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Podcast by a Panhandle Surf Angler for all anglers of any level. We will talk weekly to guests that are anglers and also industry professionals. I want you to walk away from this podcast with some knowledge either refreshed or new for you to become a better angler. Though it will start in the Panhandle of Florida, it will be around the entire United States so we can all learn something about fishing in different regions.
Speaker 1 (00:00:00):
This episode of Finding Demo, most surf fishing is being brought to you by the sinker guy. Head on over to the sinker guy.com and take a look at everything that chip's got going on in the sinker guy garage. Need sinkers. He's got you covered all day. It Sputniks. Absolutely. My favorite ones to use. I know people are like, oh, you don't need 'em for all of it. They're all kinds of water conditions. Hey, I get it. I personally like them. It helps me throw further. I wrote a whole thing on that. They hold so much better than a pyramid or storm. Hey, we all have our things. I proved it from my side and it's a solid quality product. I have some sinkers that are a couple years old and they're still useful in my arsenal and I've not lost them. If you need rigs, he's got it. You covered there all day. Lots of great things on the website for you to take a look at@thesinkerguy.com. Go take a look. Get your order in today. You won't be sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:01:18):
Hello, you happy people? Hope you're doing well wherever you are and that things are just going phenomenal for you. We are in spring fishing right now and spring fishing is good. Lots of great things are being hap, uh, reported up and down the eastern seaboard. I've seen some great things out of the West coast and in the Gulf here we are just having a ball with the amount of fish we're catching. This week, we're taking the old digital plane up to the Carolinas and we're gonna be talking with Matt Tours from the Carolina Surf Casters Association. Lots of cool things that have been done with this, and this interview's actually been planned for a very long time. Unfortunately, my schedule screwed everything up like it normally does. So I'm finally able to get this one to you and, uh, we got a lot of fun stuff to talk about. So without further ado, welcome to the show. Matt, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (00:02:04):
Yeah, thank you for having me. This is a, uh, an excellent media outlet that you put together here. I wish it was around a couple years ago when, uh, I was getting into surf fishing, but yeah, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (00:02:17):
Yeah, trying, you know, this, that's been the fun thing is podcasting has been a, uh, a different game other than the YouTubers, you know, that you can do this while you're driving and not have to worry about a cop pulling you over for, uh, watching your phone. It's kind of a win,
Speaker 2 (00:02:30):
Right?
Speaker 1 (00:02:31):
. Oh, all right. So let's back it all the way up. Let's start with you. Let's start with your story here. Tell us your story and what got you into fishing.
Speaker 2 (00:02:40):
Uh, I'm pretty boring actually. Uh, I, I grew up on the Jersey Shore, uh, about five minutes from the beach. Uh, my dad was heavy into all kinds of fishing up there, so he'd take us, uh, over to the beach onto the jetties, uh, out on party boats. He had some friends with some offshore boats, so we went out on those and it was a lot of fun when I was a kid. Um, so that, that's kind of, uh, what I see as my surf fishing heritage. Uh, it's strange. When I became a teenager or in my early teens, I noticed, uh, my fishing luck had run now. So eventually I got bored with it and got interested in other things. Then about 10 years ago, uh, my brother, I was living in the mountains of North Carolina around Asheville. We had a little house out there.
Speaker 2 (00:03:33):
Uh, my brother was in the army stationed down in Fort Benning between deployments. And one Friday afternoon, he just showed up on our doorstep, uh, saying, Hey, Matt, let's uh, drive down to Edisto Beach, South Carolina and do some, uh, shark fishing off the beach. And I was like, well, that's five hours away, but, you know, we didn't have any kids then. So sure, well, let's go right then and there. Uh, and that was, uh, a really memorable trip for me. It was a long drive, but, you know, some quality time with my brother. Uh, once we got there, we just hung out on the beach from, uh, DUS till dawn actually caught a couple little, uh, sharp notice sharks. I didn't know much about surf fishing, so that that was, uh, plenty for me. Uh, but I remember sitting on the beach and looking out into the ocean and seeing these wild lightning storms about 10 miles out and the big full moon coming up. And, um, and that kind of is what my favorite thing is about surf fishing is, uh, I, I, like, I prefer night fishing for my certain fishing just because the, the ambience of it, the, you know, the pitch black water and the, you know, imagining the, the monsters and the certain death that that stalks under there. And at any moment you could become engaged in it.
Speaker 2 (00:04:53):
So,
Speaker 1 (00:04:54):
Whoa, . I love that the sudden death portion comes in there because when you are at the beach, you know, during the daylight it's like, oh, there might be sharks out here, but at night now you can't see anything. Yeah. That, that's a fun little extra impending doom.
Speaker 2 (00:05:08):
Yeah. I've been become convinced that, you know, as people, I see people go swimming out in the ocean and I, I, after encounters with jellyfish and all that type of stuff, I've been become convinced that we really don't belong in the ocean at all, . So it's a little, uh, unnerving.
Speaker 1 (00:05:26):
I have a hard time arguing that point with you, sir.
Speaker 2 (00:05:29):
Yeah, I'll just stand on the edge and throw a line in.
Speaker 1 (00:05:32):
I've made the point a couple times on this show, and I've said it, you know, on land, I'm the apex predator in the water. I'm somebody's, I I am lower on the ring and I have a problem with that.
Speaker 2 (00:05:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (00:05:43):
Alright, so that was your, so your favorite thing about surf is surf at night. So you took care of the next question there. We we will move on to another memory one, 'cause you talked about your brother since you started with that and where you are today. Have there been any other absolutely great memorable stories that pop into your head that include an unexpected catch or challenging situations?
Speaker 2 (00:06:05):
It's just about all of them are memorable for me, where I actually catch something. Uh, I, I don't think this particular story's going to, uh, impress any, uh, of your audience necessarily, but it was the biggest fish I ever caught. Um, I guess this was about four years ago. My brother and I were added again down in South Carolina. He had booked, he had found and booked a campsite, uh, a campground right on the, uh, intercoastal waterway. And so our plan was to go down there with some heavy tackle and kayak some baits out into the channel in the middle of the night. And for, for big predators, uh, didn't catch any sharks, but I did hook into a, I think it was a, a rough tail stingray that measured about 40, had about a a 40 inch wingspan. Uh, I was kind of hoping it was a tiger shark, but it, it got, it burned itself down into the mud and it felt like I was reeling in a, a twin sized mattress. Took about an hour, but . Uh, but yeah, that, that's the most memorable thing, just because that's the, the biggest thing that I've ever caught that
Speaker 1 (00:07:14):
Had to have been fun, though. At least you got a memory from it, that, that sounds like a good time. I mean,
Speaker 2 (00:07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:07:19):
If, if none of you have ever caught a ray, it is a different kind of fight because when they sit down, they really sit down, they will like, I'm not moving. You're moving me and you're moving the whole earth around it to get me
Speaker 2 (00:07:33):
Right. They're
Speaker 1 (00:07:34):
Fun. They're super fun. Alright, so let's move into the fishing tips, tricks and knowledge piece here. So for you, when you're gonna go out surf now, how do you plan your fishing trips?
Speaker 2 (00:07:46):
Well, the thing about my fishing trips is they revolve around my family and professional life as opposed to vice versa. Um, so for example, when I, when I'm, when I talk about planning or talk about, uh, looking at the, the weather or the tides or barometric pressure or the, you know, the conditions, I'm just looking to see that they're not gonna be horrible on that, that day that I have available to actually go over to the beach. Um, uh, I try to stay pretty cognizant of the, the types of species that are gonna be available at a certain time of year, at a certain location. Uh, so, and get turn to the technical side. I try to bring about at least two bait. Usually one of those is shrimp, uh, maybe an artificial of some type. And I also, uh, pack a couple of jigs and soft plastics and spoons just in case I happen to get the inkling to do some lure fishing, which is actually pretty rare. I prefer set rig fishing.
Speaker 1 (00:08:53):
Yeah, it's nice. It's a little more relaxing on the set rig fishing thing though.
Speaker 2 (00:08:58):
Yeah. I find lure fishing for me at least, only works if I can make it out there first thing in the morning.
Speaker 1 (00:09:04):
Yes. I've, I've noticed the exact same thing at the beach, and that's been a, uh, that's a, that's a point of aggravation to me. Uh, I will say I do see the evening as well, uh, the evening, the sunset bite. I do get in on a lure action as well, but yeah, midday, it's like they just don't wanna play.
Speaker 2 (00:09:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:09:27):
And then a, uh, another speaking of planning, I rely heavily on Google Earth and some of the satellite imagery available there, uh, to kinda look at beaches and pick out structure. I mean, if you listen to your other guests, uh, structure is is key. You have to know where the fish actually are and they actually have to be there in order to catch anything. So I'll go to Google Earth and, uh, see what, see if I can see any indications of structure off the beach. A word of warning on that though, because a lot of people are probably already doing that, is the, the shape of beaches and the structure off there changes all the time. I mean, you just have to look at, uh, satellite imagery of Cape Point up here in North Carolina Oh yeah. Over the past five years to see that. But what Google Earth can do, even if you are looking at images that are a year old and those holes and cuts aren't there anymore, it can at least give you an idea of how the, the tide and the sand behaves in that area. So you, you're probably not gonna find a hole or a cut in that exact same spot that you saw on Google Earth once you show up at that beach. Uh, but chances are, if you, you know, spend a little time when you first get there and read the beach, you'll be able to find similar structure elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (00:10:48):
That's a really great point, Matt. I mean, you're right, everyone, I've had several guests talk about the Google Earth and the planning there, but the, the future pieces there, that was a nice ad man. I never really thought to use it that way to look at, you know, oh, okay, maybe I'll have it for this and give it some ideas. Well played very, very well done. Um, so, so you've already kind of alluded into the next one of selecting the spot and you're using Google Earth. What else are you looking for there? If you call it, I guess reading the beach to say, all right, this is where I'm gonna fish today.
Speaker 2 (00:11:21):
Right. Well, another thing I wanted to mention as far as pre-planning, you know, I'm, I'm not the best, uh, most experienced surf fishermen in the world, but I do have some, uh, some golden nuggets in here for you that I'm, we'll, we'll get around to. One thing that I wanted to mention when I'm, because a lot of the spots that I'm going at going to, I'm not too familiar with them. They're either brand new to me or I haven't been there in a couple months. Uh, if that's the case for someone listening to this, I would say do a quick Google search for beach replenishment in fill, fill in the blank, whatever beach that you're going to say. Uh, Carolina Beach. Uh, for those who are not familiar with beach replenishment projects, that's where they put a bunch of dredgers right off the beach. They, and they pump all the pump a a ton of sand, well, literally tons of sand up onto the beach. And the bull, the earth movers and bulldozers flattened it all out just to combat erosion. What that does to my understanding is it covers up all of the, the clams, the, the sand fleas, everything that used to live there. And for a good long while, that's gonna be a wasteland. So if I, if I do that Google search and all of a sudden news stories come up that they just did a beach replenishment project less than a year ago, I'm probably gonna try to avoid that beach as far as surf fishing.
Speaker 1 (00:12:45):
Yeah, that's a good, very good point. Very, very good point. Now, l let me peel one more layer back on that exact thing that you just said there. Why is it you avoid it though?
Speaker 2 (00:12:59):
I, I mean, well, to be honest, I don't have empirical knowledge of this because if I knew that a, uh, a beach replenishment project had recently occurred, I tend to not go there in the first place. I never performed an actual test.
Speaker 1 (00:13:13):
No, it makes sense. Yeah, no, just, I'm just asking for my own edification, really. I mean, 'cause it's down here, it's, we've been threatened with it for a while and I've heard that the same thing you did, clam sand flee, they're all gone. Uh, and that, that's obviously a very quick detractor for me to be like, well, if there's no bait there, they're not gonna swim away. The fish aren't gonna hit it a bomb. Yeah. But I didn't know if maybe there was something more that you'd also like, yeah, you know, it's gonna do this or this. I was just asking for that.
Speaker 2 (00:13:38):
Uh, the only other thing besides, um, covering up the bait, so to speak, uh, it might also affect the, the structure.
Speaker 1 (00:13:50):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (00:13:51):
If they're just scooping right. They might, it might be something like flat in the sandbars as well. I, I don't, I don't know. Just a guess.
Speaker 1 (00:13:59):
No, I think you're probably onto something there. Yes, because my brain's starting to turn now, and so this is the great thing about conversations and one thing I enjoy about interviews is you can have these kind of conversations. Like, you know, one person says something and you can kind of peel it back together and come up with a, an answer together and it's a win. So, uh, okay. So you got, that was a great nugget that you dropped. I very much so appreciate beach replenishments. Definitely. Something. And backing up a little bit more with the Cape Point, um, some people have posted this pictures from 10 years ago, what the point looks like and then what the point looked like last year and the amount of land that had disappeared and then reappeared and then disappeared and how the shelf had changed. 'cause you guys, uh, that whole area there, there's a reason, you know, that North Carolina's been known for hurricanes. You guys get violent weather, you get it just as bad in my opinion as we do, if not worse. But you guys have a lot of changes up there, especially on the outer banks,
Speaker 2 (00:14:59):
Right? Yeah. Cape Point was about 10 years ago, there was an actual island that formed right off the point ,
Speaker 1 (00:15:08):
One thing I love about your beaches is the fact that you can drive on the majority of them. That is, uh, that is very nice.
Speaker 2 (00:15:17):
Yeah. I, I am at a disadvantage when I, I ought to mention this, um, so that your audience can keep it in context. Uh, when we get into phish tips, I, I usually, well always, uh, I'm on foot and I'm usually hiking long distances to remote locations. Oh, it is what I prefer. So I don't have a beach car. I don't have a four wheel drive vehicle yet. So I just wanted to throw that, that piece out there. But, uh, so I, I don't know much about the, the four wheel driving on the beach. I, I just say, if you're thinking of coming up here and doing that, just check the local regulations.
Speaker 1 (00:15:54):
Yes, that is a big one right there. Uh, I didn't know you were a hiker. That's cool. You're a very, I don't wanna say small majority, but I, I've heard only of a few people that walk it and all the people that walk it are always like, I'm happy, this is my happy, this is what I do. I am good. Yeah, because you get, there are certain beaches that you can't drive the truck on, so the walking thing is kind of a one. I didn't know you didn't do the beach car, though. That's a, you really hiking.
Speaker 2 (00:16:22):
Well, I, I think dragging a beach car a mile might be more difficult than just, uh, packing lighter and hiking. I don't know. Could be wrong.
Speaker 1 (00:16:33):
. Well, I'll have to bring, I have to bring something for that. We'll talk, we'll talk after the show. I got, I got an idea. Um, alright, so we've talked about the locations. We've got some spots set up there. You dropped some great knowledge. Now let's talk about that while you're there. Now you got your gear set. When you're looking to get out there, how do you set your gear up? And by that I mean, where are you casting to start? What is your normal rod set up for that?
Speaker 2 (00:16:58):
Right. If I'm fishing at night, then as far as all my gear, I, I've got a backpack with all my tackle and rigs and weights. Uh, I've got a cooler with bait in it, and then two rods and two rod holders. So if I'm fishing at night, I'm bringing two long rods with me, like 12 foot plus, uh, just in case, because I, I know I'm gonna be doing nothing but set rig fishing. If I'm fishing during the day, then I'll have one long rod and then maybe a lighter nine foot rod that could also double, uh, to throw lures if that opportunity comes up. But I try to, even with just two rods, I try to spread it out distance wise. Um, I will put, and you know, it depends on the structure that you see, actually see out there as well. But if I'm not seeing any structure and I have no clue what's out there, I'm gonna put one rod short put one rig short, maybe, um, you know, anywhere from 20 to 50 yards out. And then, uh, the other one, I'm just gonna belt it out as far as I can just 'cause it's fun. Yeah. That is more than anything else.
Speaker 1 (00:18:10):
Nothing like heman casting it, man, come on. That stuff's the best. seeing how far you can throw, that's always a good time.
Speaker 2 (00:18:18):
Good.
Speaker 1 (00:18:20):
W with the casting piece there, now with your fishing one, 'cause you do fish, the, the times that you said, especially with even, how did the tides and the moon phases influence your surface, and what are the best times to fish based on those factors for you?
Speaker 2 (00:18:36):
Well, as little as I get to fish, again, it's a situation where it's hard for me to empirically through my own experience point to, you know, the best tides and the best, uh, lunar cycles. Um, uh, uh, I'm, I'm seeing, I'm, I'm starting to see slight correlations, but most of my information, uh, as far as ideal conditions comes from bass fishing, which I've actually gotten pretty good at, and which I can do a whole lot more frequently than I can surf fishing. So ideally what I want is a, uh, a new moon. If I'm fishing during the day, uh, and a something more like a full moon, if I'm fishing at night, the, in the bass fishing world, the reason behind that is during the new moon, the knight are pitched black and the bass can't find any, any forage. So as soon as that sun comes up, then that's when they start feeding. And then again, before when they see that it's starting to get dark again, they're gonna, uh, try to load up on as much food as possible. Uh, then if you're fishing at night, then the, the fish have more of an opportunity and are, are queued to go out looking for, for forage.
Speaker 2 (00:19:56):
So that, that, that's the concept for, from the bass fishing world at least.
Speaker 1 (00:20:00):
And it makes sense in the surf fishing world too, to my than me. So, yeah, that's, it Makes sense. Okay. So the tides pieces there, you haven't played with too much, but you're getting there. And then the moon phases. Okay. And you haven't
Speaker 2 (00:20:13):
With tides just as long as the water's moving.
Speaker 1 (00:20:15):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:20:17):
That's, it's not slack or, or high tide.
Speaker 1 (00:20:19):
Okay. Very perfect. All right, well now we're 20 minutes. So now is the perfect time. We'll go ahead and knock into our very first bait, uh, paycheck of the episode.
Speaker 1 (00:20:35):
It is your first paycheck, and hopefully you've caught a bunch of fish already. Life's good. And if you haven't, it's time to check it and make sure it's good. Make sure you, uh, got the right stuff on there. This paycheck is being brought to you by ninja tackle, ninja tackle va.com. You need to go take a look, man. We're talking about rods here with Matt and yeah, the ninja dagger, seven footers all the way up to a 13 three. Yeah, got you covered on that range. And those will take you fresh water, salt water, all day. Such great rods. You need reels. He's got you covered in there. Lots of good pieces of gear, uh, for conventional and spinning rigs. Lots of different species for rigs that he does in that one. Pretty good bait. It's almost a one stop shop. And if you're into firearms and firearm accessories, ninja tactical. Yeah, that website's got you covered too. Optics clock parts, anything you need on that one. And he's probably got, and some, uh, hard to find items too. Go take a look. Ninja tackle va.com get your order in today. So now that we've talked into those ones with those pieces there, let's talk about the rigs now with set rigs. What, uh, we talked about a little bit at Lure, but we'll, we'll dive into that one. You talked about plastics, but with set rig fishing, what kind of rigs do you like to use?
Speaker 2 (00:21:42):
Just two rigs and I had time up hand tie them myself, A double dropper rig and a fish fonder rig for bigger game. Mm-Hmm. So the, that's about it. Uh, now one thing I have been playing around here with lately, which might come to replace the fish ponder rig in my arsenal, just because I'm into distance, is, uh, what's called a pulley rig. Uh, which is a, a British innovation, I think, because you know what, and we'll talk about this in a couple minutes, but they're all about getting casting distance over in England. So they, they design all these different aerodynamic rigs and stuff, but a, a pulley rig, I should have had an example of one, but, um, it's
Speaker 1 (00:22:29):
Alright.
Speaker 2 (00:22:30):
It's, uh, your leader or main line going down to a swivel. And then on the other loop in that swivel, you have the, you have another piece of leader line on one end is your sinker, on the other end is your hook with your bait. And, uh, it employs a, something that's called a a breakaway in, but it's a little clip that Oh, yeah, you clip, yeah. You, you clip your hook in right close to the sinker, and as soon as it hits the water, the, the, um, the hook comes loose with the bait. But that, that's the, the idea behind that is casting distance just to get all the, uh, the weight and the center of gravity in your rig into a very compact package.
Speaker 1 (00:23:16):
Yep. Uh, we did an episode on that with Nick Meyer from Breakaway Tackle out of Texas. Uh, he does the, that he has those in his shop and, uh, he's from England, uh, which was the start of the whole thing. And he talked about how it makes such a difference in getting more distance and it does breakaway perfectly as it's supposed to when it hits the water and it's, the rig is set ready to play every time. Um, but yeah, I'm looking forward to you talking to that about that some more. 'cause I've only had one person talk about it, so I'm really excited to hear you talk about it more because long cast, long distance casting I know is very much so in your wheelhouse. Okay. So with that piece that you're using, let's talk about on the both rigs, what kind of sinkers, uh, are you using in the Carolinas there with those rigs?
Speaker 2 (00:24:02):
99% of the time I'm using just plain old pyramid sinkers. Um, anywhere from three ounce up to six ounces. I have been playing around with the, uh, Sputnik sinkers lately as well, kind of in tandem with sinkers are more aerodynamic than the pyramid sinkers. Uh, I think you were saying, did, did you do an actual test between the two for distance? I
Speaker 1 (00:24:29):
Did at one point. I did. I, uh, so it was one of the very first stories that I started writing on finding the most spearfishing.com, uh, was if you, you gotta scroll way down, , but, uh, I did a comparison with four different, three or four different rods, and I did sputniks versus pyramids, uh, hurricanes, arrowheads, and musket ball. And it was unbelievable the differences when it came to the distance.
Speaker 2 (00:25:00):
Right. Yeah. The, the only thing is that the sputniks were so expensive that I, I kind of reserved them for, for special, special projects, so to speak. Special applications.
Speaker 1 (00:25:11):
Yeah. $5 versus 75 cents. Yeah, I understand. 110% understand . Okay. So that's kind of the pieces there. Um, so weird question, uh, with that one too, with the fish finder. Have you ever tried using bank sinkers?
Speaker 2 (00:25:31):
No, I haven't. Are you talking about for doing kind of a walk the dog? Yeah. Like if you can't find structure type situation. No, I have not. No. Usually and if there's really strong current, I sometimes end up doing that anyway.
Speaker 1 (00:25:47):
Yeah. He's gonna roll on its own. It becomes its own bank sinker .
Speaker 2 (00:25:55):
I've been meaning to, I've never put on a bank sinker for that purpose.
Speaker 1 (00:26:00):
It took me two years from the time that Blake Hunter with, uh, reel 30 a, uh, he told me, dude, you gotta do it. You just, you just gotta do it. It took me two years to finally say, okay, I'm gonna do it. And I was like, huh, it works. Who the thunk it. Dang. But I was wondering if you've had that luck. So, all right. Sorry about that as I sidebar as usual. So what are some effective bait and lure choices for spearfish and how have you seen that different types of bait attract different species for you up there?
Speaker 2 (00:26:38):
Well, um, like I was saying earlier, I'm usually always bringing shrimp with me, uh, at the very least or, and maybe another bait as well to get started. And, um, by get started, I mean that, uh, another fun little fishing challenge that you can impose on yourself is the concept of, uh, starting your session with a small bait, with small rigs for something like whiting pin fish, uh, or spot or roker. And, uh, then once you, you catch one of those, chopping it up into cut bait, uh, switching that, um, double dropper rig gap for a, a bigger fish finder and then tossing it out for one of the larger predatory species, kind of working yourself up the food chain a little
Speaker 1 (00:27:31):
Bit. I like that little step stones,
Speaker 2 (00:27:34):
Or if you're really into it, just show up on the beach with nothing and try to find your own, um, sand please as the first step.
Speaker 1 (00:27:44):
So, Ooh. Ooh. All right. Game on Matt. Game on.
Speaker 2 (00:27:50):
Yeah. See if you can go to sand please to black tip shark. See how long that takes?
Speaker 1 (00:27:54):
. All right. I, uh, I might have to issue that as a, I'm gonna take up that challenge and issue it out to some friends and see how they do. I like this. We're gonna, we're gonna play that one out, huh?
Speaker 2 (00:28:08):
Yeah. So the, the cut bait cut fish, that is, they're better for some of the, the predatory species. The, uh, what do you call 'em? Tions, like clams, snails, that type of thing.
Speaker 1 (00:28:22):
Sure. Oh, crustaceans. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 2 (00:28:24):
Crustacean. Uh, so they're, they're better for more the around here, like the, the species, like whiting. Um, I'm not sure how you describe them. They, I know that there are fish species that have the, the downward shaped mouths, like the drum family. Mm-Hmm. , like red drum, black drum. Uh, so when, when I'm talking about predatory species who would hit, uh, a set rig with a large piece of another fish on it, that might be, I think Kobe would do that. Um, red drum will will take that type of bait.
Speaker 1 (00:29:00):
Mm. Definitely Spanish wood,
Speaker 2 (00:29:02):
Blues, blue bay shark. Yeah. Um, and then, like I was saying earlier, I, I tend to, I try to bring some lures in case I get that, that opportunity. Um, my go-to lure is a, I would say a medium sized silver spoon. That's, you know, whether it's off a pier or off the beach, I've caught everything on those, even when other people recommended gotcha plugs and that type of, that, that's like typically what you would fish off of pier, but that's never let me down. I've caught, uh, big blue fish off spoons, of course Backroll, uh, but they even get hit for me at least by stingrays. Uh, flounder spotted trout.
Speaker 1 (00:29:50):
Nice good species guys catches up there. It's, I love the how much you guys have. You, you have such a great myriad of fishery there. I mean, based hell, I mean, stripers all the way up. You, you guys have so many great pieces to get your hands on. It's really nice, really nice. Um, how do you adjust your tactics for fishing when the bite isn't on fire for you
Speaker 2 (00:30:15):
Take a nap? Um, what do I do? Probably the, the first thing I'm thinking about is maybe scaling down my tackle. Uh, like if I am fish using a, a fish finder rig with a giant hook and a giant bait and nothing's going on, uh, at that point I might think about switching, you know, scaling back down to a, uh, double dropper, uh, rig with maybe, I don't know, one off hooks with little tiny pieces of shrimp on it. And maybe I also move up and down the beach a little bit. Uh, if, if I'm not feeling lazy, my typical tactic is to stay in a spot for maybe 15, 20 minutes and then edge over maybe anywhere from 20 to 50 yards wherever I see the next structure.
Speaker 1 (00:31:10):
Hmm. I like that. Yeah. Little moves make a big difference. Okay. When it comes to seasons up there are, are there any unique challenges or tips for spearing during those seasons, such as summer, winter, that sort of thing?
Speaker 2 (00:31:28):
Not that I find that have directly to do with the, the seasons, but when, when someone says seasons, I think about the, the different fish that are coming through at that time of year.
Speaker 1 (00:31:38):
Oh, I like that. I like that way of thinking. Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:31:41):
And maybe the different activities, I guess. Uh, spring would be more of a, a spawning and, you know, bass fishing is informs a lot of my surf fishing. So when you're talking about spring, I'm thinking about fishing spawn. If we're talking about a, a lake, um, fall fishing would be the fish more trying to, to fatten up and gain calories for the winter. So
Speaker 1 (00:32:07):
Didn't think of the fall thing like that. And that's, that's a big shame on me right there. 'cause you're right Wayne, they though we got migratory fish that run, you know, try to stay in that area, they still gotta fatten themselves up. 'cause of water temperature is gonna change as they transition. I'm wondering if I need to start thinking about that. Okay. Well added.
Speaker 2 (00:32:26):
Well, it definitely applies to bass, to bass fishing where they, they have nowhere to go. Um, yeah, it may be a factor, but probably not as much with a fish that can just swim down to Florida.
Speaker 1 (00:32:37):
Right. But I, I still truly believe, and granted I'm not a scientist, I don't have any hypothesis or any of the cool things there, but I still believe that fish or fish, and whether it's freshwater and saltwater, you can play in both arenas and they're going to do a lot of the same things. They're going to strike the same way. They're all going to eat, they're all gonna, you know, they breathe the same way. It's there, there's similarities. So there has to be a similarity between the two sports and the way we do things. It's just, there just has to be, there's no way it can't be.
Speaker 2 (00:33:12):
Yeah. I, I think what you do encounter more in lakes and fresh water is ambush predators. Mm-Hmm. Ambush, predatory behavior. Uh, whereas in the syrup, you're gonna encounter, uh, blue fish and mackerel, which are very much the type of predators that run down their prey and actively go out and, and hum.
Speaker 1 (00:33:34):
Yeah. That's a very solid point there. And that's definitely a factor I didn't even think about, really. Oh, all right. When we ask you this last one here, and we're gonna finally get into the good stuff. Uh, so what are some of the top fishing, surf fishing mistakes you would say you need to avoid this, and how can anglers continue improve their skills and knowledge to keep going?
Speaker 2 (00:34:02):
I think one of the, the biggest mistakes I ever made was, uh, setting my expectations too high. I mean, we, we did have those productive trips, my brother and I early on. Uh, and then I, I got the belief that, you know, you just show up at the beach and it, it's the ocean. It's huge. And there are just fish everywhere. And, you know, it's just a matter of throwing a line in the water and something's gonna happen. Uh, that there's a fishing, saltwater fishing media outlet that has a, a great axiom. 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water. So, but, and, and until you figure it out, uh, how to, how to find those, those spots, which may take some time if you're a beginner, uh, don't get frustrated if you, um, you know, some days you walk along with nothing, you know, just stick with it.
Speaker 1 (00:35:06):
Great point. Absolutely. Great point, Matt. I love that one. Well, let's knock out, go ahead and knock ourselves into our next paycheck. 'cause we're gonna get into talking about the whole gambit here of long casting, uh, the Carolina Surf Casting Association and the world sport of it, because it really is a whole worldwide sport. It's not just a one country thing. So, uh, yeah, this is about to get real fun.
Speaker 1 (00:35:41):
This paycheck is being brought to you by DS Custom tackle the Delaware team. That's right. You know who they are. Delaware spearfishing. Yeah. Great Facebook page to go take a look at and a website. So ds custom tackle.com is the webpage to go to if you wanna make your orders for rigs, if you're a rig maker or if you're looking to get primates already done, whether you're up in the top of the New England coast, all the way down here in the Florida coats all the way Texas, California. Got you covered. Lots of great rigs for different species available to you than if you maybe need some, oh, I don't know other things. I can't tell you what it is, but you might want to take a look at the website if you like to. Um, we'll add laundry to the list. Yeah. Something to do with that.
Speaker 1 (00:36:24):
But go take a look. Ds custom tackle.com. Get your order in. You'll see. All right. So let's get into the real big stuff here. 'cause I did not realize how big a long casting competition could be. And I went down a rabbit hole one day, and this is how we started talking when we started out with the Tommy. That was the big one with Tommy Farmer. And then I learned from Nick, and then all of a sudden, by following those things on a Google search, I ended up learning a whole lot of weird stuff about whales, uh, south Wales, I think it was, uh, England. And the casting that they do there and the different styles and with pendulum and the way you throw your arms and the difference in a rod. And I was like, oh, okay. This is entirely too much. So let's start at the very beginning. Tell us about long casting competitions and how it came about. And Matt, you are muted. Yep. There you go.
Speaker 2 (00:37:31):
All right. Sorry. All right, go for it. Yeah. So what I picture is, uh, maybe in the 17th or 18th, 17 or 18 hundreds in this country on the East Coast, uh, right when recreational surf fishing was, you know, kind of invented to my understanding at least, I, I, I imagine you had two guys, two surf fishermen, uh, casting, you know, casting their rigs or their lures or their floats, whatever it is happened to the surf. And, you know, not much is biting, nothing's going on. And they, they probably gotten to a conversation about who could actually cast their, their rigs out the furthest . Now the thing is the casting into the ocean, of course, that's really hard to measure. Uh, so they probably decided to turn about 90 degrees sideways and cast down the beach, or they agreed to meet up in a field, uh, at one point and have little casting contest among themselves.
Speaker 2 (00:38:32):
Uh, anecdotally, the surf casting competitions, uh, started in the United States, like full, fully organized competition started in the late 18 hundreds, uh, in places like the Jersey Shore where I'm from. Uh, just, just as, as an aside, I'll explain what, uh, these competitions are. Essentially you get your surf fishing tackle that you would use for fishing at long range, and we're talking about usually 12 foot rods or longer. Uh, and you go out onto a field which is arranged in a wedge shape, uh, 30 degree wedge. You stand at the, um, uh, what you call the, the aus of that wedge called the aki. That's the casting point. And you, uh, one, one after another, the casters cast out into that what's called the casting court to see who can cast the furthest. And there's some other details, uh, as far as the rules and regulations, which I can get into if you want.
Speaker 2 (00:39:39):
But just to make sure everybody has an idea. So casting, casting competitions in the late 18 hundreds were pretty huge in this country. And, uh, there were all kinds of organizations around the East Coast and the West Coast by casting clubs. Uh, around the 1930s through the fifties, there was, um, a Californian named August Primo was his nickname, Primo Live. Uh, and he has recorded casts at that time, back in the, the forties and fifties of over 800 feet, which, which even today is, uh, you know, and, and outstanding achievement. A very small percentage of casters can even do that. He was doing it with, um, I think probably judging by that period, a split cane rod, if you know what, those are the really old fashioned ones made outta wood. Uh, and I think his father made him a, a custom reel. He was a, a machinist, I believe.
Speaker 2 (00:40:46):
So he started hitting those kinds of distances. Uh, meanwhile over in England that was starting to get some publicity. They were hearing about what, what primo ney was doing. Uh, by that time, you know, the middle of the 20th century in England, their waters were severely over fished. Uh, I'd say probably the most over fished waters in human history. So in order to ever, in order to do any, uh, surf fishing there, you needed, you had to be able to get a bait out 120, 130 yards, uh, primarily for cot is what they fished for. So the, the British took that idea, took the idea of long casting, and really ran with it. And they, they took it to the next level during the sixties and seventies and developed, uh, specially designed rods and specially designed reels, and also specially designed techniques, uh, for casting to the point where they started organizing their own competitions for the, the surf anglers to participate in.
Speaker 2 (00:41:54):
Uh, they produced some of the, the best casters in the world at that time. Meanwhile, over here in the us, uh, we had an organization called Sport Cast, USA, I think during the, the eighties. Um, but again, back back to the, the other side of the pond, England, uh, the European, you know, that was spreading. The Europeans who also faced similar, uh, surfacing issues as the British did, they kind of adopted long distance casting as well. Uh, and then other parts of the world followed south. Uh, I think South Africa was an early adopter as far as these phishing techniques. Australia, you see it over in, uh, Japan, in other parts of Asia now. Um, and it's getting especially big in South America at the moment. Uh, so we've, and some of the accomplishments that these European and uh, south American casters have gotten are, uh, eclipsed what some of the best US casters have done in the past. Uh, so that, that's, that's where we're at right now. Uh, so we're stopping short of getting into the Carolina Surf Casters Association. Mm-Hmm. and us and the USA angling surf casting team. Yeah. I don't know if you want me to address that now or Yeah,
Speaker 1 (00:43:21):
Go for it. Tell us about, tell us all about it.
Speaker 2 (00:43:24):
Okay. Yeah. So where, where we are right now is we, here in the US we have three surf casting, uh, clubs or organizations. Uh, the one that I'm president of Carolina Surf Casters Association over in Texas, Corpus Christi area that, uh, Nick Myers is involved in, is, uh, shore Fishing and Casting Club International. That's headed up by a guy named Carlos Una and Daniel Nasif. And then up in Maryland you have, um, surf cast, USA, which is headed up by, uh, long time US Caster Kwang w Coun. So as far as the Carolina Surf Casters Association, what happened, I mentioned, uh, forecast, USA, which was the last really big surf casting organization here in this country, I think in the, the late nineties or early two thousands. Um, the, the popularity of that organization, and I think for surf casting in in general in the US was kind of in decline. So you had some, some groups like our splinter off, I'm not sure if splinter is the right word, but at that time, uh, that's when Carolina, the Surf Casters Association was formed. Mm-Hmm. around 20 10, 20 11, I believe, by a guy named Wayne Hill. Uh, I think Tommy Farmer took over from him shortly thereafter.
Speaker 2 (00:44:57):
And, uh, back in, guess it was just about two years ago at this point. Uh, I think Tommy was, and he's a US long distance casting champion for a long time. Yeah, he's at one point. So he had run the club for a long time as well. And, uh, I think he was looking to get more into his fishing, uh, since, uh, I think he retired not too long ago, so he wouldn't wanted to spend as much time on the beaches as possible. So he decided to hand the Carolina Surf Association off to myself and Ryan Lambert. We, we'll talk about him later. Uh, he's the vice president. Um, well, I guess we'll mention Ryan right now, because what, yeah. Um, it was April of last year at, um, one of wan's served cast USA tournaments where Ryan Lambert broke the all time us long distance casting record.
Speaker 2 (00:45:59):
I think his cast was like 889 feet, which is, uh, just a couple feet short of that, uh, holy grail of 900 feet or 300 yards. I think the, the longest cast ever recorded in the world in official competition at least was, um, 313, 312 or 313 yards. So not far off, but, uh, by, but at least the best in the United States. And we have, uh, several other casters who are casting in the, um, the, that 800 to 900 foot range. So Ryan got with, uh, an organization called USA Angling, um, which organizes teams that compete internationally in bass fishing, fly fishing, kayak fishing. Uh, they're connected with an organization called FIPs Me, which is a big organization based out of France and Italy, who organizes all these international tournaments for different categories of fishing. They host a world championship long distance casting tournament every year, uh, in different countries. This year was in Italy. The year before that it was in, uh, one of the North African countries. Next year it's gonna be in Argentina. Uh, so Ryan, since USA angling is connected with this international group, and I'm not sure how you would describe the relationship, uh, but by being involved, by being a USA angling team, uh, which Ryan and myself and our committee are trying to organize, we would be allowed to participate to compete in the FIPs Mayor World Championship of long distance casting.
Speaker 1 (00:47:51):
Wow, that's big.
Speaker 2 (00:47:53):
Yeah. So the goal is to get our team of three individuals as of right now, uh, including Ryan, uh, to the 2025 championship, which, which is going to be in Argentina.
Speaker 1 (00:48:08):
That would be cool. I already look forward to hearing more about that. Hopefully, hopefully I hear some good news soon then.
Speaker 2 (00:48:14):
Yeah. I'm not the, the best long distance caster myself. I'm not sure if I'd ever be competing in one of those. Uh, I, um, Brian, Brian gave me the opportunity to be the communications director for the team team. Uh, the team president is Carlos Asuna over in Texas, who's involved with F-S-F-C-C-I, um, will Nash is the team manager, and these are all, you know, former champion casters who can, uh, in the 800 foot club, so to speak. Um, where was I going with that? Yeah, so, uh, Ryan offered me the position of, uh, communications director with the organization just to kind of take care of the marketing and the publicity. So I, I like the opportunity, what, what I'm doing is, until I can actually get good enough to compete in one of these myself, I'm kind of competing vicariously through Ryan and the team
Speaker 1 (00:49:11):
Speaker 2 (00:49:13):
That's them and get them there.
Speaker 1 (00:49:14):
That's a perfect tie in then. So let's, let's break into the other piece here. So what is the ideal equipment for long casting competitions?
Speaker 2 (00:49:22):
Right. Well, the rods are, and this, this is one of my favorite topics here is the equipment. Um, but rods are arguably the, the biggest deal, uh, in the sport as far as equipment. Um, with your, with your permission, what I'll do is just to give a quick overview of, um, yeah. Of surf rods as I see them. And when I say surf rods, I'm talking about 12 foot or longer surf rods designed for throwing baits, uh, long distances specifically. Uh, and if someone wants to dispute me on this, they're more than welcome. But I, I feel that they fall into three different categories, these surf rods. So I'll cover that first. Go
Speaker 1 (00:50:08):
For it.
Speaker 2 (00:50:09):
You have Hess, otherwise known as Hatteras Hess. Um, they're probably the most popular type of surf rod Europe in North Carolina. Uh, they tend to be about 12 to 13 feet in length. Um, two piece, probably, usually a 70 30 split. Although some of the older models of these rods are one piece, if you can imagine trying to pack a 13 foot one piece, uh, blank into your car. Oh, uh, they tend to have a moderate action and, uh, a heavy power. So, and just a, as an aside here, um, I, I feel the need to explain action and power and the difference between those. Uh, you're probably aware of what it is, but it seems like some manufacturers aren't even clear on on what that means, . So the, the power, uh, refers to the overall, uh, stiffness of the rod, uh, wherever it appears in the blank action real quick, it refers to where in the blank the rod bends.
Speaker 2 (00:51:14):
If you're talking about fast action, the word fast is used, I think, to describe a fast recovery. Once you cast, um, and that you, that happens when the, the bend in the blank occurs closer to the tip, uh, slow action, you're gonna see more of, um, the British have a good way of describing it. They, they describe fast action rods as j curve rods and slow action rods as c curve rods. So I think that's probably all that needs to be said for now. And if you wanna research that more, you can. So yeah, headers, hes, because what you're doing with them is, uh, casting huge baits in order to fight giant fish, they try to make those as manageable as possible. And the, the way they do that is usually give them more of a moderate action.
Speaker 2 (00:52:10):
So, and, and I can get into that as well. Why faster? Yeah. We'll, we'll cover that in a second. So the, uh, the second category, uh, that I would define would be continental rods and continental as in the continent of Europe, uh, the Europeans were looking at the, you know, when that started getting big, when long distance casting started getting big over there, they were looking at the rods, which I'll describe in which I'll be describing next, that the British were using, uh, with all these specialist techniques and everything. And they're saying that, you know, that that's too hard for the average person. You know, they don't wanna deal with all that. They just wanna go out on the beach and get some long range so that they came up with what are called continental rods, which are, uh, anywhere from 13 to 15 or even 16 feet long.
Speaker 2 (00:53:04):
Those are the ones that you see that are three piece, three piece rods. And, uh, another difference, let me go back to headers. Hes, those are meant to be cast with conventional rods. That's another big point I should have mentioned. Continental rods are meant for usability just to be, um, to allow average people to get really long casts with minimal effort due to their, their length and, uh, the softer action. And they're also meant to be, uh, used with spinning reels, unlike a haters heaver. Um, and then you have what I would call standard beach casters, or some people would call them British Beach casters, but we have plenty of our own versions here. Uh, these are 12 to 14 foot rods, which are two pieces, usually 50 50 split or close to it. Uh, most of the time they have a parallel, but section bottom half meaning, you know, the diameter at the, the feral is the same as the, the bottom on as the same as the diameter on the other end of the rod.
Speaker 2 (00:54:14):
Uh, and what this allows manufacturers to do is give these rods a faster action than they, they'd be able to get with like a three piece continental rod or the, the head receiver with the 70 30 split. Um, makes sense. Yeah. And the standard beach casters, they run the gamut. You have them over here in the US that cast, uh, you know, two or three ounces, uh, over in England, you know, some of their, their biggest beach casters biggest, most powerful beach casters will cast 10 ounces. Uh, and those tend to be the rods that get preferred by, uh, long distance casting, uh, athletes. But anyway, all three of these rods I've seen used in our competitions with a great deal of success. But once somebody is casting, once somebody who comes out to work tournaments a couple times and they're ca they start being able to cast 600, 650 feet and they want to keep going with it and see how far they can go, uh, they're likely to gravitate towards these ultra powerful imported versions of the, the standard beach caster design.
Speaker 2 (00:55:35):
Um, again, that 50 50 split allows manufacturers to create a faster action with those types of rods. And once you have the skill and smoothness to hit 600 and 650 feet, uh, faster action rods do allow you to get more distance because the, the rod maintains a longer effective length during the cast. And by effective length, uh, I guess I ought to go ahead and describe that. That would be in the middle of a cast. If you looked at like a still shot of you casting right in the middle of it where that rod is bent up, the effective length would be your bottom hand to the tip of the rod, rod tip, your tip top. Okay. Now, on a slow rob, that's gonna be, uh, a slow action. Rod's gonna bend quite a bit more. And so that effective length is gonna decrease quite a bit. But if it's really fast action rod, you know, just the, the tip or the top third of the half is gonna come around and you're still gonna maintain a, a good amount of, of length between the, your bottom hand and the tip top. That, that's what I was getting. Oh,
Speaker 1 (00:56:46):
I never really thought of that. That that's cool. Yeah. The whole thing comes together like that. I never think with a u shrinking it down, ah, that's definitely not expected.
Speaker 2 (00:56:56):
Yeah. I'm a junkie for all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:57:02):
The science behind things is cool. I mean, a lot of people are like, oh, I just want, you know, I want the baby without the labor pain. Yeah. But there's a lot of cool things that come into this stuff because even Tommy mentioned it in his episode, the difference of where your hands are could be the difference between 50 feet. Uh, how you throw your hand, you know, the way he showed me how you way you rotate through can make a difference of inches. It, it really, all that little movement can make a huge difference. And there's a lot of science behind the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (00:57:33):
Yeah. I'm gonna intentionally try to stay away from actual casting technique tips. Uh,
Speaker 1 (00:57:40):
No, that's fine. Yeah, we, we weren't, we, when we talked, we talked, we weren't going into that like we were, when we discussed this, we were sticking right along the lines with, you know, what the Surf Caster Association was and the, the competition. So don't worry, I'm not not gonna throw you down that gambit at all. I wouldn't do that to you. No, I, I this has been the fun stuff. 'cause you had really, you sparked my interest when we started talking about it into the competition world side, because I never really wanna, I'll never do it. 'cause that's not me. I'm not that guy. I know I don't have that kind of power. But the competition of it is a really interesting aspect because so many anglers talk about casting distance and how important it's, um, but a lot of them won't spend the time to understand that it's not just how hard you pull with your left hand. It's a factor of the rod. You perfectly explain that with the action. That's a huge factor, what reel you're using with that rod. You know, if, you know, if you're using a Hatteras heaver and you're using a, or a hater heover style and you're using a spinner, the, that's a differential piece right there. You know, that could play a factor into it. The gear matters when it comes to distance. It's not just how, it's not just strength and technique. The gear is important
Speaker 2 (00:59:00):
As long as you have something close to the, the proper gear. I would say, um, the, the gear I, I want people to, to realize that, that long distance casting competitively is a, it, it depends on the le the skill level that you're at, but it is mostly a skill thing. Mm-Hmm. . And when, when you see long distance casters stepping out onto the field with these, um, super high spec tournament rods and, uh, all these super tuned customized, uh, conventional reels, that those, uh, that equipment in reality might only be getting them a couple extra feet compared to them walking out there with their, their actual surf fishing gear, but in competition that extra couple feet is, is what they're after.
Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Makes sense. Absolutely. Um, okay. So you have more, did you want to add more on what you were talking about last time, or did you want to, did you wanna take the next question?
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Well, we, we were talking about reels. That's, uh, I think a topic, a lot of other people go for it as well. Um, we, we have seen a lot of people, or we've seen people use all different kinds of reels in our competitions as well. Uh, on a beach spinning reels, I'll touch on those because they're very popular and they do have vantages over conventional reels. Um, they never get birds nests and with popularity of braid. And part of, part of the reason spinning reels were integrated into the continental rod, uh, concept as an overall user-friendly package, uh, while still obtaining phenomenal distance was on spinning reels. You can use braid, you know, a really thin braid, like a 1520 pound braid and line thickness, uh, does a lot for your distance. Mm-Hmm. . Um, the, the thin of the line, obviously, the easier it flies through the air.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Uh, and somebody did an experiment at one point. I wish I had the figures to share as far as the percentage once you go out, go up a certain pound test, but it, yeah, line diameters, uh, is a huge, um, is a huge factor. Um, but then people would ask, well, why don't I just use braid on, uh, on my conventional reel? You know, get, get those same distances because really thin braid doesn't work on conventional reels because of the pressures that you're putting on the spool during the cast. It kind of like, uh, pulls the, a really fine braid down into itself and gets it jammed up. And you have the potential for really bad bird's nest if you are going to use, uh, my opinion at least is if you are gonna use braid on a conventional reel, you need to make sure that it's probably, and you're gonna be doing long distance casting, you probably need to make sure it's at least 50 pound test so it has that thickness.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Um, again, then again, I would say do, do you really need 50 pound test line on a beach? Why don't you just switch down to 20 pound mono, which is the same diameter, and, uh, that should do everything that you need it to. Mm-Hmm. . So, most competitive casters, um, do use conventional reels. Uh, because you are in competition, you, I should make this point as well, you are re uh, restricted to specific diameters of monofilament. It is monofilament o only, uh, it has to be high visibility and it has to be there. There are four different sinkers that we cast in competition. Um, just roughly speaking in English terms, it's uh, three ounces, four ounces, five ounces, and six ounces. So you have your choice to cast whichever of those sinkers that you're most comfortable with in a competition. Uh, and each of those weights has a minimum line diameter that you need to adhere to.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Oh, okay. Just to make sure everything's fair, just because line diameter does play that big a role in, uh, in distance. Um, and so not, not too many people use spinning wheels in competition because you do have to use monofilament. And once you put monofilament on a spitting reel, you, you do lose that distance, distance advantage that it had. Um, so conventional reels are where it's at and with conventional reels, the name of the game in, in fishing as well. But, uh, especially in torment casting, is to keep the spool spinning and paying out line, uh, as quickly and freely as possible without having that spool payout, outpace the amount of line that's being taken by the, the sinker that's flying through the air. Uh, when that does happen that the, the school spinning outpaces the line that's going, that's being taken out by the, the sinker. That's what crosses backlashes and birds nests. Um, so a tournament caster a competitive, yeah, a competitive long distance caster, they will, uh, really walk that line. Uh, they'll, they'll install special hybrid ceramic ball bearings into their spools to get them to go as quickly as possible. Uh, they'll install custom, uh, breaking magnets into the reel to control that line flow very finely.
Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Uh, so a lot of the times, uh, uh, we call it a blow up or, you know, a bird's nest. Yeah. Uh, in the sport. And that, that is not uncommon at our competitions just because we are getting so close to that point. Uh, I would not recommend that somebody, somebody's actually fishing do that, you know, get right up to that line. I, I fish more as far as the breaking on my spool when I'm fishing, I'm a lot more conservative with it because when you do get a bird's nest, that typically also means that your rig is gonna be cracking off with your sinker out into the ocean. And it's probably, and you're gonna mess up a, a ton of line on your spool, and you're probably gonna go to not be fishing for the next 15 to 20 minutes.
Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Not a good time. Yeah. Okay. There's a lot here. Okay, so line diameter with regulations, mono for sinker, they all have cards. There's a lot of other pieces to this that I did not expect. I mean it, but I, like you said, a good point there.
Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Ball completely
Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
, , but it makes sense too because it keeps everybody on a level playing field. You know, it, if you're using this weight, you have this line with this requirement, it, it keeps, it keeps it all leveling on that one. So now it comes down into technique and pieces and gear. So all that firing in together makes a lot of sense. Um, and I like that. I, I think it's smart. So bravo to them to put that all together like that. You know, it's the whole NASCAR mentality. We all have the same car, we all have the same weight. We all have to, now the question is, is who's the better one? So, okay, so we pulled into those pieces. Um, we're at an hour six, so I definitely owe another paycheck. So we're gonna go ahead and do another one there, and let's keep going with this. Sound good?
Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
This paycheck is being brought to by the kids Can Fish Foundation, kids Can fish.net is a excellent organization that you hear me talk about on every episode. They are a phenomenal group that are taking these kids out and having them fish. And not only that, they're learning it and they're going home with the gear. We had a recent hap uh, event here in the panhandle. They came over, they had, we had 30 families and they just had a blast. And every kid went home with a rod meal combo. It was perfect. And the way that they do that is through your donations, everything you put into that. They are a bonafide, legal, fully paperwork set organization, uh, charitable organization for this event. And they do a lot of good things out there. Who knows, we might see some more distance traveling with them with the good things that they're doing.
Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
Um, but there's a lot of great things. So go over to Kids Can fish.net, take a look at the website and, uh, consider giving. You can also help them by also by purchasing the promar ahi cast net. I have that linked back on finding demo moster phishing.com. You can get that one that also proceeds to that, go back into the organization like that and attend to camp. And of course, at the end of the year, the running of the Bulls tournament outta St. Simons Island, Georgia, we'll be there. Of course. Um, that's another big one for that one. So kids can fish.net. Go take a look. Lots of good things that are doing. All right, Matt. So we, we, we've nailed, nailed a lot of pieces there. Um, is there more you wanted to add with that, or did you want another question?
Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Yeah, well, uh, I'm sure a lot of people are wondering what, what's the connection between this long distance tournament? K but I'm open to any other questions. You already,
Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
You already saw the question, you knew where I was going with it. So go ahead. What's the correlation ?
Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
So what, what, where does this, uh, this crazy long distance surf casting competition stuff, uh, intersect with surf fishing? Um, well, of course it was born from surf fishing, but if you learn the skill of long distance surf casting, uh, this is probably obvious, but it, it increases the area that you're able to fish, uh, substantially. Um, I, I think top anglers in any fish or category are always looking for ways to increase the number and quality of their catch. And, uh, for those who, uh, know how to put a bait out over a hundred, 20, 130 yards into the surf, we're going to encounter, uh, quite a few situations where that that actually does pay off for them. Um, you know, people who don't have that skill will, unfortunately, they, they won't ever even be aware of what they're missing in a lot of cases.
Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
So, and another thing that I tell anglers, uh, who are interested in actually participating in the competition is that the guys who are out in the competitions hitting 250 yards, uh, those distances get cut in half once they step onto a beach for, for these elite casters because, um, a lot of different reasons, you know, maybe the wind is blowing right in their face, all of a sudden there's a hook with a bait, which aren't the most aerodynamic things in the world that are attached with a rig, with all kinds of terminal, terminal tackle, uh, on the soft sand. It's really hard to get a good footing that you need for some of these powerful tournament style casts. Um, so I guess what I'm getting at there is, uh, if you've been handling, if somebody's listening to this and interested in a, in checking out a long distance casting competition, as long as if, if you've been handling a, a surf rod for more than a month or two and have a little bit of experience going out and casting it on the beach, once you get onto one of our casting courts, uh, and you're just throwing a sinker into a, a tailwind, uh, pretty safe beg, you're gonna be hitting at least 150 yards, I would say.
Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
And by the time you're done hanging out with us for a day or two, um, probably add to that.
Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Oh, I thought you were gonna say something like, I'm like, after that, what, what are you gonna throw? What number are you about to throw out there? ?
Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
No, didn't wanna guarantee anything, but I mean, just, um, what would they call like a halo effect? Just hanging around.
Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Hanging around people because you're gonna, you're gonna see things. You're gonna, I mean, it's monkey see, monkey do makes a monkey outta you. You know, the old kid adage, if I see what you're doing, I might change it to my, to my pattern. I might change something up with that next thing you know, I'm gonna see how you tweak, how you move your feet, what it is like that. And you're gonna twist things in your own setup. So it's very, very apparent that that'll happen. It has to happen. 'cause especially if you're learning, uh, you know, if I, I watch a, a good example in my personal world. I watch my buddy Justin Reed fishing. Um, I watched how he cast, I modeled my cast after him, and I went from casting 60 to 70 yards all the way out to 150. Um, and that was with minor tweaks and that, and then learning stuff from Tommy and Nick, you know, I'm still getting better and better, but you always learn if you just pay attention and hanging out with a bunch of people that do this for a living, yeah, you're probably gonna learn.
Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
So,
Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Well, I wouldn't say we do it for a living .
Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Well, uh, do it, do it as a, on the professional level, let me, let me rephrase it to that. Um, you know, you get around people that are professional and that you're gonna learn. It's just part of the game. So, no, I think, I think that's great. And you nailed those other questions there. Um, you pretty much nailed all of them, actually. Uh, let's ask the last one there and then we'll get you into the closing questions and get you outta here for your day. Uh, how can people learn more about the CSCA and long casting events?
Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
I would firstly direct people to, uh, our website, Carolina Surf casters.org. We do a pretty good job of keeping everything there, uh, up to date. If you're ever wondering what our upcoming events are gonna be, uh, that would be the place to go. It also links over to our face to our YouTube channel where we have all of our past tournament coverage, uh, an interview or two, and also some videos from elsewhere on YouTube and around the world that we've found to be excellent instructional, um, content as far as long distance casting. Uh, and then of course we have our, our Facebook group. If you just go on to Facebook and search Carolina Ser Casters Association, it could, should come right up. Uh, I do wanna put promote, um, USA casting team as well to find information on them. Uh, just go to us angling.org, and there should be a navigation on the top where you can look at the different teams and the, uh, USA Surf casting team is there.
Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Uh, and you can also go to do, do another search on Facebook for, uh, USA surf casting. We have a, uh, USA surf casting Facebook page, which offers maybe a little bit more timely information as far as announcements and what's going on with the surf casting team. Uh, and I believe on both of those platforms, what you'll find are, um, because the, the, the CIR casting team, we do have some financial goals that we need to meet in order to present a team in Argentina in 2025. Uh, travel is, and accommodations are fairly expensive, so if you're interested in donating, there is a, uh, donation. There should be a link on our, uh, webpage. And also if you dig around our, our Facebook page that they can show you ways to donate to. Uh, and it's a tax deductible donation that's handled through USA angling, but donate to the US SA surf cast and team and help get us over there.
Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Uh, speaking of which, I did wanna give a shout out to some of the people who have supported us so far. Uh, Tommy Farmer, he's always doing a ton of work, doing a a ton to help promote the sport and help promote our organizations. Um, and especially the USA Surf Casting team, uh, guy named Wes Dolan over in Texas, uh, is a supporter of ours. Jordan Cruz has donated, I believe he's down in Florida, Gotti Farer, uh, and coun again, they're, they're the, uh, that Maryland and Virginia crowd instance, uh, surf casters. So we really appreciate all the help that we've gotten so far. Uh, also any businesses if, um, if you own a fishing or maybe any type of business that, uh, might be, might benefit from getting in front of not just a US audience, but this is a very popular sport overseas. Uh, getting in front of maybe an international audience as well. Uh, just reach out to either myself or, uh, Ryan Lambert, and we can see if, uh, some kind of partnership makes sense there.
Speaker 1 (01:16:21):
I like it. Uh, I like it so much. Alright, you got so many good things going here, man. I'm, I'm really excited to see where this goes. And the idea for the Argentina thing is so, so, so big. Alright, so let's ask you the last ENT questions, then we'll get you outta here. So let talking for, for beginnings here. For someone who's just starting out in the surf game, what is one piece of advice you'd give them to set 'em on the right path?
Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Uh, learn to, to cast as far as you can because, um, the fish are not at your, they're never in that first trough or anything. If you wanna ever catch fish and surf fish, and you need to be able to get about 150 yards out into the, the surf. Um, I'm joking enough , uh, but long distance casting does help, but I wouldn't expect a beginner to get into that. Um, uh, fishing at your feet is usually fine in that first trough. Uh, getting into surf fishing again, I, I would say don't get these crazy expectations about, uh, about catching jaws on your first fishing trip. And by that same token, your your first surf fishing setup that you buy should not be a, a 12 foot rod rated for eight to 12 ounce sinkers with a big 8,000 size spinning reel loaded with 40 pound mono filament.
Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
Um, when I went with my brother, uh, to eda, the first time ever I was surf fishing, really in my adult life. Uh, we just had our, our bass tackle, you know, casting out little one two ounce egg sinkers on Carolina rigged pieces of squid and brought some, you know, brought some, uh, small sharks on that. So that, that was fine for us. So yeah, yeah, start small, start, you know, if you're gonna, uh, lean towards either smaller or larger tackle, go smaller. Um, what else? And just keep in mind that axiom, um, 90% of the fish are in 10% of the water. So probably the first thing you, you're gonna probably realize early on that one of the first things you need to focus on if you wanna move forward with surf fishing is figuring out where the fish actually are.
Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Yeah. That's the hard part. . It truly is. It's the hard, one of the hardest parts of the whole thing. Um, oh, so the next one for everyone that wants to know, like, uh, Matt was saying for any of the links back that Matt was talking about a minute ago for USA angling or any of the other links for the CSEA, it'll all be linked back where you found this podcast, whether it's on social media, but it'll also be on finding dmo suring.com under this episode with Matt. And on the transistor page, transistor fm, if you're looking up finding DMO suring, um, on there, it'll all have all these links on there. You can click on it, take a look at all the web pages, and still listen to the episode as you go. So you can scroll and learn as you play. Um, and you nailed that one already. So you took out that piece and you took out the, the staying connected. So I, that leaves one last question for you and that's what's next for you.
Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Uh, we're, we're just, uh, trying to keep things rolling with the Carolina Surf Casters Association, um, and the USA Surf casting team, uh, trying to build support for that. I just mentioned how to get involved. But again, go to USA, it's called USA angling, but it's really just us angling.org is the website. Um, if you're interested in seeing what the team's all about or where we're at so far and, uh, possibly contributing, uh, what about those? It just, uh, holding the status quo? Uh, I'd, I'd say my focus is with the USA surf casting team at the moment as far as getting that promoted off the ground and uh, set for a showing in Argentina.
Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
Excellent. Well, it's gonna be a great showing. I look forward to it. And Matt, thank you for the patience before, but also for finally coming on the show, sharing your knowledge, sharing all the, the good pieces that y'all are doing, and just being a great person. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Yeah, my pleasure. We'll see you around.
Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yes, sir. We'll see you next time. Alright, ladies and gentlemen. There you go. We just had Matt on lots of great things. Again, all the links, we'll be back on finding demo moster phishing.com and on the transistor page, you'll have all this information at your fingertips ready to go at a moment's notice. And if you want to get into this stuff, really take a look because it is a very interesting world and it's quite the rabbit hole to get with. You've been listening to finding DO surf fishing. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time. I'm outta here.