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That’s Not Very Ladylike is the podcast for every woman who was told to be polite, stay calm, or stop being so dramatic, meanwhile her hormones, boundaries, and sanity were quietly falling apart.
Hosted by Tracey Willingham, licensed social worker and the voice behind That Hormone Girl™, each episode starts with one rule: Ladies don’t…and then they do it anyway.
Together, we unpack the unspoken expectations, the emotional labor, the generational BS, and the hormone chaos modern women are carrying and we get honest about what it actually takes to feel like yourself again.
If you’re ready to question the rules, trust your body, and stop shrinking to make everyone else comfortable, you’re in the right place.
You're listening to That's Not Very Ladylike, the show where every week, we start with one rule, ladies don't, and then we do it anyway. Welcome back to another episode of That's Not Very Ladylike. Today is my birthday. Thank you. And I saved this topic just for my birthday because it's one that I like.
Tracey:It is one that just sets me over the edge and it's important to me. So I was like, happy birthday. I'm going talk about the one I want to talk about on my birthday. So, today's episode is ladies don't interrupt mansplaining. They just get talked over.
Tracey:Yeah, I told you it's a good one. So, there's a rule most women learn so early that it doesn't even feel like a rule. It just feels like part of the personality, part of society. I'm just not great at jumping in. I don't like interrupting.
Tracey:I seem to be better at one on one. But underneath that, what's really being said, what's really been taught to us is ladies don't interrupt, ladies don't compete for airtime, and ladies don't raise their voices to reclaim space. Instead, ladies wait. And they wait for a pause that never comes. And then they start a sentence and someone jumps in before they can finish.
Tracey:And then they finally find the space to speak and the conversation moves on mid thought. And so then they offer an idea. And it just floats out there unnoticed. Until five minutes later, when a man repeats it louder and suddenly, it's visionary. And here's the part that really hits for me.
Tracey:Women don't stop speaking because they have nothing to say. We stop because we've learned how rooms punish us when we do. If you push back too much, you're rude. If you interrupt, that's aggressive. And if you hold the floor, you are difficult.
Tracey:So, adapt. So, we begin to soften. We hedge. We pre apologize and what I mean by pre apologize is like, this might be a dumb question. I'm probably wrong but just one small thing.
Tracey:And it's not because we doubt ourselves. But because we're trying to survive the room that we find ourselves in. So, some of the cultural conditioning that comes along with that is that little girls are praised for being polite, not powerful. And we're taught to share space even when no one shares it back. We're rewarded for being accommodating and we're corrected for being assertive.
Tracey:And if you grew up in communities where being outspoken could cost you more culturally, socially, professionally, that lesson gets even sharper. And let's just go deep. Let's let's look at some of these stereotypes that are placed on women solely on race. Black women are labeled angry. Latina women are labeled dramatic.
Tracey:Asian women are labeled as disrespectful and white women are labeled as aggressive. So, have all these different stereotypes, but guess what? It's the same message. Stay in your lane. Don't take up too much air.
Tracey:So, over time, something subtle happens. You begin to anticipate being interrupted. You rush your thoughts. I gotta get it out. You edit mid sentence.
Tracey:You might even shrink your idea back. You might lower it. You might cut out a portion of it before anyone else has to. And then you wait your turn. In rooms where no one is waiting for you.
Tracey:And eventually, you just stop raising your hand at all. And it's not because you're lacking confidence. It's not because you're like, I don't have a lot of knowledge in that. But a lot of times, it's because our experience has taught us that speaking up does not guarantee being heard. So, got a two part story today because it's my birthday.
Tracey:We're going extra. So, let's start with part one of which I will call theology class. So, if you haven't listened to all of my episodes, I shared several episodes back that it's for a little bit. I was a youth minister which I know. I mentioned in that episode like everybody always dies laughing like it's like the funniest thing which I mean, if once you get to know me, it is kind of funny that at some point in my life, I was there and I don't know if I've mentioned this at some point but at some point, my husband went to seminary twice before he was like, nope, that this isn't for me.
Tracey:So we have a deep history of kind of weaving our lives through theology. And so we will start with today's story, part one, theology class. So when I really sat down to think of a story for this episode, it it really started to kind of make me sad. And it kind of took me a long time to pick one. And it's not because I couldn't think of one.
Tracey:It's because there were so many. And I know that if some of you did the same thing and sat down, you would probably have so many to choose from as well. And I think it's important to also point out that not most, I mean, not all of the men who mansplained me were my bosses. Some of them were my peers, my classmates, my colleagues, men that sat next to me in a theology class. So, I was preparing to be a youth minister.
Tracey:I'm at college doing the thing and technically, women were allowed. Now, the denomination that I was a part of, women were allowed to like go so far like you could be a youth minister. You might even be able to be like a deaconess but like past pastoral roles, absolutely not. So, there's already that kind of like rule when you're in the classroom like, you know, hey, stick to your lane. Be a teacher, be a youth minister, but you can't be at the big boy table.
Tracey:That's that's for the that's for the men. So, technically, women were allowed and we were reminded very often that we should be grateful that we even get to be a youth minister. We get to be a teacher. You get to be in early education. But that also started turning into being reminded of why we were still somehow less capable.
Tracey:So, I was less capable of interpreting theology. I was less capable of understanding scripture and I was definitely less capable of teaching with authority and oh gosh, guys. I got in trouble so much in the classroom because guess what I did? I started asking thoughtful questions because I thought that's what the classroom was for. But that's not what it was for because guess what happened?
Tracey:I was not met with curiosity. I was not met with accolades where it was like, good, good question, Tracy. Let's let's break into that class. I was met with correction. And peers would explain to me what my place was.
Tracey:And professors would warn that my questions were dangerous. Dangerous. And I remember thinking like, isn't this exactly where I should be asking these questions in the classroom? Because guess what? When I get out and get placed in a church, I'm going to have to guide people through doubt.
Tracey:And if I have doubts or if I have questions about how do we how do we believe this? How do we navigate people? That's a problem but no. Absolutely not. The unspoken answer was calm down, Tracy.
Tracey:And better yet, let a man explain it to you. No one yelled. No one necessarily insulted me outright, but let's be honest, there was a lot of cuts that were just, you know, hidden. But they just talked longer. They explained slower.
Tracey:They assumed less of me. And guess what? Over time, I kinda started just being like, you know what? I'm not even gonna ask the questions. I'll just figure it out.
Tracey:Maybe I'll find a progressive male someday who will let me ask those questions and a lot of it was like, I started to figure out in the classroom pushing back cost too much and I was getting labeled as someone who needed to get some corrective guidance if I kept this up. So, let's go into story part two. Watching it happen again. So, I mentioned earlier, my husband went to seminary and I kind of expected mansplaining there. Like, let's be honest.
Tracey:It it's an all male place. They get to go to all the classes. A funny story when the first time he we weren't married so he was without me. The second time I went back with him And I learned very quickly as well what my role was if I were to be a pastor's wife. And so I had taken all these theology classes and I thought, would it not be awesome to sit in on some, like, historical?
Tracey:Could it be like cool to sit in on any type of languages? Like, how can I expand my knowledge and be a really great youth minister? Boy, that was the wrong question. Instead, I could take classes like banner making and or how to play the organ and I was like, are you serious? There's so much more to me.
Tracey:So, I mean, I kind of should have figured out that there was going to be some mansplaining there and I knew it but it was next level. Because it wasn't even mansplaining towards me. It started mansplaining towards him. It was like whole new level of something I had never seen. Because it generally shocked some of his peers that he would have intellectual conversations with his wife.
Tracey:Like, full stop. They were shocked. And there was this surprise that like, why are you not managing her? Why do you let her speak up? Why aren't you not correcting her?
Tracey:Why are you not containing this? And his response was always that he respected my intelligence. And he actually was attracted to my intelligence. And that was the twist. We didn't see coming.
Tracey:My husband got mansplained too. Which tells us everything. Because it makes the point that this whole episode is about. It's not just about women being wrong. It's about controlling the room.
Tracey:And there's rarely room for any type of curiosity or mutual exploration or like an actual dialogue. Men have to be the authority. First step. Second step is men have the right to mansplain each other if they've got to correct those men and get them into place. Because authority has to be protected and there is always a line.
Tracey:There is a line being drawn about how far you can go with being smart. How far you can go with asking questions, and how far you can go with having influence. And if you cross it, you are too much, you are too loud, and you have now become a threat. So instead, we learn to nod. We let ourselves get talked over.
Tracey:And we start to understand how the control in the room works. So let's talk about the emotional and even some hormonal cost. So this is what actually happens is being talked over doesn't just interrupt your sentence. It's going to interrupt your self trust in real time. Your nervous system starts predicting it.
Tracey:So now it's on edge. It's waiting. Your body tightens before you even speak. You might be like, I can't swallow. My heart's starting to race.
Tracey:Your voice will soften because do not sound too much. Like, come in soft and and people will listen. And your brain speeds up. It's trying to like, okay, we got like, this normally would take us thirty seconds, but I got ten seconds to make it hit. And then when you still get interrupted, you don't get a chance to respond.
Tracey:Like, you can't even explode or even logically be like, excuse me. Instead, what happens to us is we turn it inward. And then we go back to our desks and we say things like, why didn't I say that better? Why didn't I interrupt back? Why did I freeze?
Tracey:And slowly, we stop saying they don't listen to me. And we start saying things to ourselves instead of, I must not be good at speaking. I must not be good at ideas. I must not be good at executing. And then your body starts learning from that stress to just continue bracing.
Tracey:And we can't separate that from hormone health, what's happening, because the body that never feels safe to take up space is the body that stays on guard. And guarded bodies, they do not regulate well. They do not rest deeply. They do not feel safe expressing their desires. They definitely don't feel like, hey, I'm steady in leadership.
Tracey:I know what I'm doing. So, this isn't even just about meetings. What this starts breaking down into is it's about self trust, the stress load, and living in subtle survival mode. So, let's look at some historical context because this just didn't start in boardrooms. It started centuries ago.
Tracey:So, in many western institutions, men controlled religion, law, science, and even education. And authority was masculine by default. But globally, globally, women were midwives, healers, oral historians, spiritual leaders, community advisors. And when you go and start looking into some African traditions, indigenous communities, Asian cultures, and Latina communities, women carried knowledge systems that were not put in textbooks. But they were being passed down in kitchens, ceremonies, and community circles.
Tracey:And when colonization and patriarchy centralized that power under male authority structures, women's knowledge just it wasn't debated. It was dismissed. It was labeled emotional, unscientific, subversive. So, when men explain things to women, it wasn't called mansplaining. That's just known as order.
Tracey:So later, when women entered universities, pulpits, boardrooms, and legislatures, it was conditional. It was kind of like a we're going to give you a we're going to give you a little bit of space. So, you can be here but do not disrupt and please do not question too directly and do not challenge the hierarchy of this room. So, exclusion evolved into interruption and silencing evolved into correction. And that legacy still shows up in conference rooms, classrooms, and even our dinner tables.
Tracey:So, let's reframe it. Here's the shift. You do not need to become louder versions of men to be heard. The goal is not dominance. And our goal is not performance confidence even.
Tracey:The shift is this, stop interpreting being talked over as a personal failure. It is not that we are incompetent. You have to see it for what it is and that is it is a system that is allowed to operate. And once you see it as a system, you can stop internalizing it. So instead of it being, I need to say this better, it becomes this dynamic is interrupting me.
Tracey:And that awareness gives you a choice. You have a choice to finish your sentence. You have a choice to reenter instead of retreat. And you have a choice to stay present in the room. So, when it happens, you need some, you need some clarity.
Tracey:You need what like, Tracy, what would I say then? Okay, great idea. You want me to keep going? What do I say? You can say things like, I wasn't finished.
Tracey:Pause. Continue. Let me complete my thought. That's actually what I was explaining. I'd like to finish before we move on and you gotta practice those.
Tracey:You gotta say em out loud. Say em in the mirror because the other thing that happens is if like, if you say it, I know y'all can't see me but like if you say it but you're like looking down at the table or shrinking inside yourself, it still doesn't land. So, like if you're looking down and you're you're quiet and you're like, I I'd like to finish before we move on. That's not going to hit versus shoulders back, chin up, mouth open, eyes directed at the room and saying, I'd like to finish before we move on. You see how there's a difference?
Tracey:So, that's our history. That's our conditioning but you can move through it and it only has to be one sentence at a time and I'm not saying the room is going to be like, hold on, everybody. Stop. Did you hear the way Tracy said that? Let's give her the floor.
Tracey:But the more you say it, the more it shows, I'm not going to be quiet. So maybe the first five meetings, it's nothing. But maybe the sixth one, maybe they're starting to fill it a little bit. But even if you can't move it forward, you're doing your body the favor of moving it out, getting that energy, getting the stress. You are getting it out of you so that at least you don't have to carry it.
Tracey:So, let's do some reflection and wrap up for today. So, where do you get talked over the most? Is it at work? Is it in your family? Is it in your friend group?
Tracey:And who do you automatically defer to? Who in the room are you like, oh, they're speaking. Oh, he's here. She's here. I can't say that.
Tracey:When do you stop mid thought without even realizing it? And then afterward, listen to what story are you telling yourself. Are you saying things like I wasn't clear enough? Or could you start saying to yourself that dynamic didn't make space for me? And which one puts responsibility where it belongs?
Tracey:Here's a hint, the second one. So if you practice finishing one sentence this week, just one, where would you start? So women weren't taught to tolerate being talked over because it was polite. They were taught because it kept power predictable. Because women who finished their sentences ask the harder questions.
Tracey:And because women who don't disappear mid thought, they shift dynamics in the room. So what I want you to hear from me today is you are not rude for wanting to be heard. You are not aggressive for staying present. You are not too much for finishing your ideas. You don't need to dominate conversations to matter.
Tracey:You just need to stop leaving them and stop choosing to disappear. Even quietly, even politely, even subtly. Because that's not disrespect, that's self respect. And that is the most unladylike thing of all. Thanks for joining me today for That's Not Very Ladylike.
Tracey:If today's episode lit a fire, pushed your buttons, or called a little BS on the stories we've been sold, share it with another woman who's tired of being told to tone it down, smile more, or play nice, and help a girl out by making sure you subscribe, leave a quick review, and catch me on Instagram at that hormone girl. And until next time, keep getting loud, messy, and raising hell because being ladylike is overrated.