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If you’re curious about cryptocurrencies, don’t miss this fascinating conversation on the myths and truths of cryptocurrencies. Are they here to stay? Who is driving their popularity? And will cryptocurrencies replace traditional monies? Rachel Cannon, partner at Steptoe and Johnson LLP, has some answers.
A podcast where innovative business leaders discuss data: how to think about, how to use it and how it can help us all make better business decisions every day. As they tell their stories of trials and triumphs, you’ll gain key insights to leverage in your own day-to-day operations.
Data Dialogues
Steptoe Transcript
Rissa Reddan (00:01):
Welcome to the Data Dialogues podcast brought to you by Equifax. My name is Rissa Redden, and I am your host. Given the economic disruptions that have come about as a result of the pandemic, it's no surprise that we're seeing more and more headlines about cryptocurrency. I'm delighted to have this opportunity to get into the topic with an expert. I am joined today by Rachel Cannon partner at Steptoe and Johnson LLP. Welcome, Rachel.
Rachel Cannon (00:25):
Thank you, Rissa. Thrilled to be here.
Rissa Reddan (00:28):
For our listeners today, could you please introduce yourself and give a bit of your background?
Rachel Cannon (00:33):
Sure. So I am a partner at Steptoe and Johnson, which is a large global law firm. My background is as a federal prosecutor. I spent over a decade prosecuting federal crimes in the Chicago US attorney's office. And now I practice in the area of white collar criminal defense and litigation, and also cryptocurrencies. Hence our being together today to discuss this fascinating topic. And I mostly focus on the regulatory aspects surrounding cryptocurrencies.
Rissa Reddan (01:03):
And how did you first get interested in cryptocurrency? What piqued your interest and led to the specialization that you have now?
Rachel Cannon (01:11):
So it's funny. I live in the northern suburbs of Chicago and before the pandemic used to always take the train into work every day commuting. And in some ways I always felt that that was kind of like a black hole of lost time. And so, I would read the newspaper and try to do other things. And I was reading the wall street journal on the train ride in one day. And I remember this very vividly because I remember reading an article on cryptocurrencies. This was probably in 2017. And I thought to myself, when I read the article, this is fascinating. This is another form of money that has basically sprung up, sprung up out of nowhere. That is kind of taking the world by storm and is transforming the way that the entire globe does business. And so the immediate question that came to mind was, is this going to be something that's here to stay, or is this going to be a fad?
Rachel Cannon (02:03):
And I remember, I think going home that night, or shortly thereafter and talking to my parents on the phone and telling them how interesting I thought this was. And they were like, crypto, what? I mean, they could barely pronounce the word. They were like, it's a fake, it's a digital form of money. Why would anybody do this? And when I would talk to friends and colleagues, most people kind of had the same perception. And so I really thought, well, we'll see if this goes anywhere or is just a fad. And here we are in 2022, it's definitely not a fad. When you have regulators like the federal reserve, looking at how we can bring cryptocurrencies into the main US financial system, I think that's a pretty good sign that cryptocurrencies are here to stay.
Rissa Reddan (02:49):
And Rachel, I think that you are spot on. It is fascinating. I think that you're spot on, there are a lot of people that don't quite understand cryptocurrency. Can you break it down for us a little bit, sort of maybe a little bit of how cryptocurrency got started and a little bit about what it is?
Rachel Cannon (03:06):
Sure. So I think in the most basic terms, cryptocurrency really is like another form of money. And so just as you have cash and you have credit cards, you have checkbooks and you have all these different systems for paying bills for example. Cryptocurrency can function in exactly that kind of way. It's kind of evolved into different uses. There are now, NFTs, and there's all sorts of other things we can, we can talk about, but at base, a lot of cryptocurrency is essentially like a, a form of money. And it really came into being around 2008. Bitcoin was the first cryptocurrency. It's still, I think probably the most well known. It's a little unclear who founded Bitcoin. It's always been attributable to a gentleman named Satochi Nakamoto, but it's unclear if he's a real person. If he's like a conglomerate of people. Who exactly he is, if it is a “he”? But, but 2008 is when Bitcoin came into being and it came in response to the crash of the financial mark markets and sort of the perception that mainstream currencies tied to the US government really weren't as great perhaps as they're cracked up to be.
Rachel Cannon (04:32):
And now here we are more than a decade later, there are, I think over 1500 different forms of cryptocurrency, which is I think about almost 10 times as many forms as Fiat currency. There are roughly 180 forms of Fiat currency that are recognized around the world. And we are seeing more and more businesses evolving to accept payment in cryptocurrency. People, obtaining cryptocurrency wallets, and using it as a form of payment for everyday goods and services. And then we seek, we're now seeing kind of a rise in what I'll call tokens and things that you can do with tokens. Tokens being something similar to cryptocurrency, but that can function as a, like a reward system or non-fungible tokens, which we can talk about out which can be tied to digital works of art. So it's kind of branched off into all these different directions, but for just simple purposes for purposes of, of talking today, I, I like to think of it as another form of money.
Rissa Reddan (05:34):
Perfect. And you mentioned that businesses are getting into cryptocurrency, who else is looking at cryptocurrency or is getting more engaged with crypto and, and why?
Rachel Cannon (05:44):
So I, I think the question almost is, is who, who isn't? So we've got all kinds of people calling us wanting to know, can they accept cryptocurrency payment and cryptocurrency, , what are the risks associated with that? Do they have to kind of do anything special to make sure they don't run a file of various laws or regulations? Are there different regulations in different jurisdictions? But you see all kinds of service providers accepting payment in cryptocurrency. Steptoe, for example, accepts payment in cryptocurrency. You see mainstream consumer goods accepting payment in cryptocurrency. You can go to overstock.com and buy things in cryptocurrency. A lot of the newspapers you can sign up for subscriptions in cryptocurrency. You can go a subway and pay in cryptocurrency. So it really is kind of becoming more and more mainstream. And I don't know if you've seen these kiosks. There are like cryptocurrency kiosks now in malls and gas stations that, that almost are like ATMs. So it really is becoming more and more mainstream. Is it quite mainstream? Probably not. I mean, we don't think of cryptocurrency like we think of our credit cards or our checkbooks, but I think we're headed in that direction.
Rissa Reddan (07:10):
And when you're approached about the risks of cryptocurrency, what do you say what are the risks associated there, or what are the things that people should be mindful of prior to accepting cryptocurrency as a form of payment?
Rachel Cannon (07:28):
Yeah, that's a really good question. So first and foremost, it, it depends exactly what your business is and kind of what you want to do with cryptocurrency and how you plan to accept it. And what goods you're providing or services in exchange for cryptocurrency. So, we have to kind of take a holistic look at exactly what the factual picture is. But some of the concerns that have evolved around cryptocurrency, which are fair, have to do with the fact that it's got this reputation and perception as being a tool for criminals. So that's kind of one issue which we can talk about. And then another issue is, is hacking. Because cryptocurrencies are stored on the blockchain, which is kind of like the digital ether, you do have to be very careful about hacking and unless you've got the right system, the right kind of system set up at your company, or you're working with a reputable exchange who, who has secure wallet people who, who kind of hold and carry and transact in cryptocurrencies are always vulnerable to hacking. But of course, everybody's vulnerable to hacking even if you're not dealing with cryptocurrencies.
Rachel Cannon (08:53):
But, just going back to the is cryptocurrencies for criminals? That’s, I think kind of a bad rap that cryptocurrency has got that, that stems from its early days. To be sure criminals have historically enjoyed using cryptocurrency as ransomware, as a way of disguising the source of funds for things. As part of money laundering schemes. So, so those criticisms are definitely fair. And that's why we see the department of justice creating a cryptocurrency task force, for example, to, to combat all of those problems. But the fact of the matter is most my money laundering is done with regular money. The kind that you get out of a bank, not with cryptocurrencies. And as cryptocurrencies have kind of become more and more mainstream, and as they've evolved and as people have begun to understand how they're used and the compliance risks associated with them, we're developing better and better tools to prevent them from being used in nefarious ways.
Rissa Reddan (10:02):
Rachel, you touched a little bit on sort of the myth of cryptocurrency. Are there any other myths around cryptocurrency that need to be explored? Or that we need to be more focused on the reality versus the myth of cryptocurrency?
Rachel Cannon (10:16):
Yeah, I think the other big myth that's out there is, is that it is a fad, and that it's going to go away. And I, I don't think it's going to go away for a couple reasons. So first I, I think people in their forties, fifties, sixties, and older, , I, I think it's hard for lot of people in that age group, particularly Americans to really see the value and benefit of cryptocurrency. Because for example, we, we live in America. It's got a stable government, we have a stable economy. The US dollar isn't subject to wild swings and inflation , we're confident and that, , whatever political party is in power, when we put our money in our bank, we don't worry that, that party's gonna swoop in and take it. So for us, it seems kind of ridiculous to have an alternative money system.
Rachel Cannon (11:09):
But if you live in a country that doesn't have a stable government or a stable economy, or where the currency your country uses, is subject to wild swings and inflation and it costs a million whatevers to buy a gallon of milk. Then it, all of a sudden becomes very appealing to be able to tap into a cryptocurrency, which you can essentially buy with an iPhone and use at stores and places. And that is much more stable. So, that's kind of one reason I think cryptocurrencies are really not going anywhere because whatever the thoughts of mainstream Americans are globally, it's just kind of revolutionizes the rest of the world. The other reason I think cryptocurrencies are not going anywhere, and again, this is directed towards the age comment, is there's a whole generation behind me that enjoys gaming. And anybody who has young kids knows one of the biggest struggles you face as a parent is to prevent your kid from getting addicted to video games and trying to monitor and police video games.
Rachel Cannon (12:22):
But people under 30 are very familiar with what I'll call the metaverse and this idea of having an alternative form of money out there like Roblox, for example. That just kind of makes intuitive sense to young people. And so we have this whole generation of young people who spend their free time engaging with the metaverse, transacting in units of money on the metaverse. And to them, that all seems normal and they enjoy that. And it's fun. And so when you have these young gamers and techies who are very used to the idea of virtual money, it's easy to understand why they would want to use virtual money in their day to day lives. And, for that reason, I think that's just going to continue to be a driving force to fold cryptocurrencies into the mainstream, that entire generation.
Rissa Reddan (13:22):
That's fascinating. And, I know when we were talking about this podcast, Rachel, you had shared with me an example that I would love to revisit with you. And it was essentially a community and I'm not the country in which this took place, but it was a community that was concerned about or perhaps didn't trust a bank that was located in this community. And so sought to identify an alternative. Could you share that example?
Rachel Cannon (13:51):
Absolutely. So this was actually I read a, about this in another Wall Street Journal article. So this was a community in Russia, a, a small village in Russia who was really struggling with the, the banking system because the, the bank was essentially offering these villagers loans at extortionate rates. And this wasn't an extremely wealthy out in the middle of Russia to begin with. And so to get around these problems they essentially came up with their own form of cryptocurrency and began using that. And they traded it for goods and services, milk, home repair, whatever. And, they solved their problems that way. And they around the mainstream Russian financial system by coming up with their own cryptocurrency, and that's really kind of the mentality and the motivation. I think that lies a lot at the core of what cryptocurrency is about for a lot of people.
Rachel Cannon (14:50):
There are different reasons for different people. But you think about all the places in the world that are like that, that have people who are being essentially excluded from the mainstream financial sector for one reason or another, and people don't want to be excluded. And this is a way around that. It's also interesting why a lot of governments, traditionally repressive governments, are banning cryptocurrency. Like you see in China, for example. And the, the stated reason by these types of governments is always that, oh, well, cryptocurrencies are unsafe and they're unstable, and people could lose their money if they invest cryptocurrencies. And yes, there, there's certainly some truth to that. Cryptocurrency can be very volatile. The real reason those governments want to ban cryptocurrencies is because when people spend their money buying Bitcoin and not the Chinese yen, or form of currency, it takes away money and power from the central government. And what repressive governments all over the world are seeing is that they're losing control through things like cryptocurrency because again, people don't want to be excluded from life by repressive governments. And so they're finding ways around that. And one way is through crypto currency.
Rissa Reddan (16:13):
Rachel, I've read a bit about blockchain versus cryptocurrency in that blockchain is here to stay. And it's really the value that we're going to see as a result of cryptocurrency. Do you have any perspective on that? I mean, I, I know that it's one is leveraging the other, but do you have a perspective on the merits or the, the value of each?
Rachel Cannon (16:35):
Yeah, so I mean, of course, they certainly do go hand in hand. So, so cryptocurrency, just to be very blunt and basic, it's not like you get a coin. It's a digital form of money and it's stored on the blockchain, which it again is sort of like the internet, but not exactly. It's like the digital ether. And the blockchain has many, many wonderful use cases. For example, if you think of the blockchain, I like to think of the blockchain to, to just kind of put it again in very basic terms. Like if you think of Google documents where you have a Google document and all sorts of people who are connected to it can update it, and everyone sees in real time how it's updating.
Rachel Cannon (17:26):
It's kind of similar, except that the difference is with Google documents, Google has the original, and in theory could control the original. Not that they would probably ever want to bother to do that. But with the blockchain again, in theory, there's no central person who really controls it everybody who joins the blockchain is part of it. Everybody gets these updates in real time things that happen on the blockchain don't get deleted. They never really go away. And so it's a wonderful system for things like records, things like healthcare records, for example. I mean, there've been so many articles about how the blockchain could transform healthcare for poor people. Because one of the problems poor people face when they go to the ER is they don't carry their medical records with them everywhere they go.
Rachel Cannon (18:20):
And so it's hard for doctors to sometimes know what their medical history is what their allergies are. And if there were something like the blockchain where that information could be entered and hospitals could be in a consortium where they all had access to it, that problem would be solved. That's just one example of why the blockchain is wonderful. Another example is with food transportation sometimes when you see these outbreaks of like listeria and lettuce, for example, it's a big deal and a big task to try and figure out where did the contaminated head of lettuce come from, especially if it was halfway around the country. Well, when you have something like the blockchain that tracks farm to table where the lettuce was picked and where it was stored and where it was transferred and that was kind of all tracked digitally through the blockchain, then you could easily figure that out. So I guess the long answer is I don't think the concept of the blockchain and storing digital data that way is going to go anywhere because it's just too powerful and too useful. But I don't think cryptocurrencies are going anywhere either. And they really do kind of work together, hand in glove. But for all the reasons we talked about because of cryptocurrencies' power to kind of step outside traditional financial regimes I think they're just really potent items that are here to stay.
Rissa Reddan (19:51):
Great. We talked a little bit about with cryptocurrency sort of the myth or the potential drawbacks of cryptocurrency, anything that you would add?
Rachel Cannon (20:08):
So another thing that I think makes crypto currency tricky for the average consumer is its volatility it's nice to know if you have one Bitcoin, is that going to buy you a carton of milk or is that going to buy you a new car? And if you have expectations about one or the other, it can be a little shocking to find out your sort of in a different category. And, and of course you've got kind of all the usual concerns that surround volatile forms of money. You wouldn't want your grandmother investing her last bit of life savings into Bitcoin because she might wake up one day and find that it's worth close to nothing. I think you do want to have some level of education around how cryptocurrency works before you for you buy it. Or you want to work with somebody who understands how it works.
Rachel Cannon (21:11):
Of course there are a number of financial professionals who are very sophisticated and use Bitcoin to hedge against other investments. It's supposed to be fantastic for that kind of financial strategizing as well. But, for the average consumer you do have to be careful because it is so volatile and it's really interesting. I've seen a number of these graphs that plot out kind of the volatility of Bitcoin over the course of a year versus the volatility of a true traditional currency like the dollar and the dollar just kind of barely moves up and down. But Bitcoin has these wild swings. And so if you're planning to get rich quick through Bitcoin that very well might happen. But you could also get poor very quickly through Bitcoin also.
Rachel Cannon (22:06):
So I think until that volatility is maybe somehow addressed it can be a risky investment, if you will. And if we're on this topic, one form of cryptocurrency that has come into being sort of to address that concern, are things like stable coins. So now, in the 1,500 or so cryptocurrencies that are out there, there are these forms called stable coins whose value is tied usually to something more stable, like for example, the US dollar. So one stable coin would have a value of $1. And if you wanted to, in theory, cash in your one stable coin, you, you should know that it's worth $1 there's other types of stable coins and some are pegged to other cryptocurrencies and some are pegged to a very complex algorithm. But now we're seeing the evolution of cryptocurrencies to come up with kind of solutions to these concerns around volatility. So I think that's an interesting area to focus on.
Rissa Reddan (23:23):
In addition to staple coins. I know you had mentioned NFTs a little bit earlier. Could you talk a little bit about them? I mean, there, it, they have certainly taken on so much interest as it relates to art and art being sold as an NFT. Could you comment a little bit on that? And I probably misused the language just now, but please correct me.
Rachel Cannon (23:44):
That's exactly right. And NFTs, this is another topic that I just love to read about and think about. So what are NFTs? The acronym stands for non-fungible token. It's a token that gives somebody an ownership, right. And something digital on the blockchain. And often nowadays it's a piece of art, so we can, we can use that example. So if I had an NFT, if I owned an NFT, if I bought one because I wanted it to give me an ownership right and a digital piece of art, I would own this kind of digital asset. And it would be pegged to some piece for example, digital art that an artist had created. And then depending on the contract or the nature of the thing you bought, the artist often retains the copyright to the piece of art, but I could look at the art whenever I wanted to, I could sell it.
Rachel Cannon (24:54):
I could trade it for some other kind of NFT. And it's just, it's interesting because again, it's kind of normal things you do, and see, but they're the digital version. And one story I love, there's an artist called Beeple. And he sold an NFT that was pegged to a digital work of art that he had created through Christie's. I think it was last year, 2021, or like early 2021. And that sold for $69 million, which is more than many Monets cost. And the, the artwork itself had an its own interesting story. He had kind of created one digital piece of art every day for, I don't know, like 13 years or something, and then amalgamated them all into this great big piece.
Rachel Cannon (25:54):
And that's what was auctioned at Christie's. And if you Google it, Christie's has this fun video of him and his family, as they're watching the auction price go up and he's like, oh my God! I can't believe someone's going to pay 1 million, 5 million, 20 million, and then it was $69 million. And the family, his family just looks like this normal American family. And they're like, wow! It’s a really cute thing to see everybody's kind of excitement. And that's also another thing that has just kind of blown open the doors of opportunity for people. I saw a really interesting interview with an artist in Nigeria who does these digital works of art and sells them as NFTs. And he was saying, 10 years ago before the internet came along and before these NFTs came into being, he would've just simply never been discovered.
Rachel Cannon (26:53):
He would've just been some obscure artist in the middle of Nigeria who never would've had a global platform and nobody would've ever known who he was or what he did. And he, would've probably barely eked out a living. And now because of the global digital nature of the blockchain and NFTs, he's become a well-known artist. He can support himself financially his pieces sell for lots of money. He's been discovered. And it's just kind of yet another example of people who probably historically would've been somewhat excluded from mainstream art world, or however you want to call it, are now a part of things because of the way this digital economy works. And so I think those aspects to it are just fascinating and really inspiring.
Rissa Reddan (27:44):
A book that I love that you just reminded me of is called, The $12 Million Stuffed Shark, the Curious Economics of Contemporary Art. It's a fabulous book. And I feel like the book needs another addition in order to incorporate NFTs and how NFTs are taking on a new role in the ecosystem. It's a fabulous book and it's one that I recommend often from a brand and marketing perspective, but it's a fascinating look at certainly the contemporary art world.
Rachel Cannon (28:13):
Oh, that sounds great. And that's another big use case for NFTs. I mean, they're huge marketing objects. I think McDonald's is using NFTs. Coca-Cola is using NFTs. A lot of the luxury brands are using NFTs. Athletes are using NFTs, singers because it's kind of a fun and a different way for people to have an ownership interest in something interesting, different, exciting, glamorous. And it can make people feel a part of things in a very unique way. And so everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon and it's just really fun and crazy to see what types of things are being sold as NFTs. Somebody's first tweet, a copy of an old song. Again, these pieces of art, it's really interesting.
Rissa Reddan (29:08):
I agree. It's very interesting. And jumping back, I know we talked a little bit earlier about blockchain. I'm reading a bunch about musicians and blockchain, and certainly as a musician, it's difficult to ensure that you're always paid for your work when it's appearing or being played in the background of a TV show or they're numerous examples. And that blockchain has the potential to really ensure that there is that connection between the music and the artist from an ownership or from a payments standpoint, which I think is fascinating.
Rachel Cannon (29:39):
Absolutely. I think the artistic community must be one of the communities that loves the blockchain more than anyone else, because exactly as you note, it allows them to track their royalties, to know when their items have changed hands. If you sell something to someone and forbid it from being reproduced you, , you can tell with the digital item when it is being reproduced. So, the artistic community I think, is really going to benefit from, from the blockchain.
Rissa Reddan (30:13):
I want to switch gears just a little bit. We talked about the benefits or opportunities of cryptocurrency, and then a little bit around the drawbacks of cryptocurrency. Could you talk to us a little bit about what you anticipate or what you are starting to see from a regulatory standpoint?
Rachel Cannon (30:30):
Yeah, that's a great question. So from a regulatory standpoint, as you would expect with cryptocurrency, it is literally the wild west. And that is because we have all the regulators using old models to try and regulate a very new and emerging technology. And so these old kind of ways of thinking about how to regulate things and how things should be structured and what you look for and how you assess them, they don't really work with something like a cryptocurrency because it just doesn't quite fit into any of the old models. I mean, it's money yes, but it's not backed by a government. It's just got all these kind of weird quirks to it that make it difficult to regulate. So what we're seeing is the whole alphabet soup of regulators kind of jumping into the fray.
Rachel Cannon (31:28):
Many of them are trying to and are asserting jurisdiction. And they're saying, well, cryptocurrencies are really this. They're a security, says the SCC for example. And so we should be in charge of regulating them. And here, we've got this old test called the HOWI test. And if you analyze these 12 factors, it'll tell you whether or not cryptocurrencies really are a security and whether or not they have to be registered with the SCC. And you see the Securities & Exchange Commission saying that. And then you see the, the CFTC, for example, the commodities futures trading commission saying, oh, no, no, no, no, no cryptocurrencies are commodities and we regulate commodities. And so really we're in charge of this burgeoning industry and making sure consumers aren't defrauded and setting up the guardrails.
Rachel Cannon (32:20):
And then you see people like the IRS stepping in and saying, no, no, no, no cryptocurrency is property and we tax it as property. And now you'll see in your tax returns that you file in April. There's going to be a question on there on the 1040 asking if you have essentially transacted in cryptocurrencies over the past year. And so the IRS is really trying to, to get a handle on, on cryptocurrencies. And then we have people like the Treasury Department saying we have a role to play here. And for all you companies who accept payment in cryptocurrencies, you need to be very careful that you aren't accepting payment from countries we are blocking Americans from doing business with, like Iran or Syria. And so they want to step in and say, how are you accounting for that?
Rachel Cannon (33:19):
How are you checking to make sure that you are not doing business with a sanctioned country? And so this is why it's, it's very complicated. And we get a lot of calls from these very enterprising, often brilliant young people who say, I want to start a website and I want to create my own cryptocurrency exchange. I want to do this. And I want to do that. Can I just go ahead and do that? And the answer is, no . I mean, you can but that'd be really risky because you have to be very careful when you start in new forms of money as to what exactly you're doing with that. What you're telling people about. What you're doing with that. Who you're allowing to be your customers. What sorts of checks you are having on your customers to make sure that your customers really are who they say they are.
Rachel Cannon (34:19):
And it's a very complex regulatory soup of regulators that are involved. And, and again, one of the things that's so challenging about it is there's not really a playbook for this. It's not like you can look up well, how did the SEC deal with this 10 years ago? Well, well, they didn't because cryptocurrencies weren't around 10 years ago. So you're kind of making novel arguments. And you're, again, looking to these old models, which sometimes kind of fit well and sometimes don't. And then I left off the states. There's a, there's a whole state overlay. Some states are very friendly to cryptocurrencies like Wyoming. They really want to encourage cryptocurrency businesses to come to their state and hang out a digital shingle, if you will.
Rachel Cannon (35:13):
And so they're passing laws that, that are very friendly. And then you have other states like New York, which are much more kind of consumer protection focused. And it's more involved to get different types of cryptocurrency related licenses. There's more scrutiny over cryptocurrency businesses, and it's, it's more challenging to kind of navigate in, in a state like New York, because there's a lot of scrutiny. And, and they would say appropriately so. I mean, we're the largest city in the country and we've got to look out for people and make sure people aren't getting ripped off. And so we're going to take a close look at anything involving cryptocurrencies.
Rissa Reddan (35:55):
Rachel, what is the future of cryptocurrency look like from your vantage point with your expertise in the area?
Rachel Cannon (36:03):
Well, I think it's only going to grow. I think we're going to see more clear guidance coming out. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Federal Reserve, they started something kind of akin to a task force last year that said they're going to be studying cryptocurrencies and kind of evaluating how they can be folded into the mainstream US financial system. And there was an article this morning that, that talked about how now they're really making progress on that front. And we're seeing more and more governments coming up with their own digital forms of currency. This is in the works in the UK. It's in the works in China, and it's really in the works here in the US. I think it's going to be really interesting to see what that looks like and how is that going to work with the US dollar.
Rachel Cannon (37:02):
And are they simply going to be a digital version of the US dollar? Are there going to be effectively two currencies in every country? Is the old mainstream version of currency going to essentially die out? I don't know. These, these are all questions we'll have to see, but I don't think there's any doubt that digital currency is, is going to be the next form of money everywhere, including in the US. And it's just a matter of when, and it's just a question of what exactly is it going to look like.
Rissa Reddan (37:35):
And Rachel, for people that want to get smarter on cryptocurrency you'd mentioned you like the Wall Street Journal. Are there any other sources that you have for information on cryptocurrency?
Rachel Cannon (37:46):
Well, the, the good news is I mean, I think there's probably whatever, whatever paper you read, if it's a, a major national newspaper, there's an article on cryptocurrency almost every day. I particularly love the wall street journal because they often have two articles per day. They have reporters who kind of specialize in this area and follow trends in this space. So I think if you really want to kind of bone up on, on cryptocurrencies and see how they're developing the, the wall street journal is, is a good place for that. The Washington Post is another newspaper that has a lot of cryptocurrency articles. Bloomberg has a lot of cryptocurrency articles and there are some interesting books in this space. I'll have to send you those titles offline, but there's definitely more books coming out that are written for more mainstream readers. So there's definitely, it's pretty easy to get yourself educated.
Rissa Reddan (38:49):
Rachel, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, any last or thoughts before we sign off?
Rachel Cannon (38:57):
Just that I hope people will open be open to all the exciting possibilities that cryptocurrencies can bring. I know for many of us, particularly even I'm in my late forties, people in our age group think it's not something they have to bother with, and they don't understand the attraction. But it's really about opening up the world's economy and connecting people and allowing people to participate that is at the root of what cryptocurrencies have to offer.
Rissa Reddan (39:26):
Thank you. And one last question for you, Rachel, for anyone who would like to connect with you to learn more, where can they find you?
Rachel Cannon (39:34):
rcannon@steptoe.com
Rissa Reddan (39:37):
Well, Rachel, thank you so much for joining us for today's data dialogues and for this fascinating conversation.
Rachel Cannon (39:43):
Thank you, Rissa. It's been wonderful.