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Welcome to The Culture Code podcast. On this podcast, you’ll learn how to grow, shape, and sustain a high-performance culture with the CEO of LEADx, Kevin Kruse. From designing and delivering highly effective leadership development programs, to measuring and improving the employee experience, you will understand what it takes to cultivate a thriving company culture. Through interviews with Chief People Officers, deep dives into key topics, and recordings of our invite-only community sessions, we bring you cutting-edge, data-backed insights from the most desirable companies to work for in the world.
Kevin Kruse: Hello, everyone. I'm Kevin Kruse. Welcome to Culture Code. Our guest today is Chro at SugarCRM, Shayana, Sweeney, Shayna. Welcome! Where are you joining from today?
Sweeney: I am joining from San Jose, California.
Kruse: No kidding. I just got back. I was in San Jose. Just got back last week. I was staying in an apartment, and I'm sure you know it.For those who might not be familiar with SugarCRM, how big is your organization and in plain language, what do you do?
Sweeney: Sure. So, SugarCRM, we're a global company. We have about 400 employees worldwide. We're actually located in 13 countries. Which I think is fairly rare for a company of our size to be so global and in terms of what we do, we provide a full suite of customer relationship management solutions. So marketing automation salesforce automation customer service tools which, basically, we help sell or sell marketers, market, and customer service people deliver great service.
Kruse: I love it. And you know we're here to talk about culture. And I'm curious. A hot topic these days among your peers is just the whole issue of calling people back to work, or fully remote or hybrid. Have you guys landed on one of those models just yet?
Sweeney: Yeah, we work from home-based. We try to steer away from using the word remote where we can because remote from where, when you're a global company, everyone's in different places. And so we work from a home-based company.
Kruse: That's great. How would you describe your company culture in just a few words?
Sweeney: I would say, we sh! Our culture is a vibrant tapestry of empathy, collaboration, and a shared passion for problem-solving. We try to empower our teams to tackle challenges with determination and creativity to try to not just fix problems, but also drive innovation. We have some core values that we believe in stronger together, which kind of ties in with that empathy vibe driving for results. Just fix it, embrace, change, and believe in. Yes, if.
Kruse: Tell me more about what you believe in.
Sweeney: That is my favorite one, which I will say initially, I was very skeptical of as an HR person because sometimes the answer to questions is no. But when we look at problems, when we talk about things, what we try to do is push each other in meetings. If you can't do something, and you're like, "I'm not sure that's possible." What is the "yes," if yes, we could do this, if what? And it causes a lot of creative problem-solving in the process and really thinking through like, "Oh, well, if I had this and that and put this together, we could get this done, or if I had this budget, or if I had this expertise," and then we can facilitate and see if we could make that happen. So it's a very kind of positive, creative way of looking at problems and thinking of all the possible solutions, versus being, "Oh, we can't do that now. We don't have this, or we don't have that," rather than giving a hard no.
Kruse: Yeah, very unique and powerful. And I might even steal that in my personal life. What are some of the ways you foster or sustain this culture? Any unique rituals or traditions related to your culture?
Sweeney: So what we try to do is we try to embed our culture and values in the flow of everyday work, because if it's separate, if it's someplace else, if you have to go look up something, it may not sink in. And so, from onboarding as part of our onboarding process, every new hire, you know, we group them in classes. They meet with each member of our executive team, and we chat with all of the new hires about how to work with our teams, and how we apply these values to our team. So it starts really at that onboarding process. In our town halls, we always start them. We have sort of this one-page code for growth that has the values and our guiding principles and our primary goals. We start all meetings with that. We have ongoing recognition, kind of shout-outs that employees use that broadcast company-wide so that employees can see positive feedback. And similarly, I think some of the empathy that we show for each other internally extends to our customers and how we treat our customers. And so we make sure that we share positive feedback from our customers back to the company to kind of emphasize that we do. We have an innovation week once a week where we get our teams together to work on tackling typically an industry-specific challenge to promote problem-solving cross-functional collaboration. And of course, we get some fabulous prizes. And then what we take from that is we always make a concerted effort to take some of that innovation and actually put it in the products so that people can have pride in that. "Oh, I created this. And it's in there, my thing that I built as this little side project." And then I'd say our "just fix it" approach to things really encourages people to resolve problems from anywhere across the company. And we get a very significant amount of open feedback, some of it very critical about things that aren't working right. But that openness and transparency allows for really thoughtful and collaborative dialogue and helps us really make sure we don't miss any blind spots that we might not have thought about. I've already mentioned the "yes, if" and people in meetings will be like, "But what's the 'yes, if'?" And then to kind of foster community because we are so distributed, we have chat channels on work-related topics and non-work-related topics. So no matter what you're interested in, someone likes it, and we encourage people like, if you have an interest and there's not a place to talk about the interest, create it. We're very open with supporting people connecting with each other on a personal level. And then we recently just did a volunteer week where we got people together in co-located places to go volunteer and some people that aren't in co-located places. We ensured that there were virtual volunteer opportunities and set up little rooms where people could work on the activity together and get to know each other. So we do a lot through that to try to help foster the culture and emphasize it throughout the workday.
Kruse: You shared many great programs, Shana, for our listeners. 70% of engagement is correlated to the manager, and front-line managers touch more employees than any other leadership group. What are some of the ways you develop your front-line managers?
Sweeney: So we do a few different things to try to develop our frontline managers. One of the trends we've been seeing at our company, and I've seen this mirrored across research, is that managers are kind of overwhelmed post-pandemic. There's more responsibility, there's more, especially in a home-based environment, a lot more touchpoints. They just have a lot to do. So a lot of the development that we try to do is giving them bite-sized pieces of information. Last year, we ran a year-long campaign. Once a week, we sent out a newsletter that we created called "Manager Minute" and provided a short bit of information on a topic, so that even if you were super busy, you could take 1 minute and read it and learn something. And then, along with that, we provided tools, resources, sometimes books, sometimes podcast links, where managers could get additional information on the topic if it was of interest to them or if it was something that they were facing.
This year, we've taken a little bit of a different approach, and we're doing more hands-on training in key development topics that our executive team identified as, you know, maybe missing a little bit in some of our managers. And so we do a short intro to the topic by the HR team. And then we've selected managers for each of the topics who are unofficially recognized as leaders in doing those things well. And we put together a panel of those managers where, you know, obviously, we as HR have some questions, but all the other managers in the room can also ask their questions. It fosters collaboration and mentorship across managers and recognizes some people who are on the panel for the great work that they've done.
We also have a manager channel where managers can collaborate with each other. And we have a manager portal where we put all of our tools, tips, and information so that they can search for things if they need it. We've also built out e-learning pathways for our first-time managers, mid-level managers, and more senior managers that cover different topics that come up at the different levels. And then our HR team, we're very hands-on with our folks. We provide one-on-one coaching to managers if they call us and need help, like, "Can you role-play delivering a difficult message with me?" or "I need to have this conversation. I know the person's going to get upset. Do you have de-escalation techniques to keep it on the down low so that things don't get out of hand?" And so we do a lot of that as well.
Kruse: You're offering way more than I would have thought for an organization of your size. So congratulations on that. Tell me a little bit more about the hands-on topics and the panels like, is that sort of like a topic every month that people are invited to, or a whole bunch of topics over a 2-day span. What's the cadence of that program?
Sweeney: We're doing it once a quarter. It was manageable from a time commitment both from our team and also from the managers that participate in the panel and the managers that attend. So once a quarter, there are various key topics. Like the last one we did was on managing up because we felt like the managers could use a little bit of help managing up for their own benefit and for their team's benefit. It was something our executive team noticed, like, "Hey, it would be really good if these people spoke up a little bit more and pushed back a little more. Let's equip them with tools." So what we ended up doing was we created profiles of several of the senior leaders in the organization from a style standpoint and gave some recommendations on how to work with people's different styles to drive the results that you're looking for.
Kruse: I'm excited about that topic. You're the first to hear about a book I'm working on for next year.
How do you solicit feedback from employees about the culture and their engagement (e.g., engagement or other surveys, town halls, ?)
Sweeney: So I am a self-proclaimed data nerd, and if I can't measure it, it's rough for me. I like hard data. And so we do quarterly surveys, sort of the voice of the employee, measuring different things, and then we collate the results each quarter. We pick a few things to work on that are of interest to the employees. We also have town halls, and in a town hall once a quarter, we present, "Here's what you said. Here's what we did last time. Here's what you said this time, and here's what we're doing as a result." We also solicit feedback if anyone wants to help us with any of those initiatives because it can't just be us alone all the time. We know what we know, but sometimes employees have a different lived experience than we might. So we also ask for any tips, ideas, if anyone wants to volunteer to help us with any of the projects, we ask for help. So we use those survey results pretty regularly to monitor where we're at, where there are problem areas, where there are areas where we're doing really well, and to celebrate those as well. Because I think it's important to make sure that sometimes, as HR, we often are like, "Okay, let's talk about what we need to fix," and we don't take enough time to stop and celebrate all the great things that the employees are saying about us. And we've also been able to take those great things that employees have said and translate them into some of our social media marketing for recruitment into our websites. So it can be really useful and valuable feedback, the positives.
Kruse: I love the quarterly survey cadence. Some of my regular listeners will probably remember me saying this. One of the reasons why I like it is that most businesses are asked to report financials quarterly. And that's like the rearview mirror. Okay, here's how we did financially and on our KPIs in the previous quarter. But by doing employee voice surveys, those are leading indicators of how you're going to perform. So now it's like, okay, let's make sure if we're going to look at our financials and report quarterly, let's at least find out, get some culture and people measured quarterly. The other reason I like it is, well, first of all, the world is moving so fast. Things change. So let's get that finger on the pulse of what's going on. And lastly, habits take, on average, 57 days to make or break. Let's assume those are workdays. That's 12 weeks or a quarter. And so if I'm being given feedback as a manager, like, "You know what? We are getting dinged on psychological safety. You need to do these three things to improve psychology on your team." Well, I'm going to need a full quarter to practice, to get it right, to make it a habit, and then hopefully get credit for it in that next survey.
So I hear some companies are like, "Oh, yeah, we survey every month. We pulse every month." And if it's the same question every month, you're not giving people a lot of time to change those behaviors. And it's like, "Yeah, I know I'm working on that thing already." If it's longer than 12 weeks, it's like, "Wait, what am I supposed to be working on?" So I love this quarterly cadence. I don't hear it often enough.
Sweeney: Yeah, and similar to what you said is, I present the results quarterly to our exec staff. We have conversations about it, we talk about if there are areas we need to adjust. And then our HR team will partner with any of the executives that see specific problem areas in their teams that they want us to help them work on as well.
Kruse: That's great. Related to culture, are there any special initiatives or results you’re most proud of?
Sweeney: I don't have any overarching programs, but I think the thing that I'm the most proud of is that from the point I took over to now, we've decreased our attrition rate by 14%. It was about 23% when I started, and we're now at about 9%. And it's a lot of different initiatives that feed into that. But I think the piece that resonates the most with our employees and has the most positive effect is that we try to be there for people when they need us and treat them as humans first and employees second. We try to show appreciation and support for them throughout their employee journey and what might be happening in their personal life. So we'll do things like send flowers, send baby gifts, send handwritten notes to new hires telling them we're so excited to have them. And then, as we think about retaining people, if we're worried about specific individuals, we customize it to the person. Everyone stays for different reasons, and you can't have a one-size-fits-all approach. So we really take a very personal approach. We've done things like hire a personal chef for an employee whose spouse was frustrated because they were on the road a lot, or we had someone with a serious medical condition, and we made sure their pets were cared for and that someone was paying their bills. There are just different things that we do to customize support. It could be as simple as recommending a book to an employee or giving them more visibility in the organization or new projects to help increase their skill set. We really work hard to try to customize things and enable our managers so that they can have those conversations because obviously HR can't talk to every single employee every single day. But we do a lot to support our managers so that they can have those conversations and really customize things to the individual.
Kruse: And the magic is in that personalization, that individualization, which is again key to great leadership.What book would you recommend that your colleagues read? (or podcast, video, etc.)
Sweeney: Probably the book I recommend to most people is "Influence" by Robert Cialdini.
Kruse: Yeah, something like that, Chaldini or something. That's one of my favorite books as well. A really incredible book.
Sweeney: Yeah. Everyone has influence, whether they realize it or not. I think reading the book makes you realize the types of influence you have and what you can leverage. And I think it helps you get buy-in for your ideas and helps with supporting any change management. And the world is moving fast, and there's always change. And the more you can get that buy-in and, you know, influence people in different ways, the easier your job is.
Kruse: Let me ask you this. It's something I've been asking my CHRO, my Chief People Officer friends, you know, what's something that you know today that maybe you wish you knew on the first day you became CHRO, you know? Like, what advice would you give to a younger version of yourself?
Sweeney: There are more solutions than you think to any problem, and it's important to take a step back and question your own assumptions and your own biases when looking at problems and possible solutions. Well, that's probably the biggest advice I'd give.
Kruse: Seems like today, at least, you're very good at decision quality, decision making, you know, able to make decisions thoughtfully and taking the time to think about bias.
Yeah, what about we're talking now? It's October of 2023. So one more quarter, and then the New Year is upon us in your CHRO role. Like, what's your priority going to be next year? What's your team's focus going to be on?
Sweeney: We're really focused on career development and career progression. As a smaller company, we don't have that built out in depth. It's something our employees have been asking us for. And we want to provide that. And then, along with that, we're exploring the option of creating a project board and allowing people, if they want to go work on a different project in a different team, to apply for projects where they can go maybe work 10% of their time to help broaden their skill set outside of their current functional area.
Kruse: Wow! I love this idea, and I'm going to encourage our listeners to steal it from you because if you can put this into place as a 400-person organization.
What excites you the most about your company right now?
Sweeney: I'm excited about where we're going as a company. We're working on automating anything, accelerating everything, predicting what's next, both in our HR world but also in our world of products. Our ultimate goal is we want organizations to drive memorable experiences that help them fuel business growth. And we try to emulate that internally in our own organization because we feel like if we can provide that internally, it just shines out in all of our interactions with our customers. One of our big focuses is what the platform can do, the work. Tech should do tech stuff. And then it's up to us to do the relationship stuff. So automate what you can, do what you can to get all the busy work out of the way, to get all the task friction out of the way so that it's really the relationship that comes through. And that's what we're really excited about.
Kruse: Yeah, it's a great thing not to be so single-focused on the technology, you know, high tech with high touch and relationships. Shana Sweeney, CHRO at SugarCRM, you've given me a lot of time on a Friday afternoon, nonetheless. Thanks for the time and for sharing your wisdom with everyone.
Sweeney: Thanks so much for having me.