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Mattie on the Homefront is a podcast about a father and a son discovering their family. After finding wartime letters from my great-grandmother to my grandfather, I get to read them aloud to my dad, bringing together four generations of our family, week-by-week, in an almost daily look at life in the Twin Cities during WWII.
Is your phone off?
Steve Buetow:Everybody who calls me is here.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Notice how I tilted my head?
Hans Buetow:Yeah. Yeah. Amy, that was so good. You sound amazing.
Amy Kirkpatrick:You're going go on the road.
Steve Buetow:This is on the road. We're not in our normal studio.
Hans Buetow:This is on the road.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Coming to you live from the dining room.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. Hello. Hello, Hansel. Welcome to Mattie On
Hans Buetow:The Homefront. I'm Hans Buto. I am Mattie's great grandson.
Steve Buetow:And I am Hans's father and Mattie's grandson. So I'm the only one here who has met Mattie.
Hans Buetow:That's true. Mattie, who was on the homefront from 1942 to 1945, which is why we are reading the letters that she wrote to her son, to your dad, my grandfather, Ken, over the course of his time in the army during World War two. We have a really I'm so excited about today. I think today is gonna be so much fun. I'm so absolutely thrilled because we have, for the first time, a third voice besides our dumb voices.
Hans Buetow:She's here. She's wonderful. Amy, welcome to the show.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Why, thank you very much.
Hans Buetow:So, Amy, who are you to Mattie?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I am Steve's wife, and I've heard stories of Mattie. That's the extent that I know.
Hans Buetow:So that makes you Mattie's great no. Mattie's step grand
Steve Buetow:Step granddaughter.
Hans Buetow:Step granddaughter. Sure. Let's go with that. Well, we're thrilled to have you here. You are the first guest on the show, and it just I couldn't be more pleased that it's you.
Hans Buetow:I couldn't be more pleased about what we're gonna be talking about today. Today's letter's from 11/04/1942. Steve, do you wanna take us through and catch Amy up on kind of basically what's happening in Mattie and Ken's world
Steve Buetow:right now? Ken went into the army in August 1942. So we we're still not at a year into the war.
Hans Buetow:True. That's true. We're coming up
Steve Buetow:on it, but not quite. He was inducted into the military police. He was moved to Prince Rupert, Canada. It was important because the Japanese had attacked and occupied two of the Aleutian Islands, which were Alaska. And so they presumably could move up the island chains to Alaska, the and the mainland.
Steve Buetow:So the Japanese were when these letters were being written, were occupying Continental United States.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. And so what's Mattie up to at this point?
Steve Buetow:Mattie is quite busy with her normal social life, homemaker, husband, Matt, and they have been closing up the cabin. Yep. Cabin up on Big Sandy. Beginning to wrestle with rationing. Gasoline will start being rationed this month.
Steve Buetow:And her circle of relatives and friends, which she keeps very not gonna say close tabs on, but she's deeply engaged with.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. She's got quite a social community. Just all sorts of people in her world. She's just the center of things. They had a well, a month ago, they had a party.
Hans Buetow:They had twenty twenty seven people over, just like a community progressive dinner.
Steve Buetow:Yes. Right. Progressive dinner.
Hans Buetow:We're fine. We're starting to learn a little bit about how involved she is in in volunteer stuff. She's she's out in the community doing a bunch of things. She's constantly calling people. She's constantly running into people.
Hans Buetow:She's constantly talking to people. Right.
Steve Buetow:So, yeah, friends, relatives. So
Hans Buetow:I'm very excited about this letter. This is a bit of a special letter, and there's a special reason that we have Amy on today. First of all, we love her, and we think she's fantastic. And we're just so excited to have another voice to balance us out. But why don't we go ahead and give you, Amy, the honor of go ahead and take a look at the envelope and tell us a little bit about what you see.
Amy Kirkpatrick:K. It's addressed to private Kenneth Buteau, and it has a number for him. And APO 997830EighthMPCoSeattleWashington. And it's a lightweight gray envelope with a blue interior and two stamps that say win the war.
Hans Buetow:I mean
Amy Kirkpatrick:3¢ each.
Hans Buetow:So this one, yeah, it's November 4 dated 6PM. Five maybe that might be a five. Five or 6PM in the evening. November 4 is a Wednesday in 1942. We just heard from Mattie Sunday on the first.
Hans Buetow:This one starts as they always start, my darling Kenneth. We received your lovely letter yesterday just as I was on my way downtown. In fact, I waited for the mail as I always do, and I was pleasantly surprised as I wasn't positive that I would get a letter. You have been wonderful in writing. Poor dad is beside himself.
Hans Buetow:We haven't heard from Bud since the October 6 when he wrote Homefront $15.
Steve Buetow:Bud is Ken's stepbrother. It's Matt's. Matt and Mattie married to each other. They each have a son who are about the same age, both in the military. Bud is in the marines.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And do they know where he's stationed?
Hans Buetow:I don't think that they do yet.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. I don't think we've heard.
Hans Buetow:And they haven't heard anything from him apparently since the October 6. So that's almost a month. She says that today, I contacted the Red Cross as I dread to think of dad getting in tonight without word from him yet. Of course, I'm a great deal more optimistic than dad. I always say no news is good news because when something unusual does happen, one usually hears about it quickly enough.
Hans Buetow:You have certainly made me very happy in writing the way that you have. I'm so proud of you. So she continues with a little bit more family news, friend news more accurately, but this is the first glimpse that we're gonna get into the war experiences from Chuck.
Steve Buetow:Chuck Gertzen. Chuck Gertzen. Chuck Gertzen was a a close friend of my father's. He was my father's best man when he was married six years hence.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Mhmm.
Steve Buetow:And I believe they went to high school together. Okay. Because Mattie knows the Gertzen's. They may be even in the same church. Yeah.
Steve Buetow:I just remember the mustaches that that mister Gertson had. He had a lot of devices for entertaining young children. Yeah. I met him once or twice. We could write backwards and and so on.
Steve Buetow:But I think they were both in art school.
Hans Buetow:Now, Amy, you had people who you had folks who served in World War two. Right?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yes. My father served, and he came in right at the end of the war.
Hans Buetow:Okay. So he so in '42, he would not have yet been in?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right. He was still in school.
Hans Buetow:Okay. Because he was a little bit younger. Right? Is that right? Yeah.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. And what did he do when he was in the army?
Amy Kirkpatrick:He played in the army band at Fort Bliss.
Steve Buetow:What did he play?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Flute and piccolo.
Hans Buetow:Oh, piccolo's hard.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And it's really important for that one particular what was the name of that?
Steve Buetow:Stars and Stripes.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Stars and Stripes.
Hans Buetow:It's true. That's a big job. Oh, yes.
Amy Kirkpatrick:He told the story of being told by the conductor, don't mess this up, Kirkpatrick.
Hans Buetow:Don't mess this up. You know, they probably say that a lot in the army. Right? So he was a musician then before then, obviously going into
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. He actually graduated from high school early so he could enlist.
Hans Buetow:He was so then when he enlisted, how old was he, do you think?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I assume it's 17 or 18.
Hans Buetow:Well, we know a little bit about what Ken's up to. We're about to learn what Chuck is up to because Mattie says, missus Gertzen had had another letter from Chuck and said he was so glad you were in the army. Poor Chuck is having quite a day of it. He works from eighteen to twenty hours a day climbing at an average of 14 to 16 coconut trees, stringing wires, and walking about 10 miles a day. Although he said so far his appetite hasn't failed him.
Hans Buetow:He was keeping up quite well. He had had nine fried eggs and toast and coffee that morning. Is he in the South Pacific? I think he's a marine.
Steve Buetow:Okay. And the battle of Guadalcanal is going on and has been going on for months.
Hans Buetow:So the Solomon Islands, I don't know if he's there or just somewhere in the Solomon Islands, but Okay. The gateway to Australia and the gateway to a bunch of the Pacific is what they're fighting over, and not doing great at. I'm also so happy that you were to church and partook of communion, she says. Now I feel much better that I definitely know where you are. This indicates that he actually has is able to confirm.
Steve Buetow:That he is in Prince Rupert.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. It was a big sense of mystery for three weeks of where he was. Her trying to guess, reading maps.
Steve Buetow:And I knew the whole time. And you because because he told me.
Hans Buetow:Because he told you. She has been concerned about his church going, and there is a Lutheran church apparently in Prince Rupert that he's able to go to. I'm so sorry you lost your mirror, she says. The photo can be replaced, but that was a very nice mirror and belongs to your case. Yes, parentheses, I must have had a premonition.
Hans Buetow:I brought the camera back from the lake when we closed up. We will have a snap taken very shortly.
Steve Buetow:And the camera lives at the lake. That's a I suppose that's the way it worked at that time. The camera. It's more scenic. That's true.
Steve Buetow:More more guests, more fish. What kind of camera would that
Hans Buetow:have been? Nineteen forty two? Would that have been like a brownie?
Steve Buetow:A Kodak brownie. No reflex. You'd look through the viewfinder, and the shutter would be on the side of it. You put your back to the sunshine to
Hans Buetow:have
Steve Buetow:rolls that you would could advance to a little box of a camera Mhmm. Is my guess. Mhmm. No flash. Need good light.
Amy Kirkpatrick:I love that they called it she called it a snap. A snap. Not not a we'll send you a picture. We'll send you an image of us. We'll we'll send you a snap.
Hans Buetow:A snap. Which end up I love that he's asking for a photo of them. Yeah. Well, she says, I'm planning on seeing Jin on Saturday if she hasn't forgotten our long ago date. I'm sure she hasn't.
Hans Buetow:So Jin is Ken's fiance. At some point.
Steve Buetow:Yes. And presumably now. We we have not heard that confirmed, but Ken was engaged to a woman named Virginia. Yep. Yep.
Steve Buetow:Not my mom.
Hans Buetow:Your mom's not in the picture in any way.
Steve Buetow:At all. Not in not at Whisper. Nope. Nope. Not for not at all.
Steve Buetow:Five years?
Hans Buetow:Yeah. So Mattie concludes this part by saying, did I tell you we only, the other day, got a card from the government telling us of your safe arrival? I'm putting that in my scrapbook also.
Steve Buetow:Which Oh, we don't have that scrapbook.
Hans Buetow:We did. Yeah. I wish we had our scrapbook.
Steve Buetow:I never saw the scrapbook.
Hans Buetow:Well, we're to the part that I'm so excited about. What she's gonna do
Steve Buetow:is go to MLR. MLR is ML Rothschild, which is a clothing store in downtown.
Hans Buetow:It's where Ken used to work, apparently. Yeah. So Ken was a, we think, a sales clerk of some sort
Steve Buetow:That was our guest.
Hans Buetow:There. So she says, I saw some of the girls at MLRs yesterday. Had quite a visit with missus Flu. Her husband enlisted and is a lieutenant. I bought my suit from her.
Hans Buetow:Everyone speaks so very highly of you. Oh. I'm sort of a chiseler, she says. I looked at a very good looking dress yesterday, and I went home and copied it. I am attaching swatches.
Hans Buetow:So here's what we have as our first big surprise for this. So included in this letter in the envelope are two scraps, and they literally are scraps. They're just tiny. It looks like one side's frayed, one side's cut. I'm gonna hand them to Amy and have her tell you what do we have.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Alright. We have a beautiful plum color and a rosy pink. And the swatches themselves are maybe a half inch wide by two inches long, quite small. It's woven, and it's rather lightweight. It might be a lightweight wool blend.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Okay. I know that another type of fabric that was quite common was rayon. Yeah. And so maybe it's a blend.
Hans Buetow:Rayon already in at this point. Mhmm. I think of rayon as being a much later thing, but it's they're already getting to rayon
Amy Kirkpatrick:in the forties. Rayon was invented late in the eighteen hundreds.
Hans Buetow:Get out of town. And It sounds so atomic. It's
Steve Buetow:so It's true. At that height, that era. Yeah. Woo.
Hans Buetow:Really? The late eighteenth. Okay.
Steve Buetow:It's it's cellulose based.
Hans Buetow:Right. Okay.
Amy Kirkpatrick:So it's wood based
Steve Buetow:Okay.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And became more popular in the early nineteen hundreds. And when they started to ration wool and silk, a lot of people were wearing viscose and rayon. Viscose? Which is another form of
Steve Buetow:wood pulp. And rayon's quite shiny. Aloha shirts are usually rayon. Are rayon. Okay.
Steve Buetow:Okay. What do you
Hans Buetow:think about those two together? Because, obviously, she's looking for feedback because her next line is, how do you like the combination? So, Amy, how do we like the combination?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I love
Hans Buetow:that combination. It's like a purple a purple and a dark pink.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. But it's it's a very muted
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. Not a vivid scarlet red. Yeah. No. No.
Amy Kirkpatrick:No. Colors that were quite common were more muted and darker. There were limited dyes at the time. Also, just the choice of more serious colors. And then the contrast to that was very red, white, and blue was another color trend.
Hans Buetow:Oh, I mean So I can imagine why.
Steve Buetow:Yep. It it's also November, autumn. Mhmm. And the just the the time of year that the clothing would tend to color down a bit.
Hans Buetow:Were they still doing seasons like that of the winter line and an an autumn line? I think of that era as being, like, your wardrobe is much thinner than the wardrobe that we think of with fast fashion and the accessibility of clothing now. Do you have a sense of what the size of people's wardrobes were and how often they switched stuff? Well, actually, were discouraged from switching stuff.
Amy Kirkpatrick:It was in 1942 in April that the war production board created a limitation for manufacturers of clothing Oh. In order to lower the volume of fabric that was needed. And they put a fellow in charge of it named Stanley Marcus, as in Neiman Marcus, was the fellow put in charge of reducing the national volume of fabric by 15%.
Hans Buetow:Get out of town.
Steve Buetow:So this was a was this
Hans Buetow:a government position that he
Amy Kirkpatrick:was put in? Yeah. Government way of making manufacturers change how they created clothing. Yeah. And they wanted more garments out of less material.
Steve Buetow:Mhmm.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And they also wanted to prevent obsolescence. So he discouraged the idea that women should buy by the season or, you know, change up a hemline and now you have to buy a new skirt. Yeah. Yeah. But what I found really interesting was a whole series of pictures from Life Magazine in 1942 Yeah.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Showing you how women would now have to limit the number of pleats in their skirts.
Hans Buetow:Really?
Amy Kirkpatrick:They could not have cuffs. Their outfits could have one pocket, not more than one pocket. But you could have pretend pockets by sewing extra seams to make it look like it's a pocket. Right. There's this wonderful picture of two white blouses, one with a big billowy sleeve Oh.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And the other with a much more slender sleeve and no cuff.
Hans Buetow:It you've handed me a picture here, and it's literally two women standing front to back, their hands in their pockets both in the same way, showing off the cut of the sleeve and how different the and one is this billowy piratey thing. And then one is a much slimmer, sleeker thing, and you can tell just at a glance how much less fabric there is.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yes. And the way Life Magazine describes it, blouses like the one on the left will be illegal if cut after June 19. So illegal.
Hans Buetow:Is that for so this is my question. You're not allowed to have like, you you have a limit on the number of pleats. You can't do hems in a certain way. Could you get
Amy Kirkpatrick:The manufacturers could actually have penalties, stiff penalties, if they did not follow these.
Hans Buetow:Would individuals have gotten the same penalties?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I don't think individual home sewist Yeah. Would. Yeah. But she would buy a pattern that would have a bond of guarantee printed on the pattern. And it would say conforms exactly to the standard of measurement approved by the US Department of Commerce.
Hans Buetow:Wow. Incredible.
Steve Buetow:Incredible. So fairly early on in the war effort, knew that fabric
Amy Kirkpatrick:was an important commodity. Right. Wool was limited. Of course, silk for parachutes.
Hans Buetow:Parachutes. Yeah.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Nylon, of course. And so a lot of fabric were blends and cotton, and then, like I said, the the viscose or the rayon.
Hans Buetow:So let me read you a little bit. I'm gonna pause you, Amy, and I'm gonna read you a little bit more of a letter because it it it speaks to exactly kind of what you're saying here. So they are wearing so many contrasting combinations this year. So she this is a dress that she saw. The price was $19.95, and I can make it for six.
Steve Buetow:Oh, excellent.
Hans Buetow:She says tomorrow night, I'm having a form of myself made over in Minneapolis. That will make it so much easier to do my own fitting. I can also makeover things if I can fit them on a form. I enjoy sewing, so I might as well save the money. I hope you like hope you will like my three piece suit of covert cloth, like your top coat.
Hans Buetow:Basically, she's she's stealing the pattern. She's like, I like that dress. Right. I can make it for a third of the money.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And has she mentioned that she's a seamstress before? No.
Hans Buetow:Not meaningfully. I don't know. To me, to be able to see something at a store, clock it, go, yep, Go home and be able to replicate it is that's an advanced level of doing this sort of work.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. Obviously, she's been doing a lot of sewing already. Yeah. At the beginning of the war, about 50% of women knew how to sew. And by the end of the war, it was 82.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Wow. So it was a real encouragement because it was the idea that you were helping win the war. Yeah. Sew for victory was
Hans Buetow:Sew for victory.
Amy Kirkpatrick:A government initiative. And the Red Cross put millions into helping women learn how to sew. Really? The Red Cross? The Red and they wanted women to, you know, knit socks and
Steve Buetow:That's right.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Sew quilts, different things for
Hans Buetow:the war effort. 50% is a surprising number to me at the beginning of the war knowing how to sew. At that time period, I would just assume assume, especially coming out of the depression, that you would have an older and a younger population both very dedicated to sewing and being able to do things at home. So fifty is actually a surprising number to start the war with.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Well, I think ready to wear was more new and popular and could be done pretty economically if sown in mass quantities.
Hans Buetow:So mass production I mean, this is the Neiman Marcus of
Steve Buetow:it all.
Hans Buetow:Right? This mass production is coming. You've got you've got your your MLRs. Yes. You've got your your Dayton's.
Hans Buetow:You've got your or your it would've been Hudson's at that point, probably.
Steve Buetow:Right. But there's there's a lot of manufacturing in the South Mhmm. And and sewing. All sorts of mills producing
Hans Buetow:Yeah.
Steve Buetow:Ready to wear. Okay.
Hans Buetow:So in terms of style of things, I'd love to be able to imagine a little bit more of, like, what's Mattie wearing? Like, what what do you think what's a reasonable supposition of what this dress may have looked like in broad strokes?
Steve Buetow:50 year old mom of a soldier.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Probably a shirt dress where it's a skirt at the bottom and the buttons from the waist up was really common.
Steve Buetow:Oh, okay. So it's one piece. It's a dress.
Amy Kirkpatrick:It's a dress. But it doesn't button all the way down.
Steve Buetow:Okay.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Two piece things have become more popular, a blouse and a skirt, slacks, because so many women were now working outside of the home. One in every four married women worked outside the home.
Steve Buetow:Wow.
Amy Kirkpatrick:There's another image I found here that shows the war fashions, the wrong way to dress with loose hair, open collar, rings, necklaces, all these things that could be cotton machinery if she were Oh, yes. And then the right way serious problem.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. Really is a serious problem.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And the woman on the right is labeled the right way for feminine safety. And she has her hair back in a snood and Snood. Very simple coat jacket and sleek pants. And another great direction that maybe that dress could have gone that she made for herself was a wraparound dress. Oh.
Amy Kirkpatrick:That's become more popular. And a fashion designer named Claire McCargill, kind of known as inventing American sportswear, did a lot with jersey, seersucker, jean material, unusual at the time. Yeah. She designed a dress called the popover dress.
Hans Buetow:Oh, I like it.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And there was a challenge to do a dress that you could do your housework in and then go out in the evening.
Hans Buetow:Without having to change. Right.
Amy Kirkpatrick:So this dress is known for being a house dress, a dressing gown, a swimsuit cover up, or a party dress, sewn for only $6.95.
Steve Buetow:Which is right right in the price.
Hans Buetow:Tracks for what Mattie's doing.
Steve Buetow:Yes.
Hans Buetow:Yep. Oh, so we're in the right zone. So, yeah, how would you describe the look of this? So we're we're waists are pretty high at this point, right, in the in the forties, it looks like?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yep. And it's got a button closure for the skirt. It's a wraparound front.
Hans Buetow:Mhmm.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Zippers were also very limited during World War two. And she liked the challenge of designing without a zipper. So it's got a button from the side going from the waist up to the collar.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. And is this style of, like, a more fitted slimmer waist and then a billowier, boxier, more flowy extremities, was that more popular at the time?
Amy Kirkpatrick:As long as you didn't use a lot of fabric. The diameter at the hem could only be a 175 inches.
Hans Buetow:Okay.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Whereas a more full skirt that you'd see in the, you know, early fifties might be 350, twice as much fabric.
Hans Buetow:Woah. Okay. So that'd be like like the poodle skirts or, like like or in the early fifties, like the ones that, you know
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right. You could twirl around in.
Hans Buetow:Twirl around in, and they, yeah, go every yeah. That's true. You're not seeing a lot of those twirly sorts of dresses in this era.
Amy Kirkpatrick:You can't. It's illegal.
Hans Buetow:This is totally changing the way that I'm gonna watch movies of the time.
Steve Buetow:Oh, of course.
Hans Buetow:Yes. Yes. You're right. The cloth it's illegal. So then I'm I mean, I'm guessing that then manufacturers would shift.
Hans Buetow:I'm guessing then that you would have to what became cool, like, you have a war effort driving rules to shift manufacturing, and then the culture of what's cool and and and what people want to look like then has to shift to accommodate all of those non aesthetic factors. So, like, was there do you have any sense if there's a struggle for people to, like, enjoy looking this way?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I think military clothing was such an inspiration and so admired that the men and women in in uniform were seen as strong, appealing, vivacious. Who wouldn't wanna be like like that? And so details within the women's fashion would also be changing to have a more military vibe. You know? The broader shoulders.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Okay. Oh, of course. Yeah. The use of khaki colors and olive greens.
Hans Buetow:Her her camo three piece suit that she's talking about. Her co covert cloth, three piece suits, just like your top coat. That's fascinating.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. So I think women could be embracing this because it's patriotic.
Hans Buetow:Yeah.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And I But it's
Steve Buetow:a handsome cut. Oh. Yeah. The slim waist, the skirt is is beautiful, the proportions are great.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. There's a wonderful simplicity about it. Yes.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. I mean, those uniforms are some of the best looking uniforms that have ever been made. World War two dress uniforms are just fantastic. I mean, I really like the other ones too. Like, the the Ike jacket is fantastic.
Hans Buetow:The like, there's some really great
Steve Buetow:Yeah.
Hans Buetow:Great uniforms of that time period.
Steve Buetow:Mhmm.
Hans Buetow:And so I hadn't thought about how much it directly would have filtered down into the way that civilians were dressing, but especially with those restrictions on manufacturing, of course, it would have. When these women were being encouraged to learn how to sew and learn how to do things, the the idea was that a person could conserve more resources making something themselves than they could buying something from a machine.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right. Yeah. There were pamphlets that would be sent out called make and mend. And in there, it actually instructed you on how to make a woman's outfit from old men's clothing or clothing for kids, upcycle and recycle.
Hans Buetow:So, like, you take your husband's wardrobe, which is just sitting there and is now might even be a few years out of fashion, and you could just repurpose all those flannels or all those I don't I don't know what they would do. Those all those wool suits, all those whatevers, right, that they would have
Amy Kirkpatrick:had.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. And you repurpose them.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Recut a blazer.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. A top coat would be a rich source of pretty much flat shapeless Mhmm. Fabric. Yeah. Right.
Hans Buetow:Because you were mentioning slacks earlier, but women are still very much in a nonwork environment wearing dresses at this point. Right.
Steve Buetow:Mhmm.
Hans Buetow:So slacks hadn't yet come into more casual fashion for women at this point. So they're not gonna be repurposing their husband's slacks into a pair for themselves, for example.
Amy Kirkpatrick:I think that is coming, especially with women working in the factories. Pants are becoming more popular there, and they're also wearing what's called playsuits.
Steve Buetow:So
Amy Kirkpatrick:summertime shorts and pants.
Hans Buetow:Which makes me think about immediately how much skin they're showing in these. And we're still they're still fairly modest at this point. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Hans Buetow:So hemlines are definitely knees is what I always think of this era as a right around the knees usually. Mhmm. Give or take a little bit. There's often half to three quarter length. You're not really showing upper arms a whole lot.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right? Right. There'd be some sort of little cap sleeve, typically. Although I did come across one article that said the beginning of a bare midriff in bikinis was coming on with the excuse of saving fabric.
Steve Buetow:It does. I had to.
Hans Buetow:That's illegal. It's those full up.
Amy Kirkpatrick:I said bikini, but, you know, you still have what's basically a a two piece suit Yes. With a halter top Yeah. That just might show a little midriff.
British Pathe:In spite of the war, the bathing season has come round again, and some of London's leading mannequins drop in to tell us just what will be worn by the girl who likes to make her dip a frolic of foam and fashion. Well to the front is the model without a back. And although wartime has restricted the use of wool, there are plenty of suits in artificial silk and satin. They fit snugly and dry quickly, that is if you get them wet. Most of the designs, unlike the girls, are bold and flowers are a first favourite.
British Pathe:One piece and two piece suits are pretty well evenly divided in popularity, and two piece suits are divided anyhow. For originality of design, brightness of decoration, and sheer all round attractiveness, this year's model certainly wants a beating. Very tasteful. Very neat.
Hans Buetow:There's one other thing in in what she wrote, Amy, that I wanted to ask you about before we moved on, which is she's having a form made of herself. I feel like I kinda feel like I know what that means, but will you help me understand what that means?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yes. You know, one of the things I came across was the Singer form made with a special new plastic material, is how they phrase it, that becomes pliable with boiling water. And this little article says that the the Singer form, you'll get the exact fit without try ons, and you'll be through your work in half the time. And the picture, a woman is wearing what looks like a how you describe it, Steve?
Steve Buetow:It is skintight. And so she it's kinda like a wet T shirt competition.
Hans Buetow:This sounds racy. It's been handed to me now. That is skin tight. It looks like a wet T shirt competition. No.
Hans Buetow:It looks like, it looks almost burlap y or leathered, maybe, that is, like, adhering to her form and being shaped to be her.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And the color, even though this is a black and white picture, seems like it's craft paper or some kind of I've seen full color vintage forms online, and they are all brown. And one person talked about them being about as thick as a double weight milk jug. So you
Steve Buetow:could put
Amy Kirkpatrick:pins through it. Yep. Of course, want them to through. Unlike forms we have, which tend to have a little more padding or something.
Steve Buetow:Okay.
Amy Kirkpatrick:So she might have gotten one from the singer company. Yeah. And a attendant of some sort would have applied this, and it would have hardened. And then they would take the form off and put it on a base.
Hans Buetow:Because it's almost like making making paper mache. Yeah. If you do mache. Yeah.
Amy Kirkpatrick:DIY. Yeah. That's that's basically what you do.
Hans Buetow:It means that whether you can do it in half the time without with half the material or whatever it said there. So the idea is since it is you, you can just shape things directly on it, or it's at least got your measurements. You can shape things directly on it, and you can skip some steps.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Right. Mhmm. Because a standard way of creating from a pattern is to make a muslin dummy garment. Okay. And find that, oh, I should really have a wider waist here.
Amy Kirkpatrick:I should take the shoulders in. And if you were to drape it on a form, you could avoid that. Because that's telling you right there before you even cut it out what size you are.
Hans Buetow:If they're saving all this muslin, what do you think the muslin's going to? What part of the war effort is muslin? Cotton. Is it? Is that what it is?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. Yeah. You could use old bedsheets or
Hans Buetow:Okay. Yeah. So I bet that would make a difference, actually. Yeah. Yep.
Hans Buetow:And so her getting a form makes sense for a woman of her age at that time doing the level of work that she's doing. It's actually maybe a little surprising she hasn't already had one. Maybe. Yeah. Have no sense.
Hans Buetow:Do you have any sense of how much they cost to make?
Amy Kirkpatrick:In today's dollars, a one DIY site, you know, said $20.
Steve Buetow:Oh, that's doable.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Oh, yeah. If you were to buy one today, it would be between 600 and 1,000.
Hans Buetow:Okay. So it's an investment, but, like, if you're doing apparently the kind of work that she's doing and the volume she's doing it, then it it is worth it.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Mhmm.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. How fascinating. Okay. She's gonna continue with a couple of things that I wanna ask you about. So I wanna read you a little bit more of the letter and get your thoughts on it.
Hans Buetow:Okay? So she says, Monday, I started housecleaning. So I'm in the thick of it, finishing our room today, and I will get to your room tomorrow. This afternoon, the Darling Cleaners is to pick up the living and dining room curtains. So Darling Cleaners is in all caps.
Hans Buetow:So that's a company that comes in to take her curtains away. So she says, take the living room and dining room curtains. I took them down this morning. I am entertaining my circle on the eighteenth of this month. Circle with a capital c.
Steve Buetow:Circle. Ladies' Aid.
Hans Buetow:Ladies' Aid Circle.
Steve Buetow:Ladies' Aid Circle. Okay. Might even be a sewing circle. There's a number of different Sure.
Hans Buetow:So she's got it's the fourth today, and she's got until the eighteenth. Okay. That's that's good. She's planning ahead. So I must have everything in tip top shape.
Hans Buetow:Tonight, dad comes in, and I'm gonna meet Georgine and go to Minneapolis a little early. Do we have any idea, dad, who Georgine
Steve Buetow:is? It's a familiar name, but I can't place where
Hans Buetow:it I'm guessing a friend. Okay. So she's going to Minneapolis a little early. I am mailing a few hankies to Florence for her birthday, which is Friday, and I wanna mail this letter also on my way to Minneapolis. Florence is Mattie's Daughter-in-law.
Hans Buetow:Daughter-in-law. Mattie's eldest son, Wes, Ken's older brother. His wife is Florence. Florence is not well liked, least by Mattie. But gets a birthday present, so that's nice.
Hans Buetow:But doesn't get it delivered, she gets it mailed.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Is she in town?
Hans Buetow:Oh, yeah.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. Okay.
Hans Buetow:So here we go. I'm also picking up my brown hat. I had Glad trim it over. I'm having plumes of four different colors put on it. So Glad is the Minneapolis friend.
Steve Buetow:Oh, that's right.
Hans Buetow:Yep. Gladys over in Chicago Avenue. Yep. Let's talk about a brown hat with four plumes of different colors on it, Amy.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Oh, doesn't that sound delightful? And hats are one thing that were not regulated. Oh. Hats and accessories. And so it was known that women would just go all out with their hats.
Amy Kirkpatrick:There
Hans Buetow:that makes so much sense then.
Steve Buetow:It does make a lot of sense because hats in movies are a big deal. Yep. Yep. Lots of hats. Right.
Hans Buetow:And and everybody's wearing hats. Like, men are definitely all wearing hats at this point in the forties. Yeah. Women are mostly wearing hats or fascinators or something in their hair when going out. Right?
Steve Buetow:Mhmm.
Hans Buetow:Yep. Okay. What else do you hear in that about hats with plumes of four colors? I just can't get over it.
Amy Kirkpatrick:And there must be milliners
Steve Buetow:Of course.
Amy Kirkpatrick:In Downtown Minneapolis that you can go to. Oh. That was something my mom wanted to be.
Steve Buetow:A milliner?
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yes.
Steve Buetow:Okay. Yes. I can imagine your mom being a milliner. Why do you say that? Oh, she loved putting things together.
Steve Buetow:Fashion was a huge, huge thing to her, and hats must have meant a lot. Was she a redhead?
Amy Kirkpatrick:No. That came from my dad's side. Okay.
Hans Buetow:Well, Mattie continues here. So she says she's having plumes of four different four different colors put in. She doesn't say four different plumes. She doesn't say four plumes. She says four different colors of plumes.
Hans Buetow:Oh, that's right. She follows that up by saying, everything is very colorful this winter. I guess they feel we need to be cheered up a bit. Dresses are extremely fancy with all sorts of cheap Spangles on them and all very skimpy.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Oh. Oh.
Hans Buetow:How to tell me about that. Does that does that feel like this this does not what she's saying does not feel like the sort of pictures you've shown me.
Amy Kirkpatrick:That's true. Although we kinda need
Steve Buetow:to know what preceded these, because in some ways, these are very they they're very form fitting. Okay. And so if they were frumpier or bigger, then she would think skimpy. And skimpy I mean, narrower sleeves is skimpier sleeves.
Hans Buetow:You know what? That's a fair point.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. I think just the the shape of the dresses themselves Yeah. Don't have the volume that she might be used to.
Hans Buetow:Yeah. So skimpy doesn't mean revealing Correct. Necessarily the same way, but because it's illegal, less fabric. Because it's patriotic.
Steve Buetow:Less fabric.
Hans Buetow:Sorry. That's right. It's because it's patriotic. Good job, Mattie. Way to way to idea.
Hans Buetow:Cheap Spangles is interesting. What do think she means
Amy Kirkpatrick:by cheap Spangles? You know, that was another thing that wasn't regulated were sequins. And there was a fellow who, Norman Norell, considered one of the greatest designers of the twentieth century, began his career doing costumes in Hollywood, and then went on to use unrationed sequins to add sparkles to his sheath dresses. So they're dresses that are simply cut but then have sequins added.
Hans Buetow:So they'd be skimpy with a lot of cheap Spangles on them. And they would be in. And they would be so in. Fancy.
Steve Buetow:That's true. Even sequins are are cheap. Wow. And they're shiny.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that might seem like something so far away from what Which
Steve Buetow:she's used to.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Acceptable. Yeah. The what's acceptable. And people still want their dresses to be special. And you see more embroidery up the lapels or around the pockets, ways of making that dress your own.
Hans Buetow:When she says everything is very colorful this winter, you're saying that they're being encouraged to keep things a little bit longer. We have these two colors here, this purple and this pink, that were included. I would call these very colorful. Especially together. And especially together.
Hans Buetow:Does this match up this very colorful, does it match up to your your image of what was in style at, you know, kind of this later 1942 era?
Amy Kirkpatrick:You know, there are different color palettes. You might call the the army drabs greens one kind of palette. Another one might be playing off of marines, and that could be more blues. All different shades of blues were popular at the time. There were brights, especially in the summertime, that really played up the red, white, and blue as well.
Amy Kirkpatrick:But one thing I read was encouraging women to have color when they could, especially bright red lipstick to keep up morale.
Hans Buetow:Oh, that tracks. My reference is the movies. Right?
Steve Buetow:This is
Hans Buetow:these are
Amy Kirkpatrick:the a lot
Hans Buetow:of the images that I have are either movies or I mean, there are images from Yeah. From the time. Absolutely.
Steve Buetow:And you can't tell what color the costumes are, but you can see in the movies that they have lipstick.
Amy Kirkpatrick:Bold lipstick.
Hans Buetow:Yes. A bold lip. Absolutely. A thick bold lip. Yeah.
Hans Buetow:Wide. Absolutely. Yeah. It's not the daintier thing of the thirties. You know, the the it was the angel's butt or whatever it is.
Hans Buetow:What is it? Whatever it's called.
Amy Kirkpatrick:I thought it was Cubi doll.
Hans Buetow:There you go. There you go. This is a very full lip that we're talking about in the '4 in the forties, especially later in the forties. So, Mattie, when she talks about this dress that she's going to she's a chiseler, which I'm there's that's gotta be a rude thing to say. I can't even imagine what it means.
Hans Buetow:She's talking about being inspired, but where's the inspiration? Like, where are people finding out about these sorts of fashions? Where's the inspiration for this stuff coming from? How are they figuring out how to incorporate all these rules into what they're doing?
Amy Kirkpatrick:I'm sure they look to the movies. Rita Hayworth, Betty Grable. And for the home sewist, there were patterns called Hollywood patterns. And they had images of the starlet on the cover of the pattern, and you could sew what she had worn in a particular movie. Or it might not say a particular movie, but it's just in her kind of style.
Hans Buetow:Yes. And I'm sure they would have been very styled to be have a particular look for themselves. Right. Well, it's interesting you bring up movies because it's actually where Mattie pivots to. Because she literally after yelling at things for being cheap Spangles and Skimpy, her next line is, we haven't seen a movie for a long time.
Hans Buetow:I've heard too that Holiday Inn is very good. Viv was mentioning it. Viv is her stepdaughter. I haven't wanted to see any war pictures. As goodness knows, we get plenty of that over the radio, the newspapers, and most of all, an empty house.
Hans Buetow:What was the movie scene like? '19 November 1942, obviously, Inn.
Steve Buetow:Yes. Holiday Inn was there. There were very few or no military movies. Really? Yes.
Steve Buetow:It it's really too early. It's less than a year that since the war has started. Think about Americans or those patriotic movies where the soldiers are marching off
Hans Buetow:Definitely.
Steve Buetow:Sans of Iwo Jima. Yep. Just one tragedy after another, and and and it's all very patriotic, but that's not happening. Although within two weeks of this letter, Casablanca will premiere.
Hans Buetow:Oh, so November 1942? Yes. It famously now famously now premiered to terrible reviews and was a bit of a flop as I I as far as I know. It was not hugely well received in its time.
Steve Buetow:It won the Academy Award.
Hans Buetow:Okay. So it was really well received in
Steve Buetow:its time.
Hans Buetow:But the war I mean, that speaks to the fact that the war had been going on. Like, that's a that's a movie about the war in North Africa, which had been going on. There has been war that's been they've been very aware of war. That part of the the cinematic industrial complex hadn't spun up yet since The US entered the war eleven months ago.
Steve Buetow:Not for The US yet. The road to Morocco had just premiered, Well, premiered the day after this letter. Oh, wow.
Hans Buetow:Road to Morocco is what is that one?
Steve Buetow:That's one of the road movies with Bob Hope.
Hans Buetow:Bob Hope and Bing. Okay.
Steve Buetow:Okay. Me and my gal, Judy Garland, and Gene Kelly. Oh, wow. Gentleman Jim for the biographical film starring Errol Flynn.
Hans Buetow:Okay.
Steve Buetow:The Tree in the Test Tube, a wartime drama. No. A propaganda film featuring Laurel and Hardy.
Hans Buetow:Propaganda for falling over.
Steve Buetow:But in '41, the movies were sergeant York, which is a war movie, but it's not the current war. Yeah. But you're right. A yank in the RAF. Oh, the Philadelphia story was the year before that.
Hans Buetow:Okay. So so Katherine Hepburn Yeah. Cary Grant
Steve Buetow:Yep. Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart.
Hans Buetow:Yep. Yep. Philadelphia high society. Well, not I mean Yes. High society gets made ten years later.
Hans Buetow:But
Steve Buetow:So how green was my valley? So the
Hans Buetow:Okay. That
Steve Buetow:Those are the movies that are popular and winning awards in in '41 and '42.
Hans Buetow:I enjoy knowing the sort of thing that was around. Even if she's not going to them, you know, it's what she's seeing in newspapers, I'm sure. You wouldn't see them on TV, but would they have been radio ads? Probably not. In the newspaper.
Hans Buetow:Newspaper, definitely.
Steve Buetow:Yeah. Maybe two pages every day of movie ads. Yeah. And there were two movie theaters within walking distance of their house. Okay.
Steve Buetow:So it there were movie theaters everywhere.
Hans Buetow:And she's not going. She's not going. I haven't wanted to see any war pictures. As goodness knows, we have plenty of that over the radio, the newspapers, and most of all, an empty house. Ugh.
Hans Buetow:Well, she concludes by saying the weather here has been rather cloudy and cold like with extremely high winds from the Northwest. Last night, it blew just terribly. When I looked out this morning, I sure expected to see snow. It sounded like a blizzard during the night. I don't sit downstairs unless I pull the shades now.
Hans Buetow:So last night, I hide myself off to bed about ten and then read in bed for a while. Well, I guess I'd better ring off now. God bless you, dear, and I know you ain't misbehaving. You're too good a Christian for that. I have all the faith in the world in you, darling.
Steve Buetow:Love, mom.
Hans Buetow:So that is Mattie's World for Wednesday, 11/04/1942. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us and being here. And, Amy, thanks for coming in and Yeah.
Hans Buetow:Helping us understand so much about what it looked like. And how Mattie was occupying herself.
Amy Kirkpatrick:This is fun. Thank you.
Steve Buetow:And if you have things that you could add to what we are talking about, we would love to hear it. World War two, history of Saint Paul.
Hans Buetow:Head on over to moth.family, and that will let you get in touch with us. You can also see all the photos that we've put up. See the world that Mattie lives in. Our theme music is by Matt Buto, and our logo and art is also by
Steve Buetow:Amy Kirkpatrick.
Hans Buetow:Our guest today, she, is multi hyphenate. I am Hans Buto.
Steve Buetow:I am Steve Buto. And thank
Hans Buetow:you so much for being here.
