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Alison Geskin talks with some of the most successful leaders from around the globe. She discovers what they're doing, why they're doing it, and what impact they've made.
Oh, I have been so looking forward to this conversation and to have the both of you in this. I am so thrilled, Tova and Josh, let me ask, set the table for our listeners in this. So imagine a world where everything was handbuilt, heirlooms furniture that lasted a century turning scraps into stories. All of that is vanishing the world that we know it is changing.
And so today we get to meet two incredible people who are fighting to keep that world alive. Let me ask you this, Josh, maybe I'll ask Josh and Tova differently 'cause you both wear different hats in your business. I'll ask you both, but I want Josh to answer first. What do you feel like after your 12 hour day?
That is a good question. Um, I honestly, when I come to work, I don't feel like it's work to me. to take something from nothing, basically. Piece of wood, piece of fabric, pieces of foam. Create something that, you know, you can look at at the end of the day and be proud of this, this point.
I really enjoy it. Yeah. Do you ever, Josh, feel the weight, the heaviness of the weight of the fact that you're preserving a dying industry? Does that weigh heavily on you?
it is one of those things that, if I was gonna say something weighs heavily on me, it would be. The fact that, you know, the craftsmen that we have in this industry, we're losing mm-hmm.
And not having somebody to, to take that place.
Mm-hmm.
That when you, when you dedicate your life to a passion that you don't have, potentially don't have people to pass it on to or, or other people getting into the trade that can sort of learn that craft for sure.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tova, you wear a, different hat in the business.
what do you feel like after the end of your 12 hour day?
I feel pretty good. My focus is more on the client experience. Um, and I feel like we do that better than any other company. So not only do we focus on the quality mm-hmm. But we wanna give a different experience to people than they're used to in the furniture, uh, industry.
I love that. I love that. Can you, uh, I'll ask separately 'cause I think you guys will come up with different answers, and I love this. Three words. Just three words that would sum up the essence of your business. Words that no social media post could ever capture. Three words. Tova,
quality, timelines and service.
Quality, timelines and service. Josh,
that
was a
good one. Quality.
It's like God damnit, she stole them.
Yeah. If I have to sum it up in three words, like this industry, uh, creativity, perseverance, and skill.
I love it. I love it. You know, I want to connect, uh, our listeners back to sort of like the, the human beings behind this, uh, big beautiful bohemoth beast that you have as, as a business.
What conversation Tova made you and Josh say, we're gonna do this, uh, even if it doesn't make sense on paper. What was that defining moment for you? Way back at the beginning, of timeless
Well, we like to do a lot of things at once. So in 2007 we decided we, uh, we're gonna build a new house. We got married that year and we decided, you know what?
We're gonna start our own business. Um, we knew that we wanted to have a family right away. Yep. And, our thought in starting our business was to be able to have that time flexibility to focus on being with our family and work in hours that worked for us.
Every single entrepreneur is now waiting for my very next question, which is, how's that working for you?
you know, I don't think it is, it's a balance in, you know, we have balance equal family to business. but you know, we always try to explain to our kids, 'cause you know, there are times when we're working crazy hours is that we have to put in this time. This is what allows us, you know, during dance competition season to, to be off with you for a week at your competition.
So it's not balanced, but it equals out
eventually. Yeah, A little risk and reward. Risk and reward. Risk and reward. What did you, uh, let me ask you this, Josh. What did you learn about yourself the first time, uh, paying customer sat on something that you made?
First time a paying customer sat on something. What did you learn about yourself? Ah,
we're going way back. So we're going back to when I was 16 and I built, uh, Adirondack chairs in my parents' backyard, and a lot of friends and family were, were the paying customers in, in that situation.
Mm-hmm.
I think back then, like as a kid, I learned that basically I can do anything that I wanna do, you know, with my hands. but you have to do it well. Mm-hmm. And you have to, you have to build it with quality. You have to do it well, and you have to make sure that the client is, is satisfied at the end.
So it's, you know, I guess there's a lot of souler to make sure that you're doing the proper thing so that the client has the right product
that's probably stood with you for, uh, up until today. True. I love that. I love that. I love that. Tova. How did rebranding from upholstery to furniture feel, were you scared to lose sort of what you built?
Were you excited? What did that feel like to make that leap?
We were nervous. Um, for sure. Um, we wanted to use the word furniture because it. Better demonstrated what we do. Um, I think with the word upholstery, people link it kind of to recover. and the majority of what we do is custom work, um, and commercial work.
So yeah, we were really nervous and, and we, we did learn some things ' cause when we, when we switched that name, we basically disappeared off the internet, word of mouth with our clients. And, um, you know, people are still talking about us, so we are still being found. But yeah, there was some things that we may have overlooked in that name switch, but I think overall we're, we're pretty happy with, um, you know, how it represents us.
Yeah, it
worked out in, in the end. Um, you know, because our clients, they basically, they, they, they know and trust the service, the quality, you know, the name is just, um, is just sort of on the side for them. Um. So yeah, there. I, I would say like, like you said, there's definitely some things that we learned, but
you know, when
it all ties back to the quality of the service, the, you know, what we do, um, brings it all back full circle again.
And do you think you made that move, as you were moving to, uh, expand your offerings, not just to trade, but also to the public?
I think the move was made at the right time. Um, yeah, we had switched locations. We kind of, um, were working on launching our furniture line at that time, so we really wanted people to understand that we were more than just recover.
Yes, yes. And what made you, what, what was the, what was the jump that made you decide to go all in into furniture, give birth to a, a, to an idea, to a dream, your own furniture line? What was the impetus for that?
It's been something that's been on our radar for a a while. It was just like,
it, it felt, yeah. It felt like all the, the stars aligned that it was the right move.
Like, like you mentioned, we have the name change, we have the, the new location. It all just came into alignment. It's like all that hard work that you've done for, you know, 15, 20 years.
Mm-hmm.
Stacking up and it, and then, and then the u the universe says, this is the right time.
We had a lot of clients asking,
you know,
when is that coming?
Like, oh, we gotta just buckle down and make it happen. It was a lot of work.
Mm-hmm. I bet, I bet. Listen, in the, in the 15, 20 years that you've been in this and that you've been scaling and evolving and matching your client needs, how many times did you contemplate tapping out? Did you, have you ever.
I think it depends on the tape that you took.
I think with our personalities, um, definitely like the thought has crossed our, my mind. Um, probably yours as well. Yeah. Um, but it's not, I don't think that's in our DNA, like we're, we're both very, um, high growth people and we love this game of like, what can we do next? Where are we going? definitely there are hard days where we're like, you know, like, Josh, remind me why are, why are we doing this?
I mean, we can kind of talk each other off the ledge, but,
and yeah. And that, and that goes with everything. Um, you know, business, life, marriage, all the things like it is.
It's not easy, but it's worth it. Yeah.
It's not easy, but it's worth it. I love that we should get cups made and sweatshirts and hats and we should start selling 'em.
It could be a side business. let me ask you this. 'cause I think it takes a lot of courage. I think it takes a lot of courage to believe in yourself, to believe in your idea, to fight the good fight against all odds. And we know that the odds are ever against us, uh, in business and as entrepreneurs.
What, uh, what do you know now about courage? Because it does take a lot of courage. What do you know now about courage that you wish you had at the very beginning?
I feel like for me it's always worse in my head than it is in actual life.
yeah, Josh I, yeah, I think you just, you have to take action and you just have to know and trust yourself that at, at the end of whatever, uh, journey that you're taking, like there will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
There always is. Mm-hmm.
Josh, do you think that's because you create the light?
Yeah. Maybe like, yeah, I think, I'm one of those people that just like, yep, let's do it and, uh, we'll, we'll figure it out. And I think between the two of us, we work hard and we just make things, make things happen. So for sure. Oh,
I love it. I think that's because you are the light.
'cause you create the light. You create the direction and you create the momentum. And that's what I think has made you guys so successful. So successful. Let me ask this of Tova Tova. If we could go back in a time machine and talk to 15-year-old Tova. Had you, have you met? Did you met, have you met Josh yet at 15?
I knew of him, yep. Oh, okay. So we, we knew of Josh, 15-year-old Tova. What would you say to the 15-year-old Tova about her purpose? And did she have braces at 15?
Oh, I had braces late. My purpose, I think just, you know, staying true to who I am and, um. One of the things I love is like doing things better than other people.
Um, and so I think just, you know, whatever I chose, you know, making sure that, you know, I stick with that. I love, I love to do things as, you know, as high scale as I can.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Would you tell your 15-year-old to be proud of yourself?
Absolutely.
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Let's move a little bit into sort of that human element, because as your business grows, so does the people in your business and really the challenge that any business leader has in balancing standards with compassion and what it, what it's like to build a culture, especially in an industry that is dying.
I wanted to go to school. I was really passionate about being, becoming a master craftsman in this industry to work with my hands to create beauty that lasts for generations to come. Where could I go? Well, that is a good question. Where could I go? You, you can go to the one stop shop here at Timeless Furniture because we have created a school for upholstery, the, um, upholstery training ca Academy.
share how that happened. Like how did you fill that void and why, and why, and then we'll get into like the people piece of, of managing all of that. But what was the void? Where else, where else besides you could people go? Our business was growing. Um, and finding a skilled upholster in Canada or North America even, um, is a, is a very hard thing.
So we were doing a lot of LM I to bring people from out of country in, um, a lot of work. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and a lot of chance because I mean, we would do, um, like Zoom interviews and see videos and stuff, but you're, you're hoping that people are who they say they are and can do what they say they can do.
And so, um, yeah, we had started talking about like, wouldn't it be cool if there was something here in Canada where people could learn? And uh, yeah. The UUTA was created. So, so before you in, if you were living in Canada and you wanted to live your passion and learn from a master craftsman to become a master craftsman, you couldn't.
Yeah, it's very, there's very, there was very few, um, schools or, or anything similar to what we have in Canada. Uh, and what, what was there I think, um, has since shut down. Uh, I think even in, you know, when you, when you go into the United States, there was still, there's very minimal, minimal tools, learning opportunities for upholstery.
Yeah. Yeah. And do you find it was more upholstery, like hobbyist upholstery, like learn to sew, make a, make a cushion, make a, make a footstool with some embroidery on it. These type courses that, um, some people were offering, um, very minimally for like learning it as a trade.
And so what do you think was the single biggest risk that you took in launching the school, the academy?
and then a really interesting question is, how's it going? Did it pay off?
yeah, I think we decided that we were doing that within a couple months. Three, I think we had
three months. I think it, yeah. Yeah.
So putting together an entire school, putting it out to the world when we weren't sure if, if it would be something that is accepted.
Um, doing the coursework, it was, it was crazy Sometimes. I don't know why we decide these things, but we pulled it off. Um, we ran a initial course. It was really good. Josh was an amazing teacher. Everybody loved it. Um, we still get emails from that first group of, of, you know, when's your next course?
We're like, can I just like come hang out with you at work and keep learning?
Have you yet to meet a student that you know will be the next steward, uh, of that craft of, of that master craftsmanship? Well, we, we, we had that we haven't come across yet. Um, and then, yeah, with the, with the move here and the furniture line and all the things, we, we've not had another course, but we, we have a very long wait list right now.
Um, and we're working on trying to get some, some new courses planned 'cause there's definitely a demand for it. Excellent, excellent. The initial course, there was a student that actually had, uh, had worked for us as well, so, it was quite successful.
So at the end of the day, all of that from, from an idea, hey, we're having a hard time filling, filling, filling, fill, filling talent in our business, we can't find talent because nobody is teaching that talent in North America.
So we're going to open up our own school and teach talent. And then you did. I think it was worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And,
to run another, uh, course and see, you know, what kind of people take the course and, you know, it's just fun to learn or to, to watch people learn the craft that sometimes, you know, when you're be, when you're in the industry for, uh, as long as we have been and like I've done the craft for so many years, uh, you take for granted what, uh, what you actually do know, right?
Mm-hmm. Or, and then to see people, uh, in amazement for just, you know, these what you think are basic skills, um, yeah, it's quite rewarding for, for that aspect. I like for sure. So
seeing Josh in action like his, you could really see that spark of passion and yeah, it was contagious. People loved it.
Do you think in some way, Josh, it re it reinvigorated you and did it make you fall even deeper in love with your craft from a, from a teacher lens, from a, from a master craftsman to a young grasshopper lens?
Yeah, for sure. Like, the time that we did it, that we, that we sort of opened that up and ran that course was probably a pretty fit in time. Uh, just being in the industry for so long, you know, you sometimes you get a little bit complacent, um, yeah, kind of put that, that fire under you and, you know, amped everything back up.
And then, like I said, it's, it's just good to see people enjoy themselves. They want to learn, they're just. Know, enthralled that, you know, somebody knows all this stuff and can pass it on. It's, it's super rewarding.
Yeah. I think we have about 150 people on our wait list right now. So. Amazing. It's in interest in, uh, this industry.
Amazing. How do you convince a generation younger than both of us raised on instant gratification? To fall in love with craft, with slow, meticulous work that requires discipline and attention, and it isn't in instant gratification. You know, you have an idea and you have to work it and mold it, and it has to speak to you and you have to speak to it, and then you have to touch it, and then someone else has to touch it and someone else touches it until it becomes a whole.
How do you, how do you help cross the bridge for. That younger generation that needs instant?
That's a good question.
I, I think there's always people who love creating people. It's, it's the seeing something go from nothing or like literally a sketch on a napkin to this most beautiful piece of furniture.
I think that gratification is, is what drives 'em. I don't think that comes from us. I think it it comes from within
and then, and then they just need somebody that can guide them in the right direction. And like you said, with the instant gratification, and you need somebody, um, maybe from a generation back or whatever to instill that, uh, discipline, perseverance, determination, hard work, uh, work at it, build it, create it, keep going, keep going.
And you will come up with a piece of furniture that's, you know, we'll last generations. So I think all that, um, you know, when they, like Tova said, when they, when they, they have that creative flare, they have that passion for, for doing things and they can see each step kind of come to life. I think it, uh, I think that instant gratification goes away because they can see that at the end of all this hard work and, and, you know, these things that they're doing, they can see something that will stand in front of 'em and they can enjoy looking at it and, and being part of that, uh, looking at it or sit in it and be part of that sort of process.
Mm, I love that. Let's move into, uh, the human element, the wearing the hat of, you know, being responsible for people. The livelihood of people and their families. And for a culture that you've built. What's, um, maybe I'll, I'll ask both of you, 'cause I think that, uh, you know, Tova, I feel like you're like front of house, Josh, you're kind of back of house, but, so you have different experiences and different interfaces.
So I'll ask you both the same question, but we'll go to, uh, Tova first. What's the hardest conversation you've ever had with an employee? And then what did you learn from it?
I think one of the harder conversations we've had to have is, is letting somebody go, um, when they're a good worker, but they're not a culture fit. we waited way too long to, to make that decision. Um, I think it was very eye-opening after, um. Somebody who doesn't fit your culture leads to see how everybody else rises up.
when they see that you, you are willing to stand and fall on your values. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How scary was that to step into that and, and, and, and really do and, and stick to your values and stick to your conviction that this is who we wanna be as an organization. So hard and so scary because you have somebody who can do the work.
And for that, for us, that's something very hard to find, really rare. So yeah, to kind of have to find that balance of like, they can do the work, but it's killing the culture in the shop to, you know, knowing that you have to let that person go and then, you know, everybody else has to rise up to, to be able to do the extra work until we can, can find replacement.
So, yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest things we've learned.
Does it get easier?
We feel like it does. I feel like we, yeah, in hiring now, we, we usually have people come in for a working interview and we really look at those, you know, value pieces and we really aware of are they gonna fit the values, with, can they do the work?
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Job situation. I, I really didn't know that that was the right decision. You know, just being a craftsman myself and knowing the skill that this person brought to the table and, uh, to have them not there and have to sort of retrain and, and, and do all this stuff. I, I doubted it to the end, but now I clearly, clearly can see, uh, the benefit in the culture.
Um, so yeah, it was a, it was a big, a big learning lesson for sure.
Mm-hmm. Do you think that you fought more on the fact that, you know, from maybe your lens is the fact that you've got a craftsman, your industry's dying, and that there's value in that craftsman, and then so what's the push and pull the value in the craftsman versus the value of the environment?
Yeah, absolutely. I, that was a, that was a battle between the, the two of us, because, like you said, have
a laugh. She, oh, being married and being in business together is sometimes challenging too, right?
Yeah. You have that, you have that person and or people and, and they know the work. And you know, in my perspective, it, it, it doesn't really matter.
How they act and what they do and all the things, if they can do a beautiful piece of furniture at the end, like we're, we're getting sort of what we want. But then seeing the flip side of that, um, and then seeing how, uh, like you, like Toma mentioned, um, the rest of the team roses up. Everybody rises up a level or two from where they, uh, originally are.
And it, yeah, it just, it added to the, to the environment, to the productivity, to the, um, you know, yeah. It, it changed the whole
atmosphere,
um, completely. So I'm, I'm now, uh, um, an advocate of,
he's on Board
of Culture. Um, I didn't, I didn't realize, I didn't realize how much it affected everything.
Yeah.
maybe because like, you know, the shops that I worked in before I opened my own, like the, it was just as a, as a trade spin. It was just, that's just was normal. Right. That was, that was the normal atmosphere. And, um, there wasn't anything about culture and all that. You just, you, you hung your feelings up on the, on the hook when you walked in the shop and then you pick it back up and you go.
And that was sort of the attitude. Mm-hmm. But, uh, that's, that sure changed for the better.
How long did it take you, how long did it take Tova to convince you on that specific one? Uh, it was 3,
3, 4 years.
Wow. I was gonna, weeks in my head
years, like I said, I'm determined.
I love that. I love that. And so now values are really important to you. How do you scan for values? I think that this is something that, you know, every single business owner, business leader faces, myself included, you go through a really stringent process. You invest so much time on like the pre-boarding and making sure that you've got a fit and they understand what are your expectations, sort of where the guardrails are.
What are the runway? What's the runway, what's the empowerment look like? How do you test for values? 'cause at the end of the day, yes, you can test for work. I love that you have them have a shop day so you can see, oh, they actually know what a tool is. I would fail that miserably. But how do you test for values?
That's actually a good, uh, that shop day is also actually a good test for values as well if you work closely with them. Yeah. Uh, and so what I do is, um, this is sort of the back end. Toba has her own sort of system, but um, yeah, I, I talk to them on a personal level, you know, explain things. You can really get a lot out of somebody when, you know, you just spend a day with them and ask the right questions.
Um, see how they behave, see how they situations, how do they naturally behave. Yeah, exactly. See how they behave, see how their responses, all those things. Um, as far as the front end value testing. Um, maybe you can, yeah, I mean, we have, our values are intertwined and everything from our job ad to our, you know, interviews.
And then, like Josh said, we do the, the in-person working interview and, and usually by the end of that, we have a pretty good idea if somebody's gonna be a fit or not. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Or just that I feel like we're getting it more right than wrong these days. So, yeah. And it, it, I just find it, it's so fascinating because, you know, we try all these as owners, as leaders, we try all of these different ways to kind of ensure that we set everybody up for success.
Not, not only the, the, the new person but us, our team, the, our, our, our culture, our environment. And uh, it's, it's always interesting to see and hear what others are doing and well that we can learn from. So the, a day in the job is the magic sauce for you guys.
I guess depending on the, on the scale of the corporation or whatever mm-hmm. Um, you, you go through the hiring process and it's not always, you know, it might be like an HR manager or something that's sort of working these systems and, and they, you know, that process doesn't allow the time to spend with that person for a day.
Um, who they are and what they do and what drives them. And you,
what kind of energy they bring, how they treat the tools, how they, uh, correct their mistakes or if they spot mistakes. 'cause oh, in your world, a, a mistake is, it happens a lot. It's so easy to make a mistake. It's so easy to, to get a, a measurement wrong or to get, you know, in your world, what's, what's even like a, the tiniest millimeter can make or break something.
Yeah.
And then, um, you know, you get to see how they react with, with other people or, um, even their response to constructive criticism
mm-hmm.
That you can really gauge a lot to. Just,
so I'll ask this both of you. so back of house, Josh, what does a perfect day look like for the team in the back? And then conversely, what does a terrible day in the back teach you?
A perfect day in the back, well, obviously you know where everything, everything goes, right.
Uh, it goes in the right direction. Um, things are on time. There's minimal mistakes. Um, there's not too many, uh, people that need, uh. You know, attention as far as, you know, what do we do here, what do we do there? Things like that. Um, so yeah, in a, in a perfect day, you each person builds their piece and it's done at the end of the day and we're good to go.
That's totally not how it goes.
It teach me. Yeah. well, you know, obviously it teaches, teaches patience. Uh, everybody, uh, brings something to, to the table on a different level. Um, you know, everybody has their own, their own skills, their own way of looking at things. Um, you know, that, that your, your way is not always the right way.
So, you know, listen to your people, get the, get their feedback. Mm-hmm. Um. Yeah. A lot of patience, you know, a lot of patience for sure.
How hard is it, Josh, as a master craftman, and you absolutely are. How I, how, how does it make you feel when you say that? Um, and to acknowledge that sometimes your way isn't the right way?
yeah, that's a good question. Actually. In our scenario, it, I kind of feel a little bit proud that, um, I've, I've taught the guys to a certain level mm-hmm. Where they, they know to speak up and say, no, Josh, like this is, this won't work like this. We've ran all the scenarios, we've done all the things, you know, this is, this is where it's at.
And then I have to just look at it, swallow and say, yep, you're right. Good job doing the right thing. I appreciate it. Keep at it. So I would say, I would say the proud, I actually feel proud. There's a little bit of, um, like, why didn't you think of that, Josh,
in the whole picture? You know, they're, they're doing the right things. They're, they're thinking outside the box. yeah, they, they've learned a lot and it, and it shows and it, and yeah, I'm proud that, that I, I've taught them as well. So
look at the growth in you. It's fabulous. I'll ask, I'll ask Tova the same front of house.
So what does a perfect, what does a perfect day look like for your team? And then what does a terrible day teach you?
Everybody hits targets, you know, great customer service. We have tons of referrals. Um, I mean, I feel like that is most of our days upfront. Yeah. In the back, but upfront everything looks,
when these go wrong. I, I think for me, usually it all goes back to process. Like, where can we improve process? Like, somewhere along the way something needs to be realigned.
Well, talking about realign, let's talk about, uh, co-leadership and love. Mm-hmm. This is like where marriage meets a mission.
So Tova met Josh, knew of Josh when she was 15, and then you two started dating when you were, how old
would be? Eight. You were? I was
18.
You were 18? I was 19, yeah.
have, did you always work together or, or just started working together in 2007?
When did you guys decide to work together?
I think 2007. Yeah, 2000 gusto had some other things. Um,
I actually used to help at the shop. You worked at, um. Prior to that? Prior
to that, yeah. So I
guess we, we kind of did work together before that, but,
and then, and then two, 2007, we Yeah. Started timeless and
incredible.
Incredible. Okay. So here's, here's a question for you both. What's the most surprising way that working together has strengthened your marriage?
Yeah, I mean, well we, um, and we're both probably like maybe the most stubborn people that, that people know. And I feel like in, if it was just personal life, there's a lot of that you could kind of like let go and, um, when you're running a business, like it has to be solved. You're, you have other people's lives at stake.
So I think like really learning how to work together, especially when we're like. So opposite on viewpoints for everything.
Little bit of give and take a little bit of, um, inner soul searching to, to sort of align yourself, uh, a lot of self patience, self talk, um, yeah, all those, all those little things to sort of, yeah, it's tricky. Yeah, for sure. It's tricky, but, uh, I love the question because the question, uh, speaks to strengthening your marriage.
A lot of people look at couples who are together in a, in a business and, you know, there's lots of things that can happen to that relationship. Sometimes the relationship might take a backseat and you end up just becoming business partners and then your business partners in your marriage. But I feel that with you two, that not only have you been able to build and design something that you love, not only for each other, but together and for your family and for generations to come.
And so there's great strength that comes out of that. Yeah, for sure. What's, um, it's hard work. It's, but when it, it's like a superpower, but there days where it's tough and you have to remind yourself of the, the bigger picture or the greater good. Mm-hmm. Right. For, for the relationship, the greater good for, uh, the business, the greater good for the family.
Um, 'cause it's, you know, in a perfect world that's all aligned and everything's running smoothly and sometimes that happens. Mm-hmm. And sometimes it doesn't. So you just, it doesn't, you just have to just have to remind yourself of that, uh, of that alignment and move forward. Yeah. Sure. So to, obviously you haven't run 'em over with your car yet.
Yeah. How do you two celebrate wins together? Big wins, small wins. Maybe even a better question, being a business owner, uh, and everything else that you do. You know, we're often always not given the luxury to celebrate wins, but as a couple, how do you celebrate your wins? Do you ever look back and be like, wow, look at we've created, I'm so proud of us.
I feel like this is something we could definitely do better. We don't often take time to slow down and really reflect on a win. 'cause once we've hit something, we're already moved on to the next. But yeah, work, work in progress for sure. Um, I think just, um, you know, obviously within ourselves we would celebrate the win.
We have really good communication, you know, in the, in the workplace atmosphere and at home we're always, um, you know, there's always a chat about everything basically. So I think subtly we, we celebrate those wins, but not, uh, we should really up what we, what we're doing. Yeah. What a little challenge there for you.
Tova. Describe a time where the bus, where you thought the business stress might absolutely break you. And how did you get through it? Like often? I think in instances like that, I'm, I'm definitely the worrier, you know, I have all the things that could go wrong, all the plans to fix those things. Um, and for me, I feel like what I find most comforting in those moments is having conversations with Josh.
Josh is always very optimistic and has these crazy plans. And I, I think sometimes just the reminder that like, our worst day is something somebody else would dream about. Yeah. And you know, we got here because of the work and you know, if things went terribly wrong, we could still get back here. We know how to, we know how to do this at this point.
Mm-hmm. So, yeah, just a reminder of that bigger picture. And, you know, you talk about, uh, Josh being incredibly optimistic, you know, where that belief comes from, that he can do anything. And I believe that, he can. And so, in your mind, has that led you guys astray at all?
I guess a better question would be
in Josh's, uh, uh, ideal vision of what can be, has it ever gone sideways yet? You wanted to open up a shop. You did. You wanted to be bigger. You did. You wanted to create a furniture line. You did. You wanted to move into a big, really scary, scary, scary, very expensive space because you needed it, big space.
And Josh is like, we'll do it. It's fine. It'll be fine. That. How, how often did you get it wrong?
I dunno. That I would say we get wrong. Um, we're both very determined and I feel like once we've decided on something,
yeah,
we'll make, we will make it happen. I, I think where that like pieces is like, to what extent do we now have to work or sacrifice to make those things happen.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
But, but those visions did get really clo to very close points of, of is this gonna work or not Even, I had, I had myself doubted myself. I'm like, and that
almost never happened.
I'm like, I'm like, did this, did I just lead us to almost like disaster. and potentially I did.
but yeah, like, like you mentioned. The determination, the perseverance. You just have to remind yourself of, you know, where you're going and how you're gonna do it. And, and all, and I should say we have the most amazing team here. Mm-hmm. Uh, we couldn't do this without, without our team. So, I mean, when we have these big, crazy visions, everybody's along for the ride and everybody pitches in and you know, there's times when, you know Josh is working, you know, 20 hour days.
Yeah. The team there with him,
Josh, do you ever have time to yourself where you ever look back and think, holy crap, look what I've been able to create?
quite often I'll look back because
how does that make you feel?
obviously I feel good about it. I feel inspired. I feel, you know, that we're doing something good. Um, yeah, I, I love it. Yeah. There's often I look back and I'm like, I was just a 16-year-old little punk kid
making can rack chairs in
my parents' backyard and, and now look at, like, look at what we do.
It's,
yeah. And with a family and, and, you know, just for, just for everyone's records, how many kids do you have?
Five kids.
Say that louder. How many kids?
Five. Wonderful kids.
Yeah. What would, what advice would you give to couples that, uh, are in business together What, what advice would you give to couples that are in business together?
It's like a loaded question. 'cause you're like, how on earth do you want me to answer that? And do you have 500 more hours?
I, I would just say, um, lean into, lean into each other's superpowers.
Mm-hmm.
Don't overlook that.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think it's very powerful, um, in a relationship in business. Um,
don't try and solve problems when things are heated.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
Yeah. Give yourself some time to cool down. Um, yeah. I, yeah. Honestly, yeah, just, just that, uh, you know, leaning into, to each other's superpowers, I think is the biggest one. And, and trusting what you know, the other person brings to the table, both in business and relationship.
Yeah. I. And knowing when to trust, and value the other person's opinion, uh, over yours without losing yourself, obviously. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah, it could be super beneficial.
Well, I love that your anchors and how you answered that question is to, uh, honor the other person's superpowers. 'cause I don't know necessarily if we as business owners or as couples who are in business, think about it that way.
We see each oftentimes, you know, we're partners or, you know, well, he takes care of this and I take care of this. And so it's really interesting that your first go-to was to honor Tova superpowers and for Tova to honor yours. Okay. So I'm gonna put you on the hot seat, Josh. What are to v's top five superpowers?
Go?
planning organization, uh, she cares about, uh, people and where they're going, how they're doing. Um, determination, perseverance. I can, I mean, there's, I can keep going, uh, on and on. Um, but yeah, I would, I would say, you know, it show, it shows, it shows in the culture, it shows in our family.
Um, yeah, it's just wonderful, wonderful person.
Oh, Kate Tova, your turn five for Josh Superpowers. Uh,
visionary Creativity. Um, he has a way of connecting with people. That's something else. he is a great leader and, and I would say he is fun. Like he always comes up with these. Stupid games or like even in the shop, like some of the things he does.
I'm just like, but like, it's so fun. People love it.
I love that. I love that. What's, um, for both of you with your own personal anchors, what's one phrase or one mantra that you keep returning to when sort of the doubt creeps in and doubt creeps into us all? Do you have like a go-to that you, that you can share with us?
I would say built to last, just like us
built to last. Just like us. I love that Tova.
I mean, the thing I say most to myself is like, just, just get this one thing done.
One thing and just keep going. I love that. I love that. So this will be for the both of you. So 50 years from now, what do you want people to say about you and your company?
50 years from now, I'll probably still be in the back of the Shaw. Not that I have no doubt.
I would really hope that, uh, people would, would say something along the lines like, um, you know, what a, what a wonderful company, um, that Tova Josh have created and, you know, all, you know, all the jobs and the, the outlet for creativity.
Yeah. What that, yeah, I think, I think just that, you know, we're genuine, we are kind and we, we actually care. Mm-hmm. We're not just making furniture. We care. We care about the experience, we care about the end user, we care about the quality. Um, yeah. We, we care about, uh, you know, when the time comes and when we're not here that, you know, hopefully this business is being carried on by somebody that fits the, fits the values.
Um, you know, that potentially we've, we've sort of trained or, or, um, has have mentored into that position where they can carry on the legacy. Um, just so that it's not lost. quite often you, you spend a lifetime building something and then you know what? What happens next? Who does it, who does it get passed onto?
Who takes it? Who cares? Who doesn't care about that? Right? So, uh, it would be, it would be a shame to see this world that we created, not continue on. So, you know, I would like, I would like for, for somebody to, to look back and, and say like, you know, we're proud to, to carry this on.
Mm. That's beautiful.
Beautiful. So what's next at Timeless Furniture? So, we've gone through, you, you, you know, you had an idea. Shop, you did upholstery and then it got bigger and bigger and bigger, and your and your footprint got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then you had issues with, with talent, and then you solved your own talent problem by creating your own school.
And then if that wasn't enough, you decided, oh, we're not just gonna go work, work with trade, we're gonna work with everybody. So we're open to the public and now we've gotta create our own furniture line. And so let's just create our own furniture line and not just one or two pieces. We're talking lots of pieces.
What's next?
What we've been working on lately is a lot of, um, like process systems. We've been, um, working with integrating AI into some stuff.
Excellent. How's that for you? Uh,
I'm actually pretty excited about it. Like I'm. Obviously being a creative, I'm not too keen on processes and procedures and
such a yin and yang.
You guys are in a relationship. I love this.
But, um, but this AI actually really has gotten me excited, um, to incorporate that into, into those processes and procedures. Just
the, how would he create efficiency and yeah, really cool stuff.
Yeah. The, the efficiency and the, you know, yeah. Just everything. Can you hear that
Allison?
He's excited about processing procedures. I'm, I'm excited. I'm sorry. This is great.
I never,
Journey is working on, working on that. Beautiful, beautiful. What, as we wrap up, what, um, what would you, if you could leave just one lesson with every single leader who's listening today, what would it be?
One lesson for every leader listening, and we've got lots of leaders listening, lots of different industries, startup scale up, enterprise for-profit, nonprofit all over the world. What's one thing that you would leave with them? With us? Like, people don't buy what you're selling. They buy who you are.
What you bring to the table is sort of what's, what makes you, yeah. So it's not a piece of furniture at the end of the day, the day that you're selling. It's, it's your passion, your pride, your, uh, creativity, your creativity, your, um, ability to, to solve problems, all those things. for leaders, well, I would like, I, I've just, I personally, I've learned to, to listen, to listen to my people, what they want, uh, what they need, um, be vulnerable, um, to those, those things that they're asking for. And, and the lessons that you're learning from 'em. So lean into that a little bit more.
Um, yeah, like, I think a good leader, a good leader can sometimes be led by its people.
Mm-hmm. Wise words. Wise words. Tova, Josh, timeless furniture. Thank you.
Thank you Allison. Uh, appreciate the opportunity and um,
yeah, it was wonderful.