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Welcome to Quirky Podcast, where I reconnect with inspiring individuals from my circle and beyond to explore their unique journeys. This podcast isnβt just about talking to the elite 1% but about connecting with relatable people whoβve found success on their own terms. Through these conversations, I hope to uncover insights and advice that can resonate with anyone navigating their own path. Whether you're seeking inspiration, guidance, or just an engaging story, youβll find it here.
Join us as we explore the diverse paths to success, share a few laughs, and spark meaningful conversations. Donβt forget to subscribe, engage, and be part of the conversation!
speaker-0 (00:00.046)
It's a pressure cooker, you gotta tune everything out compartmentalize and you really gotta just be wired for it. And I always make the analogy to like Kobe and basketball. It's kinda like how a trial lawyer is wired.
speaker-1 (00:12.236)
Yeah, so I think in in the early years, probably the key characteristic that helped me build start building a team and gathering people around me was my enthusiasm. I loved what I did, and I think that rubbed off on people. Still do love it every day, coming in and fighting for people, trying to see justice. The hardest person to lead is yourself. That's what he would say. And I found that to be true. But once you start leading yourself, you know, you you you start to be intentional about growth, you be intentional about investing in yourself.
And learning and growing.
speaker-0 (00:48.952)
Hello everybody, Logan Quirk with Q's Quirky Podcast. I'm here with John David Huffman, managing partner at Pool Huffman. John, thanks for joining me today. I know we are introduced to Margarita. Why don't you give me a brief thumbnail sketch on who you are and how you came to be on my podcast?
speaker-1 (01:10.306)
Yeah, absolutely. So again I'm a managing partner trial lawyer at a firm in located in Metro Atlanta. And we specialize in litigation, mostly fraud-based cases that take place in the context of like real estate and business disputes. It's primarily the context at the room. And we got introduced through through our our CMO, I don't know if she's also your CMO as well, Margarita Ebeline.
speaker-0 (01:36.97)
Excellent. And what what kind of work is Margarita doing for you?
speaker-1 (01:42.264)
So we just hired her a couple of months ago to be our chief marketing officer. So she's currently just beginning to implement the strategy she's been working on for the last thirty, sixty days, gathering data, seeing what we're doing, and that's that's where we're at.
speaker-0 (01:57.486)
Margarita and I got introduced through a podcast I did with her company and then she was on my podcast and she's wonderful. So to answer your question, she's not my chief marketing officer because my my ideal budget is not in her wheelhouse yet, but hopefully someday it will be. So congratulations on hiring her. She's a a firecracker and sh a world of knowledge. So I hope she's able to take you guys to the heights you guys are looking towards and beyond.
speaker-1 (02:26.34)
That's great.
speaker-0 (02:27.054)
So I I did a little background research into your firm and particularly your background and one of the things that came up was fraud, business disputes, real estate disputes, but you kind of have this reputation as a fraudbuster and a master cross-examiner. And I've done some trials and I think most trial lawyers will tell you that the most fun is crossing experts and just nailing.
So why don't you expand on how you got those those monikers and and your experience with fraud busting and cross examination?
speaker-1 (03:04.032)
Yeah, so probably my experience with cross examination came as a child with my family. We had a we had a lot of spirited arguments and so that that type of dialogue and it was always, of course, with with a certain amount of love. but you know, we got some we had some spirited conversations in our family. And so when I started practicing law and had some cases with these types of elements in them, it was sort of a natural for me to to begin that process of cross examination. it's probably my favorite part of any sort of trial. even when you
to do it in a deposition. You know, sometimes strategically you're a little bit laid back in a deposition because you don't want to broadcast what you're doing, but sometimes it it's appropriate to sort of go full full bore, try to solve the case. But I find that the most important thing about it in this context, which is fraud, and I realize you're in a personal injury context, and maybe a lot of the people you're dealing with on the other side of your cases are are good people, just made a mistake, you know, generally weren't dishonest.
but in a fraud case, I'm dealing with somebody that's generally should be categorized as a criminal. And and you know, we're we're mostly in the civil context. Occasionally we we get into some probable cause hearings and things like that in a criminal context. But the most important part is pressure. Pressure, pressure, pressure. You gotta keep going at them, keep putting them under the gun. And what you'll find is eventually they will lie because fraudsters
are liars at the core, they lie when the truth will do just as well. And sometimes when that pressure builds and mounts, you get something out of them that you really need. And that can be the make or break in a case. So we call it persistent unrelenting pressure. We like to have that in our cases. It's sort of our style of litigation, but also in that cross examination special.
speaker-0 (04:52.782)
that's really neat. It's always always good to be on the attack and not be on the defense, I think, as far as trying to litigate cases, 'cause you always want to be, like you said, applying the pressure and controlling the narrative. so I I I think that's really, really important. What do you think is one of your most favorite stories or one of your most moments of renown insofar as cross examination?
speaker-1 (05:21.676)
Yeah, so I've been able to extract a couple apologies on the stand, which is an extremely sort of pivotal moment as you can imagine. It's often very emotional. I found myself actually getting teared up when when it happened one on one of the occasions. so I'll tell you what, I'll tell you two stories. The first one I'll tell you, which was an infamous non-apology, and then I'll tell you about an actual apology. So about six months ago I was cross examining a former boyfriend of my client. They had swapped power of attorneys while they were dating. They had been dating for like ten years.
And we were at trial and after they broke up, the the boyfriend took the power of attorney and tried to steal her house. I I don't know how any any way else to describe it. He took it, transferred title to himself and his his elderly his elderly mother at the time. And so the court had awarded my client the house back, and so we then went to trial in front of the jury for damages. And his lawyer who had just jumped into the case.
was doing the best he could, I really do think that, stood up in opening and said, My client's gonna get up on the stand and we know he didn't do everything right and he's gonna apologize. And I said, Okay, great. So I called him on cross and I said, you know, your lawyer said in opening you're gonna get up here and apologize. And he goes, Yeah, yeah. And I go, All right, let's hear it. And he goes, I'm just so sorry we're all here. And
And so it went on like that over about an hour and a half. I gave him six or seven opportunities to apologize and me a culpa, and it never came. Every time it was sort of a non sequitur or somebody else's fault. The jury hit him for about six hundred thousand dollars. And we really only had about eighty thousand dollars in actual damages. So full fees, punitive damages of a quarter million dollars. But one of my favorite times was I had a client who was getting a a sort of
a nursing certificate or degree that was sort of a higher degree and they were at a school here in Georgia and the school had represented to her that they were accredited to issue this degree. So she, like a lot of other students, it was a very niche program, so there weren't a lot of students in it. But she went to s took the classes, she did her clinical hours, and then she found out at the end of it that they weren't accredited. So she couldn't get the degree.
speaker-1 (07:39.02)
So we wound up and filed suit against the school, which was actually you know part of the state of Georgia 'cause it was a public university. A lot of a lot of things to dodge in that case. We were happy just to get the trial. And when we did, we had the director of nursing on the stand. And I just remember asking her sort of towards the close, I said, Well, you know, ma'am, did you know, you're kind of up here telling me that the the school really didn't do what was right. Did did you ever apologize to my client? And she goes, No, and I go, D
Did anybody else in the school ever ever reach out and say, you know, we're sorry, Noreen, you know, what's happened to you and and we're sorry? She goes, No, not not that I know of and I said, Well, would you like to do that right now? And she just turned and looked at my client. You know, she didn't have a financial interest in the case, you know, so that does kind of make a difference. And she just turns and looks at my client and says, Noreen, I'm I'm just really sorry. And, you know, even today it kinda chokes me up 'cause it was so emotional for her. My client, she broke down crying and
It was what she needed. The state quickly settled with us, as you can imagine, after after that before we actually So it was that was about day two, two or three, and they settled a few hours after after that with us. And she got everything she could have wanted and she got her apology, so it was it was full rest.
speaker-0 (08:55.426)
That's that's amazing because I imagine you know, most people don't realize getting a full admission or apology is quite rare. If and most people won't ever as lawyers won't ever see that, especially on cross examination. So kudos to you. You've done two more than I think I've done in my career. And then the the second part I think I really like about your stories is it's not just money for some of these people. A lot of times when you've been duped or frauded, you're embarrassed, you're ashamed. And just getting that
that level of being recognized and seen, it's gotta be fulfilling for your clients. So I know you're not just the money aspect is obviously how they get reimbursed and compensated, but getting some closure to a really terrible situation. so tell us a little bit about that for your client.
speaker-1 (09:42.382)
Th the dignity restoration that comes from a verdict or a resolution in the case is very important to clients. In fact, arguably it's more important to many of them. I have a lot of clients and as you can imagine, we have cases where where you've got a criminal, you've got a con, they they sometimes flee the state, you know, leave the country. Sometimes
the the collectability of these cases is difficult. And you have to tell the client, of course we do up front, look, I I don't know if I can collect anything from them. And they still choose to go forward because they want to see that sort of reputational restoration. But but it sometimes that's that's a key component for like business owners that have been duped. But for the individuals
It's it's really important for them, these clients, maybe not for everybody, but for these particular clients in my case is to have that that jury of twelve, you know, look at that lady who was a girlfriend in that story and say, you know what, you were right, and this guy took you for a ride, and and you know, it's wrong. And we're gonna send a message that it's wrong. And it's it's really rewarding to see some of the personal sort of development come out of those stories because they really
it it's a story of resilience for the client, right? They're going through this process and I watched them fight an uphill battle, go through a lot of arrows thrown at them, a lot of fraud defendants will accuse them of fraud. I mean I had a whole case where we had to wait for four days to put on our case because they accused my client of fraud the whole time and go through a lot of trauma and then to come out on the other side we see I see clients lose weight.
I see them find real motivation, real purpose, and a real story in their life. I I heard somebody say the other day that sometimes for some people, you know, your purpose may be right next to the worst moment in your life. That's that's where it might be. And that's where I see some of these people go through their worst moments and come out with with such wonderful purpose.
speaker-0 (11:52.846)
Yeah, that's that's a really beautiful story. I I really like that. You gotta sometimes go through the bad to get to the good. Yeah. and I was gonna ask you about the collectibility of some of these clients 'cause we've all had those cases where, you know, the collectibility on a judgment might be difficult, but I'm guessing you're getting paid up front so you're doing whatever the client tells you to do.
speaker-1 (12:14.766)
Yeah, that's right. We we follow the direction. We advise them up front. Some of the cases are a little bit more clear on the collectibility than others. Some are are more of a risk. Some of them were like you're probably not gonna collect. I mean it's sort of the a spectrum. I mean sometimes we can l we do a good bit of of collection, sort of complicated collection work here. So we can look into the assets, you know, do they have any real estate owned?
I know you're in California, I don't know what the laws are about collecting against you know people's homes, but we can see if there's equity in their home and things like that. We get pretty creative. We had one one defendant, we got a we got an arbitration award, and in the process of trying to turn that into a judgment, he tried to do what I call pulling O. J. Simpson and moved to Florida, buy his house, and you know, protect his money.
And so he put his house up for sale in Georgia. We were able to run into court and and get the judge to freeze the equity in the house and made made him pay it into the court. This was before we got a judgment even against him. So he could sell his house, he paid the money into the court. He later filed bankruptcy in Florida, but we got it all. I mean we had to fight for it, but we got it all his equity and and for the client. So yeah.
speaker-0 (13:29.07)
Kudos to you, man. Taking on your feet. That's that's really ingenious. So I wanna know how do you how do these people come to you? What what what's your how are you getting your clients? Is it through other lawyers, marketing efforts? I know you just hired Margarita, so obviously you're looking to ramp up the higher marketing a little bit. What's working for you guys getting your clientele that you you want to represent?
speaker-1 (13:52.366)
Sure. So really all of the above, we have traditionally gotten a lot of our business from referrals from other lawyers. So we tend to sit, you know, build relationships with transactional lawyers, closing attorneys, MA lawyers, corporate lawyers that are not doing litigation. And we don't do any transactional work here at our firm, so there's sort of the reciprocity between the parties. That's how we've gotten the vast majority of our business. But recently we've had some people find us online.
This is my second podcast and someone actually saw the first one and hired us a few days ago. I they may have found us through Google or something first, but you know, so other means of actually getting ready to write a book about fraud here coming out in the next six months or so and so those are the kind of marketing efforts that we're doing.
speaker-0 (14:41.426)
Awesome. How's so congratulations on on your podcast? You you're you're a natural. I'm over here stumbling and I've done a lot more of So hey man. No, well thank you. I being on both sides, it's it's fun to do. How has been your foray into getting into the digital space? What are you what are some benefits and some and some cons, we'll say drawbacks to it.
speaker-1 (15:06.562)
Yeah, the generally the clients are a little bit more vetted when they're referred and they're often a lot warmer. So there's sort of that trust factor that you get when they're referred directly to you. The the leads that come from the internet, you have to spend some time establishing some trust with them. And especially at the begin even even before the representation, of course, that's true, but I think also once the representation has begun, because they don't have that sort of referral from another person.
Then that trust is is not immediately there. So I'm constantly trying to encourage the lawyers around here to spend a good bit of time just in the beginning listening, connecting, trying to find common ground with the client, telling them a war story or two so that they can develop a natural trust with with you, which which which by the way is is often the same way that cons work, so be careful. So
That's my this is my job to warn people about fraud. So, you know, when you get referred to somebody gets referred to you and then they turn around and ask for money from you, be careful. Okay, that's one of the first things about establishing trust. So is that connection with somebody else?
speaker-0 (16:19.18)
Yeah, I I like that message. You gotta know like trust your
your referral and and the warm referrals definitely have a built in level of trust and credibility. Yeah. And I think with the digital space, what I've known is you definitely have to spend more time getting a rapport and then having some type of other validation system so they can go independently verify what you're telling them. And I found that's that's what's best. And I I think what you're doing right now is a good way to get your personality out and to get the word out and to have another validation system that isn't just coming from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
So I think Margarita has you off in the right direction. I think you're you're gonna see leads come in from places you never even imagined.
speaker-1 (17:01.026)
Maybe so. What what do you use for other validation? I don't I know you're the one asking the questions, but if I could ask
speaker-0 (17:05.326)
no, good. I so I do a lot of social proof, a lot of social media. I've been doing that for a while. Google reviews were you know, Yelp reviews were before social media. and then testimonials are always good having like a built-in bank of of reviews that you can point people that might have some objections, like I don't know, it might cost too much. So you have people that have reviewed you about cost, reviewed you about
maybe experience and then you can point them to other people or to other experiences that say, Hey, I understand these people have the same objections to you. Here's what they said about me. Right. or here's their telephone number. Go ahead and call them and if you want to do, you know, go ahead and interview some of these people. So I I think it's kinda like any other process. I would imagine your clientele is a little bit harder to you know, they're a little more cautious because of the experience they've gone through. So they're gonna be a little more cautious putting their toe into the water.
versus some of the other clients that I'm maybe I'm representing because they haven't been defrauded already. So I think there's a gotta be a little more there's a longer closed session and trust building with your clientele, especially on the fraud side.
speaker-1 (18:17.304)
That may be true. Yeah. That's a good idea. I've I've occasionally I've occasionally given a prospective client a a former or current client's phone number, yeah, but that's a
speaker-0 (18:26.144)
I don't know, you know, I think just thinking outside the box that's kind of especially in I you know, I don't know. I I I do think the Google reviews the being who you are and who you're gonna hire and they see your personality has been sufficient for me, but those people that haven't been sufficient, here's a group of people you can call with their permission and go ahead. I have rarely ever had people take me up on that, but I think that's a level of of really really vetting your attorney.
So I did notice on your LinkedIn you guys also serve as kinda we call like the eleventh hour councils. Tell me about that role where you guys kinda come in at the last minute, take over a case for a firm and try the case for that that.
speaker-1 (19:12.962)
So we do we we
Yeah, certainly. So on occasion we helicopter into a case that's kinda what we call it and and try it. We come in as counsel. There's a lot of lawyers that, you know, like to litigate, like to take depositions, don't love to perform in front of a jury. And so on occasion, you know, we get hired to come in and and helicopter in and take it over and try it, which we love to do. So that's kind of our bread and butter around here.
speaker-0 (19:41.704)
That's that's neat. I I have access to a lot of people who love to try cases, don't like to try cases and everywhere in between. Yeah. And I always tell people like trial lawyers are wired a little bit differently. You gotta you gotta really love what you do 'cause it's really it's a pressure cooker. It's you gotta tune everything out compartmentalize and you really gotta just be wired for it. I always I always make the analogy to like
Toby and basketball. It's kind of like how a trial lawyer is wired. Do you find that to be true? Am I totally mistaken? Tell me what you think about trial.
speaker-1 (20:19.054)
No, I think you're hundred percent right. I there's gotta be a certain level of risk taking and put yourself out there. I mean it's a you know, trying cases is a it's a lot of work and but it can be very, very rewarding. So I I had five trials, I believe four of them were jury last year, which is a lot for for our practice area. I've got one on Monday, actually, so I'm gearing up for it right after we get done here. So
speaker-0 (20:47.562)
You look remarkably refreshed for going into trial on Monday, so I'm gonna whatever you're doing, keep up at it. Must be the hydration. So you did mention that you are managing partner. What is your role as managing partner at your firm?
speaker-1 (21:03.554)
Yeah, so I have a partner and we kinda co manage the firm. The my my role is leadership here. I I lead a team of lawyers. He also leads a team, so we kinda have it split up that way. his his role is a little bit more operational than mine. I kinda lean into the marketing and the sales a little bit more. So that's kind of the way we have it divided up. But leadership is one of the main components which which I love and I'm learning a lot about. So
speaker-0 (21:34.314)
always an educational process being on the I was say the management side 'cause we're not as we're not trained to be business people. We're trained to be lawyers and it's kind of I've learned on the fly and I'm sure, you know, you've probably I don't know your experience, but that's how I found the best experience was learning on the fly, trial and error. And it's become more difficult or
It's become an experience for me to learn the management side. I don't even know if I've learned it, but from what I've gathered so far, maybe it's just been happenstance. Where do you think have been your biggest keys to learning how to manage or learning to cultivate leadership within your firm?
speaker-1 (22:17.154)
Yeah, so I think in in the early years, probably the key characteristic that helped me build start building a team and gathering people around me was my enthusiasm. I loved what I did and I think that rubbed off on people. Still do. Love it. Every day, coming in and fighting for people, trying to see justice and really writing some serious wrongs. I mean it's about as close to criminals as you can get in the civil world, and I love it. I mean
So I think I think that enthusiasm really rubbed off and people were excited to be part of it, largely because I was excited to do it in the beginning, and then they became excited to do it. And now we have a bunch of people who are excited to do it. So I mean, every day I come to work and I'm just like, what's gonna happen next? And who's gonna do something crazy in a case? And how can we, you know, prevail for our client? So I think enthusiasm was very important. And then as I got into a little bit more leadership, what I learned, and this is just sort of a a really
recent in the last say year and a half was a principle that I learned from from John Maxwell, who I'll give a lot of credit to. I've learned a lot from him and what anybody who's on their leadership journey should should invest a lot of time in reading his books. He's he's only written like a hundred of them or something, so it's very, very well known, but was to lead yourself. The hardest person to lead is yourself. That's what he would say. And I found that to be true. But once you start leading yourself, you know you you you start to
Be intentional about growth, be intentional about investing in yourself and and and learning and growing and being being teachable, which is also another important characteristic. then you can learn to lead others around you, but it kind of starts with yourself. And and I wrote down I heard this this morning, that the the enemy the enemy of learning is knowing. Like I know how to do this, right? Then you can't learn anymore.
Once you know it, but if you're always learning, then you can always be growing and you can always improve and take people with you. And so we've developed a culture in just the last year and a half of of yes, it was enthusiastic, but now it's intentional and and and establishing a culture of where come on, let's grow together. How can we get better? You know, put down the the guardrails that you're an expert at everything and let's just learn. Learn about the wall, learn about you know new things like AI that are changing it.
speaker-1 (24:40.726)
and learn about leadership and soft skills that are very important.
speaker-0 (24:45.31)
Everybody. I I I think that's a wonderful synopsis on on how to grow as a person, an individual in personal, professional settings. And that's a common theme I've heard from a lot of people I've talked to is you never stop learning, always be open to growing. And if you want to go and you want people to come with you, lead by example and people will follow and some people will fall off and that's okay. But those that want to come will
go for the ride. So that's right. I think that's a a wonderful synopsis. I couldn't have said it better. So thank you for sharing that. Absolutely. what are some other having a partner since I don't have a partner in my primary business, how did you guys delineate the responsibilities? Was it kind of what is more natural to you or how would you guys pick and choose who's going to do what?
speaker-1 (25:22.892)
Yeah.
speaker-1 (25:44.162)
Well, I hit the partner of Jackpot.
And you not everybody can say that because there's a you know a lot of disagreements and partnerships. But my partner Todd Poole hired me when I was in law school as a as my first year in law school. And I so I worked for him as like an intern for a couple of years, you know, off and on, not not all the time. And then and then I was an employee, and a couple years after I became an employee, we we partnered up. He was he took a real risk on me. And we're just really different, which I think makes it work. Our personalities are different, our strengths are different. He thinks a lot more about
Process and operations, systems which are vital and important. And I lean into some other things. And to be honest, I I we just don't we don't really have a lot of disagreements. We we you know we sometimes we say like the person who feels the strongest about it kind of prevails, you know, whatever whatever the topic is. If we if we do have a disagreement. I mean we we have some disagreements, but we don't really argue, I guess is a better way to say it. Sure. We've only had maybe
one or two, you know, in in twelve years and one of them was over like an operating agreement, you know, which we've never looked at really since. So that's you know, just I've hit the jackpot. And I think I think partnerships really should be more y we should think about them more like a marriage, you know, than than what the documents say. Like do the personalities work? You know, do your goals align? Do your values align? Unfortunately, ours have.
And I've learned a lot from him. I mean, he trained me, mentored me, helped me become the lawyer that I am. So I don't know what to tell people about when they have bad, bad partners, because I've I've always had a good one.
speaker-0 (27:24.2)
Yeah, well that's that's really neat. it's kind of like an intuitive partnership because you guys have been together so long. But I'm sure there's even when there's some friction you guys have a level of trust and communication that helps ward off and you have a conflict resolution built in because you guys have worked with each other and you know what's gonna cause some irritation but where to find common ground and where to compromise. So I think that's experience is always a great
Great characteristic to overcome potential dispute.
speaker-1 (27:56.775)
And we've always sort of evolved just to kind of what the natural strengths were, you know, as far as provision of what we're doing.
speaker-0 (28:03.948)
Yeah, and it sounds like you're both flexible and hiring a CMO like Margaritas, it's not a cheap cheap pill to swallow. So it sounds like you both have the have the flexibility and the compromise and the growth mindset to go ahead and keep growing and keep learning like you had said earlier. So when you're with certain people that share similar philosophies, certain principles, it's easier to get along and go for the ride. So I think that's
credit to you two as as partners and it sounds like your your teams have the same philosophy. Excellent. So we're kind of rounding the corner here and I know you you it's a little bit later over there and on the East Coast, but for people that are watching this, what are some of the interests you like to do outside of being a fraudbuster and a cross examiner and a lawyer and a counselor and all the wonderful things that come with our work?
speaker-1 (28:56.408)
Yeah, so I have four kids. three of them are boys, and right now I'm I am fort building.
freehouse building really in the backyard, so that's one of my hobbies. Of course I'm I'm naturally gifted at at framing, as you can imagine, as a lawyer. That's you know, so I'm I'm struggling, but we're having to redo a portion of it. So that's that's my main hobby with is you know spending time with my family. I have a great wife who stays at home with them and gives me a lot of freedom to to work. But do that and I love to read. My faith is important to me and in my family. So that's that's kind of where where I'm spending most most of my time.
speaker-0 (29:31.896)
Good for you. Baith family home. what are the ages of your boys? And then what I just
speaker-1 (29:37.568)
Yeah, so it's twelve twelve year old boy, eleven year old girl, nine and about to turn seven. So
speaker-0 (29:45.946)
wow. You guys had a boom boom boom boom. You've seen the evolution from now you're seeing get into their teenagers. How neat. How fun. what motivated you to get into law?
speaker-1 (29:48.216)
Well
speaker-1 (30:02.546)
this is a great question. So my dad had a neighbor and he was an Orthodox Jewish neighbor and he you know we we did a lot of things with them. He would invite us over when they put the sort of the booth in the backyard to read I guess scripture during one of the things and and we just grew very close as a family and I'd go over and play
settlers of Catan, that old board game with him, some and he was a lawyer. And so I went and hung out with him. He'd take me to his law practice and we just kind of became buddies. He was almost like a you know an uncle to me or something. And he encouraged me. He goes, John David, you know, you'd be a great lawyer. Why don't you why don't you think about going to law school? And and that's that's really why I became a lawyer. Marshall Jaffey. he did not live
To see me graduate from law school, unfortunately. He died while I was in law school, young from a heart attack. But it goes to show you like the power of just one person sort of believing in you. I have no other lawyers in my family. and well my cousin became a lawyer, but you know, and I'm the first one in my lineage. And his encouragement and his belief in me was the reason that that I became one. And so
My my parents went through some litigation as well, I'll say. My dad was a serial entrepreneur, which is probably why I landed in the in the type of work that I do. So he had some some schemes and frauds pulled on him in the business context. I saw that, but that was why I became one because of Marshall Jaffe.
speaker-0 (31:38.274)
Wow, that's a really inspiring story and
You never know the power of one interaction or one moment might have on someone. I was actually was just talking to someone yesterday about how the intersection of time and people can have a ripple effect down years down the road. And it just goes to show always, you know, always value who you meet and always be willing to sit back and listen and not try to always be in a rush and be kind to people and never know what's gonna transpire from that intersection of time and people.
speaker-1 (32:11.98)
Yeah, that that belief in people. I've I've tried to implement what Marshall told me through the years and that, you know, believing in somebody and telling them that you believe in them, that encouragement, you know, can it can change people. I mean I can look back at a handful of of those kind of comments in my life and say, you know, that that changed me. You know, I think most people can.
speaker-0 (32:30.166)
Yeah, you know, I've I've often asked people for resources or people that they've leaned on in the past and they can it's amazing. my fifth grade teacher, this person, you know, so the it the truly how powerful people and connections can be are truly impactful on people. so as we as I said, round the corner, and we're truly rounding the corner. Where
One one question I always ask people and I can't take credit for this, if you had five dinner guests at your table, past or present, who would you have at your table?
speaker-1 (33:04.958)
let's see. I'd have John Maxwell. I'd like I'd like to spend some time with him. Abraham Lincoln. He was a fantastic leader. I think I'd like to talk to Winston Churchill. The Apostle Paul is maybe one of the most influential people in history besides besides maybe Jesus. And the fifth one, let's see. I don't know, maybe
George Washington or some somebody. Some leaders mainly. I would be thinking about leaders, so
speaker-0 (33:36.748)
Yeah, you have a lot of strong strong leadership there. All the books on how to how to lead and how to be a good person. what is one message if you could broadcast it to anyone or one message that you try to impart on your children? What is that message?
speaker-1 (33:54.274)
Try to add value to people every day. You know, that's that's been what I've been thinking about recently. I've been teaching my kids that as well. You know, what's one thing you can do today? as you go to school, how can you add value to somebody else? You know, and I I talk through them, of course they're young. You know, can you open the door for someone, smile and greet them? Can you encourage them? You know, my daughter's in that sort of preteen era where
You can do a little feisty, you I'm encouraging her to think about what she can do to add value, be a good friend, and encourage people instead of detracting or criticizing. You know, we can connect with people or we can criticize people, but you you can't do both. So that's that that'd be my message. Add value.
speaker-0 (34:37.698)
Very strong. Very strong. Thank you. for everyone that is watching, where can they find you and how can they connect with you?
speaker-1 (34:45.611)
Yeah, so you can find us at we fightfearlessly dot com. That's our firm website, and you can find my profile on there if you'd like.
speaker-0 (34:53.664)
Excellent. Well, John, thank you so much for joining me. It's been truly a wonderful conversation and we'd love to have you back anytime you want.
speaker-1 (35:02.124)
Logan, it was great to be with you. Love listening to your magician, you know, last episode, the magician stage builder. That was very interesting. So you know you have it on the podcast and you've got a great practice.
speaker-0 (35:10.774)
All right.
speaker-0 (35:15.384)
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Quirky Podcast. I hope you enjoyed diving into another inspiring journey and found some nuggets of wisdom to take with you. If you love this episode, don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a conversation. You can find all our episodes on your favorite podcast platforms and on YouTube. Until next time, stay curious, be inspired, and keep carving your own unique path. Catch you on the next episode of Quirky Podcast.