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Caleb, Daila, and Jonathan chat about how we built a hiring app that we hope to productize. We're also going to eat our own dog food and use it for some hiring that we anticipate having to do.
The Products: Raisonne.gallery, OpenHouse.social
- (00:00) - 021 - We Built a Hiring App
- (00:35) - Introduction
- (02:13) - Taxes
- (03:22) - Daila Does Her Homework
- (04:39) - Daila Built the Hiring App
- (11:25) - Scratching Our Own Dog Food
- (18:05) - Outro
The Products: Raisonne.gallery, OpenHouse.social
Newsletter: factory.twostoryrobot.com
Twitter: @twostoryrobot
Instagram: @therobotfactorypod
Follow Jonathan: @thejonotron
Follow Caleb: @calebissharp
Creators & Guests
What is The Robot Factory?
Follow along as we attempt to build and sell a SaaS company. A build in public behind the scenes journey of a small software agency, Two Story Robot, trying something new.
Daila: Gross.
Caleb: You're spitting all over yours too.
Daila: I only use mine for the podcast.
Caleb: Well,
Jonathan: it's all you do is speak.
When you use it, you speak into it.
It's only getting spit on it.
Caleb: have you, yeah.
Have you seen those, the like videos
where they have somebody talking
against like a sheet and they have like
a special camera and you can just see
all the spit just flying outta their
Jonathan: Ugh,
Daila: That's really not a
video that I would look for or
click on if I saw it come up.
Caleb: let's just say there's a
reason to wear masks, even if.
Hacking all over the place cuz
just like normal stuff, just
like just spewing out liquid.
Daila: Okay, here we go.
I'll do it.
Jonathan: Do it,
Daila: Welcome back to the Robot Factory.
I'm Daila Dufford and I'm
looking at my co-hosts.
Caleb: Well,
Jonathan: Okay.
I'm
Daila: Did I say it wrong?
Jonathan: no.
Well,
Daila: What should I
Caleb: where we build thing, a
Daila: Oh, I forgot.
Do
Caleb: where we
sell a podcast, where we
build and sell things.
Daila: or Caleb, you intro it and
then I'll learn for next week.
Caleb: Welcome to the Robot
Factory, A pod No welcome.
Yes, a podcast where we talk about
building things and selling them, but
we haven't sold anything yet, and I
feel like half the time we don't even
talk about building things, so I don't
think that intro actually works anymore.
Daila: that's why I made it abbreviated.
Jonathan: And then you're, you
gotta, you gotta finish Caleb, like,
you, you make this so hard to edit.
God.
Caleb: I'm one of your coho.
Well, just don't edit it.
No one likes over edited things anyway.
There's a reason people like, you
know, like, like mock commentaries.
No, that's not the right, like,
Jonathan: See, here we go again.
I gotta clip all this, all
Caleb: No, don't, don't cut it.
Don't cut it.
Just don't cut anything.
This is the funniest part.
No one wants to hear about
like, I don't know, taxes or
whatever we're gonna talk about.
Jonathan: Okay,
Caleb: I'm one of your hosts, Caleb Sharp.
I'm one of your hosts, Caleb Sharp.
My other hosts are also present
Daila: I'm Daila Duford again.
Jonathan: Oh my goodness.
Uh, and I'm Jonathan Bowers.
I'm in charge of this whole show.
My goodness.
Caleb: yeah, control.
Control your co-host.
Daila: Well, I was gonna talk about
taxes, Caleb, but no, I'm not.
Jonathan: I also wanted to
talk about taxes, but you
railed against it's tax season.
Like it's what we're supposed to be
Caleb: I'm not sure why I said that, cuz
I actually want some advice on taxes.
Daila: you, you sent me a
message about taxes yesterday.
So you're the one who
wants to talk about taxes
Caleb: specifically, I want less money
so I don't have to pay as many taxes.
Daila: So I will take a cut of
Caleb's wages from here on out.
I will take that bullet.
Caleb: Thank you.
Jonathan: You know that's a f
that's an interest free loan
you're giving the government.
Caleb: Yeah.
Wait.
Yeah.
No,
Jonathan: Yes.
Caleb: I.
Yes, but the government has other things.
It does.
Jonathan: I know, but would you rather
still owe the same amount of money and
keep it in your savings account and earn
even a little bit of interest on it?
Caleb: no, no, no, because
Jonathan: That requires
Caleb: Cuz I cannot
build roads in real life.
Jonathan: No, I know, I know, I know it.
I know you can't, but the money
is yours or regardless, so.
Caleb: money is ours.
That's a myth.
The government wants
Jonathan: Oh my goodness.
Daila: And we digress.
Okay.
I did build something that we could talk
Jonathan: I would love to talk
about the thing that you built that
we might even try to sell a thing.
Ah,
Caleb: Hey, that's,
that's the
Jonathan: boom, boom, boom.
Daila: boom.
I know, right?
Like we just, we had to find our way.
It's a path.
Um,
Jonathan: though, right?
You're not
Daila: no, it's not about taxes.
That's
Jonathan: It ki although it
is, it is it, it kind of,
Daila: No, this is a different thing.
Jonathan: oh, okay.
Daila: are you talking?
Oh, anyways, the so tack the video game.
So just I'd like to check off on that.
I did do my homework and I had
my first conversation, which led
to an email address for the next
person I'm gonna have a conversation
Jonathan: yes.
Daila: So this, this little,
little game is rollin'.
Jonathan: Nice.
tax game.
Daila: I'm excited the tax game and the
person I talked to loved the idea of it.
They have children, um, similar
age to mine and they're like,
boom, yeah, we need, we need this.
And then they turned to their child
and said, I will force you to play it.
So
Jonathan: Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daila: anyways, first conversation.
I did my homework.
Pombo,
Jonathan: Nice.
And okay, so the homework was
to have a conversation right?
Daila: That was my homework.
Yes.
Have a conversation.
I did.
And it's led to connecting
to the next person.
Jonathan: Perfect.
That's how conversations work.
You just like have them
and they lead places.
Daila: yep.
So I will continue down that, but last
episode we talked about your hiring app
and could that be turned into a product?
So on Friday I spent a couple hours
building your, your hiring app in Bubble.
It's not pretty, but dang.
It works.
Um, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna just finish
like the, the MVP really down and dirty,
ugly version on Friday and show it to you.
When you come to town.
Jonathan: I'll be there on Friday
Daila: You'll be there.
So, and then we're gonna, we're
gonna use it for our hiring process,
hopefully, and then sell it or
get people to subscribe to it,
Jonathan: Yeah, I think
there's a number of ways.
We were talking about this
earlier, Caleb, um, remind.
For those of you who are just tuning in,
Daila: Welcome to the Robot Factory.
Jonathan: the Robot Factory.
Caleb: listening to the Robot Factory.
Jonathan: not, not like just tuning
in now, but like this is the first
episode they've ever l um, what was
the, how did we describe the app?
It was, or the, not the
app, but the process
Daila: Um, so our hiring
process I think is fantastic.
Our company is extremely, I
have to say that because I'm
on this podcast with my boss.
the,
Jonathan: I, I, I absolve you
from from being fired If you
tell, if you say otherwise.
Daila: sweet.
It's a horrible
Jonathan: give us your honest, oh,
Daila: Um, no, it's just kidding.
It's wonderful.
I really like our hiring process.
So our, our company is
very values oriented.
Um, our values are fantastic, but
when we're looking for new team
members, that is a big part of
it, finding people who will mesh.
So what Jonny B here did was
created Jonny B I've called
him Jonny B since we were kids.
I'm the only one who can call him Jonny B.
Um, And so what we, we do is we'll
ask prospective candidates, um, to
answer three questions that are very
values based according to our values.
They answer these questions
and then we assess them with
no, like attached information.
We don't look at their names, where
they're from, um, anything like that.
Just their answers and.
Everybody on our team randomly gets
assigned some questions and then
they rate them based on, on how they
feel they match with our values.
These assessments then get averaged.
Um, I think every question
gets three ratings.
Jonathan: Uh, yeah.
Three.
That's just an arbitrary number, but
Daila: Yeah.
Something like
Jonathan: three people
assess every response.
Yeah.
So that it's not like everybody's
assessing every response.
Cause that's a lot.
Daila: That's a lot.
And that, that was when, yeah, I think
this process has kind of evolved cuz
it was usually one person doing it all.
Um, and we brought the whole team on.
Um, and then it averages it out
and then we can see the ones that,
that we feel fit the best and
move on in the hiring process.
So anyways, that's what what we're
building, what Jonathan already built
in Coda and I'm building in bubble.
Jonathan: Mm-hmm.
How long did it take you to build?
Daila: It took me about three hours
and I, I've built, like I did spend too
much time on, on the fun parts that are
like the pretty little opening page.
Jonathan: you just said it was ugly.
Daila: Well, just one page is
pretty cuz I found a nice picture.
And then the actual
functioning parts of it aren't.
Um, so I, I've set up now like two sides.
One side is a company side where any
company could come in, they can list
their job or put a description, write
the three questions or more that they
want answered, and then a candidate
can sign in, well they can see a job
description, then they can click apply.
They have to create an account and
then they answer these questions.
And then now I'm at the part, I'm halfway
through the randomly assigning and rating.
I'm more than halfway through.
I'm at like 85%.
Jonathan: so that's more, more evolved
than I imagined it to be because the tool
that I built in Coda works only for us.
It can't like, it, it, it, I would have
to copy and paste it if somebody, if
some other company wanted to use it.
But you've built it from the
beginning to be something that,
Daila: Oh yeah, I want it to be a product.
Jonathan: Ah,
Daila: So I started it as a product
that, and, and because when I build my,
my data structure, I like to try and
consider as close to the end goal as
possible so I don't have to mess around
with all the data structure later.
So I was like, well, if multiple
companies were using this, how
would I build it anyways, it was.
Jonathan: That's sweet.
Daila: Yeah, so I'm, I'm excited.
So I'm going to, uh, I'm gonna
finish the very v mvp and then I'm
gonna get Steve to make it pretty.
Um,
and then we're gonna show it to you.
Well, pretty ish, like
I'm gonna make him do it
Jonathan: pretty, it only
needs to be pretty for the,
I don't like saying the word
Daila: Sorry.
It needs to be, Um,
visually, it, it just, okay.
It needs to make more sense than
it does now, the way it looks.
Jonathan: Okay.
Daila: r
it polished just a little polished.
Like right now, it's like the roughest
boulder you've ever seen in your life.
We just need to take some of those
Caleb: just like a car wash.
Not like any waxing or buffing,
but like gotta get the dirt.
Jonathan: Get the dirt off.
Daila: spray the grime off of it, um,
which I think Steve could do very quickly.
Jonathan: Okay.
Okay.
Daila: And then boom, we'll use it
for our, our next hiring process.
Jonathan: Nice.
Daila: So I'm excited.
Jonathan: That's exciting.
Daila: So I like when you give me homework
because it actually makes me do it.
Jonathan: Oh.
Oh, okay.
Daila: So we go.
I,
was a very good student in school.
Caleb: I feel like you've been giving
yourself the homework cuz I've never
gotten homework and I think it's just cuz
I haven't assigned myself the homework.
Daila: Teachers pet right
here.
It works though.
I think I feel the pressure of like,
I know Caleb's mom is listening and
if I don't do the homework, Caleb's
mom will be disappointed with me.
Caleb: Maybe we should hire my mom.
Daila: Just as like
Caleb: Do you know
Jonathan: team mom,
Daila: the mom
Jonathan: do your homework?
Caleb: actually,
Jonathan: gotta do your
homework before you can have
Caleb: Let's not do that.
No, nevermind.
Nevermind.
No, no, no, no.
Daila: Yeah.
Uh,
Jonathan: just put her
in charge of you, Caleb.
She can be your manager
Caleb: I think I should be the manager.
Jonathan: of your mom.
Caleb: I think that's the
ultimate goal for any parent
Daila: I don't know.
Caleb: work for your child.
Jonathan: my goodness.
Okay.
We got off topic.
Daila: but now we've got a product
to talk about on the robot factory
Jonathan: Like one of the many
products that we've started and haven't
done anything
Daila: But this one we're gonna follow.
We're gonna follow because
Jonathan: we say that
about Well, that's true.
Yeah.
So I do like, I do like
itches, uh, that we scratch.
Wait, that, that, that sounded wrong.
I do like scratching our own
itches or eating our own dog food.
One of the two.
Um,
cuz like
Caleb: problems
Jonathan: yeah, solving your own problems,
they're just a little bit easier.
Right.
Cuz we, like, we all use it.
I mean, we're not art gallery people,
we're not realtors, we're not, um,
Caleb: Yeah.
At least some use will come out of it,
even if it's just for this hiring process.
That's better
Jonathan: or even the next one cuz even,
even my tool doesn't work very well.
Job to job.
Like it's re it's really only works
for one role and one position.
Like we gotta, like, I, it's
not hard, I just copy it and
paste it into a new document.
But, um, yeah, it's an evolution,
which is, which is cool.
How you described it, I haven't seen
it, but what you just described.
So the one, the one piece of feedback I
might give is I don't love the idea that
a candidate has to create an account.
Daila: which they wouldn't.
Have to, well, they kind of do just to,
no, they don't have to create an account.
That's a good point.
That way they could just see what
they applied for and check on
statuses and stuff like grand scheme.
But
Jonathan: Is it the reason to do that?
And I think, I think we would see this
a lot in certain kinds of, certain
kinds of applications where you create
an account because that's easy to
do, to eat, easy to manage the data.
Um, but I, I don't think that
that's easier for the user.
I think that's easier for us.
To do it that way, would it be either
because it's just easier to think about
and, um, we are used to doing that, or,
um, it's actually easier to implement
by implementing a user account system.
Would it be better though, if
it was just something that they,
we could email them, right?
Like email them a magic link.
Daila: Oh yeah.
Invite them.
Jonathan: Yeah, like if, if they.
To, to, to fill out the questions or fill
out the things or to apply to something.
They don't have to, they don't
have to sign up for anything, but
we, they have to give their email
address cuz we have to have some
way of getting in touch with them.
So as long as their email address is
associated, um, they could always,
uh, tell us what their email address
is and then we send them a link
that says, here's your information.
Daila: Yep.
Jonathan: Um, I like that better than
having to create an account and password
cuz that feels like, I don't know.
That feels.
Slightly overreaching, even though
it's not really like, it's not
any extra information that they'd
have to give us, but it just
perceptually feels less involved.
Daila: yeah, yeah.
No.
Easy to do.
I can, I can do that.
Feedback received.
Thank you.
Yeah, no, that's, I don't know how
you answer to that, but, uh, yeah,
no, that I, that is a very good point.
Jonathan: So who would
we talk to about this?
Like, sorry.
Um, who as potential customers
might we talk to about this?
Daila: I don't know other tech
companies, any company that hires people.
Jonathan: Everybody's
laying people off, so,
Daila: Yeah.
Well, tech companies, you're right, you're
Jonathan: yeah, I
Daila: so non-tech companies,
Jonathan: Yeah, maybe actually
there's, there's a, um, I've
used in the past a HR consultant.
I think she calls herself, um, just
for some HR related, uh, issues.
And she, she actually has a podcast,
Daila: oh,
Jonathan: maybe I'll show it to her
and see, see what she thinks about it.
Um, just as a e even just a gut check.
Like, does this make sense?
Are we, you know, what
do you think about this?
Um,
Daila: That's a good point.
I, I have a friend who's an HR
consultant too, now that you say
Jonathan: Oh really?
Daila: I don't think
she has a podcast, but
Jonathan: No, it, it doesn't,
they don't need to have a podcast,
but it would be, it would be
kind of fun to go on a podcast.
And I know her podcast is
about HR related stuff.
what does your, your friend
do as an HR consultant?
Daila: Uh, well, she has
her own like HR consulting.
Company.
And so, so people hire her to basically
find them talent or to give advice when,
I dunno, people changes need to be made.
Um, she'll write up, yeah.
Job descriptions and then just
try and find people for it.
So this would, yeah,
Jonathan: Huh?
Like as a recruiter?
Daila: it, it's like a,
she's like a recruiter.
Everything with HR kind of stuff.
Jonathan: Okay.
Daila: She's then, you don't
have to have an HR department.
Jonathan: yeah.
Well, let's, uh, yeah, let's
show this to, let's show this.
Well, let's let, show me on Friday and
then, and then, yeah, let's, let's
see if you can get in front of your
friend, your HR consultant friend.
I'll do the same with
the person that I know.
Um, yeah.
See where that goes.
Is that homework we think we could
do before next time we record?
Daila: Let's try it.
Let's see how Friday goes with,
Jonathan: Oh, okay.
So first bit of Hallmark is,
let's go look at it together
Daila: Let's make sure it is,
Jonathan: um, cuz I do want to use it.
I do, we need, do, need
to start up some hiring,
Daila: What do you think, Caleb?
I feel like I keep
talking over poor Caleb.
So
what does your heart say
Jonathan: How do you think your mom
would, uh, if we ran her through
the, through this process, would you
hire, do you think she'd do well and
you'd end up hiring her, or would she
Caleb: Well, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know how she would
answer the questions.
I can't, I can't make that call, but
probably super well, and she'd get hired
Jonathan: Yeah, she probably would.
Yeah.
Daila: I think so too.
Jonathan: How do you
feel about this, Caleb?
Caleb: I think it's a good
idea, but I worry that it'll
actually potentially take.
Longer, too hire if we don't
just do the coda one right now.
Jonathan: yes.
Although the code of one
isn't, isn't ready either.
Caleb: Oh
well.
Jonathan: it's pretty close.
Daila: Do not make one finished.
But
yeah,
I mean, we can definitely
use the coda one and
Jonathan: there, there is some
follow up like, like, It's not just
these questions that we ask that
we want answers to, that we assess.
We then filter those and some
number of them get invited.
To send a resume and a cover letter, so
there's a next step to this, and then we
review those and filter again, and then
there's an invitation to an interview.
And, um, so I don't know if
that's something we want to
build into this little tool.
Um,
Daila: Why not?
Jonathan: yeah, I don't know.
That's like, that's something that I
haven't built into the Coda thing yet that
I would, that was sort of the next steps.
Um, but then I got super busy with some
other things and didn't quite finish.
Uh, but yeah, we'll talk about that on
Friday and see, see what, what we can
build into this to at least use for us.
Daila: Glad we talked about a product.
Boom.
Jonathan: we did product talk about
product and we tied it to taxes.
And Caleb's mom, so good.
Caleb: Yes.
Jonathan: Well, that's been The Robot
Factory, a podcast where we talk about
taxes, products, and ideally, Caleb's mom,
Caleb: Ideally, in an ideal world,
that's all the podcasts would be about.
Jonathan: Yep.
Yeah.
I've been your host, Jonathan Bowers.
Caleb: I've been your
other host, Caleb Sharp.
Daila: and I'm Daila
Caleb: See you next time.