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Welcome to Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor where we coach you on how to run the practice and business of your dreams. Your host is Justin Rabinowitz - a multiple Rehab Chiropractic practice business owner and investor. In addition to running his own locations, Justin works with Rehab Chiropractors across the US talking about everything from sales to marketing, and creating the business systems necessary to succeed.
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Here we are, we've got four practices. We're seeing lots of patients. We're taking great care of folks and the money's not coming in. And so I had been through a couple of different chiropractic practice management companies and decided like, okay, I'm kind of not going down that road anymore. I'm going to do something di fferent.
Justin:
That's Dr. Jay Greenstein. He's a chiropractor with over three decades of experience in the profession. And I'm going to be honest with you, I've been looking forward to this episode for a while. Jay is a true veteran in our industry and I am so excited to be able to pick his brain.
We covered how chiropractic has changed in the last 30 years, how to prevent burnout and why you have to ride the wave of AI and technology or get left behind. If you're new to the podcast, every episode we share the stories of chiros who are learning to build their businesses, and along the way, the lessons they won't teach you in chiro school.
I'm Justin Rabinowitz, and this is Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor.
All right, Dr. Jay, so you've been doing this for thre e decades now. Can you talk to me about the early days?
What was it like compared to what it's like now?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Man, the early days were exciting. First, I got out of school and I ended up being an associate for a year out in California and was able to be mentored by a great chiropractor, Dr. Jan Corwan, who also introduced me to a bunch of other sports chiros that are just legends, like Tom Hyde and other folks. And it was a great experience associating, but I knew I wanted to come back home and start my own practice, which I did. And it was hard. I learned a lot, but it was exciting because we're helping people and the practice was growing. What was really interesting is that I had no idea what I was doing running a business.
I literally had no idea what I was doing. So while we grew and while we actually started opening up other practices, from an operations perspective, from a process management perspective, from an SOP perspective, I was clueless.
And at one point, and I've shared the story many, many times over the years, at one point we almost went bankrupt. Here we are, we've got four practices. We're seeing lots of patients, we're taking great care of folks and the money's not coming in. And so I had been through a couple of different chiropractic practice management companies and decided like, okay, I'm kind of not going down that road anymore. I'm going to do something different.
So I enrolled into the University of Pennsylvania, Wharton School of Business, their small business development program. And as I was driving back and forth from DC to Philly three times a week, two nights after practice and then one on Saturday, I started learning things. I had just put books on tape into my... Because that's how old I was. I was listening to books on tape, not podcasts, and started listening to books.
And one of the first book I listened to was the book Jack: Straight From the Gut, which is Jack Welch's book. And he grew at the time GE into the largest company in the world. And I learned about this thing called Six Sigma. And while I won't get into too much detail around Six Sigma today, it's a quality assurance methodology designed to understand the key variables in a given process that you need to control to guarantee the result that you're looking for.
And so if GE's building light bulbs and toasters and airplane engines, that manufacturing process has got to be so good that there are no defects. And so what he also then did because they're building MRI machines, is he applied that to healthcare. And so there was just a lot of relevance. And in addition to having just a great experience at Penn in their small business development program, just listening to that book and just learning from Jack Welch, how we thought about leadership, how he thought about talent management, how we thought about process management was kind of a game changer because literally we were going down the tubes.
Justin:
Bring me back to that guy who was opening the practice that was coming back home, because I want to talk, I'm curious to where your brain was, if it was ambition or like you were crazy enough to think it could work. But I deal with a lot of people where it's like I try to expand what level is possible. So even though you went bankrupt, there was an ambition to say, "I'm going to open my own practice," which is one thing, but then I could grow to multiple locations. Where do you think that came from?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
It was a business opportunity. We had referral sources that were telling us, "Hey, you're over there. We're sending you folks, but if you were even closer, we could send you more." And so we're like, "Okay, let's go find a place to sign a lease. Let's sign a lease. Let's buy the equipment. Let's hire some staff and let's start seeing patients." But when your operations are not tight and your processes aren't managed appropriately, you can be submitting thousands of insurance claims, but if the data's not correct, then you're not getting paid.
And that's what was happening with us. We just didn't have good data entry. Our teams were not... They weren't functioning at Six Sigma, which is like 3.4 defects per million opportunities. So imagine submitting a million claims and only having 3.4 that are defective. That's how processes should run. We weren't even close to that.
So that's why we weren't getting paid. And so once we figured that out going through a Six Sigma process, we learned how to fix that.
Justin:
Jay is so right here. Having the right processes can make or break your practice. And remember, if you need help with your practice, go to the link in the show notes. We've got a great team that would be happy to help you.
I graduated in 2012 and we have always been out of network or now we are fully cash, but I would say in one sense back in the day, quotes, it was easy because out of network paid a lot better and it doesn't pay as much now. Though I would argue today it's easier to be cash than it was a decade ago, because as someone told me they went cash in like 2012 and the patients looked at him like he was on crack. That was his exact quote because it wasn't a real thing. So that's sort of my experience, where yeah, there's certain things that are harder, but actually it's easier because it's more accepted in the marketplace.
From your perspective, going back 30 years, it doesn't necessarily need to be about insurance, but about the general business landscape. How would you compare 30 years ago to today? Harder, easier, different game? How would you think about it?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
I feel like it is much more difficult today. When I first started, managed care hadn't quite kicked in. It was only about two to three years afterwards that managed care started to kick in and we started to have pre-authorizations and referral requirements and those types of things, which was a bit of a bear, but it wasn't anything like it is today. I think you know this, Justin, I do a lot of work at the leadership level in chiropractic, a lot of volunteer and advocacy work.
And one of my roles is I sit on the reimbursement committee for the chiropractic future strategic plan. And when we look at the landscape of all the reimbursement challenges that we're faced with, it is literally like whack-a-mole, and regulators and elected officials, legislators don't help us. And so it is just much more difficult. And now with the advent of AI where we know, it's not an opinion, we know insurance companies are using AI to delay and deny claims, bundle codes together, all the nonsense that they do.
I think it's gotten even more difficult. So I would say it's gotten harder now than it was when I first started for sure.
Justin:
So because of the experience plus I think some, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on any of the... Your practices still accept some insurances and you kind of understand the landscape. For a new chiro coming out or someone that's been in practice a few years, where do you see the future going with that as far as do you think that the insurance system eventually is gone in our profession? Do you think it's going to slowly peter away? What do you think it is? And again, this is predictive because we don't actually know, but I'm curious what you think.
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Yeah, I think insurance is always going to be there. I feel like insurance can be a potential portal of entry for patients. So when the patient wants to use their insurance and they go to a chiropractor that accepts their insurance, the patient come in, they can get some of the early care they need and then it's up to the chiropractor to explain, like insurance is not going to pay for everything that you need.
There's a difference between medical necessity benefit as part of an insurance plan versus like what is going to actually maximize your health. And so I think it's up to the chiropractor to explain those things to the patient and help them align the patient goals with the care plan that's being prescribed and delivered, and then work that out, whether it's insurance only or insurance plus cash, or maybe it's sometimes it's even just cash only because you don't accept that particular insurance plan.
But I do think that insurance is going to... I think insurance will stay in chiropractic or chiropractors will stay in insurance, but I do believe that there's a better opportunity for people to learn more about what you're doing and how you coach your clients because I think there's greater opportunity when you add that cash-based services onto your practice.
Justin:
With that, one more question that I get top three from students is, if you were starting over, what advice would you have for me, cash or insurance? So like when students come to you and ask that question, or if there are students or new practice owners asking the cash insurance, what generic advice do you sort of give to them in that case?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
It's interesting. I have not had that question asked of me. I probably would say what I just said, and I think a lot of it also is geographic dependent. So there's certain states that have better rates of reimbursement. There are certain payers that have better reimbursement, certain types of practices. If you're doing personal injury, maybe you're going to be fine in Florida, but maybe if you go to some other state, you're not.
And so I think there's lots of variables that come into play. The advice that I would probably give a student or a new grad is, "Describe your perfect practice. What does that look like?" And if you're the kind of practice that, or if you're the kind of person that wants a practice that is okay dealing with kind of this operational infrastructure of dealing with insurance and following up on claims and process management, then maybe insurance could be a good starting point for you.
But if you just want to be like, "I'm seeing the patient, you pay me and we're good," then maybe cash is the way to go. So I think it's very much an individual decision, but you could be successful in both arenas.
Justin:
Yeah. So the question I get all the time is, when I'm opening my practice or when I'm starting a practice or I'm in practice, should I be insurance or cash-based? The reality is both business models can absolutely be successful, but the truth is that it's going to be hard either way. The false belief is people want to do an insurance practice when they get started because they believe that it's just easier to get going, but then you have to deal with a different set of issues.
The other issues are you're going to have to deal with insurance companies. You're not going to get paid. You're going to have to have a backend billing system. You're going to have patients that a lot of the times, to be honest, they just choose you because you are within their insurance provider. What that means is they're not that bought into care, which not only sometimes your results aren't as good, but also if you have a treatment plan with someone and they need 12 or 15 sessions, a lot of times they might leave in four or five.
The cash practice has a different set of issues. It's often more expensive to get going and you're asking people to invest out of their own pocket. But when they do invest and they do decide to work with you, oftentimes they are bought in because we say in life, you invest with your wallet and your calendar. And so when people are invested with their wallet, they very oftentimes will get better results. The quote we talk about all the time, which many of you have to understand is that the math needs to math.
And what's a practical example of that? If you are in a state where insurance reimbursement pays you $50 for whatever you do with the patient, and you spend 30 minutes with that patient, you can only generate $100 an hour. That math will not math no matter what state you are in America.
And so the problem I see is not about cash or insurance, is that does your business model work?
Let's get back to my conversation with Jay. I want to dig into how he keeps his passion for chiropractic alive. I've been doing about half as long as you had and the thing that I always admire about someone who's been doing it, it's not how long you've been doing it because you and I both know there's a lot of chiropractors that have been doing it as long as you have and they're still doing it, but it's like they should have been out of practice 20 years ago with their motivation and their excitement and they're just kind of showing up every day and checking the box.
But every time I've talked to you or seen videos of you, there's genuine, you could see the excitement. You don't have to say you're excited. You can see you're still excited to do all the things you're doing. What specifically still gets you excited about doing it every day?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Man, I love chiropractic. I just love this profession. I love what we do. I love how we help people. I love how we're solving problems out there that other healthcare providers just cannot solve. And so I think that's what motivates and inspires me. And I'm a Libra, so justice is kind of a thing for me. I feel like we have not had a just journey, and so trying to help correct those wrongs and put us on equal footing with every other healthcare that's out there is also really motivating and inspiring for me.
And then of course I get to work with these amazing people from Clinical Compass or from the Strategic Plan or ChiroCongress. It's like, we have an amazing group of people in this profession, and all of that just really inspires me. So I think it's just my love of chiropractic and the things that we do to help people that really is my motivator.
Justin:
You can hear Jay's enthusiasm, but it hasn't always been smooth sailing.
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
There have been times even when I've thought about leaving the profession. There have been times when I've thought about just doing something different because it was hard. So yes, those moments are definitely there, and I think you're always asking yourself like, "What's my why?" And if my why aligns still with being a chiropractor and being in this profession and doing the things that I'm doing, then I'm going to do what it takes to push my way through and kind of get through that thing that's standing in the way.
Justin:
So can you dig in a little bit to a time where you felt burnt out and you really did consider leaving? What happened and then what pulled you out of it?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
It was pretty early on when I was kind of going through that growth spurt and things were just really, really rough. I think what got me out of it was learning. I forced myself to learn something different, and oftentimes I'll say to chiros when we're having conversations and maybe I'm helping them in some way, shape or form and I'm like, "Look, if you've got problems in your practice, it's either a people problem, a process problem or a knowledge problem, and you got to figure out which one of those three..." It could be all three, but if it's the right people in the right seat, doing the right work in the right way at the right time, and your processes are sound, but maybe you just don't have enough knowledge at this point to know how to solve that problem, well then especially in today's world, knowledge is everywhere.
So go seek out the knowledge that you need to solve that problem and you'll be able to get through it.
Justin:
Even more with that, because there's a lot of people that would've been in your position and they would've gone out the other side and said, "This is too much." What was it that like late at night that you're like, "I'm going to stick with it," during those real hard times when you thought about closing? Why did you stay?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
I think, again, I think it's my love for chiropractic, but I think also it could be partly that I was already in it. So to think about starting something different or new that was outside of chiropractic seemed a bit daunting. It just like, do I really want to do something different or does it make sense to just kind of figure this out and move forward in this profession and find a way to achieve the level of success that I want to be able to achieve?
Justin:
So I remember about a year into practice, I had a full schedule of patients and at that time I was treating visits for 30 minutes at a time, and every session that came in, the patient would pay at that time of service. I started the day with a full schedule and I thought it was going to be a good day, and by about 11 o'clock in the morning, my entire schedule canceled.
And so I remember in that moment going in the treatment room, laying on the table and looking up at the ceiling to this ugly drop ceiling that had stains on it in the office I was in and thinking, "What am I doing and why am I doing this?" And it was in that moment that I certainly felt burnt out. And as I look back, what I'm most proud of was that I just didn't quit.
In fact, I went harder. There's a quote out there that says, "When it's easy, then you go hard," but I think that for people who have been successful in life and business, it's when it is hard, then you go harder. And so for me in that moment, it was these are challenges that are normal, that I have to normalize because I knew where I was going and I had a vision of the future, and because I had hope and because I had a vision, even though in the moment I did feel burnt out and I wasn't sure how I was going to do it, I just knew that there was going to be more out there for me.
I think that for any of you out there struggling with your business or you don't know if it's right for you or how you're going to make it when you're in hard times, the only thing that prevails sometimes is having a hope and a dream and a vision of what the future will look like because for many times in business, the actual reality that we're facing is not ideal.
And I think that keeping that one eye forward on the future is what helps me consistently avoid that burnt-out feeling.
Like every leader, Jay's made mistakes, but importantly, he's open to learning from them. As you're growing, the only thing I could think of going from one practice to four and multiple people and then struggling with processes and then adding more people and through this whole journey is that leadership. And usually when the business struggles, I'd imagine you're going to agree with me here. It always starts with us that being a bad leader in that moment. Can you talk to me about what that looked like and when you were struggling as a leader, where were those struggles?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Yeah, that's a great question. So I've made about a billion mistakes as a leader, and you're so right, Justin, it definitely starts with us, when things are not going well, the buck stops with us. So I was a very emotional leader. I'm an emotional person, period. And so when things hit me or things are not going well, my emotions ramp up automatically. It's just who I am. And I had literally no control over those emotions as a younger leader.
And it's amazing that people stuck with me. Maybe they saw some good in me that helped me kind of retain some of these folks over the years, but I had to really learn about who I was and who I wanted to be as a person and as a leader. How did I want to treat people? How did I want them to feel when they came into the practice?
What was practice culture? I didn't even know what that meant. That wasn't even a word that we used when I started the business. It was like, "Hey, we're here to make money. We're here to help patients. Let's do this thing. Let's go." Culture wasn't even in my radar. I didn't even understand what it was.
So I think one of the things that I did that was really valuable relatively early on was to get 360ed. And so a 360 is when your team reviews you essentially. And when you start to hear what their experience is like, it can be painful. I mean, I literally remember one year I cried. I'm sitting in front of my entire team and they're telling me these things and I literally started to cry. I felt so bad. I felt so bad that I was giving them this experience that I didn't want them to have at all.
And so 360s are extremely valuable and I encourage everybody to do them with their team, but you just get to the point where you're like, "Do I want to be a better version of myself?" And so much about being a good leader is being self-aware. I know I'm an emotional person, so I've got to be able to exhibit control. I've got to be able to have strategies in place so that if I feel like, "Holy shit, I'm going to lose my mind right now," I don't lose my mind because it's not fair to whoever I'm interacting with.
Justin:
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Every successful business that I've had ,that I've worked with doesn't necessarily mean they have a business partner, but they have another person in a business and let's just call for us getting to a million bucks in revenue, starting from zero out of cash.
Getting to a million bucks profit-wise is a really nice business to create.
But everyone I've thought of, they're either business partners, which I wouldn't usually recommend, but it's not even about the partner. It's having another person in the business that can compliment them. And so if it's the person that's the high energy visionary, they have someone who's process-orientated. If they have someone who's the sales and marketing, they have someone who's the finance person. So can you walk through this? And the reason why I'm asking you about this specifically is because, usually you get the story behind the story and like just talking to you, you're the high energy, visionary, emotional, that sounds like your personality, and the only way you maintain practices, I don't even know this to be a fact, but the only way you maintain what you've got with what you have is to have someone else in there. And in our profession specifically, I think, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, it is like, if it's not me, it isn't going to be, but you've obviously figured out the other side of this.
So I would love for you to hit on this because my audience, I just want to bash them over the head on this with this concept.
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Yeah. For all you docs out there that are looking to step out of your practice and you don't know what you need to do, how do I step out and not see patients all the time or how do I run multiple practices and not see patients all the time? One of the things that I learned actually pretty early on is that the only way for you to move out of your seat is to hire somebody and train somebody and support somebody and grow somebody who can do that job better than you can.
So I couldn't step out of my role as a chiropractor until I found somebody who was a better chiropractor than me. And maybe they didn't start that way, but I had to train them and work with them so that when patients came in, they didn't need me, and after a while they didn't even know me.
The patients that come through our practice today, hardly any of them know me, which is great. It's great. They know our doctors, they love our doctors. It's amazing.
Justin:
Besides his wealth of experience, Jay is also an amazing innovator in the chiropractic space. He's an expert at incorporating AI and machine learning, and I wanted to find out more about what he's been up to.
You mentioned the future in technology and I think today as far as what we do in the room technically probably isn't going to be robots yet, though I've seen massage done with robots, so who knows? But that being said, I know you have a big interest in tech and AI and are a forward thinker with that. And you've mentioned in other interviews how important AI can be to our field specifically. Why do you think that's the case?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
AI is changing the world. I mean, if you're not utilizing AI, it's like not using the internet when the internet started. We live in a different world today, and for us, especially when it comes to things like lower reimbursement and higher cost with team members and how insurance companies, if you're an insurance practice, how they're kind of managing claims and payments and revenue cycle management, you just have to understand how AI works and how you can leverage different tools for different use cases.
And so I mean, we're just in a state that I mean I've never experienced before in my entire life, and we've seen a fair amount of technology transformation over the last several decades. But I would just encourage, and I'm sure your audience, Justin, is probably an audience that is one of the most engaged audiences and cohorts in chiropractic most likely, but there's just a lot of folks that are just... They're not engaging in ways that they need to and we're going to fall behind.
We're already behind in digital health. I went to a conference a few years ago and it was HIMS. It was the largest healthcare technology conference in the world, and you got 30,000 people there and you got three football fields worth of vendors, and how many chiros do you think were there? And I don't know. I didn't meet every one of those 30,000 people, but I can't imagine it was a lot because nobody was talking about it. So the ability for us to meet patients where they are, which is many times on their phone, for us to be able to leverage technology to help patients, not just when they're in the office, because I agree with you, I don't think we're at robots yet, although we could, how do we help people improve their experience and their outcomes and meet them where they are? And so all those things tie together, whether it's AI, digital health, the combination of the two.
I think chiropractors have got to get into this game. Our practices are being reimbursed for remote therapeutic monitoring. Our customers' practices are being reimbursed for remote therapeutic monitoring. Is it turning us from a half a million dollar practice to a million dollar practice? No, it's not, but we're doing the work anyway, so we might as well get paid for it.
Justin:
Right, right. Talk to us about EMBODI. How did you come up with it and how did you start it?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Yeah. So EMBODI is our second product. The first product was called Canvas. We looked at our own data when we changed the name of our practices. It used to be called Sport and Spine Rehab. We now call them Kaizo Health. There's a lot of brand confusion. There's a lot of sports and spine and rehab practices in PT and pain medicine and chiro, so we just needed to rebrand. And so when we did that, I said to my team... And our tagline is "Rethink. Rebuild. Restart." We want people to rethink healthcare so we can rebuild their bodies so they can restart their lives. And when we're having these meetings, I'm like, "Guys, we can't just rebrand and not really rethink about our own business. What can we do better?" And so we looked at our discharge data and we have a lot of data in our businesses.
And so we looked at the opportunity for us, how can we move the needle on doctor versus self-discharges? How could we actually help patients adhere a lot better? So we looked at the literature and we looked at behavioral science and we looked at so many different things around customer loyalty. And so what we decided is we were going to build an app and we were going to gamify the patient experience.
And essentially when the patient came in, they would scan a QR code, they would get a point, when they reached a certain number of points, they would get an OIG compliant reward. There are OIG regulations around gifting for patients and all that stuff. And what we found is that app users were significantly more adherent to their care plan and that drove actually more revenue for us as well. So I remember calling up a good friend of mine, his name is Dr. Bibu Misra here in Virginia and I said, "Hey, Bibu." And I told him the story and I was like, "Do you want us to build you an app?" And he's like, "Sure." And that was like the start of our first product.
That product did not have any HIPAA. It didn't have any HIPAA protection. It was not collecting the healthcare outcomes data. And ultimately we knew, if we could drive better adherence, we can improve outcomes, which overall decreases cost down the road and improves population health. And so we decided that we were going to build EMBODI. And so we took all the revenue from our Canvas customers and used that to build EMBODI. And when we built it, ultimately we realized that we built what's considered software as a medical device with enforcement discretion. That's kind of an FDA category of software, and our customers could bill for remote therapeutic monitoring services.
And so it has just taken on a life of its own. It's been unbelievable. We've got a great early adopter cohort. We have implemented AI into the platform to help providers improve their workflow, especially as it relates to home exercise progressions.
And yeah, we're just getting started, but it is incredibly exciting. We just signed an agreement with ChiroTouch and so we're very excited about that integration, and we have other EHRs now that are in the integration pipeline. So yeah, it's just a very, very exciting time for us right now.
Justin:
I'm curious if you could, even from my own practice or our members that are utilizing the normal AI tools, ChatGPT and Claude and all the different things, the one question that is always over our head is data security, HIPAA and all of that. And again, if you don't... I'm just curious, how would you advise people now are like, "I'm using all these tools, but I'm just scared shitless about that piece of it." How would you go about thinking through all of it?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
Yeah. I mean, first of all, you have to have an AI policy in your business. That's where I would start. And you mentioned Claude and a lot of people use ChatGPT, but I only use it for some creative stuff, but I'm mainly a Claude user, and we could go down a rabbit hole, which we don't have time for today, but Claude is great. And so you could even ask Claude to build you an AI policy for your business and then you sit down with your team and you review it with them, because that education and the documentation of the education is going to be really important in case there's a breach. So you have an AI policy and then you just... No PHI can go into these models unless you've got a BAA signed with these people. Now, Claude at the enterprise level does have BAAs.
So if you're paying at that rate, then yeah, you could then potentially upload PHI. I probably wouldn't. There are other ways that you can go about not using kind of the cloud version, but you can have your own desktop version of Claude and you can just use that as an isolated, protected data set essentially.
But if you don't have a BAA with any of these other companies, you have got to be so careful and not share any PHI. And I would encourage everybody to really understand what PHI is. It's not just like the medical record, the SOAP note. There's a lot more that's there. I would encourage everybody to make sure they're not loading any PHI into these models at all.
Justin:
Let's future pace a little bit here. It could be AI or just practice in general. Hopefully you and I are here in 30 years. What do you think the profession looks like?
Dr. Jay Greenstein:
I think the profession is going to be a lot stronger in 30 years. I think we're going to have a lot more data infrastructure so that patients, policymakers, legislators will really understand the impact that chiropractors create for population health.
And I think that's going to happen within the next five years. And if anybody's not familiar with the Chiropractic Future Strategic Plan, it's a group of volunteers, we're all volunteers. Go to chiropracticfuture.org and you can learn all about the plan that has been built and that we're executing right now. And part of that is what's called the DASH, the Data Aggregation System for Health. It is a data lake where we are aggregating data from clearinghouses and EHRs and mobile apps.
And then researchers like Nate Chalati and Katie Pullman and Heidi Hava can go in there and actually mine the data and then publish at a much faster rate.
So within five years, I think that we're just going to have a lot more data to support what we do. I think also everything that's happened since COVID, the general public I think is much more aware and much more enlightened and wanting a natural and holistic approach to their own health.
So less processed foods, less medication, less injections, less surgeries, all those things. I think the general public is finally waking up. I think they look at the medical community and the medical model, and I think they look at it with a lot more skepticism these days, which I think is perfect for us because I think we can be at the forefront of true health and wellbeing. And I see that in chiropractic, certainly in the next 30 years, if not the next five to 10.
Justin:
If you want to take your practice to the next level, go to the link in the show notes. We'd be happy to help you. Don't forget to follow the podcast. Leave a rating or review and comment wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Justin Rabinowitz, and this has been Business School for the Rehab Chiropractor.