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إيه هو شكل العلاقة الواعية؟ في الحلقة الأولى من "إيه العلاقة"، منت وعمر سمره هيكلمونا عن الفروق الدقيقة لبناء علاقة صحية وازاي نخليها تنجح. هيكشف لينا الحوار الصادق ده ازاي نقدر نحتضن تجاربنا الفردية وازاي نعيش في إطار الالتزام على المدى الطويل والبحث عن هدف أسمى. وفي الحلقة دي، هيشاركونا رحلتهم إلي بنوا فيها أساس حياتهم الزوجية.
اشتركوا في قنوات وومينا على منصات البودكاست المفضلة ليكم وعلى اليوتيوب عشان تشوفوا الحلقات كلها كاملة. وهنستنى تقييمكم وارائكم ومتنسوش تشاركوا الحلقات مع أصحابك!
What does a conscious relationship look like? Mint and Omar Samra explore the nuances of building a healthy relationship and what it takes to make it work.
From accountability to finding a higher purpose, this honest conversation unpacks how we can honor our individual experiences and how we want to live within a long-term commitment.
Listen and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platforms and don’t forget to rate, review and share with your friends. You can also watch the full episodes on Womena’s YouTube!
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What is إيه العلاقة?
أهلًا بيكم في أحدث بودكاست من وومينا بعنوان "إيه العلاقة"، هيقدمه لينا منت وعمر سمره إللى هيكلمونا عن العلاقات من زاوية ممكن تغير نظرتنا تجاه شريك الحياة في مجتمعنا. هيتكلموا عن أساسيات العلاقة الصحية بناءً على تجربتهم الخاصة والمراحل إللى مروا بيها في العلاقة من المواعدة إلى الصداقة إلى المواعدة مرة ثانية وأخيرًا الزواج وترابط الأسرتين وتفاصيل تانية كتير.
في الموسم الأول، هنتكلم في كل ما يخص العلاقات من موضوعات شائكة، منها القيم المادية والحزن والصحة النفسية والحميمية و الخيانة و الحدود الشخصية والحرية.
منت أخصائية علم الجنس الجسدي ورائدة في مجال اللياقة البدنية في مصر ومؤسسة أول مدرسة للفنون الجوية في مصر PoleFit.
أما عمر، فهو مغامر ورائد أعمال وأب ومتحدث، وهو أول مصري يصل إلى قمة إفريست والقمم السبع، ووصل كمان بالتزلج إلى القطبين الشمالي والجنوبي.
اشترك في قنوات وومينا على منصات البودكاست المفضلة عندك وعلى اليوتيوب عشان تشوف الفيدوهات كاملة، وهيبدأ عرض الحلقات كل اسبوع بدءًا من 31 يوليو.
Welcome to إيه العلاقة , Womena’s newest podcast where hosts Mint and Omar Samra are going to talk about relationships in a way that changes how we think of partnerships in our society.
Mint and Omar Samra will explore the building blocks of healthy relationships from their own experience in dating, being friends, dating again, getting married, blending families, and so much more. In Season 1, we’re diving into all the difficult conversations: how to navigate money values, grief, mental health, intimacy, infidelity, boundaries and freedom within relationships.
Mint is a somatic sexologist and pioneer in Egypt’s fitness industry as the founder of PoleFit, the country’s first aerial arts school. Omar is an adventurer, entrepreneur, father and speaker. He is the first Egyptian to climb Mount Everest, the 7 Summits and ski to both the Geographic South and North Pole.
Subscribe to Womena’s channels on your favorite podcast platforms and on YouTube to see the full videos! Episodes drop weekly starting July 31.
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Follow Omar Samra @omarsamra
I always tell Omar that if I hadn't
done this course before I met you,
many things would probably…
Let's agree that we
wouldn't have been together.
We definitely wouldn't
have been together. For sure!
[Intro] [Music]
[What's the Story?]
Welcome everybody!
Today is Episode 1.
My name is Mint, and we
have Omar with us today.
He is my husband.
We will talk about conscious relationships.
So, Omar, tell me…
This is the first time you say 'my husband.'
You sometimes get confused
and refer to me as 'my boyfriend.'
Or you tell me 'let's not use
the words husband and wife.'
Shhh
Today, we would like to talk
about conscious relationships
- a term we couldn't find
an Arabic equivalent to.
I think the most accurate Arabic translation
to it was too odd for us in our society
where we do not talk about such issues,
so we are happy to talk about conscious
relationships and explain such concept.
In simple words, conscious
relationships mean that
if I am involved in a
relationship with someone,
I am responsible for my own wellbeing.
I tried to find an equivalent to
wellbeing in Arabic but couldn't find any
because it comprises several
different issues, including:
mental health, my happiness,
more than one issue.
To be in a conscious relationship is to
be responsible for my own happiness.
The person I am with will
be additional support for me.
Him being in my life would
ease my life a little bit.
Give me more moments of joy or intimacy.
However, this person is not the
source of happiness or wellbeing for me.
This is what conscious
relationships simply means.
To look at its anatomy,
I'd like to paint a picture.
Imagine it with me while listening to me.
Imagine that each person is a circle.
Between each circle and
the other, there is a battery.
When there is a battery between
two people in a relationship,
what happens is I charge from my
partner, and my partner charges from me.
What does that mean?
It means, they are waiting
for me to make them happy.
There's a battery in between,
from which both of us charge.
In this scenario, only one person
is happy while the other is not.
Or the second person is
happy while the first is not.
Or both of them got bored, tired and fed-up.
And neither of them is happy but tired.
In a conscious relationship, both people charge
from something that we
metaphorically call "the garden."
What does the Garden represent?
The Garden represents all of the things
that I tell people that they were doing
before getting in a
relationship or getting married,
such as seeing my friends,
working out, having some time alone,
meditating, going for a walk, reading a book…
any hobby or anything I do just for myself.
That I do for no other purpose
than this thing makes me feel better.
Usually when people get into a
relationship, they forget all of these things;
which is ok for a little while, for the
first month or two of a new relationship.
But, not forever.
It's ok not to see my
friends and see someone new
that I am dating because I am
excited about the relationship.
But on the long term, it doesn't
work because from our experience,
the person who stops visiting their Garden,
the place that gives them a lot and
gives them the feeling of wellbeing,
will begin to expect from their
partner to compensate them
and make them feel happy.
Another thing I think is important is the
third element in a conscious relationship,
which is that each party of the
relationship has a purpose in their life.
And the partner supports or
creates for them the environment
where they have the
space to realize their dream.
I also think that most of the relationships
we see in our society are not like that.
Yup
Would you like to tell us about the
majority of the relationships you see?
Often a woman would come to me with
a higher purpose of marrying someone.
So when I ask her what she does for a living,
she says she is 'Name's
wife'. What's your profession?
'I take care of the house and the kids.'
This leads to major frustration because
she sees her husband as the higher purpose,
the same with motherhood
and with her status as a wife.
Now she's expecting things from her family,
for her kids to get married for
her, to score A grades in school,
to give her gifts, to get her out.
She expects so much from them and
has the feeling that she sacrificed her life
but people do not appreciate such thing.
However, I'd like to take
this chance to say that
if she wants her purpose in life to
be a mother and raise her children…
if that is really what she wants,
then this could be something that
charges her if I may use your terminology.
But if that is not the
case and if she is doing it
out of certain pressures she has been through,
and she hasn't had the opportunity
or space to think of what she wants.
If it is something projected on her,
then this is where the problem begins.
Her man could be fulfilling his
purpose in life while she cannot do it,
then a dilemma will be created.
Sometimes it's both of them.
Sometimes a man feels
that he is offering blood,
sweat and tears to provide for his household
although he doesn't like his work,
but he feels that this is his destiny.
At the same time, she doesn't
want to do what she does,
which would create a toxic relationship.
What we are trying to say is that it
is not a one-size-fits-all type of thing,
but the idea that a person
works on himself/herself
is something a person will
do for the rest of his/her life.
But I must arrive at a point
where I am at peace with myself,
and know the issues that I need to work on,
and know my character defects
that when they are manifested,
I lose my temper and my mind and
exhibit the negative version of myself.
I must learn all such things very
well to be able to manage them
as much as I can and not
project them onto the relationship.
A person must be able to
discuss with their life partner
that they have a certain character issue
and that they are working on improving it.
A partner must discuss this very clearly.
For example, he could be a
hothead, or lacking in self-expression,
so may say something they
don't mean or something hurtful.
But if they are able to talk about it honestly
and lay it before their partner,
compassion and kindness can evolve,
which are an important element
in a conscious relationship.
Let's do something, Omar.
I think that I arrived where I am today
and that you arrived where you are as well,
but through a different route.
I wanted a conscious relationship
in a way different than yours.
Yeah, yeah.
Can we tell our audience about this for a bit?
You go ahead…
To me, I arrived at conscious relationships
through a course that I did online.
A course I did right before I met Omar.
This course changed my life.
It was called Heal Your Relationships,
and was Canada-based online course.
It taught me a lot about myself, how
some things were easy for me to do,
while other things more difficult.
Why was it easy for me to
say 'yes', to help someone else,
but why was it difficult to say
'no,' or to ask someone else for help.
Why did I want a person to
love me without telling him
how to love me or express his love.
I just wanted him to read my
thoughts without any prompts from me.
This is how I arrived at
it, through this course.
I always tell Omar that I was certain that
if I hadn't done that course before we met,
there would definitely
have been some issues that…
Let's agree that we
wouldn't have been together…
Definitely, we wouldn't
have been together, for sure.
What I learned from that course was that,
I am in a relationship with a
pattern first and then a person.
What I liked from the course is that
it provided me with a map of myself.
When Omar and I got into the relationship,
I told Omar that I was working
on myself on this and that.
I worked on the idea
that even if I don't see you
and if you don't give me
attention for the whole day,
I must know that it is not
because you don't love me.
I try not to take validation from you
- but it is something I am still working on,
so please take it one step at a time with me.
If something bothered me, I used
to act cool and not annoyed by it.
But the next day, I slap
back at a different issue
because I used to feel too proud to
tell someone that they hurt my feelings.
That was too difficult for me to do…
We met when I had just completed the
course, and I was working on this issue.
I told you -in the first
month of our relationship -
that if you find me in a bad mood
or a different vibe or a bit cold,
or non-responsive, or sitting in a corner,
you'd ask me what's wrong, I'd
tell you nothing, like everyone else.
I told you not to leave me alone,
but to sit with me and force me
to tell you what was bothering me.
Now, it's more natural for me and
it's easier, but it was a struggle at first.
I arrived to this through the course.
You didn't take any courses, how did
you arrive at this conscious relationship?
I don't know how I arrived at it.
In my life, I arrive at things
and don't know how I did that.
Sometimes I fumble with a broken
device and then it starts to work.
I think this is connected with nature.
I am blessed that I had
the opportunity to travel
and see the world and
spend a lot of time in nature.
Usually nature solo trips,
which bring out clarity of mind.
I have a set of questions that I ask
myself, and then come up with solutions.
Sometimes, I'd have certain
challenges to my personality or life
and would take them with
me to where I was going.
I go to nature to such divine regions.
Such complexities melt away
and I begin to see life more clearly.
I've worked on myself a lot,
because this is my second marriage.
I worked on myself a lot
before marrying my first wife.
My life with Marwa was non-conventional.
Before I met her, I wouldn't have never
thought of marrying or being in a relationship.
My mother threw in the towel
and the whole family just came
to terms that I would never marry.
My life was to myself and I always lived alone.
I was working on my goals, be them
work, study my mountains, my adventures.
I had several relationships,
but none of them was long-term.
Some of them were serious, but
nothing continued for a long period of time.
Marwa suddenly entered my
life and changed everything.
You can say that she forced me to face myself.
And it felt as if I was looking in the mirror
and that it wasn't just
that I wanted to be alone
and I wanted to travel and I wanted to
be by myself, and I wanted to be free…
But I had a problem in committing to someone.
I always was afraid of relationships,
but my love for her and my attraction to
her were very powerful and very sudden.
It was very difficult to explain and
it broke all those barriers suddenly.
I realized that I was getting
into a relationship quickly.
I quickly proposed to her
and I quickly married her.
Everything was fast-paced.
As if something in me,
something in us knew that
we were going to be together for a short time.
But I moved from a place
where I was extremely scared,
to a place where I let go
of everything that I feared.
I surrendered everything to life completely.
For two years or so, I lived
the best years of my life,
and then suddenly she was
taken away from me, by death.
That was very difficult, so it
broke my relationship with life.
I became someone who doesn't
trust others who doesn't trust himself.
How could I take such a
step after all these difficulties?
To find this person and to surrender myself,
and then this person is taken away from
me very quickly and without any warning.
So this created what's
known as fear of abandonment.
I'm afraid of being left by myself.
I wasn't even aware of this.
Out of my non-awareness, I entered into
this loophole of a pattern for so many years.
I spent a long period;
months maybe years in grief.
I was unable to meet someone else
to be in a relation with someone else
or be close to someone else.
And when I would start a relationship,
I began those feelings of fear of abandonment.
I was afraid that something
would be taken away from me
or that I would be left by myself.
I know I'm looking for love.
I'm looking for intimacy, I'm
looking for warm emotions.
I realized that I was looking
into receiving all those things,
all those emotions from someone else.
Inside me, I was still broken and
hurting, and I didn't notice this.
And I was so hasty to get into another
relationship and meet other women,
as a form of escape from the pain inside me.
I used this as a way of healing
but at the end of the day,
it would never have pushed me forward or
made me arrive to where I wanted to arrive.
I think this is a very common
pattern that a lot of people go through.
So the idea of a conscious
relationship to someone like me,
someone who has been through;
a difficult situation such as losing someone,
is to be aware and acknowledge
the phase where I am,
and give myself the time and space to heal.
This doesn't mean that if someone
wants to be in a relationship
has to go through all
these barriers and challenges
and overcome them 100% before
getting into this new relationship.
Sometimes those fears
are not logical or rational.
So let's say that this kind of contract
between me and life has been terminated.
The contract stated that I'd live myself
then meet someone whom I fall in love with,
then spend our lives with each other.
The idea that suddenly this
person has been taken away for me
without any warning meant that there's
some sort of violation of the contract.
Now I don't want to get
into another relationship.
On one hand, I want to get into a relationship
because I want to fall in love again.
On the other hand, a part of me rejected it.
So that was a huge conflict.
A major part for my healing came from
nature as I said before among other methods.
That's why I'm saying,
that I don't know exactly.
Your way, your route was very clear to you.
But to me, it came very subtly.
I think that's one of the main reasons
why we didn't get into this
relationship at the beginning,
the relationship where you and I are in now.
It took some time.
We had round one and round
two. We had several attempts.
I have a question on my mind
that I would like to discuss today.
What is a successful relationship?
Let's discuss what a
successful relationship looks like.
So a relationship is a couple who meet
and spend the rest of their lives together.
I think now is a good time to discuss it.
Because you said that your
time with Marwa was very short,
as if life knew that this time was ending soon.
Do you look at that as a failed
relationship because it did not last?
No, I don't think that there is
such a thing as a failed relationship.
In my situation with Marwa, it
definitely was not a failed relationship.
We had deep love we had a strong relationship,
and we had a lot of communication.
But as for the other relationships I've
been in that ended or I deem as failed,
I don't think I should consider
them as failed relationships.
As long as we're learning something from them.
I always like to think that
the person who enters my life
has entered my life to teach me
something or I teach her something.
That's why I don't believe
in a failed relationship.
Also philosophically speaking.
I don't believe that a single relationship
is meant to be a lifelong relationship.
Sometimes a person enters our
life to teach us something like I said.
Or to leave a certain experience.
Or to spend wonderful times together.
Or to go through tiring times
but that leads to our growth.
But when I see that such
relationship is coming to an end,
I believe that we shouldn't
hang on to it too much.
Because that, too, can
create lots of difficulties.
In life, it's very easy for us to receive
beautiful things and let go of ugly things.
But if something that we see as beautiful,
but at the same time, it served its
purpose is no longer working for us,
it's very difficult for us to let go.
This creates tension and conflict.
This is an important issue to talk about
because it signals the common
values between Omar and me.
When it comes to a relationship
or when we think of the definition
of a successful relationship.
If the relationship is over, then
people say it was a failed relationship.
But Omar and I do not think that.
The more a person grows, his needs change.
Sometimes you can be with a man
who grows with you and shifts with you.
And you can be with a man
who's quite the opposite.
It's very common to be in a certain phase
of my life and need a certain something.
But a different phase of my
life, I need something different.
Just because a relationship
doesn't last, and we agree to this,
doesn't mean that it wasn't a
successful relationship or that it failed.
And I feel that in the Arab world there is a
deep pressure on a couple to remain together.
To continue their life together.
For the sake of the children.
For lots of different things,
they are forced to be together.
Children of whatever age often
know their parents very well.
And know when their parents
laugh from the bottom of their heart
and when they fake laugh.
They observe their parents and they
can tell that their mother is sticking around
because there is no other option.
They know what makes their parents feel alive.
What makes their parents less alive.
Let's talk about this liveliness.
The issue of higher purpose is
important in our relationship together,
freedom and higher purpose.
Yeah,
Speaking for myself or at least for both of us.
Freedom is very important for both of us.
And it was very clear from the very
beginning that it's an important issue.
It takes the form of
travel and adventure to me.
I don't want to be in a relationship
for someone to change me.
But that doesn't mean I may
not change within a relationship.
But I need to change because
I took the decision myself.
And I feel that this is the
natural evolution in a relationship.
So if I decide to change myself.
If I go on with my life not in a
relationship but as a single man.
And if me the same person with the
same values get into a relationship.
Life can take me onto a different route.
But that as well will be my choice.
At the same time, I will not exert
the same pressure or force you.
I don't accept that partner of a
relationship attempts to change their partner.
Sometimes this happens.
Sometimes it even happens
in the best of relationships.
Sometimes it occurs indirectly.
People don't tell their partners, 'I need
you to act differently in a certain situation.
I want you to do this job and not that job.
To travel or not travel a
lot. Say this and not that.
Some people find indirect
ways to say those things,
and it makes them believe that they are
cool that they were able to change the partners.
But partners can read this very
easily and then pressure happens.
A person who loves their partner would
want to change himself or herself a bit.
And it occurs gradually.
It may not be apparent even to that
changing person, they may not see it.
Or maybe it's evident, and they
give themselves justifications.
And then they reach this
point in the relationship
where they are too far away from each other.
Far away from the pact that they were
in at the beginning of the relationship.
[Music]
We talk about our higher purpose a lot
because sometimes a person is in a relationship
and they begin to compromise,
and then one day they
wake up and ask themselves
'what brought me here? I
don't even want to be here.'
And sometimes people after breaking
up start to rediscover themselves,
and then she becomes her real self suddenly.
I think one of the things that we
define in successful relationships
and healthy relationships is
having a dream or a higher purpose.
And this dream can be as simple as
'I would like to own a cafe by
the sea and have people come.'
Or like Omar's dreams to
write a book or go to space.
We all have different dreams
and I think that dreams do not
need in any way to be related to work.
It could be a work-related dream or a
dream that's not related to work at all.
But just something that makes you feel alive.
Something that you want to pursue.
When this exists, I believe that it
lessens the chances of over-compromising.
And it makes a couple feel that neither sacrificed
their life so the other can have a life.
And blame game does not occur in the future.
It's not only a great prevention mechanism,
But also it's something that
makes the couple super alive.
Regardless of their families and
regardless of how their marriage is.
So it protects you from
compromising more than you can.
I think we discussed abundantly
what a conscious relationship is not.
So let's now discuss what
a conscious relationship is.
You spoke about one of them that
each person needs to have a dream
and that both of them need to
support each other to achieve that dream.
I think the next more
important thing is the boundaries.
It's something that many people forget about.
I think it's important a couple clearly knows
where a person's boundary
begins and where it ends.
Exactly where do I end? And
where does the other begin?
We need a whole episode for this.
But I would like to say that it
doesn't just involve the couple.
But it also involves the whole family.
Because it's no secret that in
Egypt, when a person marries,
he doesn't just marry the wife.
But he marries her parents, her
uncles, her aunts, and all her family.
This has a huge negative impact on
the relationship and it's a huge challenge.
Boundaries also take different forms,
so it's important that a couple discuss
this before they get into a relationship.
And they need to discuss
what they do and do not accept.
What is mine and what is yours.
Another thing that was a challenge to Omar
and myself was the healthy conflict resolution.
How can we fight in a healthy way?
Sometimes we see fights that could be extremely
aggressive and involve lots of breaking.
It brings the relationship
to a place beyond repair.
It makes it very difficult to go back.
On the other hand, we see a
person who wants to say something
but is unable to say it.
Resentments keep building up.
He finds himself too far away from
the relationship where he wants to be.
That was very difficult for Omar and me.
To reach a point of good,
healthy conflict resolution.
To have successful fights.
Because our conflict methods were different.
A relationship without
fights without conflicts at all.
I think is an unhealthy relationship.
Because there has to be a
dispute, but if there is a dispute,
how are you going to argue? How can we fight?
How can we disagree over a certain issue?
And how to commit to discuss this issue
without attacking the other
person verbally or otherwise.
The last thing I would like to say
or if you have another thing to add.
There must be accord in values and lifestyle.
This makes life a lot easier.
And I think values are very important.
I don't think they can even be negotiable.
But it's important that a couple have a
conversation about each person's values in life.
And they must be in agreement.
My perspective of life what I
see right and what I see wrong?
Spirituality or religion.
The couple must be in agreement when
it comes to their principles and values.
Such things change with time,
so it's important that the couple agree
on a certain scenario or framework.
But you have an agreed-on means of dialogue.
And this also leads back
to conflict resolution.
Because a woman can 3 or
4 years later decide that now
she doesn't want to have
children but before she wanted it.
And that she would like
to wait another 3 or 4 years
or that she wants to do this or that.
Or that at the beginning,
she didn't want to work,
but she wanted to be a stay-at-home
mother, now she wants to work.
All those things can change,
so it's important to have a means
of communication or dialogue.
We have so many examples of issues
that we brought into our relationship
And other assets that remained
fixed, such as our values,
while other things, other major things changed.
Though in other relationships,
those things could be very
terminal to such relationship,
but we managed to overcome them.
Not only that, but because we live in
them, they strengthen our relationship.
It's very rare for values to change.
Values usually remain the same.
It's important for a couple
to live by the same principles.
But as Omar said, decisions do change.
And we had lots of decisions
that changed after we married.
We will share them in the coming episodes.
The last thing is lifestyle.
In addition to what everybody
knows that I like to go to bed early
and Omar likes to stay up late,
In addition to that, I mean the way of living.
How I see myself in 5 years.
How is my life in 10 years?
Do I like to go out all the time?
or do I want to stay home a bit?
I want to be with someone who travels a lot.
How is our traveling? How
does our traveling look like?
Do we have a problem with
going camping or is it only hotels?
Is going on an adventure, OK or not?
Even if values and principles are the same,
the couple need to see themselves
living the same lifestyle together.
Let me discuss out of my
experience in relationships.
Although my whole experience is
being with only 1 person before Omar.
But we have Tila together as well.
But I believe that together as individuals
when we think of a lifestyle or as a couple.
Or as a family in a certain lifestyle.
This makes a lot of difference.
It's important for us to travel the two of us,
and then as a family and do things with Tila.
We also discuss what each person
needs to do. His and her own thing as well.
I think that there needs to be an
agreement in the generic lifestyle
as a couple and also as a family
There are a lot of things that we
will dig deeper in the coming episodes.
We said before that one of the
things that sparked this podcast
is that our relationship is
different on untraditional.
It was Mint's first marriage but my second.
I've been through a very difficult experience
when I lost my wife - may she rest in peace.
When we married, it wasn't just a
relationship between the two of us,
but we also had my daughter in the picture.
She's not too young now.
She's almost 10 years old.
We had so many challenges,
including the age difference.
The height difference? No, I'm joking.
They could be in the relationships
of other parts some of them,
most of them all of them.
We see relationships in a way that's
slightly different from the average.
Or what's traditional?
in our society in general.
We are excited about the next episodes.
Are you excited very much?
I'm scared of what's going to happen.
I'm sure that in the coming
episodes would be more relaxed,
it's very exciting, but
Super private.
Not just super private, but we
just couldn't get in front of cameras.
But with time, we'll be more relaxed with you
A new episode each week.
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