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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Ep. #196: Cohiba Siglo II (w/ Domaine Sigalis Santorini Assyrtiko 2020, Two Firsts: A Box Code Revisit and a Non-Sparkling White Pairing, Retail Lounge Hospitality, Festival del Habano ’26, Cohiba’s 60th, Lizards on Patreon? and Freezing Cuban Cigars)
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Gizmo: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love and premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Pagoda, chef Ricky, and bam bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some white wine, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 196th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge. Lizard plan. Lemme just here once a week. We're gonna smoke a cupid cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We revisit tonight's cigar in a brand new way. We review our first ever non bubbly white wine pairing, and we discuss the sometimes lack of hospitality at retail lounges, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair the 2020 vintage Domaine Sigalis Santorini Assyrtiko with the Cohiba Siglo two, a petite Corona on the [00:01:00] pod tonight from Cuba. And it's a redux, bam. Mm-hmm. It's the Cohiba Siglo two. It's 42 ring gauge cigar by five and one eighths inches long. And boys, tonight is a night of firsts. Correct. And this cigar, actually, you know what, let me, lemme set it up with a clip.
Lemme set it up with a clip. All right. From episode 24. I can't wait to see what this same cigar outta these same boxes is like in two to three years. So I think that's something to look forward to. Yeah. I'm gonna keep a bunch of these well done for us on the pod. We're gonna do them again in, in a couple years and we'll see how they compare to right now.
And, and that'll be an interesting,
Senator: uh, and gives, I I, I'll also have to say and give credit here, I mean I think, you know, I was very skeptical about this cigar ly 'cause before Gizmo, you know, provided these, tonight I was categorical. I was out on cohiba, like I had no interest in smoking. Cohiba, same here, same here.
Not that I think they make bad cigars or anything like that, it's just not what I want.
Gizmo: So there we go. Very [00:02:00] forward thinking. A clip from episode 24, 3 and a half years ago, boys, that feels, and actually I, I only really kept the senator part in 'cause he was giving me credit. I could have clipped that, but Correct.
A rare occurrence. I wanted it, I wanted to keep that in just for posterity sake. Yes, there you go. So I want to tell everyone that we are smoking the exact same box code that we smoked on episode 24 UAO August, 2019. 2019. These cigars have almost six years on them. Wow. At this point, did they
Pagoda: smell this funky back then?
Chef Ricky: This would be a true testament to how your humid error is.
Bam Bam: Correct. We shall see.
Gizmo: So I've had a lot of listeners who've asked, Hey, why don't you review the same, you know, run of cigars as you're doing these redux, you're doing newer runs of cigars that didn't rate well. I think Cohiba is an outlier in. The way that people are willing to, to put them down for long periods of time because of the cost there.
So, you know, this is a $40 effectively petite Corona we have in our hand. [00:03:00] So I think it's worth trying that same exact run, that same exact box code 172 episodes later. That price makes me cringe. It's crazy. You're holding two $20 bills in your hand right now. Unbelievable.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. It's not a value stick at all.
Gizmo: But it wasn't that price in 2019. It wasn't. No it wasn't. It was significantly less. 16. Yeah, it was probably, it was probably closer to Yes. Yeah. 16, 18 you believe. Wow. Maybe even less. Alright boys, let's cut this thing. See what we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. The COHEs two here. First things first, the foot smells amazing.
Senator: Bam. How's the foot?
Bam Bam: Well, you know, funny you should say that. I'm getting a little nutmeg. Really? Just a touch of nutmeg on the foot.
Gizmo: I'm
Bam Bam: getting
Gizmo: that barnyard thing.
Bam Bam: Yeah, I'm getting barnyard. Barnyard, nutmeg. Little funk for me.
Gizmo: Little
Bam Bam: funk. Little honey though.
Gizmo: There's a sweetness there. I'm getting some honey.
Yeah, [00:04:00] but the cold draw.
Bam Bam: Creamy honey for me. I'm
Rooster: getting the honey on the cold draw. Yes, me too
Bam Bam: Cream honey. Yeah, and maybe a faint almond. Yeah. Cream honey.
Pagoda: Almond oats. That's what I'm getting here. Oh yeah. Good decorat. It's a good call out.
Gizmo: It's a good cereal. I'm getting hit with a lot of sweetness on the cold draw here.
I hope we're in for a treat. Maybe it's sweet tipped, like last week's saka. Otherwise, you'll, you won't hear the end of it. All right, boys, let's light this thing. The Cohiba Siglo two from Cuba. Again, it's a 42 ring gauge petite Corona by five and one eight inches long. Its factory name is the Ravis, and again, the box code on this is UAO August, 2019, the exact same code and sister box of cigars.
I bought them both at the same time that we smoked three and a half years ago on episode 24.
Bam Bam: That is [00:05:00] scrumptious off the light. Delicious. No gentlemen waiting. It's outstanding.
Gizmo: Oh wow. That's excellent. That is excellent.
Bam Bam: And honestly, the smoke output right away is, yeah, the combustion's very good. Very good.
Combustion, you know, it's fuller flavor than I imagined it
Pagoda: would. Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Yeah. This isn't as mild as I thought it was gonna come on.
Bam Bam: Correct. There's, there's a lot of flavor here.
Gizmo: It's been a while since I've had a signal or two, but this is definitely more sophisticated and better, you know, much more well-rounded than the last time I smoked this, which has gotta be a couple years.
Chef Ricky: Well, just after the first puff, I feel like this is gonna smoke very quick. Bettering the smoke up, it's fantastic. It's, yeah, it'll require have,
Gizmo: we're have to take our time to slow this down 'cause this is just over five inches long tonight. Getting a slight ri mm-hmm. And fruit on the aroma for me. I'm getting a mustiness smelling the head of the cigar where you draw from.[00:06:00]
Bam Bam: Mm.
Senator: Senator, what do you think? I'm, I'm just surprised this is not what I expected this to smoke like, but I actually really like the flavor I'm getting. The funny thing is there's a lot of flavor, but it, it's very easygoing. It's not like it's, uh, it's nice, you know, fuller in strength or anything like that.
And, uh, I kinda like that there's a seemingly nice balance between the sweet notes that you get and, um, some like brighter notes, like the kind of cohiba grassiness like you get a little bit of in the background there. Um, so I like it so far. Just surprised.
Bam Bam: The retro hills outstanding right now. Um, I'm getting like graham cracker, a little honey and cream on the retro.
Gizmo: Oh yeah. Graham cracker's there for show the graham cracker That'ss unique there. Yeah, that, that, that kind of bake and sweetness in the retro hale, you don't get that a lot
Bam Bam: and there's, it seems [00:07:00] aged. You get that age effect on the retro hale when you get that biscuity funky type
Senator: thing happening. For me, the graham cracker thing is accurate, which bizarre is, I've never gotten that note on a cohiba before.
That's true. Very true.
Gizmo: I don't ever, I don't ever remember calling out that kind of sweetness in the retro hale.
Bam Bam: Ted, what are you thinking?
Rooster: I think there's a little bit of spice too. It's like creamy honey balanced with a little bit of spice that you don't really get on lot of Cobas.
Bam Bam: No. Would you say it's a white pepper?
'cause there's a little bit of that happening. Yes. Just a touch of it. That's, that's what
Pagoda: made me sneeze. There's a sharpness here that's catching me off guard here a little. It's definitely sharp. There's a little bit,
Bam Bam: yeah. But in a, I think a very pleasant way.
Pagoda: Yeah. No, I'm not bothered by it. I'm just surprised because this isn't something I've come to expect from Cohiba.
Bam Bam: This whole thing is a surprise right now. I'm very happy about that. Yeah. In a good way. For
Rooster: me, the surprise part is that it's a little bit fuller than I expected that it would be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And for especially this size of a cigar mm-hmm. I thought it would be a lot milder. [00:08:00] But it's a good, it's a, it's a pretty medium smoke right now.
Chef Ricky: I tried retro hailing twice and you know, graham crackers definitely right there. Yeah. Are you getting a little saltiness
Senator: now? Yes, a little bit. I was just
Gizmo: gonna say on the front of my tongue, I'm i's tingling a little. I don't wanna say it's that mono Cristo twang that we've always talked about. It's, it's different.
But there is a twang here that's just unique to salty minerality that I'm getting
Bam Bam: like on the side of my palate. But right at the tip of your, on the sides of your, like the front of your tongue is where I'm right on
Gizmo: the front of my tongue. I'm usually,
Bam Bam: I'm getting up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Very good.
Gizmo: Well, it's off to a nice start here, boys.
Correct. So the Siglo two comes in a couple different. Packaging varieties we're smoking out of a varnished slide lid box of 25 cigars. They have a display box of 15 aluminum tubo, five cardboard packs of three that was released in 2008. And there's a display box of 25 cigars in five cardboard packs of five.
So what's nice about this is you don't have to invest in a box per se. You can buy [00:09:00] the three, two BO pack, or you can buy a single Fiverr in most retail shops. You don't have to invest the thousand dollars that this box is commanding right now. You can try these cigars for a lot less.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: So we've talked about the CILO series before, boys, because we've done quite a few of them at this point.
I think the only ones that we haven't done are the SIG of three and the sig of four. So the Linea 1492 wine was launched in 1992 to commemorate the 500th anniversary of Columbus's arrival to the New World to Cuba. The name Sigal obviously means century in Spanish. Each cigar one through five is meant to represent one of those five centuries in between, you know, Columbus arriving and 1992.
And then of course the sigal of six was added in 2002. So that rounds out the line. If you want some more history on Cohiba. We've done a ton of Cohiba content on the podcast. I'll go through the ratings later, um, including a sig, a two on episode [00:10:00] 24. But, uh, yeah. Tune into one of those episodes if you're interested in that.
Bam Bam: I, I gotta say, I'm surprised at how much smoke I'm getting out of this little cigar. It is a little powerhouse right now. It really is,
Senator: isn't it? And the construction is just generally great. Yeah. Everyone's looks like there's this burning evenly. Yeah. And like you said, you get a lot of smoke output for such a small ring age.
It's insane. Is this same size as Amadi four, correct?
Gizmo: Yes. Monte four is
Chef Ricky: also a vus. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think we finished, we wrapped this up in half hour. You got a hot date tonight? I'll be honest. For
Gizmo: 40 bucks in this cigar. I'm gonna try to take my time tonight. Oh, me too. And I'm also finding that the, the finish is really lingering.
Mm-hmm. They were very low. There's a sweetness in that finish and it just kind of stays on your palate. I agree. It doesn't run too fast.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. You know what's interesting is I was having a cigar before. I know. It's, uh, BA's uh, FAPA
Gizmo: sacrilege.
Chef Ricky: No, absolutely. But it just came and just overtook the whole flavor [00:11:00] profile.
Just completely changed it. Surprising. Very, very good. Very good.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Chef Ricky: Long lasting finish really like it.
Pagoda: Did you guys find it this full on the first go round?
Gizmo: No,
Pagoda: no,
Gizmo: no. I, I think the finish was weak. Um, you know, obviously revisiting this cigar, if this cigar rated a nine plus, I wouldn't have wanted to go back to revisit it.
Obviously it did not reach that, and that I think was the point of saying, Hey, you know, this is gonna taste pretty good in a few years. And I think so far off the light here, it's the case. I do have some notes of what we said on that earlier episode that I can read. I, I have the transcript. Yeah, but you know, it definitely wasn't the case.
Anything close to this?
Bam Bam: No, this is very impressive.
Gizmo: So, because this cigar is so small, I think we would be remiss to not move to the pairing ASAP tonight.
Bam Bam: Thank you.
Gizmo: And start [00:12:00] sipping this wine because this is not a long cigar. It's not a double Corona Churchill, et cetera. So Senator, please tell us what we have in our glass tonight. So we have
Senator: our first white wine a night, a night of firsts on the pod.
There you go. Right. Nons Sparkling. Uh, also our first Greek wine on the podcast. Very exciting. Again, a night of firsts. And so we have domain Sigal Aerco, uh, 2020. I had this when I visited Santorini in 2021. Absolutely fell in love with it, bought many cases of it, and I'm down to my final case and I brought a couple bottles here for us to enjoy.
Can I drink it now? Absolutely. Alright. Cheers boys. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers boys.
Chef Ricky: What a pleasant summer evening, right?
Gizmo: Wow. Fantastic Senator. That is awesome.
Bam Bam: Look, I have to tell you, it, it's, I've only [00:13:00] had a couple of sips that were only, what, three eighths of an inch into the cigar, but the saltiness and minerality in the cigar pairing beautifully with the wine that we're drinking right up front and the, from the, from the beginning in the middle of the tongue.
Great pairing.
Pagoda: Yeah,
Bam Bam: delicious.
Pagoda: There's a creamy is saltiness to this wine as well that pair amazingly well with the cigar. You know what this would, I'm so grateful for it because this cigar caught me off guard. Correct. Quite
Bam Bam: frankly,
Pagoda: with how full it
Bam Bam: was. You know what we deemed right now played it full of oysters with this.
Yes. Oh, it would be amazing. Oh, that'd be great. Do you know how many times I've
Senator: sent photos on our lizard chat with exactly this bottle Really? And oysters on my patio? That's the time. My deck deck would
Bam Bam: be ideal.
Gizmo: Amazing pairing. Can I say something about this wine, I think parallel to the cigar we're talking about this little cigar that we didn't expect much richness is fullness.
We've tried this cigar before, sipping this wine. It's a light white. I mean, I've had plenty of white wine in my life. This [00:14:00] is not what I expected. It's also not overpowering
Bam Bam: the cohiba. No, it's perfect. Which is unusual for a cohiba, typically, right? Depending on what you're drinking. But primarily you're usually overpowering the cigar.
Gizmo: Yeah. You have to try to tame it. Yeah. You know, pull it back. Mm-hmm. And we've done a lot of champagne with Cohiba. We've done, you know, rum with Cohiba. We've, I don't know if we've ever done a scotch with Cohiba. Um, no. I don't know if any of anybody in this room, I don't think we should smokes. Cohiba is regularly drinking scotch with it.
No, but I think this is a perfect pairing. I love the mouth
Pagoda: feel. I agree. Totally. Mouth feel's phenomenal.
Senator: So the funny thing about this, um. Most white wine does not age particularly well. So your standard white, you would not wanna hold for more than two to three years. You wanna drink it within that, it peaks quickly and it's downhill from there.
Um, AErica is a really unique and for it now as more people has started to learn that it even exists coveted grape because it's a rare white [00:15:00] grape that ages really well. So in a CCO you can actually hold for like up to 10 years, which is totally uncharacteristic for white grapes. Um, they usually peak between five and 10 years.
This is exactly five years. Um, and the funny part for me is just been watching this mature. So when this is younger, it's brighter and you get more acidity. There's less, there's like a little bit of honey in this, there's less of that. There's a creaminess now. Um, and even it almost feels like a little more viscosity than when you initially tried this.
So like this has all come together to what I think is like a perfect expression right now with some age. And, uh, the fun thing for me, I mean, you know, this was in my first trip to Greece that I had discovered this and I didn't know anything about Greek wine. This was part of what I really wanted to explore in Greece.
'cause I had heard that there's great white wine made there. Um, and the funny thing was I had gotten back from the [00:16:00] trip and I actually have, uh, neighbors who are Greek and, uh, they had come by once and brought over, uh, a Greek aerco. And, and I had also been to that vineyard actually when I was there. I think their stuff is good.
It wasn't my favorite. It's like we had some of that and I'm like, oh, you know, we just got back from Greece. Would you like to try some of this? They said, sure. And they're Greek, so they know Greek wine far better than I do now. I think I know Greek wine well. I've been there multiple times and they were all like, this is way better than what we normally drink outta Greece.
Of course it's, but it was just validating for me at that point. Like of course it was, this was no, just being so new to Greek wine. And the funny thing about this vineyard, and I'm happy to go into more detail about the, the vineyard and, and even just Greek wine generally. Um, they've exploded. I mean, even in the time I first visited to now, when I first came back from Greece and tried this, they didn't even sell this in total wine and more, the only place I could find it was Bottle King and Bottle King eventually sold out of it and didn't carry it [00:17:00] again for like two years.
And then I walk in Bottle King a few weeks ago and all of a sudden they're back now and they have the 2024 vintage. So you know it, Greek wine is. It has not traditionally been very popular. Tourism to Greece has exploded. I read something like post pandemic tourism is up like 60% of what it was pre pandemic.
Now people are figuring this out and so now you start to see Total wine has it, it's back at Bottle King. There are smaller wine shops that now carry, uh, Greek Aerco. So, um, it's a real boom for I think just Greek wine generally. Did you mention the vintage on this? If you did? I'm I'll. Uh, 20 20 20. Ooh. So I visited Greece June, 2021.
Can't get this anywhere. I bet one week after Greece reopened to international travelers when everything was shut down during the pandemic. Um, so the cool part of being there was, I mean, Santorini is normally like walking through Times Square and it was so quiet. Nice. And like every restaurant, every server we [00:18:00] chatted with was like, enjoy every minute because no one will ever get to experience Santorini that's like this.
That's great. They're like, this is a 10th of the people that are normally here. And uh, it was a lot of fun. We went to a bunch of vineyards and, uh, of all the wine I tried there. This by far I, this is like I will always pursue Greek A asserts as my favorite white wine. Um, and then even now, just prepping for the pod, like doing some more reading.
I mean there are a lot of really serious wine people that hold a cerico in super high regard that like this can compete with Montrachet and like grand crew shali, like super expensive French white wine. Did you write that down?
Bam Bam: I did, but I have to say though, you know, this has got a nice dry finish, but it also has a bright fruity finish alongside that, that dry finish.
And I'm trying to put my F finger on that fruit. It's kind of like a pear. Very mild, very tain peach [00:19:00] or pee. Very mild though. And that along with that dryness, that's where it peaks my interest depending on what I'm eating with this, with this particular wine and definitely what I'm smoking.
Pagoda: Yeah. Yeah. I, I think what this wine does really well is it, it this, the creaminess that's in this wine bridges the acidity and that sort of fuzzy peach uhhuh that you're getting in on the palate, just, it does it really well and it makes it very complex.
It gives, it's so subtle though. Buttery. Yeah. Buttery mouth feel. Yep. Um, and again, saltine minerality in the front. Yeah. For me, with this, what, what it's doing with this cigar and that it's taming that sort of pepper note. Yeah. And allowing some of those other things to come forward. I'm really enjoying it.
Fantastic. I
Gizmo: think pagoda nailed it when he said this is a perfect summer night. Oh yeah. With this, this cigar and this pairing in this cerico. This is a home run right now, boys.
Bam Bam: I, I, I would drink this all year round.
Gizmo: I agree.
Bam Bam: Honestly. I agree.
Pagoda: And I think that the temperature is perfect, by the way. Yeah.
Temperature. This is perfect. [00:20:00]
Chef Ricky: And some of us can do it in the morning as well, correct.
Senator: No, but your point about year round, I mean, I drink more of this in the summer than any point, but mm-hmm. The crazy year I did the stupid tasting menu at Thanksgiving. That was way too inches. Do you wanna recap that again for if you remember?
No. It'll take an hour just to get through the menu and you'll be pissed off when you're done. Exactly. One of the courses, this was one of the pairings and
Pagoda: everybody obviously was very pleased with it. What was the course?
Senator: Uh. I think lobster bisque.
Pagoda: Okay. Yeah, I could see that works. That's per, I was going with flaw, so I could see the, the lobster bisque flaw working with this wine beautifully.
Yeah. Yep.
Senator: So what can you tell us about a Erko senator? Yeah, so first let's start with, uh, domain Segals, just the, um, the winery, and then, uh, a little bit more about Greek wine and a cerico. So, domain Segals was started in 1991 by a guy named Paris Segals, um, by 1998. They had grown their production enough that they built a brand new winery in EA and Santorini, which is the winery that I went [00:21:00] and visited there.
Um, on the northern end of the island, uh, Paris Al is widely considered to be now the top producer on Santorini and many say like the greatest maker of white wine in Greece, period. Um, so like I said, like this has really exploded and become highly regarded. I mean, it was fun for me. Just even there's a wine enthusiast article that talks about Greek aerco and the bottle that they put as the cover photo for the article is Domain Segals, which again, when I first bought this, that was not the case.
Like you had to do digging to really find more about this as bam reaches for another pork. Go ahead. There's a second bottle. We're all, uh, clearly everybody likes this and we're gonna do two bottles of this today. The philosophy of the winery is that wine is to be made in the vineyard, not the winery itself.
And so all of there I like that wine. Yeah, that's a cool wine. It is.
Bam Bam: That's very cool.
Senator: It is. And all of their grapes are handpicked. Nothing is, you know, machine picked or anything like that. Um, and the domain has been organic since [00:22:00] 1994, so they've been doing this a long time. This isn't like a fad, like everybody in the two thousands has tried to be organic in, in kind of their production.
Um, but Grease in general has an amazing wine story. People have been making wine on the island of Greece for more than 3000 years. Wow. Crazy history. And as we know, like obviously you know what's coming. Oh boy. Oh boy.
Bam Bam: As senator as the rooster was pulling up on shore,
what his next, his head, and by the way, as
Gizmo: soon as I, you said that, I looked at Bam and I saw that my eyes went red. I saw it starting to build. It was like a snowball rolling down a hill, like an avalanche.
Rooster: He wasn't even thinking about it, it was you. No, I was, I just
Senator: locked eyes with him.
Pagoda: Oh, that's funny.
That's funny.
Senator: So 3000 years ago when Rooster tried the first vintage of Greek wide, um, this, it was red, it turned [00:23:00] white. What happened?
Rooster: 3000 years. It loses color, I guess. Correct.
Senator: Rooster turned water to Wide, that's true. He beat the other guy to it. Correct. So Greece actually has 300 different indigenous wine grapes.
Wow. Which is nuts. Wow. Really? Like, shocking. And, and you named them all? Uh, absolutely not. And then the wild thing is AErica is probably the most famous Greek grape at this point, but it only accounts for 3% of the country's vines. Why is that? Because it's all really made on Santorini. And Santorini is just this tiny little island.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm.
Senator: But a lot of tourism happens there more than pretty much anywhere in Greece outside of maybe like Athens. And given that like people find themselves discovering Aerco there. Wow. And because of that, a lot of American, you know, wholesalers and wine shops pursue a erco because they know consumers will likely encounter it there and then want to purchase it when they get [00:24:00] back here.
So it's just funny how it's like such a small percentage there. But in the US that's really the only Greek, white Greek wine period that you would reliably find in like a larger kind of wine shop or liquor store. Interesting. Did we talk about the price of this
Bam Bam: bottle?
Senator: Yeah, I was gonna ask that. How much is this bottle Senator?
Yeah. So I think it's actually very reasonably priced. Um, right now today it's 40 a bottle.
Bam Bam: What? Okay.
Senator: That's pretty good. That's a great price. This for what you're is, is a great price. Good of a white wine. I was totally expecting you to say 60 to 70, about 60 bucks. I was thinking, yeah. Wow. I think 40 is very good for this.
And so the, the interesting thing just about AErica of the grapes, so number one, what's characteristic of all grapes in Greece, the soil is incredibly volcanic. How, you know, the caldera is formed in those islands, obviously huge volcanic eruptions, um, you know, ages ago. And so the soil is really, really unique for that, this grape in particular, why Greeks [00:25:00] were very wise to start growing a lot of this.
And now from what I've read, other producers in other countries, Australia, France, even now I'm hearing in California, are trying to grow a tica because AErica handles heat unbelievably well and obviously temperatures have risen. And so, uh, it's also resistant to disease and drought. Um. Per
Rooster: perfect for Cuba to grow?
Oh, yeah.
Senator: Yeah. I mean, honestly, truly.
Rooster: Yeah.
Senator: Um, and, and the thing is, with white wine, most whites have some acidity that's like very characteristic of most white wine, souvignon blanc, uh, aerco, things like that. When there's really high heat, the grape loses that acidity. It's sweet. And so you get like a really flat wine when you're trying to grow like some Sauvignon Blanc or a Erco, in this case, a erco though, is super heat resistant, so it never loses that acidity.[00:26:00]
And because of that and the, the high acidity that it's able to maintain the aging potential on this ends up being tremendous. I mean, I mentioned early when you have this young, there's a little more acidity than you have now. A little more fruit notes that I think now kind of get tamed and a little more balanced with like some of the minerality that you get in this and, um, the stone fruit.
And ironically, like, even like stone or like, you can almost taste like the volcanic origin of like the, the terroir there. I mean, it's just very, very unique. I don't get this flavor profile in any white wine outside of Aerco and really this one in particular. So for all those reasons, the grape has been super pursued.
And um, I, from what I've read, even like we may see a erco pop up outta California in like the next, next 10, 20 years. Interesting. Which would be wilding. Yeah. I'm really impressed with
Gizmo: this tonight.
Bam Bam: Yeah. I'd be curious if they were [00:27:00] able to make it in volume and lower the price, how that would affect a surgical wines worldwide price.
So I will say this, uh, they, they have been able price from the point of view of price.
Senator: Yeah. They have been able to do that. I mean, this is more a product of like, I think some value-based pricing. And I'm sure, you know, labor costs and other things have increased over the last several years. When I bought this, when I got back from Santorini was 35 a bottle.
Now it's gone up five bucks. But you think of inflation, all these other factors. So tariffs, it's five years ago, tariff. It's five, five years ago. Like that's, that's pretty good to only be a $5 increase over that period of time. Yep. And the other thing I'm impressed by, I mean, they're probably now the most respected vineyard on the entire island of Santorini.
And if not, um, one of the most respected across all of Greece. And the fact that they haven't sold out to some, you know, big conglomerate yet. I'm, I'm thankful for. And, uh, they make a really great product. Um, I, I'm super happy we're able to finally do a, a white wine, [00:28:00] especially this one on the pod. When did you pick these up?
Uh, 2021. Oh oh. These are
Bam Bam: older vintages. Yeah.
Senator: So you can't find this vintage anymore?
Bam Bam: No. No. So if I were to go to our local bottle king, I can find these,
Senator: you'll find the 24 vintage. 24 vintages. From what I've read, all the vintages are drinking pretty great.
Bam Bam: Yep.
Senator: But the fun thing about this is like, if you like it, do what I did.
Buy a lot of it. Hold on to it. Drink some young, it's still awesome. I mean, I drank tons of this stuff in 2021. And the fun part is the stuff that you let age, you'll be able to just see it mature and how it changes a little bit. Like our cigars. Exactly. Like our cigars. Exactly.
Rooster: Is there mostly white wine being produced in Greece or
Senator: There is red as well, but there is red as well.
I mean, uh, I'll show you a photo from when I did the, the wine tasting at domain Segals and they make a number of reds as well. So if you look at this photo, I think I tasted three reds, four whites and a rose. And at their vineyard, I mean, honestly, none of the [00:29:00] reds I would have any interest in drinking.
Again, Greece is not known for reds, but there was one red wine that I had there. Do you remember the grape? Like what? Well, that it's a really Greek name. Uh, it's coming to me though. I don't want to totally butcher this. Butcher it, please. Um, we welcome that on this program. It's something like Aico, I, I gotta you this up.
Sounds good.
Honestly, it was really good. Yeah, I think it's something like that. It, it was, I don't remember the producer. I, well, I don't now. At the time when I got home, I tried to find bottles of it and I couldn't find it anywhere. You were closer there remotely. Nearest. Are you ko? There we go. That's it. That sounds exactly right.
Um, I couldn't find that specifically the Greek chef who knew? Correct. Uh, I couldn't find that exact producer, but it was, to me it was almost like a hybrid Moreish. No, it was actually more cab like, [00:30:00] really full, um, but like, kind of a hybrid between a cab and a pinot. But it had the body of a cap. I mean, it was a deep red, full bodied, but like smooth, not very tannic.
I loved it. I actually, if you, I mean you won't remember this. I had sent a, a photo to you guys smoking a daven off Chef's edition with that exact red that I'm talking about in a class. And, um, in Greece. In Greece. I do remember that photo. Yeah, that was a while ago. We might have even like, threw it in our social media or something like that.
Mm, I think we did. Um, but, uh, that, that wine was excellent. If I could find it here, I would absolutely buy it again. But I must have tried 10 to 15 different Greek reds and only one rang my bells. Which tells you that Greece is just not really known for red. But was that, was that from the same
Rooster: vineyard?
Senator: No, it's a different, that was actually at the hotel I stayed at. Um. Uh, not a vineyard that I visited. All the reds that vineyards I visited, I didn't enjoy.
Pagoda: So, Senator, I'm curious 'cause I've, I've been to Crete [00:31:00] a couple times. Oh, that's right,
Senator: you followed suit.
Pagoda: And, um, but I, we took very different wine journeys 'cause I end up going into a local store late at night and I'm like, oh, what's this about?
What do I get? And you know, I'm very wine ignorant and uh, I always go. Did you get the, uh, Greek Ripple?
I was gonna say a bodega probably it was like two in the morning. It was a Greek table wine inside of plastic jugs. How do you feel about those? There you go.
Senator: Uh, plastic jugs, I'm not so sure about, but the idea of going into a little local store, I mean, I did that. That's cool. When I went to Santorini, half of the trip we stayed in ea, which is like the tourist area where you see all the postcards of the big white called eras.
And the other half we stayed on the other side of Santorini in a village called, um, mega. The hotel was actually built on a vineyard there. And, uh, it was just cool 'cause when you're in e everything is so touristy, like a, a euro's, like, you know, $30. Like, it, it just, it, you don't feel like you're getting an [00:32:00] authentic Greek experience when you get out to the other side.
This village. It felt so authentic. I'd go in like the little village center, there was like this little shop to like pick up bottles of wine. And um, you know, I would try all these different, like kind of to your point, like super affordable Aerco, some other reds, they're costing like $10 a bottle. I mean, nothing expensive.
Um, and I found some really nice stuff that, like, I enjoyed the whole trip, um, amazing food. So, uh, I don't, nothing wrong with what you did. The plastic bottle was a little suspect, but outside of that probably was Ripple. But Creed is also amazing. So we went to Crete the following year and uh, Jeff loved it so much, he went twice.
Pagoda: Yep. Nice. That was a great experience.
Gizmo: So boys, we're coming to the end of the first third here on the Cohiba SLA two. What are you thinking? This is a home run. I'm sorry. It's
Bam Bam: off the, it's off the
Gizmo: charts. It's a home
Bam Bam: run. I think it's just off the
Gizmo: charts and, and, and when I say it's a home run, I, I, I'm equally as frustrated that it's taken another three [00:33:00] and a half years from when we smoked it in 21.
At almost two years old.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Gizmo: Then another three and a half to get to this point. Especially for the price now. That is very frustrating to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But
Rooster: you really have to smoke a fresh cohiba Cilo two to really tell, right? Sure. Mm-hmm. I mean, I wonder how those are smoking now, and if you don't think they're smoking like this, let's,
Gizmo: let's put it that way.
If you can even find them, there's, there's a marriage of the flavors in this thing that is so well-rounded. Yes, very. It's like everything, everything has kind got its place. It's matured in a very complex way. It's sophisticated, even though it's a little, you know, Eva, I, I don't know. I I think this is a home run right now.
Bam Bam: Yeah. I, I just think limited explanations needed. This is just, it's really amazing. It's delicious. I'm so surprised. I think we're all shocked. The room is fairly full of smoke for a little guy. Powerful little cigar. Elegant. I mean, everything you want,
Senator: [00:34:00] I just think how much flavor is like the surprise? I, I'm still shocked.
It's like every puff, it's a flavor ball, doesn't
Bam Bam: it smoke like an
Senator: aged
Bam Bam: cigar? It's a heavily, it feels heavily aged to me.
Senator: Yeah. But it, it's like, it doesn't even feel like a cohiba. No, honestly. I mean, aged cohibas. I've had even super aged cohibas. Correct. They're like. Milder, but so complex, and they're like super enjoyable.
But I've never had a cohiba with a significant amount of age that is this flavorful, like this starts medium and like even approaches medium full. Like, it's like shocking the experience. You get this, this is kind of reminding me of a bolivar. I agree with that bit. Oh, I
Bam Bam: don't disagree with that. Right.
Gizmo: In terms of like the fullness, the full of the flavor
Bam Bam: cigarette.
Yes. Like I'm getting a
Gizmo: brown sugar thing right now. Condo a sweetness. That is, I wouldn't say it's honey. I don't disagree with you. It, it's, it's, it's a
Bam Bam: richer experience right now. Yes. Like a brown sugar brown. Like a sweet brown butter. Yes. That's what I'm getting.
Gizmo: I like that sweet brown butter. Butter.
That, that's a
Bam Bam: great [00:35:00] call. Yeah. But on a sweeter side. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo: This is excellent.
Pagoda: Mine is still rather punchy. I'm shocked at how, I don't know if you, I haven't smoked as many cohibas as you guys. In what way? What do you mean by that? The spice. There's tons of flavor, but there's a lot of spice backing up the flavors.
I'm not getting the super round experience that I'm hearing from Gizmo, but I'm not upset about it. It's just a lot more punchy and pronounced than I was expecting out of Interesting. A cohiba, especially one of this size. Mm.
Gizmo: I I am not getting that. No, I'm not having that experience at all. Mine
Pagoda: is rather punchy.
Really? Yeah. Like it's still sharp and certain quadrants. Wow.
Chef Ricky: Pagoda For me, it's, it's been excellent. You know, I've tried to retro hill this a few times. I said, if you have to, retro Hill might as well. Retro Hill a Cohiba.
Bam Bam: That's exactly right.
Chef Ricky: And um, yeah, so, you know, obviously I'm not very good at retro hailing, but, um, you know, getting still a little bit of, uh, initially it was very, uh, pronounced like Graham cracker, but now it's become like, I think sweet or bacon spice.
I dunno. It's, [00:36:00] it's changed a little bit. Um, on the retro. On the retro, yeah. It's, it's become a little, and then I just feel a lot of heat, so I'm not very good at it. But Is it heat
Pagoda: or spice you're feeling? It's, it's heat. I think it's, I think it's smoking. It's a little smoke too fast. Maybe when I'm
Chef Ricky: retro I think it's coming out a little faster than I should do.
It is lit. So it could be,
Bam Bam: it's gonna be hot, but maybe, I think rooster's point is well taken. Maybe slow down just a touch, maybe.
Pagoda: No, but there are cigars that, you know, the smoke is kind of cooling. It's not this, this is a rather hot smoke. I, I'd say I agree. And you know what? I have a V cut on mine. Maybe that has something to do.
I'm, I'm guessing you guys all have flat cuts.
Rooster: It's a smaller ring gauge, so it's gonna be a little hot or cigar.
Pagoda: Yeah,
Rooster: you gotta really slow it down. A
Bam Bam: V cut on a cohiba.
Senator: That's what, that's what
Rooster: de does
Bam Bam: the de
Senator: every time. That's true. That's true. Every time. I just wanna say I disagree. I still disagree with him.
I don't care. I just wanna say this commentary is, [00:37:00] uh. Timely in the sense that, I saw a clip last week with Steve Sacca where this exact thing came up, his words quote, where I don't know a single person who is a serious cigar smoker that uses a V Cutt. Yeah. Wow. I don't disagree with that. That's a definitive statement for sa.
That is. I think
Pagoda: that's an edit.
Gizmo: I'm leaving it in
Bam Bam: spraying
Chef Ricky: cigars also. That's another conversation. That's the reason enough. Correct.
Gizmo: So boys, while Senator opens our second bottle of CICO on the pod tonight, let's talk about a little news item. It's very appropriate for the cohiba that we're smoking. The festival, Del Hano 26 has been announced and is scheduled for February 23rd through 27, 20 26, and of course, they're going to be celebrating the 60th anniversary of the launch of Cohiba, which I believe is going to be [00:38:00] the launch of the cigar.
We've been fortunate to have been tasting for about a year and a half now. The Abe, the pyramid, the 59 ring gauge
Pagoda: ah
Gizmo: pyramid, which everybody's been saying was the Bahi K 59. There was a lot of rumors that that cigar was coming out alongside the Bahi K 58, right. This year, which was not the case. We told everybody that everybody else was saying that it was coming out.
We knew it wasn't. I think this year it's gonna come out. Now, I don't know if it's gonna come out as a bke. I doubt it. Mm-hmm. I think it's gonna come out as either an addision, Liata or some sort of special packaging like the 55th where it has a 60th band on it. That's my presumption, but I think we're gonna see that big torpedo this year.
Rooster: Does that have to maybe at Theo or No, I don't
Gizmo: remember that. That has, it has Noli. Herro. There's no Lee Herro in that cigar. It has no herro Noli Herre. Lot of me tempo. Your cigar must be very spicy too. Yeah.
Pagoda: Going puberty at the age of 300, it's spicy.[00:39:00]
Oh
Bam Bam: God.
Pagoda: It's a great night.
Gizmo: Go ahead. So, yeah, the, uh, festival Del Hano, I went to it a couple years ago. That was a one and done for me. It's a very expensive experience. You know, you're not gonna be able to purchase tickets for that. If you're a consumer out there who wants to go. The best way to do it is to get in with a Cuban cigar retailer that is officially licensed and provided by Haos or a distributor.
And you gotta get in that way. That's the easiest way to do it. Individuals trying to buy tickets, it often ends up being a little bit of a shit show. Um, even with technology, there's a lot of folks that go to Cuba, assuming they can get in and they don't. And for the expense of that and, and the preparation of that and the time of that to not end up getting in.
If you want to go, um, that's a little bit disappointing. So you gotta be, I would plan ahead is my advice for that. And as we get closer to the festival, we'll certainly keep you updated on what we're hearing as far as, uh, [00:40:00] releases go. So, POIs, let's go to some listener email now, if you're ready for that.
So first we're gonna go to an email from Lizard John. He says, Hey guys, you've mentioned Unbounded Cubans a few times. Are you talking about Cuban farm rolls or custom rolls? That's the first question, so I'll let that go. So we talk about cigars that are unbranded, that we've been very fortunate to get.
Wait, why don't, why don't you let pagoda explain this? Correct?
Chef Ricky: Oh, no.
Gizmo: Where are your unb banded cigars? Pagoda?
Chef Ricky: I don't know. It's somebody in Miami smoking it. Which,
Senator: which different, uh, cigars. Do you have Unbended who made I can't make, uh, the difference?
Gizmo: Yeah. Pagoda has no idea. He, he walks in, he likes a cigar, and he goes, what am I smoking?
Yeah. Or someone asks him, what, what are he smoking? He says, I don't know. Unbended bullshit. Unbended bullshit. We've been very fortunate. When we're in Cuba, we, we have gotten a nice collection of cigars. Obviously there's a [00:41:00] lot of folks out there who smoke farm rolls. I do think there is a significant difference, and this is my opinion in a farm roll or a, you know, a table rolled cigar that you're able to get without a band on it, or some sort of custom roll that has been made for you or tailored to your taste profile.
And the reason why I say that is unlike, you know, like Chef Ricky in this country, right? In the United States here, a good chef is also a good maker of recipe and a good maker of plates and, and, and flavors and all that stuff. What I find in Cuba, and you guys can disagree with me, is that. Being a great roller does not mean you're a great blender.
And I've had a lot of folks,
Pagoda: of
Gizmo: course, yeah. Roll cigars that the blend ends up not being I agree still. Yeah. So I think that a lot of folks who get farm rolls in Cuba have a beautiful cigar, looks great, construction's really good, but the flavor's not there because the recipe's not there. So I think that's a risk [00:42:00] that I would be hesitant to take.
If you see those kind of custom rolls pop up on, you know, groups or wherever you might find them on the internet, um, I would tread lightly. That's my opinion.
Pagoda: Would you say that some farm rows are also aesthetically somewhat amateur looking or a little bit rougher? No. Most of
Gizmo: the time these folks have so much experience.
Yep. They look good. They look like, like bench cigars, you know, coming out of, coming off the bench at a. Mother factory. Yeah. That's, they feel
Bam Bam: fresh as well. You want, you want the unbended bench cigars at the end of the day. Yeah, exactly right. I mean,
Rooster: when we were in Cuba, we saw, we went to the Hector.
Hector Prieto.
Gizmo: Prieto. Yeah.
Rooster: And uh, the cigars that we got there, those looked great. They were so, so they didn't really smoke that well. Yeah, they didn't taste, don't think they were terrible. They were terrible. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, I was being nice. No,
Bam Bam: they, I'm not gonna be, they sucked. No room for Nice on this recording.
Gizmo: All right, let's continue on with Lizard John's email here. He said I'd really love it if you kept reviewing Cubans. There are still so many you haven't covered yet. [00:43:00] I get that some are more expensive or less appealing to you guys, but there are some great ones in the mix like Millie Flos and the more affordable majestic line from H Up man.
Some of the pricier Trinidad, ROS, a bunch of Hoyos you haven't done. And some of the different sizes of Monte Cristo Edmundo. Personally, I'd rather see reviews of new Cubans than going back to the ones you've already done. Now I'm curious what Lizard John thinks about this experiment that we're doing tonight.
Smoking a cigar. With the same code that we did a few years ago. So Lizard John, please let us know. Yeah. Also, forgetting cigars. Does FOH still carry most of regular production? Last I checked, Rob still had the usual items and some hard finds. Hmm. So I would say, um, I think as far as a legitimate retailer, and, and this is an unbiased opinion, I know that we're friends with 'em.
I talk to 'em a lot, dead serious, FOH for consumers in the United States and the world. But in the United States specifically, FOH right now is probably the most trustworthy, reliable, and best sourced, [00:44:00] uh, you know, retailer of Cupid cigars. Rob does have everything. He has some really amazing stuff coming in.
I saw Parus eight, nine eights recently, sir Winston's the entire catalog of all the stuff that you would expect, and the prices are actually very reasonable. And Rob, okay. Actually has been offering some discounts. He's got these things of vintage boxes once a week, you know, he does this price slash every day.
So he's doing some stuff to try to get the cigars into the hands of folks Nice. Who, uh, really, really want them. Very nice. So check that out on FOH. And he says, uh, would you ever consider starting a Patreon to help with sourcing Cubans? If you did, I would definitely subscribe. Even if you guys decide to recu review Cubans just once a month or less, I'd still be tuning in because I love what you guys do.
Honestly, I'd even consider sponsoring an episode if it meant making the lizard get together, happen. A pop or a pop-up zoom or discord smoke session with the lizards would be amazing [00:45:00] and really wouldn't cost that much. If anything, keep up the great work lizard. John, great email.
Pagoda: Yeah,
Gizmo: so we have a lot of folks that have asked us about Patreon.
You know, I dunno if, are you guys familiar with the Patreon platform? What they do there? No. Yes. You're not familiar with it. Yeah. Effectively, it's a, a platform in which artists, content creators, artists, et cetera, you create a subscription model where you set certain tiers of access and additional content, et cetera.
My feeling, I, I have a couple feelings on it. Number one. For me, doing what we do every week. I think as far as content goes to get this done every week, I think is enough of a pressure, but to put a financial pressure on it where nope, we have an expecting paying audience. No, that is expecting additional content or exclusive content.
I don't know if that would be something that would be reasonable among the group here. I mean, it just, it seems like a little too much in my opinion.
Senator: I agree. Sounds like we'll be hiring a chief revenue officer who's not named Gizmo. [00:46:00] Also true.
Gizmo: The other thing too, I mean, you know, um, it's hard enough to get us all wrangled Yeah. For a recording. You know, we have a nice rotation of guys in here. Um, you know, and, and we float in and out depending on what's going on. But you know, again, to put another burden of pressure on that, right now, I'm, I'm not feeling the, uh, Patreon thing, so no lizards off to talk.
Agreed. No lizards after
Senator: dark. Ben, Ben wanted to put that on OnlyFans. Uh, yeah,
Bam Bam: there's a lot there boys.
Gizmo: And then the other question about the lizard get together, we've talked about that several times on the pod. I know we're coming up on episode 200. I would say, boys, we should put a goal together of getting a lizard get together somewhere in this country, in the United States sometime in 2026.
That would be, I think, a great goal. Maybe we parallel it alongside PCA, maybe we parallel it alongside some other event that's going on. What are your thoughts on that?
Bam Bam: What if we did it. Around [00:47:00] at another venue during the next year's PCA in New Orleans.
Gizmo: It's not a bad idea
Bam Bam: and I'd love to do it there of all places in New Orleans.
Be outstanding.
Senator: I would just say this, I think there's no question that we wanna do this. We've been talking about this for a while now. Um, I would love for listeners wherever you are, particularly in the United States 'cause that's where we would start doing this. There's, I think we're very much interested in also doing this, you know, in other cities globally eventually, um, wherever you are just writing in your level of interest in attending this, because we need to figure out and prioritize where the first one is and I think where there's the most demand, it would be helpful to, to know that would be a good starting place for us.
Yeah. We can congregate there. That's a good idea.
Gizmo: My assumption that would be that the starting point as far as demand would be New York.
Pagoda: Mm.
Gizmo: You know, York, why not right here. That's what I mean. Like this area. Yeah. 10 86. I think. I think that's where, I think that's where a lot of, uh, interesting a lot of folks are, is kind of in this Northeastern United States thing.[00:48:00]
Okay. Obviously we had a lot of listeners outside of there. There's no question about it. Yeah. But I think there's a large concentration, um, in this area who are not our friends and stuff. Or
Rooster: maybe Santorini.
Gizmo: Oh, I'm in for that. I. So a great email from Lizard John. We are working on it. We are always talking about it.
And, uh, we will keep, you know, trying to put something together as far as a lizard get together. We'll do it when the time is right and, uh, you all out there will be the first to know about it. So let's go now to Liz. Uh, an email from Lizard Enrique who writes us a lot, and he writes the subject line, profound Disrespect.
Bam Bam: Oh boy.
Gizmo: Oh, I'm well aware of that. And he says, lizards, there needs to not be an accountability hour for bam, but instead a profoundly more severe penalty. Can you skip that for his blatant disrespect? What of the much revered cigar beetle mortality protocol Cigar.
Bam Bam: Oh, Jesus Christ. I knew this was gonna fucking come back.[00:49:00]
Yeah. Bullshit. I think this is all scripted.
Gizmo: He says this aggression against the protocols that underpin the lizard nation. I did it once. Cannot stand what's next? Bam. Urinating on the Constitution. Yeah,
Bam Bam: sure. Lizard
Gizmo: Enrique.
Bam Bam: Oh boy. All right, Enrique. I did it once and that was it.
Senator: So, but the, but the question is, will you ever do it again?
Bam Bam: Well, no. I have our fearless leader gizmo with his freezer and his thermostats and all his other contraptions. What, what exactly did you do? I just put my cigars. What? Which what? I bought two. You put 'em in a regular Ziploc in his freezer? Yeah. So I was in Turks and I got the, the, um, next to the stakes?
Yeah. The tube boxes of Cuban cigars. And I put 'em in there for two and a half days In the freezer. In a bag? In a bag, yeah. Took him outta the box just as a precautionary measure. That's all. He half-assed it. He did? Yeah. Oh, do you have one of his contraptions at all? I, I have about eight of 'em. Do you do, do you He's a professional
Gizmo: chef.
[00:50:00] He's got a walk in. He right around the freezer.
Bam Bam: Yes. Walkin, freezers. I don't know anyone else in the room that has that. Then
Senator: you
Gizmo: gotta go the, there even I have a separate freezer in my basement. Mm-hmm. The thing about it is the one upstairs in your main kitchen is getting open 17 times a day every time somebody needs chicken nuggets.
Not true. And veggies and everything else.
Bam Bam: Nope. Not true.
Gizmo: Come on.
Bam Bam: Correct.
Senator: Bam. Doesn't allow anyone to use the freezer. He has a lock. He has a lock on the freezer. When the cigars, when the cigars are in there,
Pagoda: it's locked.
Ba I'm just imagining
Senator: bam and his bad voice, you
Gizmo: shall starve
Bam Bam: no ice cream for
Gizmo: you.
Bam Bam: When I see a hand go up, freezer's closed.
Gizmo: All right boys, let's continue on with this. We're gonna talk about some feedback from that same episode. Uh, lizard Denny wrote Great episode. Appreciate all you guys. Lizard Sonic Stags had great episode and this will no doubt feature in the best of 2025 with bams accountability Hour.
Bam Bam: Again.
Gizmo: Well, alongside that, I think he's saying as [00:51:00] far as quality, we're talking about the H Up man episode, by the way, wasn't the feature on the brands? Hold
Bam Bam: on. That was three years ago. Can we move on?
Gizmo: No, I think he's saying that this episode stacks next to the bam bam accountability hours as far as, ah, we need to know
Senator: what city these lizards are in so that we can do this event there for a live bam, bam, accountability hours.
Sure. This would be great. And it
Bam Bam: could be listener led, right? Yes. Right in the middle of Des Moines, Iowa. Okay. Enjoy.
Gizmo: So he says, uh, the feature on the brands and their typical flavor notes Youma. Guys, remember we did that. We went through the. All the global brands and what we expect when we smoke the global brands and their flavor profile.
He says, and their typical flavor notes was great, as was the newbie five pack for Cuban cigar smokers. We do really need these lizards, top cigars and their desert island cigars. It's a good idea. I know we've talked about some of those before, but of course we do have episode, uh, 200 coming up very soon, boys.
So we're gonna do some fun stuff for that. And of course, our end of the year recap, you'll hear all of our favorite cigars and what we're [00:52:00] doing at the end of the year. Lizard. Barry, good vibes, writes great episode. Good to know. I can crack my box in another year to try. He is saying of the H up man, number two.
He says, lizard gizmo. One question. Why are we freezer protocoling, official? Haos. I thought they freeze them before retail. And that is a great point because bam, bam did not text me and asked me if he needed to freeze them. That's true. Anything that comes that's true from official hano sources.
Bam Bam: Well,
Gizmo: outside of Cuba.
Go ahead. Don't not, don't tell him this. No, no, go ahead. Even Pones, you should put in the freezer. Ba.
Bam Bam: I've never done that.
Gizmo: Did you put your Trinity Retos in the freezer? Bam. You should have. No.
Bam Bam: Um, so when we were in Cuba, the only freezer that I re recall is at, uh, Guido. I didn't see a freezer at left. No, no, no.
Gizmo: So what happens is, is. Hano Haos themselves at the distribution facilities inside and outside Cuba are freezing them before they leave [00:53:00] the island. Factors electricity Not in the factory. Have we ever
Senator: seen that in person? We've never been a Hano facility. No. We've never been to a distribute distribution facility.
Gizmo: The thing I'll say on this and, and Rob Ala has said he hasn't seen a Beetle in an official release in like 20 years. Mm-hmm. 15, 20 years. I've never seen them in official boxes. I don't know anybody else that has, unless they have a situation where Rooster Have you never? No.
Pagoda: That's not true.
Gizmo: But I, like we've said before, official Haos releases that are legitimate with the bands and the codes and all that stuff, everything's right on them.
You're good. Unless they come outta Cuba and they have the min SAP sticker on them, those need to be frozen. Anything that stays on the island, that doesn't leave the island for distribution is never frozen. You need to freeze those. Everything else globally is all good. Alright, so we have another one here.
Actually. We have a few of these. The Lizard Newbie, uh, cigar Smoker Five Pack was a big hit with folks. Got a lot of commentary on that. Of course. If you remember, our five [00:54:00] pack was of course the Parus D four, the H Up man, Magnum 46. The Montecristo number two, the K Dorse, Coronas, Claro. The Rames specially select, correct?
Correct. Bam, that's a great five pack. It is. So we had some folks reply with their own five packs to counter what we did. I wanted to read these to you and see what you think. So this one is from Lizard Bonos. He writes, Corona Lonsdale from Raphael Gonzalez Punch Short to Punch Kay Dorsey number 50.
Monte Cristo number five, and the Ramon Ionis number three. No,
Bam Bam: Monty five and the Corona to Lonsdale. Those are a little unusual for a starter. There's
Senator: only one cigar in that that I wish the short,
Bam Bam: short to punch.
Gizmo: Well,
Bam Bam: the punch, punch
Senator: two, the short to punch and the Ramons number three. That's it.
Gizmo: Yeah. And the QD 50 you like.
No, I don't. I thought you were smoking that for breakfast. Yeah, I have to smoke them. Ah,
Senator: I'm What do you mean you have to? Well, I'm stuck [00:55:00] with them. Stuck with them. I had a great box of these and then GIZ source me a box. This is news to me. What happened? They have the thickest wrappers of all time. Yeah, they're like fireproof, right?
They are now. Age has helped them. So like they're actually good right now. Could be the top. Not bad. Could be the tower. But they're not life changing.
Gizmo: It could be a
Bam Bam: conditioning issue. No. Could link them up when he first gave them to me. Got a point. You got a point.
Senator: Sorry. I'll throw him in the freezer pad.
That could
Bam Bam: help.
Senator: That's the problem
Bam Bam: I love. I'd love the cutie 50.
Gizmo: This one is from Lizard Lucas. He writes My newbie five pack would be poor Lauren Petit Coronas Monte Cristo number three. Cohiba Ribo Parus Series P number two and the H up man Magnum 46.
Chef Ricky: Last one. What? The Heba Rab Robusto newbie. The P two over a knee two.
Yeah.
Gizmo: I mean P two over D four. I think for a newbie is definitely a miss. I mean, I agree. I mean you gotta have the D four in there. Agreed. I don't know how. Agreed. Agreed. You have Forget for a newbie. For anybody. For anybody. I totally agree with. [00:56:00] Totally agree with that. Alright, and another one here for you.
This one is from user NamUs GR 11 on FOH five pack. For those nude to Cuban cigars Parus D four Trinidad Colonial. Ah Monte Crito number four, punch punch. Hoyo de Monterey Petite Robo.
Bam Bam: The colonials, however, that's a, what is that, a $42 cigar right now? Yeah. It's just pricey. Pretty expensive. Yeah. That is not for a newbie Cuban smoker.
Um, everything else seemed okay.
Gizmo: All right. Let's go to another one now on, actually, hang on. Audio number three. Last one.
Senator: Uh, he didn't say oil number three. He did? No. Was
Gizmo: oil
Senator: short ribo or something
Gizmo: like that? It was the, sorry. It was the Ho de Monterey. Petite ribo. Petite ribo. Petite robo. That's why I wanted to stop.
Bam Bam: Mm.
Senator: Yeah.
Gizmo: I've never
Senator: had that. Has had that. Anybody else here? No.
Rooster: No. Nope. Rooster? Maybe. Petite Rab. Boosto. I think I have had that. Can't remember. I don't remember. Gotta open it. Is it good?
Senator: I'm just very curious. I mean, you never really [00:57:00] hear about that in the oil line as like a, usually everybody talks about the epi two.
Exactly.
Bam Bam: We may have to. When
Senator: you said oil, that's ex, that's what I expected you to say in epicure number two. Let's
Bam Bam: open the Rooster Chronicles on that one.
Senator: We have some hos that we need to do.
Bam Bam: There are some. I
Senator: just say it because, you know, someone recommended it. We ought to at some point review it. Yeah, definitely.
I've never had one.
Bam Bam: Yeah, no.
Gizmo: Here's another one from Lizard Berry. Good vibes. He said the new the newbie five pack. And I would have them smoke the cigars in this order. A Hoya to Monterey epicure number 2K Dorsey number 50. Poor Lauren Yaga, Petit Coronas Parus Series D number four, and the Montecristo number two.
That's a pretty good list.
Pagoda: Yeah,
Gizmo: that's good. And we'll go to our Instagram. Now this got a lot of comments on Instagram. User mc cigars on Instagram. Wrote Monte Cristo number two H up and half Corona. That's a good one. That's a great one. That's a great one. Of course, part of a series D number four, some kind of r and j, even though they may suck, he's saying that this, you know, because it's a global brand.
And [00:58:00] then funny enough, Cohiba SLA one or Cohiba SLA two.
Bam Bam: Hmm.
Gizmo: Now the problem there of course is the price.
Bam Bam: Oh yeah. And procurement. And procurement.
Gizmo: So, uh, some other folks, uh, commented some things. They'd sub Christopher, well, user Christopher Johnson said that we were missing the RYJ Churchill, which obviously a couple weeks ago, boys, that was a great cigar
Bam Bam: gushed over that thing.
That was
Gizmo: really good. I don't know if a beginner though, if putting a Churchill in a beginner's hands is the right move. I
Bam Bam: agree.
Gizmo: Another one from Brooksy Food Love says I'd sub the Mag 46 for each up and half Corona or Cohiba Robo. You guys otherwise nailed it.
Bam Bam: Cohiba Robo? No. Uh,
Gizmo: Cohiba Robo?
Bam Bam: No. I
cohiba. Robo Coro.
Rooster: I think the listeners are forgetting that this, this pack is for a newbie.
Senator: Yeah,
Rooster: I think they might be talking about their own favorite five packs.
Senator: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no newbie is spending 40 to a hundred dollars on a cigar. No way. I mean that's just [00:59:00] crazy.
Gizmo: So this one is from User Fresh Sticks says I agree that the Coronas Claro is harder to find.
I would suggest replacing it with the Hoya de Monterey epicure number two.
Bam Bam: Alright. No argument.
Gizmo: So this one from LB Cigars says I would always swap the Monte two for the up. Man. Two. Yeah. And the Magnum 46. For the Connie two.
Bam Bam: No fucking way am I giving a Nubian up and two, that's not gonna happen.
Senator: Tell us how you really feel bad, right?
Am I crazy? That's insane. I don't mind the up, man. Two, I'm more confused by the Connie two for the Magnum 46. Yeah, the Connie
Gizmo: two.
Bam Bam: Yeah,
Gizmo: I think the Mag 46 is just perfect.
Bam Bam: I agree. I agree.
Gizmo: Another couple folks. U user bangs man said swapped the Mag 46 for the H up man. Half Corona. Actually I don't think that's a bad one.
Me. We may have messed that one up.
Bam Bam: Maybe
Gizmo: putting the Magda 46 in over the half Corona, I don't think messed it up. I think
Senator: we [01:00:00] chose. Cigars for like a, a session, you know, not a quick smoke size. Size matters.
Bam Bam: Yeah, that's an end of evening smoke. Yeah.
Gizmo: Two more here. We have uh, user, John Adolf PT said great list, but I'd personally swap out the up men half Corona for the Mag 46 and the QD 50 for the Corona's Claro Bo based mostly on relative cost and availability.
And I like this comment from U user Petros coach Jan said, every beginner must smoke a ros,
Bam Bam: just roll up a newspaper. You got it.
Gizmo: That's the easiest one to source. I'm
Bam Bam: sorry.
Gizmo: All right, boys, we're coming in now to the last third on the Cohiba SLA two, and I need some more AErica. If we could pass that around
Chef Ricky: your last, yeah.
Gizmo: What are you guys thinking of the pairing while I get some more wine
Bam Bam: outstanding? I think the pairings outstanding. I don't think you can say anything negative about the pairing at all. The second bottle got even sweeter than the first one.
Gizmo: Is [01:01:00] everybody into the second bottle, but me?
Pagoda: Yes. Yeah, I've been
Chef Ricky: waiting for you to pass
Pagoda: your glass.
I've been, I've been over
Gizmo: here yapping.
Chef Ricky: You know, I drink
Gizmo: slow,
Chef Ricky: so
Pagoda: gotta get closer in the circle. 'cause I have
Gizmo: a lot of crap over here, chef. So I, I am really shocked for this little petite corona we have in our hands. To me it's smoking. Like, if you didn't tell me how long it was, it's smoking like a double Corona for me.
Or a, or a, or a, a Churchill in its flavor and what it's delivering. Like, I can't believe it's so small
Bam Bam: and as noted earlier, it's a powerful little cigar. There's a lot, there's a lot here. Yeah.
Chef Ricky: The only place I'll disagree, there's smoking really fast. I'm pretty, you're spoken
Pagoda: really fast. Yeah.
Gizmo: Alright boys, couple more comments here and then we'll get to our lizard of the week.
This one is from FOH User dmac LV says, regardless if it's hookah or hookers, I'm always down to listen to a Lizards podcast.
Chef Ricky: Liz
Gizmo: really would love someone to lead the charge on [01:02:00] supplying the guys with more Cubans. I thought Romeo Ross, he said Cubans Bama was jumped outta his seat. Correct. Romeo, he pulled out his phone.
Romeo Cupids, Parus Legatos, Romeo Nolis, mono Cristo, Maltus Laa. The Mono Cristo A, that's like a nine inch cigar, by
Bam Bam: the way. Yeah. Yep, yep.
Gizmo: The, or any of the Diplomatico Regional or limited. I absolutely love the Legatos and if I had the resources, I would get a box for the lizards. I would also love to hear a deep dive on what the F went down between Hamlet and Senator Hamlet was not about to let that interaction go.
So I think, I think this listener is on the episode we recorded with Hamlet, where you and Hamlet were kind of having this love fest. I think I was taking it the other way. Hamlet and Senator. Totally in love with each other. It was
Bam Bam: all in a positive,
Gizmo: very positive.
Bam Bam: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Nothing like
Gizmo: that. Would you agree?
Senator: Uh, yes. That's why I'm very confused by this listener. Uh,
Pagoda: no, [01:03:00] but I, I think the li the lizard is picking up that Hamlet fell in love with Senator because Senator was one of the first to challenge Hamlet in a way that
Senator: he actually understood.
Pagoda: Yeah, yeah. You know, and that like clicked.
Gizmo: Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't, and I also don't think too that, I mean, if you meet a guy like Hamlet, right?
And you're taken by the fact that he is who he is, I, I would think a lot of folks are not gonna be directly very honest with him about what they like and don't like and why. And I think yeah, senators specifically clicked with him as far as the Sure. You know, constructive feedback. And there was a lot of very positive feedback.
Of course, we smoked a ton of cigars together. We did. And there were some that, that, that it weren't hitting. And Senator, you know, found a way to connect with him on that. So that's really what you were hearing. Mm-hmm. It was all good. I agree. I mean, there was a little bit of alcohol involved as far as hamlet's concerned.
Little bit, little, just a touch. So you, there, there's an edge there, but it wasn't, uh, any sort of animus towards our friend senator here. Uh, this one's another one from Lizard, bonos and FOH regarding source of [01:04:00] Cubans. If you wanna get some stuff, come to the uk. Surely some of you can excuse up a business trip.
I mean, you gotta bring your biggest credit cards. I can't promise you the best value, but we do have some great EMS stock. Maybe you can cycle between. I'll direct
Bam Bam: you to Senator the Lizards
Gizmo: London happy hour to host you guys. Maybe you guys could cycle between the lizards. London's happy to host you guys.
Tomorrow's promise to no one in quotes F 'em smoke what you got. You don't even have to restock. Just enjoy it. So that's that. Did you hear that giz?
Chef Ricky: Yeah. It's easier said than I like that philosophy. Yeah.
Gizmo: So if you have this box of signal two in your humidor, which I now am gonna have 18, 19 left,
Bam Bam: you're gonna blow through those, right?
Gizmo: No, that's what I'm saying. No, he's gonna, I'm gonna smoke one a year. Correct?
Bam Bam: I kind of get it. I don't
Gizmo: because that's gonna be, that's, you're looking at my last box of sig twos. I'm not gonna replace this
Senator: box. They're gonna peak at a point case. Yeah.
Bam Bam: So dlo did have a good point. If your smoked one
Senator: a year in 18 years, I guarantee you're not gonna have this experience.
They're [01:05:00] in 10 years, you're not gonna have
Bam Bam: this experience. Remember what he said in his backyard? Cigars are meant to be smoked. Just smoke 'em. I would smoke
Rooster: this box in two years. Finish it off. Two
Bam Bam: years there. Two.
Pagoda: And if you have any trouble, we are here to help. Listen, smoke 'em or put 'em on Bon Roberts.
Just do something with them.
Gizmo: Alright boys, we have two more emails here. This actually is a YouTube comment. This one's from User Daniel and Le. He says, Hey guys. I've just discovered you recently, and I've been listening to your current episodes. I'm a Cuban cigar smoker and I love Cuban cigars. I have no difficulty finding anything what I want.
I have more trouble securing the income to get it. In all reality, the prices are outrageous. But for about 15 to 18 of the last 25 years, I've been smoking cigars. I was having an amazing time smoking exclusively Cuban cigars and paying less than $10 for them. Yeah, when I wanted a splurge, I was spending 12 to $15 for Cohibas, Cohibas, Trinidads, et cetera.
The market obviously, is now corrected and we are now having to pay what we used to have to pay for [01:06:00] Opus and Pones, et cetera, for all those years. Domestic cigars were more expensive than Cuban cigars, so I'm not crying foul now that the prices are even teel. It just sucks that the correction happened overnight and then it went to Benefit China and Haos bigwigs and not the people, but it was long overdue and I'm still buying.
How long ago? About 20 minutes. I ordered a box. Nice. Get me on there and I will talk to you about it. LOL. Cool. That's from, uh, user, Daniel and Lena on YouTube. All right, boys. One more for you here before we go to our rating. It's gonna be a shorter episode tonight 'cause this cigar is pretty tiny. This one is gonna be our lizard of the week.
This is from Lizard Lucas, and like I always say, boys, anybody can win Lizard of the Week. All you have to do is write us an email, any of these kind of comments on FOH, YouTube, Instagram, voice memo, whatever you choose. Please get in touch with us and, uh, tell us what you think. And of course, Senator had a call out for everyone today.
Tell us where you would like to see us do a lizard meetup. Good idea. And, uh, the more [01:07:00] responses we get, the more likely we are to pop up there. Okay? So from lizard Buck, our lizard of the week, he says, greetings, lizards. I'm new to the pod as of a couple of months ago, but I've already listened to all of the 20, 25 episodes so far.
And the first 30 episodes you guys did, I'm hooked smoking cigars for about 25 years now, and this past week I went to my second cigar lounge ever, 25 years and been to two cigar lounges. Wow. And I'll tell you why is, what are we doing? I'll tell you. I'll tell you why.
Bam Bam: Well, he prefers a, where does he live?
Solitary experience and Yeah. Maybe in the middle of Montana somewhere.
Gizmo: I'll tell you that in a second. Which is exactly. Where I'm going. And he says it's the first and only one in the state of North Dakota.
Bam Bam: Ah-huh. Oh, wow. And
Gizmo: about four hours drive from where I live. Wow. My wife has friends and family in the area.
So we came for a visit. Can you imagine? Wow. No. The nearest lounge being four hours. And I've always used North Dakota. I mean, giz you can imagine you're, you're about four hours from here.
Bam Bam: Kids
Gizmo: lives in Guam.
Bam Bam: Well, he eats his breakfast, lunch, and dinner in his [01:08:00] car on the way down.
Gizmo: Correct. You know, I've always, uh, you know, not to be retro, you know, introspective here, but I've always used North Dakota when anybody's asked for kind of the drive, the reason why we started this podcast, I've always kind of had this person in my head sitting in their garage in the middle of North Dakota, no lounge nearby.
Their wife kicks 'em to the garage, they turn their heater on, and they have their cigar by themselves putting those earbuds in. They're sitting amongst tonight, six friends. So I've always used North Dakota as that barometer, kind of who that kind of token person is. In my mind, that is one of our lizards out there listening.
So to hear from Lucas that he's experiencing exactly, that puts his headphones in with us and has some friends to smoke with that is exactly why we do this. So here's to his question, as an exclusive Cuban cigar smoker, I was bummed to find out that in this lounge, you are not allowed to smoke your own cigars, adding insult to injury.
Their walk-in was well over humid, uh, humidified, and the [01:09:00] selection was very weak. pH the only things that looked even remotely smokeable were Ashton, VSG. And Padron. 3000 and 4,000. Geez. On top of all that, their markup was egregious to say the least. Padron 4,000 was $25. Wow. What? That's like two and a half times
Bam Bam: what it, well, it sounds like they're the only cigar lounge in the entire state, so they can do whatever they want.
Uh, I
Chef Ricky: think this Liz needs to open up his own cigar lounge
Pagoda: or stick to the garage and invite some friends or get on a
Bam Bam: plane and move out
Gizmo: $25 for a 4,000.
Chef Ricky: That's ridiculous. Wow.
Gizmo: So he says, I ended up paying $20 for A VSG Pegasus, which must have been mismarked as everything else was two to three times MSRP and it was $36 for one ounce of Macallan.
15 double cap. Are you serious As cigar, loungers and lizards with mu, with much more experience than I Is this what I can expect at most cigar lounges? I understand they need to make a profit and I would support their [01:10:00] business, but it would be nice if they just offered a cutting fee or a drink minimum or similar, to allow you to smoke your own cigars.
I'm looking forward to finishing the earlier episodes and I look forward to each week's new pod. Thanks very much. Lizard Lucas in North Dakota, that's an eye-opening email.
Bam Bam: Shocking to say the least.
Rooster: The problem is he doesn't have a choice. Right. If he wants to go to a lounge. Correct. That's, that's what he's gotta deal with.
But ideally, I would avoid any lounge that does not let you smoke your own cigars. Sure. And have a cutting fee.
Bam Bam: Yeah. Look, he has no choice if he wants to be around other smokers, but Yeah. But
Senator: even in that case, everybody has a choice. So like, you know, he drove there out of, because there's no other lounge.
Mm-hmm. But after that experience, do you really think he's gonna go back? No. No. He has to choose from a bunch of shitty cigars that are over humidified. Correct. He's paying a ridiculous price for some of these cigars. That's,
Bam Bam: it's outrageous. I mean,
Senator: you, you can't enjoy that experience and that that lounge will be outta business in a few years time.
[01:11:00] The no question thes
Rooster: just doing a huge disservice
Gizmo: to his,
Rooster: to their clients. Absolutely. They've
Gizmo: checked every box of what not to do. That's correct. For sure. Overpriced the, the cigars over overpriced the alcohol over humidify the cigars. Have a poor selection. Don't offer a cutting fee. Don't let you know your customers smoke their own cigars, which
Chef Ricky: this, this feels like the cigar lounge I went to in Staten Island.
That was also a four hour drive.
Rooster: It was a four hour traffic one way. It was a four hour drive. That was six hours.
Pagoda: I, I was out at the four hour drive. I, I thought that that was very brave. Why would you go to
Rooster: Staten Island?
Chef Ricky: I had to
Bam Bam: go to some business. That was the last time, I think. But hey, lizard Lucas, I'd stay home, procure my spirits. Mm-hmm. My champagne, my wine. Enjoy what you've been doing for year after year after year.
Stay home and relax. Does North Dakota have a crazy,
Pagoda: crazy tobacco tax?
Gizmo: I don't think they [01:12:00] do. I doubt it. I just think that this, this shop must be the only game in town. Yeah. Maybe it's not a volume business where they're having to mark up the folks who do come in to make ends meet. I don't know what's going on, but that, those prices are pretty egregious.
Of
Senator: course, to answer his question, we're all outraged because No, that is not the typical cigar lounge experience. That's correct. Correct. If all lounges were like that, nobody, they'd all be outta business. Nobody.
Bam Bam: That's also correct.
Senator: You know, the difference, we've experienced this firsthand. That's why we, you know, have jokingly, mostly seriously, uh, call our former lounge North Korea, because in many ways it operated like, it sounds like the owner of this lounge.
That's right. A uh, you know, not customer friendly experience. Owning a lounge and owning a retail shop. Our world's different, right. A retail shop, you walk in, you buy some stuff, you get out. A lounge is about hospitality. That's right. If you can't smoke what you want, if you can't enjoy yourself, if you feel like you're getting gouged at every turn, there's [01:13:00] no reason that you would choose to go there to smoke there over your own home.
Right. And just having your friends over. And so, you know, I feel sorry for this listener because clearly they're not gonna be able to get
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Senator: What I think we would all agree is a typical lounge experience, which is sure you pay a little bit of a premium to be in a lounge, but you know, if you wanna smoke something that they don't offer.
There are many lounges that have a cutting fee. I'll happily pay $15 in a cutting fee to smoke a, you know, parus D four than to be forced to buy. Mm-hmm. You know, an Ashton BSG for like $30. That's just crazy. Yeah. Most of these places, obviously alcohol is where any business and hospitality makes their money, but at that price.
But you'd expect it. It's normally commensurate with like a restaurant in that area. Right. So like in New York, obviously, you know, drinks are expensive, so that's where you're really. Paying a, a kind of steep premium. But in New Jersey, you go to a lounge, you know, you get a Macallan 12. You're spending what, like 20 bucks?
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Senator: Ish. Yeah.
Bam Bam: [01:14:00] Yeah. But I don't ever remember paying $32 for a poor 36. 36 for a poor 15 Macallan. 12. No, that was 15. 15. Oh, well yeah, but
Senator: 15. They, they gouge everywhere. That's true. That's true. I'd be more curious what a 12 year would've been there. Yeah,
Bam Bam: me too. But I think you said it right. The operative word is hospitality.
Catering to your patrons that you want to repeat and Exactly. You want them to come back, revisit over and over and over, and become a patron. Right.
Gizmo: And I think, you know, like Senator always said about North Korea, it's like, you know, if you're in the retail business pretending to be in the hospitality business, it's never gonna work.
Rooster: Yeah.
Gizmo: You have to be, if you have a lounge situation, even if you have a retail store. You have to be in the hospitality business first.
Bam Bam: And I'm willing to overpay a little bit for the hospitality, for the right attitude and treatment and camaraderie among a group of men and women that love cigars. As long as the environment's right, but the [01:15:00] environment has to be right.
Senator: Totally. And it's like there are some lounges where you have to buy a cigar and only smoke what they have there. Mm-hmm. And when they have a great selection, there's no, no problem with that. No problem. Exactly. You know, it's like, okay, they have a drone and they have DT off, they have all these different options.
Uh, aino, you know, you name it. There are other lounges where they have that requirement and you look around and they don't have what you like to smoke. And I've been in that situation and a lounge owner that understands the business they're in, I'll use, there's a shop in, uh, a lounge in LA that I went to earlier this year, didn't have much of what I normally like to smoke.
I told a guy, here's what I smoke and what I would like to smoke that I have with me. And he is like, I totally get it. He's like, I would just ask that you buy one stick outta my humidor and you can smoke what you want for the, the rest of the night here. Fair. And I said, absolutely no problem. What did you buy?
I'm curious. Um, do you remember? So the funny thing was. Um, I bought a, uh, he had a padron, but the problem was I was gonna do like a whole session there, so like, cool. I wasn't gonna just smoke padro the [01:16:00] entire time so that I bought, and then, you know, I had spent a good amount on drinks there and the guy was so nice that afterwards he's like, you know, appreciate, you know, your, uh, your patronage here.
Go pick another stick outta my human, or this is on me
Bam Bam: now you're talking and that, that's hospitality, that's ity. Now you're talking hospitality.
Senator: And what I ended up actually picking out was, um, put on 60th. If he had that, I would've dam it off. Oral Blanco. Oh, that's on me, sir. Opus X some crazier, but I actually found in there and I didn't see it the first time I went, um, the, uh, Dunbarton, uh, sin Comiso.
Bam Bam: Oh, that's a great cigar.
Senator: So I, you know, I don't see that everywhere. That's, I picked one of those out
Bam Bam: and I'm like, this is a nice experience. Awesome.
Gizmo: The other thing I do too, and, and this is maybe not the nice thing to do, but anytime I've ever been in a lounge where I'm traveling or visiting where they have a, you cannot smoke your outside cigars there.
What I do is I just walk in the, the, I know what I wanna smoke. I walk in the humidor, I buy something of a similar [01:17:00] size. I come back, I transact, I sit down and I pull my cigar out. Mm-hmm. I rip the band off and I smoke the cigar. Sure. Like, I mean, I don't really give a shit.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Gizmo: I've patronized your business.
I'm gonna, and if I wanna do another one, I go back to the humidor. I grab another, I do the same thing. So I'm gonna patronize the business and I'm not gonna buy, you know, the cheap, like no, like the factory smokes or the, the store brand, or that's $4 or whatever. I'll buy cigars that I wanna smoke and I'll throw 'em in my humid orders.
So I'm buying placebos, I'm buying. Alright. That's good stuff that we smoke. Right. But I, I, I honestly don't give a shit if somebody has a no outside cigars policy. I'm gonna go buy a cigar that's fairly priced that I will enjoy at some point and then I'm gonna bring it back and smoke my own. I'm sorry.
That's what I'm gonna do. There you go. I just don't care.
Chef Ricky: Yep. You know, in contrary to the experience of the club Mac at the bar the other day, and I was lighting and it wasn't lighting, somebody just came, one of the waiters came, he lit my cigar up and they pay attention. And um, if you're at the bar, they don't [01:18:00] charge you a cutting fee.
They get to know your name, you know, they know your drink and it's excellent service. Yeah. You pay a little bit more. But you know, the lounge experience in New York, whether you go to Carnegie or whether you go to, uh, club Mac, I think it's fantastic. Like I said,
Bam Bam: if you get that experience, it's worth paying just a little bit
Chef Ricky: more.
Absolutely. And um, you know, it just changes the experience and you really begin to enjoy the experience of smoking cigars with other people around. As we've discussed many times.
Gizmo: Has anybody been in a lounge like Lizard Lucas is describing here, where they specifically either stop you from smoking a cigar, you brought in, even if you transacted?
Like have you ever gotten to the point that I'm talking about what I do and then someone's still trying to step in? No, kind of just for the, like I have never experienced that point of it.
Bam Bam: I
Gizmo: personally
Bam Bam: have never experienced that. Me neither. I would've been up in arms if that would've happened to
Senator: me.
Yeah. I think we would've read about someone being in jail if this happened. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. That,
Bam Bam: that just, that can't fly.
Senator: Yeah. I agree. [01:19:00] I have seen some strange stuff where, I'm trying to remember where, this was a very random city, um, to sit. So they have a retail shop and they call it a lounge, but I mean, it, it's nothing nice.
It, it's just chairs right next to the humidor, Minnesota, maybe. No, no.
Bam Bam: I'm remembering
Senator: the story. And you had to, it's the silliest fee. You had to pay $10 for an annual membership to sit down there and smoke. What? That's somewhere in North Carolina, isn't
Rooster: it? Oh, it could be. I was at one where that's what the case was.
10 10, 10. Yes. You knows what I'm talking about.
Gizmo: Yeah, it's gotta be, it's probably North Carolina. I just
Bam Bam: think it is North Carolina.
Gizmo: Are they trying to skirt around some like law or something with the $10 that's have Charlotte
Bam Bam: somewhere
Rooster: idea
Senator: You had a Padron that night there? It could be. I mean, I've been to [01:20:00] Charlotte a number of times.
Unless he didn't know what Daniel meant.
Gizmo: I mean $10 a year, that's gotta be skirting some sort of law or That's weird. That's weird. It a sort of
Senator: local, you know, I'm like, so you telling me I have to pay $10 and for an entire year I can sit here anytime? And he's like, yeah. I'm like, okay, yours are 10 bucks.
I mean,
Rooster: and I remember them being, they had a decent amount of cigars and a decent collection.
Senator: Yeah. We may have been in the same place. That would be really funny. I mean, it was a nice lounge. Yeah. Wow. Cool. Simple but nice. Yeah. They had a bar. They had a bar. Yeah. I think it was upstairs. Upstairs. Oh no, no.
Mine was downstairs. Huh. Lizard lizards get around the right bar. Lizards get around. They get around.
Gizmo: But you know, it's like every lounge is a different experience, man. You never know what you're walking into. It could be the most beautiful place and the worst hospitality and you could walk into a total dive in a basement, you know?
And it's just the greatest experience. Yeah. You know, it's all about the hospitality. Correct.
Senator: Oh, I'll give one last hospitality story. So San Francisco, and we
Bam Bam: know [01:21:00] this story,
Senator: I don't know if I've told this on the pod,
Bam Bam: no.
Senator: San Francisco. There is one cigar lounge that is grandfathered
Bam Bam: in
Senator: San Francisco is a world class city.
Like the fact that there's only one lounge is insanity. Very,
Bam Bam: it is. It's a cosmopolitan town. Exactly. Yeah.
Senator: Um, I'm, I'm there on business with a group of friends of mine, uh, who I was at at night meeting up with that all live in San Francisco. We smoked probably five cigars a piece. Um, each probably had like six or seven drinks you can imagine.
The tab was significant. It's a big group. I'm there on business. I'm, I'm picking up the tab. One friend of mine does not drink alcohol. Brewster
one friend of mine does not drink alcohol, but smoke cigars, smoking plenty of cigars. The policy [01:22:00] at this place is there's, uh, a one or two drink minimum per person. Now I get the bill. The bill is probably like a thousand bucks. We are easily one of the best, if not the best customer in that place. That night.
I get the bill and I look at the bill and I'm like, what is this weird, like, fee at the bottom? So I like call someone over. I said, excuse me, what is this? And this rude woman who, uh, apparently is like a minority owner in this place and is the only one of these owners that actually like works in there.
And she, uh, she goes. He didn't drink and she like points to my friend, oh boy. I said, he doesn't drink alcohol. I said, he smoked however many cigars. And I said, your drink minimum is, let's say it's two drinks per person. I said, we have well exceeded two drinks per person. Including him. Including him. Oh, correct.
I mean, we could have had five more people there would've, we would've met the minimum. She goes, doesn't matter, it's per person. He didn't drink.
Rooster: Wow. Wow.
Senator: Awful. And I said, so you're gonna add, that's brutal, man. That
Bam Bam: is tax
Senator: an extra, whether it was like [01:23:00] 20 or $40 on my tab because a friend of mine doesn't drink when we've spent way more than we were required to on drinks here.
And I left absolutely no tip. No tip. That's so what's, and I said, I said, the choice is yours. I'm like, either you can do the right thing and I'll do the right thing by your place, or you cannot, and that's your choice. And she wouldn't budge. And I said, there's no tip we left. This woman is so psychotic.
She's yelling and cursing as you're leaving outside down the street as we're leaving. Jeez on. And, and I'm just sitting there laughing to myself like, we spent more money in this place than anyone there that night. And that's the treat. Aw, unbelievable. In San Francisco, that's, that's
Rooster: not right. That's not right.
Disgraceful. Wow. I'm surprised that after having seven drinks, you are actually looking at the bill. No, I can handle my It's very fastidious.
Gizmo: Very fastidious as we know. That's
Rooster: correct. So you actually counted how many drinks each person. There was a fee. So weird fee at the bottom.
Senator: That's what I, I didn't even, I mean, they could have put zillion drinks, could or
Rooster: two drinks and given it to you guys.
That's
Bam Bam: the, uh, then it would've been Okay. Is [01:24:00] that the split wise fee
Gizmo: Inan? Yeah. That I, I just don't understand being so principle like so stuck in your ways that you can't overlook someone that's sober. Maybe they're the designated driver. I'm sorry. If Senator and five friends are sitting there drinking six or seven or eight drinks each and there's one guy that you know is gonna be the designated driver or the guy to make sure everybody's good.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Gizmo: Wouldn't you wanna celebrate that? Take care of the group. I think that's a, that's a lawsuit instead of busting balls. I agree with you guys. They
Rooster: can't, they can't do that. When you gonna try to force this guy outta sobriety doesn't do that. No,
Pagoda: no, absolutely not mean you can't make somebody drink.
Thanks Rooster One. That's just crazy. What what Anejo would do is create some expensive, a mocktail mocktail that go somebody. And you guys, do
Rooster: you have some? Uh, yeah, we nice mocktails.
Senator: But that's where, like, to your point Rooster, like if he just ordered two alcoholic drinks, even though, and, and just didn't drink them,
Pagoda: right, the same
Senator: thing.
That's okay. But the fact that we ordered them [01:25:00] and he didn't physically place the, like, who cares? It's all on one tab,
Pagoda: correct? I'm sorry, not micromanaging, but appropriately priced. Correct.
Gizmo: All right boys, congratulations again to Lizard Lucas, who's gonna be our lizard of the week. Like I said, anybody out there can win.
So please continue riding us. And boys, we are coming to the end of our evening with the domain Cialis Serco from 2020 and the Cohiba Siglo two from UAO August 19, the Redux on this cigar. Any final thoughts here before we move into the ratings portion of our program?
Pagoda: I, I thought for me it punched well above its weight class.
I was, uh, surprised at, uh, how much flavor it developed, how much, uh, how much it delivered, how much strength it delivered. Um, and that's just the, the wine. Yeah, I'll save the rest from my review.
Gizmo: I'm very happy with the pairing tonight. Yeah, agreed. I, I thought it was agreed. A home run. Agreed. You know, Senator and I were talking about doing a white wine, doing a red wine, doing one of each, [01:26:00] and I think that landing on this senator was the right move for this cigar.
Not just because of its format being smaller, but also the flavor profile. It was perfect.
Bam Bam: Yeah. And I'm sure you had the mark in mind,
Senator: right? Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're gonna do a white wine with a Cuban cigar, this is the one, I mean, Cohiba is a perfect candidate for that. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo: Alright, boys, it's time now to move into the formal liquoring tonight on the domain.
Egali a cerico from 2020. Bam. Bam. You're up.
Bam Bam: So I'm gonna give this, uh, very strong 10. Honestly, it's, it's, it's a delicious white it. If you wanna talk about something that punches above its weight class, it's got a lot of body and a beautiful smooth delivery. There's dryness as I noted, but that very faint hit of fruit on the finish.
Salty minerality on the front. It is probably one of the best wines I've ever had. Whites and I would probably, in addition to a cohiba, the other [01:27:00] cigar I'd probably have would have this with is the Coronas Clara. I'd like to try it with that cigar. Um, that's a good call. There's
Senator: another candidate that you
Bam Bam: love and of the Schwa Supreme.
There it is. I think that would
Gizmo: be a home run. Can I throw another one out there? I'd like to try it with the Sancho Ponza Deso we did a few weeks ago.
Bam Bam: Yeah.
Gizmo: Oh yeah. That cigar was, I think that cigar would stand right next to this. I don't disagree with that. Now obviously it doesn't have six years of age and still it's, doesn't have the complexity of this still, but I do think it would stand up nicely to this.
Yeah. So for me it's a 10. Very nice. Yeah. Chef Ricky.
Pagoda: Yeah, I'm right there at a 10. Uh, I think the, the saltiness here, uh, was surprising. Uh, but it was perfectly executed with some creaminess. It was extremely buttery. And then there was some light hints of peach at the end. And then the second bottle got even somewhat sweeter in the first bottle.
It was more like honeydew. Um, so I, I, I love, I love the body. I love the color of the swine. I love how I delivered it. The [01:28:00] price point's phenomenal. You know, I think that honeydews right on the money. Yeah. Did you get it on the
Bam Bam: first bottle as well? I did. Yeah. I felt that was probably more of what I got than the peach.
Can I ask a question on that?
Senator: Do you know why? Do you know why you probably got that on the second and not the first temperature? Temperature wise? Temperature, yeah, probably temperature. That's what I was gonna ask second. The second came down in temperature more than that first bottle. Got it, dude. So it opened up even more.
More, yeah. The
Bam Bam: honey de is
Pagoda: right on the money. 'cause it did, it did feel even richer than the pre then the first bottle. And Yeah. The, yeah. To your point, the, the drop in temperature helped. So I
Senator: imagine drinking this, I mean, we've talked about, obviously it's a fantastic summer wine, but even in the fall, imagine having this with Turkey on Thanksgiving.
Of course. Oh
Pagoda: yeah.
Senator: Oh yeah. Of lamb dunk.
Bam Bam: That's a great idea. Oh yeah.
Pagoda: Yep. And I love your pairing with lobster. When, when Oh, that as well. When band mentioned oysters earlier, my head was going right to lobster and I, yeah, I could see this, you know, just drawing butter and, and just how everything would go great.
A,
Bam Bam: a beautifully done scallop dish. [01:29:00]
Pagoda: Mm-hmm. I agree with that. Oh. Oh yeah.
Gizmo: All right. Pagoda.
Chef Ricky: Yeah, it's a 10 for me. I think it's a well-balanced, you know, I always try and figure out what well-balanced often means. And, uh, like I'm not a big, uh, drinker of wine, as many people know, and especially white wine. Um, uh.
I do love champagne, but having white wine, I think, uh, Senator, this is the one I think I might have asked you for the recommendation. You know, we, we drank it I think a few years ago, and then I was in Bottle King and I said I loved it so much. It's, it's really fantastic. I think it's really easy. The other thing I'm also, uh, thinking about is like, um, I was, uh, at a barbecue just over the weekend.
And, um, a friend of mine was asking for suggestions for white wine. And, you know, this is just a perfect thing. I think most people would dislike it. It's, it's a very easy and a very comfortable wine to drink and, you know, there's no sharpness. There's, it's just so, so good and easy, easy drink. It's an easy to drink wine.
It's beautiful. It's,
Bam Bam: [01:30:00] it's an easy drink, but it's a very mature experience. Flavorful, yes. It's a
Chef Ricky: little bit of minerality. So it's a little, there's elegance cream there.
Bam Bam: You know, a an amateur, someone that's never had a white, it'd be great for them, but I'm not sure if they'd understand what they were drinking.
They may not understand
Pagoda: that salty minerality. I don't know. In the beginning
Senator: they wouldn't understand it, but all of the points I think are very valid in that, like Yeah, agreed. What pagoda iss saying is because it's so smooth and how it delivers the flavor. Yeah. Like a novice wine drinker would say like, oh, this is great.
This is easy. So drinkable. Sure. And then for more experienced drinker, they'd have that same feeling, but they'd actually be able to pick out all the notes that we've discussed here. The complexity that's, that exists there. Yeah. And the
Chef Ricky: viscosity is just perfect. It is, you know, it's not too light, it's not too heavy.
It's, you know, it's not chardonnay light with sharpen.
Bam Bam: It's just fantastic. And the cool, if you have this on your table at dinner and it, like you, Senator and Ru and, uh, chef mentioned earlier as it comes down in temperature, it actually does get better. Yeah.
Pagoda: You know, and, and this is a great point. I, I meant to ask this question [01:31:00] earlier and I forgot until Pagoda just mentioned barbecue.
Does this wine touch oak at all? Ah, that's a good question. I'm not sure, I was curious to know if they 'cause, 'cause there were even parts or moments in this wine where I was getting light smokiness. Not anything that was super pronounced, but there was a hint of it and I was curious to know if, uh, this was aged in oak at all.
Bam Bam: Hmm. Would you have this with barbecue?
Pagoda: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I would totally do this with barbecue. Yeah. Like, well done barbecue. I'm not talking about like, of course, of course. Amateur park barbecue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything's charred and burnt and, yeah.
Bam Bam: Okay.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Chef Ricky: And delicate enough where, you know, you really enjoyed the flavor of this, but yet when you smoked the Koba mm-hmm.
You know, you were able to experience the f the, the flavors of, uh, the cigar as well. Yeah. They, they were very complimentary. They were very complimentary. They was fantastic. Yeah. Great pairing as well. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Really wild.
Senator: So fermentation in steel tanks, maturation in French oak barrels, French oak.
Look at that chef. Look
Gizmo: at him calling out [01:32:00] oak. That fucking top knot. We have a professional around here. The top knot. It's pulling his brain power together. That's correct. It's giving him some air up there. A lot of cooling power.
Pagoda: Correct.
Chef Ricky: I think there's a lot of blood flow there because he's tightened his bone.
Alright, who's next? Alright. Alright. Just kidding. Let's go. Okay, I'll leave it there.
Gizmo: So boys, for me it's also a 10. I, I mean, I'm blown away by this and, and the reason why I say that is not because I'm a a a, you know, you know, experienced wine guy, especially with white wines. But any white wine I've, I've had outside of champagne has always felt blah to me.
Mm-hmm. It's felt light. My wife loves Sauvignon Blanc. Every time I taste a sip of that, it's like I'm, I'm tasting the flavor that's yelling at me from the other room. Like, it's never there with me. And I, I feel like this is the first white wine that as a red wine guy, as a, you know, a spirit guy, as, as we all are.
This is the [01:33:00] first one that really talks to me. And it keeps your attention. And it keeps my attention. Yeah. And it's rich. And it's full. Yep. And it's interesting. But like you said earlier, bam, I think you said something like, and and the way I'm gonna paraphrase it, it's not trying too hard.
Bam Bam: No.
Gizmo: Like it's not punching its way through.
Correct. It's just letting it do you know, it's doing its thing. That's correct. Take it or leave it. And for what we do here, of course under our microscope of pairing with cigars, I think this is an unbelievable pairing for cigars. Agreed. And I think, I always think about this as we get into our ratings. I think this can expand well beyond Cuban cigars.
I think Hondura Cigars would do great with this. Sure. Dominican cigars would do great with this. Mm-hmm. And I would argue even some Nick and Rodan cigars would do very well with this.
Pagoda: Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: I really believe that. I really believe that I could, I could see this wine us to say that about a white.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Gizmo: That is pretty wild. So for me and all those reasons, it's a 10. I'm blown away by this. A erco is a home run. I think anybody [01:34:00] out there who loves red wine, who doesn't love white wine, should be chasing down a erco. That is a very strong 10 from me, Senator.
Senator: So that's my favorite comment. I've heard the last part of what you just said there, because I have never been a lover of white wine.
I've always been a lover of red wine and champagne. This was the first white wine, and still to this day that excited me about white wine in a way. Nothing else has. I have purchased more of this than any white wine by far. Um, and even after I found this, you know, years ago and started exploring white wine more, I still have the same love for this wine that I did then and haven't found anything that is more satisfying than it, it's my absolute categorical favorite white wine.
Um, it is a 10. I'm thrilled to see that this got a 10 all the way around. Sure. Um, it [01:35:00] is the most balanced, just typically made bottle of white in the sense that you get this unique minerality that is characteristic of a cerico from Santorini with some of the, you know, sweeter stone fruit kind of notes that are typical in an AErica, um, as this ages the honey.
Do. You mentioned when you have this younger. It's a bit brighter. You don't get as much of like that kind of honey concentrated, concentrated finish. Mm-hmm. With age, it produces that. Um, it's wild to me. I mean, honestly I was a little bit nervous because again, white wine does not age what particularly?
Well, you know, high end white wine. I'm talking way more than this. Bottle costs does age really well. And, uh, you know, the fact that I've even had this for, you know, almost five years, I'm like, I was a little [01:36:00] worried. Tried it. Thankfully before we, uh, started the pod and it drank the way it's supposed to.
That's against the rules, by the way, but go ahead. Oh, we do that every week for the behind the curtain. Look still against the rules.
Bam Bam: I don't do it by the way.
Senator: Every week. False. Every week. You're the first one. Be's the first one. If it's a spirit, he goes, this is motor oil, clean brake parts with this.
Bam Bam: But then I end up liking it.
Yeah.
Senator: But I'm even looking on their website. I mean, it says aging potential 10 plus years. Wow. I can't wait to see. Wow.
Pagoda: Must, I think must get saw turns like or something. 10 years from That's insane. It's
Senator: crazy. I mean, I probably now have maybe eight bottles left. I'm definitely gonna tuck away half of those for, there's five of us here.
We could all get one. You could still keep three. That's correct. Or,
Bam Bam: or we're gonna see a premium on Splitwise. That is,
Chef Ricky: wouldn't that be great? Like with one cigar of that? Why don't you give one cigar and a bottle eat? That'd be great.
Senator: Yeah. But thi this is the beauty of, you know, [01:37:00] I, I love that everyone here who, when we started this journey, you know, there were many not non wine drinkers in the room.
That's correct. And the fact that now everyone can appreciate this. I mean, I said to GIZ when I was deciding, you know, what, uh, why we were gonna pair on this. The current vintage is 2024, and I'm like, I really don't wanna part with 2020. I've had this for a long time. I had enough bottles. And the fact that everyone can enjoy it, that's all that matters.
And so I'm thrilled that everyone, it, everyone could appreciate it. Oh yeah. If I was with a group of friends who couldn't and I wasted two bottles that, again, you will not find this vintage anywhere, period. Wow. It's sold out years ago. And that's the beauty and the frustrating part of wine. When you get a good vintage, you gotta enjoy it.
And that's it. It's gone. That's crazy. And the last bottle I have of this vintage will be very sad, but I have so much confidence in this vineyard. I mean, I'm intentionally gonna go out and buy the 2024 to try it. I'm sure they're all awesome, but it's really fun to know that like most red wines I have in [01:38:00] my cellar, I can leave this thing for years and just watch it mature and still enjoy it.
So I think any lizard who likes white wine or wants to explore white wine, this is your entry point. This is your gateway. And I would put this up against whites that are way more expensive than 40 bucks a bottle. I've yet to find even a very, very serious wine drinker that I've given this to that hasn't said, wow, what is this and where is this from?
So, um, it's got a ton of merit and I think that there are so many Cuban cigars and even many, uh, you know, medium bodied, new world cigars that this would go, uh, paired perfectly with. Awesome.
Gizmo: So it's a 10,
Senator: 10.
Gizmo: Just, I'm,
Senator: I'm
Gizmo: just taking a guess. All right. Alright. Boys is very obvious. The form liquor rating tonight on the domain Segals a Erko vintage 2020 is a perfect 10.0.[01:39:00]
A nice debut, boys. I'm gonna clap Yeah. For our first white wine on the pod. Absolutely. Very nice, Senator. Well done. Thank you. And, uh, a ergo what a what a home run.
Bam Bam: Big time.
Gizmo: Wow. We gotta bring more of those in. Correct. Honestly, I think listeners listen at $40 a bottle. None of us, by the way, in our review talked about the price.
Bam Bam: That's true.
Gizmo: Because we were so focused on flavor and how it paired for $40 to have a, a perfect 10 tonight. Yep. To
Pagoda: steal
Gizmo: out of a white wine that we've never had on this podcast. Correct. 196 episodes in.
Pagoda: That's correct. I
Gizmo: mean, we're just like, we're, it's like the all star game right now. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Pagoda: I can't wait to go into Total Wine or my local liquor store and act like I know what the fuck I'm talking about.
You better be assertive when you order the
Senator: assertive, but it's very funny. I, I just like, if I were in the wine business in the United States, I would really be trying to figure out how to grow Aerco in California.
Bam Bam: Mm. Yeah. Makes sense. If
Senator: they can figure this out, it [01:40:00] will be a home run. Yeah. This grape. Is special or Cuba.
Gizmo: Good luck with that rooster. Yeah. Good luck getting it outta there. Alright, boy. Speaking of Cuba, it's time to do the formal leisure rating tonight on the Cohiba Siglo two from 2019, rooster Europe. Roosted, whos, so you could have a full bottle
Rooster: of wine for 40 bucks, so you could have the cigar Correct. Or you could have both.
Yeah. Correct. 80 bucks.
Pagoda: It's still cheaper than Lizard Lucas's trip to the uh, that's very true. I have more lizard Lucas. Man, I have a
Rooster: feeling Lucas didn't drive, he rode his horse four hours, man. I mean,
Gizmo: wow. That's such a bummer to me, man. Yeah, it's crazy. It's
Pagoda: two tanks of gas. It's crazy. $40 Dr. 10 Kilo puppy.
Okay. Okay. Oh, yes, yes. Okay. Okay.
Rooster: I mean, this, this cigar was absolutely delicious for a small cigar. What? It delivered, [01:41:00] I mean, it, it, I'm still smoking it. It's, you know, it's, it is delicious. The right on the light. It was creamy. There was notes of honey. There was also a little faint white pepper that kind of lasted, like throughout the cigar for me.
The cigar actually got better at the midway point. It, it was really well balanced. Uh, great smoke output, no draw issues, perfectly rolled. Uh, the, I mean, it's, it's a merit to the cigar that, you know, even after, after five years, I mean, how well this has smoked. And I'm just curious how, how good a fresh box of Cohiba Cilo twos are right now.
It'd be, you know, it'd be nice comparison to do that. So I'm at a solid nine for the cigar because there's, there are some other cigars in this size that I prefer, especially at this price point. You know, I'm thinking of like the smaller Ramona Aons, the Club Corona. The [01:42:00] Club Corona is a delicious cigar.
It is delicious. The, the small Bolivar, petite Corona, that's also very good. Uh, h up and half Corona. I mean, those are all great smokes. Mm-hmm. I mean, for this, for this small cigar, for 40 bucks, it's, it's, it's a little high, but it is after all a cohiba and, and you know, you get what you pay for sometimes.
So I'm at a nine.
Senator: All right, Senator. So I'm with Rooster. I'm also at a nine. Uh, the only reason it's not a 10 is the price. This cigar. Checks just about every box. Um, the construction was flawless, nice straw, great smoke output, razor sharp burn. The flavor was complex all the way through. I, I'm smoking this till my fingers are burning and I'm still getting distinct notes.
It's in no way muddled. Um, age has really done this well. There's nothing harsh at all about this cigar. As someone who [01:43:00] likes a more flavorful Cuban cigar, obviously Parus is my favorite. Marco, I wouldn't have guessed if this weren't banded. I mean the cohiba DNA is there, but just the like intensity of the flavor
Pagoda: Yeah.
Senator: Is not what I typically associate with Cohiba. And that was a really welcome change or show of like the range that they can have in their line. It was surprising hugely. The
Rooster: fullness was surprising. Very. I didn't really Yeah. You know, expect it to be. And we noted that medium, full
Bam Bam: size. We noted that right off the light and as we went through how surprising it was all the way to the end.
Senator: Yeah. I mean, I've honestly never had a cohiba with this much flavor. That's right, that's true. Not one. And, uh, that it very much speaks to like my palate and what I typically pursue. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of merit. It, it's such a shame to discover this at this time where. The price is, you know, a bit prohibitive for this size.
I mean, I'm not gonna go out and spend $40 on a stick this [01:44:00] small, but, um, man, I wish I would've seen, you know, I wish I would knew this years ago. Years ago, where we loaded up. 'cause this is definitely something that I would've smoked regularly. Alright,
Gizmo: boys. So for me it's a 10 and I'll tell you why I'm disappointed in the nines because I think I am for a petite corona.
Can I just
Bam Bam: say I'm in fucking lockstep with you right now
Gizmo: For a petite Corona, for senator to be talking an hour and 45 minutes in that it's burning his fingers and still giving him excellent flavor. I end, I I'm sorry for an hour and 40, 45 minutes. I don't think 40, $40 is a crazy price. I understand the cigar is small, but for what it delivered tonight, I, I just thought it was perfect.
I don't, I don't know how you find a better petite corona coming outta Cuba. Mm-hmm. I know the folks love petite Coronas. They love the pga, they love the money for this is on another level, and I think it proves why people let Cohiba sit for [01:45:00] 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 years tonight, at almost six years. I get why.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Gizmo: Now the price is a problem. When you're buying it at that price, you have to sit on it. But for what it is in the moment, it was excellent from the light, it was perfect. That honey thing that was happening initially, the graham cracker through the retro hell, moving to what I felt was like a brown sugar or like you said, like a brown sweet sugar butter.
A
Bam Bam: sweet brown butter.
Gizmo: Yeah, it was, it was excellent. It smoked to me like a large format cigar. It tasted like that. Obviously in the hand it didn't feel like that, but it, there was a disconnect between the flavor and how small this little packaged cigar was. It was like, it was like the little cigar that could, and I thought, you know, it really delivered tonight after all this age.
It was mature, it was well-rounded. You know, the flavor, the flavors were married together in only a way the time can provide. And I think that three and a half years since we last smoked an exact code to this [01:46:00] box, it proves why time really, really improves Cuban cigars, especially ones that are of a, a little bit older age than the ones that are coming out now.
Mm-hmm. So for me and all those reasons, I'm very, very thrilled with this cigar tonight. It's a
Senator: 10, one thing I wanna say on that. Yep. So I get why you gave it a 10. I think everything you said is legitimate. The only thing to have to yourself age this cigar for five years, it's obscene at a $40 price point to have this experience.
Mm-hmm. I'd be more inclined to round up to a 10 if I could buy it at $40, which is already very high for a petite corona. I mean, that'd be the most expensive petite Corona any of us would regularly pick up. That's true. If I could, and even if I was willing to make that leap, but immediately upon paying 40 bucks for it, get this experience, I'd be more inclined to round up to attend the fact that I would have to pay $40 to have the distinct pleasure of [01:47:00] waiting and holding it for five years.
Yeah. But to have this experience, 2019,
Rooster: he paid, let's say $16 for this, what we're talking about
Gizmo: now. But let me, let me make a point, I'll make a counterpoint specific to what you're talking about. Over the last year on this podcast, we have smoked fresh Cuban cigars. Mm-hmm. And we have noted, including the Romeo, Juliet, the Churchill two weeks ago.
Yeah. We have noted how much better recent stock is smoking. Now. That's true. And I think it's because they're spending the time in fermentation. They're spending the time on construction and blending. Blending is better. Whatever's going on there is better. So my argument to what you're saying, Senator, is.
I would say for a cigar that's 20 23, 20 24, 20 25, you may only need two years or a year, 18 months or 12 months to get what we had tonight. You don't know that, but you're hoping for that.
Senator: I mean, based on, and so far the data based on what's happening on data is trending in that direction, but we can't be certain of that.
So all I'm saying is if we try and, and Rooster said like, I would like, I'd be curious what a [01:48:00] younger one of these smokes, like if we try a young one and it delivers this experience, it would be a 10. There's no question. I'll give you a 10. It'd be a 10. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But that's the, I just wanted to tease that out 'cause that's what, fair enough.
What held me back from rounding up.
Bam Bam: Fair enough. Makes sense. Good arguments.
Senator: Alright,
Bam Bam: pagoda.
Chef Ricky: Sure. You know, I've been between a nine and 10 all along and you know, you mentioned the RYJ Churchill, that's also about 40 bucks. Yes. Churchill. And in, in this, right. What I found was I was smoking like an amateur in a way because I was really enjoying the flavor profile.
And while I was trying to be really slow, um, you know, I was smoking a bit faster than most of you guys. So then I was holding it to bed and then it was dying out. Well that's not, that's
Bam Bam: not Imma amateurish. I mean, you love the cigar. Cigar. Yeah. It, it's, it makes sense.
Chef Ricky: So on a typical, on a typical day, I think I would smoke this within 40 minutes, maybe 45 minutes max.
And so then you're considering the price point. So I had to touch it up at least three times because I let it cool. Yet I was one of the first ones to finish it. So just the way I smoke, I thought. Will I go out and buy a $40, [01:49:00] you know, like a petite Corona? I don't know. I'm not sure. Yeah. Meaning if it's in front of me, maybe.
Um, but I think that's so, but I've been debating between the nine and 10 in terms of the merits. Wow. I was like holding it by my fingernails. And the smoke output was still there. Yeah. The flavor profile was still there. That's right. And it's such a, it's like a debate in my head that you enjoy cigar so much and yet, you know, the price is just not, and you know, like, especially because when we smoked the RYJ, I think I rated that at 10 as well.
You did? Yeah. And, um, I think, you know, just in terms of the value, and I kind of agree with Senator on this in terms of value, I think, uh, I would rate it as a nine today. All right. Chef Ricky,
Pagoda: this is a little difficult for me. I, I Peer pressure. No, I make sure. So peer pressure? No. None at all. No. For me there is because I was at an eight.
Senator: Eight. You, whoa. You see? [01:50:00] Well, there's no peer pressure. No one else gave it an eight.
Pagoda: You see, I like that.
Rooster: It was a little pungent.
Pagoda: Nove noves. Uh, yeah, for me. Alright. So, you know, especially for the co cohiba mark, I'm, I'm a newbie. Uh, you know, this is maybe my fourth or fifth one. This is not what I've come to expect from the Cohiba line.
Um, it was a little bit more aggressive than I expected it to be, but at the same time, I love that because it is a $40 petite Corona. So I felt like it delivered a lot and it gave me a lot, but it gave me a lot more than I was expecting from this market and from this size. And it did it in a way that was sharp.
I didn't get that rounded experience that everyone else is talking about. And I really wanted it because of the six years of age. Right. So for me, if I'm hearing it's sitting for that long, I'm expecting a round balanced, developed flavor, sort of like the wine we had. Um, now why did it become a nine? [01:51:00] For me, it was a pairing.
When I had this with the wine, that's when the wine sort of tamed those sharper edges for me. But that white pepper spice, you
Bam Bam: think the wine propped up your cigar experience
Pagoda: is
Bam Bam: what you're saying? A hundred percent. Oh
Pagoda: wow. Hundred percent. That's
Bam Bam: crazy.
Gizmo: I feel bad. He definitely got the weakest of the bunch on the cigar.
You, he would have to have. Yeah,
Pagoda: it, it, yeah. I didn't have like the beautiful white ash that I've come to expect from Okah Hiba. I didn't, you know, there were some certain things that were a little surprising to me, but the wine definitely elevated the cigar and for me it put it at a nine. But yeah, 40 bucks.
What I can say though, that price seems crazy. It delivers and punches at a, you know, at, at a weight way above its class. So in that regard, you know, it did well for me. Uh, but I personally wanted a rounder, smoother experience, especially hearing the absurd amount of age on the stick.
Chef Ricky: You, you know, the smoke output was as good of the new world.
Yeah. The
Pagoda: smoke output was smoke. Apple was insane. It was among some of the best we
Rooster: get outta a small form. Absolutely. It was well [01:52:00] constructed.
Chef Ricky: Very well constructed.
Bam Bam: So
Pagoda: yeah,
Bam Bam: for me it's a nine. Okay. Bam. First, senator, thank you for the final rationings of this incredible white that we're drinking. No, thank you.
That was perfect. He does
Senator: such a great job. Very well done. I mean, I saw you taking in the nose. The thing I love about this as a lover of champagne, it's so aromatic. It is champagne, like in the nose. Very,
Bam Bam: very, very much so. Yeah. This is delicious. This is so I have to, so it's my turn. Yeah. Correct. You wanna try?
Okay. I'm, I'm surprised at the nines, I have to admit. I agree. Now we are drinking this incredible wine. We didn't once mention that it was a $40 bottle, which is, that's a premium cost. And of course, yes, you're getting more products. I mean,
Senator: it's not in the sense that any premium red starts at 50 bucks. I
Bam Bam: understand, but we didn't mention the price on this once.
And you're getting more product in that bottle than you are in this. Yeah. The value diminutive, beautiful cube, uh, Coheed [01:53:00] that we smoked. But you can't say that you didn't get. I got. The ultimate aged Cuban cigar experience tonight for what it is. That's exactly what I think I got. And for that reason, I'm at a flat 10 because of the expo experience that I had.
Now, I didn't age this thing for six years. Gizmo did. You're welcome. Now I understand, yes. If I'm gonna go buy this, do I have to sit on it for maybe 1, 2, 6 years? Possibly. But for the experience in the room, it was just, it was almost unparalleled what I got tonight. And everything you all described was very accurate.
But because of the way it smoked and it smoked like a beautifully aged Cuban, I, I, I
Rooster: don't know how. So, so you are okay with buying a $40 per steak, paying almost $1,100 for a box.
Bam Bam: I didn't care. And
Rooster: sit for six years and have, I didn't care how experience,
Bam Bam: I didn't care how much the cigar cost as I was smoking it, because it was just so incredibly delicious.
And it had that beautiful age [01:54:00] profile. The retro hale was off the charts,
Senator: hasn't bam said in prior episodes, like, I can't give a $40 a cigarette. It's 40 some more, a 10 I
Bam Bam: have. But look, that sweet brown butter, when, have you ever gotten that?
Gizmo: I think that's the first time we ever called it out. I don't think I've ever, and Graham cracker through the nose.
Bam Bam: Well, that's common in a lot of Cubans, but when in combination of that brown butter, but also the way it's smoked, I, I, I, I can't see how this is not a tent tonight. Around the room. So I know it costs a lot of money and I know it takes years to get there, but it's a special cigar.
Rooster: We're splitting hairs.
Bam Bam: It's a, we are, it's a, it is a special cigar for the way it's smoked for me, so it's a 10.
Gizmo: Alright, boys. The formal lizard rating tonight on the Cohiba SLA two. It's a 9.3.
Chef Ricky: Oh, wow. I glad it's no 10. It's, I
Gizmo: wanna say one thing before we go to the other ratings on this. I, I think Rooster again, arguing BA's point about the rating here, I think dismissing the trend of data with recent Cuban cigars, I don't think a recent box of cubit cigars, if you bought it today, I don't think it needs five, six years.
So [01:55:00] that's
Rooster: what I'm curious about. I think we probably need to, if we smoke a, a cohiba No, it should be, it should be like. Right away. That's how it's been.
Senator: I just wanna be clear. I, I have, I think the rating, the aggregate that's spot on rating is That's good. Perfect. It's good rating. So let's still argue about it.
And I say that exactly, I say that because if I'm gonna give a cigar a 10, it's a cigar that I want to smoke all the time. I can't get
Bam Bam: enough of, you wouldn't smoke that cigar all the time, regardless of what it costs and how many years you've gotta get it to that point. This,
Senator: this cigar didn't grab me in a way that I need it every single day in the way that, oh, I Aron X these, you give this to me every day.
I'm a very happy, those cigars, like I need, I can't, I feel like I can't live without those cigars every day. This cigar was spectacular. I'm not saying it is not a top class cigar.
Bam Bam: No. You gave it a nine. It's a great score. E
Senator: exactly. It's just, it didn't ha like a Ted is absolute, utter perfection, which
Bam Bam: I think it was, it
Senator: [01:56:00] didn't grab me in the same way as those other cigars, I've given a 10, even an eight, $10 stick.
I've given a 10 like, you know, an aino in the past that like I smoke religiously every day and I can't imagine not having it just doesn't have that. Perfect thing that grabs my pallet. It works in that way that nonetheless it's, I mean, a dollar, dollar
Rooster: for dollar, but hold on. Exclusive oil is better than the cigar.
Bam Bam: Correct. If you're gonna compare it that way, maybe, but no, he's right. I agree with that. Come on just
Senator: said dollar for dollar. But listen, it's like pound for pallet. Same thing for this, for this. It delivers more if you get more, but this ola, exactly that. That little delivers more
Bam Bam: for less. That little vitola that we got out punched its weight class many, many times over.
I agree. For all the reasons that we discussed, I think it's so unfair to unusual
Gizmo: to an exclusive why we're not, it's an unusual, I'll give you co unusual
Senator: experience. I'll give you a comparison. This is a small cigar, right? Short smoke, [01:57:00] uh, an up man half Corona that we all love. That's a fraction of this price.
I would take an up man half Corona happily any day alongside that. I disagree If someone, if I needed my last smoke of the night and someone said no, I'm not pulling out cilo two's my last smoke. It's a different sort. Irritation.
Gizmo: Not, that's correct. This is a, it's a small ci. Cigar is all I'm saying this, I think
Rooster: this fits for a last cigar because it's full.
It's, it's fuller. So now, oh,
Bam Bam: now you're arguing our point by the way, because
Senator: No, what I'm, the point is I compared it to a last smoke. If you were to have an up and half Corona and this roosters validating this, they're both, both can be a last cigar gizmo. Doesn't think it can, don't rooster. And so I feel that way and I think you're now actually agreeing that.
I would never say, no,
Bam Bam: I'm not. If I had, if I had a box or two or three of those. I would probably take this over the half Corona because of what you got. The point is you got so much outta outta dollar $4. Well I'm putting money aside. I am in my, we never do. I just in my ratings think that I do put
Gizmo: it aside some time to sign.
But I think the cigar, I think the [01:58:00] cigar, especially with at, at this mature point, gave us a really complex, interesting experience. And I understand the price
Bam Bam: live for the moment, but, and if we can rate it for the moment, it's an, it's an incredible experience. I agree. Almost the perfect by the way, we're
Gizmo: arguing about a 9.3 a nine.
I
Chef Ricky: know it's a great score. So
Gizmo: by the way, well
Bam Bam: chef was at an eight.
Gizmo: Yeah it was. So
Rooster: is that a nine now?
Gizmo: I wanna share something with you guys. So normally I'll run through what we did last time. So obviously like I said, we did this cigar on episode 24. I want to show you guys, 'cause none of us have listened to this, maybe Ricky has maybe show.
Ricky has. I wanna show you how we used to rate. These are our ratings from episode 24 on the Cohiba SLA two, the UAO, August 19. You ready? Seven. What were we fighting? You guys ready to do the, uh, formal lizard rating on this thing? Yep, I'm ready. Alright, rooster, you're up. So I'm gonna give it a solid eight.
I'm gonna give it a solid eight. Okay. I'm gonna give the scar an eight as well.
Bam Bam: Oh my [01:59:00] Lord. About an eight. No commentary at all.
Chef Ricky: A very, very strong eight. And I'm surprised with that because it's a, it's a little commentary. There you go. A much milder cigar, but I kind of really enjoyed it and maybe with the pairings and, uh, it's been a very pleasant experience.
Strong eight. Awesome. Eight, huh?
Gizmo: Yeah. Hmm.
Chef Ricky: Whatcha going with?
Gizmo: Be fucking with a 10 then. Alright, so an, that's a rookie score from us tonight, gentlemen. 8.0, 8.0. Wow. Wow. Things have changed, boys. That's funny. In 176 weeks. We're arguing about a 93 tonight. Yeah. All right, boys, so let's compare this to the other cohibas we've done on the pod.
As we just heard on episode 24, the SLA two from the same, uh, box date scored an 8.0. On episode 78, the Cohiba RO scored a 9.6 on episode 115. The pyramid, these extra scored 9.4, we did the Bahi, K 54 with de niwa on episode 121. We did not rate that. We did the S of five On episode [02:00:00] 129 scored a 9.2. The splendid dose on the New Year's Eve episode, uh, last year scored a 10.0 on episode 164.
Wow. The S of six on episode 174 scored 9.0. And finally the BK 58 on episode 180 was a very weak 7.3. Got it.
Senator: I'm just curious, 'cause this cigar in the plei dose, which would you. Rather smoke. Mm-hmm. The one that we did in New Year's splendido. They're
Chef Ricky: the same price a splendido.
Gizmo: That's all I'm
Senator: saying.
Gizmo: But triple the price.
I mean, we're talking about, we're talking about a petite Corona stands in its own lane. Yeah. A SPLENDIDO stands in its own lane. Now, let tell you this, if I'm at Thanksgiving, Senator and I have an hour to sit down and smoke, and I wanna pull a cohiba, this is a great choice. That is, if I have two hours, I'll sit down and I'll pull the PLE dose.
Senator: Also good. You can smoke a cig of five in an hour. Just [02:01:00] saying's not wrong. I don't you, Len
Gizmo: Soro and I'd picked that up over this fair point.
Bam Bam: Wow.
Gizmo: All right boys, A great night tonight. Again, the domain Egali, the Aerco Vintage 2020 from Greece. Our first white wine ever on the podcast, that's not bubbly, scored a perfect 10.0 in the Cohiba Siglo two from Cuba.
Scored a 9.3. I would say that was a home run pairing, boys
Bam Bam: delicious pairing. Oh yeah,
Gizmo: nice lead up. As we come into the last couple episodes before episode 200, we have to of course, congratulate Lizard Lucas, our lizard of the week with that great email about lounges. I can't even believe that. No, he's driving four hours each way to a lounge.
That's crazy. We have to thank our sponsor, boys Fabrica five. They make great cigars. I just ordered a bunch and I hope our listeners are doing the same. Please use our code and of course, if you're looking for the Bon Roberts one oh nines or the Petit one oh nines, go to CH cigars.com and order them there.
And boys, a great night, great conversation. We'll see everybody next week. [02:02:00] Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com. That's lounge lizards p d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform.
If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll uh, we'll see you next week.