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THE podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor, and heart
Heidi (00:14)
Hey there. Welcome to evolving together the podcast for navigating all things midlife with honesty, humor and heart. I am your host, Heidi Sexton, and we are talking today about transitions and how we redefine our style as we get older and how it's all related. my guest with me is Susan.
and she is my BFF, my ride or die. I gotta stop saying that, but it's true. It's true. If you're the person, if I call you in the middle of the night and say, need your help, you put on that bra and you grab your shovel and you show up. So yes, that's my girl. she is.
Susan (00:41)
Ha ha ha!
I body. Yeah, that's right. Because I will bury body for you. So yeah.
Heidi (00:56)
pretty remarkable woman and not just because she's been my bestie for over 35 years, but she has had quite a career in marketing and a lot of transitions. And we talk about these things all the time. And I think this is an important conversation because well, you don't have to be in midlife to obviously have major transitions happening career wise and also wanting to redefine your style
The person that we reflect to the outside is what's happening on the inside. But definitely in midlife, are presented with lot of opportunities physically and in our relationships, but sometimes these things happen that we don't see coming and they're opportunities for growth.
evolving to be honest. you recently, Susan, had a pretty major transition at the end of mid last year. You were I'll let I'll let you share what what was going on and where you came from
Susan (01:50)
September. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sure, sure.
I would say, so just in terms of milestones, right, the transition back in September, I went from being in corporate marketing for I would say about 11 or so years. I've been in marketing for 30 some odd years, but the last 11 or so in corporate marketing and technology. And I got caught up in all of the layoffs that were kind of going around and infecting a lot of the technology companies.
And it wasn't necessarily a terrible thing in and of itself, right? But it was completely unexpected. So I think when I think about the transition from being, you know, gainfully employed, for the most part happy with what I was doing, to not being employed. And I'm sure there's a ton of people that can relate to what that's like and what's going on.
when it happens at a time in your life where you're already trying to figure out who you are as you're aging, because society is trying to tell you who you are as you're aging, ⁓ it did add a whole layer of just challenge in the whole thing. I mean,
I was already going through a little reflection. I used to pride myself in thinking I had a good sense of style for myself, right? I felt very confident in expressing myself through clothes and just, again, just how, what I liked and how I put things together.
And then COVID happened. And I think a lot of people can relate that during COVID when we were becoming more homebound, when jobs became more remote, when we did not have to put in as much effort on how we presented ourselves in the office and at meetings, and we only needed to look good from the waist up for Zoom calls, you know? That, that,
Heidi (03:48)
Right?
Susan (03:49)
I kind of stopped trying, I think like a lot of people, right? then COVID sort of everybody, society, right? We kind of caught up and...
And I still had to show up in public and I was showing up in public looking like who the heck is this person? And to add to that, I live in the South. I live in Georgia and this is not a diss on the Southern style, but that is not my style, but it's everywhere. And I got swept up in it thinking, okay, I live in the South. I'm going to get caught up in the Southern style and I'm going to wear pastels and puffy sleeves and you know, all the things.
and I'm like...
I just would look in the mirror and not be happy. Like this is not me. Like, and who the hell am I? I used to be this person over here. Now I'm getting older. I don't really have to be in public. I don't need to care as much in a way, but I do care. I don't want to look like I'm old. I don't want to dress like an old person, you know, that I'd have my daughter who would say, oh, that's like an old lady would wear that. I'm like, oh, damn it. I'm not an old lady. I mean, not
if there's anything wrong with that either. It's just like I didn't identify with any of this stuff. ⁓ So.
Heidi (05:03)
Well, can I just say too, you worked
from home for those 11 years, pretty much, I think, right? And you were actually working from home remotely way before it was a thing, way, way, before. And so it's kind of interesting to hear you say that when COVID hit, you kind of slacked a little bit too. mean, you...
Susan (05:08)
A lot, Yeah. Yeah, yes.
Yes, yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Heidi (05:27)
only had to look good from your shoulders up basically. for most of your career, unless you had a meeting, a face-to-face meeting, which wasn't very often. So it's interesting that when everybody started going remote, that also affected you in that way. I just, thought that was kind of interesting and.
Susan (05:30)
Yeah.
Right. No. No.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, it's
yeah, that's kind of that is kind of also interesting that you pointed out because before that before COVID even though I was working remotely, I was a little younger.
Maybe I was going out more. I don't know. I like I so I still felt like I was still a little more pulled together in that way. But I was slowly kind of my style was becoming still not me. Like I said, I living in the south around that time. I moved down here in 2013. So I got caught up in this whole southern style, which wasn't like I said, wasn't me.
And then I didn't have to put as much effort into what I looked like because I was working remotely and then COVID and then that was even more of like, no one cares, right? Like, and now I don't even go out. So why do I even care? Right? Like I'm not even being social anymore. And now I'm aging and now I'm like, I don't want to look like I'm trying too hard. Like I don't want to look like, you know, I don't want to look like I'm trying to dress like my 20 something year old daughter. So I have been
Heidi (06:46)
I ⁓ gosh, I know yeah
Susan (06:56)
And since then, really trying to figure out what is my style, which is very intricately connected to yourself, right, and where you are mentally and where you are in your life and what am I doing in this new sort of part of my life, right? Yeah, it's all intertwined. It's all intertwined.
Heidi (07:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, I remember one
time we went shopping and you were like, I don't actually have clothes to wear outside my house. And I thought, what? What do mean? And it never occurred to me that you could literally stay at your house for the entire week, not seeing another person unless online and maybe a trip to the grocery store. of course to me, that sounds like heaven, but.
Susan (07:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heidi (07:41)
I love being home. I love not leaving my house. takes, like people have to extract me. It's hard. You make a good dairy free cake, I'll show up anywhere. But I am not leaving my house hardly ever. I just remember thinking, that's really interesting. I never thought about that because I was a teacher for 14 years. And so I had my teaching clothes, which changed throughout that career because when I started, I was in elementary.
Susan (07:49)
Hahaha
Heidi (08:05)
and I would have a lot of cargo pants, and I would call them my squirrel pants, and I would stuff things in my pockets, because I was constantly running from room to room as an assistant originally, and I had to have my staple removers. I mean, I had everything in my pockets, because I was going room to room, and I didn't always know where the teachers had their things. And then I got my own classroom, and so then I could control the temperature in the room, and I didn't have to.
run miles through the hallway to different classrooms so I could wear cuter shoes and cuter outfits. And then I got to the high school level, you and so it's like my clothing changed with each transition, but I was still trying to stay true to me. And then I stopped teaching, I retired, and then I ended up spending a lot of time at home and then realizing I didn't actually have clothes to wear out. Like out in public, I don't mean out like.
Susan (08:47)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (09:00)
On a night out, I didn't have those either really. And I thought, this is what Susan was talking about. know, that like, who am I now? Because I got rid of most of my teacher clothes. A lot of those I wouldn't be caught dead within public. They were, they were functional clothing. They were professional. I could layer, I could mix and match. were not wrinkleable, wrinkleable, right? They weren't whatever they, they didn't wrinkle easily.
Susan (09:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
What is that word? Yeah.
Heidi (09:28)
They were just kind of, yeah, wrinkle-proof,
Susan (09:28)
Wrinkle proof.
Heidi (09:30)
thank you. They were nondescript, you know, and they definitely tended more towards the older person, except when I would wear my Converse high tops that I had in every color. So I had to redefine too, plus I'd put weight on. So when I started looking at the clothing, but even before I put weight on, the weight was adjusting and moving.
Susan (09:43)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah.
Heidi (09:51)
So I might get on a scale and weigh the same, but what is this around my rib cage and what is going on? And I got hip dents. I just learned what that is. It's like a hip dent.
Susan (09:51)
Yep.
What's that? I actually don't mind. wanted some hips. I actually
kind of like the fact that I was gaining weight in this whole like menopause, whatever, perimenopause the pauses. And ⁓ because I have no booty and I have no hips, that's a very Asian thing. And I kind of like the fact that I was getting a little like cushion around.
Heidi (10:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, if you're listening and you're not, if you're not watching the video,
Susan's a hundred percent Korean. So she's a, she's all Asian. No, no booty, but yeah.
Susan (10:28)
yeah, that's right. Yeah, you can't see me. that's right. That's why you can't see me. So yeah, so I like that. Yeah.
So I was, I was happy to get a little, you know, little rounder, you know, around, around that except for, yeah, like what the heck around the stomach like that. I didn't sign up for that. Just the hips and the booty. That's all I wanted.
Heidi (10:48)
No,
you still have legs of a 20 year old though, like your legs are killer, you know, but it's true. So you had this major transition from corporate, you do your own thing. I'll let you share a little bit about that.
Susan (11:01)
yeah,
right, okay. So I...
So what's interesting is actually while I was still in corporate marketing, to your point about I really had no reason to leave home, and there were studies, I think there have been studies that basically talked about the impact of working remotely and the isolationism and everything that happens. So I was really feeling that. And so I wanted to get out and I wanted some human interaction and some social connection. So I went and found a part-time job at a winery and I started working
at a tasting room on the weekends, very once in, know, once ⁓ maybe three times a month or something. So nothing huge, not a lot of hours, but it got me out. And that's when I started thinking, I have a reason to be out in public. How do I want to represent myself? Like, how do I want to be seen, right? ⁓ As an aging, aging Asian female of...
I started to think about that. And now what I'm doing after I got laid off, I started working for the same family that owned that winery. They opened up a wine bar actually closer to where I live. And I'm working for them, contract work. And I'm managing their events and marketing and all that kind of stuff. And I now also again have a reason to be out in public and to look nice and to figure
figure
out, again, how do I want to be seen, what do I want to exude, who am I, what does that look like? And so I've been having a lot of fun playing around with outfits. And I used to think that I had to kind of pick a style and stick with it. And I kind of knew this in the back of my head, but I always felt...
like I was breaking rules or something that I shouldn't be breaking. And now I'm like, I don't care if I'm breaking rules. So I'm going to wear whatever I want. And I'm feeling like a cowgirl one day. I'm going to wear my cowboy hat, my Western boots and that cute, you know, the jeans and the top. And then if the next day I want to look like I'm a grunge girl with my camo and my CBGB shirt, I'm going to wear that. And if I want to look like I just stepped out of a corporate meeting room and I want to wear my tailored pants and my nice little vest, I'm going to wear that. Like, I don't care.
Heidi (12:41)
Mmm.
Susan (13:05)
I think what I realized is my style is whatever it is that I'm in the mood for.
Heidi (13:09)
Yeah, it's really eclectic
and mine is too, depending on my mood. And I think that it's always been like that, but I feel there's that freedom in midlife. And then when you have the added transition of your work is changing, it's a liberation. But it does take a little effort to say, okay, am I wearing this because I want to?
Susan (13:18)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (13:37)
Am I wearing it because I used to wear it and that used to look good on me or am I wearing it because I, yeah.
Susan (13:42)
I did that. I used to do that a
lot. And I would wear it and I think, this doesn't work anymore. But I love it. But it doesn't work anymore. So what do I do? Then you're like, what do do then?
Heidi (13:51)
Isn't that, yeah.
And it's so weird because it's like you still, right, you still love it. And you had mentioned that, you know, that like more of a Southern conservative dressing, the puffy sleeves, which are very, very popular right now. And they look super cute on some people, but not everybody. And they're definitely not my style. And I can appreciate certain styles and fashion trends, but does not mean it works for me. Yeah.
Susan (13:58)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
That's exactly right, because I think
it's so cute, the ruffles and patterns. like, A, I wish I looked good in that. I'm short, so those can tend to overwhelm my frame, the puffs and the ruffles and the billowy kind of maxi kind of style, tiered styles. We called them baby doll dresses back in the 80s. Now they call them something else. yes, and all that.
Heidi (14:27)
Mm.
yeah, yeah. With the empire waistline, you know, and it's like, I looked
probably ridiculous then too, cause I'm tall and I have broad shoulders. So I probably looked goofy as hell, but I didn't, I liked it. I don't, maybe I didn't. I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to look back at pictures and be critical of myself and pass judgment.
Susan (14:41)
Yeah.
Yeah, it was quite, it was trendy then.
Well, you know, but the thing is
is that we were like, yeah, which is terrible thing to do is, but we were young. I mean, we were in our twenties. I mean, that was you look, that's the thing. You're in your twenties and you're doing that. Great. Now not being in your twenties, that's maybe not what you're looking for going for. But then there's some people that do. mean, style is all what works for you and what you're comfortable in really.
Heidi (15:01)
Exactly.
Yeah.
Well, and that's something
that I've just decided that, so we both went to Fashion Institute of Technology, so we both have degrees from there, and so, you know, the idea that we should be these fashionistas or something. I'm not up on very many trends. Even when I was, I've never been trendy. So, I had to redefine my style within myself and not,
Susan (15:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (15:44)
I never did look at the trends, but I also don't wanna look like I'm stuck in the 90s, which actually I think the 90s are in, I don't even know. But it doesn't matter, because I'm not doing that anyway. I'm doing what's in for me, and that means comfortable, it means easy to care for. I wanna be able to pack things so they will not wrinkle. I like to look nice. But I also,
Susan (15:54)
you might get out. Yeah.
Heidi (16:14)
Just finding my style that fits my body the way it is now and my lifestyle. And that has been pretty different. Well, I don't know if it's that different. I mean, I guess if you looked at pictures, you'd probably think it was the same. I haven't changed at all, maybe. I don't know.
Susan (16:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Heidi (16:28)
hey, I have a huge favor to ask you. Okay, two, two favors. First, could you stop and go to wherever you're listening and give the Evolving Together podcast a five star review? That would mean so much. It helps the podcast move up in visibility
The other request that I have, please, please, please, is
could you share this podcast with at least one person that you think needs to hear this information? Thank you so much.
Heidi (16:55)
so you work, for the winery,
I'm wondering now that you have more freedom, I think, I mean, when I think of like working for a winery, that's kind of a wine bar. That's funky. That's funky and fun and more free spirited, which is you. So I feel like that probably helped.
Susan (17:03)
Yeah.
or wine bar, the wine bar? Yeah. Yeah.
Hahaha
Heidi (17:18)
it helped design or helped inform your choices for fashion and your redevelopment. No, refinement? No. What's the word I'm looking for? Redefining. I feel like that probably helped redefine fashion for what fashion meant for Susan right now, not just.
Susan (17:23)
Mm, yes.
redefining?
Yeah.
Heidi (17:41)
midlife but just that freedom to say, I'm going to dress the way I want to dress. Am I right?
Susan (17:42)
Right.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yep, absolutely.
That's where I started experimenting and I started just embracing these different things that I liked, these styles that I liked. didn't want to walk away or suppress or reject, I guess that's the word. I didn't want to reject these things that I liked in my wardrobe. You know, that CBGB's t-shirt. I actually got it at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame decades ago now.
CBGB was something that we grew up with when we were in school. I love, yeah, I know. ⁓ And yeah, and I like camo. And I like, I also like really nice tailored pants and jackets. went thrifting and found this really beautiful wool tweed, brown tweed Calvin Klein jacket. It's gorgeous, leather buttons and everything.
Heidi (18:23)
Yeah. Rest its soul. It's so sad it closed, finally. Aw, anyway.
Nice. Nice.
Susan (18:47)
for like 30 bucks.
this wine bar, I can wear kind of whatever I want, right? As long as I look presentable. So I can look kind of funky. I can look a little grungy, like, know, hip grungy. I can go in and look all tailored depending upon what it is. If I'm meeting a customer to talk about a private event or if we're hosting a monthly wine tasting and I want to class it up a little.
I host trivia, you know, sometimes that hosting trivia I want to look, you know, really cute put together other times I just want to be a little more like yeah, you know casual and wear my baggy jeans and just something like I don't know I just I definitely feel more free in how I can express myself, you know when I'm shopping now and as long as I'm not You know wearing if my daughter's wearing it I stay away from it, right?
Heidi (19:35)
Yeah.
Ha
Susan (19:43)
That's my rule of thumb. If I could picture this on my daughter and if I'm in the junior section, I've got to be like, even if I'm in the junior section, I'm like, that is such a cute shirt. I'm like, no. And I pivot and I walk away and I go somewhere else. Now, someone may say like, ⁓ that's dumb, but you know, wear what you want.
Heidi (20:01)
I used to be judgy. Yeah,
my mom and I used to make this joke about polyester pantsuits with elastic waistbands. It's like, if you ever see me in a polyester pantsuit with an elastic waistband, I'm done, right? And I know elastic is our best friend. So now the polyester has changed quite a bit. So I'm not, I'm not hating things that are made out of polyester.
Susan (20:07)
Yes.
my spins.
Yes.
Heidi (20:24)
It's not your mama's or your grandma's polyester anymore. So it's come a long way. It's packable. But I'm with you on that. Like I just got rid of a bunch of dresses that I they were super cute, but they were so short. And I thought I look really good in these and I can still get away with it. You know, quote, get away with them. Like, but do I really want to be getting away with anything? I want to feel.
Susan (20:27)
That's right.
⁓ my gosh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heidi (20:50)
comfortable in what I'm wearing and not... I don't know, think I used to be very judgy reverse judgment. I would look at older people and think, well, I'm not gonna dress like that one day. Or I would make the comment to myself that if I feel like wearing something, I'm gonna wear it. I don't care how old I am. I'm not gonna worry about showing my arms or this or that. And I think it's...
Susan (21:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (21:13)
less about that and more about what feels good and am I putting on things that
Susan (21:18)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (21:23)
support how I want to feel because that projects out to the world. You know, if I'm in something that I don't, that's like, I had this cute, cute dress from the loft and I still have it. I probably need to just get rid of it. It's adorable. it's, probably too adorable for my style, to be honest. and it's very short in the back, probably cause my booty fills up, you know, and it raises it up in the back. I don't think it was designed that way.
Susan (21:25)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You have a good booty though.
Heidi (21:50)
I got a booty and
especially since I've been doing more yoga, in my, what do call my squats and stuff. But when I wear it, I can't sit down. There's nothing under my butt. And I thought, I'm not gonna wear this out anymore I would rather have something that's a little longer. When I sit down, I'm not wondering if like my bare ass is on the seat. It's it's stuff like that.
Susan (22:08)
Yes, that's right.
Heidi (22:13)
I think my style, it's funny because I'm wearing a white t-shirt. That was my uniform when I lived in New York City. I had my white t-shirt, my scarves, my black jeans, my black boots, my black leather jacket. It hasn't honestly changed a whole lot, except that I think I'm a little bit more relaxed in some of my styles. I don't really wear black jeans anymore, you know, too much. I think it's kind of interesting that our styles haven't changed.
Susan (22:18)
Yeah.
Heidi (22:40)
How do we transition with our body changes and our age and our careers and all those things and still stay true to who we are and express that through clothing? And I think that that inner person is always, I don't wanna say always the same, but I feel like we're more free to honor that inner person.
Susan (22:40)
Right, right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, bingo, and that's, I would agree with that. I think it's kind of full circle because I think one of the comments I made earlier was before I felt like I was maybe breaking rules, right? And I felt.
and I didn't like the feeling, right? Like, ⁓ I need to pick a style and stick with it. And if I didn't, and I kind of strayed, then I was breaking a rule, like, ⁓ well, that's not me, right? It's not me. If I wore this, that's not me. Whereas now, I don't care about the rules.
Heidi (23:33)
Yeah
Susan (23:34)
I don't care. going to wear it because in fact that is me. All of that is me. I want to make a comment too for listeners. There's probably some listeners who do have that uniform like you were talking about. That you have your white t-shirt and your black jeans and that scarf.
Heidi (23:38)
Hell yeah.
Susan (23:57)
some people kind of have a uniform that they're comfortable with, right? It's the t-shirts, right? The graphic tees and the this or the whatever it is, right? That they're comfortable with. that is completely fine,
It's okay,
again, we're all different, right? And so if you happen to be somebody who has sort of thought you've maybe lost your identity through your style, then this is good, right? This is for you or you know someone who's kind of going through that. It's like they're kind of changing, right? And that's okay, right? They used to be wearing something and had, knew who they were one way and now things have changed and they're experimenting with clothes.
and just support them, you know?
Heidi (24:40)
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and
in midlife too, if you look at midlife starting at the end of your 30s-ish around there, going into your 60s-ish, don't think that it's 40 to 60, whatever. you're looking at potentially having young children or grandchildren, so you may be crawling on the floor dealing with spit up, you know, to retiring. And so this is huge range of
Susan (24:54)
It's a lot. 40 to 60.
Yep. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (25:08)
opportunities to say, this works for me now. or this doesn't work for me anymore. I need something with more stretch. And I had to go through my closet and get rid of a lot of things I was holding on to. I was the same weight for. Gosh, I don't know. same, same size, same weight. And so I just had clothing in my closet that I loved and I'd pull it out every now and then and I'd wear it. And sometimes I wouldn't wear it for, know, that thing about
Susan (25:13)
Right. Yep.
Yeah.
Heidi (25:33)
get rid of anything you didn't wear in six months. I don't do that because I won't wear something for two years and all of sudden be like, I want to wear that again. So I've never been able to do that. Maybe it's because it's clothing. You know, I'm kind of weird about all my vintage things that I hang on to that I'll never wear. Because again, not my style anymore. I'm not I don't know if it was ever my style. Probably when I was, you know, late teens, early 20s, I'd wear like the you know, the old dresses and cool vintage stuff. But I
Susan (25:34)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
⁓
Yeah.
Heidi (25:59)
I still have it because I like to preserve things too. But anyway, I went through my closet because I thought, well, I'm not teaching anymore. I think I'm going to get rid of some things. And so I did. And then I kept a bunch of things because I thought, well, these will be cute for going to Colorado in the winter. I want to be nice and cozy in sweaters. You I don't wear them in the South too much. Well, when I went through my clothes, I realized they didn't fit. I didn't have to worry.
Susan (26:17)
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (26:29)
about, should I keep this or should I not keep it? Because they did not fit and they, thought, okay, I'm not ever going to be 10 pounds lighter or well, let's see. am, I'm probably 12 pounds, a solid 12 pounds heavier. Actually, no, probably 16 pounds from my normal weight.
slowly that weight crept on over the years. during COVID, I remember I gained like 20 pounds or something like a lot of people did. Oddly enough, I wasn't drinking any alcohol. was I was the one person that was not drinking during COVID. That's another story. But I I gained this weight from stress, I guess. And and then I lost it. And but it slowly kept
Susan (27:01)
Yeah
Heidi (27:10)
creeping back and I realize now that what's there now has been there for a while and I'm not gonna hang on to something I'm not looking to put on any more weight but I'm also not looking to lose a lot of weight. So I went through my closet. There were a few things I thought well let me see if I should keep this. And then I went to try it on. thought it doesn't even fit. It's not even.
Susan (27:23)
Ha ha ha.
Hahaha!
Heidi (27:31)
It's
not even option of should I keep it? It's like, what, you're gonna frame it and put it in your hallway? mean, it's dress a doll. It's like, it's not gonna fit. So I had to get more things to replace those things and I thought, okay, well, I had two pairs of white jeans or white pants that I kept forever and they did not fit. I'm like, well, I need another pair of white pants, white jeans. So I got some, but
Susan (27:37)
Right? ⁓ my gosh.
Yeah.
Heidi (27:56)
It's fun, I think, giving yourself that liberation to be able to say, I like this, I'm gonna buy it and I'm gonna wear it. Or to say, I like this, but it's not me and I'm not gonna buy it. think, you know, but I think it's fun. I love your style. And the great thing about us is we never fight over clothing on the sale rack, because we don't have the same taste.
Susan (27:58)
Mm-hmm.
right.
Yes.
No, yeah, Yeah,
we've talked about that, right? ⁓ We have different tastes in clothes and different tastes in men. that, actually I think that's a good recipe for like, you know, how to pick a good friend because then you're never fighting over anything like really fundamental.
Heidi (28:26)
Yeah, yeah.
Right? That's right, clothing and men. ⁓ Awesome. Well, I think that this has been fun and, you know, we can look at clothing as frivolous but it's not, it's, really helps define who we are, how we want to show up in the world and, and how we are perceived. but most important, does it match how we want to feel? And we want to feel ourselves. We want to feel.
Susan (28:37)
Hahaha!
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heidi (28:58)
strong and comfortable and relaxed and sexy and all the things, you know, and there's no reason that we can't, do that and still embrace our own style. So thank you so much. This has been so fun. Yes. You're going to be one of my, my repeaters for sure. Cause you know, we just have so many things to talk about. Yeah. Thank you. Bye. Love you.
Susan (29:00)
confident. Yeah.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
I hope so. Thank you. Okay.
Bye.
Heidi (29:24)
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