A Journey of Faith: Monsignor John Wall's Life Story

Join us in this captivating episode of Hot Takes with Jim Baker & Bill LuMaye, where we feature Monsignor John Wall, a retired priest with over 90 years of life experience. Monsignor Wall shares his profound journey of faith, from his early years in a Catholic school during the polio epidemic to his time studying at Georgetown and Rome. Along the way, he reflects on his encounters with notable figures like John the 23rd, his deep commitment to the priesthood, and the wisdom he's gained through a life dedicated to serving others. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that weaves through historical moments, personal anecdotes, and timeless lessons on love, leadership, and spirituality.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:46 Monsignor John Wall's Background
01:23 Tea Time and Light Banter
02:23 Monsignor's Retirement and Current Activities
04:23 Early Life and Education
06:19 The Calling to Priesthood
18:05 College Years and Spiritual Struggles
29:09 Journey to Rome
31:29 The Ups and Downs of Life
32:07 Faith and Doubt
32:58 The Importance of Freedom and Love
33:40 Challenges and Strength in Faith
36:45 A Life of Service and Community
44:09 Memorable Encounters and Lessons
50:11 Reflections on Progress and Change
57:42 Parting Wisdom and Final Thoughts

Creators and Guests

Host

Bill LuMaye

Talk Host WPTF and Voice Over Talent

Host

Jim Baker

Author of "The Adventure Begins When The Plan Falls Apart" Converting a Crisis into Company Success, Jim is a husband and father of 4, Baker has spent the last 30 years in the business world as an entrepreneur, investor, and advisor. He had a successful exit in 2014 after owning and managing a CRO and functional services company, Ockham, specializing in Oncology. During that time prior to exit, Baker grew ASG and then Ockham both organically and through M&A. Over time Baker has experience in acquiring and selling companies, working with investment bankers, private equity, and mezzanine debt funding. In addition, has vast experience in business branding and managing and leading people. After the sale to Chiltern International, Baker started Sumus Development Group, an advisory business focused on operational excellence, exit strategy and marketing. In addition, Baker is an active investor in the business community.

Guest

Msgr. John Wall

Born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and raised in Greensboro, North Carolina. He attended college at Georgetown in Washington, DC and the North American College in Rome, Italy. Ordained December 18, 1960 in Rome he served as a priest for the past 60 years here in the Diocese Of Raleigh.

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22 - 50 Cups - Monsignor
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Default_2025-07-16_1: Hello everyone and welcome to another Hot Takes. I'm Bill Lamay and it's my pleasure to welcome the owner of 50 Cups Tea Company and a brilliant man 'cause he has the hot text. Jim Bakker iss with us and we have a very special guest as well, Jim.

Continuing with our, our wisdom series. We have Monsignor John Wall today with us. Um, I've known him for almost 30 years now. Yeah. Um, I'm not gonna tell you his background, um, 'cause we'll do that as we get through this, but you're a fascinating, phenomenal human [00:01:00] being and, um, every time I'm around you, I feel inspired.

I feel more spiritual. Um, and I know that you have, um, lots to offer our audience today, so I'm grateful that you're here today. So thank you. Who's the, the wise guest? You said something about wisdom. Yeah, it's not Bill and I, so hopefully it's you. That's true. So as always, I'm looking for him. I'm looking for him around here.

As always. I have a little tea here today. I can't waitt. Wait, I did sweeten it up a little bit today since it is hot. That's good. Um, I have a little de-stress tea. Um, so it's all natural and good. And hopefully I can pour correctly. Oh, mm-hmm. That great. But so be it. Look at that. But during the broadcast, if anybody wants to sip, feel free to do so.

Take a sip. I might take one right to begin with. Lemme just get that outta your way here. There you go. First to your hel. You too, sir.

And be honest. I know you will. He's a mountain senior. He's not gonna lie about the tea. How [00:02:00] do you taste? How does it taste to you? Good. Yeah, it is good, isn't it? You can spike it with a little scotch every now and then too. It taste really good. Yeah. So how would one get a wonderful tea like this, Joe?

Yeah, you can just go online and order www 50 cups tea.com at your pleasure. Oh, that's great. So Monsignor? Yes. Um, thank you for being here today. Thank, I'm looking forward to the being with you guys. Now, you did retire from the priesthood? Somewhat officially, but although not really because I I know you're super busy, right?

Um, I think it was what, 15 years ago that you Right. I retired 15 years ago and then I, for two years, then I went back to work rehire man. I called instead of retirement. I, um, went back as a chaplain over at um, UNC at the university There. I thought that would be for about a year and it ended up seven years. So, so I enjoyed that and being with the kids [00:03:00] again and, and then came back and retired right out here off of high House on, um, right near St. Michael's, the church that I helped build. Mm-hmm. And what's your typical schedule look like on a weekly basis now?

Oh I do a lot of hospital visits and people that are you know, coming into the church, I talk to them, um, and visit with them. But I do am scheduled for a number of events at St. Michael's and other churches in the area where they might need coverage on a certain day. And for masses daily and for on Sunday and for funerals and weddings.

This past weekend I was called to perform a wedding at the cathedral. And I had never met the couple because the priest that was going to do the wedding, and he called me on Friday right before the rehearsal he'd come down with COVID I, [00:04:00] and he was coughing like crazy. So I, so he said, would you please go over and if you, if you're free, go over and do that wedding?

And so I was happy to meet the couple and, and, um, went to the rehearsal dinner. I like rehearsal dinners sometimes more and than weddings, they're a lot more fun, that's for sure. So you have something in common with Bill? You're both from Wisconsin? Oh yeah. Originally. And I'm gonna let Bill kind of roll with the the background.

Yeah. Well you told me Milwaukee. Milwaukee grew. I was born in Milwaukee and I was in, born in Green Bay. I gotta ask the obvious, are you a Packer fan? Did you grow up a Packer fan? No, I didn't grow up there. It, I left there when I was about two years of age. The family decided to come out of the Coal North country and come on down this way.

And we lived down in Florida for about two years in Orlando Winter Park. And then we moved up to Charlotte and then up to [00:05:00] Greensboro where I settled and was raised in Greensboro. And so that was, um, so, but I did go back to Wisconsin a lot because in my early years back in the. The latter part of the thirties and the early forties and all.

There was a lot of polio in North Carolina and polio wasn't as evident up in Wisconsin. So my folks sent me up to be with my grandmother up in Antigo, a little town in the northern part of Wisconsin. Sure. Gateway to the lakes, they call it. Yep. And that's where I spent a lot of my summers as a young kid, because if you were down here, you couldn't hang around with anybody.

You couldn't go to the movies, you couldn't go swimming. You just had them almost stay in your house. It was like COVID in a way. When that polio epidemic came. In fact, they built overnight in Greensboro, a polio [00:06:00] hospital for for young kids. And they were in the iron lungs and all that. And it was, it was a tremendous, um, expenditure and also of time and Red Cross and the nurses and doctors working there to help the children in this polio area. I'm, I am curious, you know, I, I told you off mic that I too wanted to be a priest. Really? I did, and I actually went to the seminary to visit, and that's about as far as it went for me, Uhhuh.

But you took it all away and it, and, and I'm just curious, you know, when did that happen? Well, it, it took a long period of time see back in Greensboro, I was raised in a by going to my education for the first eight years was a Catholic school. It was in a house and there were four rooms. And see there were very few [00:07:00] Catholics living in North Carolina at that time.

We had the sisters and you would have first and second grade in one room, third, third and fourth, and the next fifth and sixth, seventh and eighth. Four rooms, four groups of kids, about a hundred maybe. And um, you'd have these mix of wonderful. Um, being with the, with the sisters during the day and your parents at night.

And I was very lucky. Was there a special time in your life where you felt like you got the calling or was it just progressive through school and stuff? Yeah. Being in this, the school with the nuns, you know, and you had the, um, there was a funny story about that too, with the nuns and the priest. One time Bob Hope came to the city and he was going to perform.

And, um, I served mass early that morning. And the monsignor, the guy in charge of the parish, Monsignor Dolan was there and he said, oh, after the mass, what are [00:08:00] you gonna do today, John? I said, well, I'm gonna go see Bob Hope, Bob hope you got a ticket to see Bob Hope. And I said, yes, yes. My mother gave it to me.

He said, gosh, if you had two, I'd go with you. So then I go over to the school. I asked the sisters at the school, I said, now I have to get out at one o'clock to go see Bob. Hope we don't dismiss kids at one o'clock. We never dismiss any kids at one o'clock. What are you talking about? I said, well, my mother gave me this ticket to see Bob Hope.

And I said, 20 minute walk to the stadium here. And I thought I would go see Bob Hope. And she said, well, that's not gonna happen. That's not gonna happen. I said, now I learned from my mother that there was always somebody above you know, so I said, well, who do I see now? She said, what do you mean, who do you see now?

I said, I said, well, she said, the only, the, the, the principal, [00:09:00] you, you can see the principal if you want to. So I went to see Sister Eleanor and she said, and she gave me the same line. We went on and on and she said, you're not going to see Bob. Hope you really don't dismiss kids. We dismiss at three o'clock.

And I said, well she said, I said, well, who do I see now? She said, what do you mean, who do you see now the only person that can get you outta here is Monsignor Dolan. And I said, well, he said this morning he really had it. That would be a great idea. He would go with me if he could. And he was very happy that I was gonna see Bob Hope.

And she slammed her foot down and she said, you can go see him if you want. You were very wise at a young age. Oh, it really was. You learn these things as you go, listen to your parents the way they act. So that was it. But I, but I was impressed with the, with the, [00:10:00] with the, with the sisters. And they taught me the Catholic faith and also, um.

There was a period of time there too that my mother was very ill. She had had contracted cancer and she was very, very ill. And the priests were so diligent about visiting her and, and taking care of her and being responsive. Plus there was a priest in the parish by the name of Josh Mundell, and he was, everybody in Greensboro knew Josh.

He was, he was on the GGO committee, the Greater Greensboro open the golf committee. And, and he was just a really wonderful young priest. And he had a loud bell under his car when he would come by, bang, bang, bang, and ring that bell. And I just enjoyed his enthusiasm and everything then at a period and that was going on.

So I, um, was thinking even of going over to, to a [00:11:00] minor seminary back then. That would be, you go away for high school. I would go up to Baltimore. My best friend, Bobby George did do that. And he went up there. I did not, I changed my mind and did not go on up to Baltimore at that time. And finished my high school in, in Greensboro at the local public high school for a year.

I lived in Lexington, North Carolina and in Lexington. I went down there and the kids were just so received me, so just really very nice, all the guys there. And I wanted to get me in the key club down there and everything like that, which was great. And I really drew close to these guys and gals and, and the four of those guys were out.

Um I believe it was three on a given Saturday. And I didn't, I was not with them. It was during the [00:12:00] winter. But I just admired them so greatly. And they were out fishing, I guess, and I had often thought about maybe explaining more about the Catholic faith to them. And they had a terrible incident on a lake down there near, near Lexington.

And the, the, the boat they were in, they, they had all their winter garb on boots and so forth like that, it capsized and these three guys drowned. Oh no. And that was just a shock to me in my system. And they gave me the, the notion, the notion of the shortness of life. You know, this, this life doesn't last forever.

There is a wonderful period of time and you live and, and have your being and everything like that, but there, there comes a time when the Lord will greet us once again and when we die and, and, [00:13:00] so I was just really struck by that. So that was about my junior year of high school. And then towards, um, at that particular time, my parents really, especially my mother, they did not like the heat of North Carolina down here in this way.

So my mother would she and I would go up to blowing rock in western North Carolina, and this was, the war was going on back then and everything. And she would go and we would stay at an end up there like $50 a week or something like that, where the guy ran the end from up in Virginia and he had all this food and you, so not only was she getting away from the heat.

She was also, we, she could save all of her saving stamps. You, the stamps you have for beef and, and and [00:14:00] sugar and butter and all those different stamps we had. She wouldn't have to spend those because he was bringing the food in from the north. My dad would come up on the weekend and so we, they went out looking for property one day and they found a fella that was quite wealthy, had a big business and he had an estate, but he had been in a situation with a divorce and he wanted to sell all of this, his 18 hole, 18 acres on a golf course.

And so he wanted to sell that with the big banner house and the, and the six car garage and everything like that. And he wanted to sell it for this unbelievable price that was this. Unbelievable. It was just unbelievable. And my dad knew you could get loans and things like that. And so he managed to purchase this and we turned it into an inn and ran the [00:15:00] inn.

And a lot of times we had customers that were a honeymooners. And that was a great delight just being with these young couples and being kind to them. And I would be relating to them and telling them what they could do and where they could go and all. And one day the, um, one of these cusp couples, they wanted to go up.

I suggested they have a picnic on the Blue Ridge Parkway and watch the sunset and do all that. And they were so, they said, would you come with us? And I said, no, I'm not coming with you. And I, we prepared all the food and gave it to 'em and off they go. Well, we kept up with that couple and they settled in Greensboro and he was in neurologist.

They settled there and he was a, a doctor and a neurologist working at the hospital in Greensboro. And then all of a sudden my mother and I would visit them. They lived in [00:16:00] Greensboro up north and they had a lovely home and three kids and or as time went by, two kids, three kids. And um, my mother and I would go up and visit him one day.

He said, can I speak to you in the library? And I said, yes. Well, what is it? And he said, he said, come in the library. I want to talk to you. And went in the library and he said, I've got something to tell you. And I said, what's that? He said, I have cancer, cancer of the brain. And I started to cry. I said, what?

Oh my God. Oh my goodness. And he was, he said, and he came over and he started consoling me. He was consoling me. And I was just devastated to think that here's this very successful guy with a beautiful wife and children, and he's, and he is his, that's his whole field is brains and he's got this, this cancer.

And, um, he said, John, I, I'll be deceased [00:17:00] in about a year, but I, I know the Lord Jesus and I am very close to him and I know what life is all about in heaven. I love my dear wife. I know they'll be taken care of my children and I'm sinking and spending more time with them, and he's just consoling the goodness out out me.

And I am just devastated by this. And um, and then when I left my mother in the car, she asked me what had, what had conversed with me. I said, mother, he's got cancer and he thinks he will be when she started to cry. And then, so the next thing was that I, I thought, well, how wonderful it is. And then there's this line in scripture, how do people know the Lord unless someone gives them the message and spreads it, talks to them about it.

That reaffirmed me even more about that particular aspect [00:18:00] of maybe I should be thinking more about priesthood like my friend Bobby was. And, and and so I began to think of that then it came time to go to college and it so happened that I was accepted at duke University. They had taken the the various, um, um opportunities to be accepted there.

Different programs they had and scholarships and things. And so I was accepted at Duke and I was almost prepared to go there. And now my friend Bobby, he, he he finished high school, but he didn't go on, he came to North Carolina State and got a degree in engineering here. But I, I, now, I'm summer before going to college, and all of a sudden at the parish one of the priests said, well, maybe you [00:19:00] should if you're thinking of priesthood, maybe you should go to Catholic College.

So at the middle of the summer, I changed from Duke to Georgetown in Washington and started going up there with the Jesuit fathers. And that was, that was an interesting experience. Sad to ask. I mean, you didn't go to Pope University? No, no. Villanova. Was it in the cards back then? No, nothing that, that's where I went.

So, you know. There you go. Villanova, right? Oh gosh. Pope Leo. Yeah. Oh, with Bobby. Were you with Bobby? No, I wasn't. Everybody asked me that question. I'm like, gimme some credit. I'm a little younger than the Poke. Oh, he's so great. Oh gosh. He is. Um, I have a really good friend at ANOVA that he was a basketball player, ed Hastings, who played back in the seventies.

Us against UCLA when the final four and all that stuff. Yeah. And, um, he's up there now teaching and he called me right after that and we were [00:20:00] talking and um, and I said, what'd you think? And he said, well, my goodness. He said, I was sitting there and he was in school with him and knew him very well in, in various works with Villanova and also with the Augustinians and all that.

And so he knew him like, like the back of his hand. And he said, when I was sitting there watching this on tv, and all of a sudden that he walks out on the balcony of that St. Peter's, he is the pope, he said, he said, I just burst into tears, burst into tears. I, it was unbelievable. I just cried and cried and cried.

I was up there for a reunion in June and they have t-shirts that say Pope University now, so they're gonna play that I'm sure. Find a way to jack the tuition up another 20 grand a year too. So he was, he was the greatest. He was. Anyhow, so you're at Georgetown or you just had to Georgetown and I'm there and everything like that.

And, um going on and, and [00:21:00] they were like all along the way with this journey. It was a journey. There's, you have ups and downs in the whole thing. And so like you probably, you know, you had that beautiful visit there to the seminary and then you thought, well, maybe, and then you have a little down and your spirituality and everything.

Well, I was really down at Georgetown. I was, I was really I was thinking still about priesthood and but I was just, I had the very thought of it was just not as nice. The spiritual feelings disappeared. Going to mass and stuff like that. So I was sitting in the, in the library one day and I was saying, God, if you don't, if you don't tell me why you're treating me like this.

And if you're really, God, I wanna know, because I, I, if I'm thinking of [00:22:00] giving my life to you and blah, blah, blah, and you're treating me like this and everything is so empty and dry and, and not feeling like spiritual and everything like that, and I wanna know what's going on. And I said, I'm going over to that library shelf, it was the religion section.

And I'm gonna close my eyes, gonna take a book, and I'm gonna walk back here and I'm going to open that book. And I want to know why I am left in this empty, unhappy moment. Why I am not getting all this sweetness of believing and everything like that. And I want you to give me an answer to that. Go take the book, don't look at it, bring it over.

Open it up, and I don't even o open my eyes. I still got 'em closed and open it up and point my finger to a page. And now I get one emotional, when I say that the the book was written in the [00:23:00] 15 hundreds or or something like that, it was St. Vincent Paul. And it was an address to some sisters in a convent.

And he, it said, our heavenly father is like an earthly father. Hmm. And when an earthly father comes home from work in the evening and his children run to the door to greet him, he may every now and then reach in his pocket and give them some sweets, some candies. But a good earthly father would never give candy.

Every time the children run to him for fear, they're being running to him for the candy and not for himself. I just put my head down. Wow. It was a, a most marvelous moment of my life. So that was your profound moment. It was a profound, it sure sounds like it would be. [00:24:00] It was a very profound one. Yeah. Very profound.

Very profound. So with those, the combination of things that were going on in my being namely with the, with the thought of how short our life is with those three guys drowning and, and all that. And then the, the young young physician with his deep love of Jesus and how he got that. Then the the knowing this relationship with God, how he's, he's constantly with you and even though you don't know it, and he's maybe not giving you candy at that particular time and maybe some difficulty or struggle or something else.

And then there was one other instance. And in Georgetown one night I was in the chapel thinking about all this, and I was a sophomore and I said, well, now I'm pretty smart and everything. I figured this out. [00:25:00] This could all be just a bunch of bologna, you know? And I'm sitting back there thinking, um, and then all of a sudden this Jesuit dressed comes in.

I couldn't see him. He's way up there in the altar and I'm sitting way in the back and I can just see an old figure, a figure. And he comes there. And he, he kneels in front of the the, the altar in front of the blessed sacrament. And he prays nice. Well, he's probably one of the brothers here that clean the restrooms and serve the food and work in the kitchen and sweep the floors.

And he's, you know, not as smart as I am. And he hasn't analyzed all this like I have and everything like that. And I said, well, that's, that's fascinating. So, but he can, he can do that. That's good. That's okay for him. But it's not for me because I'm pretty smart. Now. I'm a sophomore. You know what a sophomore means?

Why is fool? [00:26:00] It's the Sao Morris wise fool. But anyway, I was pretty sharp about everything. So anyway, they come back, I knew where the best dances were in town. But anyway, they come back down the aisle. He's, he comes walking down the aisle.

Lo and behold, it's the president of the university. And his picture was on the front page of the Washington Post that morning where he had just been appointed to the Atomic Energy Commission

shut that theory and things like that, that reaffirm my faith and, and that there is this wonderful God that loves us so greatly and that some wise, unbelievable people just embrace that concept. And, and here again, [00:27:00] um, maybe I should be thinking of, um, becoming a priest. So I did apply to the Diocese of Raleigh, and then I was, accepted for studies the next year, and I left my roommates and my friends at Georgetown and went up to Baltimore. And that's where I spent my next next two years, junior year and senior year. And my my roommate Bill Joyce, he became back at Georgetown. We had a, I was studying there in, in class when there was a, a fellow that he did a, he went on to law school along with my roommate and, um, and his name was, I was in class with him.

There were four of us and so forth at different classes. And, um, he, he, he didn't do real good at at law. He, they, he got later he was made went to [00:28:00] the Supreme Court. His name, his name was Scalia and Scalia. He was a, he was such a fun guy and a really delightful person. And then and so it was, it was just um, wonderful.

And then I keep up with my friend Bill. It was after I left. He became Scalia's roommate. And, um, and he was his best man for his wedding. I could tell you the story of the wedding and everything like that, but I won't get into that. But anyway, it was just a, a wonderful and I keep up with Bill, he calls me right now, he's retired, living up in, um, up in, um, Maryland.

Mm-hmm. So that was, but that, that was it. And then, then I did that two years in, in Georgetown. And two years at, in Baltimore at the seminary for the first time. And then I received a, a telegram from the [00:29:00] bishop that I wouldn't be continuing at St. Mary's in Baltimore at that seminary, but I would be going to, um, Rome, Italy.

And then I was, went to Rome for the next four years where I was at, in studies at the American College over there. I enjoyed that. It was really funny. My mother woke up, my dad at night. They were, I, I came home late in the evening with some buddies and, and they said, were you gonna tell your parents you're going to Rome to study?

And I said, yeah, I will. I think so. And went, would you better go tell 'em now? Well, I went in there, mother was reading a book. Dad was asleep. And and I said to mother, I'm going to Rome to study. And she said, oh my gosh, how long? Four years. Oh my goodness. Art, art. Wake up, wake up. Art. Art. And um, and he wakes up, what, what?

And she says, John's going to Rome to study for four years [00:30:00] and to be a priest. And, and, and she, she said, oh, oh, Rome. How far is that from Monte Carlo?

You know what's interesting? You know, I, I'm, I don't Good. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I don't wanna make this about me, but [00:31:00] so much of what you just said is, is something I think that's relatable to anybody who's on this journey. Right. Um, how, how do you. Your hindsight's 2020. Now you can look back and it is almost as though you can connect the dots.

Right? I can. When the Lord actually spoke to you Right. In a very wonderful way. Mm-hmm. And I, and I keep waiting for the big bill. That's not gonna come. It probably doesn't come to anybody does it. It does. But you don't know it. Yeah. Right. You don't recognize it. Don't. Right. Your ability to broadcast and everything like that, the gifts God has given you just to be able to do what you do or have done and continue to do.

It's incredible. It's in, we don't even think about it. We, we think, and it may be just ups and downs of your life and the downs are periods when you can, um, I say the downs are like, everybody has them. They're like coals. Yes. You know, you get a cold, you're gonna get over it. Right. But you're miserable. Why?

You got it. [00:32:00] And it's go and, you know, you're not, it's not the worst of things, but it, it is in a way right now, it is terrible. That's life. And but the God that loves us is, cares for us and supports us. And strengthens us, and inspires us, is constantly with us. He, he is. It's just there. Ian, you are Sure I can, I can, I can tell you.

Yeah. I certain about that. You have no doubts. No doubts. No, no. Well, you can doubt it. You can because that's another part of it. Because if it was so, if it was so emphatic all the time, and so it took away your free will, you see, you know, if I put a quarter on this table, everybody in in Raleigh will say what's that?

And he, you say to 'em, what's that? And they said, that's a quarter sitting there on that table. They're forced to say that, yes, God does not want us forced. He wants us to have [00:33:00] this freedom. This ability to, to, to, to love. Love is freedom. You know, that's the way you're, you're not forced to love the girlfriend you're going with in high school, or the person you're marry, not forced, you're not forced to do that.

Right. It's the freedom that God gives us and that freedom is what's so very important and so beautiful and everything. I So you do have your doubts at times? Oh, I do. And it, it's, it's, I think all of us, especially as we get towards the end of the journey Yeah. You know, you get finite life, you begin to really notice that, hopefully.

And I do believe, yeah. Oh, in Jesus and God. But there, the doubt sometimes can be, can be difficult. It can holly you up sometimes. Oh, there's maybe pain and, and something related to the church. Sure. Or related to anything. Upsets a number of people, lose their friends in life. Mm-hmm. And suffer accidents and so forth.

And then wonder if there's a [00:34:00] loving God, why did this happen? You know? Right. And that's natural and that's, God understands he's a big God. He knows, he, he can understand and sympathize with us. You follow me? I do. You know, I watched a bit of your, could be a comedian, I don't know if you know this rather than a Monsignor, you have comedic timing.

I was watching this and it was not your 90 being 90 years old, but you mentioned something. You said, um, I'm lucky, I'm blessed and my, my Catholicism. Is what made me who I am. Basically. I'm, I'm paraphrasing. Right? Right. But this is true. Could you explain that this is true? Well, I I, if I didn't have all this Yeah.

This understanding and, and that's why my heart goes out to so many of the young people today, or people that don't have that right now. It's all just. Immediate now, and I don't have as good [00:35:00] big a car as that I would like, and oh, my, my whole life is centered on just the, the, um, it's not, it's, it's, it's money and, and success and, and abilities and that I've gotta be stronger, more intelligent, more better than, more better, as some friend of mine used to say that than somebody else.

And they, you don't realize that, that, wait a minute, God loves you as you are and gives you these gifts that he is given you. And they're different than that other person has, but they're very substantial and wonderful. And, and so they don't, but they don't have that understanding. Plus they're looking for something substantial and solid and, and to build their lives on.

And that's, that's the big cry now that we're getting with a lot of people that are young people especially, that are coming to the church. And it drove, we can't understand it by around the world this past year. We [00:36:00] had such a big influx of people deciding to join us in the, in the, in our faith journey.

And it's biggest bigger, every, every parish, every campus, everyone is, is saying what's going on here? That so many people are looking to. To the church for substance and some stability and, and answers that are solid and, and strengthened and can help them in their lives and so forth like that. Were they not finding it in the little books that they're getting at the stores or, or they're not finding it in other things that they've tried and, and so forth.

So it's fascinating, which it is. And excited. You've lived obviously a very long life and you know, you talk about when you were younger, those mm-hmm. Your three friends that perished Right. You know, in a boating accident.

Right. Um, did you ever think you were gonna be. [00:37:00] Live into, into your nineties and what, what are some of the things that keep you going? Oh, the yeah, that's, I just, and an interesting thing like this, I never thought about doing something like this three weeks ago and just to see you guys and be with you and, and, and sort of share my feelings and ideas and, um, that's, that keeps me going.

But, and, and it's also the opportunities that I have like the, the wedding this past weekend I that I was just called to do and I, oh gosh, what's this all about? And I just loved that couple. And I had a, a, a rehearsal dinner. Just got to know their families and meet them. I have this basic thing of people, I love people and love to be with people, and, that came from my father and my mother and that, that [00:38:00] environment of the hotel or the inn during the, my formative years of adolescence and making people rejoice and happier and, and whatever we're doing. I was thinking of hotel business for a long while. I thought I would go in, go to Cornell and, and go with a Hilton school up there and become a hotel manager.

'cause that's what a hotel person does. He's constantly working, make the guests happy, better wedding, get the dining room better to serve finer food, all that stuff. And, and, and to bring more people in. I just never wanted to sit at a desk and a shirt like that. 'cause I, my dad had business week and, and he would bring that home and I'd see all these men sitting and these offices doing stuff with calculators and all that.

I just never, never appealed to me. Right. And then I thought of, oh, [00:39:00] well this is, um, doing like what I am doing. And so that was a joy. But, and that continues because I can still go to the hospital. I can still perform weddings like your two daughters mm-hmm. And our lovely weddings. And I can still bury people and go to their homes when I hear of a, of a, of a, of a death and console them and, and have the funeral mass or the funeral ceremony.

Back at the church and um, and then go to the reception afterwards and talk to them and all those different things that we're, I'm mixing with people and, um, and hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, um, bringing a Christ-like presence into that setting. And, um, but it, it's interesting sometimes I get more out of seeing their, their [00:40:00] wonder and their beauty and their love of God and that reflect, I, I get wrapped up in because they are so wonderful in themselves, especially the sick people that are struggling with illness and people that have gone through divorces and people that are, that your really heart goes out to and you see how close they are to God.

And that's, that's always experience. We had a retreat program in the church called Corillo. I was asked once to go on a curcio. So I sat at a table with people for guys, it was all guys. And about eight of them. And I was thinking I was somebody and I, and I was, I knew a lot about the church. I learned something here.

Well, I learned more from them than I ever. It put me down a notch, but at the same time, it gave me ability to see how [00:41:00] God's working in everybody's life, so forth like that. So that's what I still enjoy, being around people and doing that. And one of the stories from my experience that stands out is my mother-in-law passed, I guess what, seven or eight years ago now.

And she just happened to be living in the area. She was living down in the Wilmington area for a while. And, um, St. Michael's where my wife and I go assigned a priest to do the funeral. And just so happened to be. You 'cause all the resident priests, I guess were busy. And, um so we reconnected and, um, and I don't think it was because of me and our past relationship but it was just Monsignor Wall saying, when can I come over?

When can I sit with your wife? When can I sit with your sister-in-law? So I need to learn more about your mother-in-law. Right? And so you come over mm-hmm. You had a little yellow pad. You sit in our porch area and um you ask a bunch of questions for [00:42:00] like an hour and a half and then we go do the funeral.

And it's like Monsignor knew her since the moment she was born. Mm. And that's special. You don't get that in a lot of priests. Yeah. You really don't. And, um, you know, one of my more frustrating stories was back in the day of, um, St. Mike's, we were in a beer warehouse, um, literally in the 1990s. And, um we have a new pastor.

And it's Monsignor Wall, and he's talking about we're gonna build this big beautiful church. 'cause the old St. Michaels was on another side of town. And being a young family with two little kids at the time, um, you went into this, basically this dark dungeon of a church and with a bunch of older people and wasn't really welcoming to families.

And then we go to this beer warehouse and there's kids blasting everywhere and there's young families and everything else. It was a beautiful community. And then we have a father inspiration over here telling us we're gonna build this palace this beautiful church on High House Road at some point in time.

So we, we ended up [00:43:00] doing it Uhhuh, and then we started the school. And then of course, I wanted. Ball fields. Mm-hmm. And gyms for the kids to play. My kids, especially to play basketball and everything. And every year we go to Monster say, can we do it? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Because he's gotta deal with 5,000 families.

Right? Sure. Right. It's not just about me. And but thankfully we're able to get it done over the long haul and that's probably one of the best parishes did a wonderful job. Yeah. Because of you. Um, yeah. You know, getting that, that whole parish going at that point. But we bought the property. Well yeah, that was a big thing too, to get the property next door, which was a lovely friends The Baptist owned that, and then we were able to purchase that so we'd have extra land to do all these other things, which was good.

Yeah. He had the vision. I think none of us really had at that time. Yeah. But to, to come over into interview to learn somebody about somebody that you didn't know that you were gonna do a funeral. That's right. [00:44:00] Was love. Yeah. It's, it's a, yeah. And there everybody's so important. That was one of the things that, um, hope, um, John the 23rd, I, that's a long story, but I got to meet him before he was hope.

One time he was just a cardinal in Rome and, um, he was there and we went up and this priest, father Byron, he said, well, John, he could be the next Pope. And I said, no, he's not gonna be the next pope. And he said, I said, why? He's too heavy. I said, he said, he said that, John, that's ridiculous. So we went up and and I entered, were talking, and I introduced everybody to him.

He said and he said, and he said where are you from? And I said, I'm from where? From Carolina Del nor.[00:45:00]

And he said, oh, oh. He said, depends, I think that there, there are many Protestants there. And I, he said, yes. I said, how many? He said, I said, 99%. And he said, mama. And then he started bragging about his hometown Bergamo. And then, then we were talking, he said, well, who are these people you have with us? And I said, well, we have here this is my pastor from Greensboro, Monsignor Freeman.

And we have we have these, my seminarian friend Bob, and we have this other priest, father Byron from Charlotte. And he's, he said, oh, he said he said. Monsignor Freeman, I said, but he's Vicar General, which is a big deal in the church. You're assistant to the bishop and everything. And and back then in 1960, if, um, if the Bishop is sick or dies, [00:46:00] you become the bishop, acting bishop, like, but he's not really a bishop, but you act, you fulfill the role of a bishop till the Vatican appoints a new one.

Wow. Okay. So he says, he says, oh, Monsignor Freeman, gimme your, oh, Monsignor Freeman lay.

Every morning you look at the bishop and you say, Bishop, good morning. How are you feeling?

Told you he could be a comedian. This is the Pope. This is, this is the Pope. The soon to be Pope. Three days, four days later, he's the Pope. Oh, that is funny. And he's rubbing his little belly, laughing his head off. And I am screaming and yelling, laughing. We're all screaming and laughing. It was so funny.

Well, he's the same one that the next day, the next day or after he became Pope that [00:47:00] had a press conference and Guy stood up and you, you, you, you're holding how many people work here at the Vock and Oh, he pe somebody pe him, me pe me pe. I think half of them.

That is. Oh, he was so funny. Funny. He was so funny. Do you have a favorite pope? Oh, I do. He, he, he sounds like, so John the 23rd and Francis and, and John Paul too, and all these recent ones have been just marvelous in every way. And, and I think Leo, the Fourteenth's gonna be just magnificent. How many of you met and met personally?

Um PIOs in the sense of being with him a lot, I was with PIOs the 12, maybe 40 or 50 times, and, and different ceremonies and different things like that. To speak with him and everything was John, John the 23rd. And, um, he, in fact, [00:48:00] we had another meeting one time after he was Pope and we were standing there at, at Costello Gandolfo, and out a summer place where this one just went.

For the summer and for a vacation. But it's a place out near, it's up in the hills overlooking Rome. It's cooler at night. And there he was, and it was three of us in the room. And, and we, and they, he said to the bishop, the bishop was there and he said to the bishop, he said where are you going from here?

And he said, we're going to the Holy Land, adaa. And he said, oh my first airplane ride was to the Holy Land, Len Ian. He is trying to think of the airline. Well, I didn't read the book. Don't interrupt the Pope Paul. He's thinking, yes. And I just couldn't take it any longer. I'm standing alongside of him.

And finally he says.[00:49:00]

Finally I said, I said, Seline, El France, air France, you're holiness. And he said, see ment. And he, he stepped back and he whammed me on the back and I go flying forward. And he says, Bravo. Good boy. Good boy. Bear France. And the bishop is looking, why is he slapping John on the back? It's so funny. That's funny.

That's funny. It was so funny. And he was great. He was great. He was you're 90 years, 90 years old. You don't seem like you're 90 years old. But if you look past over your life, see, I think you're in such a unique position because it's not only your life mm-hmm. But you've touched the lives [00:50:00] untold thousands.

With being a priest, right? Um, what, what, when do you look back and where we are today? Do you, do you, can you make sense of it? I mean, how are we doing? What are we overcoming our problems? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. That's a fascinating question. Yeah. Yeah. Do we, are we have more problems or do we have less problems?

That's interesting. Yeah. Um, yeah. I, I, I see in so many ways, um, a, a progress, real progress. I think back in my own day, how opinionated I was about everything, you know? And, yeah. And people are no good, and blah, blah, blah, and he's blah, blah, blah. And as a little teenager in high school and putting down people and, and making fun of [00:51:00] him and everything.

And and so, um, but I don't see that that going on among the high school and college crowd today. I don't see that as where they can just negate a whole group of people or something. They don't, they don't seem to like to do that. And I think that's very positive. A sense of charity, a sense of kindness, a sense of love, and a sense of acceptance.

Acceptance, you know? So I see that. I also see where in my own mind, I'm less hopefully maybe more humble than I was before thinking I knew it all, or something like that. As you go through life, you realize that if, well, it's that. Pope John the 23rd told us there were three things he told us after we were ordained.

And there, I can't remember the first two, but the third one was, there is never a person in this world that you meet, that you can't learn something from. [00:52:00] Wow. Wow. And then, and so that was, so I think that as I've learned to be maybe keep my mouth shut and listen to people more, or look at them or walk in their shoes or different things like that.

And I think that's been helpful to me and to, and I see that quality among people. Um, so I see with the, with the changes that we've had in the church, oh my goodness, ecumenism this relationship. When the Vatican Council happened, and then we became more open and friendly with other denominations, and they the same way with us.

It was wonderful. It was wonderful. Still is. And I see that as prog definite progress. And so there's so many aspects of of clerical and priestly life and all that, that I see as, as, um, as, [00:53:00] as having progressed and having become better as time in my 90 years of looking around, seeing stuff and stuff like that, especially in the whole civil rights area.

I just spent a two a week traveling through the south to Montgomery and to Selma and to Memphis and just looking at all the museums and seeing the great progress that our African American people have made and we have to, and. So much more to go to. And, but that was a, a plus. And I see that all happen during my lifetime.

So I remember all that. I remember I was at Camp Lejeune when when when John Kennedy was shot driving down the, the Camp Lejeune, you know the marine base here? Yeah. And driving down the highway. And I said, oh my goodness. And I pulled into the radio station where I had a [00:54:00] little weekly program and the guy saw me coming in and he, I said, where's the teletype?

Where's the teletype? And he said, the teletype. He said, studio A. And I said, teletype machine. He said, studio A. And I went in Studio A and I'm looking around and, and then I see all of a sudden I see on air, on air, on air. And he said, and now father Wall, the lead us in prayer. Oh my God. I did, I almost died.

This was a, the, the local station for the marine base. They weren't pulling in other stations now, back then. And so I set a prayer and everything else like that. Thank you. Now father, we would now rejoin the network. And then I went to the teletype machine and saw that he, the president had died. You know, then that night we had a big the ceremony there with all the marine generals and everything, because we had a, the largest space in town for a, that type of activity.

Sure. So, and then I got up with the, [00:55:00] the rabbi and the, and the different Protestant ministers and the pastor was out of town actually, and had a big ceremony that evening. So that was very moving, all these different things. Sure. Ups and downs through the knowing how the country can back, can bounce back, can, can, comes alive again and goes on and, and that, that's seeing that in society has been interesting.

I never got over the folk mass. You've never been to a folk mass? No, I have no, I even played in it, but I, I remember as an altar boy, I, I practiced Latin. Oh my heavens. And and Dan k. Got you. Well, I don't remember now, but but I, I, I did, and then it was like we, you were playing guitar. Well, for the folk masses.

It was the traditional Catholic. Yeah, it was the feeling you walked in there was something, I don't know, it was just an ominous presence with the Latin, [00:56:00] and then we went to you know Oh yeah, folk. The folk mass. I was, I was never a big fan. Yeah. Well, I had, but but I had, I had a, um a, a parish board chairman and against him, and he was very much upset about all this modern.

No, I can imagine. And the folk mass and, and with the guitars and all that in the sanctuary, it drove him out of his mind. And so he came up to me and he said, John, I know father, he said, I was just at Myrtle Beach last weekend. And I said, oh, you were, what, what, how was that? And he said, it was the most marvelous thing I've ever seen in my life.

And he said, the music was so great and so wonderful, and the, and the gut and the, and the guitars and everything. They were so good. They drowned out the darn drums.

Well, it certainly kept me in the church a, a much longer [00:57:00] period played in the, in the folk mass. So, you know, you wonder, you wonder if that was God's way. Oh my, my aunt, my aunt and uncle went one day and they thought it was for the, for the old folks. Oh. When they went to the folk mass and they realized the young folk.

That's funny. Um, I mean, obviously the, to you at that point, I mean, there has been a lot more music incorporated than Mass, right. You know, in the last Oh, 30 or 40 years. Yeah, sure. That's right. Yeah. That's, that's been two True. Yeah. So you've been a phenomenal guest. Yes. We appreciate your time today.

Well, I've enjoyed it so much. I'm sure you, thank you. Sure. You really hit me with those hard questions and everything like that. I thought this was wonderful. So the close, we always ask our guests to impart five things of wisdom, you know, to our audience. Obviously you talked. Recently about, um, you can always learn from somebody.

That's right. I assume that's one of yours. That's right. Yeah. One of mine. Yeah. One of mine is the I think the, [00:58:00] the Good Samaritan parable about loving God. That's what we should do. We should really love our God because he loves us so greatly. He's created us and for the Christian, we believe his son Jesus redeemed us.

And, um, so we should love our God and our neighbor, people that are surrounding us and, and everybody like that. I think also that we should, um, my dad always gave me a thing, if you're in a position of leadership or something like that, that the secret to administration. Delegation and I, my dad gave me that.

He said also that the, the shortest pencil is better than the longest memory. But those are the two things he taught me. And so that passing that on, that secret of, of administration working with people, his delegation, seeing their [00:59:00] talents and allowing that to flow and, and surface. Um, and all, there's so many other things that we could think about.

Just, just the whole idea of, um, difficulties. Yeah. That we all have 'em and we all have struggles and, but they're like coals. And just because you got a cold doesn't mean you're an awful, terrible person or, or you're, or don't get down on yourself. Don't get down on yourself. If God forgives us so easily, we should certainly forgive ourselves for our imperfect.

All the little difficulties that we have in our lives and struggles and um, and then that sense of of kindness to others and working with them and always trying to advance them. And I think also you should get a lot of sleep and, and if you can't get to sleep, you should try to learn to do what [01:00:00] I did in Italy, have siestas because it makes every day, two days.

There you go. Great stuff. Yeah. That's wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, I've enjoyed being with you and thank you. God bless you. Thank you too, Lord bless you and keep you.

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