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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
The Heart of a Bounty Hunter
00:00
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man podcast. My name is Jesse French and I'm excited to be joined by my co-host today, who is? Codyi Buriff. Glad to be here. Good to see you, Cody. Thanks for joining us again. And yeah, I'm excited. This is a conversation that you and I have talked about for a couple of weeks of just anticipation and looking forward to it. It's with a friend of both of ours. And so yeah, man, excited to jump into a good chat here today.
00:27
Yeah, I'm excited to introduce everybody to my friend, Paul Hathcoat. Paul, actually, I'll say a few words about you and then I'm going to let you introduce yourself. But Paul is actually a pastor at the church that we attend, my family attends, and we've gotten to know each other over a multitude of cups of coffee over the last few years. We've shared laughter and tears and he's been a huge blessing in my life and a good friend. So I'm thankful for Paul. Welcome to the podcast. Hey guys, what's going on?
00:55
How would you introduce yourself to people? Well, my name is Paul Hathcoat. I'm a pastor at White River Christian Church here in Noblesville, Indiana, husband and father of five boys. So we can start the prayers there. That's how the conversation usually goes. Yeah, man. And I'm aware, so Paul, you're older than me. You've got sons that are, you know, well outside of high school, outside of college, and you now have a son who is how old?
01:25
He's 13 months. Yeah. Love it. So we are 44. My wife and I are the same age and we have 25 year old son, 23, 22, 18 that's still in the house for another half a year. And then boy number five Knox came to us 13 months ago. So yeah, we have a little bit of a spread there.
01:51
I feel like there's probably enough fodder around that for several episodes. So we'll just file that away. And props to you, man. I would imagine such a sweet gift and just some of the jarring reorientation of like, oh, diapers are different, you know, like this many years later and how does this work and all the practical things. Yes, that could be a whole other podcast, but it is a blessing. It really is. Yeah, it's cool.
02:17
Well, Paul, I know we talked about this conversation that we wanted to have with you today around there's something really unique about Paul. I've met a lot of men in my life who are in a multitude of career fields. And Paul is the first person I've met who has spent some time as a bounty hunter. You heard me right. I said bounty hunter. Paul is a bounty hunter. That's what I'm talking about.
02:41
And if you met Paul, you would never, you know, as you meet him, you would never think, oh, that guy's a bounty hunter, like dog, the bounty hunter or something like that. Paul is like a kind man, you know, I would say gentle, you know, fierce, like he's got a competitive spirit for sure. But not the like crazy, intimidating, you know, jock that. Hold on, hold on. Like Boba Fett. Let's go Star Wars for just one second. Boba Fett was not like a kind presence. I'm just trying to look like some.
03:11
some holes in your theory here. Let me just get expand this. George Lucas, I don't know. Maybe it's breaking our mold of what. How do you feel about being the Boba Fett of Indiana? It is better than being the dog, the bounty hunter of Indiana. I'll tell you that. There you go. At this point, Paul's questioning like, why did I say yes to Cody and Jesse? They're like comparing me to Boba Fett and dog, the bounty hunter. Can I extract myself?
03:40
You know, what's funny is that when people learn that that's part of my history, these are the exact same conversations, fellas, that they follow the same script. I was like, get some new material, you guys. You think you're being clever, but you're not. I'm sorry. Well, what kind of just give us a little bit of backstory? How on earth did you end up? I know you're not in that career field now, and we'll get to that later, but like, how did you end up as a bounty hunter?
04:09
Good question. Good question. Well, it goes way back to my childhood. I didn't like want to be a bounty hunter when I was a kid by any means. I didn't even know really what that was, but I was an athlete and my sport of choice was baseball. I played a lot of others, but baseball is what I wanted to do. And like many boys, that's what I was going to do for my whole life, right? They were going to pay me to do that. And so that was the path I was on.
04:39
For one reason or another in my childhood, I loved the Texas Longhorns. And so I watched their football games, their baseball games. I'm from Indiana, born and raised. I don't know exactly why, other than maybe they were good when I was at the right age or they were just on more Saturday afternoons than any other team, but I would watch their baseball games.
05:01
And I would want to be those guys who were on the screen and ESPN would put their name and their stats and like what they're studying in school and where they're from. And like, it seemed like eight out of 10 of them were studying criminal justice. I don't know if it was just that team that I keyed in on or if I saw a few times and made more of it than it actually was. But I started to just think like, okay, I want to go to college and play baseball. I'd love to go to Texas. All these guys are doing criminal justice.
05:31
And so that's just what you do. So when it came time to be, you know, 15, 16, and you really start making plans for your future, I wanted to play ball. And then what was I going to study? I don't know. I wasn't that smart. Criminal justice sounded pretty easy too. So I was like, let's do it. So that's what I pursued in my undergrad. I love just even that entrance already, because it always feels, you know, I can see the screen right where you.
05:59
that you're describing, right, where they have the player on there and stats and the height and weight and the whole thing. And I just remember also watching when I was a young kid and I felt like it wasn't criminal justice. It was sociology. And I was like, what in the world is sociology? Like at least criminal justice, maybe like a little bit more framework, but I would see that and just have this total baffled look of like sociology. Wow. That sounds awful. Yeah. That's what my associates is in. My bachelor's is in. Oh my gosh. I'm getting a cold. Well enough. Roll.
06:29
Yeah, yeah. I know now more now, Paul. I really appreciate that field. It's just when I was when I was like 14. Yeah, it's funny. Yeah. OK, so you studied criminal justice then in college? I did. So when I got to college, I found out quickly that I was not prepared to do both school and ball and meet the demands that both of those things had, let alone being on my own.
06:58
We were in an apartment instead of a dorm, which just bred more independence and debauchery, to be honest. And I quickly found out I wasn't equipped at that age. And my childhood and upbringing didn't prepare me to handle all of that well. So then I find myself like, okay, I think I can just grit and bear one of these things but the other one's not gonna be, I'm not gonna have enough time in space and bandwidth for it. So I chose my education.
07:28
and just kept going hard after criminal justice. And I was really interested in it. I've always had a bit of a justice mindset, just like gravitated towards those kinds of things on TV and in books. And just my peak interest at times at 12 and 13 when I started thinking about, I'm not gonna be a kid forever. I thought about the courtroom and the criminal justice system and police, and it just always...
07:55
That was really the only area that drew my attention on a consistent basis. And so when it came time to like, what am I going to do? Then I just kept going after that. Eventually after four years, I had an internship requirement before graduation. This was at Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana. And you had to have an 18 week internship before you graduated. It was a requirement.
08:21
All of the people I was in school with were going either into a police station or a prison. And to be honest, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew I didn't want to be a cop. I didn't want to be in a jail. I didn't want to work 12 hour shifts. I didn't want to make $41,000 a year. I knew some things I didn't want, but I didn't know exactly what I wanted. So I asked my advisor, hey, find me something outside of the box.
08:49
I can do anything, I know I can, but I want something that's not typical and that's fun, challenging, exciting, that's not expected of everybody that graduates from criminal justice at 21. So he found me this internship with this company called United Surety Agents out of Indianapolis. I wasn't even sure what it was at the beginning, but when I showed up day one, it's this bail bond company.
09:15
and not just a mom and pop operation that you see across from every jail in America, right, with the neon signs, but it was a general managing agency, which meant that they were the employers or the backers of hundreds of these mom and pop operations across the country. So I got a quick education and lesson in life and in how the criminal justice system worked, and then how the bail bond system worked, and I was hooked, you know?
09:44
I was 22 and young and wanted to prove myself as a man. I showed up and there was Cadillacs in the parking lot, rings on everybody's finger, chains around their necks, guns on their waist, and bulletproof vests hanging in their office. I was like, all right, this is what I was talking about when I said, find me something different. Out of the box, for sure. Yeah. Wow. I'm curious.
10:10
of a nuts and bolts sort of question, but like you say, you know, you, you learned about how the bail bond system and the criminal justice system worked. And that was fascinating. Can you enlighten us? Like how does it work? Sure. Sure. Great question. So unfortunately crime happens all the time in the United States. You're innocent till proven guilty. So although you can be arrested, you have the opportunity to be free until
10:39
your court date happens and goes through the process. And if you want to be, then there's many different release options, but especially here in Indiana, one of the main options for release after arrest is to use a surety bail agency. So you would contact a bail bondsman and then you would enter into a contract with them that says if you promise to show up back at court whenever that may be.
11:06
then you are only responsible for paying one tenth of the amount of bail that a judge is set. So if the judge set your bail at $10,000, you would pay my company a thousand and then sign on a promised note that says, if I don't show up, then you can collect the other 9,000 and you can collect me. So it's basically an IOU. And then as the bail bond agency, we give that to the court and we are held responsible.
11:35
for you showing back up in court whenever that date may be. So we were responsible for a lot of individuals on an ongoing basis. And so that's how bail bonds work. And we collected as much info as we could ahead of time because I think the stats were like 18% of our individuals who we bailed out at one point or another missed a court date. So then we start looking for people. So that's where you enter the system then
12:05
you know, said person does not appear for their court date. Then 22 year old Paul Hathcoat gets the facts or the pager or whatever it was. Then like to say, Hey, you got to go find so-and-so who skipped out. We need to track him down so he can, or she can like show up to their court date. Is this simplistically kind of the way the process then would happen? Yep. You're tracking Jesse. So, uh, now I started out in that company doing a few other things cause I was low on the totem pole.
12:32
But when I saw what the bounty hunters were going out and doing on a regular basis, I was like, I actually had, I was a little cocky at that age, 22. And I approached our offices like managing agent for the forfeitures and recovery department and just said, Hey, your job's awesome. I think it'll take me six months to have it. And you were cocky. Oh my gosh. He did not like that. But it took me four months.
13:01
Oh, you were wow. Wow. It took me four months to kind of change, to go through some other areas and then start working in that field as well. And man, once I got my feet wet, I was pretty hooked, but yeah. So we were the managing agency for hundreds of small independent bail bond companies and half of them had a contract with us that stated if all of the bonds that they wrote.
13:27
those individuals on those bonds for their company that didn't show up were our responsibility. So I would just receive a letter from each of the courts of those individuals that didn't show up. So across my desk on a weekly basis would be eight to 20 notices around the country, mostly in the Midwest of individuals who we needed to find one way or another. So I'm just, yeah, would you be willing to share, if you could only share one story?
13:56
of a bounty hunt, if you will, what story would you tell? You know, I get asked that question a lot. I'll tell a couple of stories real quick. The first one is interesting because it was my very first arrest of all time. So this was 2003, I think, and I had to travel to Newcastle, Indiana and find this kid. And it relates to how the Lord was working in my life as well.
14:25
and the themes that have always showed up. But we found the house, we assumed he was in there. This is my very first case. And we ended up busting in because no one would open, but we heard noise inside. And when we were confronted with this kid, I think he was 23, 24, it was apparent right away that he had some type of intellectual disability. And so I was hit right away with compassion, but excitement.
14:55
and adrenaline, but also confused as to how this happened to this kid and how I ended up in his house. But long story short, I had to return him to Oregon. So my very first case involved going to the Indianapolis airport, hopping on a plane, telling the airline at that point that we had an individual in custody that had a warrant that we were transporting to Oregon.
15:22
and they didn't ask enough questions. They just assumed that we were FBI agents because we weren't dressed in fatigues and bulletproof vest and look like the bounty hunters you saw on TV. Right. Like we were dressed as businessmen and just had jackets that covered our badges and our guns and stuff like that. And so we just hopped on the plane. We were ushered on first. We were asked where we wanted to see and again, did not ask enough questions.
15:51
and just assumed we were some sort of FBI or US marshals and treated us like royalty. And I thought, this is the life already. This is my first one. You know, we flew to Oregon and we turned it over and then we flew back and. It was 28 hours later after I started that case and I'm laying in bed. Like, this is the coolest thing I've ever been involved in, in my entire life. This is what I was made for. This is what I want to do. So.
16:19
That was my introduction to it. And I tell people all the time that the job is actually quite boring at times because it's like 80% finding information online or on the phone and just gathering a bunch of data, and then it's 10% travel and sitting and waiting, and then 10% action and that first case was action and it was fun, but over time I found out that it's a job like any other.
16:47
And then you mix in these moments of action or danger or whatever you have. And it made for quite an interesting 10 years in that business. And the other story I tell is kind of funny, but was harsh. It was scary. It was dangerous in the moment. I call it the world's slowest foot pursuit of all time. So I had hired a couple of other agents to work with me. And.
17:15
We were looking for a guy on the east side of Indianapolis and he had some pretty serious charges so I wanted a crew with me and I was being pretty cautious. But we had a hard time finding him. All of our addresses were bad and we weren't getting any cooperation. But we had one address that we thought he was in and out of. It was an ex-girlfriend or something. The only thing I was really worried about other than this guy's rap sheet is that he was 6’6”.
17:44
325 pounds. And I'm not tiny. I mean, I'm thin, but I'm 6'3". And at the time when I was 22, I was 195 pounds. So I'm not tiny, but 6'6", 325 pounds is a lot different than 6'395 pounds. But I was young and cocky still, right? I mean, that's the theme you guys are picking up so far, right? Yeah. So we finally tracked this guy down and we split up to take a
18:13
couple of exits out of this neighborhood and he ends up coming outside and hopping in a car as a passenger and exits on my side of the neighborhood. And so protocol says I contact my team and we meet up and follow and make sure we do this as a team. Well, I have no idea to this day exactly why, but I couldn't get in contact with them at that time. So I'm following him by myself knowing I have no backup.
18:41
hoping he doesn't stop because if he stops, I have to do something. I'm hoping I can get ahold of my other, my secondary team in the meantime, but ended up stopping not too far from that house at a local gas station and walks inside. And I know if I let him in the car, the odds of him getting away or there being some sort of issue, they grow as time goes on. So I muster up the courage to hop out of the car and follow him in and.
19:10
He's standing in line at the register. And again, I don't look like dog, the bounty hunter. You can't spot me. I've got a jacket that covers my vest and my gun and taser and all these things. Right. And so I kind of shuffle in behind him and pull the warrant out of my pocket and just glance at the photo and I kind of glance at him and just make sure it's him. Right. I mean, I knew it was. Yeah. Let's just be double sure. I knew it was. I was 99% sure. But.
19:40
That's the things you do to avoid a lawsuit, right? So I'm standing three foot inside of this gas station door. And again, muster up the courage to unzip my vest, which shows my badge, shows my gun, shows my taser. And I say, Hey, I have a warrant for your arrest. Let's do this the easy way. And he turns, looks at me, looks down at the warrant, looks at me again. And before I knew it.
20:08
I was three feet inside of the gas station. I found myself three feet outside of the gas station on my back. He ran through me like I wasn't even there. And for a big guy, he moved quick. But the story is called the slowest foot pursuit of all time because being that big, he didn't have much endurance. So he ran around the back of the gas station and within 30 yards,
20:36
He slowed down already and stopped and turned and faced me in six foot six, three hundred and twenty five pounds or whatever it was turning and facing you. Looking like what he looked like, knowing he wasn't going to give up. I was pretty scared, but I have a job to do and I continued forward. I pulled out my taser and I pointed it at him and I said, again, can we please just do this the easy way? And.
21:06
He started towards me and what am I going to do? So I pulled the trigger on my taser, both prongs went into his chest and I have unfortunately tasered probably a dozen or more people in my time and this guy wasn't phased one bit. He grabbed both of the leads, pulled him out, tossed him down and said, I'm going to kill you white boy.
21:35
The good thing is that after that 30 yard sprint and that adrenaline that he had in those first few moments had kind of left him, he could barely move already. And I was thankful for that. So he came at me, I took a dozen steps back and he decided rather than try to fight me, he was gonna run away, which I was more than grateful for, right? More than grateful for no more confrontation, but I thought, here we go.
22:04
foot chase and he probably ran, this is a slow run at this time, another 50 yards before he stopped again and turned around and he couldn't even get a word out. He was so winded already. I don't know if he had a condition or if he was a smoker for life or if the adrenaline was too much or if the taser actually had an effect on him or not. I don't know exactly why, but he couldn't even talk. He was so exhausted and he knew it. He wasn't feeling it.
22:33
And I was 20 feet behind him. And so he turns around again and keeps running away. But at this point it is a walk. So I think, okay, I better get on the phone. I better let IMPD know like he's going to run away. So I hop on the phone with IMPD and I'm following him. And by the time it's time to explain to IMPD, like who I am and where we're at and where we're headed, my words are, well, I thought it was going to be a chase.
23:03
but you guys probably have plenty of time because we're just walking slowly towards, I forget which road it was now, but we're walking slowly. So I tell them our whereabouts, and I follow this guy for 25 minutes before anyone shows up over fences and backyards, through neighborhoods, but he is so exhausted already and he can barely move. So he's fallen over fences and I'm walking slowly. I'm checking my phone.
23:33
I'm taking a few steps at a time. I'm just waiting at this point. I know I'm not in danger anymore. I'm just waiting for him to be so tired that he falls down and rolls over and says, let's just go to jail. And that's exactly what happened. Wow. That really is like, when you said the slowest foot pursuit of all time, I'm like, how, how total like cognitive dissonance, right? Of like, all foot pursuits are like people sprint to, you know, so, oh, I'm like,
24:02
How is this gonna? Yeah, so I'm following him for 20, 25 minutes at a slow walk and talking to him. Like, I don't know where you think you're going. Like, I've got backup, IMPD is on the way. Like, you're not gonna outrun me. And he's still like threatening me and trying to scare me away and can barely talk. And I'm just walking slowly and relaxed behind him as he's trying to get away at a snail's pace. And at some point, my fear turned to
24:32
humor and I, you know, I'm sure I offended him by laughing at him at some point because it was evident that he had nowhere to go, nothing to do. And his only choice was to just sit down and give up. And that's exactly what happened. He found a tree in this guy's front yard and sat down up against it and gave up. And a few minutes later, IMPD showed up. I didn't even have to put my handcuffs on him. And that was it. So it went from, I think I might die.
24:59
to this is literally the funniest moment of my life. Not making fun of him because obviously that was one of the worst days in his life, but in all the foot chases and pursuits that I ever had, that was the most relaxed. My goodness. Paul, I'd love to ask, thank you for bringing us in to a couple snapshots of what that job was like. That phrase that you just said, I think is a really interesting one, right? That job required.
25:29
an engagement with people that was on one of the worst days of their life or the worst day of their life. And so how did that dynamic and the interchanges that you had with people on such an awful day for them, like how did your view of humanity begin to grow or begin to develop as you were in that job more? Yeah. Yeah. So I was young when I started and came from a stable home, from a stable environment, pretty sheltered.
25:57
now knowing, right? But also knew what it was like to kind of be isolated and a little bit alone and knowing I needed more. So I started that job, like I think most people start that job and it was just about the money and the job and the excitement and the stories. And that's what it was about for a little while. And when a year went by and I had had a dozen arrests under my belt and it went into a lot of homes and into a lot of communities,
26:27
most of which were the communities that people didn't go in unless they had to, or they live there. And what started happening was I started really seeing that there were a lot of different ways that people were living their lives. And most of which I was never exposed to. I was never exposed to individuals that grow up in complete poverty. And that's all they know. I wasn't exposed to individuals that grow up with no sense of security.
26:55
with no stability, with no relationships of significance, with very little hopes and dreams, or even the individuals that grew up with everything, but only seemed to make the wrong choices in life, and were only taking away from all their potential. And yeah, over time, it became a real exercise and in character for me to not just look at these people.
27:24
and what they had done and what they were facing as cases, but looking at them as people. And I tell people when they asked me about my bounty hunting history and being a bail bondsman that, man, when people met me, it was one of the worst days of their lives because they were, they had already gotten in trouble. They had ran from that trouble. And then now they're in handcuffs and they know they're going to face.
27:54
both of those charges. Many times it was an automatic one, two, five, 10 years in jail. And they knew that's what they were facing. And they met me just in that moment, in that day. And that's the only interaction that they ever had with me. And I started feeling responsibility for that because I would put them in the back of my vehicle. And sometimes it was an hour drive to the jail where the warrant was out of, but sometimes it was a 24 hour drive to where we were going to go.
28:22
They're sitting in my back seat and the realization that life for them is about to change and change for a significant amount of time. And there's a lot of stress and weight that is on them. And then started coming out. Like I couldn't just do nothing. And I tell people a lot that that is when I started realizing that I think the Lord built me to help people.
28:51
And justice has always been a part of my definition of helping people, but it felt like scratching the surface in working in the criminal justice system. And I started talking to these people. I started asking them questions. I started filling that time that we had when they were in the back of my car. I started filling that time by...
29:16
asking them how they got to where they're at and what their plans were. And if they had anybody on the outside that would be there for them or that could show up for them. And that's kind of how I felt the Lord drawing me into what I now do, which is tell people about him and the hope that he brings. And that wasn't all at once, that was over time, but yeah.
29:42
from going into homes that were in conditions that were so bad that I had to call CPS. And I had to tell somebody about what was going on in this home or in this apartment. And it just blowing my mind at how terrible these situations were. I was overwhelmed with compassion for these people, even though I knew that they deserved justice in some way, right? Yeah. I feel like the image that jump in here too, Cody. I don't want to just...
30:11
like be the my cog here, but man, just the image of you and an hours long drive with people in this space, like just the word dignity comes to mind of your desire to, not that you are bringing dignity to them that didn't exist before, but just like the reminder of, hey, through our conversation, through the questions that you're gonna ask them, the reminding of like what has always been true of you is that there is dignity to you.
30:40
that there is maybe you didn't language it this way, but like the truest thing about you is not the choices that you have made. Like, yes, that has happened, but there's a goodness to you that is worth engaging, that isn't touched by whatever decisions that you've made. Paul, like that's really helpful to me. And because I think it can be so easy to just view things through the lens of like poor decision was made, this is the consequence, you know, they're getting what they deserve type of mentality and.
31:06
But to actually, when you talk about justice, I would say like actually what the restoration or the reminding of dignity actually probably is what Jesus fully intends, right? Like if the punishment is simply metered out and there's no understanding or shift in terms of how someone views themselves, like I would argue probably justice really, restorative justice hasn't happened. And so the image of you engaging them in that way, it flickers of a pursuit of that. And that's really helpful to me.
31:36
is when I finally felt useful. That's when I started developing my faith because when I started in that industry, I didn't know the Lord. I wasn't in church. I didn't have faith. I didn't have people around me that were encouraging me and helping me in that. The Lord truly built my faith through those interactions with people and through the things I saw and experienced in that industry.
32:06
really grateful for it and hope that I had some impact. But man, it was impactful to me that people who in, I remember a lot of individuals in those back seats, people who had spent their whole lives in trouble, in jail, on drugs, whatever their vice was in their story was. I got so many responses in those moments, in those drives, just because I wanted to know.
32:35
I wanted to know what they weren't thinking. I wanted to know what they would do different. I wanted to know how they got there. And I was genuinely interested in what's next. Do you have anything that can help you when this is over? What's next? And it changed me. Yeah, what I hear and what you're saying, Paul, is like, it seems like God used those experiences to develop in you kind of a generosity.
33:04
and a curiosity. And so I feel like when we're young, you know, we have all the answers, we know all the answers, we know what's right and wrong, it's black and white. And then over the course of our lives, we have experiences where God shows up and is like, actually, it's a little more gray than that. And there's more to the story than maybe he thought there was. And it sounds like that's kind of what he was doing through your experiences with these individuals was developing a curiosity and a generosity towards them.
33:33
Yeah, I think that's a fair statement. I was a little jaded with life through college. My plans had fallen through and I had already mentioned that my home life was stable, but I was alone a lot and didn't get a lot of guidance in life. I grew up without a father, was raised primarily by my grandparents, but I was pretty jaded. I didn't have a lot of investment in me and I was making it up as I go.
34:02
I kind of entered that phase of life and that profession with a hard heart. And looking back now, it needed softened if I was ever going to be the man that God needed me to be. And we can get into where I'm at now at some point and what I'm doing, but He softened my heart in that season of life as His first steps in showing me what He had planned for me.
34:31
I'm forever grateful for that season, even though it was difficult. I'm reminded of, I was talking with my dad who was an attorney for a bunch of years and we were talking about the court system and the process of people going through the court system. And I'll butcher the source of it, but he was saying like, there's a recent study that said, hey, the outcomes of the judicial process like can be...
34:57
accepted in a deeper way when people feel like the process has offered them dignity and respect. And so even if the outcome is one where, say, was unfavorable to a person, the study was like, hey, when they feel like that process has offered them dignity and respect, even if the outcome is unfavorable, there's a willingness to receive that. And so I feel like that piece of the process of how people are engaged of which, you know,
35:23
this phase of your life and this opportunity to engage people in these really hard times. It sheds so much light of like, there is so much significance in that even in the face of immense difficulty. And so again, as I hear you, it wasn't like you gave them some big motivational talk with three ways to change their life, right? As Cody said, you were just being curious. You're offering them dignity to be able to hear more of their story. And I think that is the mark of men who are after God's heart and that restorative journey. And so again, thank you for sharing that.
35:53
Yeah, yeah. Well, I never felt equipped until I was actually doing it. And, you know, if the Lord didn't meet me in those cars and on those trips and continue to nudge me forward, like I had no idea what I was doing. It just felt like the right thing to do. And yeah, those conversations eventually have blossomed into a career in ministry. And so now I get to tell people, I'm a bounty hunter pastor, and it breaks the ice.
36:22
It breaks the ice in every single room and I immediately have street cred and people listen. So you should just make a shirt. Just that's so awesome. I like it. I'll do that. I should make a shirt for Paul. Yeah, you should go. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Well, Paul, thank you for sharing that part of your story, that part of your life with us and what God did through that. It's really fun to hear how he was active in your life through all that. Yeah. Well, it's my pleasure.
36:52
Honestly, I'm 10 years out from that first 10-year career I had in bailbinding. And I don't get to think about and talk about that part of my history. I haven't done that in a while. I haven't went back and thought about that. But yeah, so many foundational layers of faith and just manhood came from that season of life. And I like telling the story that God found me in that space because that's really...
37:21
the product of that time of bounty hunting is that God found me in that space and showed me how I could serve him in that profession, which I think is pretty rare once I was in that profession for a while. So it's neat to talk about, it's neat to remember, and it's neat just to see how God worked in my life through that and hopefully in the lives of a lot of the people I came into contact with. Yeah. Paul, thanks for joining us.
37:49
We look forward to having some more time with you here soon. Thanks, man. All right. Thanks guys. Thanks.