Founder Feature: Arif Khan and Sabeen Hasan of Chikka Chikka

In this episode of the Startup CPG Podcast, Caitlin Bricker is joined by Arif Khan and Sabeen Hasan, co-founders of Chikka Chikka, a modern reinterpretation of  a traditional Indian digestive - made from maple-roasted fennel seeds. Arif and Sabeen discuss how their product blends cultural heritage with local ingredients, their decision to use maple syrup as a natural sweetener, and the role of superfoods such as spirulina and beet powder in enhancing flavor and appeal.

The conversation highlights their thoughtful approach to packaging design—drawing inspiration from Indian block prints and Bollywood-era art—as well as their strategy of partnering with independent retailers to educate consumers on both the ritual and health benefits of fennel seeds. They also reflect on their diverse professional backgrounds in architecture, urban planning, and disaster relief, and how these experiences inform their entrepreneurial vision.

This episode offers valuable insight into building a consumer brand rooted in tradition, design, and community, while navigating the challenges of the CPG industry.

Listen in as they share about:

• Introduction to Chikka Chikka
• Ingredients & Product Development
• Brand Philosophy & Cultural Blend
• Consumer Education & Retail Strategy
• Packaging & Design
• Challenges & Industry Insights
• Positioning & Market Fit
• Community & Brand Values

Episode Links:

Website: https://chikkachikka.com/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eat_chikka_chikka/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arifilahi/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sabeenfhasan/ 

Don't forget to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify if you enjoyed this episode. For potential sponsorship opportunities or to join the Startup CPG community, visit http://www.startupcpg.com.

Show Links:

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• Questions or comments about the episode? Email Daniel at [e-mail]
• Episode music by Super Fantastics
  
  

Creators and Guests

Host

Caitlin Bricker

Editor @ Startup CPG

What is The Startup CPG Podcast?

The top CPG podcast in the world, highlighting stories from founders, buyer spotlights, highly practical industry insights - all to give you a better chance at success.

Arif Khan
We're insane, delusional and insane. And I think a lot of people in this industry share that or some kind of delusion. I think from the restaurant. It was a successful restaurant. We were profitable, it was well loved in the community and we sold it and took some of our earnings from that to start this business. But I think it made us think, you know, everyone's like, oh, the restaurant industry is so hard, it's so difficult. But we succeeded in it. So I think it gave us this weird delusion that we could do other things that are actually harder.

00:40
Caitlin Bricker
Hey everybody, this is Caitlin Bricker, editor at Startup cpg. We are back with another founder, Future. Today we're talking with Arif Khan and Sabeen Hasan, founders of Chikka Chikka. They've got a modern take on traditional Indian fennel seed digestives. Maybe not so strangely. Pairing Arif's decade of disaster relief and Sabeen's 15 years as an architect, the two paired up and ran successful restaurant before selling it to chase their next venture, Chikka. Embracing what they call being delusional and preferring to fail in new ways, they turn their post meal ritual into a maple roasted product in the most satisfying tin you will ever shake. From hand labeling their first batch to landing in over 100 stores, they're proving the best products come from sharing what you love. I cannot stop fidgeting with this package and I know you will not be able too. Enjoy.

01:37
Sabeen Hassan
Hey everybody.

01:37
Caitlin Bricker
Welcome back to the Startup CPG podcast. This is Caitlin and today I'm here with Arif Khan and Sabeen Hasan, founders of Chikka Chikka. Welcome to the show.

01:47
Sabeen Hassan
Hi Caitlin. Thanks for having us.

01:49
Caitlin Bricker
It's so great to have you here especially as Shelfie's finalists and I'm a big fan of your products. So I'm excited to get into this with you.

01:58
Arif Khan
Well, thank you for having us. And it's, I mean, we are just totally grateful of Startup CPG and everything you guys do.

02:04
Caitlin Bricker
Well, we wouldn't be able to do what we do if it wasn't for founders like you. So it's reciprocal.

02:09
Arif Khan
Awesome. Well, this is fun then.

02:12
Caitlin Bricker
Great. It's fun for me too. I would love to start this off by having you introduce everyone to Chikka. Can you tell us what Chikka Chikka is?

02:22
Sabeen Hassan
Sure, I can take that one. So Chikka Chikka is a modern twist on a traditional Indian digestive. It's made primarily of fennel seeds. We're roasting it in maple syrup and it's a simple ritual of every Indian household. You chew on these seeds after a meal, freshens your breath, cleanses your palate. It's good for digestion. And we wanted to share it with an American audience.

02:45
Caitlin Bricker
So.

02:46
Sabeen Hassan
Chikka Chikka.

02:48
Caitlin Bricker
I also have a little container here, and I just gotta. Just because. Right.

02:54
Arif Khan
People ask us about the name, you know, and they're like, oh, does that mean something? You know, thinking it's like some Hindi word or Sanskrit word, and I don't know, we just take joy in just shaking the tin. It's like. It's an onomatopoeia. It comes from the sound of shaking the tin. We made it up.

03:08
Caitlin Bricker
You read my mind. That was gonna be my question for you. I thought that's what it meant, but I just had to ask. I usually ask if it's not an obvious brand name, so thank you. It is a lot of fun having this container in my hand and just being able to shake it. I'm like, maybe I should put this far away from me because I'm gonna keep picking it up and I'm gonna keep shaking it if it's too close. But tell me about the ingredients in Chikka and why you decided to maple roast as opposed to maybe sugar coating.

03:40
Sabeen Hassan
Sure. So we really wanted to offer a healthier, cleaner take on something that typically, if you've come across it in, like, an Indian restaurant, they're very colorful. They're candy coated. I mean, truth be told, it's mostly sugar and just a little bit of fennel seed. And so we really wanted to highlight that the fennel as the main ingredient. And it sort of came about through experimentation. You know, we're based in the Hudson Valley. Maple syrup is a very traditional local sweetener that's here, it's all around us. And actually, I think a friend of ours had suggested, as were developing the product in early stages, like, hey, have you ever thought about using maple syrup instead of refined sugar? And so we gave it a go, and it turned out to be, like this magical flavor, pairing it really.

04:25
Sabeen Hassan
I think the two things complement each other. And so we ran with it in addition to the maple syrup, also to add some of that color, you know, keep it fun. We decided to explore different superfoods. So the red in the cinnamon flavor comes from beet powder. The blue in the mint variety comes from spirulina. So really just trying to keep it clean and fun at the same time.

04:48
Arif Khan
Yeah. And I think the product, what it became, is like a reflection of us. Right. We're the children of immigrants from India. So we have this traditional Indian kind of idea of a product, but then we mix it with something that's very Native American maple syrup. So. And it's like were born and raised here. So it was just like this perfect, magical combination of east and west, which I think is kind of what we are.

05:11
Caitlin Bricker
I love that so much. And I do want to say you did touch on it. I have grabbed a spoonful of fennel seeds coming out of an Indian restaurant before, but I've never seen it in a package like this. And yes, Sabeen, like you were saying, it usually is sugar coated. From my experience, it's like pastel colors. It catches your eye coming out. But with your packaging, which I'm trying not to grab right now, it's just unlike anything I've seen before. And those colors, yes, it's bursting with color. It's bursting with flavor. The spirulina and the beat. It's a great experience, and it is so unique. So. So how are you approaching consumer education around fennel seeds and around your product itself? What is the goal when somebody's grabbing Chikka off the shelves?

06:00
Arif Khan
You mentioned the packaging. For us, it was very important to have something that was portable, something that was attractive, that people would want to carry around to make it easier. It is something that's used after a meal, so you can put it in your purse, in your pocket, and, you know, put it in your car. So we wanted to have something very convenient and very fun. And we didn't want to use plastic or some other kind of throwaway material. We wanted it to be reusable. Ideally, you reuse it by, you know, refilling seeds. And because we have a larger package that you can refill the tin. But if you decide you don't want to use seeds, we wanted people to use it for other stuff.

06:35
Arif Khan
You know, it's like, truth be told, I thought it would be nice to have something to put joints in. You know.

06:41
Caitlin Bricker
Also, reading my mind there.

06:45
Arif Khan
Or anything else, buttons and needles or what, drill bits or whatever, you know, it's like anything. But it was just like delighted us that I think were making a product that's inside and the packaging is part of the product. Right. So it was like, yeah, and we can talk about our design process. And Sabeen led that. And I think it from everyone we talked to, they're like, you killed it.

07:07
Sabeen Hassan
Yeah, I mean, I guess getting back to the education component, you know, I think a big part of that ties into our strategy of sticking with small stores. You know, Retailers that understand the product and can then share some of that educating aspect with their customers who they know best. I think we've been focusing on regionally in the Northeast, but also are in a couple of locations across the U.S. but we've found that really with these small scale independent stores being able to share some of the use cases and the health benefits and you know, just various ways that a consumer can benefit from the product, really sharing that with the retailer so that then they themselves and their staff can and can pass that information along. Seems to be resonating, right?

07:58
Arif Khan
It's interesting. We, you know, we're in some large stores, large natural food stores and then some small, like mostly, you know, small independent stores. And where we do best is the small independent stores. And we've asked some of our retailers like, what's your secret? Why are you moving so much product? And it's obviously the owner loves the product, the staff love the product and they talk to all their customers about it. So they're doing our consumer education. Whereas if went towards larger stores, sometimes we get lost on the shelves and there's not that dedicated education about the power of fennel seeds or the joy of this product.

08:31
Caitlin Bricker
I think that makes a lot of sense and I have found that to be true. Also, having previously worked for a small independent retailer, Cambridge Naturals, who you are partnered with, which is pretty cool, it is a lot easier, I find to walk into a store and be educated on products because the team tends to be more interested in the products, in my opinion, and also gets more excited about the products coming in because you get that hands on experience of unloading the boxes together, putting the products on the shelves together and then also being in trainings with founders like yourself. So it's cool to hear that perspective from you too. So I want to know when you are going into the store, like Cambridge Naturals for example. I don't know if you've seen it in person yet, have you?

09:19
Caitlin Bricker
There is an epic bulk herbs ball in that store. There's got to be, I don't know how many, but I'm just going to take a guess and say that there's 250 herbs lining a wall. What would make your product different than somebody just grabbing say a handful of regular fennel seeds and chewing on them as opposed to grabbing chicka and chewing on them?

09:42
Sabeen Hassan
Sure. So I guess one thing that really sets us apart is that maple syrup. There's really no one in the world that's doing it to our knowledge. So that's a very one off experience. Roasting it in the way that we do at the temperature that we do also gives it a particular crunch, which I think is more satisfying to chew on. And again then those different flavor offerings that we have, whether it's peppermint or the cinnamon or the cardamom, they all have their own additional health benefits. Whether it's anti inflammatory, antibacterial, you know, various components that really set it apart.

10:21
Arif Khan
And also we should mention we have split coriander seeds in there for extra crunch too. But yeah, I mean, if people want to make their own, they should. We encourage that. I mean, we make our own blends using chicka chicken that we don't sell. That's how this all came about. Sabeen would, she couldn't find something in the, in specialty Indian stores that she liked. So she would mix fennel seeds, coriander, sometimes we'd put coconut and make her different blends. And we shared that with some friends and they were like, this is amazing. Where do we buy it? Like, you know, classic thing of like, well, you can't really buy something like this. That's all we needed for inspiration to get this thing started.

11:01
Caitlin Bricker
I love that so much. I've done like cumin, coriander and fennel seed tea before. I think it's like commonly known as tea.

11:09
Arif Khan
Yep.

11:09
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah. And it's just not nearly as fun. It tastes good, but it's not as fun. It doesn't put a smile on my face. Chikka Chikka does.

11:18
Arif Khan
That's a great thing to hear. That's awesome.

11:20
Caitlin Bricker
I mean, it's true. I. I have to grab it again. It like everything about this makes me want to gravitate towards the package. Like lifting lit up everything. It's like, even if the seeds are gone, it's like a nice little fidget toy. Can't do that with a mason jar.

11:37
Arif Khan
We wanted. It's funny because, like, it's basically like a supplement, but we're not branded like a supplement. Like if you go to the supplements aisle, everything's very serious and very like plain. And so we're like. I think a lot of the stores and the merchandisers, the category managers, they don't know what to do with us because we're like this fun, colorful thing. But it's a health supplement after dinner digestive. But it's a. Yeah. Snack.

12:01
Caitlin Bricker
And so that would be my next question for you. How do you help differentiate for people who might just think Chikka is just a snack? I mean, it could be. Right. But it's not just a snack. So how do you get people to really understand that?

12:17
Sabeen Hassan
Well, I would say that, you know, being a year in, we're still kind of in a testing phase. We feel like, you know, we're getting feedback. And so between the various types of stores that we're in, we've been put at point of sale. We've been put in, like, the digestive aid section next to healthy snacks. And so for us right now, really, we're trying to glean information that we're getting back from our retailers to see where things are tracking and how folks are responding to it.

12:47
Arif Khan
Yeah, obviously we do best when we're at point of sale, but we're also, it depends on the store. Sometimes we do well next to the ginger chews or the, you know, better for you candies. Sometimes we do well in the digestive section.

12:58
Sabeen Hassan
But one thing that we're finding is that I think gut health has just become such a huge mainstream health issue. And we're often surprised at how many people are aware that fennel has this really, like, powerful digestive aid benefit, you know, not unlike yourself. We have people sharing, like, that they're drinking CCFTs and that they've been consuming fennel as a tea and then just didn't realize that you can simply chew on the seed. So that's been kind of an interesting discovery.

13:29
Arif Khan
Another thing I like about our product is, like, the primitiveness of it, which I think is often overlooked. Right. It's like in this day and age where you have the gummification of stuff or powderized, you know, like supplements, where people are. It's like we're in this future world where people are drinking green drinks and chewing on their nutritional gummies, which is fine. But there's something very primitive about chewing seeds that I like, and I think it's part of the health benefits that starts triggering your saliva production and introducing your body to what you're taking in.

13:59
Caitlin Bricker
So it is so funny. And not to sound like I'm going off track with this, but I feel like it's very much aligned. It's so funny that you're saying this, that it's so primitive to chew the seeds. I was just at a farm with my daughter a few weeks ago, and the person who was handling the cow said, the cow grew those pumpkins that are over there. And everyone's kind of looking at each other. And I was like, I know exactly what he's talking about. And he's like, yep, the cow chews up the pumpkin seeds, and then it poops it out and makes more pumpkins. And it had its own pumpkin patch out on the field. It was just so cool. I haven't seen any fennel plants sprouting in my home anywhere yet.

14:40
Arif Khan
But that's the next phase of our project.

14:46
Caitlin Bricker
Others have a big composting pile out in my backyard with Chikka.

14:51
Arif Khan
There you go.

14:52
Caitlin Bricker
Chikka Chikka plants.

14:54
Arif Khan
We're doing a full circular economy here.

14:58
Sabeen Hassan
That would be the dream.

15:00
Arif Khan
It really is.

15:01
Caitlin Bricker
Oh, it's too good. I mean, it really is the dream. Right? I get so overwhelmed by the idea of, like, gardening and planting food myself. It does take me back to that primitive idea. Right. Because when you're online right now, everyone's trying to sell you a course, everyone's trying to sell you a book, everyone's trying to sell you lights and seedlings and all these things. And I'm like. But they didn't have that back then. It's got. There's gotta be an easier way. So if I could just poop out my fennel seeds or my sesame seeds or whatever it may be and cover it with soil, that would make my life a lot easier. Did not know were gonna get.

15:38
Arif Khan
Here, but here we are simplified. Yeah, I know. I don't know how to transition from that, but design.

15:48
Caitlin Bricker
Okay, so this could be a great segue for you to tell me about your backgrounds, because as a former buyer, something that was very important to me was knowing everyone's why and your story behind your product and your brand and who you are. Sure. Your package is amazing. The product tastes great. It's effective. But who are you, where did you come from, and why are you here building Chikka. So, Sabeen, knowing a little bit about your background already, tell me why you're here and how primitive design might be working its way into Chikka.

16:26
Sabeen Hassan
Sure. So I guess without going too far back, I am.

16:31
Caitlin Bricker
Feel free to.

16:32
Sabeen Hassan
Sure. Okay. I'm an architect. I have been practicing for the last 15 years. Arif and I met about 10 years ago, and at that time, we kind of took a little bit of a collective left turn from our professional paths. RF's background was also professional. Let him get into that in a moment. But we moved to the Hudson Valley in 2016. We bought an abandoned biker bar with an apartment upstairs and turned it into a community gathering place and restaurant. So, you know, through that experience, I think I was leading a parallel life of, you know, as a designer and then also as A restaurant owner, you know, kind of up to our eyeballs in the food industry. And fast forward six years, we sold that business in 2023.

17:26
Sabeen Hassan
Really loved the community and food element of the restaurant, but wanted to move away from the day to day of being in the service industry. And so after taking a few months off, we leaned into, you know, different ideas around food and sharing that experience with people. And we landed on this idea of packaging fennel seeds into these little tins.

17:52
Arif Khan
Yeah. And I can give another answer. It's a little bit shorter. Is that we're insane, delusional and insane. And I think a lot of people in this industry are share that or some kind of delusion, I guess. Like, I think from the restaurant. We was a successful restaurant, were profitable, it was well loved in the community, and we sold it and took some of our earnings from that to start this business. But I think it made us think, you know, everyone's like, oh, the restaurant industry is so hard, it's so difficult, but we succeeded in it. So I think it gave us this weird delusion that we could do other things that are actually harder. Someone else said, like, oh, you know, the packaged food industry is harder than the restaurant business.

18:32
Arif Khan
And I was like, no, it can't because you don't have to deal with, like, crazy kitchen staff or having to bail out our chef from jail. So is that a true story? It's a true story. Yeah. But, yeah, so far we haven't had to bail anyone out of jail. And I don't have to wash dishes because the dishwasher needed to play Dungeons and Dragons that night on a Friday night. So I think we're. The CPG industry might be more difficult, but it's less stressful.

18:58
Caitlin Bricker
I love that you were like, oh, we succeeded in running a restaurant. Let's close that and let's see if we can fail. Growing at.

19:08
Arif Khan
Someone told me this recently, and I think it's just a little nice piece of wisdom. He's like, I try to do things where I can fail in new ways. And I know it's popular at Silicon Valley to be like, fail fast. But he's. The way he said it, he's just like, new ways to fill. And I don't want to fail repeatedly in the same ways, but I try to set myself up in places where I can experience new failures. And I think maybe I share that or we share that.

19:33
Sabeen Hassan
Well, neither of us, you know, really came from a restaurant background. Arif had worked as a server in his 20s. I designed a sushi restaurant 15 years ago, you know, so we took something on that required a lot of learning quickly. And so that I think is familiar now in this journey. Not. Neither of us having, you know, worked in CPG before, and I think it's clear that it's just going to be continued new challenges and learning along the way. But, you know, we're having fun.

20:02
Arif Khan
Yeah. And I think we decided it's better to try and fail than to not try and regret not doing it, you know, so 100% chosen to live life in this way. And for better or worse. Right. And I think that's what a lot of CPG founders have, that they had an idea, they felt very strongly about it, maybe their friends or other smart people tried to talk them out of it, and they ignored that advice, and they said, this is going to work. And I think if for most of us, we're delusional, maybe if you're like Khloe Kardashian or even, you know, some celebrities starting a food brand, you're fine.

20:37
Caitlin Bricker
Right.

20:38
Arif Khan
You'll do fine. But for the most of us who are just starting with an idea from zero to something, it's high risk, high failure, and there's something about doing it regardless, like, knowing sort of the odds are against you, but doing it anyway. So, yeah, it's an amazing vehicle for us for, like, introducing us to new people. There's such amazing collaboration and cooperation in this industry. It's great. So, yeah, you. You'd asked me about my background.

21:06
Caitlin Bricker
Yes. Before we get into your background, I do have a question, if you don't mind. Two questions, actually. One, Sabine, with your architectural background, I have to wonder, did you keep the biker bar aesthetic or did you change it?

21:22
Sabeen Hassan
Oh, that's such a good question. You know, we live in a pretty rural part of Ulster County. This biker bar was a beloved institution. I mean, it had its heyday. There were some pretty rough nights, and we just met neighbors the other day that lived down the street for decades and never went once stepped foot inside because they were kind of just scared of going in there. So for me, as an architect to approach it was really important to not completely turn it on its head. For me, it was very much important to honor its history and for people to feel like it was still a familiar place that they were walking into. Especially because, you know, moving in and opening this restaurant in, like, the falls of 2016, you know, we really wanted to make clear to the community that everyone was welcome.

22:14
Sabeen Hassan
And so really, we started with kind of A let's just do a more delicate facelift. And then over time, over the course of the next two, three years, like in getting like feedback and hearing from the community and just seeing how the space was being used slowly kind of made up grades. And I mean, often we just, even now, you know, we run into folks that were regulars and they often just reference the warmth of the space. And you know, it's something that I am super proud of, you know, is it something that I would have designed in like a from scratch, like, you know, no context situation? Probably not, but I think that it was a place that like, still I think stands out in a lot of hearts of people in the community.

23:01
Arif Khan
So I think we did. The thing that you're not supposed to do is we tried to appeal to a wide variety of people. Like usually in business you're supposed to have your target, right? Your target market and you cater to them. But we did the thing with our menu, with your design. And in reality, like we had people who were famous artists there, sort of moderate celebrities, and then folks, you know, local folks that have a very modest life who've grew up and live 70 miles from New York City, but have never been to New York City. So we had a wide variety of people and that kind of made it great.

23:36
Caitlin Bricker
Wow. I feel like a lot of what you both are saying could probably be translated into your product too and bringing it to life. Like especially what you were saying, Sabeen, about preserving the history but making it recognizable to people or making it so that it's not unrecognizable but also approachable to new customers, I think could totally translate over to what you're doing with Chikka. So that's really nice to say that. Now, Arif, I need to know more about your background too, because I'm still trying to put together the pieces of Sabeen, Arif Chikka. So I need to hear the other part of the story. And then we get the birth of Chikka.

24:20
Arif Khan
Yeah, so I'd done a lot of different things. I was an urban planner. I did bicycle and pedestrian planning for a bunch of years. And then I worked overseas as a disaster relief manager. So did that for 10 years. Worked in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. And often what that meant was getting sent to somewhere, figuring out what's needed, coordinating with other people on the ground organizations or United nations agencies or the local government, local people figuring out what's needed, getting money, implementing the projects. So did that for NGOs, non governmental organizations, and then the United nations for two years. Yeah. So a lot of that. It's a funny transition to go from that and opening up a bar restaurant. I think maybe go back to the part where I'm insane.

25:08
Caitlin Bricker
We can always keep coming back to that part.

25:12
Arif Khan
And it makes no sense. But there is a through line, I think, through. Through all of it. Right. I like figuring things out, solving problems and I like partnerships. I like figuring out how to work with others. And the. I don't know if it's irony, but working in this startup, cpg, like in the CPG business, I find there's like greater cooperation in this business than I experienced. I've worked for government, I've worked for nonprofits, and I've worked at the United nations and not to slag any of those. Yeah, there's just amazing cooperation and support. Support. Just people willing, who know more, willing to spend their time helping us out. Yeah, it's cool.

25:48
Sabeen Hassan
It's a really great community. I mean, as you, I'm sure.

25:51
Arif Khan
Yeah. And it's like weird. Sometimes they'll be like, what am I doing? Slinging tins of seeds? Like, should I be doing something else? I don't know. It's not about that. It's like, you know, the delight you mentioned or the sort of joy. I think there's something very powerful about connecting with others through like commerce. You know, it's like we've got this product, you need this product, or with the stores, like you've got a cute little store that you love, you know, and it's like. And you care about all the things in it and you like your customers. And so there's this like, nice exchange, I think, you know, small scale, like, small is beautiful. It's. It's human scaled, it's real. It's culture, you know, it's everything.

26:31
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah, for sure. And I feel like everything in the world, especially in today's day and age, things can get very overwhelming. And things feel very black and white or just like very dark sometimes. And I'll be the first one to say too, sometimes I get overwhelmed with CPG and the amount of waste. And I'd be a total liar if I didn't say that. But when you come across products that are really just new and different and delightful, like you're saying, it makes life that much more special. Like these are the things that are brought into our daily lives that just make it cool to wake up and be like, oh, I have this fun new thing that's making my life just A little bit better today. So thank you for introducing the world to Chikka. Because it definitely.

27:19
Caitlin Bricker
I keep looking at it's staring me in the face. I want to pick it up and shake it, but I'm not going to. But yeah, I think hearing both of your backgrounds and now feeling like the love that you poured into Chikka is definitely coming out and it shows and I love that, like your architectural and design background, Sabeen, clearly is coming across. I just have to show it again. I'll show it a little closer to the screen for anybody who's watching. And the little flip top, just everything. And I gotta talk to you about the package. But Arif, your background too.

27:55
Caitlin Bricker
Working with so many various groups and countries and bringing everything together and just like, I don't know, I feel like especially working in disaster relief and going to places where maybe people are not smiling, maybe people are just like in a dark place. Being able to take that and be like, okay, how can I just make life a little bit more enjoyable and delightful, really quick for somebody. This is a great way to do it. So. So yeah, probably just went on a little bit of a tangent, but here we are.

28:25
Arif Khan
It's okay. What is not a tangent?

28:31
Caitlin Bricker
Well, I want to just touch on your packaging because I can't stop talking about it. It's the first thing that I mentioned to people when I am talking about Chikka because it's unlike anything you're going to see on shelves. Not only what's on the outside, but what's on the inside. But I'd love to talk really quickly about your packaging and how you landed on your packaging design and maybe any learnings that you found along the way while completing that design.

29:00
Sabeen Hassan
Sure. Our journey to start was pretty quick. And a part of that is, you know, just, I think, a balance between how RF works and how I work and, you know, working together as partners that we essentially decided we wanted to go down this path. And in order to test it, we signed up for the Good Food Mercantile show in New York City last June. And we basically had like four months to come up with a packaging. And so we knew we had this like rapid fire deadline. And we did probably something that is not recommended, which is we tried to come up with this packaging not by hiring packaging consultant or a designer, but by using a bunch of different freelance designers to kind of rapid fire move through that process.

29:49
Sabeen Hassan
And I think having a design background, being an architect, having managed designers before, certainly helped in that process. And so we found a tin while traveling just for mints. And we just, size wise, kind of said, okay, we like the size and feel of this. How would we fit the information that we want? What's kind of the general design concept? And so went online, we did a design contest, came up, got a bunch of concepts, and generally got the idea of like, you know, a thing on the front, like a pa, a beautiful pattern that wraps around the sides. And then we kind of zeroed in on, you knowing we wanted a nod to Indian traditional block print fabrics, really something that would make the package something that people would want to keep.

30:35
Sabeen Hassan
Kind of inspired by the, you know, Altoid tin that everyone wants to, like, keep things in and not throw away. So working with that designer kind of zeroed in on what the actual, like, floral print would be, and it still wasn't quite gelling with the color. We knew we wanted it to be super fun. We didn't want the design to seem precious, but just something that people would be drawn to. Inspired by, like, Pakistani truck art, Hindu and Bollywood posters from, like, the 70s and 80s. Super colorful, saturated stuff. And we found this designer out in Topanga, California, and she just kind of got it. And so, you know, through this series of back and forth, I'm a really visual person. So if I got like a 2D rendering of the thing, could sort of understand it.

31:20
Sabeen Hassan
But literally every iteration, I would print out on an 8 and a half by 11 the design and make it into, like a little mockup tin to show Aurif, take photos of it and send it around to friends just to get feedback. So it was like a lot of back and forth. But again, it happened over the course of just a few months, and luckily were able to have them ready for that show in June at the Good Food Mercantile.

31:44
Arif Khan
And the one thing I will add is we wrote a great design brief, and I think that was led by you, and I think that's often overlooked or left to the designer. When people hire designers and they. They rely on the designer to kind of put together a design brief for them. And if I would give one piece of advice, I would say for companies or brands, create your own design brief with as much more detail than you think is necessary. Like the feeling you want, the vibe, the, you know, sensory stuff, inspiration, and doing that before you talk to a designer, because obviously the designer will kind of guide it and coach it in a way that they're familiar with. And I definitely think that having that design contest that we had, we paid a bunch of people.

32:27
Arif Khan
Like, we basically paid, I don't know, five or six designers a hundred bucks to be like, come up with a concept, you know, and they presented concepts. They spent a couple hours, maybe, or hour or two hours, depending on the designer. They got a hundred dollars, and we had concepts that we could take further. So it's definitely not the traditional way. And maybe the designers listening or cringing.

32:48
Caitlin Bricker
I mean, I'm sitting here thinking maybe it should be the way that people are doing it. It sounds good to me because everyone's brain works so differently. I'm constantly amazed at how differently people's brains work and being able to take all those concepts. You're like, now, one day, if you decide this isn't working for you have all these other ones that you can look back on too.

33:09
Arif Khan
Right. I love that. Fortunately or unfortunately, now you can use AI to help you develop concepts, but for better or worse, it's a.

33:17
Caitlin Bricker
Don't add any.

33:17
Arif Khan
But we don't want to get into this.

33:19
Caitlin Bricker
Don't add new fingers, don't add toes. Don't add writing.

33:22
Arif Khan
Always hire humans. You could start with AI, But. But yeah, just for concepts and to bounce ideas off. Of course. Then I will mention, you know, Samin mentioned that first show we signed up for, before we had anything, we had a general idea of the product we didn't have. We knew we wanted tins, but we didn't have the design. So we ended up having stickers printed and then we hand labeled. And I'm sure a lot of the brands out there are used to this. Right. Hand labeling all these tins.

33:53
Sabeen Hassan
So a lot of our early trialing was in these, like, blank tins that we just hand stickered. You know, some of those early variety pack boxes I like was printing at home on cardstock and cutting with an X acto knife just so we could get them out the door and get some feedback and wait while were waiting for our actual boxes to arrive from the printer. So, yeah, it was a little bit of a mad dash because I think.

34:17
Arif Khan
Just kind of how it has to be.

34:18
Sabeen Hassan
Not uncommon.

34:19
Caitlin Bricker
Yeah, no pressure at all.

34:22
Arif Khan
Yeah.

34:22
Caitlin Bricker
Zero. Well, it has been so fun talking to both of you. I'm even more excited about your products now than I was before. It's just so cool, and you two are so cool. I'm so glad we have this opportunity to chat. And for anybody who's listening that wants to take the conversation further or wants to see Chikka in their hands or on their shelves, where can they find you? Online, how can they get in touch with you?

34:47
Arif Khan
Chikkachikka.com C-H I K K A and then C H I K K A.com or on Instagram @eatchikkachikka. Especially if you're a small distributor, kind of. At that point we're in over a hundred stores and I feel like we're like kind of too small for the distributors. But we're, you know, there's some small chains of stores that are interested that require distributors and we don't have that.

35:11
Caitlin Bricker
So I feel like this would be the perfect stocking stuffer for the holiday season. Just throwing it out there.

35:16
Arif Khan
Or even before Thanksgiving when people tend to eat too much. This is a perfect addition to the dinner table if you want happy guests.

35:25
Caitlin Bricker
I'm so doing that. Such a great idea.

35:29
Arif Khan
Awesome.

35:30
Sabeen Hassan
Oh, well, thank you.

35:31
Arif Khan
Thank you so much. And thank you everyone@Startup CPG. You guys are great. Really appreciate it.

35:37
Caitlin Bricker
Thank you. Like I said before, we couldn't do it without people like you. So thank you very much and talk to you soon.

35:43
Arif Khan
Thanks.

35:44
Sabeen Hassan
All right, take care.

35:45
Arif Khan
Take care.

35:45
Caitlin Bricker
Bye. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, do us a solid and leave us a five star review on ratethispodcast.com startup cpg I'm Caitlin Bricker, the host of the Founder feature series and editor at Startup CPG. Feel free to find me on LinkedIn or reach out to me on Slack and get on my radar. I'm always keeping my eyes peeled for new and emerging brands to see Spotlight. If you're a potential sponsor who would like to appear on the podcast, Please email partnerships startupcpg.com and finally, as a reminder for anyone listening, if you haven't already, we would love for you to join our free CPG community on Slack. You can sign up via our [e-mail] see you around.