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As the CEO of Kit, Nathan Barry has a front row seat to what’s working in the most successful creator businesses.
On The Nathan Barry Show, he interviews top creators and dives into the inner workings of their businesses in his live coaching sessions.
You get unique insight into how creator businesses work and what you can do to increase results in your own business.
One of the things Nathan is passionate about is helping you create leverage.
Creator Flywheels let you create many copies of yourself so you don’t get bogged down with the little things in your business. Flywheels will help you reach a place where you can focus on revenue instead of busywork.
Tune in weekly for new episodes with ideas and tips for growing your business. You’ll hear discussions around building an audience, earning a living as a creator, and Nathan’s insights on scaling a software company to $100M.
Learn how to get more results with less effort and:
Grow faster over time.
Work less hard over time.
Make more money over time.
[00:00:00] Nathan: To increase revenue in your business. You might think you need to add things, more products, more services, more work, but there's almost certainly a bunch of hidden money already in your business.
[00:00:10] Jessica: One of the fastest ways that you can make profit is by looking at the things in your business that are making you money that you could do better.
[00:00:19] Nathan: My guest today, Jessica Miller, shares four keys that will unlock extra money and turn it into profit.
[00:00:25] Jessica: So there are four components that make up a hell yes offer. The first one is your hell Yes. Energy. You wanna call in your people with your offer. So that means like pulling your ideal client into your offer, into your business.
[00:00:38] It's magnetic. Okay? The third piece is you wanna have a compelling solution. It's the thing that is gonna be like hell Yes. And then the last piece is that you can scale to a million with a really good hell yes offer.
[00:00:50] Nathan: Oh wow.
[00:00:51] Jessica: If you have people and you have an audience, it is a gold mine. The number one reason that people leave money on the table is because they don't give another offer for people to buy.
[00:01:01] If you wanna grow, but you don't wanna do it by adding so much more complexity, one of the most powerful levers that you have in your business is
[00:01:10] Nathan: So stick around for this one, because it's gonna unlock more profit than you ever knew was possible in your business. Oh, it just prints money.
[00:01:16] Jessica: It's so good.
[00:01:17] It's so good.
[00:01:20] Nathan: Jessica, welcome to the show.
[00:01:21] Jessica: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:22] Nathan: So we have a lot of fun things to cover. I think this is gonna be an action packed episode for
[00:01:26] Jessica: sure.
[00:01:26] Nathan: So we're gonna dive into four keys to unlock a hundred thousand dollars in hidden profit. I'm already kind of teased by the fact that they're written up there, but I don't know what they are yet.
[00:01:35] So before we get into that though, I think you have an interesting background of coming to the world of business and entrepreneurship. So, is this where you started out or no? Yeah. What, what was your path to get to this point?
[00:01:47] Jessica: So actually I'm a pharmacist by training. Okay. And I have a business degree. I was planning my whole life out that I was gonna go into basically clinical medicine.
[00:01:54] Um, I got accepted to an accelerated MBA program, which back in the day when I went to college, like that was not a thing. And it really just like blew my whole world open. Um, really taught me about what companies were doing out there, how they were making an impact on so many people. And once I saw that, I thought, this is the direction I wanna go.
[00:02:12] Nathan: So that's pretty wild to go from consulting and running your own business. You know where we are now. Um, but coming from the world of pharmacy Yes. And you're saying the impact is what stood out to you. Is there an example or a story of like the impact of business that, you know, made you really want to switch over or, or made you realize, you know, years later, like, yes, this was the right, you know, the right decision, the type of impact that I wanna have?
[00:02:36] Jessica: Yeah. So back in the day, the internet, all those things were just coming to be. Mm-hmm. Even like LinkedIn had just started and I was watching how things were changing so fast. Um, I really thought that people that were doing that were these special snowflakes and they had this sort of voodoo magic. But then after going and studying it, I realized like there is a framework and a way that companies do this repeatedly.
[00:02:58] And I think that marriage of like mission and passion. And the tools to create a big, you know, impact and effect on the world. Right. Um, was just so cool. And once I saw that, I was like, we're going, this is where we're going. I don't know how I'm gonna get there, what's gonna happen, but like, let's just go in that direction.
[00:03:14] Nathan: So what did that corporate recruiter look like?
[00:03:16] Jessica: So I actually had my site set on, um, my first company that I ever worked for was Eli Lillian Company. Okay. And the reason I wanted to work for them is because they were like the last family owned pharmaceutical company. Mm. Colonel Eli Lilly was a pharmacist.
[00:03:27] He started this business and they were doing amazing, you know, back in the nineties were the days when they discovered Prozac and big, these big blockbuster drugs. Mm-hmm. So I was like, I am going to work for Lilly. And I will never forget standing in like a CVS pharmacy, getting a phone call from a recruiter saying, Hey, we're opening up this medical info division out in Indianapolis.
[00:03:47] Do you wanna come? And I'm like, is this a joke? You know, but I, I did what I always do now and I kind of took a leap of faith and a wing of prayer and went out there and interviewed and they hired me and I helped them start this department. That eventually went global and that really like just spearheaded my whole career mm-hmm.
[00:04:04] In corporate.
[00:04:05] Nathan: And then what led to the, the switch out of corporate and, you know, going out as you, as an entrepreneur on your own?
[00:04:11] Jessica: Yeah. So like many entrepreneurs, I had a lot of ideas and I wanted to do big things and I loved corporate, loved my job, worked with a lot of global people and, um, I just realized I couldn't quite make it fit in the corporate structure.
[00:04:23] Um, at the same time I'd had my second child and I had a very serious health crisis and I sort of stood on the edge of that cliff and I was like, you know what this is meant to be. So I took the leap and never looked back. And that was in 2018.
[00:04:37] Nathan: Okay. So it's been a while now. Yeah.
[00:04:38] Jessica: Seven years feels like forever.
[00:04:42] Nathan: What were some of the things that stood out to you the most as you made the leap into entrepreneurship?
[00:04:46] Jessica: Well, I, I think the ability to sort of control your future mm-hmm. Control how you're spending your time. Like all of that freedom and creativity that comes from being your own boss. Was obviously a huge change and it, and something I really wanted.
[00:04:59] I think sometimes for entrepreneurs it could be like kind of a curse and a blessing at the same time, which, um, as I adjusted to being an entrepreneur, I went through that too. Mm-hmm. Um, but the freedom was amazing. Um, the other thing that really. I guess drew me to it was this idea that I could earn and be, and contribute as much as I wanted.
[00:05:19] Nathan: Right? There's no ceiling.
[00:05:19] Jessica: No ceiling. And I am a huge proponent of people making the money they want, rising to the level that they want. I mean, the more great people in this world that we have, making all of the money that they want and building those businesses, like the world will be a better place. So that sort of unlocked possibility for me was a huge driver behind going in that direction.
[00:05:40] And once I got out of corporate, I felt like I was breaking out of jail. I'm like, I'm gonna do all these things. Um, and I really did. I ran head first into my coaching business at the time. Mm-hmm. And, you know, put together my offer. Got out there in front of people, created community, and it was a wild ride in the beginning, but there was so much passion and momentum behind me at that time.
[00:06:02] It just like unlocked all these things. Yeah. And I just kind of ran outta the gate.
[00:06:06] Nathan: Yeah. When you come in with that like force of nature level energy, you can basically move mountains. You can do anything.
[00:06:12] Jessica: Totally.
[00:06:12] Nathan: So, and then as you started coaching, you know, and, and your, your consulting and all of that, what stood out to you about your clients?
[00:06:19] Jessica: Yeah. No one was making any money.
[00:06:20] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:06:21] Jessica: And it was so heartbreaking. It was so heartbreaking because I had amazing people in my world. They were capable, they were smart, they were driven. I mean, they wanted to do things, but when I started to sort of peel back the onion, they weren't making any money. And I was floored honestly.
[00:06:38] And I thought, okay, no, this is not how it's supposed to be. Like there is a method, there are pieces to actually making your business work that you need to know. And it really is this combination of like the internal game. The actual like brass tacks of your business and then the data underneath to make sure you're going in the right direction.
[00:06:58] And as soon as I kind of hit into that brick wall, I pivoted. I was like, okay, now I'm gonna be a business coach,
[00:07:04] Nathan: right?
[00:07:04] Jessica: And I'm gonna dig in, and my mission is to help all of you people in my world right now overcome this hurdle. Mm-hmm. And really not work hard for nothing. This is not right how it's supposed to go.
[00:07:15] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, I think in business we talk so much about revenue numbers
[00:07:18] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:07:19] Nathan: That people very rarely talk about profit.
[00:07:21] Jessica: Correct.
[00:07:21] Nathan: And you even, you hear it so much from, I guess, the general public who don't know entrepreneurship, where they say something like, oh, you know, you go in the grocery store and the price of eggs is so high.
[00:07:30] Yeah. And you're like this, they're just raking in the profit. Right. This is absurd and all that. And then you go look up like profit margins on the grocery, grocery chains, and you're like, one point a half percent. Right. You know, like, I'm like, mm-hmm. And I thought it was 20%, you know? But yeah. It's like, no, no, it might be 2% if the chain's doing really well.
[00:07:45] And I see that all across the board of just these. Very thin profit margins, even in businesses that most people assume are very, very profitable. So I love that you have gone deep on the subject. You clearly have a lot of opinions on it. Mm-hmm. And if you're up for it, I'd love to just get up on the board and be like, all right, here's, here's the four levers.
[00:08:03] Like, let's dive in and teach it to people. I would love to do that. Let's do it. Perfect. You, we talked about the four, you know, the four keys, the four levers to unlocking profit and why that's important. Is there anything, do you wanna dive right into the first one or is there anything that, um, you know, wraps up or like encompasses the whole idea?
[00:08:21] Jessica: Yeah, so on the topic of profit mm-hmm. One of the fastest ways that you can make profit and increase your margins is by looking at the things in your business that are making you money that you could do better. Okay. So, to your point, when people think of growth, they always think of adding, like, what other offer can I add?
[00:08:39] What more things can I do? Mm-hmm. And I'm here to like tell everyone that the key to more profit. It's actually subtracting out the things that are not working and taking your time and energy and your money and just putting those to the side. You don't need to like burn them to the ground. Just put 'em to the side and we're gonna lean into your 20% and where those levers are in your business, okay, that are gonna produce this huge ROI.
[00:09:01] Because profitability is about doing something better. Not necessarily doing more, but better. Optimizing it.
[00:09:07] Nathan: The focus,
[00:09:08] Jessica: correct? Focus is a huge asset in your business. 100%.
[00:09:12] Nathan: Alright, I love that. Okay, so what is the first key? Unlocking more profit.
[00:09:17] Jessica: Okay, so the first lever is what I love to affectionately call your hell Yes offer.
[00:09:21] Okay? So it is your offer in your business that is a product or a service that you have. And if you are someone who is earlier in entrepreneurship or maybe you're starting something new, that offer in your business is the most powerful profit lever. If you can create an offer that is binge worthy. That pulls people in.
[00:09:42] It sells itself before anyone even talks to you,
[00:09:45] Nathan: right?
[00:09:46] Jessica: That makes everything else in your business so much easier. So there are four components that make up a hell yes, offer.
[00:09:52] Nathan: Okay?
[00:09:52] Jessica: Okay. The first one is your Hell Yes. Energy.
[00:09:56] Nathan: Okay. You, you're bringing hell yes. Energy to all beginning. Now. Hashtag is this, is this bullet points, is this a circle?
[00:10:03] Like how, how do I lay this out? Um,
[00:10:04] Jessica: I think you could just sort of list them.
[00:10:06] Nathan: Okay.
[00:10:06] Jessica: And then there is sort of like a little arrow that fills into them, but they're, we could just list them as
[00:10:11] Nathan: bullets. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, energy is the first one. Yeah. Specifically. Hell yes. Energy,
[00:10:15] Jessica: right? So, I think this is one of those things that people forget.
[00:10:20] And a lot of times as entrepreneurs when we're thinking about growth or our businesses, we look outside of ourselves. We're looking at the market like, oh, what? Mm-hmm. What's going on over a kit? What is so and so doing? Like, what's selling? What are, are these things external to us? But really it starts with you.
[00:10:36] It starts with what lights you up. And so we wanna make sure. Both. You sort of like start and end with this, but what are the things in your business or in your life that are lighting you up and are they part of your offer? Okay, so the first piece is the hell yes. Energy.
[00:10:51] Nathan: All right.
[00:10:52] Jessica: The second piece is you wanna call in your people with your offer.
[00:10:57] You want it dialed in. So calling in your people
[00:11:00] Nathan: and what does that mean?
[00:11:02] Jessica: So that means like pulling your ideal client into your, into your offer, into your business. So it's like it's calling them and it's magnetic.
[00:11:10] Nathan: Okay? Yep.
[00:11:11] Jessica: And the way that you do that with a hell yes. Offer is you own a problem. Hmm. So people file you in your brain, in their brain by the problem.
[00:11:21] They don't file you in by you know your name. You're right behind a problem. You're not even in their brain if you don't have a problem in front of you. So you're owning that problem and that problem is the hook. It's the thing that pulls 'em in.
[00:11:34] Nathan: Okay. And so you're basically saying you need to be known as.
[00:11:38] The person who solves this problem,
[00:11:40] Jessica: right? This offer is made for you who has this problem? Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That's the calling in the people. The third piece is you wanna have a compelling solution. Okay? I don't know about you, but I see offers all day long and most of them are really boring.
[00:11:57] They don't have a solution that people really want.
[00:12:01] Nathan: What's an example of a, an uncompelling solution that you've come across and then, um, how it would transform it?
[00:12:07] Jessica: Something, okay, this is me personally. Something that you order online that takes three weeks to get to you. Okay. Like, I'm so excited. I just bought this thing, this energy drink, and it's gonna be here like October 15th.
[00:12:18] Like, oh my gosh, no. That is not compelling to me. Mm-hmm. Amazon now it could be here by four o'clock this afternoon. Compelling. That's compelling. Yes. Right. It's really solving my problem. It's the thing that is gonna be like, hell yes. Oh my gosh. Click sold.
[00:12:32] Nathan: It's a very compelling solution.
[00:12:33] Jessica: Very compelling.
[00:12:34] And it's lock in key with the problem.
[00:12:36] Nathan: Right,
[00:12:36] Jessica: right. So they're always attached. It's not some random thing. It's like really tight.
[00:12:40] Nathan: Yes, exactly. So, yeah, so
[00:12:41] Jessica: compelling solution. So they, so you're, you've got your energy locked into this thing. You're calling in your people, it is made for them. Mm-hmm. You're offering the thing that they really want, like it's binge-worthy.
[00:12:50] And then, um, the last piece is that it is priced and it is positioned appropriately. So, so it really is made for this person. It's a, it's aligned with the buyer and then it's also aligned with your business and what it is that you wanna be creating. Like, okay, if you want 10 customers and you wanna make $200,000, you're not gonna price your offer at.
[00:13:17] $200, right? Mm-hmm. So it needs to be made for you and your business, and you always say like, what are you optimizing for? Right? Yes.
[00:13:25] Nathan: That question ask all the time,
[00:13:26] Jessica: right? And then what makes sense for this person? Mm-hmm. So that pricing and positioning really elevates your offer or puts it in alignment with that client.
[00:13:36] And when that whole thing comes together, you have to also check how does it feel for you? Mm. Like, am I on fire about, if I was Jeff Bezos and it was Amazon and I was like, this is the goal of my company and my offers, like is it doing the thing
[00:13:51] Nathan: right?
[00:13:51] Jessica: Can I go out and talk about this all the time? If the answer is yes, I promise you.
[00:13:57] Like your clients are feeling that and so are you.
[00:14:00] Nathan: Yeah. I mean, another example for me is for Kit with the creator network.
[00:14:04] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:05] Nathan: You know, we, we built this product for so long where every creator is isolated, right? Mm-hmm. You run your account differently than I run my account. It doesn't really matter that we're both on Kit.
[00:14:13] Mm-hmm. But when we built the Creator network, like it starts to matter a lot. And so we can recommend each other, we can grow faster, I can discover new people. And so now probably half of a sales conversation that I have is all about Creator network and the growth that you can drive, because it's, it's something like 40% faster growth.
[00:14:31] Like you look at the numbers, it's ridiculous. Wow. And so, because the compelling solution is so good mm-hmm. The energy that I bring to the calls is completely different because I'm not like, well, you know, we're 10% better in these areas.
[00:14:43] Jessica: Right. It's
[00:14:44] Nathan: like, I mean, let me just show you the numbers from Ryan Holiday and, you know, yes.
[00:14:48] Jenna Kutcher and all of these people. Mm-hmm. And like, if you wanna integrate, if you don't like, I'm gonna go talk to some other people. Right. You know?
[00:14:57] Jessica: Right. You're not afraid of those nos. Right. Because you love it so much.
[00:14:59] Nathan: Yeah. And you get to really bring that energy. And so, you know, you mentioned like kind of the, the like the loop aspect of it.
[00:15:06] Mm-hmm. You know, and these come, it comes full circle because if you know. I clearly own a problem. I have a compelling solution. It's packed, packaged, and positioned appropriately. Like the fact with Creator network, you know, I know that it's so compelling and we don't charge anything extra for it. It's just the same
[00:15:25] Jessica: Yes.
[00:15:25] Nathan: Price of the product,
[00:15:27] Jessica: which makes the offer.
[00:15:28] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:15:29] Jessica: Even Bo. Hell yes. Right, right.
[00:15:31] Nathan: And so then I come in with that energy and around we go.
[00:15:34] Jessica: Yes. Right. Okay. And it just, it, it radiates. Mm-hmm. So that offer is so important. It's important for every business, but when you're running a business that's maybe, you know, like at a million dollars you have proof of concept, you've figured out your hell yes.
[00:15:46] Offer. Right. There's optimization there. Of course, it's more custom in that sense. But these offers can get your business, I would say you can scale to a million. Mm-hmm. With a really good hell yes. Offer. So you always wanna have that on point. So if it's a newer creator or a newer business owner, you wanna make sure you look at that offer because there's so much money hiding in your business.
[00:16:06] Mm-hmm. Just with that offer alone. Be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[00:16:10] Nathan: Is there one of your clients or an example that comes to mind from what they were offering before, how it was packaged or positioned, and then when you got all four of these elements dialed in?
[00:16:18] Jessica: Yeah, there's a few, and I'll share the first one, um, was a client of mine who was a concert pianist.
[00:16:24] She's a very Okay. Established pianist creator. Amazing. She wanted to start her own business and help teach other people to do that.
[00:16:32] Nathan: Okay.
[00:16:32] Jessica: So she sort of, she still had her day job, but she was kind of dabbling in this, um, space and she kind of did this thing that a lot of musicians do where they're just like, I'm gonna sell my services per hour.
[00:16:43] I think it was like $80 an hour and you could buy one or maybe two. I think she sold them as like, um, a package of, you know, so many hours per month.
[00:16:51] Nathan: And is this training that she's offering people? Yes. Or, okay. Well, not performance, but.
[00:16:56] Jessica: So it was training, it was like training and skills, but to, to your point, it was very vague.
[00:17:01] Okay. It was like, do you wanna learn how to play piano? Like, I'm not sure. And
[00:17:03] Nathan: she's not sure either. Right,
[00:17:05] Jessica: right.
[00:17:05] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:17:05] Jessica: And it was like creeping along and she was chasing clients and it wasn't really exciting for her. So she hired me and I was like, okay, let's talk about like, who do you really want to work with?
[00:17:16] What is exciting for you? And what she actually leaned into when everyone thinks of music lessons a lot of times for kids. Mm-hmm. She was like, I wanna work with the adults.
[00:17:23] Nathan: Right.
[00:17:24] Jessica: And I wanna work with the adults who wanna be really good, like I'm gonna be a performer. Mm-hmm. So we revamp this whole offer stack around her energy, the adult student, and then somebody that wants to be the elite.
[00:17:41] Nathan: Okay.
[00:17:42] Jessica: Like they're trying to be concert level. Awesome. Mm-hmm. So we created an office offer stack of three different things. One of them was focused on her adult client who actually had a, a specific problem. I'm really good, but I can't get over this, like how to do my whatever is really fast. I'm not a PP.
[00:18:00] So, but they had a very specific problem. They were coming in, it was like laser coaching, and she infused all that energy into it. Like, I'm gonna get you this result fast. We're gonna make it happen. She charged $5,000 for that offer. Okay. Then she had another offer that was more of a group program, meaning you wanna get really good, but you don't wanna do it by yourself, or maybe you don't have the funds to do that.
[00:18:23] So she created a more group program, skill-based, she had a, um, a membership area where people were coming in and she was working with them and it was their ability to advance these skills and, and become really good, like even better than they were. And then there was a one-on-one program, which was directly to her piano mastery 20 5K all in.
[00:18:43] Mm-hmm. Like these are the people who are really going for it. And I live outside the Boston area, so there's like, you know, Berkeley School of Music, I mean, we're talking about Oh yeah. Incredible people. So, um, she put it together. She was on fire, she started recording videos, you know, she had a YouTube channel.
[00:18:59] Lo and behold, she sold over $30,000 of services in six weeks.
[00:19:05] Nathan: A little different than $80 an hour.
[00:19:07] Jessica: A hundred percent. And the best part about it was like she was on fire. Mm-hmm. And her website showed that she was on fire. I mean, all of it just called her people in and called her to the table. And she was like off to the races.
[00:19:19] Mm. Now she's got thousands of people on her YouTube channel. Um, so it was such a vast difference between, I'm like trading time for money. Mm-hmm. Chasing these clients, one off things to I'm gonna lean into this one person, I'm gonna create content around that. I'm gonna drive people to me. And, you know, she had her email list, she had her YouTube, she, she did all those things.
[00:19:41] Nathan: Right.
[00:19:41] Jessica: But those offers set her on a total trajectory different than where she was before.
[00:19:46] Nathan: Yeah. That's amazing. And I can see how that all fits together. What else in the hell? Yes. Offer is really important that you wanna make sure listeners understand and dive into.
[00:19:57] Jessica: I would say that, um, you don't wanna overcomplicate it.
[00:20:01] Like you don't, don't own 17 problems. Like do one thing. Yes. She wanted to give this person like piano mastery.
[00:20:08] Nathan: Right. That's a good thing to under own, own a problem.
[00:20:11] Jessica: Yes. You know, it's one thing and it's giving one solution and you're going all in on this one powerful offer. Mm-hmm. So keep it simple. Keep it really simple.
[00:20:22] Um, and if there's something in your business that's working now and you need to optimize that offer, like find out what that offer is, make sure you're excited about it. If you're not, bring it to the next level. Right. And like focus in on that one. That one thing.
[00:20:35] Nathan: Yeah. That makes sense. One problem. I love that.
[00:20:38] You know, we're talking about the impact, right? From before and after, and we have this line in here, right? Mm-hmm. Of unlock a hundred thousand dollars in hidden profit. Mm-hmm. So I could see this over and over again of someone basically saying, look, here's what I was offering before.
[00:20:52] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:52] Nathan: And people just aren't that interested.
[00:20:55] Mm-hmm. Right. Because they read off, they feed off of your energy, they don't resonate with the problem. Mm-hmm. You're not attracting the right people, you don't have a compelling solution, et cetera.
[00:21:02] Jessica: Mm-hmm. There's another client that I had that had a membership and it was similar where it was just kind of ho hum.
[00:21:07] It wasn't really dialed in. There wasn't a brand promise.
[00:21:09] Nathan: Right. One of those like, memberships are 50 bucks a month. Yes. So mine is two. Yes. I guess, I don't know.
[00:21:14] Jessica: Right. Who is this? Who's coming? Like, and people were coming, but now she's got like all of these clients. Mm-hmm. They're not getting consistent results.
[00:21:21] It's a huge lift for her. And really what she wanted was to work with people on a deeper level.
[00:21:27] Nathan: Right.
[00:21:27] Jessica: You know, she wanted people who wanted to really stand out from the crowd, show their thought leadership. Mm-hmm. Have that kind of a brand. And for her, when we revamped that offer, we actually moved it into a set of a 12 month.
[00:21:41] $50 a month type of a membership, which wasn't that exciting. Yeah. Wasn't calling anyone in. Um, huge lift for her. She's getting, you know, calls. She's got customer service, like all of these pieces when she really wanted to be doing something else, transform that offer for her into a four month, 4K program.
[00:21:58] Mm-hmm. Where it was like 15 to 20 people per cohort launching twice a year. Um, you know, I think she actually ran it in February and in September.
[00:22:09] Nathan: Okay.
[00:22:10] Jessica: And she sold out those cohorts. She made $120,000. It was sitting right there in her business. Yep. Same curriculum. Just delivered a little bit differently.
[00:22:19] Took her summers off, didn't work any more weekends, got to really be in there with her clients. Right. And touch them. Her life is completely different now. I mean,
[00:22:28] Nathan: oh yeah. She
[00:22:28] Jessica: took her whole summer off. Her holidays are off versus like ping ponging, you know, trying to make sure there's
[00:22:34] Nathan: such an important lifestyle design.
[00:22:36] Um, part of that. For example, I have a friend who owned a landscape pottery store mm-hmm. For years. Right. So it would import landscape pottery from Malaysia and Vietnam and all of that, and then would sell it all summer long. And so between March 15th and September 30th, he is slammed
[00:22:57] Jessica: Yeah. Out straight.
[00:22:58] Nathan: And then all winter
[00:23:00] Jessica: salmon,
[00:23:00] Nathan: like there's nothing going on. Right? Yes. And so I was always thinking about that. 'cause my business is very consistent Yeah. Year round right. Recurring revenue, all of that. Mm-hmm. But I realized like, oh, my friend has the perfect business if you love skiing, but if you love mountain biking and uh, wake surfing, he has the worst business ever.
[00:23:20] Totally. And so in this case, your client Yeah. You know, is like, okay, how could I design a business that where I could hit all of my revenue and profit goals and have summers and holidays off?
[00:23:29] Jessica: Exactly. And
[00:23:29] Nathan: you're like, it sounds too good to be true. It's like, no, just four month cohorts run it at very specific times of the year and.
[00:23:36] Just from it being a more compelling solution, probably for the right people. Those people are probably like, I would love to do that cohort, but it's in the middle of summer and my kids are outta school. Yes. Or like it's over the holidays. It's like, wait, what you want is actually what they wanna
[00:23:48] Jessica: Yes.
[00:23:49] Nathan: And so you can make these decisions when you're in full control.
[00:23:51] Jessica: Totally. And I think the eyeopener for her was like, Hey, you know that thing you wanted to do in 12 months? How about if we do it in four sound good? And they were like, hell yes, let's go. And it's like a love fest,
[00:24:01] Nathan: right? 'cause it would be easy to say, oh, I would love to charge $4,000, but really I could only do that if it's for a year, four months is too short.
[00:24:10] And you realize like, no, no, no. I don't have a year as your client. Yes, I would really like results in four months. Please. Yes, definitely. And so the shorter is actually a increased value proposition.
[00:24:20] Jessica: Exactly, yes.
[00:24:21] Nathan: Okay. So that is the hell yes. Offer. We can unlock a lot of revenue and profit from that.
[00:24:25] What's number two?
[00:24:26] Jessica: So number two, if you are an established business and you have an offer and you wanna grow, but you don't wanna do it by adding so much more complexity or you know, just chaos to your business, we wanna really stay to that place of optimization and unlocking what is already sitting there.
[00:24:44] Okay. One of the most powerful levers that you have in your business is looking through the lens of what can I add on or what can I bundle? Okay. Essentially increase the order volume that you have, offer more value to your clients, and make your life easier, generating that more revenue, and essentially more profit because you're streamlining.
[00:25:08] Mm-hmm. And you're selling more per customer.
[00:25:10] Nathan: Yep. So.
[00:25:12] Jessica: This is really where you're looking at your business and you're looking at your offers. Maybe you're looking at some assets that you have that people ask about all the time, or maybe you ran that great, you know, webinar at one point or something that if you were to put it together with the offers that you have, it would actually give your clients better value.
[00:25:30] Mm-hmm. And you could charge more for it in one transaction. Okay. So an example of what I mean by this sort type of an add-on is I had a client that actually ran a specialty book publishing company.
[00:25:44] Nathan: Okay.
[00:25:44] Jessica: We're talking like very expensive books.
[00:25:48] Nathan: I'm interested, when
[00:25:49] Jessica: I first, uh, learned about this, I was like, how much are people paying for a book?
[00:25:53] But these were collectibles. Oh,
[00:25:54] Nathan: taxes? Hundreds or thousands of dollars. Oh, hundreds
[00:25:56] Jessica: and thousands of dollars. Okay. Per book. Oh. And they would be limited. So they're collectible.
[00:26:01] Nathan: Yep.
[00:26:01] Jessica: And, um, they were selling these things in launches, but they were, they were sort of doing it one at a time. Mm-hmm. And so they were constantly needing to sort of, you know, launch and, and send these things out.
[00:26:13] So we looked at the business and we were like, how can we sell more to these people at one time and help you make more money and have to do this less? Right? So what we ended up doing, they had a, um, a special sort of like VIP community or it's, it wasn't really a community, but it was people that bought into a certain series.
[00:26:33] They call it the Modern Classic series. Okay. So they bought into the modern classic series and they would release these different books at different times of the year. So I said, well, how about if we tried to take the September launch that was coming up and instead of just launching that one book and selling that, you could have that book sell by itself, but you can also give people the option of buying the bundle.
[00:26:56] Okay. Which has the presale of the January release. Right. They were like, okay. I am like, okay, let's, let's do this. Buy your numbers, you're selling out. Mm-hmm. And the way that the modern classics worked is that when you bought one le one level of book, you then had the option of getting the next one when it opened.
[00:27:14] Okay. So there was urgency to actually getting this edition so you could get the next one. So we're like, let's go to these people who are like getting this and wanting it and give them the chance to buy right now. Mm. And so that's what we did. We positioned the modern classics September launch, the books were on $250 a piece, and it was a run of 250 books.
[00:27:34] And we gave them the option of here's the cool September book launch and here's like the super souped up VIP bundle for the January release. And we teased like what the title and the author was. Mm-hmm. And they sold out the entire 250 run and 80%. Of the January run.
[00:27:53] Nathan: Wow.
[00:27:54] Jessica: So they made a hundred and I think $20,000.
[00:27:58] Mm-hmm. In a week. Their cart was open for a week and we closed that, went back to their email list and all of the people on there. And then we sold out the other 20% without ever launching to the public for either launches.
[00:28:13] Nathan: And then you just build this reputation of like, it's just always sold out. If someone's like, I'm thinking about buying this, maybe, maybe not.
[00:28:19] And it's like, okay, well I wouldn't think for more than another 20 minutes or that, that's about how much time you have.
[00:28:26] Jessica: And that was the marketing that we are pulling forward into the other launch. It is. Mm-hmm. Last one sold out in three days.
[00:28:32] Nathan: Yep.
[00:28:33] Jessica: Or whatever. You know, the timeframe was, the beautiful thing about the add-ons and bundles is now he essentially made double
[00:28:41] Nathan: right
[00:28:41] Jessica: with 250 plus customers.
[00:28:45] And he has now a framework of how do we run the April release.
[00:28:51] Nathan: Oh yeah,
[00:28:52] Jessica: because it's repeatable now. This is an asset of how do you launch in this specialty look type of a business.
[00:28:58] Nathan: I love that. Something else that I think about a lot in this category would be tiered pricing. Mm-hmm. And this is something that I came across relatively early in, I guess, my journey as a creator entrepreneur.
[00:29:10] And so in 2012 I wrote a book called The App Design Handbook and Self-Publish it. And I sold that book for $39. So I guess I'll just sketch out, you know, first it was, I think the launch price was 29, but ultimately the, you know, was 39.
[00:29:25] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:26] Nathan: Which is a lot for a self-published book. Mm-hmm. But I'm like, I'm teaching, uh, practical skills that you're using in your career.
[00:29:33] Right. Yeah. But I had an email list of 800 people.
[00:29:36] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:37] Nathan: And so I'm like, oh, I'm, even if, you know, if we have a 5% conversion rate, you know, all stuff like, we're not gonna make that much money.
[00:29:42] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:43] Nathan: And so then I'm like, all right, what else could I do here?
[00:29:45] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:46] Nathan: And so then I decided to record videos.
[00:29:49] Yes. I made the next tier, uh, was for $99.
[00:29:55] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:56] Nathan: And that was the book plus these videos. Mm-hmm. And that, I think would've done well. Mm-hmm. But then a friend encouraged me, no, let's take this a step further and let's, you know, these are all added together. Mm-hmm. And then go ahead and add in all of these resources that you have.
[00:30:13] And so I took my Photoshop templates, um, anything that could save you time Yeah. And make this faster and all of that.
[00:30:20] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:21] Nathan: I packaged that up. The first version, the first book. I did this for 1 49. Yep. Um, the next book, I did it for 2 49. That was way better. Mm-hmm. So I'm gonna write 2 49 here. Mm-hmm.
[00:30:31] Just in case someone copies it and it's like, no, no, I, I iterated into it. You can go straight to the solution at the end.
[00:30:38] Jessica: Uhhuh.
[00:30:38] Nathan: So what happened here was absolutely wild. Because a lot of people came in and bought just the book and that was great. Mm-hmm. The students, anyone who was price sensitive. Yeah.
[00:30:49] So this sold the most copies. Okay. The breakdown on units was something like, you know, ballpark was something like 50, 50%. Mm-hmm. 30%, 20% on units, on revenue. Mm-hmm. It was almost the inverse. Yep. You know, it was 50%. Let's see, so let's say number and dollars. Um, I think, yeah, I think it was 50, 30 and then 20.
[00:31:22] And so what happened? I did the math. If I had sold the same number of units
[00:31:26] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:31:27] Nathan: You know, the collective, I don't know what it was, a few hundred copies.
[00:31:31] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:31:31] Nathan: And only had the $39 version. Yep. I would've made one amount of money.
[00:31:36] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Nathan: Compared to the breakdown of what actually happened, it was like two and a half times as much.
[00:31:40] Jessica: Yes.
[00:31:40] Nathan: And it was absolutely wild. And like I didn't price anybody out of the market.
[00:31:45] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:31:46] Nathan: And the other thing is there was something for each person.
[00:31:48] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:48] Nathan: So those who, it was like, look, just tell me what to do.
[00:31:52] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:31:53] Nathan: Great. $39. Yes. Show me what to do. Mm-hmm. Great. I have that version as well. Mm-hmm. And then the, hey, do as much of it for me as possible.
[00:32:02] Mm-hmm. It's like, okay, great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so tons of people who had company credit cards, you know, all of that. $39, 2 49, they round to the same number if you're putting on a corporate card, never had. That's right. If it's under 500 bucks, like you can probably spend the money without needing to like get approval from your manager.
[00:32:18] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:32:19] Nathan: And so this like idea of add-ons and bundles and really going back to like your hell Yes. Offer being priced and positioned appropriately. Yes. I mean, this was. A huge amount of money, like it doubled revenue more than doubled revenue right away. Mm-hmm. And I've used it on every single launch.
[00:32:38] Jessica: Yes.
[00:32:38] Ever
[00:32:38] Nathan: since.
[00:32:39] Jessica: And can I just say like, this is a love fest for everyone. It is. Win win, and then everyone that they tell about the books, it's win, win, win, win-win. Because you already had these things too. Right? Right. It was such a little lift. Mm-hmm. But the value went up and this person was like, hell yes.
[00:32:58] I'm buying a 2 49. And this person's like, awesome. $39.
[00:33:02] Nathan: Right.
[00:33:03] Jessica: And everyone's in love.
[00:33:04] Nathan: Right. And this person might be confused. Why would someone pay 2 49?
[00:33:07] Jessica: Right.
[00:33:07] Nathan: For that thing. And it's like, all right, that's, that's fine. You can select. Yes. The other thing that was helpful is doing like a recommended package.
[00:33:15] Mm-hmm. And so I played around with different things. Uh, I think the first version, you know, I had this as like the highlighted, recommended. Yeah. And then, you know, did different things later on. I just, I. What I finally did my last, uh, book launch, I sold this as the thing that I wanted you to buy. Yes. And I switched it from horizontal packages Yep.
[00:33:37] To vertical. Yep. And so it was like, here's the whole thing. Here's the whole bundle. Yeah. It's got interviews, it's got, you know, all of this stuff. Mm-hmm. Or if that's much money, you could buy this instead, which is the $99 version. Mm-hmm. Or if you just wanna check it out, you know, here's the $39 version.
[00:33:51] Right. And then of course, the other thing is you reference this with your client going back to their email list later.
[00:33:57] Jessica: Yes.
[00:33:58] Nathan: Anyone who buys these two packages mm-hmm. You can then pitch an offer
[00:34:03] Jessica: Yep.
[00:34:03] Nathan: To come back and buy the whole thing for the difference.
[00:34:06] Jessica: That's right.
[00:34:07] Nathan: And oh, it just prints money.
[00:34:09] Jessica: It's so good.
[00:34:10] It's so good. Which actually brings us to profit lever number three. Okay. Which is reactivation.
[00:34:16] Nathan: Oh yeah.
[00:34:17] Jessica: And this idea, exactly like you said, that. Your existing audience, your, those people in your email list, those previous clients, like, they are so warm. And when you have a warm person, guess what they do?
[00:34:37] They convert really easily. Yes. And they're not only just converting, like they are thrilled to give you their money, you know? Right. So, um, it is so important that businesses really leverage that reactivation. Mm-hmm. And they, I think the number one reason that people leave money on the table and they don't sell offers is because they don't give another offer for people to buy.
[00:35:04] Right. So when you have this and then you're like, oh, we just went through the thing, launch is over. It's like, no, it's not. You can go right back to these people and now offer them this thing.
[00:35:13] Nathan: Well, that's a great point because based on my numbers here, which. Or off of memory.
[00:35:18] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:18] Nathan: But only 80 per or only 20% purchased.
[00:35:21] Right. My highest price item, which means that there's 80% that I have some kind of upsell to offer. Correct. And I can bring back either immediately. Yep. Or a month later or you know, something like that. Hey, I hope you enjoyed the book.
[00:35:35] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:35:35] Nathan: All this. Hey, I brought this offer if you want to Yep. Go ahead and check out the additional resources.
[00:35:39] Jessica: Yes. And this works for everybody. Mm-hmm. It works for, if you are an online business, it works incredibly well if you are a brick and mortar business. If you have people and you have an audience, it is a gold mine and not just a gold mine in money. Of course it's a gold mine and money and cash flows.
[00:35:55] Nathan: Is this why you wear the bright yellow?
[00:35:56] That's the gold is why we wear the yell gold.
[00:35:59] Jessica: Yes, I am. Like, reactivate your clients and make money.
[00:36:02] Nathan: Yes,
[00:36:02] Jessica: exactly. And be excited about it. Um, but the, those people, they're there. They bought in already. They love you. So put something in front of them. Um, one of my clients, oh, actually, and I should say one more thing.
[00:36:16] Make it a thing, like when you were doing this bundle, there's energy behind that. Mm-hmm. You've made it something unique. You've given it an identity where it's the such and such bundle, or it's the s such experience. I don't know how you, I should've, I should've
[00:36:28] Nathan: done that better. Okay. That's something that I didn't do well.
[00:36:31] Jessica: Um,
[00:36:31] Nathan: but I'm just gonna write that down of like, um, would you say name it like Yeah, give it an identity. Give it an identity.
[00:36:37] Jessica: Yeah. And a name is always awesome for that because that's how people are buying in. And I will just be transparent, like, I am this person. Mm-hmm. Like, I could just need the book, but I'm like, Ooh, the VIP thing, I am that I'm buying that VIP thing.
[00:36:49] Yes. And there are a lot of people like me. Mm-hmm. Like that 2% is always right there waiting to buy the best thing. Mm-hmm. But a lot of times we're like, oh, we're not gonna spend that much money. Maybe we're gonna out price them. We kind of forget about them, but they're like the lowest hanging fruit and the biggest part of your revenue.
[00:37:07] Nathan: Right.
[00:37:08] Jessica: So give people a, like they need to see themselves in that offer. But when you go back to your people in your email list. You know them. Like what have, what have you sold before that you really like? What is catching on? Can you put that into something you can put back in front of your audience? And it could be just like you did, you just did it.
[00:37:28] But now we're offering it to these people again, we're reactivating that 80% that didn't buy up. It could also be people that haven't bought in a while or a sitting dormant sort of in your list. Take that thing that people really like. It's been generating you money. Give it an identity and push it out.
[00:37:46] Um, and an example of that that I've seen with my clients, we actually did the two tier, so of an offer we had, um, it was a retail store in Virginia and they sold a lot of fair trade and different types of items, but always like great quality things. Mm-hmm. And they had these workshops and one of them was making a candle.
[00:38:02] They called it a candle bar, but they were basically marketing it. Like, it's just sort of a like, come to our candle bar. Okay. And it wasn't really that exciting and it didn't really give you a reason, like, am I a candle bar person? I'm not sure. Like, what is what I supposed to do with this? Yeah. So we actually recreated it into creating like a memory that lasts.
[00:38:22] It became an experience and we positioned it where you could either buy the normal candle mm-hmm. Or you could buy the premium candle that's a little bigger. It has the cool toppers. Mm-hmm. And it was about 20% more. And we ran that. And then there was also ano another bundle add-on that you could get the VIP version that allowed you to make your own body spray.
[00:38:47] Okay. So it's like, make your own candle, buy itself standard, get the cool topper, bigger prize, VIP, or then do the body spray too. And this is something where you can make memories, come with your friends, come with your families, do something with your kids. She, her goal was to, um, sell with, sell these workshops out.
[00:39:05] And she was not doing that. She was really freaking out because it was her slow season. And so we revamped the whole thing and she's now selling out, she's almost a hundred percent sold out for her Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday classes. And um, she actually just sent me a message that said that she is up 76% from last August.
[00:39:34] Nathan: Okay.
[00:39:34] Jessica: Which was her slowest month. And she's up 26% from July.
[00:39:41] Nathan: Okay. Wow.
[00:39:41] Jessica: With one product,
[00:39:43] Nathan: 76% year over year growth. I'm just gonna write that down. Yeah. And that's, uh, I don't know where to put this. Uh, yeah, I'd say that's pretty effective. It's effective. Yeah. Every business owner is like, I'll take 76% year over year.
[00:39:57] Yeah.
[00:39:58] Jessica: Yeah. And the cool thing about this was she went to her list. Mm-hmm. She went to her to, to her existing audience. We just rejigged this, right? Repositioned it, made it more hell yes. Made the order volume bigger. So now, instead of like the standard being a $30 candle, if you get the, the VIP version with the, with the spray mm-hmm.
[00:40:18] It's now 50.
[00:40:19] Nathan: Yep. I'm just gonna add in. So it was the, it's the average order value, right? That went up.
[00:40:26] Jessica: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:40:27] Nathan: There you go. Yep. Yeah. And that's a key thing. I bet a lot of people are not tracking that metric.
[00:40:34] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:40:35] Nathan: Of when a buyer comes to me
[00:40:36] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:40:37] Nathan: On average, how much did they spend?
[00:40:38] Jessica: Right.
[00:40:39] Nathan: Exactly.
[00:40:39] They look at like, you know, this month we made $27,000 Yep. From this number of people, but like continue to, to map that out and then checking things of like, Hey. If I have my sales page lined up like this, what's the average order value? Correct. And then if I have it lined up vertically mm-hmm. You know, with the, you know, the, this is the primary offer, what's the average order value
[00:41:00] Jessica: Exactly.
[00:41:01] Nathan: And how can I shift that over time?
[00:41:03] Jessica: Exactly. And to that end, if she did nothing else in her business mm-hmm. Except put the emphasis on the $50 option versus the 30, she would double her business just doing that same candle bar, same pouring the things. Right. I mean the, the cost minimal. It's a minimal increase.
[00:41:24] Yep. Now everything is streamlined and she's doubling her business.
[00:41:26] Nathan: There's something else in that a lot of people, you know, will not notice the increase in profit. They only notice the increase in revenue. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know. A simple example of this is, let's say that, um. Uh, what would a good example, you're selling a $10 product mm-hmm.
[00:41:42] And it costs you $8 all in. Yeah. When you factor in your employee costs, your physical, you know, everything, your space rent rented and all of that.
[00:41:49] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:50] Nathan: And so then you're like, okay, so that was $10. If I could sell it for 15 mm-hmm. That'd be a 50% increase in revenue. And you're like, yes, that's correct.
[00:41:58] If you kept the same number of units. Mm-hmm. But I won't even do the math. But it'd be an insane increase. You know, your profit just went from $2 to $7 per unit.
[00:42:05] Jessica: Exactly.
[00:42:06] Nathan: And so you're like, oh, we're three and a half times the profit. Yep. And they, they don't realize how big of a difference that makes.
[00:42:12] Correct. And they also don't realize how big of a difference in the inverse discounting makes.
[00:42:18] Jessica: Yes.
[00:42:18] Nathan: Because you're like, oh, I'm just gonna discount this by 10%. Mm-hmm. And you're like, no, you only had like, you know, if this is our, our bucket and you know, this is our costs. Mm-hmm. And this right here is our profit.
[00:42:31] Yes. If I discount by 10%, I'm just eliminating, like that's coming straight. It's 10% of the total.
[00:42:37] Jessica: That's right.
[00:42:38] Nathan: And it's coming straight out of
[00:42:39] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:42:40] Nathan: The profit side of it. Mm-hmm. And so you're like, Ooh, that's
[00:42:43] Jessica: painful.
[00:42:43] Nathan: That's very, very painful. And so understanding the relationship between order value and profit and uh, you know, your cost of good sold and all that Yeah.
[00:42:51] Is very important. Yeah. On the digital side, we don't have to worry about it as much. Mm-hmm. But it's still so important to know.
[00:42:55] Jessica: Yeah. I think on the digital side though, the, the danger people get into is the cost of their energy. Okay. Okay. So like for your example here, you had, I bet you you had this video or you, you had thought of this before where you could add it on easily.
[00:43:11] Nathan: Yeah, I went through and recorded tutorial, you know, it was. The source material was all in the book. Right. It's already done. And I went and recorded video versions of what was in the book.
[00:43:20] Jessica: Right. So it was a small, like the cost is small.
[00:43:23] Nathan: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:24] Jessica: What would be bad is if he were like, let me go record all these things that I've never done before, and I don't, I have to now research.
[00:43:31] And I don't know if it was like on Dan's, um, episode that he did with you, he's like, that research that 50% mm-hmm. That you spend upfront looking and researching. When you create all these new things all the time or burn something to the ground, you are constantly reinvesting that 50% of energy. And some of it does have a cost, but with creators, a lot of times it's you, like you're record the thing, you're, so it doesn't cost you a lot to get on a zoom.
[00:43:56] Right? Right. You're already paying for Zoom, but you're spending 17 hours now creating something new. Mm-hmm. Versus like, I did the hard work. I wrote the book, I'm just gonna package this thing now in a, in a soundbite differently.
[00:44:08] Nathan: Yep.
[00:44:09] Jessica: There's, there is cost, but it's small. So. That makes a lot of sense. That was start with, yes.
[00:44:14] Nathan: Um, so go diving into the reactivation one. Yeah. What are the things that, like what are the, the sub levers within reactivation or the, the steps that are really important for us to pay attention to?
[00:44:24] Jessica: Yeah, I mean, I think the first piece is you, you need to, you need to be capturing and know where your audience is and your customers.
[00:44:31] Okay. And I know that sounds funny to say that, um, and maybe you've experienced this too. I've worked with a lot of people who are not capturing their clients in anything like sort of formal, I mean, I would even take a spreadsheet, right? But like, these are your people. This is who's spending the money, this is what they're buying.
[00:44:51] Like it is clear that you are capturing them somewhere so that you know exactly who to reactivate,
[00:44:57] Nathan: right.
[00:44:58] Jessica: With what. And you can, again, make that lock and key really simple. Mm-hmm. So capturing that is important.
[00:45:06] Nathan: I have, uh, an example of this. Mm-hmm. So, uh, Kevin Hart mm-hmm. When he wrote his book, which I'm now, I can't make this up, I think is the name of the book.
[00:45:17] Um, but, uh, he talked about how he made the leap from an opening act, one of many opening acts in standup comedy mm-hmm. To being the headliner. Mm. And the difference was he captured contact info. And so what would happen is he would go to a city and he's just part of this tour, he's getting paid like a hundred bucks
[00:45:41] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:45:41] Nathan: To get, to be on stage in front of, you know, a few hundred people and then like gradually bigger and bigger things. And eventually, you know, he is making $400, something like not enough that you can live off of. Right. But what he started doing is he started passing around a clipboard. At each event and I said, Hey, if you wanna hear more and hear when I'm coming back, all that, put down your name and email address.
[00:46:02] Mm-hmm. And then what would happen is when he came back to that city, he would email people
[00:46:09] Jessica: so smart.
[00:46:09] Nathan: And the usually he said by the third time they visited the city, he was the headliner because he, all they cared about is, you know, someone's booking comedians. Right. To who can attract the audience.
[00:46:21] That's right. Who will, you know, I have a room. Yeah. It has 400 seats. Mm-hmm. Who could fill it? Who could fill the room?
[00:46:27] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:46:28] Nathan: I think you have the best shot of it. Cool. You're the headliner. You know, and down from there. Right. Um, and so he used email, and he talks about this in his book of how capturing contact info was the, the key thing, because to your point, he has to be able to reactivate people.
[00:46:43] Jessica: Yes.
[00:46:43] Nathan: When he's coming to Philadelphia or Boston, you know, for the second, third, fourth time. He has to be able to have more people than the first time. Yep. And more people. More people than the previous time.
[00:46:53] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:54] Nathan: And so, yeah. Anyway, a long way of saying capturing contact info is key.
[00:46:58] Jessica: Yeah. And, and a lot of people do not do this.
[00:47:00] I mean, we're talking businesses mm-hmm. Big businesses where you're like, what am I hearing this wrong? Like, know who your customers are, know what they're buying, know what they want, know what resonated. Because part of the reactivation is putting that thing back in front of people, um, in a way that they really want it.
[00:47:17] Mm-hmm. And so you need to know what that is. So it's capturing the contact info and then it's like knowing what they want. So take, take the thing that works, um, and put it back in front of, in front of them. You know, your example is great. Like they, they wanted this thing, right. I'm gonna give it back to them.
[00:47:33] Mm-hmm. If they're, people are always asking about your webinar thing or whatever it is that they love, how can you package that and put it back in front of it? And the other thing I wanna say about it is, and this is like do it while they are hot. Okay. So one of the things that we did with reactivating people at the candle bar is at the end of them, we said, wanna book your next one?
[00:47:56] Hey, we have this theme coming up spooky candle night in October.
[00:48:00] Nathan: Right.
[00:48:01] Jessica: Do you want to book this one? And she would get like 50% of her signups right there on the spot. Mm-hmm. Because they're having a great time. They've made an experience. We,
[00:48:11] Nathan: they're with people. That's right. And they're like, Hey, do you wanna do this again?
[00:48:13] Jessica: That's right. They've met new friends. You never, never hang out this, let's just get a
[00:48:16] Nathan: time to hang out on the calendar. Right. 30 days from now.
[00:48:19] Jessica: Yeah. Oh, we could go to the spooky blah, blah, blah blah thing after that. Right. Great. And the whole thing just mm-hmm. 'cause they're ready. They've got their credit cards, they're in it.
[00:48:26] Right. So that is another piece of it is like the timing of it. Mm-hmm. You know, even with memberships, like if people are coming up to the end of their membership, how do you put something in front of them, like the cool thing that's coming out next month so that they don't Right. Quit.
[00:48:40] Nathan: Yep. What about reactivating people who are cold?
[00:48:44] So I think about an example for Kit would be mm-hmm. You know, we have, I mean now it's tens of thousands of people signing up every month, and a portion of those find a huge amount of success. Many more don't, either they're checking it out or the timing is wrong, or mm-hmm. Or whatever else. Or we didn't have a feature they wanted.
[00:49:00] And so we stay in touch with, um, you know, marketing and advice, things like this podcast. Mm-hmm. Right. Because someone will be like, oh, I'm not on Kip, but I love learning from the podcast. You know? And so then they'll stay in our circles and we'll be top of mind when it's, when it's ready.
[00:49:14] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:14] Nathan: But a big thing is we'll send out emails of like, Hey, uh, here are the features that we launched this month.
[00:49:19] Yeah. Yes. I'm just staying in touch. But I think a lot of people are gonna have the problem of, they're like, yeah, I captured lots of content info. Mm-hmm. I haven't done anything with it or, yeah. So what types of offers, how do you handle reactivating, you know, cold users or customers?
[00:49:33] Jessica: Yeah, so that's a great question.
[00:49:35] So you wanna give them a reason, so first? Mm-hmm. You need to put an offer in front of them. A lot of people will not go back to their cold list and make the offer. Something bingey to bring them back in
[00:49:47] Nathan: or that, yeah. What I see a lot and probably have been guilty of myself is like, well, I've been emailing them educational material this whole time.
[00:49:54] Jessica: Right?
[00:49:54] Nathan: And it's like, cool, that's great.
[00:49:56] Jessica: Right?
[00:49:56] Nathan: Better than nothing.
[00:49:57] Jessica: Right.
[00:49:57] Nathan: But like educational material and then an offer maybe. Right? No call, call to action. Do you wanna put the call to action in them? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:50:03] Jessica: So for your features, make it a thing. Mm-hmm. You know, if, if I was coming into town and headlining and I wanted to bring you back to my show, what would I make that experience?
[00:50:14] What identity would I give you? Right. That fits with this experience that would make them come back in and to your point, have the button and the CT right there on the page in the email.
[00:50:25] Nathan: Right.
[00:50:26] Jessica: You know,
[00:50:27] Nathan: I was gonna say cold. You just need to make an offer.
[00:50:30] Jessica: Yeah. And a good one. Like know what their problem is.
[00:50:34] I mean, if for you, for example. You are creating features because people have this problem. Right. So it should be pretty lock and key. Mm-hmm. But you wanna that email's really, it's about the feature, but it's about the feature converting this person to come back in.
[00:50:48] Nathan: Yeah. And I'm thinking about if we go back to the Kevin Hart example.
[00:50:50] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:50:51] Nathan: You know, if, if he's saying, Hey, I'm back. Yes. Come again. And like, oh, I love the show. I'd be happy to come back. But he could make a very compelling offer. Hey, as someone who came to my show already in Philadelphia, and I know that because I captured contact info from
[00:51:06] Jessica: the people there. Like I
[00:51:06] Nathan: know you were there.
[00:51:07] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:08] Nathan: Then I have this thing, if you buy two tickets. Yes. So you, and you bring a friend. Mm-hmm. Then we're gonna host this happy hour. Yep. Before the, the show. Well like, we'll do a meet and greet happy hour with like the first 50 people who buy.
[00:51:22] Jessica: Yes.
[00:51:22] Nathan: Right. And so then you have the option to say, Hey, you know that comedian I was telling you about I went to like six months ago.
[00:51:28] He's back.
[00:51:29] Jessica: Yep.
[00:51:29] Nathan: And actually I can get both of us in for a little meet and greet beforehand. And so then it's like, I gotta bring, I'm bringing a friend in. Yeah. So that would be a wildly compelling offer. Yes. You know, that it brings in someone else and we get people coming back and then, you know, the, uh, the booking agent or whoever runs the venue was like, wait, how did you get twice as many people?
[00:51:51] Right. And it'd actually probably be thrilled because it's like, well you brought them in early and they bought drinks. And so the venue, he is like, wait, why did your people buy twice as many drinks as that's, you know, the other comedians like, well, 'cause I brought them in early and did an hour, happy hour and like met them all.
[00:52:05] Jessica: Yeah. And not only that, I told them to go get a drink. Right, right. I made it in at the bar. Yes. You know, it's right there. Which I think, which would
[00:52:13] Nathan: increase our, uh, average order value.
[00:52:15] Jessica: That's right. And even looking at that, like, where am I making my money? Is it the ticket sale? Is it the bar? Having that path.
[00:52:23] Mm-hmm. And I think that's, and that actually touches on Le Lever number four, which you just mentioned, which is the referral.
[00:52:29] Nathan: Oh yes. Okay. Right.
[00:52:31] Jessica: So when you tell someone, am I, is it RRA? Yeah. Two Rs. Yeah.
[00:52:36] Nathan: Right. Did I get that right? I
[00:52:37] Jessica: think that's right. Okay. It looks right.
[00:52:40] Nathan: There you go.
[00:52:41] Jessica: Now you are doubling your order volume, you're reigniting cold leads, and then you are now creating another fan here.
[00:52:50] Nathan: Right.
[00:52:51] Jessica: So the list gets bigger, it's another buyer. Mm-hmm. And this whole thing talk about like love, love, this becomes your, this really becomes your marketing stream because people know other good people, they know people like them. Mm-hmm. And now that is bringing people back into the beginning and the whole thing is a really powerful flywheel.
[00:53:15] Mm-hmm. Um, I have seen this work incredibly well. And I think when people. Yes. It's like bring a friend is very good and it's overt. Yep. But sometimes you can bake this in to your offers. Okay. Where it's not like a bring a friend day per se. Um,
[00:53:31] Nathan: you're not like on the nose with it. It's like Right. It's more, more subtle and intentional.
[00:53:36] Jessica: Yes. And it becomes a standard process of the way that you do business. Okay. Which is incredibly powerful. So the things you wanna look for here is like, where can we create those sort of experiences where that plus one is like standard part of the business? Mm-hmm. So it becomes almost an SOP, like when we roll, roll out this offer, when we do this type of an event, we're always going to include that.
[00:54:02] Nathan: What's our plus one?
[00:54:02] Jessica: Yes. What is our plus one? Okay. Why should somebody else come? Why should you tell someone about this? Mm-hmm. The other thing is, um, is the asking how many people do not consistently ask for a referral? Hmm. Even testimonials. I mean, this is a joke that I have with my, um, with one of my mentors.
[00:54:21] I'm like, Hey, this thing just happened. She's like, great testimonial. Like, she doesn't wanna here, she's like, get the, you know, get the thing that's gonna bring somebody else in.
[00:54:30] Nathan: Okay. I'm thinking about that when came to mind today. So, uh, Jenna Kutcher is a good friend. Mm-hmm. But she's been on another platform for a long time.
[00:54:38] She recently migrated a kit. Yeah. And she sent me the most glowing, like voice memo and screenshot. Like our team just went above and beyond take care of her team So good. Which was fantastic. And I, I'm thrilled as a business owner and all of that. It'd be a perfect opportunity to, you know, follow up like later today or tomorrow and be like, amazing.
[00:54:57] Hey, would you mind sending a testimonial that we could use on our migrations page? Yes,
[00:55:01] Jessica: yes.
[00:55:01] Nathan: You know, and it's perfect, right? 'cause you just sent a, a whole raving thing. Mm-hmm. But I didn't, like I didn't ask for the testimonial. Right. Thankfully, I, the timing is right. I still can.
[00:55:10] Jessica: You can, yeah. And even if your team wants to take what she sent and say, Hey, we would really love to share this, right.
[00:55:16] We just took the thing. Is this okay with you? Yes. So she's not even like, starting with a blank piece of paper.
[00:55:21] Nathan: Yeah. Oh yeah. That's fantastic. That's
[00:55:23] Jessica: really leverageable. Um, so we try to break, bake this into our clients', you know, business. And we've done this with people. Um, especially we, we have a lot of brick and mortar clients.
[00:55:33] We've created memberships for them. It is the lifeblood of their business. It is referral, um, based. But the way that we created this offer was we wanna get people on a recurring, you're gonna spend this money every month. It's basically like a credit. So you pay for different tiers? Yep. Just like tier one, tier two, tier three.
[00:55:52] And actually it was, it's very simple. So she's got three tiers and I think this one is 1 99, this one is 2 99.
[00:56:00] Nathan: Are these monthly or yearly? Monthly. Okay.
[00:56:02] Jessica: And then this one is 4 99. This is like,
[00:56:04] Nathan: I like the jump there, goal
[00:56:05] Jessica: level. And what we did was we baked all these cool things. So you get special pricing, you get to share this with somebody in your house.
[00:56:16] This is, could be your husband, daughter, whomever. So you can share all the membership benefits you could share with a plus one in your home. And then you could also share it with another friend one time where they come in and they can get the all the benefits and then if they love it, they have to buy their own membership.
[00:56:35] Okay. And then there's also a special like fun VIP events that we run just for members. So we really like lean into these people and we make it sort of proliferate. Right. And the amount of people that we have gotten in just by doing the plus one has been crazy because there is literally no hurdle. Like, we're hanging out, we're gonna go to the spa, you wanna come with me?
[00:56:59] Great. You can get all the benefits
[00:57:01] Nathan: Right.
[00:57:01] Jessica: Of my membership. And then, oh, you love it. You can buy your own now.
[00:57:05] Nathan: Yeah.
[00:57:06] Jessica: It's awesome.
[00:57:07] Nathan: I'm realizing there's a climbing gym that I'm a member of that has a version of the same thing where they say, Hey, once a month you can invite someone else, um, so long as their first time here this month.
[00:57:20] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:57:21] Nathan: So like, if I wanted to climb with my brother or something like that, I could even, I could have him come 12 times a year for free.
[00:57:26] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:57:27] Nathan: Mm-hmm. It just has to be spaced out once a month.
[00:57:29] Jessica: Interesting.
[00:57:30] Nathan: Because they're just like, you know, getting him, getting
[00:57:32] Jessica: him in the door.
[00:57:32] Nathan: Getting him in the door, and then like, you know, I can't bring him with me every time.
[00:57:37] Mm-hmm. 'cause I, he needs to buy a membership,
[00:57:38] Jessica: you know? Right. And he probably would want to.
[00:57:40] Nathan: Right.
[00:57:40] Jessica: You know, but
[00:57:41] Nathan: that. And I think it would prevent, like the family, you know, like sure, oh, I'm just continually bringing my kid instead of paying for an membership. Right. But that, that simple thing is, you know, just, I'm gonna go climbing.
[00:57:51] I'd love to go with someone else. Oh, I can actually bring you for free.
[00:57:53] Jessica: Yes. You
[00:57:54] Nathan: know?
[00:57:54] Jessica: Exactly.
[00:57:54] Nathan: Now you're also probably gonna rent shoes and a harness, you know, like
[00:57:57] Jessica: That's right. That's like the bar example. Like what other things are they gonna buy? Impulse buy just from being there. Um,
[00:58:03] Nathan: right. But that's built in, right into that.
[00:58:05] That's the plus one in your SOP. Mm-hmm. What are some examples of plus ones on the digital side where you're like, did you come to each your offer? Yeah. And you're like, all right. Mm-hmm. My SOP says I gotta at least spend half an hour brainstorming what a plus one would be.
[00:58:20] Jessica: Oh, yeah. I mean, on the digital side, I'll tell you what I do in my business for, for my paying clients, I have a VIP community.
[00:58:27] Mm-hmm. And it is just, if you have bought one of the my offers, you're in the community. Okay. So it's free. And I love on these people, they're like, it is like a love fest in there. So good. And there's value in all of those things. But once a quarter we will have a sort of like a bring a friend day. Mm. And those people just come in and they get access to the experience and all the things.
[00:58:47] And I cannot tell you how many people have just bought into programs just from having come into that experience. Mm-hmm. So if you're holding a weekly call in your community or a monthly call. Make one of them a bring a friend.
[00:59:02] Nathan: Mm-hmm. Yep.
[00:59:02] Jessica: And have that person come in and experience it.
[00:59:05] Nathan: Right. Everyone who's doing consistent content could, could do it, bring a friend up a hundred
[00:59:11] Jessica: percent.
[00:59:11] Nathan: And you could do it once a month, once a quarter. Like just feel out what the right cadence is.
[00:59:16] Jessica: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:59:17] Nathan: And then it feels like, uh, I'm just coming back to the hell Yes. Offer. Right. Yeah. It, it's one of those things that makes it feel more compelling. Someone's raving about it. You get to show off that level of energy that you're bringing in.
[00:59:29] Mm-hmm. And then, yeah, it also, I mean, you know, going back to the pricing side of it, you know, you're like, oh, and I get to once a month, bring a friend to this or Absolutely. Absolutely. It makes it way more vibe. You know, I'm buying the climbing gym offer. I'm like. For whatever, it's a hundred bucks a month or 60 bucks a month.
[00:59:47] Is that worth it? Oh. But if I bring a friend, half staff, which they're like, please bring a friend. That's our marketing.
[00:59:53] Jessica: Yeah.
[00:59:53] Nathan: But I'm, I'm seeing their marketing as
[00:59:56] Jessica: a benefit to you as a
[00:59:57] Nathan: benefit to me.
[00:59:58] Jessica: Yeah. And it's feel good,
[00:59:59] Nathan: right?
[00:59:59] Jessica: Well, you know, I actually did this and I'm this, here's the other piece of it.
[01:00:03] Make it strategic. What are you gonna talk about during this? Bring a friend. Yes. You know, for us, when we were really selling the hell yes. Offer immersions. Mm-hmm. We would talk about people's offer. Let's hot seat people's offer for the mm-hmm. The guests that are coming in, let's talk about your offer.
[01:00:17] How can we help you optimize it? Right. They'll be like, man, I really think I have a problem with my offer. And then they buy value software programs, so be strategic about it. Mm-hmm. You know, if you're gonna invite people in, for example, you know, your cold list, you're gonna put it in front of them a come back for a month or come back for a day on us, what kind of things are you gonna be rolling out and talking about that month that's gonna get them.
[01:00:42] To re-enroll.
[01:00:44] Nathan: Right. Yep. That makes a lot of
[01:00:46] Jessica: sense. So yeah, that, that's important.
[01:00:48] Nathan: What else in the, the referral, like the referral is so important and I would say like so many flywheels, I design all of that come down to this referral step. Yeah. But a lot of people just say like, yeah. And then it's like hand wavy, you know, like, oh, and then, you know, add referrals.
[01:01:02] Mm-hmm. And then see it just compounds from there and, and you're like, but how do you do that? Right. And I always think about how do you engineer it? Yes. Not hope for the outcome or all of that.
[01:01:10] Jessica: Yeah. Well, this SOP piece here where I'm saying like this plus one is start part of their standard operating procedure.
[01:01:16] Mm-hmm. I actually think like you need to make referrals part of how you do business. I think the problem with referrals to your point, is it's an afterthought.
[01:01:24] Nathan: Yeah. It's the add-on or the, yeah.
[01:01:26] Jessica: Right. Maybe I'll remember to ask for the testimonial. Right. You know, those types of things. It's like, no, just like with Kevin Hart bringing people in and leading them to the bar.
[01:01:35] Nathan: Right.
[01:01:36] Jessica: You need to bring people in and they have an amazing experience and you get. The referral. You ask for the testimonial. You, you do the plus one. That's part of your quarterly business plan. It is not a byproduct, it's not just a side thing. It's part, it is your marketing. Mm-hmm. Just like you're like, I'm sending emails every week, like I am going to drive this referral system like consistently and as a part of my business.
[01:02:00] Nathan: Right? Yep. That, that makes a lot of sense.
[01:02:03] Jessica: And have it be like for formal, it's not just a marketing tactic. It could become your marketing system.
[01:02:11] Nathan: Yeah. You have to have momentum.
[01:02:14] Jessica: Yep.
[01:02:14] Nathan: First, but it can be the accelerator rather than being in this grind.
[01:02:19] Jessica: Right.
[01:02:19] Nathan: You know,
[01:02:19] Jessica: and when you have clients who are winning, like you do, like businesses that are established and they, they've got this thing going, it's like, how do you make that work for you?
[01:02:28] How do you throw the kerosene on there? And you can, you could do it in, in many different ways. Maybe it's a bring a friend day, maybe it's part of, um, your, you know, monthly programs where it's just like you, somebody can bring one person to the gym mm-hmm. Extra per month. Or there's something, you know, that you bake in there.
[01:02:46] Um, yeah. The other thing too that's, um, powerful about both this and reactivation, when I used to run cohorts every quarter, I would actually offer a special, um, package or a special pricing to the people that were already in that cohort. Oh, okay. So I would end up bringing almost 50% of the people over to the next cohort.
[01:03:08] Mm-hmm. Because of what I was putting in front of them. And, and did you like increasing that long-term value of that client? While you're like in that system, it also
[01:03:21] Nathan: has the added effect of someone comes in and you're teaching someone something and they're in the comments or in the discussion be like, oh yeah, I implemented that.
[01:03:30] Amazing. Exactly. Game changer. And you're like, you just bring your own paid hype person. Right. But they're paying you not their way around. Mm-hmm. We do this with, uh, creator dinners where if I'm hosting, you know, like say I'm in New York and I'm hosting a eight or 10 person dinner. Yeah. You have this interesting balance.
[01:03:48] Sometimes we'll do them where it's all existing customers.
[01:03:50] Jessica: Yeah.
[01:03:51] Nathan: Right. And that's all about retention and building this relationships and, and uh, you know, maybe generating some referrals as well. But what I really like is we can get that, that split of like four existing customers and then you know, four people that aren't customers yet.
[01:04:06] Because then the existing customers do all my selling for me. That's right. Like I, yeah. Out, out at dinner, you know, people are just said like, guy. Can I sell kit for you? And it's like, yeah, absolutely. I was like, well here's why I use it. And they rattle off all of those reasons.
[01:04:18] Jessica: Yeah. And you can make your dinners part of your business, right?
[01:04:21] Like that is one of your offers. Your like lead magnets basically is those dinners and you're very strategic about who you invite in and are they extroverts and are they gonna talk to the other people at dinner? You know? But community now is so important for people. That in person is really powerful.
[01:04:38] Um, you know, you hold events. Mm-hmm. Like how can you make those people, to your point, your customers at those events sell.
[01:04:47] Nathan: Right. Other people, I mean we did that for craft and commerce, you know, getting an event off the ground is incredibly difficult. Yeah. I thought building software was hard. Billion it meant is way harder.
[01:04:57] And so getting the, that initial momentum for a handful of years, we did these, bring a friend tickets.
[01:05:03] Jessica: Mm.
[01:05:03] Nathan: Where like the best price came from if you bought two. You had to think about like, okay, who, and our, our like soft rule was like, no, we don't mean the person who's next to you right now. Right?
[01:05:11] Jessica: Oh yeah.
[01:05:12] Like this
[01:05:12] Nathan: is, you know, for you to go bring someone system new into the community. Yeah. Yeah. And it really worked. And craft and commerce is a sold out event now. See,
[01:05:20] Jessica: see,
[01:05:20] Nathan: and it's all because, you know, we were like, all right, what's our plus one?
[01:05:24] Jessica: You get an a plus. So thank you. Thank you.
[01:05:26] Nathan: That's what I've been working towards.
[01:05:28] Jessica: Yeah.
[01:05:29] Nathan: I feel like people really resonate with examples on referrals. So not to put you on the spot too much, but is there another example of a referral system that you put in place for a business?
[01:05:38] Jessica: Yeah. Well if we go back to actually this, um, the candle bar Uhhuh person, um, we actually offered them a special ticket price to bring someone else.
[01:05:46] So we said, Hey, if you're here and you wanna come to the next one, we can sell you into that. If you bring a plus one, like they can come for free.
[01:05:54] Nathan: Oh, wow.
[01:05:55] Jessica: And that was part of why all of her things started selling out
[01:05:58] Nathan: because yeah, they're saying, Hey, how do we double the number of people right, that even know about us?
[01:06:02] Because maybe it's like. In our total funnel, you know, it might not, conversions might not be the problem. People actually loving the events not the problem. It might just be that most people don't know we exist. Yeah,
[01:06:13] Jessica: sure.
[01:06:14] Nathan: Yeah. And so if you're, like, if awareness is the problem then, and your cost of goods sold is mm-hmm.
[01:06:18] Okay. Where it's like, look it still make a profit.
[01:06:20] Jessica: Yep.
[01:06:21] Nathan: If, if plus ones are free
[01:06:23] Jessica: Yep.
[01:06:23] Nathan: Then yeah, why not?
[01:06:25] Jessica: Yeah. So we get 'em while they're hot, they're like joining again. So you've got that sort of, you know, uh, react, not reactivating 'cause they're already in there. Right. But they, you're buying another ticket and then we're telling them to bring somebody for free.
[01:06:37] Mm-hmm. So, and then you do the same thing. Now, I think that's the other piece I wanna say about this is that you've now created a, a repeatable framework, right? So every time they run a candle bar, every time you do crafting commerce, every time you run a dinner, you have an asset in your business now that is going to pay you back.
[01:06:55] Nathan: Well that's, yeah. That's this SOP of doing it over and over again. Yeah. This is a mistake that. It makes people feel better to hear this that I still make. Yeah. Where I'm like, cool, we did that thing. And it's like, is it documented? Right. Are the steps? Right. You know? Yeah. Like you were talking about having a great experience coming here to the show.
[01:07:13] Yeah. It
[01:07:13] Jessica: was awesome.
[01:07:14] Nathan: And the way the team interacted and all of that, but like the team changes over time. Mm-hmm. Like Lexi, who normally does a bunch of that for us, she's out on maturity leave.
[01:07:22] Jessica: Yes.
[01:07:23] Nathan: Right. And so is it like making the perfect guest experience, is it documented well enough?
[01:07:29] Jessica: Yep.
[01:07:29] Nathan: That if Lexi's out for three months Yes.
[01:07:31] It, you know, still happens seamlessly. And that's such an important thing that, you know, we're still learning it, you know, every time.
[01:07:38] Jessica: Yeah. And that's such an important piece because the way that you really drive these levers mm-hmm. Is you run it, you measure it, you take the best parts and you bring it forward.
[01:07:50] That is how you optimize.
[01:07:52] Nathan: Yep. I'm gonna write down measure.
[01:07:53] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:54] Nathan: Because that's something that people don't do enough of. Right. There's a lot of talk of. Referrals and we were saying like
[01:08:03] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[01:08:04] Nathan: Hoping for it versus engineering it. Right. And so he was like, no, we wanna engineer it. It's like, that's right.
[01:08:08] Okay. Well, in our candle bar example mm-hmm. We should be able to track how many people came back for repeat guest. Correct. How many buy one, get one, you know, or bring a friend, were sold. Yes. And you know, in the, um, in a climbing gym example Yep. Everyone has to sign, you know, if I bring my brother in for the first time Yeah.
[01:08:26] He's gotta sign a waiver and put his email address down and all that. Mm-hmm.
[01:08:28] Jessica: That's right.
[01:08:29] Nathan: And so they should know, hey, he came in as a referral from Nathan.
[01:08:32] Jessica: That's right.
[01:08:33] Nathan: How many of our referrals in a given month actually converted? That's right. And then, you know, what, what's our average time of conversion for a referral?
[01:08:41] And then they could, you know, maybe it's as simple as. Sending an email. That's right. And being like, Hey, did you know you have this benefit where you could bring in a friend for free?
[01:08:49] Jessica: Yes.
[01:08:50] Nathan: Right. Then all of a sudden,
[01:08:52] Jessica: yep.
[01:08:52] Nathan: You know it bring a friend Spike like crazy.
[01:08:55] Jessica: Yep.
[01:08:55] Nathan: All because you just increased awareness.
[01:08:57] But that measurement is so, so important.
[01:08:58] Jessica: Huge. Huge. And system like yours have data. Right. I'm gonna make another heart. I made a lot of hearts today, but like people think this is a dirty word, data. It's everything. Mm-hmm. Because not only are you like you are bringing in your brother, and then we're seeing if he converts, that's one stream, right?
[01:09:18] If you ran the dinner, that's another stream. Now the question is, which one bought in the referrals the best? Mm-hmm. The easiest, the cheapest. Then you iterate from there. So it's your best things forward. There is no way you could figure that out though. Unless you have the numbers.
[01:09:36] Nathan: Right.
[01:09:36] Jessica: You have to look at the information.
[01:09:38] I mean, you can guess. We're usually really bad at that. You know what I mean? We think something's doing better than it really is. The data is everything. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't have to be complicated, you just explain the whole funnel. Like I asked Nathan to bring someone, he bought them, did he convert? Yes or no?
[01:09:51] Like, how long did that take? Yes or no? Which one of the things did he buy? Oh, wait. Every time I asked someone to bring a plus one, they convert and they buy the highest package bone. It like, bingo. Here we go. This is awesome.
[01:10:04] Nathan: Oh man. Yeah, there's so much good stuff in here. So I wanna take a step back and just look at this.
[01:10:09] You know, the, the promise that we made coming down or coming into this is, you know, the four keys to unlock a hundred K in hidden profit. Yeah.
[01:10:16] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[01:10:16] Nathan: Usually what happens is we spend all of this time, you know, if there was a funnel, I guess I'll just draw it down here. Mm-hmm. Right. Of, you know, up at the top is, you know, our activation and then, you know, our conversion is somewhere in here.
[01:10:32] Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we're spending all of our time as business owners, like just going back and forth between these two.
[01:10:40] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[01:10:41] Nathan: Right. It's exhausting.
[01:10:43] Jessica: Correct. Right there.
[01:10:45] Nathan: You're like, yep, yep. You're
[01:10:46] Jessica: getting it. Been there, done that
[01:10:47] Nathan: lift that, you know,
[01:10:48] Jessica: every day. Um,
[01:10:49] Nathan: all of those things. And so really when you're talking about unlocking hidden profit, a little bit of it is in this top of funnel.
[01:10:58] It'll
[01:10:58] Jessica: help drive that. Yes. Right. The
[01:10:59] Nathan: hell yes. Offer, you know, that is really in this stage. Sure. But then the add-ons and bundles, were starting to move down the funnel, the reactivation, the referrals down the funnel so much more. And so you're like, this is why it's like unlocking the hidden profit that's in your business right now is because, hey, the rest of this funnel, just because you're ignoring it Yes.
[01:11:18] Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
[01:11:19] Jessica: Correct. Blue Ocean. Blue ocean. Right.
[01:11:23] Nathan: And so that aspect of it is so important. Mm-hmm. So I just wanna look at a couple other things and see what stood out to me. This as we kind of reflect, I think the, the referral, the SOP for it. Like what is your plus one SOP. Mm-hmm. And how do you bake that into the DNA of your business?
[01:11:40] Yes. There's probably a lot, actually, this gonna be a great, great brainstorm with chat GPT of like, okay, how could I bring, bring a friend element into my digital business, into my consulting business? Mm-hmm. All of that. Mm-hmm. And then the other things, capture and contact info. Mm-hmm. That's a huge one.
[01:11:58] Jessica: Yeah.
[01:11:59] Nathan: So many people mess that up.
[01:12:00] Jessica: Ugh.
[01:12:01] Nathan: Every author who sells on Amazon gets that one wrong,
[01:12:06] Jessica: I'm sure. Right.
[01:12:06] Nathan: Because you can't, you don't get in the sales, you have to collect it in the book.
[01:12:09] Jessica: Yeah.
[01:12:09] Nathan: Which means you need to plan for it like nine months before launch.
[01:12:12] Jessica: Yeah.
[01:12:13] Nathan: You know, this idea of giving an identity mm-hmm.
[01:12:15] To an offer.
[01:12:17] Jessica: Mm-hmm.
[01:12:18] Nathan: Sometimes you'll see this in packages where it's like, hobbyist professional. Yes. You know? Right. And you're like, well. I sure like $39 as price, but I'm not a hobbyist.
[01:12:28] Jessica: I'm not a hobbyist. I want the professional one. Yes,
[01:12:31] Nathan: right. Professional. Like me buying this. Right.
[01:12:33] Jessica: Even like bronze, silver, gold, like I am gold.
[01:12:36] You know?
[01:12:36] Nathan: Obviously
[01:12:37] Jessica: I'm gold. Can't you tell? Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.
[01:12:41] Nathan: And then I think another thing to just pay attention to in this, right? As, as we're talking about this funnel and moving from paint, really focusing on the top part of it to moving down the funnel. Mm-hmm. Then really this idea of increasing average order value.
[01:12:53] Yep. And measuring, yes. Average order value and the data as you called out, I think are huge things.
[01:12:59] Jessica: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And doing it in that vein of leaning in to what lights you up. Mm-hmm. Like if you love writing the di, you know the dinners do that. If that's your plus one thing, you know? Mm-hmm. If you like giving people some sort of an experience and that's what you're selling, great.
[01:13:14] Yeah. You know, like look where the money is, look what lights you up, marry them together, um, and uncover it in your business. Yeah. It will always pay you back in dividends of driving. All the front, top of funnel things too, but a warm lead, a current customer, the people on your email list, those people are the hottest and easiest to convert.
[01:13:35] Nathan: Yep.
[01:13:35] Jessica: They're just waiting for you.
[01:13:36] Nathan: I love that. And the, then, even as you think about this as somebody categories to keep coming back to mm-hmm. Periodically you could do one a month or like, Hey, all year long I'm going to, you know, for the first, for, you know, I'm gonna work on my offer and then add-ons and bundles in February and then reactivation in March and you know, on from there.
[01:13:55] Mm-hmm. And then once I've got my referrals dialed in, well I have all of these people coming in as new referrals who are all encountering my offer. Yep. So in May, how do I make the offer better? Yes. And keep coming back to this and just keep systematically working down the process.
[01:14:09] Jessica: Yes. And if your business is somewhat cyclical, like maybe there's a lot of KI customers that join in January,
[01:14:14] Nathan: right?
[01:14:14] Jessica: It's like you take the framework. You just replay it. Mm-hmm. This is like so important when it comes to predictability and stable income. Like every time I run this funnel or my client runs this funnel, they make $30,000 it, and I'm, and this happens, I've done this with clients with even an event where they're selling a product on the backend, and after every event there are eight sales.
[01:14:38] I'm like, this is the event. Event framework.
[01:14:41] Nathan: Right.
[01:14:41] Jessica: So she knows every time she wants to make $30,000, she just runs another event. Mm-hmm. And we could plan them out. You're gonna do the Christmas one, you're gonna do the, you know, and she knows exactly how that's gonna look. Everyone can do that. They could do it in a digital business too.
[01:14:54] Yeah.
[01:14:55] Nathan: Well thank you for coming on the show. Of course. Thank you. And teaching all this has been a masterclass. Yeah. Where should people go if they wanna follow you, learn more about what you do and all of that?
[01:15:03] Jessica: So I'm on all the interwebs as Jessica Digi Miller, um, but I put something special together for you and your audience where you can go in and look at these four levers for your business right now.
[01:15:13] I want you to get off the podcast and go and uncover this because it is sitting right there. So you can go to Jessica Miller coaching.com/nathan. Okay. And there is a worksheet there for you that literally outlines this, and you can start uncovering this hidden money immediately.
[01:15:29] Nathan: That's a pretty compelling offer as far as like you bring the energy this matters and you're like, look, I made the thing.
[01:15:35] Jessica Miller coaching.com/nathan. Yep. Where now I'll walk you through it and give you the worksheet where you can implement this, implement this yourself.
[01:15:42] Jessica: No excuses. Amazing. Let's go.
[01:15:44] Nathan: Thanks for coming on.
[01:15:45] Jessica: Thanks for having me.
[01:15:46] Nathan: If you enjoyed this episode, go to YouTube and search the Nathan Berry Show.
[01:15:51] Then hit subscribe and make sure to like the video and drop a comment. I'd love to hear what some of your favorite parts of the video were and also just who else do you think we should have on the show. Thank you so much for listening.