have one shop or 10 shops or 20 shops, they still, no matter how big they're getting, they still think of themselves as that independent operator. I think people are super prideful of that, as they should be. And it's a very cool industry with how many people have been successful being that way. And I think this influx of private equity coming in and gobbling up shops and, you know, consolidating, commoditizing and trying to commoditize an industry that, you know, is built on service and trust and that personal interaction, I think, has really galvanized a lot of people to, you know, stand up for what they believe in and showcase to their communities, to their marketplaces, you know, who they are and what they're about and why it's important, important to shop independent and why you should be going to an independent repair facility instead of going to a chain or going to this. This large conglomerate out there. And it's something I'm super passionate about, both from being in this industry for so long, but also now. I mean, that's state that I'm in. I'm a small independent business in an industry with huge, huge giants.
Bryce Evans [00:44:55]:
You know, I. I don't need to name names for everyone to just, you know, look at mastheads. I did not say that. I did not say that. But there are a lot of conglomerates in the media space. It is very rare to find a truly independent company. And I think that's something that really sets us apart, is that we're here for our mission and what we're trying to do for our audience and for the people reading this publication for this industry. And we want to be that resource for small businesses to be able to succeed and be able to stay independent.
Bryce Evans [00:45:25]:
And I think that that's the best part of what's happened recently in the industry with private equity, with venture capital, with all the consolidation going on that everybody sees is you have so many people standing by that and wanting to be independent, being proud that they're independent and wanting to stay that way.
Mike Allen [00:45:43]:
Leads me to my last couple of questions. What's your daily driver?
Bryce Evans [00:45:48]:
I drive a suburban Chevy. Suburban High four kids. So both our family cars are people.
Mike Allen [00:45:53]:
Embrace the minivan life.
Bryce Evans [00:45:54]:
Yeah, we have a minivan, too. So we have a Dodge Caravan and a Chevy Suburban.
Mike Allen [00:45:58]:
Okay, and where's home for you?
Bryce Evans [00:46:00]:
Minneapolis. Okay.
Mike Allen [00:46:02]:
Who maintains your vehicles for you?
Bryce Evans [00:46:05]:
Recently I've been going to BAM Automotive, which is a independent shop right next to our office. So am Bam Bam Exclamation. Point.
Mike Allen [00:46:14]:
Bam. Automotive.
Bryce Evans [00:46:15]:
Automotive.
Mike Allen [00:46:15]:
So we're gonna give them a shout out and tag them. Yeah.
Bryce Evans [00:46:18]:
And actually a funny story, too, is that Austin Lutz, who owns it, was my next door neighbor as a kid.
Mike Allen [00:46:24]:
There you go. Awesome. Good job, Bam. Keep being awesome. Thanks, man.
Bryce Evans [00:46:29]:
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.
Mike Allen [00:46:31]:
A lot of fun.
Bryce Evans [00:46:31]:
Yeah.
Mike Allen [00:46:32]:
Thanks for listening to Confessions of a Shop Owner, where we lay it all out. The good, the bad, and sometimes the super messed up. I'm your host, Mike Allen, here to remind you that even the pros screw it up sometimes. So why not laugh a little bit, learn a little bit, and maybe have another drink? You got a confession of your own or a topic you'd like me to cover? Or do you just want to let me know what an idiot I am? Email mikeonfessionsofashopowner.com or call and leave a message. The number 704 Confess. That's 704-266-3377. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to, like, subscribe or follow. Join us on this crazy journey that is shop ownership.
Mike Allen [00:47:08]:
I'll see you on the next episode. You know, I said just.