Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to Funding Futures: Igniting Impact…
A podcast about the elusive world of philanthropy. We will uncover innovative and sustainable strategies through interviews with industry leaders and representatives from mission-driven organizations
Listen in to enrich your journey to a sustainable impact.
James (00:19)
When I talk to nonprofits about sustainable fundraising strategies, it always starts with high net worth individuals with major
donors because the data doesn't show anything else that works over the long term. And long term I'm not talking two, three years. I'm talking five, ten, fifteen, twenty years. Major giving is what helps to fuel growth in nonprofits.
IQ Ignited (00:46)
Today, we welcome to the show James Misner founder and owner of the Kipos Group, a fundraising consultant firm that specializes in helping small to mid-sized nonprofit organizations achieve sustainable revenue growth. James has dedicated over 20 years to the nonprofit sector, helping organizations raise hundreds of millions of dollars to fuel their missions. James describes his consulting approach as hands-on, going beyond generic strategies
working alongside clients and rolling up his sleeves to tailor solutions that fit their unique challenges. His approach is all about practical in the trenches support, ensuring organizations maximize their potential and achieve lasting impact. In this episode, we'll dive into key strategies to building a strong and healthy fundraising program, the top pitfalls to avoid as you build out your fundraising systems and team and key trends impacting fundraising in 2025.
IQ Ignited (01:44)
Now, here's James and Bria
IQ Ignited (01:48)
James, great to have dive in. Do you determine if a fundraising program is strong and healthy?
James (01:54)
Goodness Bria, it is great to be here with you and that is a fantastic first question. How do I determine if a fundraising program is healthy? I think you have to look at two things. One, you have to look at their quantitative metrics. You have to look at their data and not just on a single year basis. You have to look at their data going back five, six, seven years to really determine trends. Trends in a fundraising organization spend. Trends
in their giving, looking at different funder segments. So you have to look at that qualitative data because it tells a story. But then you have to...
listen and interview the people inside the organization to figure out what's happening. Because data can paint a picture, but listening to actual humans fills in the image for us. So that's how I determine, and I look at things like retention rate of donors. It's one of the most important metrics, I think, for any nonprofit. I look at growth, but then I look deep into each different funding segment from annual fund to monthly to
mid-level to major and see how each of them are doing to determine, is this an organization that's poised for growth or do we need to fix some things inside and keep moving?
IQ Ignited (03:10)
such an interesting perspective. I'm thinking about reviewing data from five years and I wonder how many nonprofit leaders think about going back that far, especially with, you know, most organizations there's a lot of change over five years that can happen. So I like that you take that deep dive. Another thing that's just interesting is that you talk to the people. I feel like the theme that we've had recently is consultants are, they're paid
to be therapists and then they do consulting on the side. So I do appreciate that you paint that holistic story. Is it hard to determine those trends? Thinking about nonprofit turnover, had several different persons in different positions. It be hard to determine those trends or do you still find those? Really?
James (03:53)
Not at all. If I look
at, every client that we work with gets a data sheet to fill out at the very beginning of our engagement. And it's almost like reading, you know, one of those earthquake charts, where there's the lines and the spikes, except for the spikes are like downward spikes, they're valleys. I can look at someone's data and say, hey, something happened here, something happened here, something happened there.
And then when I interview the staff, when I do focus groups with donors or board members, if it doesn't come up, I will then say, hey, tell me what happened in 2022. Because the data shows me there was something pretty seismic there.
IQ Ignited (04:18)
Hmm.
Hmm.
James (04:34)
that's
when so-and-so or that's when this happened. That's when the data can tell me pretty quickly when something's gone awry inside the organization. It can also do the inverse. It can tell you, what happened here? We hired this great new major gift officer and they've really been, you know.
know, kicking butt and taking names. you can tell in the data what's going on and the stories help you to fill in. Almost taking it from like a hazy, blurry, underwater, you know, camera photo to like crisp and clear.
IQ Ignited (05:09)
I love the crisp and clear. How common is it for the clients that you've worked with to have that holistic strategy? So you were talking about major gifts and all of the segments that go with fundraising. How common is it where they've really been able to put that much time and thought into developing each revenue stream? How do you say that in donor
James (05:29)
Yeah, I would say donor segment.
The reality is, Bria, that most of our clients are in the small and mid-sized nonprofit space. So they haven't been able to actually fully think through how to do it yet.
IQ Ignited (05:38)
Hmm.
James (05:44)
And what I see is a lot of mixing and matching, usually to the organization's detriment. When you start working with organizations that are 15, 20, 50 million in annual revenue, they have more sophisticated programs. But these mid-sized organizations, it's all just thrown in there. Sometimes if you ask, hey, have you ever segmented your donor list for emails so they get different types of emails or variable copy in the emails? No.
IQ Ignited (05:44)
Hmm.
Hmm.
James (06:13)
stares you know, back at you. Most often what I find when you dive in
IQ Ignited (06:15)
Wow.
James (06:18)
is that people are treating everybody like a small donor that's giving 50-100 bucks. Very important, but still not a ton of money there. Or they're treating everybody like a major donor that's going to give 100,000 bucks. And if you're giving $50 or $5,000 or $10,000, you need to be treated very differently than somebody getting $100,000. And so there's just a mixing and matching of strategies that don't really work.
IQ Ignited (06:23)
Mm.
Hmm.
James (06:46)
And so what we do is we come and try to help. Hey, here's what you're really good at. What your system is built for. Let's build on that and advance that because you're going to grow faster in an area that you're good at. And then let's build adjacent capabilities until you get the whole spectrum of working across different donor segments.
IQ Ignited (07:06)
such an incredible point. I think of you as an accelerant and I love how you're able to pinpoint their strengths and help them go after that. A colleague of mine, he's in the fundraising space and we've, we actually have this ongoing, I'd like to say friendly argument so far as he believes that diversification of fundraising strategies is actually a bad thing, that it stretches them too thin. I like that you're kind of, you're in the middle,
Before you hit everything, let's see what you're doing really well and focus on that and then build up the other aspects as needed.
James (07:35)
client that we've served together in the Pacific Northwest. And they have a robust, you know, two and a half decade track record of only ever doing public funding. you came in and helped them, you know, with some other public grants, which was awesome. And they needed our help in doing private fundraising. And so we looked at that and said, okay, this organization is technical. They are in my language, a little bit wonky, you know, in academic.
IQ Ignited (07:59)
Yeah.
Yeah.
James (08:03)
If I have them start working on a monthly giving strategy, they will have no idea. It's gonna take them years to build that capability. So they really have a lot of strength in public grants, which is a lot of writing, lots of documentation, lots of monitoring and evaluation, all of that. So let's do a corporate and private foundation strategy next. Okay, let's build that out. Okay, now we're talking to actual
IQ Ignited (08:21)
Yeah.
yeah.
James (08:29)
humans, you know, more often than going back and forth, not government, you know, institutions. And then from there, okay, well, let's start working with community foundations and start building some major donor muscle. I agree with your friend's point that you can stretch a nonprofit too thin, but at the same time, there is risk if you look at the long line of fundraising, if you only have all your eggs in one basket and that basket
breaks, then you're in a lot of trouble. And when I look at, you know, the current environment in 2025, where, you know, there's a decrease in public funding, especially, especially for kind of direct response, direct service, you know, organizations, think food pantries, refugees, immigrants, health, you know, all of that, if they had all their eggs in the public funding basket, they're really in trouble right now. And so
Never put all your eggs in one basket, but at the same time, don't stretch yourself so thin that you can't actually make any kind of a difference.
IQ Ignited (09:33)
Yeah, no, expect the unexpected always and then just know where your strengths are. So besides, I'd like to say just getting a handle on the data, what are some other biggest inhibitors of fundraising growth that you see?
James (09:49)
is a great question. Number one is leadership. You cannot be a fundraising leader. Think chief development officer, even think CEO, executive director, and be timid about it. You can't dabble at the edges and expect that you are gonna make a difference. You have to be all in for it. I think leadership really matters in every sector, but especially in the nonprofit space.
IQ Ignited (09:53)
Hmm.
Mm.
James (10:14)
So leaders
need to be all in for it. Fundraising can't be the sloppy second to your program work. If you believe in what you're doing, you have to believe in raising the funds to fuel your mission. And I see a lot of leaders who are like, I don't like fundraising, I'm not comfortable, get over it. Because your mission deserves that you just put your head down and start figuring out how to do this. You're not gonna grow any other way.
Now you can have all kinds of different types of fundraising leaders, but you have to just roll up your sleeves and do it at the end of the day. So I think that's one of the biggest challenges. Another one is clarity. I see a lot of fundraising teams where the leaders have not made it explicitly clear to their staff what their roles are, how they're being measured, when, at what time intervals they're being measured on their work.
Are they being measured on just the outcomes? How much money have you raised this year? Or are they being measured on their monthly, know, KPIs or OKRs? Clarity is kind, or so Brene Brown tells us. And I think that fundraising leaders need to bring clarity into their programs. And then I think there's this often overlooked area of community.
There's this notion that you hire a big game hunter, you know, or something like that, who will go out there and just, you know, are a rainmaker, and make it rain, you know, for your nonprofit. And I've seen that, and sometimes they do raise a lot of money. They often usually do it for very short periods of time. And then they've broken almost every relationship they can inside the organization.
You need to have a community of people from your finance people to your data people to your CRM specialist to your proposal writer and they all need to be synergized and working together in celebrating each other's wins or you're going to break a lot of stuff in the fundraising space.
IQ Ignited (12:13)
I am so grateful that you've just brought up community. happens so often in our work it's not intentionally, but I feel like there's different agendas and different departments, which makes sense. have different, you know, finances just trying to keep the books clean, programs trying to run programming, And then you've got fundraising and the back and forth of it. I think we can all forget that we're on the same team. And when you succeed, I succeed.
I really appreciate that you lend that perspective to the nonprofits. So James, what would you tell an executive director who has stepped in for the founder? I think I think the common story I see is the founder stepping down and then they appoint someone who really understands the programming, but has not necessarily worked in the fundraising space. What are some things that you've told them to help them feel more comfortable in the development fundraising side of things?
James (13:05)
This is a great question and we have two clients like this right now. The first thing is before I say a word, I need to understand what precipitated that transition. Sometimes founders step down because they realize that somebody else can do the job better. And it's this very magnanimous, I need support or the organization needs something different. So for the good of the mission that I've sweat blood over for all these years, I'm gonna pass the baton.
That's a great transition. Still messy, but a great transition. The other type of founder transition is one where the founder is forced out because the board and the rest of the organization realizes that they got the organization this far, but they can't get them any further. That's a much more difficult transition. So first, I need to figure out what type of transition this is before really engaging. And then need to figure out what type of new leader.
IQ Ignited (13:34)
Hmm.
Hmm.
James (13:58)
is coming in. You mentioned, you know, a program leader coming in. That's great. I think program leaders that have come up through the program side of nonprofits can be amazing fundraisers.
The biggest thing they struggle with is learning how to tell a story without bogging it down in the details. Generally, program leaders are not going to be the leaders who are out there kicking down doors, building new relationships. They're gonna be brought in as subject matter experts, and they need to recognize that if their program knowledge is 100 feet deep, that most donors
IQ Ignited (14:13)
Mmm.
Yeah.
James (14:36)
once you get past six, seven, eight feet deep, are gonna feel like they're drowning with all the information you give them. So I work a lot with those leaders on, here's how you show up, here's how you tell the story, here's how you ask questions, especially to a major donor that doesn't have a program officer that's a technical expert in whatever you're doing. That's on the program side. If it's a fundraising leader that becomes a new executive director,
IQ Ignited (14:39)
Yeah.
James (15:04)
It's a very different equation. And I often tell them you need to learn more about programs because people are gonna look to you and they're gonna ask questions about financial synergy, cost per participant, those types of things. And if a fundraising leader gets elevated to executive director or CEO, they often struggle to manage the fundraising team because they did it themselves. And just because you are the best fundraiser, it doesn't mean you're the best fundraising leader.
IQ Ignited (15:09)
Hmm.
Thanks.
James (15:31)
And so they have a hard time passing off their responsibilities to their replacement on the fundraising side. And we have to work a lot on that and creating space for the CEO to still be engaged, but also creating space for the new leader over fundraising to really make it their own as well. And that's equally challenging, Bria.
IQ Ignited (15:32)
and
You
I can imagine, you know, I was listening to a talk by Simon Sinek, who's my go-to for all things. I just needed a brain break. And just had a good point about, you know, when you are elevated because you can do the job, you have to shift from my job is no longer the job, my job is the people who do the job. And I can imagine that must be quite a different mindset and very hard, especially when you're fundraising and...
You've been so responsible for bringing in the dollars for so long.
James (16:19)
That's so right.
IQ Ignited (16:23)
We really hope you're enjoying these insights from James and Bria. We can't wait to hear about what you have learned. But before we finish the conversation, we're going to pause to enter into our segment called burning questions.
This is a time each week where we will answer a burning question or a pressing question about grants and fundraising. These might be questions our clients have asked, or it might just simply be questions that our friends and family have asked. We know how complex many of the topics are in the grants and fundraising world. And so it is our hope that we can simplify these topics just a little bit and answer any burning questions you might have.
IQ Ignited (16:59)
So today's question is,
IQ Ignited (17:00)
What are the pros of government funding versus private funding? This is a great question. From COVID to massive polar shifts in federal priorities, recent years have reminded us of how important it is to have diverse funding streams. Relying too heavily on government grants can be detrimental for your organization. But
If you can't take advantage of government dollars, your organization is missing out on one of the largest sources of revenue. And winning government grants can boost your reputation, helping you attract other private partners. The key to knowing which to focus on during a funding year depends on your organization's goals for that year. Private funders are usually more flexible, so they are perfect partners when your organization
needs to build its capacity or if you want to create something new and innovative like a solution or a tool. Government funders on the other hand are pretty risk adverse. If you're looking for funding for a tried and tested program that impacts large numbers of people, this might be a good source of funding for you. I hope that answers your question. And if you have a burning or pressing question about the grants and fundraising world, feel free to send us a message and let us know what it is and maybe we will feature it next time.
And now let's get back to our conversation with James and Bria.
IQ Ignited (18:25)
We are looking at 2025. This will probably air in 2025, but if we're looking at some trends that are coming up, what are some of the top things that you think nonprofits should pay attention to in this new year?
James (18:41)
In 2025, I think there are three things that nonprofits really need to attend to. The first is community. Now we talked about community inside an organization. Let's talk about it outside. When people give to your organization, they are looking to join something. It is not just a, hey, here's some money, go and do good with it. They're tying a lot of their trust with you. They're tying their identity to you.
They are basically using you to bring about the good that they wanna see in the world. As the world becomes more more polarized, because I think it's gonna, know, this polarization that we see is gonna continue, bringing donors together in community is gonna be very important. It's gonna help increase retention. The nonprofit community has an awful retention problem right now, and it's gonna deepen relationships and deeper relationships cause deeper levels of funding.
So I would say bring your major donors together at one or two key marquee events every year, not a big gala, more intimate, deeper gatherings. If you have a large online community, form different segments, whether it's your monthly giving community, your mid-level community, people love to join stuff like that, especially in a world that's fracturing all around us. That's number one. Number two is you need to stop
chasing pennies when there are dollars out there. So many nonprofits focus on what is out on social media or on the website. And that is good and important and they should, but big dollars come through relationships. And you build relationships one-on-one, you build them on the phone, you build it on Zoom, you build it by being together. Stop just thinking that putting emails.
IQ Ignited (20:16)
Hmm.
James (20:25)
and snail mails and stuff on your website and you know, Instagram is gonna bring in the big dollars. You gotta get out there. And then third, nonprofits need to focus more on institutions right now. I don't think government necessarily, Bria, because especially if you're in direct service, I think that's gonna be a challenging season right now. I'm thinking donor advised funds where there are trillions of dollars just sitting there.
IQ Ignited (20:46)
Hmm.
James (20:48)
that just a click of a button gets dispersed to your nonprofit. I'm thinking foundations. I think nonprofits really need to build up those capabilities, because that's where a lot of liquid cash is being stored right now and can easily be transferred over. So I think that is really important. And you keep hearing in legislative circles about putting time limits on money and DAFs and things like that.
IQ Ignited (21:12)
Mm-mm.
James (21:13)
I think that's actually probably a good thing depending on the time horizon, if it's long enough, 10 years or so. And that would cause a massive transfer of wealth from Fidelity and Schwab donor advised funds directly into the nonprofit sector. So I really think nonprofits need to build that capability up going forward.
IQ Ignited (21:31)
One of the questions I've heard quite a bit over the last year is how do you start engaging or really tapping into DAFs? was in a Community Foundation the other day and they were so lovely to put a list of the DAFs they were stewarding and say, these names are the people that you can connect with. What if I don't know, say I get a check from a DAF, I donor advised fund and I don't know where this came from,
How do they build up that capability?
James (21:57)
Yeah, I think there are two ways, Bria. One is being reactive and the other is proactive. And the reactive space, when you get a check from a DAF a lot of nonprofits don't realize, keep reading in the documentation. Oftentimes you'll find out who the donor is. Okay. And then if there's contact information, reach out to them and start working with them like they're a major donor. Giving them stories, giving them reports, showing them how their money has been used.
IQ Ignited (22:01)
Mm.
Hmm.
James (22:24)
If you don't find that on the paperwork, just call the DAF and ask.
Say, hey, was this an anonymous donation from somebody? And if so, want to respect that anonymity, but could you pass on some reports so that they know how their money is being used? So simple, okay? Maybe a little bit more time consuming because you don't have an email address and you have to call an institution, still, if somebody's giving you that money, they're giving you that money. On the proactive side, DAFs are always looking for partners
IQ Ignited (22:41)
no...
James (22:57)
their job to help people of means, people of wealth, distribute their money in meaningful ways. It would be harder to do this with the big national DAFs know, Fidelity and Schwab, but if you have a community foundation, you know, I live in Howard County, Maryland, the Howard County Community Foundation, and you approach them and say, hey, we'd like to put on an event about
this thing that's happening in our community. We won't do a hard ask there, but could we partner together to do that, either in person or online? A lot of DAFs are gonna say yes to that, especially at the city and community level. So build a relationship with those people. Build a relationship with the staff.
The donor advised funds because they're gonna once they get to know you and they're sitting down with Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Mr. and Mrs. Smith say, we care about hunger or homelessness. And two months ago they had lunch with the hunger or homelessness, you know, nonprofit, they're gonna say, hey, I think you should meet these people over there.
because that's adding a valuable, tangible thing that the DAF actually can use to meet their business objectives. So help them do that and they're gonna help you get more money.
IQ Ignited (24:07)
and
Love that idea.
Well, James, one last thinking about small to mid-sized large of a team do they need implement some of the changes that you're talking about?
James (24:20)
Bria I think it really depends on the history of the organization. Are they a $500,000 organization, a 5 million, a 25 million? I think that any size organization should think of it less in terms of the number of people and more in terms of a percentage of their overall income.
I think that really healthy organizations need to be spending 25 to 30 % of their revenue on overhead and fundraising and marketing is overhead. And I would say you really need to make sure you're spending that consummate with your size. So I don't think it's a number of people. I think it's a percentage of your overall revenue.
That can help you because as you grow you're going to continue to invest. If you invest 100,000 one year and you grow by 500,000, well next year invest 200,000 and grow by a million. So I think it's more of an economic calculation than a number of staff.
IQ Ignited (25:07)
Hmm.
I love that. And then you get to measure the return on investment as opposed to figure out, do I need this person? Do I need that person? So thinking about the types of team members that you need on your team, I think I've heard you say that you really, really believe in the importance of having a major gift officer. Can you speak a little bit about that?
James (25:39)
67 % of all charitable giving in the United States comes from individuals. 67%. And the vast majority of that are people who give more than $10,000 per year. If you want to make a long-term and sustained impact, you need to tap into those networks of wealth. Major donors, if they're stewarded well,
IQ Ignited (25:54)
Wow.
James (26:07)
If those relationships are facilitated well, they stay for years and decades giving to that nonprofit. Foundations come and go.
They change priorities. have mandatory gap years. Government funding comes and goes based on, you know, political priorities, but major donors, when they are in your organization and committed, they stay forever. Even up all the way to plan gifts and leaving you money from their estate and all those different things. When I talk to nonprofits about sustainable fundraising strategies, it always starts with high net worth individuals with major
donors because the data doesn't show anything else that works over the long term. And long term I'm not talking two, three years. I'm talking five, ten, fifteen, twenty years. Major giving is what helps to fuel growth in nonprofits.
IQ Ignited (27:02)
I love that. Let's make it sustainable. Let's make it last. So James, if I need your help desperately, where can I find you? Where can I learn more about your work? Where can I just tap into your insights?
James (27:14)
So two places, one, LinkedIn is where I hang out. I'm there every day posting content and guides and how-tos and all that stuff. So send me a direct message on LinkedIn and I'll respond back. The other is our website. Our website is thekiposgroup.com and kipos is K-I-P-O-S. So thekiposgroup.com and there's a button right there to schedule a 30 minute conversation with me.
IQ Ignited (27:38)
So you know what, that is the most interesting name and I want the world to know how you came to land on the Kipos Group.
James (27:44)
So, Kipos is the Greek word for garden. And there's two things here. One, during the pandemic, I had a four-year-old and a two-year-old, and we needed something to do. And we developed a family passion for gardening. We planted literally hundreds of perennial flowers that year and transformed our entire backyard to the point where later in that summer, people were like asking to take pictures of their family in our backyard.
So when we started, when I started the company a few years later, we were talking at dinner one night and everybody was like, yeah, we need to name this company something to do with gardening and growing. so we got the Greek word for garden because we really do want to help people grow beautiful things in their fundraising program.
IQ Ignited (28:30)
I love it. You grow deep so that thing can grow long and strong. James, thank you so much for being on with us. So enjoyed our conversation. I know we've all learned a lot.
James (28:38)
Thanks so much, Bria