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Rethink Culture is the podcast that shines the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture. Virtually all of the business leaders who make headlines today do so because of their company performance. Yet, the people and the culture of a company is at least as important as its performance. It's time that we shine the spotlight on the leaders who are rethinking workplace culture and are putting people and culture at the forefront.
[00:00:08.19 - 00:00:10.22] Good morning, good afternoon and good
[00:00:10.22 - 00:00:13.20] evening. Welcome to Rethink Culture, the
[00:00:13.20 - 00:00:15.14] podcast that shines the spotlight on
[00:00:15.14 - 00:00:18.02] leaders of businesses that people love to
[00:00:18.02 - 00:00:21.05] work for. My name is Andreas Konstantinou
[00:00:21.05 - 00:00:24.08] and I'm your host and I see myself as a
[00:00:24.08 - 00:00:27.01] micromanager who turned servant leader and
[00:00:27.01 - 00:00:28.19] in the process developed a personal
[00:00:28.19 - 00:00:31.20] passion for culture. Our latest project at
[00:00:31.20 - 00:00:33.14] Rethink Culture is the Culture Health
[00:00:33.14 - 00:00:35.22] Check, an online service that lets you
[00:00:35.22 - 00:00:38.13] measure your culture so you can manage it.
[00:00:39.22 - 00:00:42.23] Today I have the pleasure of welcoming a
[00:00:42.23 - 00:00:47.01] special guest, Kristi Herold. Kristi is
[00:00:47.01 - 00:00:49.13] the founder and CEO of JAM. It's a
[00:00:49.13 - 00:00:50.22] business that has helped millions of
[00:00:50.22 - 00:00:53.22] people introduce play at work through more
[00:00:53.22 - 00:00:56.10] than 4,000 playful corporate events in
[00:00:56.10 - 00:01:00.02] over 30 countries. JAM has been awarded
[00:01:00.02 - 00:01:03.10] Canada's most admired culture award and
[00:01:03.10 - 00:01:05.04] Kristi has been awarded Canada's most
[00:01:05.04 - 00:01:09.14] powerful women top 100 and she's also the
[00:01:09.14 - 00:01:12.11] best-selling author of the book It Pays to
[00:01:12.11 - 00:01:14.04] Play, which is how I got to know about
[00:01:14.04 - 00:01:17.07] her. Her vision is to get to 1 million
[00:01:17.07 - 00:01:20.13] people playing annually. She also tells me
[00:01:20.13 - 00:01:22.19] she loves to sing and in her 40s she
[00:01:22.19 - 00:01:24.22] decided to teach herself how to play
[00:01:24.22 - 00:01:27.05] guitar so that she could sing along and
[00:01:27.05 - 00:01:29.04] she loves to play anything from cards to
[00:01:29.04 - 00:01:32.22] theater to singing. So with that
[00:01:32.22 - 00:01:34.07] introduction, with that playful
[00:01:34.07 - 00:01:36.07] introduction, very welcome to the Rethink
[00:01:36.07 - 00:01:38.14] Culture podcast, Kristi.
[00:01:38.14 - 00:01:40.01] Thanks so much for having me, Andreas.
[00:01:40.01 - 00:01:41.17] It's nice to be here.
[00:01:41.17 - 00:01:45.11] So where do we start? Tell us what
[00:01:45.11 - 00:01:48.17] JAM does and how you got to founding JAM.
[00:01:48.19 - 00:01:52.14] Well, I started JAM about 28 years ago
[00:01:52.14 - 00:01:55.22] now, in 1996. It was originally called the
[00:01:55.22 - 00:01:58.16] Sport and Social Club and I'd say the
[00:01:58.16 - 00:02:01.07] biggest portion of the organization,
[00:02:01.07 - 00:02:04.13] probably 85% of what we do, is actually
[00:02:04.13 - 00:02:07.10] operating adult recreational sports
[00:02:07.10 - 00:02:10.19] leagues. So think soccer, football,
[00:02:11.10 - 00:02:16.07] basketball, volleyball, curling, like
[00:02:16.07 - 00:02:20.13] ultimate frisbee, softball, kickball, all
[00:02:20.13 - 00:02:23.01] sorts of different types of sports. We
[00:02:23.01 - 00:02:26.07] operate in 25 cities now in Canada and the
[00:02:26.07 - 00:02:28.20] U.S. and I have a team of about 50 full
[00:02:28.20 - 00:02:32.04] -time employees and 500 part-time that are
[00:02:32.04 - 00:02:34.14] helping get thousands and thousands of
[00:02:34.14 - 00:02:38.10] people off the couch every day to play
[00:02:38.10 - 00:02:40.22] recreational sports. So that was the
[00:02:40.22 - 00:02:44.05] initial gist of what the business I
[00:02:44.05 - 00:02:45.22] started and when I started it, it was just
[00:02:45.22 - 00:02:50.16] me back in 1996 and it's grown over the
[00:02:50.16 - 00:02:54.01] years. But then during the pandemic, we
[00:02:54.01 - 00:02:56.10] were told the mandates in Canada were
[00:02:56.10 - 00:02:58.10] incredibly harsh and we lost about 18
[00:02:58.10 - 00:03:00.19] months of revenue. We were not allowed to
[00:03:00.19 - 00:03:02.16] operate our sports leagues. And so it was
[00:03:02.16 - 00:03:04.13] during that time that we started looking,
[00:03:04.16 - 00:03:06.04] well, how can we connect people through
[00:03:06.04 - 00:03:08.07] play, which is our core purpose? How can
[00:03:08.07 - 00:03:10.07] we do that differently because we can't
[00:03:10.07 - 00:03:12.19] play sports right now? And so we started
[00:03:12.19 - 00:03:15.08] these virtual team-building playful events
[00:03:15.08 - 00:03:17.22] online for corporations. We produced over
[00:03:17.22 - 00:03:19.22] 1500 events in that first year for
[00:03:19.22 - 00:03:21.23] companies all around the world and those
[00:03:21.23 - 00:03:24.22] are things like escape rooms, scavenger
[00:03:24.22 - 00:03:26.22] hunts, game shows, all these different
[00:03:26.22 - 00:03:28.23] types of corporate events. And now that
[00:03:28.23 - 00:03:31.13] the pandemic is behind us, we still do
[00:03:31.13 - 00:03:33.07] virtual corporate team-building events,
[00:03:33.08 - 00:03:36.13] but we also do in-person things like field
[00:03:36.13 - 00:03:41.04] days and office Olympics and gosh,
[00:03:41.07 - 00:03:43.10] scavenger hunts, amazing races. We do all
[00:03:43.10 - 00:03:44.16] these different types of corporate events
[00:03:44.16 - 00:03:47.07] for companies all around North America. So
[00:03:47.07 - 00:03:50.01] we're connecting people through play with
[00:03:50.01 - 00:03:51.11] both the adult recreational sports
[00:03:51.11 - 00:03:52.19] leagues, as well as the corporate team
[00:03:52.19 - 00:03:55.10] -building. And that's why I'm just a big
[00:03:55.10 - 00:03:58.11] believer in the power of play for both our
[00:03:58.11 - 00:04:00.22] personal lives and our work lives. And
[00:04:00.22 - 00:04:03.11] that's why I was inspired to write the
[00:04:03.11 - 00:04:05.10] book because we've always had a really
[00:04:05.10 - 00:04:09.02] playful culture at JAM. We have a lot of
[00:04:09.02 - 00:04:10.16] fun with the work we do. It's not just
[00:04:10.16 - 00:04:12.22] about stopping work to play. It's about
[00:04:12.22 - 00:04:15.16] having fun the way we do our work. Like
[00:04:15.16 - 00:04:18.01] every one of our meetings starts with, we
[00:04:18.01 - 00:04:20.10] press play to start. So there's three or
[00:04:20.10 - 00:04:21.20] four minutes where whoever's leading the
[00:04:21.20 - 00:04:24.07] meeting has a playful interaction to get
[00:04:24.07 - 00:04:26.22] things going. There's tons of ways that we
[00:04:26.22 - 00:04:29.07] play inside our day-to-day operations. And
[00:04:29.07 - 00:04:31.08] so I was inspired to write the book to try
[00:04:31.08 - 00:04:33.07] and inspire other people because I've just
[00:04:33.07 - 00:04:35.11] seen the results of it in our own
[00:04:35.11 - 00:04:38.01] organization and now with our clients, how
[00:04:38.01 - 00:04:41.05] powerfully play can impact the workplace culture.
[00:04:41.10 - 00:04:43.13] And what was your aha moment in getting
[00:04:43.13 - 00:04:46.02] into that business, starting that business?
[00:04:46.02 - 00:04:49.10] How did your childhood or your formative
[00:04:49.10 - 00:04:53.07] experiences affect your life's mission,
[00:04:53.07 - 00:04:55.17] which is what I'm hearing is play?
[00:04:58.11 - 00:05:01.02] It's funny. It was only about 10
[00:05:01.02 - 00:05:03.07] years ago that I sort of realized my
[00:05:03.07 - 00:05:05.16] life's purpose is really about connecting
[00:05:05.16 - 00:05:07.04] people through play. But now I'm
[00:05:07.04 - 00:05:09.11] constantly, when I look back, I can see
[00:05:09.11 - 00:05:13.02] all the examples over my life of how I
[00:05:13.02 - 00:05:17.17] connect people. Anyways. And so to answer
[00:05:17.17 - 00:05:19.19] your question, what inspired me to start
[00:05:19.19 - 00:05:21.16] what was originally the sport and social
[00:05:21.16 - 00:05:26.19] club now called JAM? So growing up, I was
[00:05:26.19 - 00:05:28.19] raised in an entrepreneurial household. My
[00:05:28.19 - 00:05:31.16] dad was an entrepreneur. And we were
[00:05:31.16 - 00:05:33.07] really encouraged to work for the things
[00:05:33.07 - 00:05:35.13] that we wanted in our lives. So I ran all
[00:05:35.13 - 00:05:36.22] sorts of little businesses when I was a
[00:05:36.22 - 00:05:39.07] kid, lawn cutting. And I had in
[00:05:39.07 - 00:05:41.11] university, I had a painting, a
[00:05:41.11 - 00:05:43.16] residential painting business. And I had a
[00:05:43.16 - 00:05:44.23] custom clothing business selling
[00:05:45.13 - 00:05:47.16] sweatshirts and baseball hats to teams on
[00:05:47.16 - 00:05:50.08] campus at university. So it was always, I
[00:05:50.08 - 00:05:53.07] knew I wanted to run my own business. And
[00:05:53.07 - 00:05:55.04] when I moved to Toronto, I had been raised
[00:05:55.04 - 00:05:57.04] in a small city about four hours north of
[00:05:57.04 - 00:05:58.13] Toronto. When I moved to Toronto after
[00:05:58.13 - 00:06:00.22] university, I was looking to meet people
[00:06:00.22 - 00:06:02.17] and I didn't know how to meet people. It
[00:06:02.17 - 00:06:05.13] was hard. And I wanted to make friends.
[00:06:05.19 - 00:06:08.19] And so I looked into joining soccer
[00:06:08.19 - 00:06:11.05] league. And there were only really
[00:06:11.05 - 00:06:13.05] competitive women's league. And I was a
[00:06:13.05 - 00:06:15.13] good athlete, but I wasn't a great soccer
[00:06:15.13 - 00:06:19.05] player. And so I'd heard about these adult
[00:06:19.05 - 00:06:21.20] recreational sports leagues in San
[00:06:21.20 - 00:06:23.17] Francisco and one in Chicago. And I
[00:06:23.17 - 00:06:25.22] thought, maybe I'll try starting that in
[00:06:25.22 - 00:06:28.16] Toronto. And that was the inspiration
[00:06:28.16 - 00:06:30.22] behind it. And it's true. The number of
[00:06:30.22 - 00:06:33.23] people who have joined our leagues and
[00:06:33.23 - 00:06:36.22] made best friends for life or have met
[00:06:36.22 - 00:06:39.04] their love match, there have been
[00:06:39.04 - 00:06:41.10] thousands and thousands of marriages and
[00:06:41.10 - 00:06:43.07] babies born because of the people that
[00:06:43.07 - 00:06:45.10] have played in our leagues and met that
[00:06:45.10 - 00:06:48.05] special someone. And just more that people
[00:06:48.05 - 00:06:49.23] are connecting and making great friends or
[00:06:49.23 - 00:06:52.16] people are signing up with a work, a group
[00:06:52.16 - 00:06:55.05] from work and getting to know their work
[00:06:55.05 - 00:06:58.05] colleagues, playing soccer or volleyball
[00:06:58.05 - 00:07:00.01] or basketball. It's a really different way
[00:07:00.01 - 00:07:02.05] to get to know people than sitting around
[00:07:02.05 - 00:07:03.19] a boardroom looking at a spreadsheet.
[00:07:03.19 - 00:07:06.19] Right. And it makes these really fosters
[00:07:06.19 - 00:07:09.10] an incredible relationship. So it's just
[00:07:09.10 - 00:07:12.01] always felt so good. I've loved what I've
[00:07:12.01 - 00:07:14.10] done. I just love what I get to do every
[00:07:14.10 - 00:07:16.08] day. I love what we're doing, how we're
[00:07:16.08 - 00:07:19.04] touching people's lives in such a positive way.
[00:07:19.05 - 00:07:23.07] Have you been able to inspire or how
[00:07:23.07 - 00:07:25.02] do you inspire people at a bigger scale?
[00:07:25.02 - 00:07:27.20] So you said you have lots of teams you're
[00:07:27.20 - 00:07:31.07] enabling and clients in North America.
[00:07:31.22 - 00:07:36.05] But how do you get people in businesses
[00:07:36.05 - 00:07:39.04] to play, to realize the value of play?
[00:07:39.04 - 00:07:42.04] I guess that's why you wrote the book.
[00:07:42.14 - 00:07:43.22] That's why I wrote the book. I do a
[00:07:43.22 - 00:07:46.23] lot of keynote speaking because it's a
[00:07:46.23 - 00:07:48.07] message I'm incredibly passionate about.
[00:07:48.10 - 00:07:50.07] And we have some culture consulting as
[00:07:50.07 - 00:07:51.13] well for companies that are interested,
[00:07:51.19 - 00:07:53.17] like that are kind of like, how how do you
[00:07:53.17 - 00:07:56.19] do this? Like, bring us in and we can it's
[00:07:56.19 - 00:07:59.19] we can help people make their
[00:07:59.19 - 00:08:02.16] organizations more playful and more fun in
[00:08:02.16 - 00:08:05.02] a without stopping the work, because we
[00:08:05.02 - 00:08:06.22] all we have to get the work done, right?
[00:08:06.23 - 00:08:08.14] Like you have to do your presentation.
[00:08:08.23 - 00:08:10.19] You've got to have those weekly touchpoint
[00:08:10.19 - 00:08:13.13] meetings. We need the spreadsheets in our
[00:08:13.13 - 00:08:16.16] lives to get business happening. But it's
[00:08:16.16 - 00:08:19.04] how you do it, how you have fun with the
[00:08:19.04 - 00:08:21.02] work you're doing is what we're really
[00:08:21.02 - 00:08:23.01] we're really good at, you know, and I
[00:08:23.01 - 00:08:25.14] think you were as that one example was the
[00:08:25.14 - 00:08:28.14] how we onboard new employees. You heard
[00:08:28.14 - 00:08:30.23] about that through Joey Coleman. You heard
[00:08:30.23 - 00:08:32.14] Joey Coleman talking about our
[00:08:32.14 - 00:08:36.04] organization. And yeah, like we we have a
[00:08:36.04 - 00:08:39.19] really fun celebration when people arrive
[00:08:39.19 - 00:08:42.07] for their first day of work with us. We're
[00:08:42.07 - 00:08:44.16] all wearing our veterans on our team. When
[00:08:44.16 - 00:08:45.20] you get to your one year mark, you get
[00:08:45.20 - 00:08:47.22] officially drafted to the team as a
[00:08:47.22 - 00:08:50.10] veteran and you get your JAM hockey jersey
[00:08:50.10 - 00:08:52.07] and it's got JAM logo on the front and
[00:08:52.07 - 00:08:54.07] your name and number on the back. And your
[00:08:54.07 - 00:08:57.04] number is the year you started with us. So
[00:08:57.04 - 00:09:00.04] to mine's mine's a 96 I've been around a
[00:09:00.04 - 00:09:03.13] long time. And anyway, so we're all
[00:09:03.13 - 00:09:05.04] wearing our veterans jerseys and anybody
[00:09:05.04 - 00:09:06.17] who's still a rookie has their rookie
[00:09:06.17 - 00:09:08.22] hoodie on. And when that new person walks
[00:09:08.22 - 00:09:11.07] in the door, we're there with the song
[00:09:11.07 - 00:09:13.07] their walk up song is blaring, which we've
[00:09:13.07 - 00:09:14.19] during their application. What's your
[00:09:14.19 - 00:09:16.19] favorite song? You know, we're high fiving
[00:09:16.19 - 00:09:20.01] them walking, welcoming them into they
[00:09:20.01 - 00:09:21.08] come into the boardroom and then they see
[00:09:21.08 - 00:09:22.20] up on the boardroom. All of our remote
[00:09:22.20 - 00:09:26.13] employees are up on the screen. Whoever's
[00:09:26.13 - 00:09:28.10] working from wherever is there to welcome
[00:09:28.10 - 00:09:30.13] them. And then we do a quick, very quick
[00:09:30.13 - 00:09:33.20] round of sort of three silly questions. It
[00:09:33.20 - 00:09:35.10] just gets passed around. Different people
[00:09:35.10 - 00:09:37.07] ask the question of the new the new
[00:09:37.07 - 00:09:38.19] teammate to get to know them very quickly.
[00:09:38.22 - 00:09:40.13] And then they start their day. It
[00:09:40.13 - 00:09:44.04] literally takes five minutes. It's costs
[00:09:44.04 - 00:09:47.16] us nothing. But that's a day those
[00:09:47.16 - 00:09:50.05] teammates will never forget. They're never
[00:09:50.05 - 00:09:52.08] going to forget their first day at JAM. It
[00:09:52.08 - 00:09:54.07] makes them feel welcomed to the team
[00:09:54.07 - 00:09:57.10] immediately and they realize this is a fun
[00:09:57.10 - 00:10:00.05] place to work. I like it here. Right. So
[00:10:00.05 - 00:10:02.20] it's just that's the kind of thing we have
[00:10:02.20 - 00:10:05.08] loads of ways that we integrate
[00:10:05.08 - 00:10:07.16] playfulness into the day to day work. You
[00:10:07.16 - 00:10:09.19] have to onboard people. How do you make
[00:10:09.19 - 00:10:11.10] it? How do you make them feel special?
[00:10:11.19 - 00:10:13.22] Because I want you go through so much work
[00:10:13.22 - 00:10:16.04] recruiting and hiring and training. You
[00:10:16.04 - 00:10:18.05] want them to stick around. Right. So
[00:10:18.05 - 00:10:21.14] you've got to start right away with with
[00:10:21.14 - 00:10:22.16] having them feel great.
[00:10:22.16 - 00:10:23.17] Yeah. The first
[00:10:23.17 - 00:10:26.10] day at work is very much underappreciated
[00:10:26.10 - 00:10:29.10] by most people. I think it's a rule in
[00:10:29.10 - 00:10:31.14] most businesses that you get just, you
[00:10:31.14 - 00:10:34.07] know, no thought put on the first day at
[00:10:34.07 - 00:10:36.04] work other than arranging a few meetings
[00:10:36.04 - 00:10:37.22] for you and, you know, handing you your
[00:10:37.22 - 00:10:39.07] desk and your laptop.
[00:10:39.07 - 00:10:40.16] Yeah.
[00:10:40.16 - 00:10:43.02] When connection is the most important thing you
[00:10:43.02 - 00:10:44.16] can do on your first day. Right?
[00:10:44.16 - 00:10:45.19] Absolutely.
[00:10:45.19 - 00:10:48.10] Joey puts it very well. Joey Coleman.
[00:10:48.10 - 00:10:50.20] That this is when you're starting
[00:10:50.20 - 00:10:56.08] on a new job. You've been really dreaming
[00:10:56.08 - 00:11:00.02] about this for a few weeks, at least, if
[00:11:00.02 - 00:11:03.04] not months. And, you know, if you think
[00:11:03.04 - 00:11:05.13] about what other events in life you really
[00:11:07.17 - 00:11:10.07] develop such an anticipation for, like a
[00:11:10.07 - 00:11:13.14] wedding, for example, or a very special
[00:11:13.14 - 00:11:16.10] anniversary. And there's so much attached
[00:11:16.10 - 00:11:19.19] to the social occasions. But we have
[00:11:19.19 - 00:11:23.10] literally no celebration
[00:11:23.10 - 00:11:24.17] Around that first day at work.
[00:11:24.17 - 00:11:26.10] around the first day at work. Yeah.
[00:11:26.13 - 00:11:28.19] It's really true. And yeah, and I
[00:11:28.19 - 00:11:31.10] think that connection piece is so
[00:11:31.10 - 00:11:33.19] important. In fact, something I don't
[00:11:33.19 - 00:11:35.07] think I've even told Joey about this yet,
[00:11:35.07 - 00:11:37.13] but we just started this in October. It's
[00:11:37.13 - 00:11:39.16] been really well received. I was thinking
[00:11:39.16 - 00:11:43.02] about when my kids started off at in high
[00:11:43.02 - 00:11:45.11] school, they were put in these houses,
[00:11:45.19 - 00:11:47.22] sort of like Harry Potter, you know, the
[00:11:47.22 - 00:11:49.19] Harry Potter, they have those four
[00:11:49.19 - 00:11:51.20] different houses. And I thought that that
[00:11:51.20 - 00:11:53.13] would be a really fun thing to do at JAM.
[00:11:53.23 - 00:11:57.04] So we created four houses, we launched in
[00:11:57.04 - 00:11:59.13] at our annual retreat, our Jamboree, we
[00:11:59.13 - 00:12:01.23] call it, we launched this, and everyone
[00:12:01.23 - 00:12:05.04] was drafted into a house. And so now when
[00:12:05.04 - 00:12:06.16] someone when it's someone's first day,
[00:12:06.19 - 00:12:08.04] right after we've done their high five
[00:12:08.04 - 00:12:11.10] welcome, we also inform them of what house
[00:12:11.10 - 00:12:13.19] they've been drafted into. And they get
[00:12:13.19 - 00:12:16.10] their house t shirt. So we have four
[00:12:16.10 - 00:12:18.04] houses, and they're all different colors.
[00:12:18.10 - 00:12:21.04] And whatever house you're in, you kind of
[00:12:21.04 - 00:12:23.22] compete throughout the year, doing
[00:12:23.22 - 00:12:27.08] community give back initiatives, or just
[00:12:27.08 - 00:12:30.02] playful competitions at health or health
[00:12:30.02 - 00:12:32.01] challenges. And we constantly have fun
[00:12:32.01 - 00:12:33.13] things going on. And we sort of do it
[00:12:33.13 - 00:12:36.04] house against house. So it creates
[00:12:36.04 - 00:12:38.13] stronger connections within smaller groups
[00:12:38.13 - 00:12:40.19] right away. And it's every house is
[00:12:40.19 - 00:12:42.22] divvied up so that you're not just getting
[00:12:42.22 - 00:12:45.07] to know the people you work with in your
[00:12:45.07 - 00:12:47.02] department, you're actually getting to
[00:12:47.02 - 00:12:49.19] know people cross departmentally, because
[00:12:49.19 - 00:12:51.19] you got these house opportunities to have
[00:12:51.19 - 00:12:54.20] fun competitions with and stuff. So it's
[00:12:54.20 - 00:12:56.07] just another really, again, it's like
[00:12:56.07 - 00:12:58.14] we're still getting the work done. But
[00:12:58.14 - 00:13:00.13] we've got these frameworks in place that
[00:13:00.13 - 00:13:02.11] allow us to have a lot of fun with the way
[00:13:02.11 - 00:13:04.20] we get our work done, which then form
[00:13:04.20 - 00:13:07.01] stronger connections and make people want
[00:13:07.01 - 00:13:09.02] to stay working with JAM because it's a
[00:13:09.02 - 00:13:10.01] great place to work.
[00:13:10.01 - 00:13:11.04] Do you get things
[00:13:11.04 - 00:13:13.22] wrong as you experiment and try new fun
[00:13:13.22 - 00:13:16.02] things to play? Is there something that
[00:13:16.02 - 00:13:18.05] you tried and didn't go as you expected?
[00:13:18.22 - 00:13:20.13] Do we get things wrong? I mean,
[00:13:20.16 - 00:13:23.04] absolutely. I'm sure we have. I can't, I
[00:13:23.04 - 00:13:24.22] can't think off the top of my head of
[00:13:24.22 - 00:13:27.01] anything that's gone, you know,
[00:13:27.01 - 00:13:30.13] desperately sideways. But certainly
[00:13:30.13 - 00:13:33.04] something we also have a mayor and the
[00:13:33.04 - 00:13:36.04] mayor, every three, the mayor's in place
[00:13:36.04 - 00:13:37.17] for four months, and the mayor gets a
[00:13:37.17 - 00:13:39.19] little budget. And it's their job to plan
[00:13:39.19 - 00:13:42.10] social events during their term as mayor.
[00:13:43.13 - 00:13:46.08] And, you know, over time, we've sort of
[00:13:46.08 - 00:13:47.22] learned that sometimes the mayor was
[00:13:47.22 - 00:13:49.10] starting to take a little too much
[00:13:49.10 - 00:13:51.10] initiative to, we sort of had to say,
[00:13:51.13 - 00:13:53.02] okay, come on, like, that's a bit much.
[00:13:53.07 - 00:13:55.11] Let's slow that down, you know, or let's
[00:13:55.11 - 00:13:57.19] dial that back a bit. We sort of the
[00:13:57.19 - 00:13:59.23] mayor's starting to get their, their
[00:13:59.23 - 00:14:02.20] groove. I mean, it's been years that we've
[00:14:02.20 - 00:14:05.04] been doing running these mayor campaigns,
[00:14:05.05 - 00:14:07.07] and they're super silly. I don't know,
[00:14:07.08 - 00:14:10.05] over time, everything morphs and changes.
[00:14:10.05 - 00:14:12.07] That's natural. And we just try and keep
[00:14:12.07 - 00:14:13.19] finding better ways. I mean, find a better
[00:14:13.19 - 00:14:15.23] way is one of our core values. So we just
[00:14:15.23 - 00:14:17.19] keep trying to find better ways to improve upon
[00:14:17.19 - 00:14:19.14] the fun that we have and the work we have,
[00:14:19.14 - 00:14:22.16] you know, all aspects of the business.
[00:14:22.16 - 00:14:24.14] And is play for everyone? So
[00:14:24.14 - 00:14:26.16] when the client comes and says, maybe it's
[00:14:26.16 - 00:14:28.22] not for us, because we're this, you know,
[00:14:28.22 - 00:14:32.01] very serious institution. But is it for
[00:14:32.01 - 00:14:34.04] everyone? Is it for every walk of life or
[00:14:34.04 - 00:14:35.22] every walk of employee?
[00:14:36.05 - 00:14:39.01] So I believe it's
[00:14:39.01 - 00:14:42.14] for everybody. And would you let me ask
[00:14:42.14 - 00:14:46.05] you this? Would you rather work with an
[00:14:46.05 - 00:14:49.01] accounting firm, very important, serious
[00:14:49.01 - 00:14:51.17] business, right? Or lawyers, your legal
[00:14:51.17 - 00:14:53.13] firm? Would you rather work with a legal
[00:14:53.13 - 00:14:56.13] team, or an accounting team that don't
[00:14:56.13 - 00:14:58.16] ever have any fun, and they don't know how
[00:14:58.16 - 00:15:00.05] to laugh at themselves and have some
[00:15:00.05 - 00:15:02.07] laughs? Or would you rather work with
[00:15:02.07 - 00:15:04.17] accountants and lawyers that are humans,
[00:15:05.01 - 00:15:07.13] that can have have some laughs and have
[00:15:07.13 - 00:15:10.08] some fun, and make a little time to have
[00:15:10.08 - 00:15:12.19] fun for themselves? I know what I would
[00:15:12.19 - 00:15:15.11] rather. And so, you know, as an example,
[00:15:15.16 - 00:15:17.17] our accounting firm, Henderson Partners,
[00:15:17.22 - 00:15:20.11] we've worked with them for 28 years. They
[00:15:20.11 - 00:15:22.22] are also one of our clients. They do
[00:15:22.22 - 00:15:25.04] corporate team building events all the
[00:15:25.04 - 00:15:27.19] time. They highlight their core values.
[00:15:27.22 - 00:15:29.13] They have so much fun with the work
[00:15:29.13 - 00:15:31.05] they're doing. And they're an accounting
[00:15:31.05 - 00:15:32.22] firm. So I'm kind of like, you know,
[00:15:32.23 - 00:15:34.17] anyone who says, Oh, we run a really
[00:15:34.17 - 00:15:36.22] serious business, we can't be having fun.
[00:15:37.08 - 00:15:40.08] Well, good luck. Good luck retaining your
[00:15:40.08 - 00:15:43.04] people. Because just because you run a
[00:15:43.04 - 00:15:46.01] serious business doesn't mean your people
[00:15:46.01 - 00:15:48.19] can't be having fun with the work they're
[00:15:48.19 - 00:15:50.10] doing every day and working with the
[00:15:50.10 - 00:15:51.14] people they work with. It's about
[00:15:51.14 - 00:15:54.23] fostering friendships. The easiest way to
[00:15:54.23 - 00:15:57.10] foster friendships is by spending some
[00:15:57.10 - 00:16:00.01] time playing together. That's how you get
[00:16:00.01 - 00:16:03.10] to know people as real people. And that's
[00:16:03.10 - 00:16:05.07] when people have friends at work, studies
[00:16:05.07 - 00:16:07.08] have shown, they're far more likely to
[00:16:07.08 - 00:16:09.07] want to stay working at your organization.
[00:16:09.08 - 00:16:11.01] If they don't have a close friend at work,
[00:16:11.05 - 00:16:13.02] far likelier they're looking for another
[00:16:13.02 - 00:16:14.22] job somewhere. Like the studies prove
[00:16:14.22 - 00:16:17.17] that. So I'm like, yeah, carry on running
[00:16:17.17 - 00:16:20.01] your boring, serious business. But if
[00:16:20.01 - 00:16:21.11] you're not going to have a little fun with
[00:16:21.11 - 00:16:23.11] the boring, serious work you do, you're
[00:16:23.11 - 00:16:24.19] not going to have a lot of people wanting
[00:16:24.19 - 00:16:28.08] to stay there for very long. So I think
[00:16:28.08 - 00:16:31.10] play is for everybody. I would go toe to toe
[00:16:31.10 - 00:16:34.22] with anyone who says they have no time for fun.
[00:16:35.19 - 00:16:37.07] There's a couple more benefits
[00:16:37.07 - 00:16:40.19] that I'm realizing as you were talking. So
[00:16:40.19 - 00:16:45.20] one is, it might be Socrates or some other
[00:16:45.20 - 00:16:47.19] ancient Greek philosopher who said that
[00:16:47.19 - 00:16:52.07] you can learn more about someone through
[00:16:52.07 - 00:16:54.14] an hour of play than a year of
[00:16:54.14 - 00:16:57.05] conversation.
[00:16:57.05 - 00:16:58.11] A hundred percent. I use
[00:16:58.11 - 00:17:00.22] that in my keynote. And that's thousands
[00:17:00.22 - 00:17:04.22] of years old, that quote, right? So true.
[00:17:05.01 - 00:17:07.22] You learn so much from playing together.
[00:17:08.11 - 00:17:10.19] You get to know people as human beings.
[00:17:11.07 - 00:17:13.19] People then, once you feel comfortable
[00:17:13.19 - 00:17:16.19] with someone, you're far more likely to
[00:17:16.19 - 00:17:19.17] trust them. So you're willing to be
[00:17:19.17 - 00:17:22.22] vulnerable with them, which then means if
[00:17:22.22 - 00:17:25.13] I have a crazy idea in my head, but I
[00:17:25.13 - 00:17:28.16] don't entirely trust you, I might not be
[00:17:28.16 - 00:17:29.22] willing to put it out there because I'm
[00:17:29.22 - 00:17:31.11] afraid you're going to laugh at me or make
[00:17:31.11 - 00:17:33.10] fun of me. And so then I'm just like, I'm
[00:17:33.10 - 00:17:35.20] going to keep that idea to myself. What if
[00:17:35.20 - 00:17:38.04] I have an idea to come up with this
[00:17:38.04 - 00:17:41.07] smartphone that can do all these fancy
[00:17:41.07 - 00:17:43.16] things? And I kept that to myself, right?
[00:17:43.22 - 00:17:46.02] You know what I'm saying? What if I have
[00:17:46.02 - 00:17:49.02] this groundbreaking idea? If I'm not
[00:17:49.02 - 00:17:51.20] comfortable with the people I work with to
[00:17:51.20 - 00:17:54.07] put it out there, what could the business
[00:17:54.07 - 00:17:57.04] be missing out on? Whereas if you have
[00:17:57.04 - 00:18:01.05] this workplace that embodies friendship
[00:18:01.05 - 00:18:03.16] and trust and vulnerability and safety
[00:18:03.16 - 00:18:06.05] amongst people are going to be very
[00:18:06.05 - 00:18:09.10] willing to throw out crazy ideas. 99% of
[00:18:09.10 - 00:18:11.20] them might be dumb, but there might be one
[00:18:11.20 - 00:18:14.01] piece of gold there that could drastically
[00:18:14.01 - 00:18:16.04] change your business. So that's why
[00:18:16.04 - 00:18:17.19] fostering friendships. It's another reason
[00:18:17.19 - 00:18:19.20] why fostering friendships is incredibly
[00:18:19.20 - 00:18:22.10] powerful. Another reason we're big
[00:18:22.10 - 00:18:24.16] believers in team, teamwork, team. I
[00:18:24.16 - 00:18:26.01] always talk about my team. They're my
[00:18:26.01 - 00:18:29.08] team. We are not a family to be clear. I
[00:18:29.08 - 00:18:32.07] don't believe that family has a place and
[00:18:32.07 - 00:18:34.13] it's important and it's outside of work.
[00:18:35.04 - 00:18:37.19] Work is a team. It's like a sports team.
[00:18:37.22 - 00:18:41.11] You must perform to stay on a team. You
[00:18:41.11 - 00:18:44.22] don't get unconditional love on a team
[00:18:44.22 - 00:18:47.07] like you should in your family. Family is
[00:18:47.07 - 00:18:49.13] for unconditional love. Team, you've got
[00:18:49.13 - 00:18:52.10] to perform. So being part of this team,
[00:18:53.13 - 00:18:56.01] you can still have lots of friends on your
[00:18:56.01 - 00:18:58.07] team, right? You think about these most
[00:18:58.07 - 00:19:00.07] professional sports teams in the world. A
[00:19:00.07 - 00:19:01.19] lot of these people are friends with each
[00:19:01.19 - 00:19:03.16] other. These women playing soccer together
[00:19:03.16 - 00:19:05.16] and men playing football together. They're
[00:19:05.16 - 00:19:07.17] good friends with each other, but they
[00:19:07.17 - 00:19:09.01] still have to perform to stay on that
[00:19:09.01 - 00:19:11.07] team. So what happens when you've built
[00:19:11.07 - 00:19:13.02] this fostered friendships inside your
[00:19:13.02 - 00:19:16.14] workplace, amongst your team, people are
[00:19:16.14 - 00:19:18.19] looking out for that. It's a shared goal.
[00:19:18.22 - 00:19:20.22] We're all working together towards the
[00:19:20.22 - 00:19:23.10] vision of the company, which hopefully the
[00:19:23.10 - 00:19:25.01] leaders of the company have laid out
[00:19:25.01 - 00:19:27.07] clearly. Everyone knows what we're trying
[00:19:27.07 - 00:19:29.11] to accomplish. How are we going to do
[00:19:29.11 - 00:19:32.23] this? I'm comfortable sharing ideas. If I
[00:19:32.23 - 00:19:35.05] feel like I've got a good handle on my
[00:19:35.05 - 00:19:38.04] work today and I look over at my friend,
[00:19:38.22 - 00:19:41.10] Steve, and I go, Steve looks kind of
[00:19:41.10 - 00:19:44.04] stressed. He's overwhelmed today. I'm kind
[00:19:44.04 - 00:19:45.23] of done what I need to do right now. I
[00:19:45.23 - 00:19:48.13] should see if he's okay. Hey, Steve, do
[00:19:48.13 - 00:19:50.07] you need a hand with anything? Can I help
[00:19:50.07 - 00:19:53.11] you? Cause you seem underwater. If I don't
[00:19:53.11 - 00:19:55.22] care about Steve as a friend, if he's, if
[00:19:55.22 - 00:19:58.10] I'm not close to him, I mean, look over at
[00:19:58.10 - 00:19:59.23] Steve to go, God, he looks stressed. I'm
[00:19:59.23 - 00:20:02.11] out of here. That's the difference. When
[00:20:02.11 - 00:20:05.13] you foster friendships amongst your team,
[00:20:05.14 - 00:20:07.20] you're fostering a willingness to want to
[00:20:07.20 - 00:20:10.11] help each other out. So pick each other up
[00:20:10.11 - 00:20:13.01] when you're down and, and help make
[00:20:13.01 - 00:20:15.01] everybody shine together. If you don't
[00:20:15.01 - 00:20:17.04] have friends amongst your teammates, that
[00:20:17.04 - 00:20:19.10] doesn't happen. So there's a lot of
[00:20:19.10 - 00:20:21.13] powerful reasons why integrating
[00:20:21.13 - 00:20:23.22] playfulness in the workplace makes huge,
[00:20:23.22 - 00:20:26.05] huge impacts at the end of the line on the
[00:20:26.05 - 00:20:27.13] business, you know.
[00:20:27.14 - 00:20:28.13] And to build on what
[00:20:28.13 - 00:20:31.13] you said earlier, vulnerability. So I'm a
[00:20:31.13 - 00:20:34.04] big believer. I consider it de facto
[00:20:34.04 - 00:20:37.06] actually trust is based on vulnerability.
[00:20:37.16 - 00:20:40.13] This is the notion and framework pioneered
[00:20:40.13 - 00:20:43.01] among others by Patrick Lencioni in his
[00:20:43.01 - 00:20:49.20] five dysfunctions of a team. And he
[00:20:49.20 - 00:20:52.04] explains it very nicely. And then also the
[00:20:52.04 - 00:20:54.10] other one, which I look up to is Brené
[00:20:54.10 - 00:20:56.10] Brown, who talks about that without
[00:20:56.10 - 00:20:58.22] vulnerability, you carry this 10 ton
[00:20:58.22 - 00:21:01.04] shield, which you pretend being someone
[00:21:01.04 - 00:21:04.02] else. And then you are because you want to
[00:21:04.02 - 00:21:06.05] protect yourself, but that essentially
[00:21:06.05 - 00:21:09.01] blocks you both from being in touch with
[00:21:09.01 - 00:21:11.08] your true self, but also from meaningful
[00:21:11.08 - 00:21:14.13] interactions with your colleagues. So
[00:21:14.13 - 00:21:19.10] whichever way you look at it, we know that
[00:21:19.10 - 00:21:22.02] play creates vulnerability naturally and
[00:21:22.02 - 00:21:25.11] creates trust therefore. And I've never
[00:21:25.11 - 00:21:30.04] ever heard of play as a technique for
[00:21:30.04 - 00:21:33.22] facilitating vulnerability and people do
[00:21:33.22 - 00:21:38.16] workshops and do kind of, um, you know,
[00:21:39.01 - 00:21:40.22] StrengthsFinders and various different
[00:21:40.22 - 00:21:43.17] things for creating trust, but play is such a
[00:21:43.17 - 00:21:45.07] natural way of creating vulnerability.
[00:21:45.07 - 00:21:47.04] It's so natural. Yeah. Think about like
[00:21:47.04 - 00:21:49.16] improv, you know, you do an improv class,
[00:21:49.16 - 00:21:51.01] you're playing, right? You're acting,
[00:21:51.05 - 00:21:53.05] you're making, and you have to be so
[00:21:53.05 - 00:21:57.02] vulnerable to perform in front of people.
[00:21:57.13 - 00:22:00.10] Right. So, um, like improv is a perfect
[00:22:00.10 - 00:22:03.01] example of, of playing and being
[00:22:03.01 - 00:22:05.13] vulnerable and trusting your teammates to
[00:22:05.13 - 00:22:07.13] be okay with you being vulnerable that
[00:22:07.13 - 00:22:10.10] way. And, and then at the end of a improv
[00:22:10.10 - 00:22:11.22] session, you know, you're having some
[00:22:11.22 - 00:22:14.08] laughs together and you're like, that was
[00:22:14.08 - 00:22:15.17] hilarious when, and all of a sudden now
[00:22:15.17 - 00:22:17.20] you've, you've fostered this friendship
[00:22:17.20 - 00:22:19.04] with someone that you may not have
[00:22:19.04 - 00:22:21.04] otherwise. And so then you bring that back
[00:22:21.04 - 00:22:24.22] into the office and what a powerful, you
[00:22:24.22 - 00:22:26.08] know, what a powerful connection you've
[00:22:26.08 - 00:22:29.22] just created. Um, I know if you ask any of
[00:22:29.22 - 00:22:32.01] my employees what their favorite thing
[00:22:32.01 - 00:22:33.19] about working at JAM is, they will a
[00:22:33.19 - 00:22:35.20] hundred percent, like I'd, I'd be willing
[00:22:35.20 - 00:22:38.10] to bet it's over 90%. The answer would say
[00:22:39.01 - 00:22:41.22] the people because they've fostered
[00:22:41.22 - 00:22:43.16] friendships with these people because
[00:22:43.16 - 00:22:46.01] we've created opportunities for them to
[00:22:46.01 - 00:22:49.13] foster friendships. Right. So it's a, it's
[00:22:49.13 - 00:22:51.10] a really powerful thing. And the people
[00:22:51.10 - 00:22:55.19] who join, are they naturally open to play
[00:22:55.19 - 00:23:01.00] or do they drop their shield when they join?
[00:23:01.23 - 00:23:05.16] Οur teammates? Um, well, that's a
[00:23:05.16 - 00:23:09.04] good question. I mean, we, when, when
[00:23:09.04 - 00:23:13.04] we're, when we hire new employees, we're
[00:23:13.04 - 00:23:15.20] always, there's some playful aspects to
[00:23:15.20 - 00:23:17.10] the interview process. Actually, our
[00:23:17.10 - 00:23:19.16] interview, the first interview anyone goes
[00:23:19.16 - 00:23:22.05] through is a group interview. So it's not
[00:23:22.05 - 00:23:24.13] a one-on-one interview. You're sitting in
[00:23:24.13 - 00:23:26.01] a room with eight or 10 people. So we're
[00:23:26.01 - 00:23:27.13] immediately watching how are people
[00:23:27.13 - 00:23:30.01] interacting with each other and are they
[00:23:30.01 - 00:23:31.11] willing to have some fun? And we taught,
[00:23:31.11 - 00:23:33.10] ask some silly questions right off the top
[00:23:33.10 - 00:23:35.13] to light, just loosen the mood a little
[00:23:35.13 - 00:23:38.13] bit. And you sort of see, and now we are
[00:23:38.13 - 00:23:40.23] never, ever looking for, we don't really
[00:23:40.23 - 00:23:43.20] call it, we don't look for cultural fit.
[00:23:43.20 - 00:23:47.01] We look for culture compliments. So we
[00:23:47.01 - 00:23:48.07] want, we don't, we're not looking for
[00:23:48.07 - 00:23:50.16] everyone to fit the exact same mold, but
[00:23:50.16 - 00:23:52.14] we want people who will compliment our
[00:23:52.14 - 00:23:55.19] culture and enjoy, you know, if someone
[00:23:55.19 - 00:23:58.02] doesn't enjoy play, they're probably not
[00:23:58.02 - 00:23:59.16] going to enjoy working at JAM. It's
[00:23:59.16 - 00:24:01.05] probably not the right thing. Like if
[00:24:01.05 - 00:24:03.19] they're just can't laugh or can't have
[00:24:03.19 - 00:24:05.14] some fun, it may not be the right place
[00:24:05.14 - 00:24:07.08] for them. And that's okay. Like JAM's not
[00:24:07.08 - 00:24:11.08] for everybody. But most people who join, I
[00:24:11.08 - 00:24:15.04] think immediately realize like with that
[00:24:15.04 - 00:24:17.08] onboarding, they're like, oh, this is a
[00:24:17.08 - 00:24:19.10] group that likes to have fun. And yeah, we
[00:24:19.10 - 00:24:21.08] do. We like to work hard and we like to
[00:24:21.08 - 00:24:24.13] have fun. And, and so I think it just
[00:24:24.13 - 00:24:27.13] helps finding ways to connect people, to
[00:24:27.13 - 00:24:30.01] get to know each other personally, a
[00:24:30.01 - 00:24:32.11] little like as fostering those friendship
[00:24:32.11 - 00:24:35.19] opportunities does allow for that shield,
[00:24:35.19 - 00:24:38.13] whether they've had it or not, it
[00:24:38.13 - 00:24:40.17] definitely allows for them to freedom of
[00:24:40.17 - 00:24:42.23] it because they realize it's a safe place
[00:24:42.23 - 00:24:44.14] to be who they are.
[00:24:44.14 - 00:24:45.10] Do you ever feel that
[00:24:45.10 - 00:24:47.17] performance antagonizes play?
[00:24:49.22 - 00:24:51.13] I'm not sure I understand the question.
[00:24:51.13 - 00:24:53.22] Performance antagonizes...
[00:24:53.22 - 00:24:56.01] Yeah. If performance go is at
[00:24:56.01 - 00:24:57.23] the detriment of play or plays at the
[00:24:57.23 - 00:25:01.04] detriment of performance, if one is in
[00:25:01.04 - 00:25:02.22] conflict with the other. Yeah. Have you
[00:25:02.22 - 00:25:04.14] ever seen that?
[00:25:05.07 - 00:25:06.01] I mean, there have
[00:25:06.01 - 00:25:07.17] definitely been times, I'm not going to
[00:25:07.17 - 00:25:10.10] lie. There have been times where, you
[00:25:10.10 - 00:25:12.02] know, because we do press play to start
[00:25:12.02 - 00:25:13.19] our meetings when we have four or more
[00:25:13.19 - 00:25:15.10] people in a meeting, there have been some
[00:25:15.10 - 00:25:17.23] times where I'm like, we're short on time
[00:25:17.23 - 00:25:19.13] today. Like we got to get this done. And
[00:25:19.13 - 00:25:22.11] we, you know, very occasionally we skip
[00:25:22.11 - 00:25:24.14] it, but it's not actually great to skip
[00:25:24.14 - 00:25:26.04] it. Like it doesn't feel good to skip it.
[00:25:26.04 - 00:25:29.14] During the pandemic. This is actually one
[00:25:29.14 - 00:25:31.02] of the reasons I wanted to write the book
[00:25:31.02 - 00:25:35.10] as well. During the pandemic, when we were
[00:25:35.10 - 00:25:38.05] lost 18 months, as I told you of, of
[00:25:38.05 - 00:25:40.10] revenue very early in the pandemic, I
[00:25:40.10 - 00:25:41.19] didn't know what was going on. I didn't
[00:25:41.19 - 00:25:43.22] know what was going to happen. We, we, we
[00:25:43.22 - 00:25:46.05] were very scared. It was a very scary
[00:25:46.05 - 00:25:48.13] time. I was worried that this business I'd
[00:25:48.13 - 00:25:50.19] built for 25 years might go bankrupt. I
[00:25:50.19 - 00:25:52.02] was scared that that could potentially
[00:25:52.02 - 00:25:54.20] happen. So we were cutting costs, left,
[00:25:54.20 - 00:25:57.05] right, and center. We stopped all our
[00:25:57.05 - 00:25:58.14] cultural initiatives. In fact, the
[00:25:58.14 - 00:26:00.22] veterans jersey I talked about, we had
[00:26:00.22 - 00:26:02.16] some people who should have been getting
[00:26:02.16 - 00:26:04.11] their veterans jersey within that first
[00:26:04.11 - 00:26:05.19] six months of the pandemic. And I was
[00:26:05.19 - 00:26:07.16] like, nope, we're not spending money on
[00:26:07.16 - 00:26:09.07] veterans jerseys. We're not spending money
[00:26:09.07 - 00:26:12.07] on, like we cut all additional culture
[00:26:12.07 - 00:26:14.10] expenses. We were, you know, we were at
[00:26:14.10 - 00:26:17.04] war effectively. I was like this general
[00:26:17.04 - 00:26:19.02] that was trying to keep the ship afloat.
[00:26:19.10 - 00:26:21.22] And it was really stressful and really
[00:26:21.22 - 00:26:24.05] hard. And we cut kind of all the fun got
[00:26:24.05 - 00:26:26.19] lost. And about six months into the
[00:26:26.19 - 00:26:29.07] pandemic, even though we still had, you
[00:26:29.07 - 00:26:31.10] know, lost a lot of revenue and business
[00:26:31.10 - 00:26:34.19] was still really brutal. I realized our
[00:26:34.19 - 00:26:38.05] culture was taking a huge hit. It wasn't
[00:26:38.05 - 00:26:40.22] fun to work at JAM anymore. People were
[00:26:40.22 - 00:26:44.04] down and I was thinking, why am I cutting
[00:26:44.04 - 00:26:48.13] these very small costs and time? We do a
[00:26:48.13 - 00:26:50.16] core value award once a month. We'd
[00:26:50.16 - 00:26:52.16] stopped with the core value awards because
[00:26:52.16 - 00:26:55.01] we just were like, so trying to serve. We
[00:26:55.01 - 00:26:58.08] were in survival mode. And so I realized
[00:26:58.08 - 00:27:02.08] we've, we've done something wrong. We've
[00:27:02.08 - 00:27:05.13] let play go because we thought if we put
[00:27:05.13 - 00:27:07.07] it aside, we'll be able to focus and get
[00:27:07.07 - 00:27:10.01] more performance. It wasn't true. Quite
[00:27:10.01 - 00:27:12.04] the opposite. We started to lose people
[00:27:12.04 - 00:27:13.23] during the pandemic. And we were like, Oh
[00:27:13.23 - 00:27:17.01] my, like it was, it was a horrible time.
[00:27:17.05 - 00:27:19.10] So I was like, we got to get this back.
[00:27:19.10 - 00:27:21.22] We've got to introduce reintroduce our
[00:27:21.22 - 00:27:23.17] culture initiatives. We brought back our
[00:27:23.17 - 00:27:25.07] mayor. We brought back our veterans
[00:27:25.07 - 00:27:27.10] jerseys. We brought back our core value
[00:27:27.10 - 00:27:29.07] awards. You know, these aren't expensive
[00:27:29.07 - 00:27:32.05] things to do, but it brought back, it
[00:27:32.05 - 00:27:34.07] started to rebuild our culture and
[00:27:34.07 - 00:27:36.16] reinvigorate. And now in hindsight, I
[00:27:36.16 - 00:27:39.01] realized like, I will never get rid of
[00:27:39.01 - 00:27:41.07] those things more important than ever
[00:27:41.07 - 00:27:42.23] actually, when things are stressful and
[00:27:42.23 - 00:27:45.14] people are down and it's a scary time for
[00:27:45.14 - 00:27:47.07] a business, it's actually more important
[00:27:47.07 - 00:27:49.16] than ever to be celebrating your core
[00:27:49.16 - 00:27:52.14] values and to be having some laughs and to
[00:27:52.14 - 00:27:54.22] be celebrating great work being done. And
[00:27:54.22 - 00:27:58.07] instead of cutting all of those things. So
[00:27:58.07 - 00:28:02.23] I lived it. I lived it. And we actually in
[00:28:02.23 - 00:28:04.23] my, in my book, I talk about two different
[00:28:04.23 - 00:28:07.08] employees who left during the pandemic
[00:28:07.08 - 00:28:09.22] because they, it'd be, you know, they
[00:28:09.22 - 00:28:11.19] wanted a new career opportunity. They
[00:28:11.19 - 00:28:14.04] have, they came back because of our
[00:28:14.04 - 00:28:15.07] culture. In fact, there's actually, we've
[00:28:15.07 - 00:28:16.22] had three different teammates in the last
[00:28:16.22 - 00:28:19.16] four years that left for new career
[00:28:19.16 - 00:28:22.05] opportunities and to earn more money. And
[00:28:22.05 - 00:28:24.07] they came back to JAM for culture because
[00:28:24.07 - 00:28:25.13] they were like, I've worked at this other
[00:28:25.13 - 00:28:28.05] place. I was making more money, but I was
[00:28:28.05 - 00:28:29.22] miserable because nobody cared about me as
[00:28:29.22 - 00:28:32.11] a friend. And they've come back because we
[00:28:32.11 - 00:28:34.13] have a, we're a fun place to work. We care
[00:28:34.13 - 00:28:38.11] about our people, as people, as friends.
[00:28:38.11 - 00:28:39.17] Yeah. I imagine it must be really
[00:28:39.17 - 00:28:43.16] hard to land on a job that doesn't care
[00:28:43.16 - 00:28:45.19] about culture if you've been working for
[00:28:45.19 - 00:28:48.10] JAM because you're all about fun and
[00:28:48.10 - 00:28:49.10] culture. Right?
[00:28:49.23 - 00:28:51.11] And we actually, I really
[00:28:51.11 - 00:28:53.04] try and impress upon our people and
[00:28:53.04 - 00:28:55.19] culture team when we are hiring, if it's
[00:28:55.19 - 00:28:57.13] possible, and it's not always possible,
[00:28:57.14 - 00:29:00.01] but if it's possible, try and hire,
[00:29:00.07 - 00:29:02.23] recruit and hire people, not fresh out of
[00:29:02.23 - 00:29:05.01] college or university, try and get people
[00:29:05.01 - 00:29:07.07] who are two or three, two or three years
[00:29:07.07 - 00:29:09.13] into their workplace experience, because
[00:29:09.13 - 00:29:11.23] then they have had experience and have
[00:29:11.23 - 00:29:14.04] something to compare to. If they start
[00:29:14.04 - 00:29:16.10] their career journeys at JAM, they'll
[00:29:16.10 - 00:29:17.22] never have anything else to compare to.
[00:29:17.23 - 00:29:19.17] And they might not realize how good it is.
[00:29:20.10 - 00:29:22.19] So that's why we, and I have a client that
[00:29:22.19 - 00:29:24.17] I write about in my book, Barry Glassman
[00:29:24.17 - 00:29:27.02] at Glassman Wealth in Washington, DC. He
[00:29:27.02 - 00:29:28.19] does the exact same thing. They are big
[00:29:28.19 - 00:29:32.07] believers in recruiting from people after
[00:29:32.07 - 00:29:34.08] they've had a few years of work, not fresh
[00:29:34.08 - 00:29:36.19] out of college. And now with certain jobs,
[00:29:36.19 - 00:29:38.10] you need someone fresh out of school,
[00:29:38.10 - 00:29:40.14] which is fine or internships or whatever,
[00:29:40.14 - 00:29:43.07] but it's always a great, I think it's a
[00:29:43.07 - 00:29:45.16] great strategy to try and make sure people
[00:29:45.16 - 00:29:48.07] know how good they've got it by having had
[00:29:48.07 - 00:29:49.19] some experience elsewhere.
[00:29:49.22 - 00:29:50.19] And you talked
[00:29:50.19 - 00:29:52.13] about the core value exercise. I'm
[00:29:52.13 - 00:29:54.18] curious. So tell me more.
[00:29:56.00 - 00:29:57.04] So the, we have
[00:29:57.04 - 00:29:59.13] a core value, we do core value awards. So
[00:29:59.13 - 00:30:01.17] we have, we've established our core values
[00:30:01.17 - 00:30:05.13] probably 12, 13 years ago. And our six
[00:30:05.13 - 00:30:07.17] core values are chase the vision, deliver
[00:30:07.17 - 00:30:09.14] what you promise, take pride in what you
[00:30:09.14 - 00:30:12.10] do, get shit done, treat everyone like
[00:30:12.10 - 00:30:15.07] your best friend and find a better way.
[00:30:15.07 - 00:30:17.06] Those are our six core values that we live and breathe.
[00:30:17.22 - 00:30:20.11] We hire people around, we fire people around.
[00:30:20.11 - 00:30:24.06] We look to all our decisions are made based on using those values.
[00:30:24.06 - 00:30:26.23] So once a month we, I got a trophy
[00:30:26.23 - 00:30:29.11] made years and years ago. It's a giant
[00:30:29.11 - 00:30:32.10] apple core. It's a half eaten apple core
[00:30:32.10 - 00:30:35.02] made out like at about 18 inches tall, a
[00:30:35.02 - 00:30:36.20] bronze apple core. And on the base of the
[00:30:36.20 - 00:30:38.16] trophy are the six, six core values. And
[00:30:38.16 - 00:30:42.11] once a month we send out a survey and ask
[00:30:42.11 - 00:30:45.05] people to nominate somebody for the core
[00:30:45.05 - 00:30:46.20] value award. It's totally optional. They
[00:30:46.20 - 00:30:48.11] don't have to, but almost everyone
[00:30:48.11 - 00:30:50.13] nominates somebody every month and they
[00:30:50.13 - 00:30:52.08] just write a quick, like I'm nominating
[00:30:52.08 - 00:30:54.07] them for this value and for this reason.
[00:30:54.07 - 00:30:56.16] And they give like a sentence or two. And
[00:30:56.16 - 00:30:58.22] then our people in culture team create a
[00:30:58.22 - 00:31:01.19] quick PowerPoint presentation. And at our
[00:31:01.19 - 00:31:04.05] daily huddle at the end of the month at
[00:31:04.05 - 00:31:07.04] the huddle, I wrap up the last, last day
[00:31:07.04 - 00:31:09.04] of the month's huddle with our core value
[00:31:09.04 - 00:31:11.05] award presentation. And I go through and I
[00:31:11.05 - 00:31:13.01] read out all the, I think it's about 10
[00:31:13.01 - 00:31:15.01] minutes. I read out all the nominations.
[00:31:15.04 - 00:31:18.01] So everyone has a chance to hear if
[00:31:18.01 - 00:31:19.10] someone has shouted them out for
[00:31:19.10 - 00:31:21.11] something, if they feel good hearing their
[00:31:21.11 - 00:31:25.07] name or someone who shouts out some, some,
[00:31:25.07 - 00:31:27.02] it makes them feel good that they're
[00:31:27.02 - 00:31:29.13] giving gratitude, right? So everybody
[00:31:29.13 - 00:31:32.10] hears all the nominations, sees their face
[00:31:32.10 - 00:31:34.08] on the screen and whoever got the most
[00:31:34.08 - 00:31:36.22] nominations wins the core value award for
[00:31:36.22 - 00:31:38.05] the month and they get the trophy and it
[00:31:38.05 - 00:31:40.02] sits on their desk. And any of our remote
[00:31:40.02 - 00:31:41.19] employees, they get a special zoom
[00:31:41.19 - 00:31:43.16] backdrop that is the core value backdrop
[00:31:43.16 - 00:31:46.07] winner for the month. And so at our daily
[00:31:46.07 - 00:31:48.07] huddle, you can see they've got their core
[00:31:48.07 - 00:31:50.19] value award winner zoom backdrop. Again,
[00:31:50.22 - 00:31:53.08] it's a really little thing. It doesn't
[00:31:53.08 - 00:31:55.19] cost us any money. It takes about 10
[00:31:55.19 - 00:31:59.01] minutes a month. It's something that it's
[00:31:59.01 - 00:32:02.20] playful, but it's recognizing great work.
[00:32:02.23 - 00:32:05.10] It's still, it's finding ways to integrate
[00:32:05.10 - 00:32:07.11] play into the way we're delivering our
[00:32:07.11 - 00:32:10.08] work, right? And it's, that's the part,
[00:32:10.08 - 00:32:12.13] it's not people who think that my book is
[00:32:12.13 - 00:32:14.19] about stop what you're doing and go play
[00:32:14.19 - 00:32:17.13] soccer. No, like definitely do that. Like
[00:32:17.13 - 00:32:19.04] have a soccer team for your company and
[00:32:19.04 - 00:32:20.20] have, you know, do some team building
[00:32:20.20 - 00:32:22.10] events, but it's about how you run your
[00:32:22.10 - 00:32:24.13] day-to-day. It's about making some playfulness
[00:32:24.13 - 00:32:27.13] with the work you're doing all the time.
[00:32:28.01 - 00:32:29.16] So Kristi, there's lots more I
[00:32:29.16 - 00:32:31.13] want to ask you, but I know you're limited
[00:32:31.13 - 00:32:35.14] for time. So I'll go straight to the
[00:32:35.14 - 00:32:37.23] question I'd like to end the podcast with,
[00:32:37.23 - 00:32:41.07] which is there's lots of people who are
[00:32:41.07 - 00:32:43.23] not intentional about their culture.
[00:32:44.07 - 00:32:45.20] There's leaders who are
[00:32:45.20 - 00:32:48.16] practicing or without knowing practicing
[00:32:48.16 - 00:32:51.16] culture by default, what would you whisper
[00:32:51.16 - 00:32:54.02] to the ear of such a leader? Now that
[00:32:54.02 - 00:32:56.13] you've been on the other end of a fully
[00:32:56.13 - 00:32:58.22] intentional culture.
[00:32:59.14 - 00:33:01.11] I would whisper the
[00:33:01.11 - 00:33:04.07] lesson my dad taught me, which I learned,
[00:33:04.07 - 00:33:06.22] I learned a very hard lesson in my early
[00:33:06.22 - 00:33:08.11] twenties when I was running my painting
[00:33:08.11 - 00:33:10.05] business. I had a lot of my painters quit
[00:33:10.17 - 00:33:13.01] partway through the summer and I didn't
[00:33:13.01 - 00:33:14.14] understand why they were quitting on me.
[00:33:14.19 - 00:33:16.22] And I realized after talking to my dad,
[00:33:16.22 - 00:33:18.19] who was a businessman and ran his own
[00:33:18.19 - 00:33:20.20] business, it was because of how I was
[00:33:20.20 - 00:33:24.08] treating them as people. I was dictating.
[00:33:24.08 - 00:33:27.22] I wasn't inspiring them. I wasn't sharing
[00:33:27.22 - 00:33:30.01] my vision with them or my goals. I wasn't
[00:33:30.01 - 00:33:31.16] treating them like teammates. I was being
[00:33:31.16 - 00:33:33.22] a dictator. And my dad said to me,
[00:33:33.22 - 00:33:38.20] Kristi, people are priority. If you don't
[00:33:38.20 - 00:33:41.17] have a great team of people, you've got
[00:33:41.17 - 00:33:44.13] nothing. So make people your priority. And
[00:33:44.13 - 00:33:46.16] so I would whisper in the ear to anyone,
[00:33:46.16 - 00:33:50.01] people are priority and play is powerful.
[00:33:52.10 - 00:33:57.01] Make people priority by having some fun
[00:33:57.01 - 00:33:59.08] with some play and because it's powerful,
[00:33:59.08 - 00:34:02.22] you'll get back a lot of value from doing so.
[00:34:02.22 - 00:34:05.22] Any book or any resource or any movie
[00:34:05.22 - 00:34:07.14] or anything you'd like to leave us, any
[00:34:07.14 - 00:34:09.04] parting thoughts you'd like to leave us with?
[00:34:10.05 - 00:34:12.08] Oh gosh, I think just you're never
[00:34:12.08 - 00:34:15.08] too old. You're never too old to play.
[00:34:15.16 - 00:34:19.19] It's another quote that I love. Oh my
[00:34:19.19 - 00:34:21.13] gosh, I say it all the time and I'm just
[00:34:21.13 - 00:34:26.10] blanking on the name right now. We don't
[00:34:26.10 - 00:34:29.07] grow old because we stop playing. We don't
[00:34:29.07 - 00:34:31.05] stop playing because we grow old. We grow
[00:34:31.05 - 00:34:34.04] old because we stop playing. So keep
[00:34:34.04 - 00:34:35.20] playing. I mean, I'm just a big believer
[00:34:35.20 - 00:34:38.04] in make time for play every day in your
[00:34:38.04 - 00:34:39.16] personal lives and in your work lives
[00:34:39.16 - 00:34:43.10] because there's just no reason not to. By
[00:34:43.10 - 00:34:45.22] the way, Andreas, I did have a link for you
[00:34:45.22 - 00:34:47.23] for your listeners if they'd like to get a
[00:34:47.23 - 00:34:50.19] copy of my 10-page playbook PDF. It's 10
[00:34:50.19 - 00:34:52.14] Ways to Integrate Play into the Day-to
[00:34:52.14 - 00:34:55.22] -Day. It's kristiherold.com. So K-R-I-S-T
[00:34:55.22 - 00:35:00.16] -I-H-E-R-O-L-D.com forward slash rethink
[00:35:00.16 - 00:35:05.17] 25. And inside that there's a 25% savings
[00:35:05.17 - 00:35:07.14] for anyone who might like to try a JAM
[00:35:07.14 - 00:35:09.19] virtual event for their company, a team
[00:35:09.19 - 00:35:11.20] building event. We'd love to offer that to them.
[00:35:11.20 - 00:35:13.23] Super. And we'll put it in the show notes.
[00:35:14.06 - 00:35:16.13] And where can people learn more
[00:35:16.13 - 00:35:17.19] about you, Kristi?
[00:35:18.10 - 00:35:19.16] On LinkedIn. I'm pretty active
[00:35:19.16 - 00:35:22.07] on LinkedIn and on my personal website,
[00:35:22.07 - 00:35:24.10] kristiherold.com or check out JAM.
[00:35:24.10 - 00:35:29.22] It's jamgroup.com. J-A-M-G-R-O-U-P .com.
[00:35:29.22 - 00:35:31.22] Kristi, thank you so much for
[00:35:31.22 - 00:35:35.13] inspiring us to play. I'm glad we got to
[00:35:35.13 - 00:35:39.04] meet and thank you to everyone who has
[00:35:39.04 - 00:35:40.16] been listening. Thank you for giving us
[00:35:40.16 - 00:35:43.19] your undivided attention. If you like the
[00:35:43.19 - 00:35:46.22] show, please do support us. And you can do
[00:35:46.22 - 00:35:49.01] that by leaving a comment so that more
[00:35:49.01 - 00:35:52.14] listeners and readers can get to it. You
[00:35:52.14 - 00:35:54.10] can also email me at andreas{
[00:35:54.10 - 00:35:56.14] rethinkculture.co with your thoughts or
[00:35:56.14 - 00:35:58.04] any guests you'd like to recommend for the
[00:35:58.04 - 00:36:00.20] show. And if you're just listening, but
[00:36:00.20 - 00:36:02.22] not watching us, you can also watch us at
[00:36:02.22 - 00:36:06.10] youtube.com/{rethinkculture
[00:36:06.10 - 00:36:09.23] and check out our episodes there or at
[00:36:09.23 - 00:36:13.22] rethinkculture.co/podcast. And as I
[00:36:13.22 - 00:36:16.10] love to say, keep on creating a happier
[00:36:16.10 - 00:36:19.11] workplace and more playful, I may add, for
[00:36:19.11 - 00:36:21.06] you and those around you.