Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Intrigued by the community notes popping up all over the mobile game ads, we gather to discuss an important subject: how much lying is okay? Wait, no, that can't be the subject... we meant ADVERTISING! Mobile game advertising, more specifically - though just like every good advertisement we dabble a bit outside the boundaries (allegedly). Also, İzel's favourite game gets kidnapped.
Disclaimer: This preview IS representative of the final product.
Ryan George & pickle
Pepsi Max Ad: Joke is that, this is similar to an alcohol test, but they check for sugar content in soda and policewoman kisses instead of using the regular device.
Axe Chocolate Man
As heard on podcasts:
Instagram - inconclusion_podcast
Threads - inconclusion_podcast
Bluesky - inconclusion.bsky.social
Disclaimer: This preview IS representative of the final product.
Ryan George & pickle
Pepsi Max Ad: Joke is that, this is similar to an alcohol test, but they check for sugar content in soda and policewoman kisses instead of using the regular device.
Axe Chocolate Man
As heard on podcasts:
Instagram - inconclusion_podcast
Threads - inconclusion_podcast
Bluesky - inconclusion.bsky.social
Creators & Guests
Host
Host
Melih Binali
What is Inconclusion?
A podcast about tech and stuff. Inconclusion, the discourse never ends.
Instagram - @inconclusion_podcast
Twitter - @_inconclusion_
E030_mixdown:Hey guys, as you may know I still use Twitter and I still call it Twitter because I'm not going to get into that now.
E030_mixdown:I have no idea why you had to mention that. Why would you call Twitter anything else?
E030_mixdown:I mean it's a swissish.
E030_mixdown:Right, right. Like, you know, there is a thing called community notes and they give context to other people about one thing.
E030_mixdown:Well, apparently it can also be put onto ads and there was a game that always has ads on everything.
E030_mixdown:Like, I see it on Twitter, I see it on the game ads while I was playing mobile games.
E030_mixdown:It's so annoying and it's so not true.
E030_mixdown:So the community notes, the people put into community notes that let me quote it.
E030_mixdown:The actual gameplay of Evony is entirely different from what is shown in the video.
E030_mixdown:This is a false advertisement. This is so true and I think this should be on every ad.
E030_mixdown:Because mobile game ads are never the game that you see on the video.
E030_mixdown:Okay, listen, I will need to say this. The reason why you are saying it is because you skip the ad whenever the possibility appears.
E030_mixdown:Because usually in mobile ads, at the end of the ad, they say the actual gameplay does not represent the content shown in this video.
E030_mixdown:Not all though.
E030_mixdown:I mean, yes, okay, hang on. It may say that, but I feel like there has to be some sort of stretch of acceptable on how much you're lying.
E030_mixdown:And I'm saying lying. I am saying lying, I'm not even saying misinterpreting.
E030_mixdown:We know that if you were to go to a fast food place, you know that when you order the thing, it's not going to be the thing in the picture.
E030_mixdown:And it says that this does not represent the actual food thing.
E030_mixdown:You know that, you realistic know it's not going to look that lively, it's not going to look that big.
E030_mixdown:But you still have a frame of reference that I will get a humburger and it will have cheese in it.
E030_mixdown:Two buns and two.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, it will have two buns. This is like going to a fast food place, ordering a hamburger and getting like one pickle.
E030_mixdown:And it's half-pitten.
E030_mixdown:Like.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, but wait, wait, also the ad didn't even have a pickle in it. Go on.
E030_mixdown:First of all, I would like to shout out to one of my favorite YouTubers, Ryan George, about his sketch regarding advertising.
E030_mixdown:Somehow I have no idea why you said pickle, but Ryan George's sketch about advertising also includes a pickle.
E030_mixdown:Maybe that's because I love Ryan George. Maybe that's stuck in my mind.
E030_mixdown:Sandwich with a pretty big pickle in it.
E030_mixdown:I'll put it in the show notes. It's a really great sketch.
E030_mixdown:One of my favorite Ryan George sketch actually.
E030_mixdown:And I agree with you. I agree that if you go to a hamburger place, if you order a hamburger and a pickle comes, that's a bit of a pickle you can say.
E030_mixdown:But I also think that you are maybe cherry picking an example here because you should know red kit is a cigarette commercial.
E030_mixdown:Red kit cartoon is a cigarette commercial.
E030_mixdown:That is true. Yes.
E030_mixdown:And I am fairly certain when you smoke, I mean, I am not a smoker. I don't recommend smoking. I don't care either way.
E030_mixdown:But it's not something I personally recommend.
E030_mixdown:But I am fairly certain when you smoke, you don't get teleported to a cartoon Wild West where you are fighting with four guys in an increasing height and yellow black bars on them.
E030_mixdown:Yeah. And I mean, this is also true for other commercials. That is, I think we can agree on that part.
E030_mixdown:The commercial says you are going to encounter a game and when you press on it, you get to a game.
E030_mixdown:Okay. I see the problem. I see what you are complaining about. But I don't think you are writing complaining about.
E030_mixdown:I think my problem with it is when you, like, I think we've been like trying to stray away from brand names, but I'm sorry, I can't do this anymore.
E030_mixdown:No, it wasn't intentional.
E030_mixdown:Well, I told the game.
E030_mixdown:Like when you buy a Red Bull, you know that you're not going to actually spread wings and fly away.
E030_mixdown:And what being advertised is, yes, false, but there is like a disconnect between what is to be expected and what is advertised in terms of like reality.
E030_mixdown:When you're advertising, when I'm being advertised the game and I am being shown gameplay footage, I have reasonable expectations before the end of trailer.
E030_mixdown:It reveals that it is nowhere near the thing. I have some expectations that maybe it will not be exact.
E030_mixdown:Same quality. Maybe it will not be as good. But I have to expect that it is like on some grounds similar.
E030_mixdown:Like if I'm seeing a goblin desperately trying to escape deadly traps, I am expecting the game to have at least a goblin and some traps in it.
E030_mixdown:Okay, you are, you have just wandered into a problematic territory. But NS, please say it first.
E030_mixdown:I think Binelli is wrong.
E030_mixdown:I agree.
E030_mixdown:I remember in Turkey, in one time in a cola advertisement, I guess, I used to create one of the famous models in Turkey.
E030_mixdown:Kisses a boy who drinks a cola.
E030_mixdown:Oh, no, NS, wait, you are mistaken. That's a Pepsi commercial, not a cola commercial.
E030_mixdown:It's Pepsi, isn't that cola? I really think we call them cola in Turkish.
E030_mixdown:Soda, soda. Yeah, anyway.
E030_mixdown:And one person just may go to court and sue the pep, sue the company for, "I soon called, I soon called you, didn't kiss me when I drank."
E030_mixdown:I mean...
E030_mixdown:Yeah, it was like, only the newspaper made news about it.
E030_mixdown:I remember those news. And I also remember the commercial.
E030_mixdown:I remember the commercial too. But again...
E030_mixdown:Actually, let me... I was in a restaurant and I was trying to order a drink and the guy said, "We have this..."
E030_mixdown:And I remember replying, "Oh, is this the one that I soon called you, kisses you?"
E030_mixdown:No, that's it.
E030_mixdown:Like, that was the thing. By the way, I soon called you this very attractive blonde woman.
E030_mixdown:At the time, she was more famous about being attractive.
E030_mixdown:I am not sure what she does right now. Maybe she's still an acting person.
E030_mixdown:Only people call her, "She was right."
E030_mixdown:And she was also playing a police woman.
E030_mixdown:Oh yeah, the person who is driving is pulled over.
E030_mixdown:And then, "Why did I soon called you that poor guy over?"
E030_mixdown:What happened in that commercial?
E030_mixdown:Also, what is the wrong with Pepsi that they always just...
E030_mixdown:...police in their advertisements?
E030_mixdown:This was the same time when Pepsi also had...
E030_mixdown:I think it was a similar time when Pepsi added David Beckham and...
E030_mixdown:What's the other two?
E030_mixdown:I don't care about football players. I only care about Aisun Kejo.
E030_mixdown:Marketing team of Pepsi was working. That's what I was just trying to say.
E030_mixdown:I think, unless I get lazy, I will put all of these in the show notes for our listeners to have a context.
E030_mixdown:But I agree with Enes in that.
E030_mixdown:First of all, obviously, I agree that Bineli is wrong, but more importantly...
E030_mixdown:I don't think you...
E030_mixdown:This is similar to how you think when you read something on newspaper.
E030_mixdown:The newspaper is ethically obliged to report the truth, but it really isn't.
E030_mixdown:It's obliged to make sales.
E030_mixdown:Similarly, in advertisements, it is supposed to incentivize you to buy the product or in the mobile game...
E030_mixdown:...example, download the game and play it for a bit.
E030_mixdown:It doesn't have to tell you the truth and it is very difficult because...
E030_mixdown:...when a company lies about their product in a mobile ad, it is impossible to know...
E030_mixdown:...if the same company is lying on the next ad.
E030_mixdown:You can say some companies are ethical and some companies aren't ethical...
E030_mixdown:...because it is very difficult to discern which company is selling the game in the advertisement.
E030_mixdown:Exactly.
E030_mixdown:That's actually one of my questions that I wanted to bring it up to you.
E030_mixdown:What is the difference between publishers and developers?
E030_mixdown:Because there is this technical element of actually building the game, making the game...
E030_mixdown:...and then there is a publishing element.
E030_mixdown:I feel that's more related to ads and all that area.
E030_mixdown:I want to answer this, but first let me...
E030_mixdown:I want to say another thing about the previous topic first.
E030_mixdown:Okay.
E030_mixdown:And Bin Ali, let me ask you something.
E030_mixdown:There are different companies that sell mobile games...
E030_mixdown:...and some of them are indeed just scoundrels.
E030_mixdown:I don't think scoundrel is a word that invokes any lawsuits.
E030_mixdown:I don't think this is a good word.
E030_mixdown:It's a very nice scoundrel.
E030_mixdown:Scoundrel, yeah, it's a very nice scoundrel scrutiny.
E030_mixdown:All good words.
E030_mixdown:Some companies are scoundrels and their advertisement has nothing to do with the game themselves.
E030_mixdown:And some companies are very saints that actually their game is the game they are marketing.
E030_mixdown:Both of those companies exist.
E030_mixdown:But right in the middle there is a different kind of company.
E030_mixdown:And what they do is the advertisement is in the game...
E030_mixdown:...but it's just a thing that happens rarely.
E030_mixdown:Like about a year ago, a game called Royal Match was very famous.
E030_mixdown:And in its advertisement there is this very scared looking king type person...
E030_mixdown:...who is trying to escape like a fire or flood or something...
E030_mixdown:...and you are trying to get him out of there.
E030_mixdown:Those things exist in the game itself.
E030_mixdown:But the regular gameplay is similar to Candy Crush.
E030_mixdown:But that king is gonna die unless you save him quickly.
E030_mixdown:Things also exist as sub mini games.
E030_mixdown:Like you can play those two.
E030_mixdown:But like you play five levels of regular game and then one level of this thing which is optional.
E030_mixdown:And you don't have to.
E030_mixdown:I just want to add something.
E030_mixdown:One time I saw a game video and I really liked the mechanic in the video.
E030_mixdown:So I downloaded the game hoping it would come up at least rarely during the gameplay.
E030_mixdown:But I played like more than 100 levels in a few categories and I never got to that game.
E030_mixdown:So I was mad and I deleted it.
E030_mixdown:Then a few weeks later Jan Deniz saw the same video.
E030_mixdown:He was like "This is really cool, I wanna play this".
E030_mixdown:And I said it doesn't have that mechanic.
E030_mixdown:And he was like "No, it would come up sometime, sure".
E030_mixdown:And he did the same and yeah, the mechanic was not in the game.
E030_mixdown:Because you said this I have to add.
E030_mixdown:Indeed, she is right.
E030_mixdown:That game didn't have that mechanic but a similar game had that mechanic.
E030_mixdown:And it really was like in 10 levels you unlock the thing and that type of thing.
E030_mixdown:Like you play 10 levels, you play one level of the game you want to play and then you play 10 more boring levels and so on.
E030_mixdown:And I asked myself "But this is a very easy mechanic".
E030_mixdown:Surely there must be some games purely based on this.
E030_mixdown:And I was right, I was able to like after more research, you are actually able to find the mechanic that the game features as bonus.
E030_mixdown:Like that game also exists.
E030_mixdown:But I'm gonna say one more thing and then I'm gonna...
E030_mixdown:Let me quickly say this before the topic gets any more away.
E030_mixdown:And then there's the fourth type of company, Binale.
E030_mixdown:And those companies they are like...
E030_mixdown:I don't wanna say worst of worst but I don't condone what I'm about to tell you right now.
E030_mixdown:What they do is they speculate that they can make several different type of additions to their game.
E030_mixdown:Addition to a game is already a problematic notion.
E030_mixdown:Maybe we'll come back to that later.
E030_mixdown:And what they do is they release maybe 10 different kind of ads.
E030_mixdown:And the popular ads become futures, become futures of the game in the future.
E030_mixdown:Okay, well okay.
E030_mixdown:I have several words.
E030_mixdown:It isn't just some people lie and some people tell the truth.
E030_mixdown:There are different business practices related to the type of deception associated with the ads they are showing.
E030_mixdown:Yes, I have several words prepared for you.
E030_mixdown:First of all, yes, a newspaper is written to make money, not tell the truth.
E030_mixdown:But I mean, it is at this current age, it is.
E030_mixdown:We can discuss the morality and origins of newspapers in a whole different setting.
E030_mixdown:But right now that is true.
E030_mixdown:But that is also not very relevant because newspapers also on paper
E030_mixdown:cannot just tell lies or they will face consequences.
E030_mixdown:Like you can't just, because it is easy to market, just print out complete lies.
E030_mixdown:I mean, you shouldn't be able to, I say.
E030_mixdown:I'm not going to say you can't because you obviously can.
E030_mixdown:Like that is also a problem there.
E030_mixdown:It's not like that is a problem that was solved in the newspapers or like in any industry.
E030_mixdown:And this is a specific problem only happening in like game advertisement or advertisement in general.
E030_mixdown:Second, yes, advertisements can be tricky.
E030_mixdown:And I'm not saying that advertisements has to like summarize your experience perfectly and something or it's evil or it's like manipulative.
E030_mixdown:Obviously, there is going to be space for like freedom in advertisement.
E030_mixdown:There's going to be space for like pulling customers in.
E030_mixdown:But that also has to be some like at least precedence or like some regulation, some, some anything for you to be able to put up something that is completely out of this reality and market it as if you are, that is your product.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, I guess like for me, it's kind of similar to almost a perfume ads in a while.
E030_mixdown:Like what are you seeing in the perfume ad does not have anything to do with the perfume.
E030_mixdown:What's happening on the ad?
E030_mixdown:That's preposterous.
E030_mixdown:Whenever I put acts perfume on myself, I immediately become chocolate.
E030_mixdown:I'm confirmed.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:So a white horse appears and I'm on it.
E030_mixdown:I don't know.
E030_mixdown:Wild horses are very dangerous.
E030_mixdown:You shouldn't try to write them unless you very unless you know what you are doing very well.
E030_mixdown:Wild horses are notorious like they have long kicks and strong bites.
E030_mixdown:You should be careful around wild horses.
E030_mixdown:Horses are scary.
E030_mixdown:And they are territorial too.
E030_mixdown:You should be very careful around wild horses.
E030_mixdown:But I think maybe there can be something related to that in a way that does not necessarily have to represent the reality of the product.
E030_mixdown:But I do agree with like when it's a gameplay ad, like when you have a snippet of the gameplay,
E030_mixdown:you feel like you should see it when it's presented that way.
E030_mixdown:Or at least in the corner somewhere during the whole ad, it should say like this is not an actual game in game footage.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Well, I want to add something to that.
E030_mixdown:You mentioned.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Okay, I'm not going to go with a perfume commercial, but let's talk about the chocolate bar.
E030_mixdown:If the ad says it has walnut in it, when I bite into it and it has...
E030_mixdown:Pistachio or like salted caramel, like whatever.
E030_mixdown:The whole flavor is different, but the packaging says...
E030_mixdown:I think it's more similar to that kind of analogy than a Red Bull commercial saying it's going to make you fly.
E030_mixdown:What does it say in English?
E030_mixdown:First of all, packaging gives you wings.
E030_mixdown:Packaging and advertisement is a total different thing.
E030_mixdown:When you press the button, when you press an ad word and you go to the place where you download the game,
E030_mixdown:it's called Storefront, but it's more similar to chocolate packaging in that sense.
E030_mixdown:In that page, the pictures you put actually have to show the application.
E030_mixdown:Google and/or Apple will come after you if you put fake pictures there.
E030_mixdown:Your game will be rejected by the system if those pictures aren't accurate.
E030_mixdown:I think it's time for me to do my rant on this.
E030_mixdown:Okay, go on.
E030_mixdown:Go on, but I will circle back to this specific sentence.
E030_mixdown:There was a game that I used to play at least five years.
E030_mixdown:I purchased no ads option and I would casually play it on the site.
E030_mixdown:It was my fidget toy because the way I played it, you just interacted for one time in two minutes or something.
E030_mixdown:I would just watch it on the site like people do with Subway surfers games.
E030_mixdown:Or loading, yes.
E030_mixdown:One day I was playing the game, watching my TV show on my tablets and it was time to sleep.
E030_mixdown:I went to sleep, I woke up.
E030_mixdown:I wanted to continue my game from the other night.
E030_mixdown:When I opened the game, there was another game in the game.
E030_mixdown:It was not my game anymore.
E030_mixdown:They changed the game overnight.
E030_mixdown:Yes, similar mechanics, but it's completely different.
E030_mixdown:It has nothing to do with the game I was playing.
E030_mixdown:My game was infinite.
E030_mixdown:Did the name change too?
E030_mixdown:No, the game had levels.
E030_mixdown:You couldn't play infinitely anymore.
E030_mixdown:You couldn't change the balls.
E030_mixdown:It was a ball-flinging game and I had a favorite ball.
E030_mixdown:It had none of that.
E030_mixdown:On top of that, it had ads that I paid to get rid of.
E030_mixdown:When you went to the storefront on App Store, it was the old game.
E030_mixdown:It had old screenshots, it had old in-app purchases lists.
E030_mixdown:Only thing that changed was the description.
E030_mixdown:It said "New game model".
E030_mixdown:Wait, how can they do this?
E030_mixdown:People totally dropped the ball there.
E030_mixdown:Why do they do this?
E030_mixdown:Those are two different questions.
E030_mixdown:Both are very interesting questions.
E030_mixdown:How they can do this and why they do this?
E030_mixdown:Isal, you should say things about these things.
E030_mixdown:Or not.
E030_mixdown:What?
E030_mixdown:You were the person who took care of our storefronts when we were trying to become a game startup.
E030_mixdown:Maybe you should answer how they can do this question.
E030_mixdown:According to the rules, they should not be able to do that.
E030_mixdown:That's the literal example of false advertising.
E030_mixdown:It also reminds me of how Apple vs...
E030_mixdown:Was it called "versus"?
E030_mixdown:I don't know.
E030_mixdown:Apple v Epic case started, but it's another topic.
E030_mixdown:You know what this reminds me of?
E030_mixdown:The whole situation of you sleeping to a certain game.
E030_mixdown:The game's name is the same and the game being downloaded on your phone is the same.
E030_mixdown:But the whole experience of the game is different.
E030_mixdown:November Revolution.
E030_mixdown:Remember the surprise of English Prime Minister when he woke up one morning and found that Russian Empire became Soviet Union.
E030_mixdown:I just feel like that was a process and it didn't happen in one night.
E030_mixdown:And there were warning signs.
E030_mixdown:After dinner, the supervisor of the company came and said,
E030_mixdown:"You know, we should totally make this different game."
E030_mixdown:That was a process too, probably.
E030_mixdown:You could have just used a look at the example and said it was like a deterrent declaring we will be a republic.
E030_mixdown:Oh yeah, that happened overnight.
E030_mixdown:Mr. Svival announced the Republic tomorrow.
E030_mixdown:But Soviet is a funnier example, I think, because the whole experience changed.
E030_mixdown:The declaration of republic was like they were already a republic.
E030_mixdown:You definitely changed the entire experience of this episode.
E030_mixdown:Okay, Soviet Union, the solution then.
E030_mixdown:Are you happy that happened faster?
E030_mixdown:No, it didn't.
E030_mixdown:One day suddenly some Russian guy...
E030_mixdown:That happened over 30 years!
E030_mixdown:What are you talking about?
E030_mixdown:I think I came and said to the United Nations Security Council,
E030_mixdown:"Hey, I am Soviets now. I am gonna sit here."
E030_mixdown:And then it continued.
E030_mixdown:Okay, thank you.
E030_mixdown:My epic example is not that adopted.
E030_mixdown:You can comfortably tell about what happened there.
E030_mixdown:Well, should I?
E030_mixdown:Or Binariv was gonna say something?
E030_mixdown:I don't even remember what I was gonna say.
E030_mixdown:I'm gone.
E030_mixdown:Just like the Soviets.
E030_mixdown:Well, in that case, what happened was
E030_mixdown:epic inserted way to buy game currency, I think.
E030_mixdown:By passing Apple's system.
E030_mixdown:According to Apple's app store policies,
E030_mixdown:the apps can only use Apple's in-app purchase systems.
E030_mixdown:This was also a problem with Netflix and Amazon,
E030_mixdown:with their Kindle services.
E030_mixdown:Because Apple is a tyrant.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Epic put a way to buy game currency out of the Apple's store,
E030_mixdown:and they didn't show it in the updates.
E030_mixdown:After a while passed since the game was approved,
E030_mixdown:and the update was approved by Apple,
E030_mixdown:and they opened the payment method to everyone,
E030_mixdown:and Apple said, "No, you can't do that."
E030_mixdown:They removed the game from their store,
E030_mixdown:and this is how the whole thing was started.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, but I guess when you're epic and not the mobile game,
E030_mixdown:it's a likes play, it's harder to get away with it.
E030_mixdown:I also wanna give an example that's completely out of the topic.
E030_mixdown:I think the way they did this was like,
E030_mixdown:it is to us that the first World War has started.
E030_mixdown:I can't say it in English, that guy was shot and...
E030_mixdown:Australian, Hungarian?
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Franz Ferdinand?
E030_mixdown:Yeah, he was shot and the whole world started warring.
E030_mixdown:Oh yeah, it's a really nice indie song, "Take Me Out".
E030_mixdown:It's not Franz Ferdinand.
E030_mixdown:It's a guitar, bro.
E030_mixdown:They wanted to fight, so they fought, yeah.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, yeah, it was just...
E030_mixdown:Don't blame the...
E030_mixdown:Spark.
E030_mixdown:It was not the way the whole world started the war.
E030_mixdown:Yes.
E030_mixdown:I think it's similar to that.
E030_mixdown:Epic wanted something to Apple for this policy and they did this.
E030_mixdown:Oh, definitely.
E030_mixdown:Epic was...
E030_mixdown:Stop right here.
E030_mixdown:No, we're gonna stop right here.
E030_mixdown:Epic, little advertisement is ready to go at the second, the news bro.
E030_mixdown:We are in dangerous waters.
E030_mixdown:We cannot claim that some company did something for a reason.
E030_mixdown:Legitly.
E030_mixdown:We are in dangerous waters just like...
E030_mixdown:This is important because even though you say Apple is a tyrant,
E030_mixdown:Epic is a petty company, Apple wouldn't sue us for this, but Epic might.
E030_mixdown:So...
E030_mixdown:You're right.
E030_mixdown:I am not...
E030_mixdown:Okay, okay, let me rephrase.
E030_mixdown:Allegedly.
E030_mixdown:Like, our lawyers are far weaker than those of Apple, so I am not risking it.
E030_mixdown:Do we have lawyers?
E030_mixdown:I have a lawyer friend.
E030_mixdown:We have the guy from Arrested Development.
E030_mixdown:Well, if they sued us, we could have used it to advertise our podcast,
E030_mixdown:so maybe we would have some listeners.
E030_mixdown:You're actually right.
E030_mixdown:They would just throw us a cease and desist, and we would cease...
E030_mixdown:We would desist the episode.
E030_mixdown:You are totally right.
E030_mixdown:If Vinayri keeps talking about Epic with whatever Tomi wants,
E030_mixdown:we need the advertisement.
E030_mixdown:We need the cloud.
E030_mixdown:I will do it again.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, like, people would come to us to hear us put Epic down in many ways,
E030_mixdown:but they would get us talking about...
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:What did we talk about last week?
E030_mixdown:I don't know, but if Epic does so, we can talk about that in an episode,
E030_mixdown:and we can call that episode "Epic Fail".
E030_mixdown:That's what I'm looking forward to now.
E030_mixdown:We can also call this episode "Epic Fail".
E030_mixdown:But the short episode "Names Don't..."
E030_mixdown:No, but last time I tried to name an episode after a game,
E030_mixdown:it performed very badly, so I'm kind of...
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Which leads us back to the advertisement topic.
E030_mixdown:The thing is, maybe I have a more technologically relevant example.
E030_mixdown:Do you remember, two years ago, there was this very popular channel in YouTube?
E030_mixdown:What was it called? Something 42, I think.
E030_mixdown:The thing with the "Sorgsavash".
E030_mixdown:Base.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:It was base first, then they changed it to post.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:What did you...
E030_mixdown:Somebody bought the channel.
E030_mixdown:Oh, I remember that.
E030_mixdown:Somebody bought the channel.
E030_mixdown:IJ and Turkey.
E030_mixdown:It was a popular channel, and somebody bought it, and then they changed the logo,
E030_mixdown:and then changed the channel name, and erased all the old videos.
E030_mixdown:So what I think, what I thought was at the time,
E030_mixdown:why did they do this? Those three things, channel name, logo, and...
E030_mixdown:What was the last thing?
E030_mixdown:Videos.
E030_mixdown:Channel name, logo, and videos are the reason why that channel is popular.
E030_mixdown:If you take all of those out, you have destroyed the brand.
E030_mixdown:That brand no longer exists. Why did you pay for it?
E030_mixdown:Yeah. Imagine someone doing that to an important website.
E030_mixdown:Amazon bought a photography channel, and they just shut it down.
E030_mixdown:They deleted the channel.
E030_mixdown:Yes, but that wasn't what happened though.
E030_mixdown:They kept being the same channel.
E030_mixdown:They just didn't have their old videos, and old logo, and old name anymore.
E030_mixdown:And somebody told me, "Yeah, but they keep the subscribers."
E030_mixdown:I mean, yes, but...
E030_mixdown:So back to the...
E030_mixdown:Soviet Union, they keep their subscribers when they do these changes.
E030_mixdown:And buy subscribers.
E030_mixdown:By the way, that was the metaphor I was going with when I said some Russian guy came and sat on the UN Security Council.
E030_mixdown:I was avoiding naming games, so they wouldn't have any more advertising, because I hate them now.
E030_mixdown:I support you hating them.
E030_mixdown:I can just censor it and act like it's a swear curse word.
E030_mixdown:Thank you.
E030_mixdown:Which they are.
E030_mixdown:I'm going to put a better game next to them, and then I'm going to outcompete them.
E030_mixdown:What the hell, yeah.
E030_mixdown:That's not relevant.
E030_mixdown:That's not...
E030_mixdown:This whole episode isn't an advertisement for my upcoming game.
E030_mixdown:Well, this is the title.
E030_mixdown:It cannot be the episode title.
E030_mixdown:Not the advertisement for my upcoming game, is that...
E030_mixdown:We can't do that.
E030_mixdown:But yeah, that's the reason.
E030_mixdown:When they do this, when they change the whole game, instead of putting up a new game, what happens is the following.
E030_mixdown:You see the ad to the game, because after they change the game, they probably didn't advertise the campaign.
E030_mixdown:You click on the game and you enter and you see like, "Oh, this game has 1 million players.
E030_mixdown:It's probably not a garbage game."
E030_mixdown:And then you download it.
E030_mixdown:Instead, if they started with a new game, you would enter and be like, "Oh, only a thousand people played this game."
E030_mixdown:It's probably not that good and you come back.
E030_mixdown:So what they are trying to do is they are trying to direct the ads for their new game to a storefront
E030_mixdown:that shows that a large number of people played the game.
E030_mixdown:And that's the why.
E030_mixdown:Also, it's an old game.
E030_mixdown:So, but the developers are doing this or the publishers are doing this?
E030_mixdown:Or is it like a small team who's doing it?
E030_mixdown:Is that probably the developer team?
E030_mixdown:I am going to answer the difference between the publisher and the team.
E030_mixdown:In this case, the game was bought by another company a few years ago.
E030_mixdown:It's not the same company that originally made the game.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, but I have seen the new game and it would maybe take 2 months or 3 months to develop it.
E030_mixdown:So it's not a 2 years long project.
E030_mixdown:I don't think.
E030_mixdown:But it is very possible that they gave advertisements about the new version.
E030_mixdown:Like I said, several different ads and the popular ones get made.
E030_mixdown:Maybe that happened a year ago.
E030_mixdown:So they sent all these different commercials and the popular ones became the new game.
E030_mixdown:That might have happened.
E030_mixdown:I can't confirm.
E030_mixdown:I actually can confirm that.
E030_mixdown:I think we can do this with Facebook.
E030_mixdown:You can go to the Facebook and see what ads were given by that game in the past year.
E030_mixdown:But we haven't done that.
E030_mixdown:Let me quickly say, Elif's answer is really short.
E030_mixdown:I am going to just say, publishers and developers don't necessarily have to be two different companies.
E030_mixdown:But that sometimes is the case.
E030_mixdown:Developer makes the game, publisher markets the game.
E030_mixdown:Because marketing games actually, if you are a person listening to this podcast
E030_mixdown:and you are thinking about entering mobile game markets, this is a warning to you.
E030_mixdown:You think that developing a game is cheap, especially if you are volunteer.
E030_mixdown:Like if you and your few friends think we building a game will be so much fun,
E030_mixdown:we can just do it and put it to the store.
E030_mixdown:And we will have no costs.
E030_mixdown:You are totally right.
E030_mixdown:Developing a game is free.
E030_mixdown:The only real cost is labor.
E030_mixdown:Marketing a game is very expensive.
E030_mixdown:When you see a very big title like Call of Duty Games or World of Warcraft, that scale,
E030_mixdown:more than half of their budget goes to marketing.
E030_mixdown:Like the whole technology, developing, arts, drawing, all of those things are less than the amount they spend on marketing.
E030_mixdown:And those games are already popular.
E030_mixdown:The cost to lift a game from nothing to a relative popularity is much a mobile game,
E030_mixdown:is much more than the cost of actually building the game.
E030_mixdown:So you and your five volunteer game enthusiastic friends, you cannot afford that.
E030_mixdown:And what you do is you go to a publisher and say, "Look, I developed this game.
E030_mixdown:I want to market it and then you get some of the income and we get some of the income."
E030_mixdown:Depending on your bargaining power, you can get a larger small share.
E030_mixdown:And then they will be like, "We showed some ads and turns out this part and we did some statistical analysis.
E030_mixdown:And this part of the game is garbage, this part of the game is better.
E030_mixdown:You should throw out these, you should make this character brown.
E030_mixdown:You should make this apple and avocado stuff like that.
E030_mixdown:And after a few iterations, you have a game that can produce some profits.
E030_mixdown:Now you might think as a volunteer, enthusiastic person, this is not the game I started with.
E030_mixdown:This is a husk, this is garbage.
E030_mixdown:And you hate the product, but that's what happens.
E030_mixdown:I'm not saying this happens all the time, by the way.
E030_mixdown:I'm just saying that sometimes happens.
E030_mixdown:But publishers are the marketing people if they are two different companies.
E030_mixdown:But with a big game company, you would probably find that they have their own marketing division.
E030_mixdown:They do their own publishing.
E030_mixdown:But that's not always the case.
E030_mixdown:The game, Izel Menshin probably has a publisher.
E030_mixdown:But Blizzard has their own marketing team.
E030_mixdown:And that's what I'm talking about.
E030_mixdown:Unfortunately, so.
E030_mixdown:And Izel is going to say something.
E030_mixdown:Yes.
E030_mixdown:I was going to say something, but when you're talking about this, it's still, we come to an AI episode again.
E030_mixdown:That the AI, the machine, or the machine is replaced with a huge network of people who are being tested.
E030_mixdown:Which is a data set.
E030_mixdown:And the results, like no matter what the result is, you need to do this to get better results.
E030_mixdown:In a way.
E030_mixdown:I mean, like, like there is no reason behind all of the decisions because it gets more.
E030_mixdown:Interaction and people who, like people who downloaded this new design stayed more in the game.
E030_mixdown:And that's the only reason there is no other kind of research data, I guess.
E030_mixdown:That's arbitrary.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, there can be other research data.
E030_mixdown:I mean, they can do other research as well.
E030_mixdown:But I think publishers, I mean, not publishers, developers or the investors actually seeing only seeing this data, I guess.
E030_mixdown:Okay.
E030_mixdown:Is this the reason?
E030_mixdown:And let me tell you about a particular company in Turkey.
E030_mixdown:I actually really like this company.
E030_mixdown:They are the slither of mobile game development in Turkey.
E030_mixdown:I mean, that's my impression.
E030_mixdown:They don't, they don't market themselves as such.
E030_mixdown:I like, I think this is positive.
E030_mixdown:I'm everything I'm going to say about them will be positive.
E030_mixdown:So I think it's okay.
E030_mixdown:I like I said, I like this company.
E030_mixdown:They are called Alictus.
E030_mixdown:Their symbol is a guy hidden in a cactus suit.
E030_mixdown:Even though they claim that Alien cactus, that's ridiculous.
E030_mixdown:It's a guy in a cactus suit.
E030_mixdown:They're logo and they do hyper casual mobile games.
E030_mixdown:And what they do is something called, I mean, it's not something that they do exclusively, but they are the ones who explained how this is done to me, like not to me personally.
E030_mixdown:It was in a conference, but it's called A/B testing.
E030_mixdown:And what A/B testing basically means is you have a, like you show the same ad to say a thousand people to half of them.
E030_mixdown:You show one version of the ad to other half, you show a different version of the ad.
E030_mixdown:And you look at which version is more popular.
E030_mixdown:Like Alictus boils every decision they make into such things.
E030_mixdown:Like they actually explained how they started the game with different color of logos and red logo performed better.
E030_mixdown:Like the game icon in your mobile phone.
E030_mixdown:The color of that icon, they A/B tested.
E030_mixdown:So Alictus has more marketing people than software developing and visual making people.
E030_mixdown:Does their own marketing and they are very good at this, I believe.
E030_mixdown:Like I said, you may or may not be knowing this hyper casual market is shrinking.
E030_mixdown:Like a lot of hyper casual publishers are no longer profiting as they used to.
E030_mixdown:And Turkey had this big boom of hyper casual games.
E030_mixdown:And it was my prediction that maybe one or two of them will survive and one of them will be Alictus.
E030_mixdown:And indeed, like up to five, five months ago, Alictus was the only company that insisted on going with hyper casuals while others tried to branch out in order to survive.
E030_mixdown:So NS with a game like hyper casuals are very simple games.
E030_mixdown:So you can very easily make assessments about your decisions based on yes/no questions.
E030_mixdown:Like it is easy to convert design choices into yes/no questions with a hyper casual game.
E030_mixdown:This is more difficult with World of Warcraft.
E030_mixdown:You can't A/B test everything in World of Warcraft.
E030_mixdown:There are so many things.
E030_mixdown:And they are more complex than yes/no questions.
E030_mixdown:But you can convert every decision into that and make tests to find out.
E030_mixdown:If it's hard for a developer to change many things in a game, they change it completely like in Zaz case, I guess.
E030_mixdown:I mean, how difficult something is for developers to change is not very easy to say.
E030_mixdown:That very much depends on what you are working with.
E030_mixdown:There isn't a clear answer for that.
E030_mixdown:I mean, if they are changing so many things, then it won't be the same game.
E030_mixdown:And new game they put in the old games slot, like in Zaz, old favorite game, it changes completely.
E030_mixdown:Like there is not, like the old game is gone.
E030_mixdown:I mean, that's not...
E030_mixdown:Long live the new game.
E030_mixdown:That's not something exclusive to the mobile games though.
E030_mixdown:That's not even something exclusive to just games.
E030_mixdown:It's just something that happens with all the software.
E030_mixdown:Like it has the potential to happen with all the software that gets updates.
E030_mixdown:Like there are some computers games that I downloaded.
E030_mixdown:That happens all the time.
E030_mixdown:So that's the other question.
E030_mixdown:I had another question kind of related to that in my mind, like overall.
E030_mixdown:When we had these agreements and when we download a game or when we download the store apps like Apple Play or Google Play,
E030_mixdown:like when we click those tiny text, do we agree to this?
E030_mixdown:Do you guys know anything about that?
E030_mixdown:Like when we download the app?
E030_mixdown:What are you asking?
E030_mixdown:Are you asking if we agree to whether they can change the game or not?
E030_mixdown:Exactly.
E030_mixdown:I mean, that's not necessary.
E030_mixdown:Like the terms and conditions are it related to the product itself?
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Like you can't say things like in an agreement.
E030_mixdown:I mean, I'm not saying you can't say this.
E030_mixdown:What I'm saying is you don't have to.
E030_mixdown:I haven't seen a single terms and conditions that include so far in my life.
E030_mixdown:I just don't think that is something you can like contest through terms and conditions because imagine,
E030_mixdown:I'm going to circle back to word of work.
E030_mixdown:Imagine you're playing like rogue and one update comes out and you get nervous and like your build doesn't work anymore.
E030_mixdown:Are you just going to sue Blizzard?
E030_mixdown:Like it wasn't in terms of conditions that you could update my class like this.
E030_mixdown:And that's default.
E030_mixdown:You can update like terms and conditions.
E030_mixdown:Aren't even related to how the product would work.
E030_mixdown:That's what I'm trying to explain to you.
E030_mixdown:Like terms and conditions doesn't mean this cheese won't kill you.
E030_mixdown:It just means that this cheese packaging has certain colors on it.
E030_mixdown:Like that's the type of that they are a very surface level thing.
E030_mixdown:They don't actually they aren't related to how the thing works.
E030_mixdown:It just sort of tells like not how you interact with the thing,
E030_mixdown:but how your phone interacts with the thing.
E030_mixdown:Like it will ask for these that has and that's what it's going to do with those that has.
E030_mixdown:That's the terms and conditions.
E030_mixdown:It hasn't anything to do with how the application actually works.
E030_mixdown:But I think you raise an interesting question because when you buy a game like Izel did,
E030_mixdown:I think you should like they have literally changed the thing that Izel paid for
E030_mixdown:without any possibility for Izel to reject that.
E030_mixdown:I don't think that's okay.
E030_mixdown:I think that's a very problematic practice.
E030_mixdown:It does, but it happens all the time, doesn't it?
E030_mixdown:I mean, yes.
E030_mixdown:It comes to the topic of digital property.
E030_mixdown:When Izel said this, I said, do you remember that time Apple decided that you can no longer
E030_mixdown:use any 32 bits programs in Apple computers?
E030_mixdown:And nobody sued Apple for that.
E030_mixdown:So I don't think you will get very far if you try to sue the company responsible for Izel's game.
E030_mixdown:I mean, you also can't go back and play like old expansions of games
E030_mixdown:or old updates of games for many games.
E030_mixdown:Like some developers are nice and they put their old builds in that like steam properties thing,
E030_mixdown:if you're in steam.
E030_mixdown:But for most games, you can't do that on computer either.
E030_mixdown:Once a game gets an update, it gets an update and you're stuck there.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, that's pretty much it.
E030_mixdown:Similar thing happened recently with the big game.
E030_mixdown:Was it CSGO?
E030_mixdown:Yes, I believe so.
E030_mixdown:It's a new game, but it's on the same page of the previous game.
E030_mixdown:So within the first hours of the game, people were having like a thousand hours in the game.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, yeah.
E030_mixdown:Then did you play this much?
E030_mixdown:Yeah, that's the type of problem I wanted to point out.
E030_mixdown:I was playing this game earlier, foreshadowed this when I was saying something to Enes,
E030_mixdown:or Binelli Ayanat-Sür.
E030_mixdown:Recently, there has been a trend of instead of doing something new,
E030_mixdown:changing the thing that already exists a bit and market that.
E030_mixdown:Like, we see that with Paradox Games, another company that I like.
E030_mixdown:I am fighting so hard with myself to not say anything.
E030_mixdown:A company that I like.
E030_mixdown:They started selling DSCs and instead of building more games,
E030_mixdown:they are like, "This is the game.
E030_mixdown:We are going to just keep making tweaks on the game for the next five years."
E030_mixdown:And in opposition, you have the Total War games that are like the different skins of the same game,
E030_mixdown:like since ROM 2.
E030_mixdown:Ever since...
E030_mixdown:This is very recent event, actually.
E030_mixdown:They are saying that Faroq is the risk of the Greek game.
E030_mixdown:That was a literal risk, but even before that, they were like...
E030_mixdown:Medieval 2 was the same engine with ROM,
E030_mixdown:Atilla was the same engine with ROM.
E030_mixdown:You can do the same engine, but it doesn't have to be the risk.
E030_mixdown:But the thing with the phenomenon of publishing a game and just keeping that going,
E030_mixdown:instead of publishing a game.
E030_mixdown:By the way, I am defending Total War with this.
E030_mixdown:Total War is doing the right thing.
E030_mixdown:When they improve the thing, they are saying that...
E030_mixdown:They don't say, "In ROM, you can also play medieval campaigns now."
E030_mixdown:They are saying, "We have this different game, which is medieval too."
E030_mixdown:That's not what people are doing.
E030_mixdown:What people are doing is they are trying to add the new features to the original game,
E030_mixdown:so that the original game is unplayable.
E030_mixdown:And nothing new ever comes out.
E030_mixdown:Nothing new ever comes out.
E030_mixdown:I mean, this is like a recent...
E030_mixdown:We have so many titles in this episode.
E030_mixdown:I think this is just not exclusive to Paradox Games, though.
E030_mixdown:In fact, I would say Paradox Games are even on a more innocent scale of it,
E030_mixdown:because there is a phenomenon of in recent live service games,
E030_mixdown:which is just a perpetual game that gets constant updates.
E030_mixdown:If a game is getting constant updates, that means it's not going to stay the same any month of the year,
E030_mixdown:which is what's happening with this game, which does cause burnout.
E030_mixdown:A lot of players are like, "I started this game when I liked it,
E030_mixdown:and now it's a whole different game, and I do not enjoy it anymore, so I'm going to stop playing."
E030_mixdown:Most of these games, I'm not going to say all, there are still a couple of them.
E030_mixdown:They're really successful, but most of these games just die out within a year or two,
E030_mixdown:because you cannot sustain that kind of behavior.
E030_mixdown:Okay, so here...
E030_mixdown:I think the difference is we're kind of moving away to a more general game discussion,
E030_mixdown:but I think the mobile games also have this other challenge that we discussed before keeping the people in,
E030_mixdown:or keeping the subscribers in YouTube case-in.
E030_mixdown:Like having fighting for the app store space,
E030_mixdown:with the recommended section space that they got within that old game,
E030_mixdown:and with the updates now they're trying to use that space that they fight for, basically, for something new.
E030_mixdown:I feel like it could be related to it, but I don't know how much detail...
E030_mixdown:I don't know it that much in detail how things work in app store space,
E030_mixdown:location, how things are recommended, or how do you get that location.
E030_mixdown:Do you guys know anything about that?
E030_mixdown:Do you even use app stores?
E030_mixdown:I mean, maybe the question is different, but...
E030_mixdown:I have a thing I want to say.
E030_mixdown:But like, please finish on us.
E030_mixdown:I accidentally stepped on your words.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, actually I thought maybe, okay, yeah, there are some ways of recommendation in the app stores.
E030_mixdown:Those space are definitely valuable,
E030_mixdown:but I don't think that the main marketing strategies are based on app stores and being recommended in app stores.
E030_mixdown:Maybe it was like this 10 years ago,
E030_mixdown:but now with the social media and the infinite scroll,
E030_mixdown:and I think companies are aiming to reach people throughout those spaces more with advertisements, I guess.
E030_mixdown:But still there is... I mean, it is like, I don't want to misdirect the question.
E030_mixdown:I just want to add something that until a few months ago, there were fewer ways to pay money to be seen higher on the app store.
E030_mixdown:But Apple introduced new ways,
E030_mixdown:but I'm not... well, since then we have already started making games, so...
E030_mixdown:You no longer follow those news.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, I just heard it on my Apple Tech shows, Apple Tech podcast.
E030_mixdown:So, well, I agree with Enes on that.
E030_mixdown:App store is not the place they try to find people,
E030_mixdown:but you can't argue that the lists are not important to the developers.
E030_mixdown:But they want to keep the people or the download number from the previous one.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, but what I was trying to mean is their goal is to be high on the list.
E030_mixdown:They won't want to be...
E030_mixdown:Yeah, if your game is popular, it will be popular. It's a different mindset.
E030_mixdown:You want to be on the top games of the week chart. You want to be high.
E030_mixdown:Definitely, you don't want to be low.
E030_mixdown:So, yeah, yeah, you don't.
E030_mixdown:I'm going to give a bit of a monologue. It's going to be a bit grim,
E030_mixdown:but I am going to give it based on a bit of personal experience and a bit of conjecture.
E030_mixdown:So, mobile game marketing is similar to Shrek, to Ogres, in that it has layers.
E030_mixdown:And so far, we have been peeling the outer layers with deceptive advertising and game market storefront gimmicks.
E030_mixdown:But let's go a bit deeper. Let me ask you.
E030_mixdown:Whenever you play a mobile game, something happens and maybe you die.
E030_mixdown:And the game says you want to watch an ad and keep playing.
E030_mixdown:And you do press that. I'm certain most of you do audience and you guys.
E030_mixdown:And some ad appears. And in the ad, more often than not, you encounter ads for a different game.
E030_mixdown:On occasions, sometimes even the same game, ridiculous. You are already playing the game.
E030_mixdown:And it shows that don't you think that's kind of weird?
E030_mixdown:Like in TV ads, most ads aren't other TV channels.
E030_mixdown:In roadside things, with the roadside advertisements, the posters,
E030_mixdown:they aren't advertisement about other roadside signs.
E030_mixdown:And yet, in the mobile games, the plurality of the ads you see, you guys see, are ads about other games.
E030_mixdown:Don't you think where does the water to that wheel comes from?
E030_mixdown:And unlike many situations we encounter in this podcast, this time it isn't about money laundering.
E030_mixdown:It really isn't because there is a reason why this happens.
E030_mixdown:Because you are not the audience for those games.
E030_mixdown:Unlike you are a North American, unlike you are a Canadian or US citizen who is listening to this podcast.
E030_mixdown:In that case, you are the audience for these games.
E030_mixdown:What you are to a game developer as a Turkish person is a number.
E030_mixdown:You are just one more person who is playing the game.
E030_mixdown:Your playing the game is next to nothing for a mobile game.
E030_mixdown:So you see different ads because they are trying to use your playing the game to bump up their numbers.
E030_mixdown:Where they really break their money is rich countries like North America, Canada and US.
E030_mixdown:Or like maybe Germany, I am not sure about Germany because German people don't usually play mobile games.
E030_mixdown:In Europe countries I guess.
E030_mixdown:European countries don't play a lot of mobile games.
E030_mixdown:That's what they were saying to us back at the day.
E030_mixdown:That is also the reason why ads don't really try that hard for your attention.
E030_mixdown:Like they can be deceptive because the type of mindset behind those ads is
E030_mixdown:the type of person who will play our game is a North American idiot.
E030_mixdown:Their terms not mine.
E030_mixdown:Who will pick up this game and press buttons for like 5 minutes.
E030_mixdown:In those 5 minutes you need to make that stupid person feel like they are smart person.
E030_mixdown:And if you can make that stupid person feel like they are smart, they will keep playing.
E030_mixdown:And as they keep playing you will just bombard them with ads.
E030_mixdown:And those ads will make us money.
E030_mixdown:Okay.
E030_mixdown:What makes sense?
E030_mixdown:I personally don't recommend anybody to play any mobile games.
E030_mixdown:Some mobile games are nicer like 2Dots is a fairly nice game I think.
E030_mixdown:During the whole time I played that game as far as I can tell it's not directed to stupid people.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, it's more like making me feel dumb.
E030_mixdown:But mobile games are hard.
E030_mixdown:Mobile games use all kind of skinner box tactics.
E030_mixdown:Like all games do this.
E030_mixdown:But mobile games, with the mobile games you have this race to the bottom where each company is trying to overtake the other one in terms of ethically questionable market practices.
E030_mixdown:I mean...
E030_mixdown:And all of this is a part of that.
E030_mixdown:They are trying to make the game look more appealing to a North American idiot.
E030_mixdown:That's not the... is this a conclusion? We have a conclusion?
E030_mixdown:I don't want to believe that North Americans are idiots.
E030_mixdown:And I am very happy that mobile game market, especially for the stupid hunting games is collapsing.
E030_mixdown:But in many ways I have heard people who do these...
E030_mixdown:I haven't been able to talk to a large number of publishers.
E030_mixdown:The plurality of people I talk with were developers.
E030_mixdown:And most of them consider their games as drugs marketed to, like I said, North American idiots.
E030_mixdown:Or kids.
E030_mixdown:Like they don't think they are producing a computer game or they don't think they are producing a rich experience.
E030_mixdown:They think they are producing a version of heroin.
E030_mixdown:If I need to correct you, they are not making these games for kids because if they are marketing these games to kids, they can't have ads on the app store.
E030_mixdown:So these are for mid-age people.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, they are... like old people are a popular audience, 40s, half-wives are popular because half-wives have a lot of free time.
E030_mixdown:So they can play these games.
E030_mixdown:In pandemics, this hypercasual market boomed because there were a lot of people with a lot of free time.
E030_mixdown:And they wanted to hunt that free time.
E030_mixdown:And now that people can go out and sit in parks again.
E030_mixdown:They are struggling.
E030_mixdown:And what was I going to say?
E030_mixdown:The only time you want to play those games?
E030_mixdown:Mobile game marketing is trying to get to a North American idiot who will play the game all day.
E030_mixdown:And watch ads or maybe purchase, make a large number of in-app transactions.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, they even have a term for that.
E030_mixdown:Vale.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:I think we can cut it there.
E030_mixdown:It's not a very nice... like I usually try to...
E030_mixdown:I am in general, even though Binelli is going to accuse me of lying.
E030_mixdown:In general, I am an optimistic person.
E030_mixdown:I have...
E030_mixdown:No, you are more optimistic than me.
E030_mixdown:I am not like...
E030_mixdown:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are.
E030_mixdown:Without a doubt.
E030_mixdown:I generally have a positive opinion on where the society is going and what technology brings to our lives.
E030_mixdown:I generally have a positive attitude on this.
E030_mixdown:But for mobile games in particular, I am very pessimistic.
E030_mixdown:I mean, mobile games just genuinely make me question sometimes what is a game anymore?
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Like I said, they are more similar to heroin than card games.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, it's like...
E030_mixdown:Especially the idle ones.
E030_mixdown:I remember what I wanted to say.
E030_mixdown:Elif, actually in App Store they probably wouldn't be very active because Apple made some changes that crippled their ability to track player behavior.
E030_mixdown:Because these games are purpose designed to keep players engaged and keep players feeling like they are smart.
E030_mixdown:It is important for them to know how long people spend time on each level, how long they spend between movements.
E030_mixdown:By the way, this is the reason why level games with levels are more popular because level activity is easier to track than infinite games.
E030_mixdown:When an infinitely playable game becomes popular, they become a game with levels because of this.
E030_mixdown:Apple makes this difficult.
E030_mixdown:They have certain countermeasures for tracking player activity.
E030_mixdown:Facebook is a more popular service for these activities because Facebook trackers can really show to your bones.
E030_mixdown:Like they can x-ray your player behavior with Facebook tracking tools.
E030_mixdown:And obviously who uses Facebook? Middle-aged people.
E030_mixdown:They are not even like "Middle-aged people will be excellent. Middle-aged people are more targetable for mobile games."
E030_mixdown:So they market towards them.
E030_mixdown:It's a very circular thing.
E030_mixdown:That's why you see more game ads on your games than other ads that would presumably pull the money from outside to the sector.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:Because you aren't the people they are trying to get the money out of. Squeeze the money out of.
E030_mixdown:You are just trying to have fun.
E030_mixdown:Remember our moral for the last episode was this isn't targeted towards you, this whole situation.
E030_mixdown:You aren't the person in mind when this happens.
E030_mixdown:Similarly in mobile games, you aren't the person in mind.
E030_mixdown:Yeah.
E030_mixdown:In mobile games, you are just window dressing for the actual person they are trying to hunt.
E030_mixdown:Who?
E030_mixdown:Thank you for listening to this episode.
E030_mixdown:If you want to talk about more of this with us and tell us how wrong we are and how you are not on it.
E030_mixdown:You know what we have been for the last 20 episodes or so?
E030_mixdown:We have been marketing. Come and tell us how wrong we are.
E030_mixdown:And nobody comes. Maybe we should like come and agree with us on things.
E030_mixdown:Come and say we are right about this.
E030_mixdown:Yes. You can find the links to our social media pages on the description part of your favorite podcast player.
E030_mixdown:And you can also search for us in conclusion or in conclusion podcast.
E030_mixdown:We might come up on the search.
E030_mixdown:Just make sure you write in conclusion without the space.
E030_mixdown:I know this is a bit different than the last episodes and the sequences, but why not?
E030_mixdown:Yeah, because like...
E030_mixdown:Hope to us.
E030_mixdown:Yeah, if you made it so far, if you have listened to us for about one hour, maybe this episode will be slightly longer.
E030_mixdown:If you stayed with us up to this point, you will probably excuse us for being a bit silly with our ending.
E030_mixdown:So yeah, love to everyone.