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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
MLS, Division One, those are two destinations
most family hear about talk about when they start thinking about
the pathway in American soccer, at least in our case.
But there may be opportunities inside the system that a lot
of us just don't realize and we should be asking those questions
The first answer to a question I've never asked is USL.
Because while everyone debates youth academies in college soccer, professional
clubs are expanding across the country in multiple tiers,
New teams, new cities, new environments
where players are learning what the professional game actually demands.
Our guest was Coach Matt Poland from FC Naples,
a brand new, get it, brand new professional
club entering the USL at USL League One
Terms I never heard before or understood.
He's helping build a club from the ground up, working
at that level where young players begin to experience
what a professional game is all about.
What that environment looks like, how players adjust when
they step into professionals locker room and how leagues like USL
might shape the future of the American pathway.
And now Coach mentioned how he hated when people are late, so let's get into it.
This is chasing the game U have soccer in America
Liron: coach, welcome to chasing the Game.
so happy to have you here.
This is our first official,
uh, USil nterview.
So we are incredibly excited and,
um, and also we can't wait to
hear, what led you to becoming the
sporting director at, FC Naples?
Coach Matt: Yeah.
Like most Americans, played some
club soccer, went to college,
went to a small school in
Indiana called Taylor University.
a soccer school.
My dad was on the board of trustees.
said, if you wanna figure out
college and pay for it, go somewhere
else, or you can go to Taylor.
And I said, Taylor's pretty good.
my, four years we were quite good.
We got, up to 12th in the country,
in NIA and the assistant coach
for three of my years is the head
coach at the new USL Club, Boise.
And the two assistants at the club
are two of my college teammates.
One of 'em was actually my roommate.
So we have four coaches from a
small school in Indiana in one year
that, all are coaching in USL in the
professional ranks, which is cool.
But went there for four years, got scouted
by a group from Chicago called Bridges.
To the pros, They would go to Scandinavia
every summer, play against professional
teams and try to get American guys signed.
then there wasn't as many opportunities
to play professionally here in the States.
The, USL wasn't really what it is today.
there was no MLS next pro
or anything like that.
So a lot of us Americans coming
outta college, if we weren't
drafted, went to Scandinavia.
It was easy to get work
visas at the time to play.
So ended up going over there.
played in Finland and
Sweden for four years.
had a, season career ending injury.
I tore my ACL, both meniscus,
dislocated my knee fractured cap, got
my foot just caught in the ground.
And, yeah, playing was done.
And, the team that I was playing
for actually took a crazy risk
and hired me as a head coach with
almost zero coaching experience.
Brought in an assistant coach that had a
lot of experience to help guide me and in
January I was leading preseason with guys
that were my teammates the year before.
So it was crazy.
Uh, I stayed there for two years.
I was still under contract, but with
COVID things became really difficult to
get over there with visas and everything
Uh, during that time
I was back in Florida.
Marco Island is home base for me and
there's a new club called Chicago
House AC that started that was in
Nisa, under CJ Brown head coach at
the time, a Chicago fire legend.
And we went there as an
assistant for him for a year.
club, like a lot of smaller.
Brand new pro clubs.
hard to make the financials So the
club dropped to an amateur rank.
CJ Brown left to go to the fire as an
assistant coach at the time, and I stayed
as the, head coach and technical director.
had a lot of success in the amateur ranks.
qualified for the US Open
Cup as an amateur team.
ended up defeating a USL one
team, coming back down two zero.
And we won three, two in overtime.
And then we became one of only nine
amateur clubs to have face, MLS side.
So we played against the Chicago fire.
So I coached against CJ in an
official match at, it was crazy.
We had, had a center back who's
18, who has prom the next week,
And he's defending breaker on $2 million.
Like it was just, uh, unreal.
And, uh, we didn't sit back,
we didn't just park the bus.
We ended up losing three zero.
they played all first team guys and,
we, had three or four really dangerous
chances that we didn't capitalize on.
So for an amateur group going against
an MLS side, really proud of them.
through that FC Naples
announced a brand new team.
I was down here, They had a welcome party.
So I literally just went up to the CEO
at the field for their welcome party.
And I was like, Hey,
you guys need a coach.
I'm a coach that already lives here.
Let's, figure out a way to make this work.
And, that's literally how it happened.
Liron: You know what I love is that,
shows it's the true heart of a footballer,
is that memory of the small details
of a certain game where you see it a
certain way, you know, we didn't really
park the bus but we played really well.
And you remember the score
and you remember how it goes.
And it, this idea of culture
that we talk about all the time
and, does it really exist here?
And I can just hear it in you, the love,
for soccer and it's, it's, it's wonderful.
Matt: Hey, coach.
So launching a professional
club is something very few
people get a chance to do.
lot of our focus is on the
youth side development pathways.
When you set out to launch this
professional club, what was the
conversation around how important
the youth side is to you?
You have a grassroots type of
club at the moment, but what does
that look like in the future?
How do those two things come
together and the importance of them?
Coach Matt: each club is gonna have,
a different view or a different,
connection with the community.
What space are you filling?
us specifically in, with COVID there's
a lot of people that move to Naples.
The population surged in
the last five, six years.
it was always known as a
retirement or vacation place.
And the number of full-time
residents has just exploded.
And, what is there to do, right?
What it, what is it to
do outside of, the beach?
And, there wasn't, wasn't
Matt: you could, you could, you could
started a professional pickle club
Coach Matt: Which we have the National
Pickleball Championships in Naples,
Matt: there.
Coach Matt: we have that.
Right.
But but you had a, space that
there was a need from a community
of, that identifying factor.
you saw it in different ways, There's
Great Wolf Lodge just opened up right
next to our stadium because that's a need
when a community has a lot of young kids
and a waterpark and all these things,
And so for us it was they had a
beautiful complex, already created,
the county built, $150 million
complex with a 5,000 person stadium,
eight auxiliary fields, outdoor
gym, walking parks, all this stuff.
And it was sitting empty outside
of the tournaments they were using.
So you have a stadium
for a pro team biggest.
Hurdle is finding a stadium
to, be a full-time resident.
And, we were able to,
get a deal done there.
And then, with all this youth
coming in and youth soccer, it was
like, Hey, what's the pathway for
a youth soccer player in this area?
Where do you go?
What's that?
roadmap look like?
How can, how can you know a coach,
tell a kid at five you can be a pro?
If the closest professional team is two
and a half hours away, how does that look?
How do they get seen?
How do they dream?
And so for us, I think it does two things.
One, it gives that supporting factor
from the community, something that we
can all rally behind because a lot of
us are originally from somewhere else
and have an identity of, the Bears
fan, the Giants fan, the Jets fan,
but we can all rally behind the crest
that is FC Naples that unifies us.
And then really important is
for the youth in the community.
Gives them something to work towards
and, dream about achieving one day.
Liron: You're, you're building
a club from the ground up.
But what comes next?
Is it style of play?
Is it, a roster?
Is it the academy structure?
help us understand what's
behind building a team?
It, it almost Sounds of Science Fiction.
Matt: Liron, you forgot the budget..
Liron: Well, let's assume
they have a budget, otherwise
they, they wouldn't be here.
Right.
And these.
Coach Matt: Yeah.
You know, I, I think there's a
lot of different ways to do it.
felt very blessed going into the position.
did go into one, I'd been with Chicago
House, which was a brand new professional
team, and the CEO and President of
Chicago House is a guy named Peter Wilt.
he's won I think four US
Open cups with Chicago Fire.
the one that gave Bob Bradley
his first head coaching job.
And then he since then has
started the Chicago Red Stars,
for Madison Minnesota United.
He turned professional.
So I think it's in total he is had a
hand in 10 different professional teams.
I had him as a resource of how do you
create things the right way my side.
he seen different places, different
communities, different environments,
different coaches, and he was
really good in, leading advice.
me, what I did is I knew
the league well already.
I'd been watching USL one for the
last two or three years before taking
this job very closely because that
was the next step in my career path.
So I had a lot of notes on players already
in the league, those type of things.
And I identified not just
players, but three profiles of
how we were gonna build our team.
first one was veterans.
You need good veterans that
manage the locker room, have
experience and are really good at
speaking truth to younger players.
Then you need your guys that
are in the league can go out on
a Saturday and get you points.
They know the travel, they know the refs,
they know the opponents, and they just
know what it takes to get a job done.
And then final, it's where are
those potential high developed young
players that we can, influence and.
Move them on to higher levels.
one of the biggest things that our
club wants to be known for is a
stepping stone to the next level.
So we don't wanna just find a
bunch of 28 year olds in their
prime, have them compete for a
year or two, and then retire.
We wanna go out, find the, 21, 20
3-year-old that's just out of college.
we take them, develop them and move them
into USL championship or MLS, So, for
example, our, backup goalie this year
number two is an 18-year-old that just
got back from playing with the Jamaican U
20, team, qualified for for this summer.
So we want to be always going and
scouting these young players that have
a lot of high potential, get them into
our environment with our older veteran
players, and then let them perform
and move them onto the next stage.
Matt: I'm, curious, as MLS has evolved as
a professional league and the designated
players, those salaries are, fairly high.
The rest of the league is catching
up slowly, but catching up.
How do you think about the opportunity
for a 15 or 16-year-old where those kids,
aside from what Michael Bradley is now
doing at Red Bulls, where he is starting
three 17-year-old players, I believe,
which is incredible, and there's a few
others scattered throughout the league,
but how do you think about providing
opportunities for those types of kids,
owning their rights, developing them,
and then potentially moving them on also.
and I've heard that USL looks at that
as an opportunity to potentially find
those younger kids, give them those
opportunities, and then move them on and,
develop and make some money doing it.
Coach Matt: I think where USL really
sits in, the space of developing,
if we're talking about, maybe it's
a national team player that's at
their youth level, I think the MLS
is a great pathway for identifying.
You have amazing coaches.
the struggle.
the gap between an MLS Next Pro team
and a first team Pro environment.
You have 15, 16 all the way
to maybe 24, 25 year olds.
it's much more about
development than winning.
What you get in USL is you get grown men
that have to win to put food on their
table, and so you get the, realism of
what professional sports looks like.
And so I think there's a lot of ways that,
loaning these younger players out to,
hey, this is a professional environment.
These are grown men that you're
gonna have to compete against
and the pressure's on to win.
people are losing their jobs, loaning
them for five months, then bringing
'em back into that MLS space with
the understanding the difference of
what academy is from professional.
And I think some of those younger players
are gonna be much more ready for finding
moments to, play on the first team and,
understand the responsibility that it
carries playing professional minutes.
Liron: so he help me out.
'cause I really, I'm, obviously, I'm,
I'm learning as I go, but I I know the
pyramid, the, the US soccer pyramid.
So is would a a u USS L one team or a
pro team, would that be an equivalent,
let's say in England of a second or
third division team where you would have
the players that eventually, hopefully
when you say move up, they would move
up to second or Premier League team?
Or is that really its own universe?
Coach Matt: So right now in the US it's
a little bit tricky because we have
multiple pro leagues at the same tier.
USL one and MLS next pro are both
third division professional soccer.
Then you have USL championship as the
second tier of professional soccer.
And then the MLS as the first tier.
And what USL has announced
is a plan to start a division
one in the next couple years.
That would be at the same tier as MLS,
obviously with different different
rules and regulations, but they would
both be viewed by US Soccer, the
Federation as Division one status.
Matt: promotion relegation within USL,
being, the biggest differentiator.
three leagues, three tiers within
one league with promotion relegation,
Liron: this is probably the
first interview that, uh,
I'll come out knowing less.
Matt: that's.
Liron: Yeah.
Yeah.
It's impossible.
And, uh, guess what?
It's actually happening live right now.
Wow.
It's unbelievable.
Um, so you, you're build,
you're building a club and,
now youth is an important part.
I mean, especially we have,
kids in, youth academies.
We, deal a lot with, youth soccer here,
is this an important part of a USL team?
Coach Matt: Yeah.
For us, uh, we were specific in, starting
out, just as a, men's first team, we
didn't wanna be a mile wide and inch deep.
some clubs go in right away, build
the academy system, all of that.
For us, there was already some really
good academies in town and we decided
instead to just bring them in and partner
with them, and then just be that, first
team option that wasn't already in
the community that we're playing in.
Um, and so for us we're always
looking for academy players.
So in USL, you're allowed two
academy players on a game day roster.
the 18 professional players.
So a normal, roster you
can have 18 players on.
If you have academy players, you can
have then up to 20 because they wanna
encourage opportunities to play academy
players if it presents itself in the game.
we quickly signed a few academy
players from the local area that were
playing for some local different clubs.
And even this year we're, have probably
seven or eight guys under the age of
21 that are in training with us almost
every week, that we're trying to develop.
We'll eventually put some of those guys
on academy contracts and the plan then
will, one or two of those guys will put on
pro contracts over the next year or two.
So our youngest guy training right now
is 16 and our oldest professional is 35.
So he is over
twice his
age.
It's crazy.
It's
Liron: Wow.
A real soccer team.
Matt: What, um, what's been the
biggest surprise for you in building
this out from the ground up.
Coach Matt: Yeah, I think in terms
of, two different thoughts on it in
terms of the team and then in terms
of the, sporting side the sporting
side, is when you are signing players
or bringing here, it was just me
calling these agents and then talking
to these players and it's, wild.
Anyone signs with a new team it's
literally like, Hey, I'm just gonna
say a bunch of words of what I think
it will be with no evidence that this
team can do everything I'm promising.
Come here and, let's make it happen.
Right.
It's, it's such a crazy thing
if you think about it like, Hey,
come trust your career in a team
that's never existed and we just.
created a logo six months ago, but
put your whole trust in us, So I
think that part's absolutely crazy.
the player side, what's the biggest
challenge, is you bring 23 guys
in and you can have the best human
beings in the world, but you ask
them, what does culture look like?
And they will have 23 different answers.
And there's not that core group that
when you bring new players in that
everybody rallies behind and says,
oh, this is the culture of this club.
Everybody has to be willing to see it
as this new identity that's different
from the club they were at last time.
college, they experienced all that.
And that was, it's a really hard thing
in a first year professional team is
getting 21 to 27-year-old men to all
be willing to, be flexible in how
they view what a culture should be,
Liron: Are you the culture coach?
Coach Matt: I think ultimately, the
head coach and sporting director,
it is a lot of my vision of what the
culture should be or shouldn't be.
think you have to do that without
an ego of my way or the highway.
I think was really good advice, when I
start as a coach is know what the city
is and the culture has to reflect that.
And so for Naples, Naples is extremely,
successful people, That move here.
And so for me, one of our core
elements is a lot of these
people might not be soccer snobs.
So tactics might not be what, they
care about most, what do they care
about most effort and hard work
because they had to work extremely
hard and they can smell BS hard work.
And so we need to make sure
when we represent the club.
we're out there on the field, that we
are showing that effort and hard work,
or else they won't care because they
might not know what formation we're in.
They might have come to 20 games
last year and not know what a
soccer formation is, but they can
definitely tell when a guy isn't
giving a hundred percent on the field.
And so there's a, mixture of my
vision of culture, and then also
what the community calls for of
what that culture needs to be.
As well as, bring in the guys and, the
leaders, the veterans on the team, and
helping them with their experiences of
different places, We have players that
have played in the English championship,
they've played at some really high levels.
Let's use their experiences of really
high functioning elite locker rooms
and hear what the cultures were there
and see if there's little pieces we
can add in to make our culture better.
Liron: Matt, wasn't that like we
talked about that, I think we talked
about it with, with Ben Olsen.
I think you brought it up about
the profile of the American player
or of let's say the 90s or 2000,
was this idea of grit hard work.
Right?
Matt: Yeah, I think a part of that
conversation was, it feels like while
our, technical ability and tactical
understanding, and the number of
players we have playing overseas
has increased fairly dramatically.
We somehow have lost the identity
of what the American player is.
And unless you think differently,
but when I think of the national
team, I, struggle to figure out
what the identity of that team is.
I hope they're incredibly successful
and figure out what their identity
is at the World Cup this summer.
Let's hope.
in general, I think the American player
has lost that identity over time.
And then I guess just on top of that.
I when you mentioned a 30 5-year-old,
a 16-year-old, and then guys
from the English championship.
I would think one of the most challenging
things, especially when you're managing
a professional roster is that you have
guys who are maybe 21 or 22 who are
pushing to get to MLS or pushing to
get to Europe or whatever it may be.
And then you've got guys at the end of
their career are just trying to hold on
and wanna play professionally and make
money, make whatever money they can.
And then you've got these 16 year
olds who are literally just at the
beginning, aren't even quite pros yet.
How do you think about that from
a, putting the best 11 out there,
thinking about what, who the key
players need to be off of the bench?
'cause they all have
different agendas to a degree.
I mean, of course winning should be
the first one, but ultimately this
is a stepping stone for many of them.
Coach Matt: Each player's gonna have a
different reason of why they're there.
Each player's gonna have a different goal
personally of what the season looks like.
how do you have team identities of what
our goals are gonna be as a team that
don't conflict with what individual
goals could be so they can express
their individual goals, but it has to be
inside of what's best for the collective.
And that's a really challenging thing
because obviously as humans in general,
not even talking about my team, but
just humans in general, we tend to
be selfish and think, me, me, me.
And in a team sport of 11, having 23
signed guys, knowing majority of the guys
over half the guys won't start every game.
So you have to be very selective.
Who you bring in, especially
the older veterans.
if they're just trying to keep playing
pro and they don't really have an interest
in being a good professional, still doing
things the right way, helping develop
the next young player, then they don't
fit our profile of an older player.
And so we were very selective in those
veteran roles because they can influence
so many of the players below them.
They have the biggest stronghold in
the locker room and a 16-year-old
is gonna look up to the guy that has
13 years of professional experience.
'cause he goes, that's only three
more years than I've been living.
So, you know, it's, it's
it's very tricky though.
Right.
Um, and, and I think what's really
the biggest thing that I look at
is, for me as a, manager, it's
managing the players off the field.
More than the tactical on the field.
Tactics are probably 20%.
The social of each of those players in
the collective is probably 80% of the job.
Liron: So just back for the,
to the parents a little bit.
What, do you tell that 17, 18-year-old
American kid who's coming into play and
all of a sudden a variety of ages where
they're used to playing their own age,
and all of a sudden they're thrown into
this absolutely melting pot of just chaos?
Coach Matt: Yeah.
Usually what I find is, uh, don't
say much the first couple days.
The older guys are nice to 'em
'cause they're just figuring it out.
Two, three days in they mess up
a, possession drill or something.
And the players will usually be the
first one to let the player know.
they have no fear in telling
this 16-year-old if he is,
screwing up the activity.
And what you see a lot with a young
player is they come in and the first
couple days they're here, then they need
to go through a regression where they're
gonna drop, drop, drop, drop, drop.
Because now the pressure's there, the
guys are holding them to a standard.
starting to get in their own
mind because they're scared of
the guy that's stronger, faster
physical, and they have to struggle.
And then after that, it's like
a, rubber band being stretched
as it gets pulled down.
Then usually over the course of probably
a month is when they start to then
accelerate their growth and you start
to see them develop at that next level.
Um, we do something often where
we bring a guy in for a couple
weeks, they struggle, then we have
him go back to their environment.
With that newfound knowledge, and
now they're, they're with their
other 16 year olds and the game
feels slow for them there because
of what they've just experienced.
They gain a little bit more confidence
and then after a couple weeks we'll
bring 'em back into the environment.
And then you can usually
see growth in that as well.
Liron: Do you find that with the,
younger players, that there's sense
of being cuddled and, not being
ready for the true pro environment?
Coach Matt: Yeah.
You know, I think everybody looks
at the generation below him and
goes, oh, when I was that age, we
Liron: Oh, I was never like that.
Geez,
Coach Matt: You know?
Um, but, but I do think a, as a whole.
as we get more technical, do we
lose our identity in, the grit,
We had probably, some coaches that,
shouldn't have been speaking the way
they were to players and demeaning
them and it wasn't beneficial to 'em.
And so then the pendulum has, swung
the other way to make sure that,
we're not doing those things and
putting the right safeguards in.
And part of that process, okay,
we, put the safeguards in, but
how do we still demand, certain
levels out of these players?
And I think that's, just in society,
that's probably something that, is
seen and struggled with a little
bit is, how do we push players?
Not in a negative way, not that's hurting
their mental health, but they still
need to be able to hear hard truths
and need to be challenged in that.
I think the, best thing for
young players to play outside of
their age group, I think playing
constantly just with kids your age.
And then as you said, you get into
college and now suddenly It could be
five, six years older than you and,
now you're an 18-year-old that's never
played more than a year difference in age
playing against a 23-year-old.
And that's a grown man now.
And it would be so much better.
Like when I grew up as a kid, I
played up on my brother's team.
That was two years older.. And so I had
to get a certain level of grittiness
because just genetically, they were all
faster, stronger, and bigger than me.
And so I had to get more heart to just
fight them because I was the smallest guy
Liron: Yeah.
I mean, when, when I play with
my son, he finds it comic relief,
but I I see what you're saying.
I, I get it.
This is a little bit different.
Got it.
Check.
So coddled.
Matt: Well, that's like he, he's
not, he's not talking about bringing
senior citizens into play here.
So,
Liron: It doesn't sound like it.
Coach Matt: But, again,
that's the mentality.
The mentality is important, these players.
you'll, always have somebody no matter
what level that is, faster than you.
You'll always have someone that's
better technically than you.
You'll have somebody
that's stronger than you.
And so to me, mentality is everything.
I think that's, and us.
Soccer is like that mentality, right?
When we'd beat Spain back in the day,
We didn't have the, the better players
playing in higher leagues, but it
was like, no, the collective group
and our mentality of never giving up
was what was gonna lead to success.
Liron: I,
Matt: I'm with you,
Liron: I have goosebumps right now.
I, uh,
Matt: coach, you, you mentioned part,
don't, don't put him
in, coach.
Liron: put me in, coach.
Come on,
Coach Matt: we, five minutes, 10 minutes?
How many
Liron: Put whatever you
need, coach.
I am in..
Matt: you mentioned partnerships
with the youth academies.
I'm curious what that looks like.
Is it, MLS next clubs?
Is it ECNL clubs?
And aside from it being.
Another pathway that they can talk about
to help bring players into their own
academies and then eventually have that
pathway to pro is what's the incentive
for them to pass kids along to Naples fc.
Coach Matt: think it's
a few different things.
One, as you said, they can talk about
their player that came through their, had
one kid that came through their academy
signed an academy contract with us.
And so I'm sure when they go
out recruiting players to come
to them, it's, Hey, we are a
pipeline to a professional team.
again, most kids.
When they're younger, have some
sort of dream and desire of
playing professional soccer.
So anytime there's a direct route, I,
think that probably encourages them.
think, the other aspect is with these
clubs is what do you do with the
player after they graduate high school?
most don't even have summer teams.
So when a kid finishes high school
and if they go to college and
play, they're no longer anything
to do with that club because there
is no other pathway with them.
A lot of them don't have USL
two or NPSL or UPSL teams.
And so again, we're, not
trying to compete with them.
It's like, Hey, send us your
good players that are maxed out.
level of development, bring them in and
we'll take them the next step of the way.
And then that's the same with what
we're doing, As soon as they max
out USL one, Our striker this past
year came to us second in the league
in goals, and he ended up being
sold to a USL championship team.
I think there's a shift in soccer,
it's become so much of a, money grab
in a lot of places that everybody's
like, well, what do I get out of it?
And I think there's, a should be
more of a shift of, worry about
the kid and their development.
Liron: that's amazing.
But does for example, f so, so
this level of USL or FC Naples, I
mean, obviously you're mentioning
an enormous amount of horizontal
and vertical movement of players.
Is there a business model idea of
developing players and then selling
them off to, let's say teams abroad?
Is there such a a, a structure in place?
Coach Matt: Yeah.
So USL is, is starting to get there.
Um, they've had a few sales now over
to some, some bigger leagues in Europe.
Uh, second division in Spain
last year they had a big sale.
Uh, they had two A league one
team in England as well last year.
Uh, it's still a lot more, uh, USL to MLS
and then MLS to Europe or South America.
Um, USL.
It doesn't have quite the network
yet, maybe to have all of those
ins in, in different places,
but it's definitely growing.
Uh, the number of players being
sold upwards though has increased
dramatically, uh, the last few
years, which is great to see.
And so I think as a, as a league, um,
the league itself is starting to also
realize like, Hey, this is another really
good way to, to bring money in, right?
Well, that's real money to put
towards your roster in the next year.
Liron: Yeah, no, it's a, it's a great
idea 'cause right now everything
seems so narrow, you go to college
or you could play it at MLS Club,
which is chances are minuscule.
It's, it's a pretty exciting
prospect to think for, for parents
too, that there's this other path
out there for young players also
develop and, and move forward.
So that's why this is such
an important conversation.
Coach Matt: and US Soccer
started to realize it as well.
There's a program now where the US
soccer national youth coaches and the
head coaches of USL meet once a month.
We're doing a six month partnership
where we, talk about youth development
because I think 8 or 9 of 40 from the
main pool of US men's soccer all played
at some point in the USL ecosystem,
and so USL is playing a part in this
development at the highest level.
And so US soccer's come in and
really try to help the coaches.
And how do you develop a young
player for the national team?
So there's, definitely a space
that USL is benefiting the,
culture of the US soccer system.
Liron: That's
Matt: That's
excellent.
I, I'm, I'm curious, uh, go back
to the, 16-year-old and then you've
got 29 year olds up to 35 year olds.
How far along a 16-year-old is now Verse.
How long, how far along a 16-year-old
was 10 years ago when you were,
in some of your, pro days.
Coach Matt: I think tactically is
probably the biggest change, And when
I was growing up, a lot of my coaches,
until I got to a certain level, never
really played or played just for fun.
And then now you have every coach
that's coaching at a youth level
had a career as a player themselves.
And so the amount of information, and
obviously tactics have changed a lot,
From the early or late nineties to the
early two thousands to now, there's
been a massive switch I remember when
I was playing high school soccer,
we were playing stopper sweeper
Matt: Yeah.
Coach Matt: in a 4, 2.
Matt: Me, by the way.
Me, me too.
But you're much, but you're
much younger than me, so that's
even, that's even scarier.
Yeah.
Coach Matt: Yeah.
And so, like, I, I don't think a
16-year-old would even know what a
stopper sweeper is in today's game.
there's Deeper understanding of
how the game should be played.
And there's been obviously a bigger
emphasis on that, just across the board,
even at the highest levels of soccer
tactics have become much more important.
Now, what you see with that is
some of the individual brilliance
being lost, It's all a machine and
not so much of these individual
players having freedom to create.
So the biggest complaint now in
professional soccer is what we
viewed as the 10s and playmakers.
That's a, dead position in professional
sports now because now everything is
much more rigid and game model built,
that we don't have space for that 10 to
float around and sit between the lines.
It just kind of have the
freedom to express themselves.
Right now, everything is locked
in and, and has to be methodical
to the team and, how you play.
So you see that, and then you see
with 16 year olds too, think the
professionalism part, they're much
better at than back in the day.
And I think that's
because of social media.
There's a easier way to see YouTube
videos of day in the life of a pro
footballer And so these 16 year olds
are exposed to the behind the scenes
much more than what, you or I were at 16
because we were lucky if we could find
a Premier League game on TV somewhere.
lucky if we had that.
Now they have, their Instagram
story every day that they can
see how these pros are living.
And so they have a better understanding,
I think, of what, it takes to be a pro.
Liron: speaking of, the younger players.
And what is a non-negotiable for
you as far as, traits when you're
looking at players, especially
Coach Matt: Yeah.
it sounds like a cop out maybe, but
it's like the effort of hard work is
one of those that's non-negotiable.
the problem is in sports, because
it's not life or death, it does
become something that's optional.
Right?
I look at my grandfather 18 years old
and he gets put on a boat to go over
to Europe and, fight against the Nazis.
Like he had to grow up quick
and he is 18 years old and if he
doesn't do what he's supposed to
do, the consequence is extreme.
We have an 18-year-old now that's
an academy player and trying to get
sometimes them to wake up and be on
time at 8:00 AM because their alarm
clock goes off at 6:30 and they have
to wake up and they're hitting snooze.
hey, you might be 18 and in society
now, we only expect this from an
18-year-old, but I know what an
18-year-old is capable of doing if
challenged and pushed and motivated.
And so it's really getting some of
those bad habits out of a player.
Another one that's really, a challenge
with a player, but so important is
communication because they live on their
phone and text messages and, that they
don't know how to look a coach in the face
and have a hard conversation conversation.
They can't call me and say, Hey
coach, my mom set up a doctor's
appointment for, me tomorrow.
I have to get it moved.
Just that alone would give half the
young players some sort of anxiety
because they've never called a coach
and had to say that on the phone.
'cause they just text it.
there's a lot of that of, getting
a, younger player Hey, call me,
have a conversation, sit down
in my office and look me in the
eyes and have to communicate
what you're thinking and feeling.
And after a while when you force 'em
to do that, you see a lot of growth.
One thing for us, I don't allow
cell phones at any of our meals.
And every single time without
doubt, there's a fight against it.
And 10, 15 minutes into the meal, they're
all talking, laughing, communicating,
sharing stories that they never would've
been if they're glued to their phone.
But every single time it's a fight
because they only know one way
and you're trying to, teach 'em
a different way in the culture.
Matt: I think that's amazing.
I mean, you talk about building culture,
how can you build culture with a bunch
of players who aren't present other
than when they're actually on the pitch?
A lot of that, communication,
bonding happens off the pitch.
And to your point, I mean, I think
that's a, real issue for, youth players,
So it's like they finish a game, they.
Get on the bus and the first
thing they do is sit there and
look at their phones instead of
talking about what just happened.
unpack the entire game, good or bad, on
the ride home, on a bus after a match.
Coach Matt: flip side technology, they
all have in our league, and the next
day they can get three minutes of every
time they touch the ball in an itemized,
defensive, aerial, passing, whatever.
So it's, everything has trade-offs
of, the pros and cons with every
tool, technology or whatever.
I think it's just really, maybe the right
word with everything is intentionality.
And when you lose intentionality
with whatever you're doing, whether
that's a, drill on the field,
whether that's communication.
If there's not intentionality,
then what, are you aiming for?
Where are you going?
What direction are you heading?
Matt: So I, think there's some amazing
youth academy coaches out there.
lot of ambitious ones, a lot of ones
who have gone through, up to their, B
up to their a license who want to become
a professional coach at some point.
What's your wisdom around that?
What does that path look like?
I mean, they can't all walk into,
launch party and say that they want
to be a coach and a sporting director.
And had real experience and it sounds
like what you did with the Chicago club
at the amateur level was incredible.
But what does that look like?
Coach Matt: think first and
foremost, there's not one pathway.
connections are everything in the game.
Um, and, and where you go
and what route you take.
You know, you can go the club route and
then use that to get into a MLS Academy
and then build your way up to the second
team and make your way to the first team.
easiest is if you have a playing
career, If you've the pro ranks, it's
a lot easier to get a job in the pros.
coaches go through the college ranks
and make a really, a powerhouse in
a Division one program, but then
use that to translate into the pros.
I, think for me, it's always
like, are you learning?
Are you growing and are
you making connections?
And usually if you do those two things,
the pathway takes care of itself
because if you're putting yourself in
an environment as a coach, where you're
being forced to learn and grow, so many
people think coaching is about teaching.
And obviously, yes, you're,
constantly teaching, but you
can only teach what you know.
First and foremost, you need
to worry about yourself.
Learning and growing think too many
coaches get comfortable and stop
that process and worry about what
can they tell others instead of
what can they continually learn?
me it's like I have mentors that
national team, MLS whatever, and I'm
calling them after games looking for
advice, Hey, you've experienced this,
you've been a coach for 25 years.
What did you do when, this sort
of thing happened in your team?
And, it's the humility to understand you
don't know everything and then ask why.
And if you start to think
of things as why, why?
And and that's a big issue
with young players today.
We joystick as coaches, a
lot of coaches, joystick.
We don't make the player
ever ask why say press.
Why are we pressing in that moment?
If the player doesn't understand,
he is not actually making decision.
So there's not actual any learning,
there's an action happening
because we yelled, but there's
not a deeper understanding because
they don't understand the why.
as a coach, it's like, okay, am I,
learning If I'm learning, My players will
usually learn and grow as well, which
ultimately people wanna see success.
Liron: But at, levels that you're
dealing with, almost the why is
it not too late to, teach the why?
That's something that should happen
in the early stages of academy and
youth development, or not necessarily.
Coach Matt: Yeah.
I think at a certain age, maybe
there's exceptions to it, which
is why it's a rule, but you can't
put in what somebody doesn't have.
Liron: Mm-hmm.
Coach Matt: And that's not just soccer.
I think that's just life.
And now there's exceptions.
But I think it has to be a very
critical moment that anybody in
life at an older age wants to
change and has to be so motivated.
And most people, it doesn't
become that at a certain age.
I think obviously younger age is better.
And I personally think we have all these
coaches that aspire to be professional
coaches, and it's hard to coach youth
because you have to coach multiple teams
to be able to make it work financially
if you wanna be a full-time coach,
You can't coach one U 12 team
and financially make the same
as coaching a professional team.
And I wish that wasn't the case
because I think we as a. Country.
If we put all of our best coaches at U 12,
13, 14, we're probably really developing
these players at the critical moments of
their life and where they're still open
to development at a much different level.
Matt: I mean, I don't know if you
had a chance to list the episode
where we hit on Evan Rosenthal.
Evan is the, um, is the, is one of
the founders and is the president
of a, a kind of a, a cult club
in the New York City area called
Manhattan Kickers So they started
like five year olds go through U 12.
But one of the things he talked
about is that he has a consistent
group of coaches who know that those
age groups exceptionally well, and
they know how much you can improve.
You can improve a hundred percent in
a year when you're seven years old.
You know, you get to 14 or 15 or
16 years old, you're improving
in these tiny little increments.
Right?
And those ages where the development
is happening, you know, at a, such
a, such an incredible rate, doesn't
get the attention it deserves.
Coach Matt: Yeah, no, ab absolutely right.
ultimately those are such important
years and you have some clubs where
you have a coach that just has a heart
for that age group and usually that
club, it's like, wow, those ages,
those kids are so much better than
the average club at that age, because
that coach is just passionate and is.
happy being in that age
group working with that.
But more often than not, the coaches views
higher age, higher level as more success.
And so we climb this ladder trying
to move up in the ages to, in
our mind what we view as success,
Liron: at the younger ages, if there's
a tangible that you can look at and say.
I mean, except for, of course,
incredible talents, which you gotta have.
But are there, is there a tangible
where you go, okay, this kid has
what it takes to be a pro and let's
say at age 14, 15, 16 is it just
really comes down to hard work.
be more than that, right?
Coach Matt: I mean, obviously.
a lot of factors, in in the modern game.
there's a, bigger part of the
genetic, your athleticism and if
you're an athlete or not, Again, you
look at the Premier League 20 years
ago, and there were guys that maybe
weren't as athletic, but incredible
on the ball that found to play now,
The bare minimum in the Premier League
is everyone's a elite athlete and,
so it's, changes with some of that
things you can control or not, or what
you have is these players that are very
technical, very elite on that, but they
never make it to that top tier when
they make it to the professional level,
because they just weren't athletic enough.
But they're still a pro.
They just aren't maybe in the MLS
because they just can't move at that
speed and accelerate at that speed.
What I, don't think though, it's like a,
magic eight ball with a 16-year-old to be
able to say Hey, he'll make it pro or not.
one of the biggest things is are they
mentally gonna enjoy the grind, which
is 16 to 23 when they become a pro?
And are they gonna still have
the love for the game and be
okay sacrificing everything else
in their life for this goal?
And that gets really hard,
starts in high school.
You don't get to travel on spring break.
Then in the summers you are just playing
soccer and traveling to tournaments.
And then in college it's like,
Hey, you're sacrificing this, this,
and this of your college experience
just for this goal, understanding
that only 1% is gonna make it.
And you see a lot of people
drop, so it's not even like 16.
Can you be a pro or not?
It's like, do you have the ambition?
Will you maintain that ambition
over the next four years?
Liron: Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So strong.
Matt: When you put it that way.
Coach Matt: Well, but
again, that's, that's why,
Liron: Oh
boy.
Coach Matt: that's why I think
the mentality's so important
Matt: no, you're, you're,
you're a hundred percent right.
Coach Matt: right if, if you, if you
look at the average player in the average
game, the passes they make, there's a
million amateur players that can make
those passes, Besides like Mesi, 85% of
what he does on the field is not crazy.
Now, messy, the last 15% that he does
is the best in the world, which makes
him elite, But more often than not,
he gets the ball, he plays one, two,
touch, and the ball just keeps moving.
And so there's a lot of guys that watch.
The top level and they go, oh, I
could play, I can make that pass.
I could do it.
And don't see that 15% of that
special that that player has,
and they're not willing to work
hard to become elite at that.
And their mentality is like, oh,
I can, I can do the simple part
of it, so I should be a pro.
And they're not willing to
sacrifice all those things.
When I graduated college, I think
I missed like 24 of my friends'
weddings because I had games.
I couldn't go.
Christmas, I went home for two
days because I had to train
because I was trying to get my
first professional contract.
And a lot of people, when it comes
down to it, wanna sacrifice it, right?
And I'm not saying it's right or
wrong, but if you wanna be a pro
you have to be willing to sacrifice
Liron: what it takes.
It's what,
literally
Coach Matt: what it
takes it.
you know, so many things
we talk about are.
The theoretical tactics and, oh, if I
just work on my first touch and all,
and all those things are important.
Uh, but when I think of parents
and the young players, it's
like, what do they need most?
And again, if they have the right
mentality, if they have the work,
right, work ethic, like the skills
will come by the work, right?
But nothing, the foundation that
nobody sees, that concrete base
layer, that work ethic, that will
not quit, that will not be broken.
That I will do that because you will
always find someone more skilled
than you and more talented in life.
And so if the base is that, then at
some point, somebody else, unless
you're Usain Bolt, somebody else
will be faster than you eventually.
And one, when that happens, what
do you have to fall back on?
And if you have that, I will not
quit mentality, you always have that
to fall back on and eventually the
other guy probably gets more tired
or he is heard no more times than
you and eventually he will quit.
And part of the name of the game
of making it professional is just
being able to outlast the other guys.
Matt: We'll leave you with one last story.
Uh, we interviewed this
guy, uh, Peguy Luyindula.
Peguy played like seven years
at PSG, played at Marsaille.
Uh, he finished his career at Red Bull.
He is best friends with, uh, with
Thierry Henry he mentioned how the, his
first call up to the French national
team, he was like a U 17 or U 18 player
He said he looked at the roster and
it every player was at, was already
at PSG or Arsenal or Man U, and he was
like still at his local club, right?
And he said he got on the pitch and
he quickly realized like, actually I
can compete with these guys very well.
And then he saw Nicolas Anelka
and he said, he's just different.
I'll never be him.
none of us are ever gonna be him.
Athletically, physically,
all of it combined, he said.
But for me that was that moment to
like, there's there's different tiers
to this even at the elite level.
And I need to figure out what I can do
with what I have basically, because it's
not that, and I can't expect it to be
that, regardless of how hard I work.
Coach Matt: one of one of my
coaches, said that, same thing.
He goes, there's three
artists on the field.
The other guy's whole job is to
work ridiculously hard, win the
ball, play them simple passes and
let the artist paint the picture.
And he goes, every player, every young
player wants to be the artist, right?
You're Zlatan, you're not Messi.
If you learn to be the guy
that's just the hard worker that.
Makes the artist look good.
The artist wants to keep you
around and there's seven of those
positions on the field, so it's a
lot easier to find that position
than trying to be the one number 10.
Right.
Liron: Geez.
Listen, if you have room in
your apartment, I know, uh, two
14-year-old boys, we can ship out to
you right now, which you could, uh,
we can wrap up the podcast too.
Uh, Matt, I think goal achieved.
Matt: Yeah, I coach This was, uh, I
mean, you're an inspiration and, and it
sounds like you've been doing this for
much longer than you actually have been,
but, it sounds like those guys are gonna
benefit a great deal from being around
you and what you bring, to this club.
Coach Matt: We had our first game of
the season last night, so that was fun.
Liron: Did I hear 4,000
people in attendance?
Coach Matt: Yeah, it was just
over, I think it was 4,072,
so it was, it was, rocking.
a great night for some footy.
Liron: coach.
Wow.
Uh, I've got the national anthem
playing in the background, and
I am, uh, I'm, I'm ready to go.
I'm gonna do a couple pushups and I'll get
on the first flight to Naples tomorrow.
I, I realized, as we wrap up it
took me a while to like, where's
Coach's energy really coming from?
Where's this, all this
buoyancy and energy.
He doesn't have to deal with parents.
That's it.
So, so I, I got it solved.
Click.
Coach Matt: That's, that's
the secret right there.
Right?
Matt: That's the
secret.
Liron: secret.
Not hard
work or anything else.
Matt: Oh my God.
Liron: that's our next
Matt: dude.
right, man.
Liron: You are, what a
privilege.
Okay.
Coach Matt: Uh, thank you guys.
I appreciate it.
The Florida version of wow, one
thing, you know, that really stayed with me, Matt, on this is just
how coach describe what happens when young players step
into a professional environmentonment for the first time.
He says it very simply.
The speed of play is completely different.
When you walk through that locker room, you're surrounded by a player in
their 20s,
different sides,izes, different backgrounds, players fighting for contracts.
It's real, right?
Players whose career depend on their performance.
And what's interesting is that he says the first reaction from
younger players isn't always success, not
particularly surprising.
Sometimes, though, it's the opposite.
He explains that when players first experience that level, they
need to go through almost a regression
and that it's in important idea for parents because development
doesn't always look like immediate progress.
Sometimes, growth starts with struggle.
It really opens up this idea of,
first and foremost, there's not not one path,
very important for us.
And that might be the most encouraging part of this conversation,
except for what I hope would be a huge success for this club
because if the American game is creating more environments and more levels
where players can develop, that means there are more ways forward
for our young players.
Yeah, Coach Poland, you are an inspiring guest.
Really appreciate you joining us.
And to everyone listening before Matt and
I break into the national anthem, if you enjoyed this episode
share it with another soccer parent.
This means a lot.
A coach, player, trying to understand the system a little better..
Please subscribe.
Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.
And we'll see you next time.
No, it's always, always bad.
And we'll see you next time on Chasing the Game Youth Soccer in America.