Moving from a physical place to an idea: Lesson from THE Myrna Loy

In this episode, we talk with Krys Holmes Executive Director of The Myrna Loy Center in Helena Montana. The Myrna Loy is one of two rural organization in LANE. Listen to Krys talk about her and the Myrna's experience as the only predominantly white organization inside an initiative the centers racial justice. There is so much to learn.

What is TACtile?

TACtile is the podcast for Leveraging a Network for Equity (LANE) a program of the National Performance Network. This podcast discusses practical tools and concepts designed to transform the field of Arts and Culture towards equity and justice. This podcast is produced by LANE Cohort members, Sage Crump and is edited by Jazz Franklin.

Sage Crump: Thank you for tuning into TACtile, a practical guide to transforming art and culture. This is the podcast of Leveraging a Network for Equity--LANE, a program of the National Performance Network. LANE supports arts organizations of color and rural organizations with time and resources needed to grow their infrastructure in ways that are culturally authentic and moves the field towards justice. I'm your host, Sage Crump, programs specialist for LANE.

Music Introduction: (sung) Keep on a walking. Keep on a talking. Marching up to freedom land. Ain't gonna let no jailhouse turn me around.
SC: Well, this episode, we're really excited to talk to Krys Holmes, who's the executive director of THE Myrna Loy, out of Helena, Montana. The Myrna Loy is a member of our Alpha Cohort, one of the first six organizations that agreed to take this journey, this four year journey called Leveraging a Network for Equity, and so grateful that you made that decision, kinda sight unseen, because it was all so new, and nobody knew, at the time, quite how this thing was going to shake out or shape up. And still you, you decided this felt like important work that you wanted to do. And so, I just wanted to say, Welcome, Krys.
Krys Holmes: Thank you. I'm excited to be doing this with you and excited to tell our story.
SC: One of the things that I always kind of, I like to start this off with is just familiarizing people with THE Myrna Loy, and I keep saying it that way, and you can tell us a little bit about how we got--

KH: Why--

SC: --there.

KH: --why we say it that way.

SC: What--, we know you are in Helena, Montana, but can you tell us a little bit about the Myrna Loy, and what you do there, and how you work with community there.

KH: Yeah, so the Myrna Loy is a culture center and culture driver and art instigator in little Helena, Montana, which is high mountain little town, the third smallest capital city in the nation, nestled in the rocky mountains in the very center of Montana, the heart of Montana. We're a ten hour drive over mountain passes in any direction to the nearest metropolitan area. (2:24) And we like it that way. People here live in the Montana landscape for a reason, but we really, we really serve to bring a lot of cultural activity and artistic events and happenings and, and creative life into this geographically remote area. (2:46) But because the railroad lines were built the way they were across the northern tier, Helena really grew into a culture center from the very beginning, because the northern pacific railroad that, that ran from Minneapolis to Seattle came right through Helena, and this was where they-- , artists who were traveling across the country--, opera singers, circus performers, all kinds--, musicians and vaudeville theater companies would travel across, and Helena was the natural overnight stop, and so they would perform here to earn a little bit of money along the way. So from its very beginning, even from the early years when it was a gold camp, Helena really grew as this culture center in the--, in this remote landscape of Montana. So the Myrna Loy kind of carries on that tradition, and Helena itself is known as this really creative artistic little hub, kind of a little hot spot in the, in the heart of Montana. The Myrna Loy started in the 1970s as an independent film house called Swcond Story Cinema, because it was--. It began in Blanche Judge's dance studio upstairs in an office building in downtown Helena, and they just put in sofas and chairs and that do, you know, reel, reel to reel film house, and showed artistic and alternative films, and independent films, and pretty, pretty quickly after its start began, the organization began also presenting jazz musicians and traveling art shows and, and local arts productions, because that's what's so cool, and it's so interesting, and they wanted to, and by the end of the 890s, they had grown out of this tiny little space and needed a space of their or own.

SC: Mm-hmm.

KH: At the same time, this hundred year old jailhouse county historic county jail , the county had grown out of the jail and had emptied out this , this jailhouse, and it was one of the facilities that the founder, Arnie Molina, and his board were looking at, one of the properties they were looking at, and this became the new home of Second Story Cinema, and so they just gutted the jailhouse, took out the jail cells, and built a 240-seat theater, a proscenium arch backstage with full lights and wings and backstage, and a little 50 seat movie screening room, and offices and dressing rooms and everything. And converted this old historic jailhouse into this arts center, and named it after Myrna Loy, the great socially aware creative beautiful, vibrant actress, because she grew up down the street here. So--

SC: Wow.

KH: --the Myrna Loy is named after Myrna Loy with her blessing and her name, she gave us her name and her image to use as this arts center, and she's actually buried down the street in Helena. (6:22) In her hometown. So, you know, this is kind of this, this amazing little place grew up in Helena to serve, to serve this community that is way out here in the middle of nowhere, where people have, over time developed a tremendous appetite for the arts and for cultural engagement that we wouldn't be able to have if we didn't travel many, many hours, and that’s the role of the Myrna Loy.

SC: That's pretty amazing. One of the reasons why I love doing this podcast and talking to you all like this is I learn new things every single time. Like, I think that's the first time. I-I think a lot about geography and am always interested in, like, how something became something, so this story about the railroad and how artists would stop and perform there and that's how they made a little bit of money, that’s--that's just interesting to me. I hope that’s interesting to other people listening, but it's interesting to me. Because it says a lot about the soil that the Myrna Loy is planted in.

KH: Yeah.

SC: So, thank you for sharing that.

KH: Well, I think it's so interesting across the country how geography and history shapes everything. There is this Why behind, why are these people here? Why is this cult--. Why did this culture arise here, or, or maintain here? And what makes us who we are? And in this day and age, when you know, we kind of --, it's easy to lose that story, lose the trails of those stories, but everywhere that we are, our roots go back into, you know, geography and transportation and people's everyday decisions about why they do what they do, and there's a reason we're all here. Each one of us in our story, and I love that.

SC: That's--. I love that, too. And I love how that makes me think about the relationship between the past, present and the future. Right, like, the, the, the ways in which something has grown, the soil in which it's planted. Also says a lot about its sense of possibility. And I'm--I, we often start the, the podcast, TACtile, asking our brilliant leaders this first question: How do you imagine change happens, Krys? (8:48)

KH: I feel like change happens with the stories that we tell. I think our lives are shaped so deeply by the stories we tell about who we are, the kind of people we are, where we came from, where we're going, what happened to us, and how we respond to what happens to us. And I think we can see that in our political situation today, like, what are the stories we are telling about ourselves, and a lot of the conflicts that arise in every situation are conflicts between the story you tell about who you are and who you need to be, and the story that I'm telling myself about who you might be, who I am. So, I see change happening in that fundamental way of how we tell our stories about who we are and how we got here and where we're going. In this LANE program, I think the genius about this LANE program as we experienced it was that it really gave us this, this opportunity, but also this pressure to, this requirement that we dig into what is the story of the Myrna Loy in our, in our world today, and how can we influence that story and also, how can we challenge our assumptions about that story? (10:25) Is that really the fullest story you're gonna tell? Is that really who we are? What if it were a bigger story? And we came into this, you know, as you know, we came into the LANE program as kind of a traumatized organization. We had gone through some transitions as an organ--, as all non-profits do, all arts centers do. We went through, kind of, some rocky transitions financially and, and from a leadership standpoint. And we--, so we entered into the LANE program thinking, We are troubled, we're in trouble, we're struggling, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna face our struggles? And being in, being in this process with you and with all the participants, helped us to really delve into that story and change it so that we weren't this troubled, traumatized organization, but we were resilient. We found our strengths. We found our ways of telling who we are in a vibrant and active and creative way. And it completely in that, in that simple, radical way, I think transformed the organization into a, a place of health and vibrancy and optimism and excitement. So I think change happens through the way we tell our stories.

SC: Mm. Thank you for that. I think that that's amazing to hear, cause one of the things that we wanted to be really intentional about in the development of LANE is the recognition of you all as leaders. Not that we're coming in as--, that LANE is a process that comes in to, to save anyone. (12:26) It just comes into amplify, because you wouldn't still be around if you hadn't figured out something, right?

KH: Right.

SC: You, you know, and, and what you're framing around the, the story is--. The individual organizations have one story, the network, even the National Performance Network, the connections of that, have a story. and then, there's a larger story of the field and then, as you mentioned, the world we live in. And so, it's so easy to get focused on your, your own personal story, in a way that feels shaming. And, and, and problematic. And when we have an opportunity to, kind of, step back a little bit, we get to see how there are all these other mechanisms at play that are impacting what I call survival decision that people are making that may have short term gains, but not long term benefits. and like, how--. and--, but felt like the, like, out of the idea of how many choices do we actually have? (13:29) You know. And this reframe that you're talking about that, that you've taken hold of, and the tagline, like, See Leaders Make Change, enables you to, to have conversations in your communities and outside of your communities from a level of peers, like. And--. I would love to hear a little bit about--. So during this time in LANE, and I always feel like I know so much more than the people who are listening to this would. So I get to ask these questions.

KH: What are they talking about?

SC: You've gone through--. You went through a pretty intense, like, community conversation process.

KH: Yeah.

SC: And, again, going back to this idea of Helena being a place that is--, has a rich history around art, culture, performance, presenting; can you talk about what made it important as you all were going through the process that you included the community voice, and how you did it, and what became the, the ripples from it or the ramifications of those, those conversations.

KH: Yeah. We are in a, you know, in this economy that we're in, it's a pretty low, a pretty steady, slow, low level economy, so most--, a lot of the, you know, this is the capital, so there's a lot of state workers, and they don't get much of a raise over time, and we don't have a lot of wealth here in central Montana, and so that sense of economic struggle really, we all, we all kind of share that, like, how are we gonna--. How are we gonna get through our economic struggles is a, a big part of our conversation statewide everywhere. But we don't have wealth. We don't have wealth in pockets and wallets, but our wealth is in our relationships. We have the kind of town where I can call up the mayor and ask him to come introduce a show because it's so great. I have--. We have people who have been engaged and involved in the Myrna Loy for years and years and years because it's a small town and people really, really care about what we're doing, and this is a part of our learning to tell our story. (16:07) You know, we're not this financially impoverished arts center. We are a socially wealthy arts center.

SC Yeah.

KH: Recognizing that that's where our wealth lies--in relationships, made it suddenly and immediately obvious to us that that's where we need to go to draw on intelligence and input and to build up this sense of, of, you know, we're not an arts organization that is on the verge of falling apart like we thought we were. Let's change that conversation to invite the community into dreaming about the future. What do you wanna see? You as our community, what do you wanna see the Myrna Loy become? How can we, as the staff and team on the Myrna, serve the community better? What do you need the Myrna Loy to be? And that conversation was so powerful, but it was so important that we held it, because we felt, I think as a staff, we're on our own, we have to bail the boat, we have to paddle the boat, we have to do everything ourselves, and people who are, I think, traumatized, or in a, in a traumatic situation organizationally, tend to feel like, This is our problem, and we gotta solve it.

SC: And don't let them know. Don't let people know.

KH: And don't let them know, cause they're so--. There is that bit of shame, like, well, maybe we deserve to be in this place of poverty. But shifting that around to say, Nope. We're all in this together. We have this amazing treasure in the--, in the community that is our arts center. Wherever, whatever community you're in, and recognizing for it, for the treasure that it is, how can we, how can this treasure serve the community more? that was--. That was the transformative moment in this project for change. Because we got a--. We got a tremendous, you know, response from the community for a town our size, you know. And you were there, like, 55 people came in on a February Saturday, when it was, like, 20 degrees, you know, and spent their Saturdays, their Saturday, imagining and growing the Myrna: We would like to see it move and grow in this direction, and we'll give this amount of energy to it. (18:43) That conversation was so powerful for both the staff, I think, and the community. Because they also could see us as this responsive, creative force that, that was gonna help our town become a better town. So it was kinda at the heart of everything.

SC: It was beautiful being there. It was. Yeah. As someone who doesn't go outside in cold weather, it was so impressive to see folks coming out, and I just have memories of people on their feet and moving around the room, and the level of chatter and conversation that was happening, and the energy of it, was really, was really inspiring and exciting. I could see how that translated into the work that you all moved towards. Going back to your original response around change and story, it was both: you're telling the story and then you are inviting all of these folks to help build and also be able to tell your story along with you. That felt like such a smart choice for you all to make, and the transparency with which you engage folks. (20:06) And, like, the honesty of, like, this is where we are, this is what we're thinking of, this is what we have. And, and we're proud. You know, is, is a really, was really special. Really special. I know that--. So, talking about the community, it probably would be no surprise for folks, for me to say on this call that Helena, Montana is a predominantly white community.

KH: Yes.

SC: Would, would, would that be correct to say?

KH: 94% white across the state of Montana. Even though we have seven Indian reservations and quite a number of people who are not white, and our mayor is actually a Liberian refugee immigrant, so, not everybody is white, but yes. We are white.

SC: (both laugh). You're like, not everybody, but, you know. So I, I, I--. One of the things I have really appreciated about you personally, and the way the Myrna has engaged in LANE, is we do a lot of conversation around systemic oppressions, racial justice, cultural equity. And I know there are spaces in which folks who run predominantly white organizations, or, or even in communities, they're like, I--. And, I know this for a fact because we've, we've had some conversations even within the network, they're like, I don't know where I fit into this conversation. I don't--. You're talking about racial justice, or racial injustice, or white supremacy, and it makes me uncomfortable, and I don't know how to engage in that, but you have, have walked through, both personally and within the organization, hand and hand through this conversation these last four years. Is there anything you would share with folks about that journey?

KH: Yeah, I feel like it's a really important part of the journey, and it's so easy to say, Well, a lot of those racial discussions don't really apply to us because we don't have a large community of people of color. (22:17) Or, we don't have a large community of immigrants, or whatever you wanna say to convince yourself that, Well, we're just 94% white, and that's the way it is. But you gotta dig a little bit deeper, and one of the--. So, we look at it from two different--. I look at it from two different perspectives. One is that in a, in a place that is predominantly white, clearly you have to look around and say, Gee. It wasn't always like this. What happened? The, you know, 200 years ago Montana was not predominantly white. What happened? And you have to carry that story with you every single day. 75 years ago, Montana had tremendous cultural diversity. We had 40 Black social clubs and 12 Black churches in Helena, Montana. We had a Jewish synagogue that was very active. We had a Chinatown downtown. We had a lot of--. Montana was--. Because of the copper mines and the railroads, Montana was a magnet for many, many different cultures, Chinese and Japanese and European and African. A lot of the freed slaves after the Civil War came out to Montana to participate in the Gold rush, because it was the very--, at the very same time. What happened? So, you have to look at the race policies that were, have been in play after--, through all those years, and that is a very long story. I could talk about that forever. But there is a reason why Montana ended up to be predominantly white. We can't just say, well this is the way it is, and this is how we're gonna move forward. You gotta-. You gotta hold that story, and you have to tell those stories. We have a responsibility to tell those stories and to carry that with us as we go forward. The other--. The other--. Another way that I think about it is, we are predominantly white, but we have people of color, like every community everywhere. (24:45) There are children in our schools that are from every culture in the world. How are they seeing their identity reflected in what they see? It is the responsibility of the Myrna Loy to bring in artists of many, many cultures and many, many colors, so that these kids can see themselves and their own identity reflected on stage in celebrated ways, in a number of different ways, as teachers and leaders and performers and filmmakers, so that these people in our, in our schools and in our community get to have the full experience. It's also our responsibility to, to reflect into our little white town the, the cultural personality of the world, of the whole world. And of our nation as a whole, so that we don't get too insulated and too parochial. And how are we serving the Native American community? How are we serving the African American community? How are we serving the Mexican American community, or the--. We're just getting a new refugee tonight, flying in, who just received asylum status from Uganda. And he went through this horrible long story that took him through Europe and across, and he came up from, through Mexico, into the, into the border from Mexico, and because there is a woman here in Helena who helped him get his asylum status, he's arriving on the plane tonight, as--, you know, this will be his first night in the United States of America, and it will be in Helena, Montana. How are we gonna serve him and help him? I feel like as creative artists, this is what we do. This is our privilege and our art form, and our responsibility to kind of burst through those boundaries and, and celebrate all of our deepest humanity in whatever shape and form that takes. And I love that about art, that's why I'm in the arts field, and I'm excited about doing that, and I feel like, when you're in a mostly white society, that is the role you play, and I love that about what we get to do.

SC: And you were telling me a little bit about--, you brought a little bit of Detroit to the Myrna Loy, or, to, to, to Helena the other day.

KH: Yes. Oh my gosh, we had this party a couple of nights ago. The fabulous Thornetta Davis, who is the official blues queen of Motown flew over here. She just came off a tour in Italy, came home to Detroit, flew to Helena, Montana, gave one concert, and then off to Calgary and that was it. That was her concert on this spin through the American West, and she had us all dancing on our feet and singing and she brought this, you know, there is nothing like the Motown blues, and she brought that into our arts center for this tremendous moment that people are still riding high on, all of us. And, and 200 people from around our town of, you know, 30,000 people. That is a big party, that is a huge gift, to bring that into our community.

SC: That sounds, sounds amazing. It sounds like a party. I wanted to be there. And it is such an example of, of what you're talking about around the whole story.

KH: You know, someone like Thornetta Davis can come and do a concert here and it might in some small way push some Montanans idea of who, who is us. (28:56) And who is not us. And if we can move that boundary just a little bit, then, you know, that's kind of what it's all about, right?

SC: Yeah. That's what it's all about, and I just wanna talk about that I think, I think that's, that's a space of risk and a space of bravery and courage, so thank you, because I think there are a lot of folks out there that would just say, Okay. Lemme just do what they tell me to do. Let me just--. People that look like us. So it is no small thing, and I'm saying this to you, and for whomever might be listening, particularly folks who don't work in the arts, it's like, no small thing to do the type of programming that you're doing. And that you are doing it with such an incredible level of success, says so much to folks that can't hold the type of vision about what's possible for their own communities. And, and like you said, why we're in this field and why we do what we do. And I think a part of that, this idea of why we do what we do, is also getting me to this side joke we're sort of making, emphasizing on the, THE Myrna Loy.

KH: Yes. THE Myrna Loy.

SC: THE Myrna Loy. Because it's also, what you're talking about is how you have positioned the, the programming, but you also did some work in the last few years to align how people think about you.

KH: Yeah.

SC: To the, to, to connect that. Connect the programming to the way folks think about the institution. (30:23) Can you talk a little bit about that identity process?

KH: Yeah, so one of the things that participation in the LANE program challenged us to do was to look at the role that we play in the community and who we really are. And, and we found that we were limited by this image the community had that the Myrna Loy Center, which is what our name has been since we moved into this jail, the Myrna Loy Center was a place where you come and see a concert or go to a film. Or go to a special event. But we were doing all these other things. We were taking artists out into the community to do, to do pop ups and happenings. We have a tremendously robust arts education program that brings visiting artists into the schools, so you know, kids could learn how to improvise from this, you know, world renowned jazz artist. We have a team of teaching artists here who go into the school for longer residencies to teach kids who are in the challenged, who are challenged by psychiatric and physical, physiological, emotional, all, all different kinds of challenges, skills in improv, so if you don't present as this confident, you know, really successful person, what if you improv'd to pretend you were that person? And it's building life skills into these students. We have all these things going on that were outside of the story of, Come to the Myrna Loy to see a movie. Come to the Myrna Loy to see a concert. How are we gonna re-envision ourselves a--, you know, to include that fuller story? And what we came to was, we're not a center that, that Helena comes to, we are a force and an instigator in the community, so we decided to change our name from Myrna Loy Center--. Actually our legal name was Myrna Loy center for the Performing and Media Arts, like, Blehhh. (32:52) Into The Myrna Loy, and we use it as a verb. Like, we are a force in the community, so that identity rebrand really fired a lot of changes throughout the organization that, you know, we decided, we changed our signage, we changed our, our public image, we revamped our website completely to tell this story of The Myrna Loy as a force in the community, and I've been out there giving speeches and going to Rotary and all that, you know, about, about, we have this, this dynamo that is this really active force in the community, and it's--, in some ways it's a subtle change to The Myrna Loy Center to THE Myrna Loy. In some ways it's a dramatic change from The Myrna Loy Center for the Performing and Media Arts to THE Myrna Loy, and all the things that that means. So, you know, kind of circling back to what, what change is and how change has happened through the LANE program, sometimes it's these little one degree shifts that turn out to be a sixty degree change after time goes by, because we've gone in this new direction that has really made the Myrna Loy into a better, stronger, more powerful organization. (34:22)

SC: That's amazing. I think if folks ever wanted a tangible explanation of emergence, you just gave them one, right? Like, these small shifts can have such a large impact.

KH: Yeah.

SC: Moving forward, that's--. I'm gonna hold onto that. Because I just enjoy saying, THE Myrna Loy, and there is a gravitas that you don't, don't--, you hold when you say it that is also a part of the way you reframe the story like you--. The internal story from, from financial trauma to, like, We, we are a force, is the arc that you have grown over the, over these last few years. It's not just the changes internally, but you've taken those changes internally, and that has impacted how you talk about The Myrna Loy externally, and encouraging other people to see it differently. And one of the things that you said during NPN annual conference in Pittsburgh, which we recorded that then became The first, The--. Now I'm like, THE.

KH: Right!

SC: First episode of TACtile. Is that the shifts required something new of you as a leader within the organization.

KH: Yeah.

SC: And would you mind talking a little about that? Cause I think this idea of, like, we can--, we can policy and procedure our way into difference or change, particularly into transformation.

KH: Yeah, so. For my personal story, because this is all about stories, I was a former employee of the Myrna Loy, I worked for the previous executive director, and then, kind of, after ten years got burnt out and went off and did my own thing for a while. Came back as a former employee to sit on the board of directors. When I worked here before, people would ask me, so, do you wanna be the new Ed Noonan? He was the previous executive director. You know, are you jonesing for his job? And I would say, Oh gosh, no, you know, I would never want that job. And I would be terrible at it. And so, in, in this moment when the Myrna Loy was in a really difficult spot and Ed was retiring, and there were a number of different things that were going on. (36:59) As a board member, I, I decided, well, I'll step in and just kind of help through this transition. The important thing about that is I never saw myself as the ED of an arts organization. I never cultivated a career as an arts administrator. So, when I came into this job as executive director or, sorry, my new title is Executive Diva.

SC: Nice.Nice.

KH: I--. I didn't see myself as a very strong or experienced leader in all of this. And I was a little bit trepidatious about--. I knew the Myrna Loy. I know Helena Montana. I know arts, and I have a lifetime in the arts, but arts administration, I wasn't so confident about. So, part of this journey has been my not only figuring out how to navigate what it takes to be the--, a strong executive director of the Myrna Loy, but also realizing, in the first couple years, I figured out how to be the executive director of that Myrna Loy, and I realized I had to grow to become the director of the new Myrna Loy that we had all envisioned together. And growing as a person, as, as an artist, as a leader, as a--, collaborator on this team, what do I need to do as my own humanity to become a leader in this Myrna Loy. And that was a really big thing. It was--. It's kind of letting go of where you are now. Like, that moment of the trapeze artist, letting go of the bar you're swinging on to reach the bar you're flying for is a, is a big thing. And I feel like the LANE program made me let go of that bar and fly over here to the new bar, and I love that about the way the LANE program is structured, because it made me do it.

SC: Mm. Well, I'm glad you feel good about that part. (laugh)

KH: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SC: And, and, there was a bar to meet you when you, when you reached out. Cause I think that that's a really beautiful analogy.

KH: Yeah. How do I be brave enough to embody what I envision so then my staff can begin to embody that, too, my team can begin to embody it, and as we do that, then the community comes along, too. But you can't be the last one to do it. The leader can't be the last one. That happens in politics, but it doesn't happen in arts centers.

SC: (laughs). Oh no. So true.

KH: Oh no. (both laugh)

SC: So one of the things that in, in the swinging, and I love the space in between the two bars.

KH: Yeah.

SC: You all turned over your space, and when I say turned over, I mean, through the work with the community, through the--, in revisioning, or envisioning process, some things, some new things around how your physical space looks changed. And I'm curious about how that--the what the physical changes were, I think would be helpful for people to hear, but also how those physical changes impact the culture of a place.

KH: Yeah. It's one of those things that feels to me like a, a two degree change at the beginning that became this larger change, so one of the things that we always struggled with when I worked here before was, How are we gonna get butts in the seats? You know, how are we gonna get people into our space? In this community conversation that we had when you were here, we learned that people really want to come here. They think having an arts center in a formal jail is really, really cool. But we look at our space and, you know, jails are not really built for community gatherings. They're built to separate people. And we have a very awkward, L-shaped lobby area that does not promote flow or community or anything. And because we're a movie house, we have this little concession area down at the end of one of the parts of the L. We do have a beer and wine license, which is really cool, so people wanted to spend more time here, but the space was awkward. We had you know, like, folding chairs lined up against the wall so it kind of looked like an old Greyhound bus station with a movie popcorn place at the end. What can we do to invite people to hang out here and find community here and come talk about the films, have book club here, join together as community, even within the limitations of this space, and every arts center has its limitations. Everybody's--, everybody's different, and that's one really cool thing I've learned in our cohort, looking at everybody's different limitations. So ours is this, this jail that we're in. So, we really focused on turning our lobby area into a pub, and we built tables using historic wood from--, reclaimed wood from a historic building down the street, and the table legs are made out of our old jail bars. And so, we put in benches and tables and we revamped the lobby area and we hired a pub manager who's a chef, who can make light bites and food that we can produce here in our limited kitchen area. We did new signage. We redesigned the lobby area to be this kind of hangout pub space. And lo and behold, people start coming just to hang out, drink beer, have a glass of wine, hold their little book clubs, hold their hiking clubs, you know, I'll meet you--. Sage, come down and meet me at the pub for an hour before the concert, and let's just hang out and have, have our light bites here and then we'll go to the concert. And it has turned into one of those things that it, it was a small investment and a small change in how we do things, but it has turned, you know, it has grown into this big change for the Myrna Loy. (44:17) A big change in how people see our space and use our space. So we have wedding receptions and funerals here and book clubs and you know, different groups that, that come together and we have Friday afternoon matinees. There's one going on right now downstairs. And we have this one guy who comes now every Friday at 3:30 to have his Friday afternoon beer here at the Myrna Loy. Just one guy, but it is so cool. We love seeing him every week because he wants to sit at these tables that have--. And he has family members who spent time in the jail here when it was a jail. So, it means a lot to him. You know, our motto is, Art transforms everything. A jailhouse, a place of anguish and solitude and fear and isolation can become this place of community and laughter and joy and light. So, we've really made that happen through our, our little pub project, which, you know, seemed like kind of a small thing but it turned out to be a big thing.

SC: I think one of the things that I--for folks who are listening, as you're referencing the Myrna Loy as a previous jailhouse, you also had some elders who--. I don't know if this was pre--, some indigenous elders who also came, and sort of cleared the space--. I don't know if that was before your tenure or doing or--. You know, cause I'd imagine there are folks who are like, Oooh, oh no. So there's--, that you all have been so intentional about transforming the space that you were aware that the energetic and spiritual cleansing of the space was as important as--.

KH: Yeah. They came and did a smudge ceremony when the space was being transformed from a jail to the Myrna Loy. (46:12) So, embedded in that transformation was this ceremony that cleanses the space as, you know, smudging with sage or sweetgrass actually physiologically removes impurities from the air, and, in the spiritual life of the Myrna Loy, embedded the organization in this foundation of, of transformation and sacredness that we, we, we recognize this is a sacred, brave space. People died here. We have stories of the place where our pub is right now was the courtyard of the prison where people were hanged. People lost their lives in this building, and, and we take that sense of transformation into life and creativity and community very seriously, and it's something that I tell all of our artists when they are performing here. You are on a stage that was built to be a stage added on to the prison. But where the auditorium is, were two stories of cell blocks where people suffered. People were not happy, and that's where the audience is laughing and singing and receiving and participating in your art, and it's a huge part of what we are all doing. I feel like that is the transformative power of art in all of us. I'm not able to corroborate it, but I have heard from one historian that the jail cells that were built in this 1894 jail were built from decommissioned iron cell block bars, decommissioned from slave ships, that were sent up the Missouri river on the barges and brought down here to build our jail. I don't know if that is true, and we have not been able to completely corroborate it. Because of the timing, I wouldn't doubt it, but that is extremely powerful to me that, that, that all, all of these stories throughout American and the whole story of the United States of America--, it's all intertwined, you can't get away from it, we have to be participants in that transformation. We have to, and we have the power of art. Art is the only thing that tis a big enough container for all of those stories and for all of that to live together, and to me, that's the blues, that's why Thornetta Davis here was so great, because it is the darkness and the light all together in that life that art offers us.

SC: Mm-hmm. Thank you so much for that . You know, you can't transform if you're not honest about the past.

KH: Right.

SC: You know. And, and you have been, and you are, and, and how thoughtful that is inside of your programming. Thank you so much for this conversation, Kryss.

KH:But we wouldn't have been able to be this thoughtful and take this time with it if it hadn't been for the LANE program. That is such a miracle and the genius of this program.

SC: Thank you for listening. Funding support for LANE is provided by the Andrew W. Mellon foundation. You can find more information about LANE and the amazing organizations involved on the NPN website. www.npnweb.org. This episode was co edited by Amanda Banskston and Monica Tyran. jazz franklin is our podcast editor, and sound design by muthi reed. (50:19)