The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

Ex. Special Forces Commando of SixSight.co recounts his gruelling special forces selection where all SAS (Special Air Service) and SBS (Special Boat Service) soldiers are separated from the rest of the potential applicants. Sonny has a wide array of knowledge and interests from bare knuckle boxing, high tech espionage and the use of alternative modalities to assist soldiers and others deal with trauma and mental health.

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

I'm Travis Bader,
and this is the

Silvercore podcast.

Join me as I discuss
matters related to

hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

people in businesses that
comprise the community.

If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

check out our website,
www dot Silvercore CA

we can learn more about
courses, services and

products that we offer
as well as how you can

join the Silvercore club,
which includes 10 million

in north America, wide
liability insurance,

which sure you are
properly covered during

your outdoor adventures.

And once again, joined
by the founder of six

sites, CEO expert, his
special forces, commando,

and corporate spy.

My friend Sonny
Smith sunny.

Thank you very much for
joining me again on the

Silvercore podcast.

Thanks for
having me back.

I'm excited.

Man.

We've been talking about
so many cool things

since our last podcast
said, we decided, you

know, there's going to
be some points in here

that the general public
would probably like

to hear about as well.

And one of them we're
talking about was, well,

I guess specifically, uh,
special forces selection.

Cause I know that's
something that

is intriguing for
a lot of people.

I remember as a teenager,
reading the Andy McNabb

book, immediate action
and absolutely loving

the, uh, the detailing
process of what brought

them through that.

But from your
perspective, What in

your background sort
of drove you to want to

submit yourself to such
arduous, such an arduous

selection process?

Well, at the beginning,
I didn't aim for special

forces or I had that
in the back of my head,

but I didn't tell anyone
about that, which is

a good thing to do.

If you are thinking
of it, you don't

talk about it.

Like, especially if you
walk into a recruiter's

office, don't say I want
to go special forces.

Cause they'll
laugh in your face.

You need to learn to walk
before let's crawl before

you can run and all that.

Uh, but, uh, It was just
striving to be the best.

If I'm going to do
something, I might

as well try and go
as far as I can go.

And that's a stepping
stone process as well.

Um, so that's why
I joined the Royal

Marine commandos.

First of all, because in
the UK they're considered

the best entry level, um,
infantry that you can be.

Um, and the
powers are close.

Second.

See, I've heard the
peers are pretty good

rope to go as well.

Yeah.

Now I have to give
the parents respect

cause I was actually
focused on them as a

youngster on nets, a
Royal Marine command.

Close friend of mine
and he steered me

in that direction.

And I'm very happy about
the decision on made.

Um, but yeah, they're
both good units.

Um, but to go for special
forces, you start off

in the infantry and
then what builds your

basic skill levels up?

Because being in
special forces is a

basics of really what
matters and that's the

difference is knowing
the basics very well.

And then you can build
on top of that, uh, in

terms of pushing yourself
to the limits, uh, you

have to be smart about
it, but there's no easy

way to get around the
pain it's coming, you

know, and you have to get
into the pain early on.

You can't just turn up
and get into the pain.

You have to get
into the pain every

day, every morning,
uh, train in heart.

What do you mean getting
into the pain every day?

Early morning?

Is that just like a
mental switch that

you're like, okay, we're
on, we're doing this.

Yeah.

Once I made the decision
that I was going to

go for selection,
um, then I just.

Decided that I was going
to do the training that

I needed to do to pass,
which in the British

special forces is a,
we call it Yom pin in

the Royal Marines, but
it's a rock marching and

carrying a lot of weight
over long distances over

mountainous terrain.

So I, with that goal
in mind at first, I

just started training
in that regard.

And that's a very
painful thing to do

because it's long time
as a long, a duration

of running with heavy
weights that it just,

your backs are in your
shoulders hurt and with

the weight of the pack.

And then you, obviously,
your legs are burning.

Your lungs are burning.

Um, so it's not
comfortable experiences,

obviously not supposed
to be comfortable.

It is a bit
different than.

Um, some of the
American special forces,

selections, like buds
for the seals, um,

they do a lot of, uh,
like PT in a beach

setting and you have
instructors on your back,

like shouting at you.

And if you do something
wrong, then they're

right on top of you
for our selection.

You're pretty
much on your own.

You don't get
any guidance.

And that's part of it.

It's a psychological,
to be honest.

And that that's
the purpose.

That's a very
interesting aspect to it.

Cause like, I mean
reading through and I

know his, name's not
actually Andy McNabb,

but reading through Andy
McDowell's book that

he had, when I think
he was one of the early

ones to really kind of
delve into the whole

selection process, he
talks about his earlier

days in his upbringing
and he's a little

bit of a delinquent.

Uh, he find that to be
sort of, Hey, A common

trend in, uh, perhaps
people who want to push

themselves to these
special forces level.

But my personal
experience, I'd say yes.

Um, although there's a,
there's always different

backgrounds, but I
think you have to be a

bit of a, an adventure.

And, uh, I call myself
a bit of a wild man,

cause I am, you know, I
just a bit spontaneous.

And uh, I like to just
do stuff, even if I

make mistakes, but,
and I did make mistakes

when I was younger.

Um, and I learned
from them, but you

do have to be that
sort of person that's

going to step forward.

Uh, when everyone else
is kind of question in

looking around what's
everyone else doing?

So you have to be a go

getter.

Is that sort of like
a counter culture

mentality or maybe
like oppositional

defiance, sort of a,
uh, uh, a mentality

that people have where
they're like, you're not

telling me what to do.

I can figure this
out and I can push

through and I've got
my own way of doing it.

Is that sort of a,

yeah, it could be, it
could be, you have to

be very independent
and you don't have

help from anyone.

So in the Marines, it's
very much a team, uh,

select, um, like training
aspect that you all

looking after each other.

And when you go for
special forces, you're

on your own, although
there's team elements,

but you're looked at as
an individual candidate,

um, and say, if you're
doing a rock March,

you don't pull back
to help someone else.

Um, because you'll,
you'll get failed for

doing so like that
person's on your own.

Yeah.

You leave them,
but in the Marines

you would all come
together and help that

individual team member.

Um, so there's a
bit of a difference

there.

So, I guess it's gotta
be difficult when you

get, you're trying
to build a cohesive

team of special forces
individuals and you're

doing so by specifically
selecting people who

are individually minded
and very strong-willed.

Yeah.

Is how does that work
when once you're sort

of in the, I mean,
I'm kind of jumping a

few spaces, pass all
selection process, but

how does that work in the
team environment having

so many individuals?

Is there a lot of
friction that can kind of

happen or is the shared
experience enough to,

there's a difference
between lamps still

team players and
being an individual,

meaning that you can
operate on your own.

You can do everything
independently.

The, the leader aspect.

Um, see, I'm not a
natural leader, but

I still did well.

Um, and I can step up
to that plate when I

want to, and I need
to, but I don't lead.

Um, a lot of the time
I'm quite happy to

be a team member.

So yeah, you do have the
people that push out the

front, but also those
people that are always

stepping up and trying to
control things, they're

not going to do very well
in selection because you

need to be a great man.

And that is a
Jordan to you.

Anyone that gives you
advice before you go

on selection, it's
get your head down.

Be proficient in your
skills and drills

and be a gray man.

You don't want to
stand out for the wrong

reasons and make it join
attention to yourself.

You can draw attention
to yourself by being

good at your job.

Not for.

Off of reasons

if you're, let's say,
uh, completing a tab

or a route March or
something, uh, well

ahead of everybody
else, would that be

separating yourself
from the green mat?

Like, would you
intentionally try and

keep yourself back a bit?

If there's some areas
that, you know, you

could do quite well in?

Well, I wouldn't
intentionally pull myself

back, but I do know on
my selection, there was

a guy who was way ahead
of everyone and he was

really going for it.

And, uh, there
was talk about.

Just being a bit too
cocky in that role.

And he didn't make
it at the end.

I don't know if that
weighed on him, but

also he was, it's a
long process and the

Hills phase is just one
phase of selection and

he, I don't know where
he dropped off, but

he burned himself very
heavily in the earliest

stage of selection.

And it's a long process.

If you get any injuries
during that phase,

you're carrying them
onto even harder

arduous, uh, activities
later down the line.

And it's not an
intelligent thing to

do because there's
a pass and a fail at

the end of the day.

Um, so

not like you a hundred
percent pass, you've

just got passed.

It's like going to see a
doctor, I guess you don't

know if they came top
of their class or they

just going to eat through
this still a doctor.

Yeah, exactly.

That's it.

Uh, so what, um, what
were the steps that were

required once your Royal.

I in order to make
that next transition

into apply for special
forces, what did, what

would you have to do?

Uh, you do have to
have a certain amount

of years service.

I believe it was,
uh, two years of,

of, of Royal Marine
service to get that

experience as a soldier.

And you wouldn't want
to go straight into

it anyway, because
you do need to be, uh,

a high level soldier
in all areas, um, and

have the basics down.

And for me, I actually
was in a command role

before I decided to go.

So in the British
military, in the Marines,

even in the army, they've
slightly different

ranking systems.

We have Marine
Lance corporal

and then corporal.

And I was at the rank
of corporal when I

went for a selection.

And that helped me
because I improved as

a soldier by taking
that command of men

at that time, before
that I didn't have.

Uh, as good understanding
of certain things

like section, section
attacks and stuff

like that, and how the
mechanics worked and

going into the special
forces, it would, it

was a big part of okay.

The knowledge base
that I needed.

So yeah, I did it at the
right time, actually.

And

I'm sure that build a
lot of confidence as

well, having the extra
years in and the, uh,

the experience there.

Yeah.

Yeah,

it does.

Yeah.

Not like, I think I
mentioned on the last

podcast, when I did that
corporal's course, um,

you have to go away to
do, uh, there was two

special forces guys on
that course with me and

I was working with them
closely for a number of

weeks and they became
first and second on that

course, and I was number
free and they pulled me

aside at the end of the
course and said, oh,

when you come in down
to our unit and having

a go, and it was always
in my head at that time.

But from that
little discussion,

that was okay.

They said someone came
me that they thought

I was good enough.

And before I'd actually
met them, I hadn't

met anyone in the
British special forces

as a, in a frame.

Capacity or worked
alongside them.

And it was good to
have that exposure

because I realized
that they are they're

exceptionally good,
but they're not gods.

And that's the image
I had was that these

are the people that
God's like, they may

never make a mistake.

They're just perfect
in every aspect.

And I had that image
of Royal Marines

before I joined.

And then when you get
to that, you work hard

to get to that standard.

Um, you could still
think you're a God, but

you know, it's doable.

You can do it.

And then the same thing
happened with the,

when you did selection
and went down there,

uh, you just built
gradually and then you

get there eventually.

And then when you're
there, you're like,

wow, it was horrendous,
but it's achievable in

if you, if you do it,

it's amazing how
many people have that

perception of it's
just these people

are superhuman.

They're so different
from normal people.

I like how you put
that because I find

it, I find it like
this in so many facets

of day-to-day life.

It's not that they're so
awesome in one particular

area, it's that they've
gotten very good at

perfecting the basics and
very good at perfecting

the small things that
are required in order

to be able to make the
overall come together

in, in such a way.

Um, you know, we, in
our training courses

that we do, and we've
got different levels of,

uh, firearms training
courses and our level

one, two, and three,
and we always get people

saying, oh, I want to
do a level four course.

I want them to do a
level five course.

I want to start here
because I've, I'm

pretty, pretty good.

And what most of
these people actually

don't realize is that.

The very high end
high level courses

require a very, very
strong proficiency in

the absolute basics.

Just like the absolute,
basic things that

you need in order
to be proficient.

And you drill those
down to such a level.

Now you're at that
God-like level.

Is that similar to
what you oh, that's

definitely,
that's an accurate

description of it.

Uh, is it to it's heat
and to be honest, yeah.

Yeah.

You really do have to
focus on the basic skills

because you are a soldier
at the end of the day.

And, and when you're on
the ground, you actually

do in the same role,
the same techniques and

things that you would use
as an infantry soldier

in the Royal Marines.

Uh, and then you may
have got there by

parachuting or some
other glamorous place,

you know what I mean?

Um, but yeah, so you have
to build off the basics

is a, is a good message.

So that takes you.

Now you've got the nod.

You got people saying,
come on, give it a shot.

So you decide to put
your name in and see

what would happen.

There's a lot of
people that do that.

I should imagine a lot
of people probably want

to put their name and do
they all get looked at

if you fit the criteria
and your commanding

officer of your unit, um,
approves, which usually

they do, um, because it's
actually quite a good way

to feed into the special
forces it's looked at.

Everyone should
have a go.

I believe if you want
to be, if you've already

joined the Royal Marines,
then you've already

taken that step to
join a prestigious high

level organization.

Um, and you want to
be a fighting soldier.

You don't join the
Royal Marines because

you want to drive
trucks or anything

else in my opinion.

Um, so once you've taken
that step, I think you

should work towards.

If, if that's what
you want to do with

your life, because
once you get to that

special forces level,
the whole, your

everyday life is just
completely different.

There's a different
outlook on you.

You are seen as the top
of the table, basically.

Um, and you don't have
to do a lot of the stuff

that you have to do in
the military anymore.

For instance, cut your
hair, salute offices by

so or anything like that.

It's just relaxed because
you've already proven

that you are proficient
and good enough.

And now all that stuff
doesn't really matter.

It's irrelevant now
you've got bigger

things to worry about,
you know what I mean?

Very cool.

Yeah.

That would be, um, that
would be something to

shoot for, for sure.

I would think everybody
would want to put

that a little bit
extra effort into at

least try for that.

Um, yeah, but when we
say little bit extra

effort, So you get the
nod you're in there.

You can call down C says
at a boy, good to go.

So then you apply
through the military

system and then you
have a, this, they call

them briefing courses,
which is the first

test, um, that you do.

So the SAS has a
traditionally and

easier briefing course,
and then a harder

pre-selection that you
have a pre selection.

You don't just turn up on
day one in Andy McNabb's

day, you just turned
up and you went onto

the Hills in the Brecon
beacons and started.

And now they have
a buildup of, uh,

different things.

And down at the SBS,
they have a briefing

course, which is a,
is a one week course.

And it's traditionally
harder than the

eight week buildup
before selection.

So I knew that I was
going for an extremely

hard one week.

So the training
started very early on.

Um, so.

Yom pin as we call it
in the Marines with

tabbing and training
my legs and my back and

stuff just for, to carry
heavy loads across.

Mountainous terrain.

So when you say heavy
loads, what are we

talking?

Uh, well, it does
vary a lot for

different marches.

Um, there was one March
on that, uh, briefing

course, I believe it
was around 75 to 80

pounds, but that isn't
the actual weight.

That's the weight
that you weigh the.

Before the day, and
then you have to carry

water and yet you have
to carry a certain

amount of water of sea
for safety reasons.

And then you have to
carry your food as well.

Cause the marches do
go on sometimes eight

hours and the biggest
one is mine was, uh,

18 and a half hours.

That was actually
on selection.

That was one of the
marches called long

drag, which is the
famous last one you do?

So the fan dance,
uh, no, that's a

different one actually.

And th that's quite early
on at the first week,

but that is a, that's
a different one because

the speed is different.

And, um, it's very famous
as well because people

have died on that one.

Um, candidates have
died in the past because

of the, the mountain
is, uh, is quite a

unforgiving place and
the weather can come in.

Uh, and in the summer,
um, we lost a few guys a

few years back from heat
exhaustion, three guys

on one selection course
on the same day, which

yeah, I think it was free
two or free, um, which

was quite horrendous.

I wasn't in at that
time, but everyone in

the British military
heard about that.

Um,

so 80 pounds, then he
got water and then you

got food and that's
your probably that's

another 10 pounds
anyways, on your back.

Yeah.

So that was, that was
one March, but the

normal weight is 55
pounds for the bag.

And then you've got a
rifle and other stuff.

So on a normal March,
you're going maybe.

65 to 70 pounds
of weight.

Um, and that's,
yeah, that's still,

it's a, it's a heavy
load, you know, and

through that March there
you've, you don't know

when it's going to end.

You said you've got
like on the, the long

drag is 18 hours.

Do you have a deadline
on that or are they

continually moving the
finish line on you?

Uh,

on that one?

You kind of know that one
because it's, uh, it's

so famous that people
talk about it, but the

others in the mid, in
the, in the middle of

the course is, is when
you literally, you,

they drive you in the
morning to, uh, the start

point and they don't
tell you where that is.

So you have to follow
on your map in the, in

the area and figure out
where you're starting at.

And then they just give
you the, the coordinates

for the next great, like
the good reference to

the next checkpoint.

And then you get there
and then you get another

one and you just keep
going like that until

finally you see the
trucks and stuff at

one checkpoint, and
you don't know when

that's going to be.

So yeah, it varies some
days you could be going

for four, five hours.

Some days it could be
up to eight hours, but.

Wow.

Yeah.

It's, it's not, uh,
it's, it's quite

psychologically,
um, test him because

of that as well.

Um, and people do fail
because they think

they're way behind and
then the next checkpoint

is only there and
they've talked themselves

out of it, basically.

Yeah.

I remember as a, uh, as a
kid, just having to push

a car and, uh, and just
thinking about that whole

psychological thing,
there is a couple of us

were pushing the car down
the road and I didn't

know where the car was
supposed to be ending up.

And one person jokingly
said, oh, it's going

to be up around the
block and down the

next side, when we're
really about one house

away, where did it go?

And we're running
with this thing and

pushing it for about
a block anyways.

And so I decided, okay,
I'm going to take a break

because if we've got
that much further to go.

And realize that
person started steering

in their driveway.

And I'm like, now I
look like the guy it's

just couldn't, couldn't
make it to the end here.

And I always held that
in the back of my head

as a, um, uh, just a
little bit of a lesson

about the, uh, the
power of the, uh, of

your mind to be able to
continue pushing through.

Cause I felt knackered
there, but hell if,

if it was only one
more house, I'd go,

I could've continued.

I could have done it.

And I have to imagine
just on a much bigger

scale, not pushing a
car, a block, but on

a much bigger scale,
um, that mental process

of, um, I can do it.

That must, that must take
a lot of, um, I guess

straight up willpower,
just, just push as

opposed to anything
else I would think.

I dunno.

What w what do you do?

What did you find
yourself doing to

be able to push.

When you didn't know
where that deadline was?

Uh,

first of all, I, um, if
I had failed selection, I

had, uh, I would have had
a hard time in my life.

So I cut ties.

I actually did selection
as a reservist, but I did

the regular selection.

Um, and there was a
part that was missed

out, which was the
jungle phase, which we

did, uh, a different
phase in the UK.

Right.

I was in there
with everyone else.

Um, so it's joint
together, joint special

forces selection.

So I had gone as a
reservist, so I had a

job and stuff as well.

So I quit my job, quit
where I was living.

And I focused
solely on that.

So if I failed, I'd be
homeless and jobless, but

that was a technique that
I learned in my life.

Like I have to go
all in on things.

Um, and then that's
in my mind as well.

Like there's no
fall back plan here.

I'm full steam ahead.

So there's no
turning back.

I like that.

Yeah.

That's just
something that.

Do because I know there's
no other way out of it.

I've got to go forward.

But also actually when
you're on the marches

and stuff, I have a very
imaginative mind and

I like to daydream and
I actually spoken to

friends in the Marines,
talk about running

and, and I'd say about
when you're running.

Um, I just go off in a
daydream about things

and my mind can be gone
for awhile and then

I'd come back and I'll
feel the pain again.

Um, Yeah, I can go away
and just daydream about

things for a long time.

That's cool.

Yeah.

And some, and I speak
to other people in

there, like, and I talk
about that and they're

like, what the hell
are you talking about?

And I'm like, oh, you
can't, you don't do that.

No.

So I don't know.

Maybe I have
something that other

people don't, but

the honesty.

How do you find your
situational awareness

when you, when you're in
that daydream process, is

it kind of, are you still
able to be able to pick

up on the key things that

yeah, I seem to
just be okay.

Like when I was on this,
on the Hills selection,

I was actually, I
had two songs in my

head, which I could
never listen to again.

And I would just
sing those songs

over and over again.

And yeah, I could
never listen to

those songs again.

And there were
very strange songs.

It was that pina colada
song, you know, and

also the, another one
is I don't like cricket.

I love it.

I just heard them on
the radio and I couldn't

get them out of my head.

But once I started going
through the lyrics in my

head, it just played over
and over again, that just

passed the time because
a lot of it was, it was

hours of just running
a March and on my own.

And you can't
listen to music.

And usually I like
to listen to music

if I'll run and get
into a bit of a, like

a daydream state, but

funny, because how you
described that I actually

do something similar.

So if I've got a pack on
I'm going up the mountain

and it's, I know I've got
a long distance to go, I

will do the same thing.

I'll make up my own
songs, usually to a beat,

sort of like pina coladas
of goofy things like

this, but I'll make up my
own words inside there.

At, uh, I w I've
never actually heard

somebody say this.

Yeah, no, it's
definitely a technique.

And I don't know if
it's taught to people,

but maybe people can
start trying to do it

because it's been really
beneficial for me.

And I did it in rural
Marine training as

well, because there's
a lot of running and

stuff in that and
long distance marches.

So I think is
very beneficial.

I don't know what you
would think about.

I can't do something
just to think about

this as horrendous.

This is a render site
all the way round.

You have to take
your mind somewhere

else.

I started it simply
because I was in Chrisley

country area with a lot
of Grizzlies and a ton

of Grizzlies sign in your
spot and I'm all over.

And so I just.

I figured I'd make noise
and I'd sing something

out loud and it was
just something that

comes to your head.

And then after a while,
it's just something

I continued to do.

And I would either just
sing it in my head.

Cause you don't
want to sound like

a lunatic singing
weird lyrics and yeah.

But, um, luckily
no one else was

around to listen to

and you didn't get
attacked by any bears?

No,

no.

I was able, it was
good on that one.

Yeah.

Oh great.

Yeah.

I definitely use it.

I think they should,
maybe, maybe people

have studied it maybe
is a technique of a,

like a mind mantra.

Yeah.

I don't know.

But also I'd like to
daydream about the

end result of what I
was going to achieve.

If I passed that's
enough, a big factor

that I used when I
was a Royal Marine,

like actually getting
presented with my beret

and then in selection, I
would always think about

what the end goal is.

And that would be
another daydream that

I'll go deep into.

And I still do
this all the time.

That's um, you know,
being able to focus on

that end goal to make
it happen, they call it

like manifest destiny.

You think about it'll
end up happening.

Um, some people agree
or disagree, but from

the psychological
perseverance factor, I

think that's massive.

That's a, uh,
it's interesting.

So.

When you're you didn't
do the jungle phase,

uh, jungle phase.

How long does that
usually last it's about

month, roughly.

Yeah.

So we did an SOP phase.

So in the Hills,
you're tested on your

mindset and a little
bit of navigation, but

mainly it's physical
fitness and your

robustness as a soldier.

And then when you
go to the jungle, my

face was the SOP phase
was held in the UK.

You're tested on your
soldier and skills and

how you work in a team.

Um, but also a bit of
it's arduous as well.

Um, so I was doing stuff
like jungle Joe's in the

UK and stuff, but I did
mine in November, so it

was pretty cold and we
had a small team of guys.

So the point that you
is bringing up just

now we did one activity
whilst in the field,

which was, uh, which
was one of the hardest

things I've done, but
it came out of nowhere.

Um, so we did a river
crossing, which is a

normal thing to do in the
Royal Marines, but the

idea was just to get you
and your kit soaking wet.

And it was November.

So it was freezing.

There was like
ice on the floor.

So we did this, uh, river
cross in around 6:00 PM.

After other
training, we'd been

doing other stuff.

And then we got out
and then they had this

massive, um, this massive
block, which was, I don't

know how much weight,
maybe 200 pounds or more,

and at the straps on it.

And we'd used
it in exercises.

And they said it was
a WMD, but it was just

like for messing us
around buses, basically,

it's just a heavy,
heavy, big metal.

Box with straps on it.

And uh, they said,
alright, pick it up.

We also had our
Bergens and field kits.

So our Bergens and
everything was heavy

as it was and rifles
and everything.

So we picked it up
and it started around.

I remember looking
at my watch, started

around 7:00 PM and they
said, right, you've got

carry this, uh, to the
next grid coordinate.

And this is
it off you go.

So there was six
of us at this time.

So two of us could have
a rest, but they were

still running with the
Bergen and everything.

And so we started at
seven and we, we we'd go.

And I remember lifting
it first and thinking,

oh, wow, this is heavy.

And we literally run
about dunno 30 meters

and then have to stop
and then run 30 meters

and then have to stop
because of the weight

of it was putting
our shoulders down.

And then we'd get in a
system where we rotated.

So that went for a
couple of hours and we

kept getting to this
next grid reference.

And then the guy would
say, next one, Oh, if

you go, we kept doing it.

So then four hours went
past and it was the

middle of the night and
then six hours went past

and then it turns out
we did it for 12 hours.

Yeah.

And it went into
the morning, like

seven in the morning.

And then we had to,
uh, have a whole day

of like break contacts
and which is a very

arduous activity anyway.

And, and very, you
have to think about a

lot when you're like
breaking away from the

enemy fire and maneuver.

And, um, so there
was things like that,

that you didn't know
when the end was kind

of be, and it was a
psychological test.

And also on the exercise,
they gave us one ration

pack for one day and
we were out there

on this part of the
exercise was a seven

day out in the field.

Um, and then now give us
little bits of food after

a few days, but we were
very, um, weak as well.

We didn't have much foods
that it was, it was,

uh, that was one of the
hardest aspects actually.

It's an unusual
one because there

was no tactical
advantage of that.

It was just, let's
see, who's going to

break or basically
put them into this

mindset where they're
extremely fatigued and

then we're going to
test them as a soldier.

I think that
was the purpose.

So they say that which
doesn't kill you,

makes you stronger.

Right.

But not
necessarily, right.

I mean, you can be
poisoning a person

and slowly over time
they might not be

dead, but they might
not be stronger.

Right.

Um, I think that there's
how you, how your body

responds to the, uh,
the hardship and then

how your mind responds
to the hardship is

what can eventually
make you stronger?

Did you find that some
people were unable

to cope with that?

And eventually now
they're carrying

with them that
the psychological,

um, harder.

Ongoing or is you

mean people that passed
or people that failed?

Well,

I guess maybe,
or maybe both.

I mean like the people
that failed and I

know some people have
gone through and have

been unsuccessful at
selection and it took

a long time for them
to get their heads

squared around that one.

Cause they felt,
uh, poorly about it.

Um, But as well, some
people who've been

successful with it that
have gone through and,

uh, some people have,
uh, absolutely loved

their experiences.

And some people look back
and say, I wish I did

something differently.

I think the pendulum
swings both ways.

Cause I remember seeing
a lot of soldiers with me

and I was, I missed the
whole Afghan sort of ops.

So I was in a, I
was a corporal.

So I was quite
established and I was

experienced in soldier
in, I hadn't done

an actual operation
and there's a whole

generation of us now
that have haven't

had that experience.

But there were guys
in my, uh, selection

who had had like three
or four tours of mix

of Afghan and Iraq.

And there's one guy in
particular who was one

of the most switched
on proficient soldiers

I've ever worked with,
uh, met, but he was

a little bit older.

Um, so he at the moment.

Obviously, but his
body wasn't holding up

anymore through the Hills
and everything else.

So he found cause of
injuries and this is

a common occurrence.

Um, so he, he was
exceptionally skilled,

but his body just
couldn't take it,

but he was only like
31 at that time.

And I was a lot younger.

Right.

Um, so you do lose a
lot of people because

of that, the physical,
like smashing that you

take, but in terms of
if people actually, um,

psychologically affected
from it, I think you just

take the positive side.

That's the part
of the purpose.

Cause you go through
all that then, and then

the next time you're
in the situation like,

well, this is easy.

Cause I've already
been through not

eating for four days.

Right.

It's still operating
with no sleep over

those free days or
something as well.

Um, so yeah, it's
good to go through the

hardship if you want.

Uh, the best soldier
at the end of.

The selection

process.

So you're watching
the clock.

You're looking at
your watch as you

go through there.

Seven o'clock
and here we go.

Did you find the minutes
to start dragging on or?

Well,

I, I, it was, so this
thing was so heavy

that we, at the end,
we could do like five,

six steps and then
nearly collapsing.

And I just thought,
oh, we're going to do

this for a few hours.

They simply can't go
further than a few hours

because this is so heavy.

Like, we can't move
it, it's taken so long

and it just kept going
and going, and we

weren't really allowed
to talk to each other.

So it was just
like catching

glimpses of people.

Like, is this for real?

We're just going
to keep going.

Like, and later in that
actual course, um, cause

we do a lot of amphibious
stuff and Klepper

is like a two person
kayak that we used.

It was actually
later on that same

exercise we had.

CLA build this Klepper.

We have to carry it
on your back as well.

Part of that, and then
paddle out quite far,

and then back in, uh,
to like the, the base.

Um, and when we came
back in from the

base, a few lads had
actually gone down.

Three of them,
had a hypothermia

and stuff and they
failed because of it.

Um, and I don't know,
these people didn't have

so much meat on them
and stuff, but they were

extremely fit and they
would all, they already

passed Hills phase and
they'd already done

some very extreme stuff.

I think it was a bit
questionable in my

mind why they needed to
fail because it wasn't

their mind that failed.

They got to the
end, it was their

body that failed.

But yeah,

it's gotta be rough.

Yeah.

That'd be rough
putting yourself

through all of that
only to find out that.

You're hypothermic just
based on yeah, yeah.

To fit.

Yeah, exactly.

And a lot of people do
get to the end of these

phases, especially the
jungle and the stories

come out from the guys
that went to the jungle.

They get to the end
and then you get what's

called a stand up fail.

And that site, the
DS, the training team

say, we don't like you
basically, or there's

something you did a
long time ago in week.

One of this, that's
a red flag and you're

out, but we let you
go to the end because,

because we're assholes.

Exactly.

Um, and a lot of
people do get failed

on their personality.

Um, because in, in the
Hills phase, you're

just a number, but when
you've moved further

down the line, then you
start, they looking at

you as an individual.

Um, the type of
person you are now.

Work under pressure.

And there's certain
attributes, which

they don't tell you.

I don't even know
what they are.

Um, but if you tick
one of those boxes

you're gone and
there's obviously a

lot thought and there's
reason behind it.

Um, yeah, selfishness
is one of the main

ones, um, and integrity.

I know for a fact,
so integrity in the

military, especially in
the Royal Marines, is,

is one of the biggest
aspects that you could

take in and any sort of
line or deception, uh,

you be in a bad place.

If you get found out,
have not been truthful.

And that's, uh,
that's something I can

definitely get behind.

I, uh, you know, anybody
working at silver Cortel

and the same thing,
you know, if you make

a mistake, that's okay.

People make mistakes
happens all the time.

I will take a look at
what we can do to fix it.

So it doesn't
happen again.

And if that mistake keeps
happening over and over

again, then maybe we're
going to have to have a

chat to see why that is.

If you lie about.

What you're doing, or for
whatever reason, create a

situation where you can't
be trusted, that's it?

Because I've got no time
to be around people that

you just can't trust.

I have no problem with
people make mistakes

and I, and I can a
hundred percent get

behind that as well.

But I find it
interesting.

Now you've got a special
forces individual who's

going to be required
to be deceptive in

escape and evasion type
situations or to, uh,

essentially, um, be
the gray man and bend

sort of societal norms.

Yeah.

How does that work?

Uh, well, you still
loyalty your sides

and your team.

So yeah, there's
always like the

enemy in yourselves.

Yeah.

Integrity is, is, is
such an important part

of being a soldier in
general, but in the

special forces would
be even higher than

that because the things
that you're taught and

you learn can really
jeopardize, uh, larger

scale operations and even
diplomatic relations.

Um, so yeah, I dunno.

Do they do, I, I remember
reading about a bit of

an interrogation phase.

Did you have
we go through

something like that?

Yeah.

Yeah, you do.

And it's called CA
um, and it's a, it's a

course and it's probably
the most knowledge

knowledgeable course
that I went through.

That the one that I took
the most from, and it

was the most interesting.

And I'd love to do this
sort of training again

when I wasn't in a
state of like physical

exhaustion and, uh, like
just weakness because I

was so like beaten and.

Deandre, not DRG, but
like malnourished.

And, uh, my body
was aching and

everywhere and I was
like sleep deprived.

And then I was learning
some of the most

coolest stuff I've ever
learned in my life,

but I was couldn't
enjoy it, you know?

Cause I was being tested
all the time and also

I was so fatigued.

Um, but I still took
a lot from those,

that course in

particular.

So what did it, are
you able to talk

about?

I can talk about
certain things.

Um, and I know I'll only
talk about it because

I've heard it on other
podcasts or read it,

Andy McNabb's book.

And that was one of the
biggest, um, incidents

that ever happened to
the, not the British

medical abortions
when he was his patrol

was captured and
some of them escaped

and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And that was like, The CA
training that came into

play, and that's what
the worst case scenario

for what can happen.

So you do go through that
and when you come out

the other end, you have
a lot of good skills and

drills that you could use
to save your life and,

and, and stuff like that.

Uh,

still being
rather cryptic.

So, yeah, because
this is one that is

drilled into you.

And also, I never want
to give away anything

that can damage guys on
the ground, obviously,

but that there are other
people that we talked

about ed called her own
and Ed's manifesto, which

does a lot of the scape
and evasion sort of tools

and little tactics and
stuff that the cartels

in Mexico are using.

Uh, and it's a big
interest of mine.

I love all that
sort of stuff.

And I carry, I learned
some things in my

course that I carry
with me and, and.

Do you use should
that worst case

scenario happen?

Cause I do close
protection now and

not body garden.

Um, if I ever was ever
kidnapped or ever, like

if I was ever tied up
plastic cuffed, then

some there's some good
things that, to use that,

to get out of that, um,
that I would recommend.

And I know we discussed
this on, I'm going to

stop making products
that people can use

maybe even for solo
travelers, but also in

the security industry.

Uh, there's a need for
having some like CF

type tools to escape
from situations.

If you're in the
worst case scenario.

And no, we, um, w we
talked about those

para cord bracelets
that were all the rage

at one point in time.

And I

did have friends
that were in those.

I never had one

myself.

No, I've never had,
what am I remember?

The, uh, it was a meme.

They had a, this
cartoon character, and

he's thinking about
all these cool things

he can do with his
para cord bracelet.

He's locked in prison
and he's using it to

cut through bars and
abs sail out the window

and use it to fish.

And then it showed
the reality and his

friends were like, huh.

So you wear a
bracelet now.

Huh?

That's cool.

I guess

it's tactical

bracelet to go.

So, so what sort
of CA tools would,

uh, would you

promote?

Well, the most effective
tool that I ever

experienced, which I
carry with me when I'm

working all the time
is a Kevlar cord in a

way, because I don't
want to give out like

handcuff escape things
because criminals are

out there using these.

And that's another
aspect, you know, Feed

the criminal criminal
people out there more,

uh, cause they actually
obviously go and buy

these products, watch
the train in and,

and I'm sure they do
for ads manifesto to.

But mine most effective
would be if I was going

to get plastic AFT tape
restrain with tape or

rope, and then this,
these Kevlar chords

two loops and then a
string, and it can be

folded up very small.

And then you can just use
your feet in a bicycle

motion around, and it
just cuts through those

things apart from metal,
obviously, and for people

solo travelers or anyone
traveling to a high risk

areas and for security
workers, I think this

is a very good tool.

So I'm going to be
trying I'm experiment

in at the moment, um, in
a way that, cause also

it's not metal, so you
can carry it when you

go on airplanes around
and it would also be

a good survival tool.

It could be great to see.

It would be very good for
that if we ever had to.

Yes.

Um, that's funny, you
know, I think, I think

there's definitely
something to be said for,

um, having the tools,
but also having the, the

knowledge and the mind
to be able to adapt to

the situations and, um,
use what you have around

you or use what you
brought with you in, and

sort of alternate ways.

And, you know, I, I
remember years ago I

worked for, um, cable
company, I guess we

had, I think it was
Telus and Shaw or

something, whatever
it was that we had.

And Shaw came over
over from back east and

decided to offer the
cable TV for everyone.

And so I got hired
and I'm supposed to

be doing audits and I
got to go around and I

got to check to see if
people are essentially

stealing cable.

And if they are, then
I got to try and upsell

them or disconnect them.

And when you have to
do apartment blocks,

they, you got to drive
downtown Vancouver.

Pick up a big
set of keys.

And then you got your
list of all the places

you gotta go to and you
get into the apartments

and you get into the,
uh, um, into the,

uh, the cable rooms,
the electrical rooms.

And I thought, man, I'm
wasting a lot of time

driving all the way down
to Vancouver, then off

to go to either Richmond
or Delta or wherever

in and do these things.

I'll just bring
lockpicks with me.

I hate.

And so I was got
very good at just

picking the locks as
allowed to be there as

permitted to be there.

I wasn't doing anything
untowards or illegal

and, uh, ended up making
my own key sets for,

uh, the internal locks.

I thought, well, the
alloy, as well as, uh,

what was the other one,
the ACE, uh, that you'll

find on the outside and
you start to get this

sort of, uh, Pigeon
hole and this narrow

frame of reference.

And I would just walk
up and open the picks

and I picked my way
in and here I go.

And sometimes you're
working on a lock

for a while and
like, huh, come on.

Maybe it would've
been smarter to go.

And I realized that when
you have that skill set

and you have the, uh,
the knowledge, you have

to always, always be
open to alternate ways.

Cause I remember
working on one for a

while only to realize
I could probably reach

my arm around on this
one thing through a

little mail slot and
just open the door.

Oh, there you go.

And I'm in.

So I had to completely
readdress how I

for speed sake.

So I get the job
done, how I approach

these things and I'd
always put the tools.

Second.

Is there a fast
way I can get in?

It's just somebody going
in through another door

and I can just scoot
in behind them or is

there, um, can I reach
around the corner?

Can I, can I just get a
little, uh, uh, I forget

what they call it made
this little sort of slim

Jim type thing a shove.

It.

Anyways.

Yummy.

Yeah.

It's quite a niche
that was skilled at

lockpicking and it
takes a lot of time.

I don't know you must've
got quite good at it

and it's also quite
satisfying thing.

Yeah.

So I was trying to
practice practicing at

home and my parents'
house and the doors

and the front doors.

I managed to get
them, but I wouldn't

be a good burglar.

I'd have to allocate
two hours to get in.

Well,

you know, sometimes
you're in bang

lickety-split sometimes
you're just taking

a while and that's
where, um, being

able to laterally
look at problems.

Sometimes it's just a
matter of jumping up

to the second floor
and getting in, but.

Uh, you have on the
lockpicking side, I,

I could hold my own.

It was a hobby started
when I was in grade four.

I learned it then, and
then I would always play

around with it, got into
a little bit of trouble

in my youth, uh, with it
and then learned how not

to get in trouble and the
right way to do things.

So,

yeah.

Yeah.

I've I used one of
those little guns at

one point, you know,
flicks it's didn't

work too good either.

No.

And they, that works
off the bump system.

So like, if you, if you
think about it, like, um,

you take three pennies.

I don't even, we don't
even have pennies

anymore, three, three
quarters and you put

them or put two of them
together and you ran

the third one into it.

And the one in the
middle stays still and

the other one goes off.

That's how those
tend to work.

And that's where the,
the, the bump key kind

of been around forever,
but just within the

last 10 or so years, the
Internet's kind of, yeah.

Kind of got those
going, but yeah,

those little guns.

Yeah,

I prefer to breach
the door, slow, safe

manner, to be honest.

Well, that was
always an opposite.

I would say that
would be absolutely

the preferred way to

do it.

Yeah.

That's more exciting,
although you're

going loud, but that
was kind of the job

that I used to do.

So loudness
is part of it.

Very cool.

So, all right.

On the, the line
of, uh, sort of CA

accessories that you're
talking about, is there

anything else that
you're, uh, you're

sort of looking at?

Uh,

I, I'm very big on
privacy and personal

privacy and because
I did work in the

world of corporate
espionage and there was

a lot of gray areas I
talked about before.

Um, and there's a lot
of, uh, like we've

our cell phones.

Well I've learned is that
it's compromised and you

have to assume everything
is compromised.

And whether you are
worried about the

government listening
or watching what you're

doing in some sort
of algorithm setting,

not an actual person
sitting there in the FBI

watch new personally,
which is not really the

reality, or whether you
work in a high business

sort of setting and
the information that

you hold and use in the
business meetings you

have could be beneficial
to a competitor.

Cause that's sort
of is, is the world

that, uh, corporate
espionage goes down,

um, or wherever you are.

In a sort of marriage
sort of dispute

and your high net
worth individual.

Cause that's also the
area that I was working

in which people paying us
to spy on their spouses

or someone they're about
to have a divorce with.

And then, um, they want
custody of the kids

and stuff like that.

And you have to look
for different angles

of what crimes or,
or information could

benefit your client.

So, and also for me,
I don't really want.

My phone watching
my every move and

then advertising
about things that are

in my environment,
which is happening.

Um, and people have been
saying that for many

years, but it is true.

And it does listen to
you and it does what

you and scanned your
facial expressions.

And we'll go into
this technology world.

I like to have a hard
switch that in the

evenings, I'll put my
phone in a Faraday bag

for instance, which is a.

Uh, signal blocking
bag and put it away.

And that's not
because I think the

government is listening
to me or anything.

It's mainly because I
don't want to be hanging

off my phone all the time
when I'm with my family

and spending time, my
daughter, for instance.

So when I have a bit
of a balance and that's

a good way to do that,
but also if, if I was

working in security and
I was with a client, I

would recommend this sort
of stuff for business

meetings as well.

Um, so I've got a few
products along those

lines that are in the
pipeline come in, which I

use quite a lot as well.

Well, you let me know,
cause I'm going to get

one of those Faraday
bags off you, but

definitely we did a,
uh, a hunting trip.

Recently.

We had two separate
vehicles and we took

a raft up on, uh,
uh, the Fraser and

we took it to this.

I got a little, a
whitewater raft.

You could put a
hundred K down.

Uh, the river and,
um, my vehicle at the

bottom figured, well,
I don't want to bring

my keys with me and
possibly lose them or

get them wet or whatever.

So I'll just hide them
inside my vehicle.

And I got to push button
lock on the outside.

I said, but if somebody
broke in here, all they

got to do cause it's
push button to start

is just press a break.

And they start on up and
they took my vehicle.

So I tried placing it,
all these different

areas and we're thinking,
well, maybe, maybe

we got to just hide
it somewhere else.

And, and then, uh,
anyways, we had

some materials.

I made a quick
Faraday bag.

It worked right.

We're good.

It's kind of like the old
blockbuster days where

you take a, a blockbuster
video and they got

the RFID tab there.

He held a, uh, a
loony against the

big thick RFID.

And you could, you could
pass it through the

thing without it going.

Beep

how do you know that

I would never do it.

And actually there is a.

I was asked to do
I, uh, to speak at a

fan up in Whistler a
number of years ago.

And it was a.

Put on by a PIPC private
investigators association

of British Columbia.

And I did my, my little
bit, but, um, one that

I thought was really
interesting was a,

um, it was a group.

I think it was a father
son sort of a team

that ran a business and
they would turn whole

rooms into Faraday
cages and they would

have a special film.

They put on the window
and a special paint, and

then they paint over top
of that again, so that

people don't see it.

And they would put
in a, um, a repeater

lake, either a wifi
or cell repeater in

the room that they can
operate on a switch.

And so everybody comes
in now, everybody in

this room, if they want
to give a lecture or

something else, they can
turn it off and nobody's

got no phones or beep
and nothing's going, but

what they can also do is
have everybody that, uh,

is talking inside here.

They get a copy of that
information because

it's getting relayed
through like some pretty

interesting stuff.

And when we talk
about everything.

And everything listening
and they mean people

have smart thermometers.

They've got 'em, their
TV monitors will have

smart speakers or their
TV is voice command.

I mean, I even remember
reading an article.

I thought it was
kind of interesting.

They had a secure
computer that wasn't

hooked up to the
internet and they

said, this is, this
is our secure device.

No one can get
information off

it off here.

There's other
computers around

it that were hooked
up to the internet.

But this one wasn't
and this was supposed

to contain all of the
sensitive information,

uh, in order to
breach that one.

So they could
remotely access.

This computer that
wasn't hooked up.

They actually had
someone to go in and

physically just take a
thumb drive and upload a

program to the computer.

But once that program was
on there, it would cause

the, um, computer to
load more into its memory

and heat up and the fan
would come on and then

it would take it off.

It would cool off.

And they're able to
basically through a

Morris code signature as
a computer, heated and

cooled another computer
that was beside it, that

was hooked up to the
internet, could sense

those heat variations
and very, very slowly.

They could get some,
uh, information

off that computer.

So, wow.

You know, you think about
it, someone someone's

found a way around
it or even, you know,

have you ever played
with like, um, laser

beams for, uh, audio.

No, not really.

No.

So you can, you can
actually transmit, uh,

audio through light
and you can use laser

for concentrated,
um, uh, pickup and

reception of, uh, audio.

So if you want it to,
you can use a non-visible

IRR layer, like visible
to the human eye and

reflected off of let's
say glass, and you can

pick up those harmonics
and listen on somebody

as far as that laser
beam can transmit.

So the, this
is new to me.

I haven't even heard
about this technology,

but from what I've
learned, what we know.

What is actually
in existence is way

further down the

line.

If I played with, as a
kid, I can only imagine

what they have now.

Yeah, because in the
private sector where

I was working in the
corporate espionage

world, we'd have
specialists that

would come in to
other companies, maybe

not, where are me.

And, uh, they would
do this sort of Wi-Fi

exploitation and, uh,
hacking of cell phones.

Cause that is the golden,
uh, little gold nugget

that you can track people
wherever they go in.

You can learn about
every email, everything

that they do.

And it's a very big deal.

Um, so people that
have been doing this

in a, in a professional
setting for governments

tend to move in the
later in their career.

So.

Move into the
private sector and

carry this technical
Knology with them.

Um, but yeah, so it's
not a good thing, but

these aren't the only
people that are using it.

Criminal organizations
are now going down

this line of work.

And so obviously hackers
organizations to exploit

people for money.

One that's come around.

My friend group recently
over in Vancouver, um,

some females that are
friends of my partner

have got emails saying
that they're, they have

images of them when
they're in their most

intimate times, ranged
from their cell phones.

Um, They've had,
uh, reports to the

police about this and
they judged that it

was a fraud thing,
but it happens to

girls that we know.

Um, and whether that is a
fraud or not, it's still

a very stressful thing
to go through someone

that's saying that if
you don't give us this

money, then we're going
to put on naked pictures

on the internet, on
this website of you.

And that's the thing
that's happened

to celebrities.

And I know it's happened
to people in the

world, uh, and we're
going to be going into

this sort of world
now where everything

can be exploited and
every electrical device

does have weaknesses.

Um, so I think like,
Measures can be taken,

like for instance, a
camera coverup on your

cell phone, you just
flip across when you

want to use your camera.

That's not a, an
extreme thing.

People use them for
their laptops, but

mark, Zuckerberg's
got it on his laptop.

Um, but yeah, and
it's just, um, just to

safeguard really, like
you don't really want

anybody watching you or
taking pictures on your

phone or listening in
on you, uh, any time,

whether that be like a
government organization,

a criminal organization
or hackers or anyone.

Um, so I think we have
to take that aspect

into consideration now.

And I'm a big advocate
for that because I was a

little bit in that world
and it really surprised

me how the public sector
are so advanced that

so advanced and, you
know, people talk about,

I mean the firearms
training side of things,

uh, I've talked to
different law enforcement

types that will say.

I don't want to teach
law enforcement tactics.

I don't want to teach
what we're doing in

the, uh, in the firearms
training or, uh, uh,

anything on the, uh,
use of force side

because the bad guys
might get ahold of this

and they might want
to use it against us.

And I've always
scratched my head at

that one because the
bad guys already know

if they've got access
to the intranet, they're

going to have access
to your tactics and

what you do might not
be completely drawn out

for them, but all that
information is out there.

And I've always been
a strong proponent of

share that information
and let it get measured

against what the bad
guys can do or not, or

what other people do or
not, and build better

and build it stronger.

And if you can create
something that's so

robust, it doesn't
matter what they do,

where they don't know,
um, that you're still

able to achieve your.

That's perfect.

All right.

Yeah.

And that that's sort
of been, uh, sorta

my thinking, but

yeah.

And then that's also
comes into the training

that I teach on
Instagram and stuff with.

I go into a lot of
surveillance drills

and like to teach
people how to detect if

they're being followed
and line of hat to tow

that I don't want to be
given away drills that

could affect operators
out on the ground and

right in the military
or in the, in the

intelligence services.

Um, but the reality
is that the game is

changing a lot and, um,
real foot surveillance

is still a big aspect,
but you can get so

much more information
from, uh, electronical

surveillance these
days, um, that this has

benefits for civilians
for some of this

training, I think, um,
because criminals aren't

really going to be so.

Up-to-date on
surveillance,

drills and things.

And if you're not a
fighting person, or

if you're not capable
of fighting on the

street, or you don't
want to, which a lot

of people aren't, and
they need some other

tools or tactics to get
out of uncomfortable

situations when a guy
could be following your

home from the train
station, for instance.

And that's a big thing
that I tried to touch

on because I want to
give people a plan

because most people
don't have a plan.

It's just hope for
the best, or I don't

know, think of it
when it happens.

So most people
have, it'll never

happen and you know,
I'll deal with it.

When my daughter, I
purchased your course

for my daughter,
she's loving it.

And she's got
her workload.

She's not done it yet.

It's quite a long
course, but she's

working her way through.

You've got a lot of good
information in there

and she's coming down
and she's telling me

things she's learning.

She's 14 years old and
there's things that.

I will have said to
her, but I'm sure it's

going to come across
in a different way

or from some, from
yourself as an authority

that will hopefully
stick in a little

bit, uh, differently.

And, uh, it was
interesting because a

few weeks ago she went
to the library with a

friend of hers and she's
coming back and she was

getting harassed by a
couple of boys on bikes.

And they're just sort
of typical adolescent

sort of thing.

But in hindsight, looking
at it, she was, uh,

quite upset with herself
because she didn't

feel that she reacted
in the proper way or

nothing happened out
of the whole incident.

But, um, uh, it's a first
time that she's been in

this sort of a situation.

Yeah.

And there is a lot of,
uh, just being upset

cause he says, I know you
said this, I know that

I, in hindsight, I should
have done a, B and C.

And I think doing a
course, like the one

that you have there,
it normalizes and

standardizes responses
within people.

It's one thing for
dad to say, Hey,

you should do this.

It's another thing to
just say, Hey, this is

how it's normally done.

Right.

And that's social
acceptance, I guess,

behind it will cause
somebody to hopefully

make the right
decision more quickly.

Cause I think a lot of
people are just stuck

by not wanting to look
rude, not wanting to

do something that's not
normal or not socially.

Yeah.

That is a big one.

And it's good that
she recognizes it

and is going to
improve what she did.

And that is part of
why I made the course

is because of the
experiences that I've

had and the people
that I've learned from.

Um, and when you're
growing up and you're

young, you need to
make these mistakes.

And I'm trying to
give them a bit of

a li like guidance.

So they don't make
the big mistakes.

Right.

They have a plan.

If things go
the wrong way or

recognize it early on.

Um, so I'm really happy
that she's taken the

cautious benefit from it.

That because this is
the demographic, I'm a

father myself, and it's
partly why I created it.

And also, uh, it's,
I'm happy that she's

actually taking the
course because a lot of

people of our age group,
aren't going to take it.

You know, they're not
going to be interested

in it unless something
bad has happened.

So it's also out there.

People can get it for
free or pay what they can

and fathers or mothers
who are protective,

um, take the course
and then slowly filter

that information.

The important stuff
down to the people that

need it, or the people
that don't really look

for it, but you can
teach them the most.

That was part of the idea

as well.

It's smart, you know,
What's it called

it's self-defense
without fighting.

Yeah.

And it's specifically
geared around situational

awareness and geared
towards women.

Yeah.

But I, everything
that's in there is

also applicable to men.

Yeah.

And there will be other
courses coming, but that

was the first project.

Um, um, mainly because
of my partner suggested

it and said that she
had learned a lot

from me and she would
like to help out.

And also there's a lot
of incidents that happen.

Like Vancouver recently,
there was a lady that

was followed all the
way through Chinatown

and she actually got a
phone out and videoed

the guy following her.

And I've done an
analysis of that video

is quite scary thing.

Cause the guys knows that
he's what he's doing.

He's a, he's a
recurrent offender.

We find out later
down the line.

He's not phased that
she's filming him and he

gets very close at times.

And luckily it was
in the daytime.

And luckily this lady
goes and associates

herself with a group
of skaters in a skate

park, which is something
that I teach, um, called

apparent allies is
to associate yourself

with another group or
person or a good thing

as an authority figure.

And that's like an
action plan that is quite

obvious to us to do,
but so some people, they

might not think of that,
especially if they're

in a panic situation.

Um, so yeah, there's
just different

options like that.

I think if you're not
inclined to fight or

you haven't trained in
fighting them fighting,

probably isn't your
best option in a lot

of scenarios, but
then there is, uh, a

scenario when fighting
is your only option to

be good at fighting.

You have to train.

So I do send that
message out as well.

It's important to have
some experience or train.

Yeah.

And there's definitely
something to be said

for someone who's can
carry themselves with

the confidence, knowing
that they can fight.

In order to be able
to mitigate a fight.

And I remember even
just looking like in my

youth as a, as a bouncer
and just looking at

the, the human dynamic
in a bunch of guys in

a nightclub alcohol's
involved and it would

always be funny when a
person comes up and says,

oh, you're a big guy.

And they started trying
to test you out and

try you out and on,
maybe we should fight.

Let's fight mana.

I don't want to fight.

Okay.

And he watched him sort
of escalate and ramp up.

The more you say you
don't want to fight the

more aggressive they
get in that turned.

Okay.

Let's fight.

No, no, no, no.

And we'll come back
down and then it would

kind of be a fun little
game where I just kind

of watch and we just
play it back and forth

and watch it go up and
down and up and down.

Just sign to see
exactly where their,

their threshold is that
they're not in there.

Uh, Probably not in their
best, most cognitive

place at the time.

Oh, definitely plays
a big part in that

doesn't especially
work in the doors.

I did that myself.

Yeah.

It's a great training
ground to watch

human behavior, to
the influence of

alcohol as well.

And there's no mistakes.

There's no question
about who is the most

aggressive and it's
men, isn't it even

a hundred percent.

And that's something
that I do push out

in my course, because
it's just the fact,

and there's no way you
can hide from that.

Um, they we've, we've
done bad things in

the past as a, as a
gender, you know, so we

can't hide from that.

We need to
acknowledge it.

And the aggression
between men and women

can be different too.

I remember a grandfather
and father, uh,

Vancouver police.

I don't know when it
came in, probably in

my grandfather's day,
but the, um, I guess

anti stalking laws.

Being relayed to me how
they brought in some

new anti stalking laws,
because they figured

the, um, ha would have a
tool that they can use a

boat against men who were
stalking their wives.

And they were surprised
to find that the majority

of people that they found
that were stalking, at

least at that time were
women stalking men.

But I guess the big
difference was is that

when a woman's stocked a
guy, it didn't typically

end in the same level
of violence than when a

man is stalking a woman.

So, you know,
there's men just.

Genetically, whatever
it is from a simple

profiling perspective or
the when's that these,

uh, uh, women should
be looking out for.

And a lot of it is
common sense as well.

So a lot of the course
I do drill on home, like

common sense topics, but
most people that take

the course and learn
about it and say, oh

yeah, I didn't really
think of it in that way.

And it's just
highlighting what we

instinctually know
anyway, as human

beings, you know?

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, I just
looking at other angles

and the things that
I've learned throughout

my core career and
teaching to the general

population for an

public.

Well, that's what I mean
about normalizing it.

I mean, somebody can
just know, they can

know what to do and
still not do it because

they just, it doesn't.

It's not something that's
sort of ingrained as

this is how you respond.

Like if you act in a
certain way against

me, instinctually,
I will, I'll have

some gut reactions
and gut feelings.

But if I realize that
it's acceptable and

normal for me to take
the next couple of steps,

like a person doesn't
have to hit me first for

me to hit them the fights
already on before they,

once they're in my space,
that fight is on, right?

Yeah.

Uh,

that comes with
experience as well.

Doesn't it read in that
behavior that is being

presented to you and
the first time you're in

that experience, you're
not going to know when

that punch is coming.

Right.

You're also not going
to know how to get

out the way of it.

So yeah, that's when
the day of the race

happens, it's good to,
uh, not be in the street

in a real situation.

It's good to be in a
training environment.

First, you have a bit of
a, a backup of what to

do.

Now you do a fair
bit of a training

yourself, don't

you?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

I like a boxer by
trade I'd say from a

young age and I did it
in the Royal Marines.

Um, one of the Royal
Marine light heavyweight

POCs in championship
light, heavyweight.

I looked a bit different
then, but it was muscle.

Good for you.

Hey, I know I do
mixed martial arts and

particularly my interest
is in jujitsu because

it is a very good sport.

I love it.

I wish I found it a
long time ago, but

yeah, fighting's always
been a part of my,

my life and also my.

Growing up my culture,
as well as English man,

you know, Queensberry
rules, bare knuckle

box in and stuff.

I was actually looking
into bare knuckle

box in it's quite
barbaric, but also it's

kind of traditional
for my heritage

has been English.

You know, it's an
interest, although

it is, it's a bloody
sport and it is

quite a niche thing.

Right.

I can see why fans will
be turned off from it,

but it's quite raw,
but that's maybe in the

works in the future.

Have you done

that before?

Well, yeah, many times,
but not in a ring.

I hear that, but I
did have arranged

fights as a youngster.

Like I was a lad and
I had a reputation

and people would come
into our town and I'll

meet them and fight
them in like parking

lot and stuff like.

Yeah, which isn't
advisable, it's not a

great thing to do, but
that was part of my life.

And I didn't
do that stuff.

So yeah, I do have
experienced some bare

knuckle boxing in that
respect, but I always

adhere to Queensbury
rules, which is like,

you fight standing up and
then one goes down and

then either they give up
or they get back up and

you continue the fight.

And I always did to that,
and that's quite like a

gentleman's agreement.

And so did most of the
people that I had trouble

with in the past, in my
generation, but that's

not the case anymore.

Isn't it?

And I've experienced
the other end of

that, like getting
dropped and then people

continuing the fight
when I was unconscious.

And I actually had.

Face, uh, I've got metal
plate in my face here,

uh, and reconstructive
surgery, cause some

stamping on my head
and stuff, you know,

for me, that is on it's
just so disrespectful.

You know, there's an
honor in, in, in a bit of

combat on the street for
when I was doing it in

my day and light, it was
more of a pride thing.

It's an ego driven thing.

It's definitely stupid.

Sure.

But it, it happened,
but to take it further

to stamp on someone's
head over a spilled

drink outside of a pub
is not really, there's

no honor in that, but
that is the reality

we're in these days.

And also that's why
I'm teaching fighting

as a last resort.

If you're getting into
a fight, that's, you've

made some mistakes,
the weekly focus on

mainly not to get
to that point in the

first place, you know?

Yeah, no, you're
on the ground.

You can expect to have
everybody else kicking.

Right.

And you're fighting
one person.

You can expect there to
be more than one person.

It's a.

Yeah, absolutely.

A hundred percent
good to know how to

fight and then throw
that in the Bach back

pocket and use it in an
absolute last resort.

Yeah, it's on top of
that, the prevalence of

people carrying weapons,
um, whatever it is or

picking one up that
they look around and

they can use whatever
they want as a weapon.

And it's a.

Being able to, you know,
another big part of that

skill set, which I think
is important is number

one, just, uh, uh, you
know, the awareness and

the avoidance, and being
able to put yourself

in the most beneficial
position so that you

don't, uh, find yourself
at the altercation

or interaction
to begin with.

But number two, and it's
something that, uh, some

people are very good at.

He is sort of like
the verbal judo, and I

think that's actually
trademarked verbal judo.

Yeah.

So you got to call
out tact, tactical

communications.

The police used to
call it verbal judo,

and now they call them
tack comms because

they guess it's, it's
actually trademarked.

And then being able to
deescalate a situation

through proxemics through
your body language,

through your, uh, verbal,
through your non-verbal.

And that's, that's
a huge art form is.

Yeah.

Yeah, that is.

And unfortunately,
I'm, I'm a beginner

in that art form and
I'll openly admit that

that's something that
I have to work on.

And I have been working
on insecurity as a

body guard because, you
know, you can't just go

into a scrap when he's
trying to really looking

after someone, right.

This deescalation is
extremely important and

I'm proficiency in it.

But growing
up, I was not.

So there was always
a, I knew when the

fight was on and then
we got to the fight.

So that whole
awkward, like I hate

the confrontation.

I hate standing in front
of someone and they'd

like threatening me
or, or saying, they're

going to do something.

They're going to do
something, do it.

Right.

It's like this whole
thing, like either we

go in and we're not.

So that was my mentality
as a youngster, but

that got me into more
trouble than, than if

I was good at talking
my way out of things.

And that was a gap
in my skillset.

This has been, but
also, oh, it was.

Truffle.

Thank you myself.

that's all part of
the learning process.

Yeah.

Like you say, hopefully
you make those mistakes

in small doses and in
ways that you could

recover from and really
ingrained and learn from

them, like my daughter,
nothing happened and

there is, she recognizes
things that could have

been done differently.

Small mistake
build upon it.

That's fantastic.

This is great experience
for people to go

through.

Yeah.

Great.

That she came and talked
to you about it as well.

And that shows that
you got a great

relationship there.

I think.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

try really hard.

That's a, that's one
thing that's one of

my life priorities is
have a strong family.

Yeah, we do.

I could, I could care
less about anything else.

If push comes to shove
that makes sure we've

got a strong family unit.

Same with my kids.

I let them know,
you know, some point

something could happen
to your mom or me.

You guys gotta be able
to look after each other.

You got to just gotta
be able to know.

You're confident to
look after yourselves

and you're always
there for each other.

So we ingrained that
very deeply, as well

as the honesty part.

I don't care.

Just like what
you're talking about.

The integrity part.

Th it doesn't matter,
you gotta be honest.

Right?

You gotta let us know
we'll work through it.

Yeah.

That's a very
important point for

parenting as well.

And that's the
journey that I'm on.

Uh, hence why all
this training and

that, and try and
prepare my daughter

for the outside world.

And I have a bit of a
warped perception of the

outside world, because
I've been in the dark

side of it a lot of
the time, you know, and

preparing to deal with
the dark side of it

has been my job and it
still is, but yeah, I'm

kind of this balance.

Isn't there, you have
to be prepared, spreads.

What do they say?

It's to be a warrior
in a garden rather

than a gardener in

a war.

Yes.

Um, and that preparation
thing is going to be

difficult too, because
of your background and

because of what you've
seen in the world, As

you say, being warped.

I don't know.

It just, it
is what it is.

It's it's the world
and it's just how

you've viewed it.

Being able to impart
what you need without

warping your daughter's
version of the world as

he grows up, it doesn't
matter what we do.

I'm sure we're going
to make mistakes.

There's going to be
something they look

back on, but that's,
um, that's a difficult,

tight rope I should
imagine for, for

you to work through.

Yeah, yeah.

Obviously as a protector
self-defense is at the

forefront, but I think
that it should be it's,

especially for jujitsu.

If you learn jujitsu
from a young age,

The ability to free
up your whole life.

I don't know what
better skill or any sort

of self-defense are.

You could give to a
child or to a young

person, to be honest,
because then you

carry that confidence.

And that knowing that
if something goes bad,

I have some experience
or I have some moves or

an idea of what I can
do my own capabilities.

So I do have an idea
of getting out and then

I'll be more confident
in her going out and

doing all this traveling.

Like I did, you
know, travel.

I traveled a
lot on my own.

Um, and I'm going to
be doing a course of

solo travel, which is
going to incorporate

a lot of situational
awareness and stuff.

Because as a body
guards, that was one of

my niches is taking a
family on their vacation.

And quite often in
Europe, um, they

only want one.

Bodyguard one protector.

Um, and they don't
really want you hanging

off their shoulder
all the time as a

petition, traditional
body guard would do.

And this was a niche
that I had to fill and

they're the client.

They pay the bills, so
they don't want to see

you around them, but they
still want a protective

bubble around them.

And you're just
one person in a

foreign country.

So I have to deal with
that sort of in the, the

reality is that you can't
protect them a hundred

percent, but you can have
contingencies in place.

And that is basically
life isn't it

contingencies in place,
but you can't always

be fully protected.

Yeah.

And you talk about
the martial arts and

jujitsu at an early age.

That's a very important,
the one thing that I

always try to hammer home
and I still do with my

kids is the ability to
use her voice and scream

and create witnesses.

And even if you know,
the, um, the police

teach it as well, right.

They tell us someone's
dropped that one.

Well, why would I
tell a person to

drop that weapon?

If I didn't see if they
had a weapon or not?

Well, you just created
a whole bunch of other

people around, let's say,
oh, that guy's probably

got a weapon, right?

So you're, you're
protecting yourself in

the instance, you're
using your voice

and allowed way, but
you're also creating

witnesses, which you've
got your incident.

Pre-incident,
let's avoid it.

Incident K fight sawn
and post incident.

Man, that's going to be
with you for a long time.

Everybody can go and
look over this and if

it reaches a courtroom,
you're going to be into

it for a number of years.

And then it's in the
back of your head for

the rest of your life.

So how do you deal
with that whole

post-incident thing?

And if you can create
witnesses that might be

able to help you with
the, or the legal side,

and if you're taking
the proper steps, like

what you've put together
in your course here,

that can hopefully, uh,
help the, the mental

reframing of, of what
happened to be a bit

more of a positive thing.

Even if it's you did
everything right.

And this is a
learning experience.

Yeah.

And there's also aspects
of my course that goes

into, after an incident,
how do we get this bad

guy off the streets in
the most effective way?

How do we report it to
the police and how do

we memorize important
things about them?

So speaking to retired
police officers and

they say, it's, yeah,
it's good to have a full

description, but when all
the chaos is happening,

it's good to remind them
about one distinctive

thing about this person
that can't be changed.

And that's an obvious
thing, like a scar

or a tattoo or some
facial feature that

you is distinctive.

And you would remember,
and could be found when

they're walking around
the street or, and it

also could be identified
on a lineup as well.

So yeah, I do go into
this and I wrote an

ebook that was part of
the course, which is

attached to it about
after the incident.

So there's a lot of
things and even goes

into active shooters
and things like that

and what to do because.

Yeah, there's a lot of,

to have to take
this course.

I got it for my daughter.

I'm going to have
to take this course.

Yeah.

So this is an ebook,
this attached to it,

which is just a little
side thing, but it's

actually, I could
probably ever wanted to

sell it on its own as a
book because it's, it's

a lot of my knowledge.

Various experiences
into one thing.

And also I've got a
connection with like

police officers, other
special forces guys

who are currently
in, um, intelligence

agency staff.

I've worked amongst
these people with time

and security experts,
and I just bounce

my ideas off them.

And then they say other
ideas and I collate

them into my courses
and my training.

So it's a perfect setup,

actually kidding.

So we're going to have
links on both on the,

uh, the YouTube and
on the podcast and

people can pull it
up and whatever they,

their podcast provider
and it'll link over.

We'll make sure we have
links that, that, so

people can check it out.

Um, one of the other
things that, uh, uh,

we've been talking about
a little bit, which I

don't know much about,
but I'm loved learning

and I'm learning more
on, and that's about,

uh, uh, dealing with
stress and after-action

stress and all the rest.

I mean, it's, um, It
seems to be an area of

science and psychology
that is rapidly changing

rapidly growing and
people are taking new

and unique approaches
to helping people

work through that
whole after action.

After where there's
PTSD, post-traumatic

stress disorder.

Yeah.

I think they're actually
trying to move away

from calling it a
disorder, but, um, Uh,

or it's just anxiety or
depression or whatever

else related to dealing
with the after-action.

And that's something
that you've had some

experience with.

Yeah,

well, personally,
I didn't get to

fulfill my job of
going on operations.

I'll have other
experiences in my life

where I've had violent
experiences, but I'm an

in around people that
have been to war multiple

times and had, and also
now I'm around police in

the security industry who
have had very horrendous

experiences while on
the, in the line of duty.

I've become a fascination
of mine, of how

they deal with it.

And also I have a lot of
sympathy for them doing

their job to protect
us in our society.

Um, especially obviously
the military guys and

girls, but also the
police who I don't feel

get the credit of the
military do because

they literally, they run
operations every day.

They don't really
have any downtime.

Um, and now I have
someone close to me that

deals with PTSD as well.

And I've been looking
at other avenues for

help, um, and therapy
and all the normal

avenues of see good.

And I'm not a scientist,
I'm not a psychologist

myself, but I do read and
research a lot of things.

And in the past two
years, I've gone down

some rabbit holes.

That's led me to
psychedelic assisted

therapies, um,
particularly for

veterans PTSD.

And I really delved
into this subject.

I can't believe what
I've found and I can't

believe that it's not
accessible for people.

And I think it will be
in coming years because

the studies and the
science behind it is so

overwhelmingly positive.

Um, but I think we need
to jumpstart that now

because suicide rates are
through the roof and we

all have personal people
that we know, especially

in my background as a
lot of guys particular,

I say guys, because I
know Ron Marines is all

men and stuff anyway,
that are struggling.

And there's a lot of
stigma around talking

about things and every
person in the police

or in the military
that I know have been

to combat and have
traumatic experiences.

The recurring theme is
that they don't get the

support that they need.

And I know that there's
a lot of people were

annoyed with the
military service and

stuff because of.

Chewed up and spat out.

And that is the
reality for me.

What I've seen that
is what happens

no longer useful.

So you're gone and
the machine just

keeps rolling and
you're just a waste

product out the side.

Um, and there's some
organizations out

there helping and
some support, but they

need something else.

And the whole psychedelic
assisted therapy is

something that I've
been reading about and

research and, and about
to make a big step in

my life, uh, to move
down to Costa Rica,

uh, where there's some
actual centers, there's

iowaska therapy centers,
and also psilocybin,

which is the main one
that I'm interested in,

where veterans can travel
down and bypass because

obviously there's legal
parameters in Canada

and my home country
and America, which are

slowly been challenged
now in the FDA.

Looking at psilocybin
is a medical, um,

medical substance,
uh, for people, right.

But it's taken
time and there's a

stigma around it.

And it's the public's
perception, which is

blocking it in my mind.

I think it's, as soon
as the public changed,

then the politicians
will get hold of it

when they realize that
people support it.

And then this could
be an avenue that is

like literally like
a magic pill, um,

for people that are.

Struggling.

And I've had other
avenues of support.

This isn't the be-all
and end-all, I'm

not saying it is.

I just feel like it
should be an option to

people who are maybe
on their last legs

have got nowhere to
turn or they're alone,

and they don't want to
talk to anybody else.

Then why, who who's
to say that you can't

allow someone to take
a substance in a,

like a medical setting
with a therapist

they're not taking
mushrooms and running

around the forest?

Not saying that

I, um, there's a fellow,
his name will come

to me and he's got a
podcast called diary of

a CEO, British fellow.

And he had a, uh, an
individual, uh, who is,

uh, operating on the
forefront of, uh, using

siliciden I guess, and
other substances for

treating depression
and anxiety and PTSD.

And this guy went down
to Costa Rica as well.

And if I'm recalling it
correctly, And he was

talking about, um, he
was referencing and I've

never crossed, checked
your cross reference

there, but referencing
a lot of different, uh,

uh, scientific articles,
Stephen, Stephen's

something Bartlett it'll
come to me anyways.

Uh, I find it
well, I find it

really interesting.

I mean, from the PTSD
side, we had taught Hi-C

from veteran hunters
who deals with veterans

with PTSD and, uh,
uses hunting as a way

to be present and out
in the, in the woods.

And, uh, he was, I
learned a lot from

him talking back and
forth about the people

he works with and the
struggles that he's had

and, uh, how PTSD is
something that is, um,

constantly changing.

I mean, I think the
DSM four defined

it in one way.

DSM five has changed
that and kind of changed

the term of trauma, what
that actually means.

And, and they're
starting to learn

that you can actually.

Pass on some of the, uh,
the traits to your kids

apparently, and to your,
to your family members,

because you either are
experiencing it from your

directing experience.

You're dealing with it
indirectly, let's say

like a, a 9 1, 1 operator
or you're dealing with

it through, um, I forget
there's a third way

that they mentioned, but
essentially like your

kids coming back and
seeing how you operate

and deal with things.

And yeah, so there's,
there's a lot of

information out there.

Um, like I said, I
haven't done, uh, my

own personal research
on it, but the one thing

that always has struck
me is the reluctance

for people to come
out and talk about it.

And the stigma that's
associated with, um,

looking at alternative
medicine or alternative.

Ways to deal with
with anything, right.

I mean, let's not get
started about some of

the other things that
are going on in the

world at the moment,
but, um, I, I guess

traditionally they've
had talk therapy, right.

And they just try and
rewire the brain and

generate new neural
pathways through, uh,

uh, helping a person
experience an event

or, uh, relate to an
event differently.

Or they've got, uh,
anti-psychotics or

antidepressants and,
uh, the selective

solar serotonin
re-uptake inhibitors,

the SSRI or SNRI or
whatever they have.

And that's just where
everyone's been looking.

And, uh, when you
started talking a bit

about the, like, let's
say psilocybin for the

treatment of depression
or PTSD or anxiety,

obviously I've heard
about this before,

but I started, I just
started at scratch the

tip of the iceberg.

There's a lot of.

Information out there,
but it seems like people

have been looking at this
for a very long time.

How come, how come?

We're not at a point
here where people are

willing to kind of
take that next step.

Everything looks
experimental.

Yeah.

It's because of the
war on drugs, back in

the day in the sixties,
you know, they were all

categorized as the same,
a class sort of thing.

And there was a
lot of, there's a

campaign against it.

And that goes back to the
war in Vietnam and all

the hippies basically.

Um, but since that time
that is affected our

perception of it over
my perception, what I

learned in school, I'm
sure what you learn

in school and stuff.

Only recently in the
two thousands that

studies have been
allowed to happen

again, and it's really
grown some momentum.

Um, and I can't
cite the studies

cause I don't have a
good enough memory.

Uh, but the things that
I've read and seen for

one instance, uh, which
Jordan Peterson talks

about, uh, after one
psilocybin session, um,

for smokers, 80% of the
people that were smoking

actually quit smoking.

And then three months
down the line had still

not had a cigarette
since that session.

And it isn't just
taking mushrooms.

It's like integration,
uh, and talking

about afterwards.

Um, and the, the
results from that is

astounding really.

Um, and for similar
things like that,

I've read about.

I actually have found
that psychologists and

psychiatrists are quite
welcoming of this new

age of the psychedelics
coming in because

they've been, their
hands have been tied.

They haven't had
the tools or the

medicines really.

They they're given
all these drugs, that

kind of numb symptoms.

Um, but psilocybin and
other substances are

used in the right way can
actually cure the source

of the pain, um, in a
way, which is incredible.

That's what we
need right now.

And not just for PTSD,
but was a higher number

of depressed people
around the world.

Lots of other issues,
uh, even addiction

and maybe not.

So the cyber, but other
substances, I Boca teen,

I think I'm saying that
right, but maybe not,

um, is, is very powerful
in Q1 addiction of

opioids, for instance.

So I think this is
something that is

going to be exploding
over the next few

years, but I think we
need to look at it.

And I'm also in contact
with an organization

called heroic hearts,
where they're bypassing

the legal requirements
of, uh, the United

States and England
and send in veterans.

It's a charity to a,
there's a center in Costa

Rica and a few round that
region of south America,

uh, to have experiences,
uh, and, and deal with

their traumas in this
way and having a lot

of positive results.

Um, and it's a question
that I don't see the

argument because the
people that are going

are already in pain
and they've already

most of the time.

Going through every
avenue available

to them and they're
looking for help.

And if some of those, if
five out of 10 of those

come back and have a
positive outlook on it.

And I can tell you
it's more than five

from my experience of
speaking to people and

reading the studies.

There's, there's no
downside to that.

In my opinion,

I, you know, what I've
always found interesting

is personal find
themselves in a situation

where they've got some,
some mental health

problems and, and, uh,
mental health has always

had this social stigma.

Can't talk about it.

You're weak.

If you have mental health
problems or whatever

it is, and it be a
sort of hidden away.

I like the fact that it's
being talked about more.

I mean, with COVID, I'm,
there's lots of people

that are struggling
with trying to keep a

business going or have
social connections or,

um, mental health is,
is being talked about,

I think anyways, on,
on a greater scale,

But you, you look at
the, um, you take a

look at the approach
to the mental health.

And the one thing that
has kind of stuck out

in our conversations
is, uh, you can, you

can do talk therapy
and that's good, bad.

It can provide people
with framework and

tools to work with.

And, but you gotta have
somebody who's matched

up to your personality
and mean if you've got

somebody who's an ex
military and they're

talking to with a
talk therapist who's

does not have the same
way, was completely

unable to relate.

It's not going to have
as much value, um,

there's medications,
but these medications

seem to be something
that are an ongoing.

Prescription.

And when that will
change as your body

chemistry changes,
because everyone's body

chemistry is different
and they're kind of like

just putting a little bit
of chemicals in the water

to see what color it
turns and what let's try

a little bit of this one.

Let's try a little bit
of that one and we'll

see how long it lasts
for until we have to kind

of change it up again.

But from the little
bit I've been looking

at, and that you've
been talking about,

um, these treatments
seem to be more

focused on single use.

Like I've seen, they've
got this dosing thing,

but it's also like single
event one and done, which

sounds like a magic pill.

And it sounds phenomenal.

Yeah.

Um, but I think that's
probably the most

interesting aspect
out of all of this.

If you can find something
where you don't have to

have an ongoing thing
to inhibit you, uh,

re-uptake inhibitors
or whatever it is, I

would guess that number
one, a person would

want to take a look
at what their, their

actual situation is.

Cause if you're, um,
working in a tiny

little cubicle every day
underneath fluorescent

lights for long hours
and going home and

you have no social
connections, so no social

network, and you're
doing that on a regular

basis, you can medicate
that person until the

end of the time, but
you're just, you're

just putting band-aids
on a problem, right?

Yeah.

So I would think a person
would really want to try

and drill down and assess
what their situation

is so they can change
it, lead a more healthy

lifestyle, more exercise,
better diet and better

social connections.

Um, but from what you've
been seeing, it sounds

like from your research
anyways, these, uh,

uh, these events, these
siliciden events, or

what did you call it?

A guided

citizen?

Um, like psychedelic
assisted therapy, that's

it?

Yeah.

These, these are more.

Uh, individual
thing, not like some

ongoing.

Yeah.

So it's a one session
of the psilocybin

with the iOS.

Can you do a few
sessions, but you don't

just rive and then do it.

It's.

A buildup of talking
about it, learning

about the substance
and the culture of

it as well, having
the session, and then

speaking with a therapist
afterwards, see, do

have this talk therapy
after which, which is

extremely beneficial if
you're going to do it.

And that's just set
aside, but in like a, a

medical setting for it
to happen inside Canada,

which there are clinical
trials Charles happened

in and Vancouver UBC
a instrument when this

is quite interesting,
why I've ended up in

this environment and
connected with these

people around here.

And also I've invested
in the industry

as well, because I
want to support it.

There's quite a
boom, the Shroom

boom for investment.

And a lot of those
companies are

based in banks.

Okay.

So quite forward thinking
in this country, I think

Canada could make that
step first and I hope

they do because they
do need something to

deal with a lot of the
problems, mental health

issues that we have
in the society here.

Um, but yeah, the,
the idea of it being

a one session thing
and not ongoing is

kind of unbelievable.

And if you don't believe
what I'm saying, I

do urge you to, um,
research and there's

one book that I've read,
um, called, uh, how

to change your mind.

Um, let me just think,
Michael Poland is the

author and he's a well
establish establish also

has been on the Joe Rogan
experience and things.

Um, and he was very much
against psychedelics.

And then he decided
to embark on this

journey where he, uh,
he took the substances,

researched a lot, and
then he wrote a book

about it and he changed
his perception of it.

And he challenges people.

Just think of it as a, as
a new medicine basically.

And it isn't going
to affect the

everyday person.

No one's coming to
your house is saying,

you need to try
this magic mushroom.

You know, we're talking
about a medicine for

people that need the help
and it's not something

that's new for me.

It feels very natural
that the fact that they

grow up on the fields,
like not far from here,

you know, mushroom with
the red one with the

close one.

We've got it in my kid's

school.

Yeah.

But that, isn't one
that you should use.

That's a bad one.

That's not psilocybin.

It's a different,

I might find some
bullets bullet, how

he's get in trouble.

Bullets, bullets.

You might sign some
bullets near that.

If you're looking for
like the king bullet

or anything else,
look for the enemy

to have a scarier.

Yeah.

I wouldn't advise
ever picking mushrooms

as a bad thing to
do, but, um, yeah.

That these things are
not like a synthetic

material that's made by
pharmaceutical companies.

These things grow all
over the world and

they've been used by
cultures in different

various parts of the
world for many years.

Um, as a medicine,
uh, I think we

should look at that.

I think it's something,
it says something.

And I'll tell you now
I've personally used, sat

aside psilocybin because
I don't want to advocate

for something that I
don't have experience on.

Um, so I've, I've done
two sessions personally.

Um, and what's it
like, uh, it wasn't

a mind blowing.

I wasn't seeing like
little creatures and

things like that.

Uh, it was done in
my house, in it,

like everything quiet
and in the darkness.

Um, take a dose and
then have a sitter

outside who would assist
me if I needed it.

Um, so

you're completely
alone as you're

going through this.

Process.

So you'd take it and
then you'd lie down

and be in darkness.

Preferably, and for
me, what I got out of

it was that basically
it grounded me and

showed me that I need to
focus on the important

things in my life and
not keep looking ahead

to the next thing.

Cause that's something
that I've had in me

from a young age, always
focusing on the next

goal, the next goal.

And I kind of can't do
that now that I have

a daughter, like her
reality is waking up

every day and I create
that because we're in

the same house, you know,
if I'm stressed about

work or finances that
affects her and this is

her life and it, it just
made me check myself and

think, right, this is
a bit of a reset here.

I need to focus on being
about husband of our

father, um, balance my
life, a bit more, um,

um, healthy person.

Anyway, I, I will
admit, um, but also.

Steered me towards
going out in nature.

We go on a lot more
hikes because of it.

Really?

Yeah.

It was a strange
experience.

And I wouldn't say
like, go and do

it, everyone do it.

I just did it because
I w I don't want to

be advocating for
something that turns

out to be a ludicrous
thing dangerous.

Um, and if it does
become a normalized

thing in society, then
it wouldn't be taken it

on your own and be in a
center retreat, or like

a medical setting where
you have professionals

to guide you.

Um, but for me,
I think it is.

It's something to be
looked at and not even

on your spiritual side,
a lot of the people that

are surrounded in this
area, um, particularly

when I go to Costa
Rica, I know that

they're cause they're
quite, um, hippy-ish

yeah, that's it.

It's taking their
crystals and washing

them and waterfalls
on a full moon.

That sort of thing.

These people are a bit
strange to me, but know

that they may, I may have
something to learn from

these people, especially
in the healing aspect.

Cause they seem quite
at peace with their life

and at one with nature.

And I think that's
something that we do need

as a society as well.

Um, but I'm experimenting
in terms of, I want

to try and advocate
because I think the

public perception is
the one, the big hurdle.

And because I have a,
a tick-tock following

and stuff like that, I'm
going to try and do some

work with heroic hearts.

Also I have my own
Tik TOK that I've just

started called do the
recce, um, recognizance.

Highlight studies
highlight information

that comes out just the
people couldn't look

at it and read and just
learn a bit more and

have a bit of an open
mind about the subjects

because yeah, I think
we're going in that

direction for a mental
health side of things.

I don't think there
should be too much

pushback if it's
shown to help.

From my opinion, it
has been shown to

help a lot.

Interesting.

Well, that spirituality
side I've read that some

people will have that
siliciden experience.

And up to a year
later still be feeling

the benefits of, I
guess, people call

it or refer to it as
sort of a profound,

spiritual experience.

And I guess spirituality
is going to be

something different
for everybody, right?

Whether it's some, some
person in the sky or,

or some connection with
nature or connection

with others or what,
whatever it is.

But that spirituality
feeling seems to

be pretty heavily
intertwined with the

whole siliciden thing.

Yeah.

And for me, I don't know
if I got this spiritual

side of things come
out, but I just had a,

uh, like a grounding
moment where I was.

Realize that I'm the,
like, I actually feel

like a tribesmen is
what came to mind

for me that I am a
protector of my family.

I'm a, like an alpha male
and don't hide from that.

Just that is who I am.

That's what I've grown up
being like, acknowledged

that that is what my
role in this family is.

I'm the protector here.

Um, and also realize
what's important.

And what is important
is my family like inside

these walls, in my home,
inside these walls of

my mind as well is,
uh, things that I need

to address and deal
with rather than just

looking at in the future.

If I get this, uh,
achievement, then

I'll be successful.

I'll be happy
once I get there.

And I don't do meditation
or anything like that,

but these spiritual
people were talking

about meditation.

I would like to go
down that avenue, but I

haven't experienced that.

Yeah.

Interesting.

And that, that statement,
I will be happy

when I'll be happy.

When I get there,
when I achieved

this, I'll be happy.

And that's, that's
something that I think

a lot of people can
really benefit from.

Uh, and, and I think, I
think there's a lot to

be said for meditation
as well, like you're

saying, but how do you,
uh, take a look at what

you currently have and
be happy for what you

currently do have, right.

And then there's
going to be people in

situations where yes,
there's going to be

things in their life.

They should be looking
at making a positive

change towards
which will probably

ultimately lead to more
happiness from them.

But so often I find
people are spending

their time comparing
themselves to what

their definition or
ideal of what happiness

should be and completely
missing the plot that.

What you're experiencing
in that moment is in

fact what most people
should strive towards.

Yeah.

I don't know if,
yeah, I agree.

And I'm trying to take
into account that the

older generation they're
giving me advice at

work and things, and
there's a lot of people

that are divorced in
my line of work, who

have spent their time
working and missed out

on spending time, their
children and their

wife they've neglected
attention to their wife

or, or, or caring for
them, uh, grown apart.

And I'm trying to look
at that and put that into

my own life and realize
what is important.

Uh, so yeah, I'm going
to go to Costa Rica.

I'm going to try
and work as a fixer

in the industry.

We call it a fixer.

So if people were
interested in, in, if

they're on their last
legs, that they, they

have nowhere to turn,
then I'm going to have

a site where you can
speak to me and I'll try

and organize and give
you just information

about the centers
and what happens.

And I'm just going to try
and expand my knowledge.

Um, most down there, make
connections and try and

help in any way I can.

And I've been in contact
with, uh, Jesse gold.

Who's the, the CEO of
the, um, who are at

carts, which is quite,
they had a New York

times article written
a couple of years back.

And they're like the
leader for veterans.

And there's one in
the UK as well, who

are at carts UK.

So we kind of try and
liaise with them and help

them out as well, because
they're doing great

work.

Very cool.

We'll get some
of those links.

We'll put them
on here as well.

So anybody who
wants to learn more

can look into it.

I find it fascinating.

I find it very
interesting.

I've talked to other
people that have been

through, uh, different
modalities for dealing

with their anxiety,
depression, or PTSD.

And, um, some people are
ardently against any sort

of narcotics based on
simply the social stigma.

And I know some people
have had family histories

of, um, had drug or
alcohol abuse and they

just, they have that
ingrained in their

mind has said they
won't even take doctor

prescribed medications.

But, um, I guess, you
know, the first step in

all of these things is
just sort of normalizing

the conversation.

And so.

Everyone being
different in different

body chemistries
and different mental

makeups and cognitive
and resiliencies

can start choosing
from the plethora of

different options that
are available there.

Cause maybe suicide.

One's great for one and
not for another maybe

talk scrape for somebody
and not somebody else.

I definitely

need a doctor or
a specialist to

decide these things
and siphon out the.

Would benefit
from it or not.

And I'm not that
person to do that.

I'm just trying to
push the, uh, th

the conversation,
you know, and bring

it to the forefront
of people's minds.

And I think because I was
in the special forces,

there's this, I think
where the people that are

at first in, you know,
where these are, the guys

that are jumping out of
airplanes, jumping out

of Hilos into the, into
the water, doing all

this dangerous stuff.

And then we should be
making this leap as

well, because we're the
leaders of the military.

Um, people look up to us
and if there is weight

behind what I'm saying,
if you don't believe

there is then have a look
yourself, do the recce.

If we can make this
change and help

our brothers, then
let's do it now.

That's my

perspective.

That's fantastic.

Sunny.

Is there anything
else that we should

be talking about?

Uh, I don't know.

I think, I think we've
covered quite a good

range of things we

did.

Yeah.

Do the you, I like it.

Yeah.

Thank you very much
for coming back on

its silver podcast.

I always enjoy speaking

with you.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks very much.

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