Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

Why it’s critical to say what needs to be said — and listen when others do the same.

Speak out, listen up — these are Megan Reitz’s core pillars of workplace communication. According to her, healthy organizations are only possible when everyone can say what they think, and they know they’ll be heard.
Reitz is an academic and author whose work focuses on creating workplaces where all voices are heard and valued. Her latest book, Speak Out, Listen Up, explores the power dynamics that shape our communication at work and beyond. “Conversational habits define organizational success and our capacity to flourish,” she says. “Ethical conduct depends on what we're able to say and what we aren't, and whether we're heard or not. Innovation depends on our capacity to speak up, challenge, and disrupt, and whether that is heard or not. And of course, our engagement and our ability to perform depends on a feeling that our opinion is valued and that we're respected.”
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Reitz and host Matt Abrahams discuss how to create workplaces where every voice is heard. From her T.R.U.T.H. framework (trust, risk, understanding, titles, and how-to) to the pitfalls of communicational power dynamics, Reitz’s insights reveal why healthy organizations are only possible when we all speak out and listen up.

Episode Reference Links:

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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (00:51) - The TRUTH Framework
  • (04:02) - Status, Titles, and Voice
  • (07:51) - Power Traps For Leaders
  • (12:36) - Mindful Leadership = Habit Change
  • (17:05) - The Final Three Questions
  • (23:04) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Megan Reitz
Professor | Associate Fellow | Author | Executive Coach

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Communication really works
when people feel comfortable speaking up

and knowing that they'll be listened to.

I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach
strategic communication at Stanford

Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I look forward to
speaking with Megan Reitz.

Megan is an associate fellow at
the University of Oxford Business

School and an adjunct professor
of leadership and dialogue at Hult

International Business School.

Her work focuses on creating
workplaces where all voices are heard

and valued, especially in the face
of employee activism and change.

She has written several books, the most
recent of which is "Speak Out, Listen Up".

Welcome, Megan.

I am really excited to
learn from you today.

Megan Reitz: Lovely to be here.

I've been looking forward
to this conversation.

Matt Abrahams: Great.

Shall we get started?

Megan Reitz: Let's go.

Matt Abrahams: In your work, you
talk about our conversational habits.

I'm curious what are these and
why do we have them and can you

share what your truth framework is?

Megan Reitz: I can.

So Matt, you and I and everybody listening
right now have habits, lots of habits,

but the habits I'm interested in are
the habits that we have around when

we speak up and when we stay silent.

And also, definitely, the habits
that we have around when we listen

and who we listen to and what
we listen to and when we don't.

And those conversational habits, what
we hear and what we say, they define

our lives when you think about it.

And they certainly define the
lives of the people that are

around us at work and also at home.

Now, in a organizational
settings, conversational habits

define organizational success
and our capacity to flourish.

Ethical conduct depends on what
we're able to say and what we aren't,

and whether we're heard or not.

Innovation depends on our capacity to
speak up and challenge, and disrupt,

and whether that is heard or not.

And of course, our engagement and
our ability to perform depends

on a feeling that our opinion is
valued and that we're respected.

So that's the territory that I'm most
interested in terms of our habits

and what our habits mean, and of
course, how we disrupt our habits.

And in our research, we've
asked thousands and thousands of

people, why don't they speak up?

So I'll just ask again, the people that
are listening, think about something

right now that you feel you could or
should speak up about, but you haven't.

And then think about why haven't
you spoken up about them?

And I've asked lots and lots of people
that question and come up with what we

call the TRUTH framework, which is five
factors that affect our choice around

whether we speak up or stay silent.

And whether we choose to listen or not.

And very briefly, the T stands for trust.

So to speak up, I have to trust
in the value of my opinion.

And to listen, I have to trust the
value of other people's opinions.

R stands for risk.

So when I'm speaking, I tend to think
about what the consequences are and

of course we can catastrophize about
that, but we're often worried about

our relationship, we're worried
about being perceived negatively.

If we are listening, we need to understand
how those speaking to us experience risk.

U stands for understanding.

And it's understanding power and
politics because speaking up and

listening is political, a political act.

The second T is for titles and
labels, 'cause if there's one thing

that affects what gets said and who
gets heard, it's our construction of

status and authority within a system.

And the H is the how to.

I, I may have something to say, but unless
I have the words and the person and the

time and the place, I'll stay silent.

And similarly, I may want to invite
other people to speak, but unless

I know how to do that skillfully,
I'm not gonna hear a thing.

So that's the TRUTH framework.

We really use it to help people to
understand why they do what they do

and how to disrupt it if they need to.

Matt Abrahams: Everybody knows I love a
good acronym and I want to dive deeper

into it, but the broader point here,
our willingness to share our opinions,

to speak up, as you say, is inhibited
and restricted due to a lot of things

beyond our control, some in our control.

And if we really want to be functional in
an organization and in our relationships,

we have to really work on this.

And I appreciate you
highlighting the problem.

I'd like to dive into the truth, the
whole truth, nothing but the truth.

A couple things stand out to me that I'd
love for you to just to dive deeper into.

So you talk about understanding,
you talk about titles and labels,

so there's a political status,
performative nature in this.

I'd love for you to share a little
bit more about how we can be

sensitive to this, and what we can
do when we feel that we are being

restricted in our communication and
not listened to, as a result of the

politics and status that are at play.

Megan Reitz: Yes.

As I said, if there is one thing that
affects the conversations that we have

at work and outside of work, it's how
we are busy constructing our status and

authority in relation to other people.

So a kind of practical way to think
about this is, think about all the

titles and labels that we throw
around in an organizational system.

So we've got things like hierarchy,
of course, hierarchical labels.

We have things like gender.

We have things like expertise, department,
the number of years you've been in an

organization, we've got reputational
labels, you name it, we label, it

inside an organizational system.

And depending on organizational
culture, fascinating thing is that

these labels and titles convey relative
levels of status and authority.

Depending on the context, so you
can't really generalize about them.

So I often in my work ask, people
which titles and labels affect

voice in your organization.

For example, people might say, if you're
in the executive management board,

obviously everybody listens to you, but
not if you are further down the hierarchy.

Or they might say, if you are in
commercial, you lucky person, you

kind of rule, everybody listens to
you, but if you're in HR, you have

a more tricky time, or vice versa.

Yeah, there, there isn't
really any patterns here.

So these titles and labels and our
understanding of power, in particular

help, not only when we're speaking up,
but also really when we are listening up.

So this brings me just to something
that we have in our research

called advantage blindness.

So when we have the in inverted commas
"right" labels in a system, in other

words, the high status labels, we are
actually very unlikely to notice the

impact that they have on other people.

If we have the wrong labels, or
the underdog labels, the less

status labels, it's actually really
obvious to us the impact that has.

And advantage blindness is the fact
that when we're, I don't know, chief

executive, and we come from commercial
and we've been in the organization

for 10 years and we have a good
reputation, our experience is that we

can speak up and everybody listens.

And we tend to then assume that's
everybody else's experience too.

So what it means, particularly, as you
go up the hierarchy, is you are very

likely to overestimate the degree to which
other people are speaking up around you.

You'll probably overestimate as well
how approachable you are, and you're

almost certainly overestimating
your listening skills as well.

So this means that we can have this
what I call an optimism bubble going

on, and that's ever so important,
particularly if you're in positions of

power and your leaders and managers,
and frankly, to do your job well, you

need to hear what you need to hear.

Matt Abrahams: I think you
hit the nail on the head there

with this notion of awareness.

Everything I'm hearing you say
certainly rings true, in terms of

where you are in the hierarchy, your
experience, your title, that all

influences how much you perceive
others listen to you and understand.

And we carry that idea that others have
that same experience, even though their

rank status experience is different.

So it's about awareness.

So I'm curious, how do we build awareness?

How do we burst that opportunity bubble
and really leverage advantage blindness?

What do we do?

Megan Reitz: Yes, it's a good question.

The first thing is that, as I
said, power probably affects our

conversations more than anything else,
and wonderfully, ironically, if there

is a conversation we are least likely
to have at work, it's about power.

It's this capacity to open up
an understanding of how this is

influencing our conversations at work
in a way that sparks curiosity and

interest as opposed to defensiveness.

And a lot of my research is
about doing exactly that.

But I talk about three traps in
particular, that people in positions

of power need to be aware of.

And the first trap is around
knowing that you're probably more

intimidating than you realize.

So, as I said, we tend to think
we're lovely and approachable, but

because of the titles and labels we
wear, actually, it's not so much.

Our first article in Harvard Business
Review, which is about probably nearly

10 years ago now on this research was
called "The Problem with Saying My Door

Is Always Open." And it's not a problem
to say that, it's a problem if you think

anybody's actually gonna walk into your
office and tell you what you need to hear.

So first thing is just be aware of
power and be aware about how those

labels mean you might be intimidating.

And then you need to put the
other person at their ease.

Choosing environments, choosing your
moments, choosing your questions, we might

come onto that, there's lots to say there.

But how can you reduce the
risk for the other person?

The second trap is around
echo chambers, essentially.

So we often go to the same
people for opinions and advice.

Of course we do, because we trust them,
but we need to question that list of

people that we tend to go to all the time.

And even more so, you know, cast our
attention a little bit wider and ask

ourselves, actually, who am I not hearing
from right now that in order to be a

brilliant manager, leader, whatever, I
really need to know what they're thinking?

So who aren't I including?

An echo chamber is a very dangerous
place for a leader to be, but it

can be all too common, especially
as you go up the hierarchy.

And the third trap I refer
to, very pragmatically, is

the signals that we send.

I, I often say we send what I call shut
up signals rather than speak up signals.

And I'll give you one example, and
I'll use myself as an example here.

I have this rather unfortunate
habit, and maybe some of the people

listening can relate to this, when
I happen to be very thoughtful and

interested in what somebody's saying,
I can on occasion have, what is

politely known as, a thinking face.

And I frown and I can look a
little bit intimidating, actually.

And I know that that's one sort of signal.

You know, another signal, a classic
signal, is when we are meeting virtually.

We can absolutely tell, can't we, who's
doing their emails, trying to be subtle

about them, but failing miserably.

I don't know why we all think we can do
our emails without anybody else noticing,

but of course, it's always noticeable.

And if you have somebody around you that
is trying to build up the confidence

to say something important, and
then they look at you and you either

look really intimidating or clearly,
completely distracted by something else.

Guess what?

They're gonna stay silent.

Knowing our signals, as Nancy
Kleiner, past colleague of mine,

beautifully said, know your face.

Do you know what signals you are sending?

Particularly, and I'll, let me
underline this one, Matt, particularly

when somebody has spoken up.

And you know what, maybe they've
not done it very well because

they've been really nervous.

The signals we send in the next
couple of seconds determine whether

that person's gonna speak up again.

So that bit of self-awareness
is utterly vital.

And actually, we can train it.

A lot of my research is
on mindful leadership.

I know we can train our attention, we
can train our levels of self-awareness.

We can also make sure that there are
people around us that can dig us in the

ribs at the right opportunity to make sure
that we keep altering our habits and let

us know about the impact that they have.

Matt Abrahams: I really appreciate
you identifying the traps that we all

fall into that that really accentuate
and bring, in some cases, adversity

to our communication around the ideas
of status and power and politics.

So this idea that we are often perceived
as more intimidating than we are.

I have had that experience in my own
life where people have told me, or I've

learned that people find me intimidating
and I feel that's not the case.

The notion of echo chambers, who we're
actually seeking information from.

And then how we show up
and what we show people.

All of these can work against
inviting others to speak up.

I like the term of shut up
signals, and it's important,

again, that self-awareness.

And it strikes me that having trusted
others who can give you genuine feedback

about how you're showing up and perhaps
even digitally recording yourself and

watching and seeing it would be two key
ways to enhance your own self-awareness.

I'm curious if the mindfulness work
that you do fits into how we can

better set up psychological safety
and be present in those moments.

Do you have some thoughts?

I, I was curious about this
mindful leadership idea

that you mentioned earlier.

Megan Reitz: I'll actually just get
people listening to pause at that moment

and notice their response to the word
mindful and mindfulness, because it

carries quite a lot of baggage, sometimes
incredibly positive and sometimes less.

And there's quite a lot of
misunderstanding around what

it means, similar actually, to
the word psychological safety.

I am interested in habit change, right?

Now, to change your habits, you have
to have the capacity, when you are

about to do what you've always done,
to notice that in the moment and

then choose to do something else.

So that is at the heart
of all habit change.

And we know from our research, from wide
selection of research now, that it is

possible with practice to train our brain
to be more aware in that present moment.

So to have that, what we might call
metacognition, that notices our thoughts,

our feelings, our sensations, our actions
in the moment when we're doing it.

And the research that we did, I did
with Michael Chaskalson, examined

whether we can train leaders in that.

And our research found that with 10
minutes or more, preferably, practice

a day with certain sorts of practices
with the brain, you can indeed build

that level of in the moment awareness.

So that you open up actually a very
small space where you can choose your

response rather than being on autopilot.

Now, we'll never do that all the
time, but if we could do it just 10%

more of the time, of course, that
would have potentially quite profound

impact on ourselves and on others.

The very interesting thing is that
we could argue that attention is the

most valuable thing that we feasibly
have, and nearly all of us don't train.

How crazy is that if you ask me?

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

I really like the way
you define mindfulness.

I have been somebody who has been
attempting to practice mindfulness

for many years now, and a few
things that you've mentioned that

I think are critical is really,
it's where you put that attention.

And giving yourself that little bit
of space to distance yourself from

the interaction from the emotion
you're feeling, from whatever, to then

make a choice is really important.

When I coach people who have extreme
anxiety in speaking in front of

others or communicating with others,
a really powerful mindfulness

tool is simply to say, this is me
feeling nervous in this moment.

And that distance that
gives you that opportunity.

And I can see as leaders or as people
who are really trying to be in the

moment, just reminding yourself,
this is me doing this, gives you

that perception and that opportunity.

So I very much appreciate you
highlighting the fact that we

need to train that attention.

What I have found in my own life is
finding physical activities, help me

train my attention, that I can then
bring that learning into my interaction.

So many people listening know I've
done martial arts for a long time.

Sometimes people do a sport,
sometimes they play music,

sometimes they walk in nature.

All of those are ways of training
your attention and you can then

bring that to the communication
and the interactions we have.

You know, Megan, this has been
a fascinating conversation.

I think what you study is really
interesting and really, really helpful.

Before we end, I'd like to
ask you three questions.

One I make up just for you and
the other two I've been asking

everyone as long as this podcast
has existed, are you up for that?

Megan Reitz: Yes.

Go for it, Matt.

Matt Abrahams: So you had mentioned
that one of the things you have become

aware of is how you appear, your
face if you will, in interactions.

I'm curious, how did you learn about
that in hopes that others can follow the

process so we can learn how we come off?

And what have you done to change that?

Megan Reitz: Yeah, that's a lovely
question and I'm grinning from ear to

ear because do you know, I think 'cause
there is an irony with this, okay.

Because if you are in a position of power
or you're a little bit intimidating,

nobody's going to tell you that you've
got a thinking face because they're too

intimidated to tell you, and you are none
the wiser, and so you can just stay in

this beautiful bubble without a clue.

And I do come across many people that
discover it for the first time in an

anonymous 360, and they go, what the hell?

I would say that the person
that really landed that

feedback with me was my husband.

I remember particularly, we were on
a train journey and I can't, I think

there was somebody in the carriage
obviously that was either having a

very loud conversation or behaving in
a way that I didn't agree with, and I

clearly had it written all over my face.

And I remember my husband just
saying, honestly, it's like a loud

speaker coming from you at the moment.

Do you know how much
you are communicating?

And so it got me quite interested
and I think I have practiced

mindfulness 25 years, I think.

And as you will see videos of me
in various places, goodness me, I

don't get this right all of the time,
but I'm better than I used to be.

So, I do have a little bit of
that awareness that just says,

hang on, Megan, what are you
doing with your face right now?

And so I have built that practice through
my husband and my mindfulness work.

Matt Abrahams: So the take home message
there is that trusted others can give

us this feedback, and perhaps sometimes
we have to solicit it to learn about it.

And I can certainly tell you as somebody
who has had the pleasure of being able to

see you and not just listen to you, many
of folks listen to this without watching

the videos, I do not see that face at all.

You have been very engaged,
so well done on you.

But the notion that we have to hear
from others external to us, and

then consciously work on it and give
ourselves a little bit of grace that

we're not gonna get it right every time.

Megan Reitz: Absolutely.

And a little bit of humor helps, a bit
of lightness and curiosity helps rather

than taking it all a bit too seriously.

Matt Abrahams: Yes.

A little dash of levity in all
interactions can make things better.

Question number two, who is a
communicator that you admire and why?

Megan Reitz: So there are so many people I
could list here, but my mind went straight

to my co-researcher and co-author,
John Higgins, and I'll tell you why.

Not only is he, he's absolutely superb
communicator himself in terms of how he

describes our research and advocates,
but the reason why he comes straight

to my mind as a amazing communicator
is because of his capacity and

skill in helping me to communicate.

So when we walk, we have a practice where
every couple of weeks we go for long walks

together without a particular agenda.

And John, through his capacity to
utterly turn his attention to me, his

curiosity and his amazing questions he
helps me to then discover stuff that he

then responds to, and then together we
can create some really amazing things.

So John is the person that comes to mind.

Matt Abrahams: I love that you
answered that question not because

he's a good communicator, although
you say he is, but that he brings

out good communication in you.

And what a treasure to have
people like that in our lives.

And I hope all of us can find people
who can help us in that capacity.

So my final question for you, what are
the first three ingredients that go

into a successful communication recipe?

Megan Reitz: So I would say number one
is genuine curiosity that requires our

ability to turn our attention and also
to something I call mutuality, to really

see and value the other person in that.

And to be honest, I don't think
you can do that via techniques.

I think that's something that's more
of a kind of orientation and a value.

The second thing in a recipe would be
a, an understanding awareness and a

deep fascination with power dynamics
because of the way that that affects

what gets said and who gets heard.

And the third thing I would say
is creating the space to have

different sorts of conversation.

Having the courage within systems that
are tight and busy and in the doing

mode, how do you create that space for
yourself and others to have those really

meaningful and important conversations.

So those are my three ingredients.

Matt Abrahams: I love them.

Curiosity, I like this notion of
mutuality, appreciation of the

power and status that's at play in
the moment, and then thinking about

ways to allow for spaciousness so
the connection can really occur.

Megan, this has been a really
insightful and fascinating

conversation in so many ways.

You've helped us understand the truth.

I love the acronym T.R.U.T.H., and
you really helped us think through

how we can truly allow ourselves to
speak up and speak out and help others.

And I wish you well with your
book, "Speak Out, Listen Up".

Thank you so much for your
time and for your insight.

Megan Reitz: Thank you, Matt.

I've really enjoyed it.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about psychological
safety, listen to our episode 132

with Amy Edmondson and to learn
more about leadership, listen to

episode 148 with Irv Grousbeck.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.

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