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Each week Adam & Ste focus on a specific feature, idea or prototype in Hardcover and iterate on it together or with guests.
ste (00:01.299)
ah here we go
adam (00:03.06)
hey hey how's it going
ste (00:07.219)
good good this is our heart cover six february chat for harcoverbookap high adam
adam (00:14.undefined)
m hm
adam (00:18.undefined)
hey how is your weekend
ste (00:21.699)
pretty good i went to cambridge on sunday and that was pretty great i saw the the newton tree and yeah in a really cool corner with i don't know i had the flowers like all around it i don't know if it was the same apple tree though i mean must have been like what it was either a very old apple tree or another apple tree but yeah that sit
adam (00:31.undefined)
oh yeah
ste (00:51.019)
is great and yeah while i was there i researched like how many like really famous scientists and economists and like all sorts of figures actors and why not we're actually alumni from cambridge and it's like a whole bunch
adam (01:09.16)
interesting yeah who else i mean i only know of like isa newton but who else is famous from the area
ste (01:15.379)
uhalentering was actually there i think yeah who else was there i think canes was there the economist there's a home list i have to look it up elshyeahmy wife was telling me a lot of people yeah it's a lot of people a lot of people set foot on caichrnstruter for nels bore so
adam (01:38.3)
oh
adam (01:45.12)
okay yeah
ste (01:45.179)
uh yeah big names in physics yeah it was all like name dropping when i was like researching that and it's a pretty cool city as well for students got some coffee walked around went to this like really interesting artist house which was like a real small cottage but it got expanded into some sort of like labyrinth and it ended up in a huge museum jim kettle i think was the name the cat
house yeah yeah really nice about you was your weekend
adam (02:17.12)
nice
adam (02:22.72)
it was it was pretty quiet we had some friends over on saturday just made some lazania watched some saturday night live but it was it was good there was there was a really good saturday and i night live skip this week with a kind of last of us meet mario cart and big fans of both of those generis both of those games so it was like perfect definitely recommended if you haven't seen it
ste (02:32.659)
nice
ste (02:43.039)
uh huh
ste (02:49.619)
okay yeah i haven't seen it that sounds like a killer ambo yeah i'm excited for the most of us i have been watching it is like really really nice and it's coming out today right
adam (02:55.2)
yeah
adam (03:05.2)
yeah yeah every sunday
ste (03:06.679)
i think yeah nice
adam (03:10.36)
yeah other than that just working someone book subscriptions in the is ap think i'm gettigthem close to the point where that's like the last thing we need to add to the i s p before we submit it for a review and i'm realizing that in order to get an ap in the store like ninety five percent of the work is you know building the user experience and getting the you know getting it to be fast and you know that crash and be what the user expects but that
last five per cent is like apple store settings for your app and that's what's been taking up surprising amount of time because a lot of the settings are like change this and then it will take effect in twenty four hours so i'll change something and i'll be like well i can't test this until tomorrow so i guess i'm just going to come back
ste (04:01.359)
yeah
adam (04:02.22)
but i think i'm running out of ways that can go wrong so i feel like there can't be too many other things
ste (04:10.279)
okay that's good i mean yeah it was a right it was right i was kind of expecting it i had another like submission in the past four aposstore and i knew there were i mean they always discover stuff as it goes along and stuff pops up so they're not like offering you a long list of things to do they just tell you to fix something and yeah and we still have to submit that document for the french up store so yeah
adam (04:32.86)
m
ste (04:40.299)
fill that in so apparently there's a document a separate document for the french up store that you have to submit you have to submit it via mail like physical mail first but yeah but now they updateditso you can actually submit it as a vid but yet it's in french but luckily you have mariana on the team who now is french so yeah i'm hoping to touch based with her so we can submit that and make it available to all the french people out there
adam (04:49.28)
okay
adam (05:03.2)
oh
adam (05:09.86)
nice man yeah
ste (05:10.819)
yeah it's a process it's till the sixth of february so we said we would get it out at the end of january which is not that much of a delay
adam (05:23.04)
and we did we did launch the bata in january so at least you know people in our discord have have had access to the apt and be able to start testing and iterating on it
ste (05:32.939)
oh yeah that was really interesting especially how people submit feedback on the app i think that's a good advantage of the appstore the fact that you can use your eye when you click view tap like side buttons and you can submit feedback directly to us
adam (05:51.16)
yeah i didn't even know that was a thing that you take a screen shot and then when you go to save the screen shot you can either save it to you like your local camera roll like usual or if it's a bata app through test flight you can save it as developer feedback that was something i was not even aware of
ste (06:07.219)
yeah i wish that was the same for the web so creenshot and yeah just send it to the des like this is wrong well we got this cord for that so at least there's that
adam (06:12.08)
that would be great
adam (06:15.8)
m hm
adam (06:22.22)
yeah true
ste (06:23.779)
yeah nice but getting there i mean if some if nothing else pops up may be next week or so or maybe even i don't know would it be like feasible even this i'm not
adam (06:39.76)
yeah i'm really hoping to launch it this week and or at least like not really launch it but i have it out in the ap store as kind of a silent launch and then we can likely let our like newsletter subscribers know about it first and get a kind of a first round of people using it to like flesh out all the bugs and then yeah launch the android version and then probably product launched or something like that
ste (07:06.699)
yeah it's good that once it's done it's going to go real fast i mean probably we're going to get the same or maybe even less because we fix much of the like stuff related to uhpovisy i guess so if it should be good for i enjoy it should be good for ours because our enjoy that works so it's it's just a matter of submitting it that's going to be exciting you know to actually see it
adam (07:10.68)
yeah
m
adam (07:29.14)
yeah
ste (07:36.679)
when you search for high cover on the store or like enjoy just boom
adam (07:40.44)
yeah i'm like mostly sure that i haven't researches i'm much more in the apple eco system you know i have an i phone but on the android side or on the is side if you if you have subscriptions in your at um originally the role was that you couldn't sell like third party subscriptions through the through your ap in the ap store like you had to either tell people like you're gonna ave to go to the web to do this but you weren't even sup
ste (07:49.159)
the same
adam (08:10.18)
to do that you were really supposed to just not have it as an option and then people had to figure it out on their own that they had to go to the web and sign up for a subscription or buy something um so that's kind of what we initially submitted our at thinking but i think i missed like over the last ten years apple change that role to say if you have a subscription available in your you also have to have it available as a subscription as a native subscription um but i don't think that's a rule in the androidecosystem
but i'm not confident that until we read more
ste (08:45.779)
well yeah i think apple is a bit more specific with with this well that's how they're like handling things but yeah at least we have it set up we know how to do that it should be pretty smooth
adam (09:02.18)
yeah
hm
ste (09:06.619)
great
adam (09:07.98)
for a for this week m one of the things i was thinking we could chat about was so you know we talked about a lot of like the book book button like how a reader interact with the book and one of the areas that we really haven't changed since like some of the initial prototypes of heart cover are the the single book page and i feel like that's one where like a lot of
lot of book sites including us kind of have done kind of the bare minimum for it you know we list a lot of data about a book but i want to see how we can like really dream up like things that we've heard from readers or that we've heard from research that we can like show case in a just a really unique way on i have like an idea for an exercise we can do today to kind of help just pull out all those options
it's not going to be like doing any design specifically but it will be like basically creating a hierarchy like an information architecture of what we might want on the book page that will then inspire the research and designs later on
ste (10:21.659)
okay that sounds good yeah the book page is like really interesting to tackle and i don't think like any book including good reads has a good approach on the book page or on the outer page for that matter or like on any page related to the information we find about the book so if there's an opportunity for us to do it properly we should take it i mean many
adam (10:36.26)
yeah
ste (10:51.799)
the book caps i know that either have their data from google books or from good read itself their bi have pretty decent book page out as do we but i think where it gets like really tough where you get into editions where you get into information about the author where you get
two other things related about that book i think that's where everybody like loses you know that level of detail and just the book the inform you find everywhere the description a bunch of stuff about the author may be tags if you're lucky or you know if you're on heart cover or maybe other as that have the tagging system but other than that you can find like much and
adam (11:28.6)
m hm
adam (11:50.28)
yeah
ste (11:51.979)
yeah i think we have an opportunity to make that good once and for all so yeah
adam (11:59.12)
so let me share my screen here and we can kind of go over kind of what i'm thinking we can do for this
ste (12:07.539)
a
adam (12:09.42)
i'll share
adam (12:13.72)
i'll share a window for now and then i'll i'll change it so here's kind of our existing book page and in terms of like what we've heard from readers so far on like what's most important um i feel like there's there's almost like two parts of what's most important there's what's most important when i'm researching this book and i'm making that decision if i'm going to read it or not
then there's what's most important after i've read the book where i just want to like engaged with that book and kind of learned more about it you know i have i have unanswered questions from the book i want to talk about it so it's kind of like those are kind of the two main touch points that i see for this page and i think the things that people have most wanted that i've heard of are you know title serious information author information
description cover uh i've heard a lot of people asking for like um lot of people want some kind of indicator of rating and i think when i hear that i don't i don't hear like they want they want to know this book is an average of four point two stars on hard cover they want to know some kind of indicator that says what the rest of the community thinks of this book like and i feel like that concept has
whole can can be split into a lot of different solutions so i think about it like when i say rating i mean like however we figure out a good way to show case the answer to that question not necessarily rating
ste (14:00.179)
yeah that's a good one what would be part of that rating apart from the actual like stars
adam (14:07.66)
yeah i could see it as like actually and we could jump over to um let me share to share my window
adam (14:23.5)
so this is kind of what i was thinking for an exercise today is doing kind of a mind map of like parts of the book page so you could say like i'm just gonna use miss born as a
ste (14:31.779)
nice
adam (14:38.34)
example because it has series lots of diferent things so like what others think of this book
adam (14:52.94)
and maybe maybe this is actually part of
adam (14:58.54)
before i read it
ste (15:00.039)
m hm
adam (15:03.38)
and then some options there are like average rating from heart cover users
and then like
ste (15:13.199)
yeah that's one that's really easy to read i guess i know letter box does this well with that chart of ratings that they have where you can actually see the number of stars for ye as a chart
adam (15:17.04)
yeah
adam (15:22.58)
yeah
adam (15:29.38)
yeah that's a neat one um another thing his match score
ste (15:32.959)
but yeah
adam (15:38.44)
because that's based on what others think about the book too
ste (15:41.859)
yeah
adam (15:44.24)
um and these are all kind of like scores only
ste (15:52.499)
yeah these are a number so they could be like the quantitative like appreciation like if you want an average as set for the customer score that would kind of be an average but it would be more like specific to you i guess right
adam (16:11.72)
yeah and i know some of the other things we've that are talked about as possibilities are like um like custom score by let's say like pronoun like for instance we ask for like whether your identified like hem she er so we could say like this book is liked by men this much and women this much
ste (16:42.219)
yeah that would be really good because i've heard lots of people belonging to specific communities that would want people in those communities i mean they would want recommendations based on what the people in their specific communities would like so i guess that would be kind of interesting
adam (17:02.22)
yeah and likewise we could do a customs score by age since we asked for birth date
ste (17:13.399)
yeah that could be
adam (17:16.64)
by
ste (17:23.519)
i'm wondering if that couldn't be part of the the match square itself i know mariana shared screen shot i don't know i should tell it to share it on the group as well of breakdown of the match score where you would butentiually see how that match scare was calculated that's why i'm asking if it could be part of the actual match score
adam (17:48.26)
m
ste (17:53.379)
you if you would let's say that or hover over the match score you'd see okay this book was recommended one hundred percent based on your reads seventy nine percent based off people identifying the same way as you and maybe sixty percent by people in the same age or twelve percent or let's say higher percent six
persons people who have actually liked cyphie or something like that but make it part of that as square
adam (18:28.52)
yeah
adam (18:32.46)
yeah i definitely think that it makes sense as we iterate on that algorithm
ste (18:39.099)
yeah
another thing that was mentioned but i guess it would be part of another path would be the content warnings i know i had recent quarrel with one of our really yeah early users and she said that having
adam (18:42.66)
m
ste (19:11.859)
content warnings for some of the things that are important to her reading would be a thing that would definitely impact the decision to read that book and that they should be as a front even before the gen as even before the match board because even if it's like a highly recommended book but it has a content
learning that's uhtriggoring in any way you might want to avoid that book so you wouldn't like even spend time looking at the recommendations and the you know the whole aggregate of things that make that book recommended for you or like impact your decision what do you think about that
adam (20:10.undefined)
yeah i think yeah i think yeah it's like it kind of answers this question like what what's really important to me before i start reading this book that's going to either roll it in or roll it out for me and maybe another one is like um for mats available like you know if someone only listens to audio books or only reads books like is it available on audio
ste (20:23.439)
m hm
adam (20:40.92)
book et cetera
ste (20:41.239)
yeah exactly i think your feet might might have got stuck wait not your feet your screen she your window
adam (20:48.86)
oh
adam (20:53.74)
oh yeah let me try stopping it and re sharing it
ste (20:57.579)
yeah
adam (20:58.84)
i think it might do better if i do this
ste (21:07.159)
here we go you're writing the whole bunch
adam (21:09.48)
a kind of move these but let me i'll stick to this on that side because this is before you read it but it's easier to read it's easier to read left or right so let me just keep it like this
ste (21:18.259)
all i look
ste (21:22.519)
oh yeah well either way is good
adam (21:27.18)
let's see are there any other i'm thinking of other things like what do
other readers think of this book and another one is just like you know reviews
ste (21:37.939)
m hm
ste (21:43.659)
yeah reviews is a clear one and
ste (21:48.659)
here maybe having reviews from people in your network or friends or similar users first or just like having the top like to reviews at the top maybe i would be better in you know making that the decision
adam (22:08.96)
yeah or even maybe like also reviews with media so so like a if they have a youtube or a tiktok or a instagram video attached to the review
ste (22:16.919)
oh yeah
ste (22:27.119)
yeah that would be it
adam (22:30.6)
and
ste (22:30.639)
we could poetize those i mean for content creators that's going to be like really important especially anticipating the discussions of date that we're going to do
adam (22:47.64)
and this could also be by um age by gender so similar similar on different different assignments
ste (22:54.779)
yep
ste (22:58.159)
yeah
adam (22:59.16)
or even by by genres
ste (23:06.599)
yeah exactly yeah
adam (23:06.98)
that they read like what do other cyphireaders think of this book like people who have read a lot of cytha what do they think of this book
ste (23:15.339)
oh yeah exactly yeah that could tie really well with badges as well but yeah for another
adam (23:22.9)
yeah
adam (23:31.76)
yeah this this one right here is really interesting to me because this is that dada that we've started collecting but we haven't done anything with it's when we show when when we have a lot of like links for like this review has a tiktok or this review has a you tube video attached to it
ste (23:49.379)
yeah i'm wondering there i mean from experience perspective if we could actually in the case of tiktok and you tube video as actually in bed the media itself so that yeah okay that that'd be really really good i think would be the only place where you could actually see collection of media in the form of reviews
adam (24:05.12)
yeah
ste (24:19.659)
multiple places because if you're on book talk you only get to see book talk videos if you're on your tube you only get to see you yeah you tubevideos for reviews if you are on booktwether you only see posts related to that but yeah would be place where where you can actually see any media either if it's like real or a block post were
adam (24:38.08)
yeah
adam (24:49.08)
yeah on one thing that as you're as you were saying that it reminded me that one thing that's come up for how people like investigate that page to find reviews is that you know there are so many reviews for a book that most people that i've talked to either like look at the five star reviews and like the one star reviews that way they can kind of get to both sides so it makes me wonder about like what would an experience be that like says here's what people like about the book here's what
ste (25:09.479)
thanks
yeah
adam (25:19.14)
don't like about the book and and it's and it's not even maybe it's not even um it's not even showing the reviews maybe it's like training a n p model on all the reviews and pulling out the good parts and the bad parts that are common themes amongst all of their reviews
ste (25:38.459)
that would be seeking great
adam (25:41.24)
i guess i guess this is like
ste (25:43.659)
i was i was going to ask if you were thinking about something involving tags associated with reviews but actually yeah having a model trained with that data is way more interesting
adam (26:01.08)
and probably the v p of that is just you know showing some five star and showing the highest and lowest terviews it's you know
ste (26:15.459)
yeah
ste (26:19.599)
yeah i mean the highest rated or most like reviews for five stars and one star i mean i usually do that when checking out like anything like if i buy something from like anywhere that's how i do it so guess that that's the way people do it with with books but if you could extract actually like qualitative data from from from that
and have like that sort of in but i'm wondering if i mean i think even with the models that are available right now the ones from opening i think you can train them on subsetit of data right so one subset could easily be the reviews in our system i guess
adam (27:14.48)
yeah
yeah this i think i think like this is like an overview of a book like ben able to just look at an overview and see like a couple of bullet points like people love great characters amazing settings they don't like you know slow middlepacing
ste (27:26.019)
hm
ste (27:31.439)
yeah exactly or yeah is where the content works could go or those could be like even generated based on be based on that
adam (27:36.64)
yeah
that's true
adam (27:45.88)
yeah that would be a good place for that too
adam (27:58.44)
and this rating histogram it could be like overall or
by demographics
ste (28:05.859)
the histocrap is the chart similar to letter box or is it that's the story right okay i don't have like my charts my chart names really that's let's say yeah internalized so if that that's okay so you can sort it as well that would be nice
adam (28:11.38)
yeah
adam (28:23.88)
yeah
ste (28:30.419)
by demographics and by gender that that
adam (28:38.74)
yeah
adam (28:42.34)
or even something else could be like by similarity so like this wouldn't be a histogram this would be more of a different kind of chart but we could come up with some visualization that show cases like similar people to me are up here and this is there rating
ste (29:02.659)
okay yeah so something that's user based on you basically get like your proximity to other readers right
adam (29:12.86)
yeah not sure what that would look like exactly but that would be a chart some kind of i don't know could be scattered chart or something but
ste (29:25.799)
yeah
adam (29:26.66)
something that goes into similarity could be fun
ste (29:29.959)
yeah definite
adam (29:35.42)
let's see so anything else like i think i think we're good here unless you have anything else that's a top of mine
ste (29:43.979)
what about where would discussions like what people have actually been talking about the book or the author or the character where would that i ten is that like a separate thing or i mean in my mind it could i mean it's definitely qualitative you're looking at what people have been discussing about the book
adam (29:59.92)
yeah
ste (30:13.239)
and you're trying to make a decision based off of that you're maybe from asking a few things know who is if like any book at has that functionality that amazon has where you could ask a question about the book so you know that amazon has this thing on their products where now you look for toilet plunger and someone asks is it don't know does it have a wooden handle and people
adam (30:22.28)
yeah
adam (30:42.9)
m hm
ste (30:43.239)
and its answer and i don't know where i saw this actually yeah yeah but someone asked if this was available on any platform for books i don't know if i s are discord but it doesn't matter uh yeah asking a question could be like one one yeah or actually just like writing anything
adam (30:48.44)
yeah i know i know amazon has it
adam (31:00.16)
m
adam (31:05.32)
yeah
that would be great
ste (31:13.339)
you want to know about the book and tagging either yeah the book basically i was thinking about telling the author as well but you know it could be about any other book but yeah asking the question about the book could be a way of finding that that pacific for you you're looking for
adam (31:34.98)
yeah and i guess there's answering your question but that's i'll just add that as a someone's going to have to answer it
ste (31:42.639)
oh yeah yeah exactly or it could be on the same
ste (31:52.259)
let's say it could have the same solution as the
best worst snippets generated from a model where you can ask and the answer could be auto generated by a model trained uh on that book data
adam (32:12.64)
it could be
you know there's an option where like the first comment could be like an auto generated answer and they can either accept it or not accept it you know kind almost like a i know with a stack overflow right now they've been playing with this idea knowstckoverflows of site where developers ask questions they've been laying with the idea like what if we have a model that answers that question as the top answer and we see if that's up loaded nd i think they did an experiment and the quality of answers
ste (32:21.159)
yeah
yeah
ste (32:32.219)
yeah
adam (32:45.28)
is so bad that they took that feature out so but yeah it's gonna i mean those are very difficult questions with the developer questions these could it really depends on what these are like for but this could be fun to just see what the answers that are generated are
ste (32:48.859)
wow
ste (32:54.939)
exactly
ste (33:04.179)
yeah they could be wrong i mean i know that you know for code generally you know goes so i mean i know that funny story that where someone was posted posting on stack overflow and they were replying to themselves with something that was obviously wrong just because developers correcting others and it worked every time so yeah i guess why that would happen in the developer but yeah
adam (33:26.5)
yeah
ste (33:34.319)
very developer space but i'm curious to what would happen with actual like books yeah it might invent things i've asked i've been using chegipit and i've asked it to give me no books about the world ending and books that are written by queer author that right cyphi
adam (33:39.84)
yeah same
ste (34:04.339)
i've got really good answers for that but i don't know if some of the stuff just made up or i mean you'd have to double check it it invented way more things at the beginning now it's stopped inventing because they're fine tuning it and it will definitely get better i think by the end of the year it would actually be able to verify itself
adam (34:20.56)
yeah it's
ste (34:34.459)
uh or like evil prompt itself to not invent things if you actually ask it did you invent that it's honest and it tells you i made that up and you lie
adam (34:44.64)
uh
adam (34:48.78)
yeah reminded me like some things are like what was your favorite chapter of the book we don't really care what chat g b t thinks is their favorite chapter of the book
ste (34:58.039)
yeah exactly not into that kind of stuff although yeah
adam (35:01.52)
yeah this is more like yeah it could pull out the common favorites amongst the data that it's trained on but then you're then you're only as good as whatever their training model is
ste (35:14.039)
yeah exactly
adam (35:16.8)
um yeah let's see so discussions
adam (35:23.14)
one of the things with discussions that i was really interested in happens like not before reading it but more like after reading it which is like
kind of or even during reading it which is like um
like like tying discussion to a point in the book like basically saying i am thirty per cent of the way done with this book and i'm asking a question that should only be answered by people who have read thirty per cent of the book it seems like a hard problem because uh like so many questions i see on on book subbredit are like here's a very serious question but no spoilers
ste (36:01.319)
yeah
adam (36:14.82)
i don't know if i'm supposed to even know the answer to this or maybe this answer comes later in the book
go ahead
ste (36:21.239)
yeah that's a tough one if we'd actually nail tracking so you could actually have readers know there like at page one hundred or the thirty persons on on an audio book you could actually yeah tie that in and it would sort of become like a book i think that kind of like
it's similar to what we talked about when we tackled a single book clubs so that could be in that area but it could definitely be ithi'mthinking although to put it in a separate like main branch like wild reading and after read
adam (37:09.08)
yeah true let's say while reading and then
ste (37:19.959)
i think the screen chair might have frozen again
adam (37:22.undefined)
i can't oh yeahyeat
ste (37:33.939)
here we go
ste (37:40.839)
and should we get the before reading part done and then jump into a reading or yeah okay let's let's let's see if we have anything other than yeah
adam (37:47.12)
yeah
and i have a feeling like what should i know about this book
ste (37:57.559)
m well
maybe the edition comes in here what edition are you actually or now what edition would you now the edition doesn't i mean you're actually buying any edition you find right unless you're really passionate about editions but you probably yeah
adam (38:16.08)
yeah
adam (38:19.7)
yeah that could yeah that could come in as like yeah right because there's kind of like a missing step because there's like i've just learned about the book i'm making a decision if i want to even save it for later and then the addition to me comes into play when it's like okay i've decided to read this book now now i really care about what addition it is because then i'm like finding a finding a copy of it
ste (38:38.879)
yeah
ste (38:42.399)
yeah exactly i'm guessing that's a sub set of readers go so most people would like actually by the most popular edition and they would only change it if they're like specific about editions but yeah that that can be
adam (39:02.16)
yeah i think like page page count or you know book length you know
ste (39:08.439)
yeah exactly where to find it i mean where is it actually available that would be interesting if we could show especially sources which are independent libraries if we can make that happen at some point i'm guessing it would be an incentive for independent libraries to also get in touch with us and
ste (39:39.599)
figure out
adam (39:39.68)
you said you said like availability
ste (39:42.099)
yeah availability
adam (39:44.44)
yeah like
local libraries
ste (39:51.899)
yeah maybe even lab integrations could work or maybe or any other library where you would actually be able to borrow the book
adam (40:02.12)
right yeah i i've reached out to overdrive a couple of times who's the creator of libby to try to get a p i access to their data base and they've basically told me that it's only for like major integrations um so i think the way to do something like this is going to be to use some of the same code that's in there's this a m crome fire fox extension
ste (40:19.039)
k
adam (40:32.5)
that well look at different book sites like good reads story graph and it tells you whether that book is available i think we might be able to like it's it's also open source so i could probably like dig into how they do that behind the scenes
ste (40:39.879)
okay
ste (40:47.419)
oh yeah that would be nice so that covers like every source or multiple sources at least
adam (40:55.46)
right at at least for the library side not so much for like
ste (40:56.579)
yeah
adam (41:04.78)
like buying it
ste (41:06.519)
yeah
adam (41:12.02)
yeah
ste (41:15.139)
yeah an audible definitely
adam (41:20.4)
yeah like it was on i have to figure out like all the different book stores and all the different like physical copy stores like a
ste (41:27.039)
uh huh
adam (41:36.22)
yeah just
ste (41:36.399)
yeah bookshop yeah water that's not the leos what's the us book chain that's like after amazon the largest one
adam (41:46.3)
ah probably like burns and noble
ste (41:48.719)
burns and okay okay they have
adam (41:51.44)
and they also have like an e reader also
ste (41:54.319)
okay okay what do they have an a p
adam (41:57.36)
i don't know but
ste (41:58.539)
uh uh
i doubt it
adam (42:04.58)
another thing is for sure like series information like this one comes up a ton like is this is this the first book in the series is this the third book like is the series finished
ste (42:09.399)
yeah oh yes this is a big one
ste (42:14.559)
yeah yeah
it may quickly look at the
ste (42:24.079)
book page list we had okay so there's the technical import ize beyond the idea the publisher but you know most readers wouldn't be boltered by at the format where would the current readers of the book whose currently reading it maybe that could be shown especially if they're like in your network or you could have
adam (42:49.46)
m
ste (42:53.959)
a separation like five of your friends and another one thousand people on her cover reading this book
adam (42:59.64)
yeah
adam (43:04.02)
yeah let's add another question for like what are others i guess it's i guess that's part of what do other readers know it's not it's not what they think about it it's like it's like who else
ste (43:16.099)
yeah what they're actually yeah who decided to read this yeah
adam (43:24.36)
yeah because in you like you said you have a
adam (43:29.9)
people i follow people who follow me you have
adam (43:39.8)
all of hard cover and then like you said it's kind of like um currently reading you kind of have this this whole thing for like
adam (43:54.14)
um who's reading and like um what's their status
adam (44:07.4)
who i don't even know what that is
ste (44:09.539)
no it's pretty nifty how f gem just merges this together
adam (44:19.44)
oh i'm just using this mind node which is a
ste (44:22.639)
oh mind no kay oh crap okay it has the same coms mind now i'm gonna write that why i think it was free and doesn't look like at all like
adam (44:25.56)
really good one
adam (44:33.54)
i wouldn't be surprised at this point
ste (44:36.079)
yeah
adam (44:38.04)
um yeah because like for these
like you might want to read all of your all of the reviews by all the people that you follow
first i think i feel like that would be the most important thing is like what did my what did the people i care about most think of this book
ste (44:57.319)
yeah
ste (45:03.419)
yeah exactly and it would also open the opportunity to read it together like a book like although i mean especially for people who were actually all the hair cover it could give us the opportunity to create new connections like someone in another part of the world is reading this may be though
adam (45:12.5)
m
ste (45:33.359)
to readers can connect and read it together if there's like any indication of their progress or it could be it
adam (45:42.72)
yeah it would be like um
ste (45:50.759)
yeah yeah are share up late at the same time i'm guessing at
adam (45:55.1)
maybe that's like down here
ste (46:01.439)
yeah
adam (46:02.9)
i guess it kind of falls under both but yeah
ste (46:06.579)
yeah exactly
adam (46:13.16)
and yeah i think for some of this like there's the opportunity to do like i don't think it makes sense to do like a quantitative groupings of data like your average friends rating is a four point three because for most books unless you have a ton of friends m it's not really going to matter
ste (46:37.119)
yeah yeah and in general i think we should all his data down to things which you are bound to get like really fast without having to you know think about how clear that piece of information is i think that's the main problem with average book scores because it's so so so subjective as an experience you know you really have to like real the review from someone who is like
basically thinking on the same level as you think having the same let's say content earnings in mind having the same taste in what what what they like and you know when that someone writes review that's actually useful but that's like the ideal case you mostly get like degrees less than the ideal at all times so i'm guessing how we can
adam (47:32.18)
m hm
ste (47:37.039)
say corroborate like all this po into like spurting out something that's as relevant to their subjective taste as possible would be like interesting
adam (47:50.86)
yeah for like the all of hard cover part for instance sorting that by like their match score the user to us our match score so that we're showing um we're showing you people with a very similar tastes that are also reading it or that did read it
ste (48:07.599)
yeah exactly yeah and prioritizing it i mean not even i may be even like remove soiling and just prioritize it in the way we show it so that we kind of make a favorable environment for those those connections to to happen i'm guessing that's like the sweet spot like really where we want someone to like magically feel like oh look wow there exactly
as i think exactly as i do they wrote the exact things i'm interested in finding out and they don't know that that in the back and we're doing like all sorts of things like the mat score are actually like selecting how we show stuff through the u but it feels that that that way to them
adam (48:58.82)
yeah so we're not showing like review bombers as the top things that's like last on the list
ste (49:03.759)
yeah yeah exactly i mean every other platform just that if we have an opportunity to do different things yeah definite they i mean we're clearly like in a position to take
adam (49:23.58)
i know we want like genera information um and this one this one seems like this idea of like a weighted genera like you know this one this book is this much i this much fantasy this much so like if all of the genera are equal then you it's hard to tell like this book is more this is more fantasy than syphi or this is
ste (49:27.679)
yeah
adam (49:53.32)
or thriller than romance um so like waiting them accordingly helps to understand as a raider like okay what am i getting into here
ste (50:04.359)
yeah yeah definitely i'm guessing maybe we could use the same thing we use the number that we're going to use for the tagging system for generals moods and tags where you show a number next the let's say genera that that book was associated with so let's say it's a sifibook that had was tagged with
if i buy a thousand people you'd get that like as the first yeah something like that and also showed the number like one
adam (50:40.undefined)
exactly
adam (50:47.52)
and then we also have like lists and prompts like like a
ste (50:52.559)
oh yeah
ste (50:57.559)
that's
adam (50:57.6)
top
book marked list maybe like most answered or maybe like highest
adam (51:10.44)
prompt score so it's like a
this book is number three in top fantasy of all time something like that
ste (51:25.179)
yeah that's good
adam (51:31.92)
fix my quotes here
adam (51:40.24)
i think
i think like one of the other areas of like book data or a lot of the other areas of book data i feel like come in after they've read it when they are more like okay now i know about this book i know about the world i really want to dig into like individual characters or things like that but i'm wondering like what other things come to mind like before they have started a book and i had this is like
some research i did earlier on different like things that people are searching for
ste (52:22.819)
okay this is really good
okay
adam (52:26.98)
but it does feel like most of these come after the fact like you're not going to be searching for pride and prejudice fan fiction if you haven't read pride and prejudice
ste (52:34.719)
yeah well yeah most fitly there might be some windows out there but who knows
adam (52:37.3)
yeah
adam (52:41.6)
summary summary is a good one like don't think we have that
ste (52:43.819)
yeah yeah the summary the summer is bad i mean yeah we left off out the obvious ones summaries are usually like all over the place i'm wondering if we can actually use some kind of processing on the actual summaries to make them more relevant
adam (53:10.28)
yeah yeah there's there's a i had an idea for this one because right now we're getting like summaries from google books and open library
ste (53:11.639)
mean yeah
ste (53:20.979)
yeah those are a mess usually
adam (53:23.02)
and then i think like the other options like you said are like generated from like chat g p t or something and another another option is as a discussion prompt where we say like um maybe there's like a thread which is like uh like i'm imagining one of these things like asking a question where the question is like give a summary of
ste (53:30.219)
yeah and yeah
adam (53:52.7)
this book and then and then the most liked response from that is like a summary that we could use up here it's
ste (53:53.839)
uh huh
ste (54:02.879)
oh yeah definitely also kind of mentioned librarians for this one in case it i mean it could actually be tight discussion from but yeah yeah that's that's that's a good idea
ste (54:28.179)
and the author yeah especially i've seen the views of an author might matter like a lot in that decision so you've heard like really high praise of the book but you know the author things things that are like on the opposite and what your beliefs are so
adam (54:55.14)
m yeah
ste (54:57.919)
might not or at least you need that information to decide if you're going to read the book
adam (55:03.58)
yeah there are books i've read that after the fact i'm like i probably wouldn't have read that if i knew this about the author
ste (55:11.859)
yeah yeah there are some
adam (55:16.88)
yeah and also like
yeah there's there's a lot of questions for authors like um i know a lot of people like to read like smaller authors or they only read like really popular books so it's just like
ste (55:33.299)
yeah
ste (55:39.099)
yeah
adam (55:47.58)
let's see what there are other things on here
series
adam (55:58.undefined)
yeah some of some of these get into like this combination of like books plus t v and movies where people are are learning about the book after the movie or t v series comes out and then they're like going to read the book so some of these might not even be things that we it makes sense for us to tackle at all because there are more movie questions
ste (56:12.839)
m hm
ste (56:20.219)
yeah
true that could be part of the discussions i mean if readers talk about a book that's been adapted into a movie and they do that under discussions by taking the book if those discussions appear under the book i'm guessing like the sweet spot here would be first for someone who really wants to make that decision fast whether they like to read the book or not
give them the top for they be interested in but also allow them to take as deep as they want if they want to spend more time and arrange the hierarchy of this information so that we have that info for making a fast decision up top like probably is going to be the summary the ratings if we get some things like
adam (57:15.16)
m
ste (57:22.719)
read their reviews or summaries of readers reviews or like key words and that kind of stuff that definitely you know stuff that you can see at a glance i think if you can like decide if you want to read the book in two seconds by looking at the book page on hard cover that's like a win but then if you want to like really get deep into it and may be even talk though people while you're reading the book before you're reading the book
have that level as well so kind of like go from a visual irarchy putting the most important info for fast browsing up top and then having the other
ste (58:12.659)
uh yeah yeah exactly and showing the most important stuff
adam (58:13.54)
yeah being able to dig deep if you want to
yeah
adam (58:22.78)
yeah and speaking of that we probably need to show like the book cover
ste (58:29.979)
oh yeah the book cover that yeah that's really hat's really important in judging you know the decision on the edition you're gonna make yeah
adam (58:43.7)
and also also like my status for this book like you know have i already already saved it
or like already um interacted with it in any way it could even be like um
list i've book marked this book is on or like prompts i've answered this book is on
ste (59:17.519)
yeah
ste (59:25.059)
yeah
ste (59:32.119)
what would you say like is the most instinctively what's the most important thing when you're reading a book or let's say the three most important things
adam (59:45.32)
m
for me it would be
like the description like that's number one most important like that's gonna either get me hyped to read the book or not um and then
ste (59:54.459)
yeah
adam (01:00:06.32)
uh i think genres for me like i'm very much a gen reader like if it's like i like knowing what i'm getting into like is this going to be am i getting into a fantasy world am i getting into a non fiction biography like you can read a description and still wonder like is this is this fantasy or is this like h you know something else
ste (01:00:31.499)
yeah yeah that's that's really good
adam (01:00:35.06)
and then third ah
adam (01:00:44.24)
i think ideally i would like it to be like what others think about the book in some way like you know based on based on what others think about the book like what's my match score going to be um do people with similar interest as me love it or not like i feel like that would be like next on the list
ste (01:00:49.439)
uh huh
ste (01:01:00.639)
uh uh
ste (01:01:05.319)
that's really good that's really good and do you think that would be valid for most readers like just instinctively just like thinking of what we know about the people we talked to about high cover
adam (01:01:07.28)
for
adam (01:01:22.6)
i think those would be towards the top i think the other things i've heard are that people only read books that are like maybe maybe the favorite books that are in a series so they would it would be really important to know if it was in a series or they only read books that are like really long or really short so they want to know the length of the book or they're focusing on new books so they only want they want to know the release state
ste (01:01:42.419)
yeah
ste (01:01:48.679)
yeah that's a good one yeah
adam (01:01:51.72)
yeah what about you what what jumps out to you when you're like evaluating a book
ste (01:01:57.979)
well it's pretty much the same i guess with some like small differences so the first one is definitely the description that basically needs to be really on point so i'm thinking this is may be our main party to make sure the descriptions we have on the side for the books are good because some of them that we get especially for a mob library nor even
go books normalized them in a way that you know you'd be able to read summary in like ten seconds max so it has like maybe three or four rows we have descriptions which are half a page long descriptions which are too rose long and i think we should aim to have those normalized as much as possible so yeah definitely the description
adam (01:02:42.06)
m
ste (01:02:57.279)
ah then genera maybe yeah genera wouldn't be like my second place but the actual subject of the book so if it's a word maybe like to read that because that's a subject i inter o it's not general but maybe attack or it could be a mood uh on
the same level as this it could be writing style so there are a lot of books that looks that annoy me because of their writing style it's either it relates to the face of the book but also to the actual like way there they're written so if i could find the quotes from that book or i could see someone discussing that that would be like pretty important for me to see if it's a book i'm into
adam (01:03:49.96)
m
ste (01:03:57.119)
within let's say ye know
someone likes how hunter thompson writes like really fast based and in that like or my anger let's say they like those like two different writings that's how are they going to know how that book is written yeah so yeah writing stuff i guess that would be like quotes i guess that would be like the easiest way to go
so our book highlights to see actual like passages from that book uh yeah and the third or fourth let's say uh maybe
ste (01:04:48.979)
less popular but definitely i know some people do this including myself the cover so i am judging some books by their cover what you're going to do if the cover is really nice you know for instance look at this japanese not like really good cover really good cover i'm a designer really good type face this is good so instance
adam (01:05:00.1)
uh yeah
adam (01:05:08.9)
m m
m hm
adam (01:05:16.5)
m h
ste (01:05:18.999)
like look at this see really nice cover
adam (01:05:24.22)
m nice
ste (01:05:26.259)
really yeah so
adam (01:05:28.1)
yeah and it feels like if a cover is like if you see a book over and over again what you're really seeing is most likely the cover over and over again so it could be like this cover becomes familiar because i've seen it on lots of different lists in lots of different places so yeah it's it's it's kind of the avatar of the book i mean it's it's what you remember if you haven't read the book at least some people do some people remember the concept but a lot of people
ste (01:05:50.019)
yeah
yeah exactly
adam (01:05:58.7)
see the book cover more often than they hear the description
ste (01:06:02.739)
yeah exactly i mean it's like base line like visual like relating to the book visually that's the first thing you relate to so uh yeah definitely i think that's like an important one
adam (01:06:17.56)
m
adam (01:06:22.22)
well i think this is a good a good stopping for for the day for kind of getting out some of our top topics for before reading i think i think if we do the same exercise for like when making a decision while reading and after reading then we can probably start like prioritizing which areas are going to be the most important
yeah go from there
ste (01:06:54.699)
yeah this is a really good exercise yeah it's shown things that you know we've haven't we haven't like even considered before and we've been at this i mean in the first situation of like the book page for hard cover and we've been at it right now because we've already gone through that huge list and look at this where like already doing it again and there's like stuff coming out
uh yeah it's sprite
adam (01:07:28.28)
yeah this is like one of the early prototypes where we had um like discussions we were like what if we put discussions here as like the top thing that people see even before reviews and people one of the feedback we got on this was that before i read the book i would be more likely to read or review and then after i read the book i would be more likely to read a discussion
ste (01:07:36.239)
uh huh
adam (01:07:57.9)
but more likely isn't a binary thing some people are going to want to do both at any time
ste (01:07:57.999)
yeah
ste (01:08:05.179)
yeah exactly yeah and another thing that comes into play here is people are already having like those discussions on facebook on winter about books on read it on tick talk but the nature of the discussions is like really different so if you say you want like discover new books you'd probably get the same answers from all of those platforms because you'd get like the most
popular books and people would just be like crowding their discussions on various platforms on those so i guess figuring out what to show so people can discover new books and they can make new connections and they can like find out about new things to read that they wouldn't find out otherwise i think that's like one of our mission
adam (01:08:48.04)
yeah
adam (01:09:02.16)
yeah
ste (01:09:05.099)
s here
adam (01:09:06.84)
yeah and one thing that i'm kind of excited about with discussions which i think will be a big part of it is that we could have like a page by genera for instance like a fantasy discussion page and that shows discussions from every book that's part of the fantasy genera and then you could maybe have a filter for you know books i've read and then it just shows you know a discussion thing that shows
ste (01:09:15.379)
yeah
adam (01:09:36.62)
all your discussions or books you've read like it's not going to be just on this book page it's going to be other pages on the site too but we just have to figure out how that will work but it seems like starting at the book discussions is the best place to start that idea
ste (01:09:47.179)
yeah
ste (01:09:53.699)
yeah it's all around books
and when people like fleet iter or or book ter or like platforms which kind of happens i mean i'm seeing it happen like more and more they're going to need a place which we were actually that has been figured out so i guess that's what we're trying to do here
adam (01:10:13.6)
uh yeah
ste (01:10:17.639)
cool yeah till next week next week i think i'm going to be in coin so yeah maybe will postpone it tuesday but yeah we can talk about it perfect great well have a good and yeah
adam (01:10:18.28)
cool well good chat yeah
yeah
adam (01:10:34.undefined)
sounds good i'm down i'm down for that
cool
cool see you later invite