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A Marvel Rivals Podcast hosted by Coach Mills and CaptainCoach, two creator and educators for Marvel Rivals. We discuss all things Rivals including META, balance and the future of development. We will often debate controversial topics that surround the game and plan to bring on many exciting guests from pros to devs!!!
Coach Mills (00:00.594)
What's up, everybody, and welcome to a brand new Clearcoms podcast. Today, Marvel Rivals has fallen to the lowest average player count than we have ever seen. But us three, we're still having a good time here on the pod. We're gonna debate patch 10.5. We're gonna talk about the new character that is coming in season 11, and we're gonna talk about whatever the hell we want to. So welcome. But first, I want to introduce a super special guest, my favorite streamer to watch consistently.
personality galore the goat Kirk cast. Welcome, welcome. What's up? Let's go. Yo, yo, yo. Let's go. Kirk Kirk casting couch. What's up? Let's go. Okay. Yeah. Bro, so how how how how have you been? How have you been? Have you how have you been enjoying rivals this season? I know you haven't been playing only rivals, but you know what how have you been feeling?
KirkCast (00:33.753)
me. What up everybody? What up everybody? I'm sp sandwiched in between two coaches. This is this is Coach Paris here. What up? yeah, yeah, it's right there.
CaptainCoach (00:36.15)
Let's go.
CaptainCoach (00:42.103)
Mm-hmm.
Holy shot he's got the black chair, you know?
KirkCast (00:50.489)
Yeah.
KirkCast (00:59.825)
I mean like the beginning of the season was actually like really fun. It's just like I feel like that since it's just a lack of like content this first bit bit of the season, at least how it feels, like there's no new character, no new map. I know they added like the two V two stuff in that other game mode, but like that's not like my bread and butter. I like I like ranked, you know. I like getting to the nitty gritty of ranked, you know, but I
CaptainCoach (01:21.708)
What twenty twenty five health off a dyno didn't change the meta at all, you think? So
KirkCast (01:25.071)
No, no, not at all, man. I still play him like I'm a demon r right out of hell, bruh.
Coach Mills (01:25.364)
And and Kirk, you're you're a man after my own heart. Ven venom player like me. We both love we love us some some some some eight inches of venom or twelve inches of venom or fifteen. I don't know. I don't know at this point. But are you are I I know I'm still pissed off. Are you still pissed off about the two seconds off the grapple cooldown that they still have not given us fucking back since season nine?
CaptainCoach (01:30.71)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:38.437)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:51.238)
Bro. I remember when they I remember when they nerfed Venom and they put out the Apache they were gonna nerf him and everybody was saying they need to nerf it more. This isn't gonna be enough. Now he's like the second worst tank in the game, I'd probably say. and I don't feel like they nerfed the right thing. Like why nerf his movement, like not the Phoenix team up? I've been saying I tell T chat all the time, like Venom was like, in my opinion, the most balanced character in the entire game before the team up system happened. And the Phoenix team up, you know, it made him like stupid broken, but I don't know, it hurts to see.
Coach Mills (02:06.152)
Yeah yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:06.701)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:19.37)
It it's it seems like they're they only let certain characters have fun. Like I I I feel like that's kind of their balancing. Like I I can't really take the ranked in this game too seriously, but in a way I've almost kind of like broken from the matrix, right? Like I don't I don't have fun with this game. Like if I've I've view viewed rivals as a sport, like baseball. Like to me, Rivals is like playing the beer league. Like you're really only going to enjoy it when you're drunk, you know? Like you're that's that's kinda just like
Coach Mills (02:21.139)
He
KirkCast (02:43.673)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:45.524)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (02:47.744)
If you're not if you're not doing that, you're you're doing it wrong. But I don't view it as like that competitive thing anymore. And it's actually been I've been having more fun with it. I've also been the lowest rank I've been ever in any season by far. And you know what? I'm here for it. Like it's it's Hulk buffs are pretty fun. He's still like the game is so imbalanced. I I feel like it's so imbalanced, but it's just like fuck it. Like what like what else am I gonna play? That that's kind of where I'm at right now with it.
KirkCast (02:58.862)
Yeah.
KirkCast (03:11.031)
Right. Nah, I feel that. Like I've been playing like the the past seasons I always try to like strategically pick like they're playing this character, then I'm a swap to this. And I do that still, but like at the beginning of the round, like I just try to go dyno, bruh. It's just so much fun to play dino, like I only find Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (03:23.288)
Mm.
Coach Mills (03:25.044)
No Dino, I'm not gonna lie, Dido is fun. I agree. I fucking agree Dido's fun.
CaptainCoach (03:27.01)
Well you're a dino enjoyer, really. Holy shit.
KirkCast (03:32.453)
Well when you play Magneto, solo tank Magneto and you get grabbed by Wolverine or you're playing against like Pokeslop or something like that, you gotta get your you gotta get yours back, man. You know, you gotta you gotta abuse the other D P S players, you know, and then it's their turn.
Coach Mills (03:41.566)
Yeah yeah.
Coach Mills (03:45.299)
I think I get the most fun out of this game when I am taking the fun away from other people. Like I'm having all the fun and they don't get the fun. You know? Like like yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm the Thor but Dino gives me the same thing. It's like if i I love it when like they port back at strange and I'm just like, yeah, you're fucked. Like you're you're not playing the game, buddy.
KirkCast (03:52.611)
Indeed. no doubt.
CaptainCoach (03:52.706)
Yeah, that check that checks for a Thor player. That checks.
KirkCast (04:05.323)
Nah, the best is like when you get somebody on your team and they play real bad, and you see their name pop up on the enemy team, when you queue back up and you're like, Alright, gamer pose, I'm gonna lock in and lean forward a little bit. Really try hardest I can right now, you know. And those end up turning out to be like some of the funnest games that you played that session, you know? Right.
CaptainCoach (04:05.528)
Bills.
Coach Mills (04:13.044)
Exactly.
CaptainCoach (04:13.432)
Yeah.
Right, my
Coach Mills (04:21.182)
Yeah, a reason to win.
CaptainCoach (04:21.718)
Yeah. My my opinion of Coach Mills permanently changed recently when I saw something he posted where he's playing Thor on the new map, just kidnapping people, bringing them down to his little dungeon over and over again. I was legit so tilted watching that. Like I I actually I I like you a little bit less now, Coach Mills, just from watching I'm like, you piece of shit. I I can't believe that.
KirkCast (04:32.006)
my god, I saw that.
Coach Mills (04:33.492)
Ha ha you son that shit.
Coach Mills (04:41.012)
No, I I I I've been telling people that Thor you can't make Thor meta. Like he's just that kind of character. Like I know what he is. Like he is so toxic when someone knows what they're doing. He's actually so toxic, but it's so fun.
KirkCast (04:44.769)
Ha ha.
CaptainCoach (04:55.274)
I I got secondhand tilt from watching that. I swear to god, like I I I already ha Thor is already my most hated character. I banned Thor, by the way. Like I actually one of the people who actually bans Thor.
Coach Mills (05:01.723)
Yeah.
I so 'cause you know I forgot what season it was. It was like season maybe seven or eight. They changed the interactions with Thorn Hulk. Like how it used to be is if I dash into a Hulk that was moving through the air in any direction, we both fell on the ground. You can't do that anymore. It has to be very specifically right kind of it's it's a
CaptainCoach (05:22.176)
It y well y ye y you can do it, but it's like you have to hit the sweet spot. It's like ver it's way harder. Like I usually the way I do it is if I have to be reactive with it. So like a Thor will have to go first and I usually have to be pretty close. I think once he starts swerving, that's what it was when they made that change, the sweet spot kinda like changes. Cause they added the omnidirectional thing
Coach Mills (05:41.714)
Right.
Coach Mills (05:46.878)
Right.
CaptainCoach (05:47.331)
That's around around the same time where that interaction got cooked. And that to me was the only way I could win the Thor matchup. And and now as Hulk I I there's just nothing you could do. He just has more health, more damage and better mobility. So it's it's like what do you do? You
KirkCast (05:58.981)
You kind of unlocked a memory. I forgot that they he didn't have used to have omnidirectional movement. He used to just be able to throw him in the straight line. I think Thor is like I think he's just just in a such a sp poor spar spot for like where he's at right now, bro. Like
Coach Mills (06:03.656)
Yeah, I didn't know, yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (06:04.269)
Ha ha
Coach Mills (06:13.01)
I mean I I have fun. I have a lot of fun. But I d just because I just like to get clips and like
KirkCast (06:16.588)
You're like you you you're a demon on Thor. Like if you like if you're pli if you're picking up the tank class, like are you gonna recommend people start picking up Thor? Like that's like a a really grueling character, I feel like, to learn it right now. Okay, you know, I don't r I don't hate it. I don't tell people to pick up Venom, you know, but I feel like when the Yeah, a hundred percent. I feel like when the team up system came out, he kind of like like
Coach Mills (06:26.266)
I I I do. I do I do. More of us. No, yeah, yeah, no. No. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah. No, you gotta you gotta make them understand your suffering, you know? So you bring you bring you bring you bring on board.
KirkCast (06:43.012)
lost most of his momentum or like his like threat level. Like before the team up system, like I feel like he you could easily shred through people, but now like with the all the support, you know, extra team ups and healing and all the excess damage on the field, I feel like he's just really like kinda squishy. He's kind of like not that demon on the back line. But unless you like that guy and you can hit all your Thor you know, your your rune awakening hits, then you can but
Coach Mills (07:05.446)
It's it's because his team ups are really not that important. Like they're really not that strong. Like they maybe gave him a five to ten percent power bump, either or. Like it doesn't really matter. They're both kinda like But there's some team ups out there that are just like, holy shit, it like makes the character insane. Completely changes the character. R yeah, like like a tw twenty percent stronger, maybe like
KirkCast (07:09.169)
Yeah.
KirkCast (07:21.06)
Right. Like Dino Dino Punisher team up, you know, like it's so crazy.
CaptainCoach (07:25.858)
That's
CaptainCoach (07:29.452)
That's actually something I I kinda wanted to talk about a little bit was one, Kirk, you mentioned Thor. He he didn't really technically get anything in his main gameplay loop. His gameplay loop just lasts longer now. And if you think about it, Rivals is all about securing that kill, getting that kill. So if you just let him do what he does longer, he's just annoying for longer and and you know, hard to kill, but never actually like t to me, like something like the Dino team team up where they I mean he's basically a ranged character now with the Punisher that that completely.
KirkCast (07:39.484)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (07:50.747)
Right.
KirkCast (07:58.384)
Right.
CaptainCoach (07:58.863)
completely makes up for one of his weaknesses to where it's just they did not treat every class equally with those team ups.
KirkCast (08:07.332)
Right, they definitely threw a lob to characters like like you said, like Dino didn't have like that he lacked in the range department. They threw him like a range ability. Like not every character got that like spot filled for them. I mean they I would like to see them like do new team ups and stuff like that. Like, you know, we added Gore to the to the roster. Why not throw Gore a Venom team up, you or Venom get a Gore team up, you know, or something like that. I know that Gore's got the Venom team up, but you know what I'm saying. Like switch up some of the team ups, not just like nerfing them or buffing them, would be really cool to see. But
I'll never.
Coach Mills (08:37.428)
Do you ever do you ever think they'll add like a like a third team up for every character? Like do do you think that's on the table for them? Cause I've heard someone talk about that like if like let's say season fifteen, sixteen, they wanna do a big update. let's just add a team up for every character. One team up.
KirkCast (08:43.92)
I don't think it
KirkCast (08:52.272)
Yeah, I could see that. That could be really cool. I could see that. What
CaptainCoach (08:55.17)
I I'm really enjoying the Hulk team up. Like I'm having fun with it, but it it no, the wolf one. The buffed wolf one. So
KirkCast (09:00.56)
Mm-hmm. The Captain American one, of course. Okay, okay. See when the team up system came out I was playing the Wolf team up and everybody kept saying, You gotta play the Captain American one and I get it, like the Captain American one's probably better. But that Wolverine team up, bro, the Wolverine team up disgusting if you get on somebody.
Coach Mills (09:05.916)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (09:18.442)
It's how do I word this? The Hulk Wolf team up is one that I personally I've I was using it even when it was bad, just because again, I've kind of just like I said, broken free. I just play for fun now. It's it's good for my my heart. Like I like it's what I want to play. I really like it, but it's bad for my soul because deep down I know it's like a broken mechanic that really doesn't belong in the game. Because now
KirkCast (09:28.594)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (09:44.104)
The just not being un unstoppable and being unstoppable, right? Is that what it's saying?
KirkCast (09:47.044)
And he punches faster and I think he walks quicker for that as well.
CaptainCoach (09:48.513)
Hulk, Hulk is now broken when that team up is up for for like a small period. You can actually bubble, pop the wolf team up, run at a healer, and get a solo kill. You have never been able to do that on Hulk. His win rate actually went up a lot. I don't know if it's because the wolf team up. I'm not sure on that, but Hulk is he's still kind of shitty because he's just power crep super hard. But he has officially gotten to the point where he's kind of like broken now. And it's weird being able to experience that because.
KirkCast (09:51.771)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (10:17.078)
It like w when I say it's bad for my soul, it's kind of just broken the game. It's kind of just broken how he's supposed to play and how he works in an environment. And this is kind of what I warned about Mills when we talked about like all the way up all our other episodes. We're we've kind of reached the point of no return with with this game.
Coach Mills (10:32.081)
So they they you're you're s they just gave him like a broken interaction, broken mechanic to overpower the broken shit that counters him. Is basically what they did. All right.
CaptainCoach (10:39.862)
Yep. A and and when that's not up or when it like it doesn't work, you're just all in you die. It it so it's just like broken stuff counters more broken stuff. The skill in this game is kind of fading away and it's now just okay, playing around the broken things and coordinating it properly and you know, it that's fun, but to me it's it's more rock, paper, scissors than it is really chess. And and that's I think why a lot of people, if you want to go to it now, move into deadlock.
Coach Mills (11:04.52)
Yeah, I mean that's that's well that's I wanted to talk you know, specifically a as a transition. Like we're in the lowest player count for rivals that we've ever had. Like like daily people that play the game consistently is lower. At least on PC, we don't know the console numbers. Now, maybe the console numbers look different because they don't have deadlock as a direct competitor. Maybe that's part of it. Maybe it's other games, Overwatch is doing well, maybe people are just kind of just tired of the game. In in your opinion, Kirk, why do you think this season has the lowest amount?
Do you think that that's like an actual like red alarm? Like, that's that's like an actual problem? Or do you think that's just normal 'cause there's no new hero? What's your opinion on it?
KirkCast (11:42.642)
I mean, it's definitely because there's like the lack of content. Like no one got super excited for, you know, ten point five, you know, no new character. You know, we got the map last season, but like no new map. They added the new game modes, which I'm s I haven't played the two V two game mode, but a lot of people say they have a lot of fun with it. But again, like it's not like a ranked mode, it's not competitive. It's something you're gonna hop in, play like for like three, four, maybe five days and then like never touch it again probably. But I mean they definitely like if you I feel like if you look at all the player accounts in the past, like the most e
Higher like the highest jumps at the beginning of the season have been the ones with like the really exciting releases or at least like season nine with the team ups. Like a lot of people came back for that 'cause they like, my god, look all these team ups. I'm hoping that they're cooking up something cool for next season. And like if they don't do something if they don't go all out for Doom, like I don't know, you know, what w what are we gonna do? You know, like I think they said like night or the leaks are saying that nightcrawlers coming at the beginning of the season. I'd rather have Doom at the beginning of the season, but
Coach Mills (12:29.928)
Right.
Coach Mills (12:35.982)
Nightcrawler. Well, is think about this. Think about this. Night nightcrawler support into Doom Tank back to back in the same season? Would that not be fucking simultaneous? What what do you what do you what do you think, Captain Coach? Do you think that would be like how many people you think would come back if they did Nightcrawler into Doom plus like a crazy cool PvE mode?
CaptainCoach (12:37.356)
Mm.
KirkCast (12:43.045)
I can see it. I can see it.
CaptainCoach (12:55.51)
You I'm I'm I'm not one for all of the the lore and stuff. Like I'm into Marvel, like the Marvel IP. I think Nightcrawler's cool. What they should do, you know, I don't normally make lore suggestions, is have Nightcrawler use his little teleport ability on Devil Dinosaur and just remove him from the game for a full patch. That's that's that's what I wanna see. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, Kirk. You unlock another core memory for you back when the the Devil Dino was released.
Coach Mills (13:13.096)
Okay, all right, yeah. Kirk But see, like like I like that Kirk I I like that you're willing to adapt like you're playing Dino, you're having a good time. Like there are some people that I know, and I'm not gonna say any specific names here, that when their character is bad in the meta, they will just fucking force that character to just being miserable.
KirkCast (13:14.215)
No, no, my phone It's okay.
KirkCast (13:24.337)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (13:42.355)
And I I like that you're not just spamming games as Venom every single game and just hating your life because that's what some people do. Well, is this I Well Well okay, I I see it most with like Black Panther players. I'm not gonna lie. Like there are people that will one trick Black Panther and they get mad, or one trick blade and they get mad, and it's like, yeah, these characters are ass. If you keep playing them, you're gonna you're gonna be miserable. You can want them to be better, but
KirkCast (13:42.513)
Yeah.
KirkCast (13:47.718)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (13:48.898)
F free from the matrix, Mills. I'm free from the matrix, bro. Like I I'm in GM right now. I'm in GM. I'm in GM
KirkCast (13:52.179)
I'm right there too. I'm right there too.
KirkCast (14:10.471)
I think blades OP, but I think the champion blades are I think the champion blades, they they they're demons, bro. When you run into a champion blade, I'm I fear that. As l at least like there's like probably like two, three tanks that counterplay him, but you're not gonna have that much fun on but we're it's grilling, bro.
Coach Mills (14:10.546)
If you keep playing him, you're gonna be miserable. Like I I don't know. you think Blades OP?
Coach Mills (14:25.118)
Yeah, w tank us tank players we kinda we kinda can get fucked.
CaptainCoach (14:27.522)
Well wait, are you serious though? Like, are you actually serious? Like, you would rather go against a champion blade than a champion phoenix or hella or something. As as a dino player?
KirkCast (14:33.939)
Mm na Champion Phoenix and Hella, I'd rather play against w Blade than probably, but
CaptainCoach (14:38.58)
I you you get the rank one blade on the enemy team and I will take that over fuck like a a GM one poke player.
KirkCast (14:47.409)
Okay, but I'm saying like do you think Blade is as bad like at the when you're a champion blade or you have like blade down pat, like I feel like blade's not actually like that bad. I feel like a lot of people I feel like his entry level is difficult and like actually getting to like his high skill ceiling is difficult. I could be wrong. I just I always see blades going off whenever I play against them.
CaptainCoach (15:06.242)
I'm gonna be honest. I I when I see a champion on any hero, I that generally makes me think they're worse than they are better. I've come like full circle, bro. I've come full circ 'cause like when people show that shit off, it's cause they they're looking for something to prove. Like just let your gameplay show. Like I've always thought that the whole champion thing, this is kind of like a weird tangent. I just never really cared about it. People are like, You get Lord, you got champion, you got this. I'm like, dude, who cares? It just means you play more than other people. Like it doesn't mean you're good, you know? But
Coach Mills (15:13.626)
yeah.
KirkCast (15:14.0)
Namor. Name.
KirkCast (15:32.977)
Right.
Coach Mills (15:35.347)
Well well I will say so I have a pretty small sample size. I only played Friday and then this week. ever since I got Thor champion, I don't fail all that much. Almost ever. People will fill around me. And I feel like they never did that before. Like when I had and when I'm on an ult with no I don't even have the fucking the new icon, I just it's just the default Thor. No no one will fill for me. They're like, nah, this guy's gonna be fucking ass. But the second they'd see the Thor or Lord, whatever, they're like, Okay
CaptainCoach (15:47.214)
I don't know.
KirkCast (15:48.326)
Yeah.
KirkCast (15:58.248)
Yeah. Nah, I feel that.
Coach Mills (16:03.816)
This guy's probably gonna be a little bit better than us, you know, and they let me they me play it, or at least they give me a chance a chance.
CaptainCoach (16:08.44)
The the animated
KirkCast (16:09.009)
What about what about a setting to turn off the ca the the champion and the lord symbols you do all of them are just gone. You wanna turn it all off, you can, you know?
Coach Mills (16:16.262)
to just
CaptainCoach (16:16.48)
I I I'm old school, like turn that off, turn off the skins, fuck your little sparkles and and emotes, like fuck all that shit. Like I I I play with two gray blobs.
Coach Mills (16:21.096)
No.
KirkCast (16:25.296)
Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (16:25.714)
Nah Gray gray tone the whole game. You put them in red jerseys and us in blue jerseys. Let's fucking go Shirts and skins Yeah.
KirkCast (16:28.499)
Of course the Hulk of course the Hulk players over here saying skins aren't all that much No, I'm fine, I'm fine. But I mean, I don't know, like I feel like I do find it like a lot of fun playing the game. Like I'd say like two, three days ago, and I'll say I I think like in the past like like thirty, maybe forty days, I've had less throwers in my game and an abundance of people more so that are just bad and not
CaptainCoach (16:35.682)
That's good.
KirkCast (16:57.959)
bel belonging in my rank. You know what I'm saying? It almost makes me mad. It almost makes me more mad than if somebody's stoned. You know, like somebody's stoned I'm like, Alright, you know, let's burn this next five minutes, I'll get into the next game, but it's like I'm trying my hardest and I just know that this guy over here is just he is anchoring us. Just a bag of bricks on my back, you know?
Coach Mills (16:59.89)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (17:12.748)
Yeah. I
Coach Mills (17:13.874)
Ye Yeah, I felt like an asshole the other day 'cause I I criticized a play 'cause it was like a it was like a ter it was like an obviously terrible play. I forgot what it was. And the person apologized and I was like, fuck me, bro. What the fuck? Yeah Yeah yeah, I'm like I'm like, no, no, you're supposed to call me you're supposed to call me a dumbass and start you slurring at me, bro. This is not right.
KirkCast (17:25.267)
No, I get
CaptainCoach (17:27.822)
I'm sorry, Ben, I'm trying my best.
KirkCast (17:31.813)
CaptainCoach (17:31.998)
Dude, my my favorite thing was when I did the support challenge with Coach Mills. Coach Mills generally, I've do it with him a lot. He's usually pretty chill, won't talk too much, won't flame people. You know, we're playing in Celestial, getting up to Eternity Lobby sometimes. And when I smurfed with Coach Mills, if we were climbing up the ranks as double healer through Platt and Diamond, this guy fucking
KirkCast (17:36.679)
That's funny.
CaptainCoach (18:04.086)
hates these people. He goes in. I I when I like my mindset's completely different. Like when I smurf, I'm just like, you know, where everybody has their own starting point where we go through a process to get better at to me, I don't view it as like I don't even I'm usually helpful. I don't yell at people. I'm just like you know it's it's such no point. But Mills is like, you fucking idiot. You need you you don't know what you're doing. I'm like Mills, don't even waste your time with these people. It's like no you don't he get so mad. It's so fucking funny.
KirkCast (18:04.403)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (18:05.512)
No.
KirkCast (18:19.984)
Right.
Coach Mills (18:23.485)
That's
KirkCast (18:28.285)
Ha ha
Coach Mills (18:29.384)
Well they th d they well they they will complain about and say stuff like they'll suggest shit that doesn't make any sense. They will suggest shit that doesn't make any sense. Like they'll die to a BP, like off in the back and they're like, Can we get a shield tank? If I'm I'm not gonna heal if we don't get a a magneto I'm like, what the f what are you saying? No, it it actually drives me crazy because it's like it's like but they'll say it like like it's fact. Like I don't fucking
CaptainCoach (18:36.974)
It's so fucking funny.
KirkCast (18:38.461)
Ha ha.
CaptainCoach (18:45.006)
Just ignore them.
KirkCast (18:45.512)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (18:50.56)
It's so good.
KirkCast (18:54.257)
With such conviction.
Coach Mills (18:55.462)
I I I here's what I think it is. It reminds me back when I used to be 'cause I like I I've I told people this back in Overwatch I used to be hard stuck silver. Like way, way back. Back when I started. And I played so many hours in silver and pla like it took me a long time to get good. And I just remember the confidently bad t like takes, opinions, solutions, and I it just when I play in those ELUs, I like I just like I can't I I can't I can't fucking take it, bro. It's too it's actually too brain dead some of the stuff that people say.
CaptainCoach (19:04.714)
Okay.
CaptainCoach (19:18.318)
You're getting PTSD, bro.
It's I
KirkCast (19:22.973)
think it's cause we're tank players too. I feel like it like if when you play tank, you know when the heels are not going well, when the damage is not going well, when the front line's not being held well with your other tank or for whatever reason. Like, you know, when you're playing support, I feel like, you know, you might be able to tell when the you know the the damage isn't going well. Otherwise you're just either just dying. You know what I'm saying? The dive and you're like, no peel, no heel you know, but
CaptainCoach (19:34.295)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (19:42.888)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (19:46.05)
What what do you think how have your games been like from a toxicity standpoint, Kirk? Have you noticed games being any any better or worse?
KirkCast (19:54.325)
I do think they've gotten better. Honestly, like I've I'd say like in the again in like the last 40 days or like maybe 30 days or so, like I've had less throwers. I I get still get toxic people in the game, but like it's mostly just people talking in all chat, like trying to avoid using their microphone, but for the most part. I mean, you get some people on the enemy team that are weird or like you know, they obviously notice that you're streaming, so they want to type in the chat and get their like three minutes of fame or whatever, and and look on the computer and see that they're typing in it or whatever.
CaptainCoach (19:56.322)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (20:18.779)
Yeah, right.
CaptainCoach (20:19.682)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (20:23.668)
It's it's cause all the toxic it's cause all the toxic players went to deadlock, bro. I'm just come just I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
KirkCast (20:23.794)
But you know, I I feel like it's actually gotten better, honestly. No, I don't think so. I people bro, I I haven't seen anybody be talking on a deadlock, but again, like I I haven't seen that many people use their their their mics and I haven't all have haven't even played rank, so
Coach Mills (20:36.177)
Whoa whoa.
CaptainCoach (20:39.532)
Well, they they did just to right before this pod, like a few hours before the podcast, we started recording here, did make a public announcement on cranking up the nogs knobs of their toxicity detection systems, which I feel like this is a little late. They should have done this probably two weeks ago. But they also mentioned discrimination and it's like a r really like long written thing. to me the fact that it's this late
KirkCast (21:01.012)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (21:05.576)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (21:09.356)
Because I think they already made the change, by the way. As someone who Yeah, Mars yes.
KirkCast (21:11.772)
Talking about Marvel Rivals? Yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (21:13.148)
Yeah, so yeah, they they they basically made that that announce it's like four tiers. They'll give you a warning, then they'll give you an up to, you know, like a like they'll mute you up to three hundred and sixty-five days, potentially, depending on how bad it is. then they'll give you a temporary ranked ban, and then they'll give you a perma ban. Like it like it's like it's like it's like an escalation system where you know, like if you keep doing it.
KirkCast (21:23.241)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (21:29.83)
Yeah right. I I think when all the like the popular controversy was going on, I do think that they had done something at like without publicly announcing it. Just 'cause like when the flame is high and then the fire is hot, you know, you don't throw anything on it. You know what I'm saying? You know? But like, you know you know, doing like a patch under the table and then announcing it later, like I can understand that from like a like a corporate, you know, safety standfor you know, PR standpoint, but yeah, I I think so.
Coach Mills (21:44.518)
Right, right, right. that's that's a good that's a good point.
CaptainCoach (21:47.458)
They
CaptainCoach (21:53.731)
They they for sure did. Because I have I have three accounts banned right now and I have been doing the same stuff I've always been. They for sure did. Yeah. Trust sources, trust me, bro. Whoa. I I wish I could yell at someone like Coach Mills yells at a diamond player. I swear. Like if I if I could just summon that energy.
Coach Mills (21:59.637)
I've been saying the same no, I was kidding, I was gonna say say the same slurs same the same sl I've been saying the same slurs I've always said and now I'm banned. No, I'm just kidding, okay?
KirkCast (22:00.308)
Ha ha.
KirkCast (22:12.285)
Ha ha ha.
Coach Mills (22:16.692)
No, i the thing is like going through the support ex the support challenge, like I understand why support players just I mean I was pissed off at tank players more than anything else. Low rank tank players, they are they don't have a single I'm I'm I'm sorry if you're a low rank tank player that listens to this pod. Yeah, you I mean you don't use your fucking brain. Like it's it's actually the worst quality of players in my opinion in the low ranks. Because if you
KirkCast (22:29.614)
Yeah. Well I can't imagine.
CaptainCoach (22:30.392)
they're so bad. Yeah.
Coach Mills (22:45.508)
I if you just meet the standard the of of a tank, you're gonna climb to at least Grandmaster, in my opinion. Like the bare minimum standard. Like the bare, bare minimum standard.
KirkCast (22:52.588)
Right. I mean, I feel like a lot of people like they they play tank like they play D PS. They try to like make sure they're not getting too hurt. You gotta play like you're crazy, bro. Like a lot of the time like if you're gonna play in tank, like that's the time where you just like let the demons take over, the parasites take over your brain, you know?
CaptainCoach (23:07.566)
Mm.
Coach Mills (23:07.572)
That is an interesting thing because like tanking in video games is not reflective of like like real world experiences. Like as an example, let's say you grew up playing paintball or airsoft. Like you're playing cover, you're playing for angles, you're doing all this shit. The entire concept of playing to take damage and take aggro and like put like that is not an inherently there's nothing human about that concept. Not really. Like it's not it's really just a gaming specific concept.
KirkCast (23:27.132)
Yeah.
KirkCast (23:35.675)
Right.
Coach Mills (23:36.424)
Maybe it there's a disconnect there. I feel I feel like people pick up D P S a lot easier. yeah, I go kill I go you know.
KirkCast (23:40.828)
Yeah, I just go, I shoot, I kill, you know. Support's kind of like that, but backwards. he's low, I shoot, I heal, you know. I feel like, you know, whenever somebody comes in my chat and they say, like, how do you start tanking? and like any tips to start tanking, I'm like, You gotta let the the voices take over. Like, are you hearing the voices? Like that's what you yeah, you gotta you gotta play like that, you know?
Coach Mills (23:46.098)
Right, right, right.
CaptainCoach (23:47.244)
Yeah that th I was gonna say
Coach Mills (23:55.462)
Hahaha
CaptainCoach (23:57.538)
That
See, that that's an interesting tip because for me, I I mean, I think you're kind of hinting that you kind of just whatever do do your own thing. Is that what you kind of what you're saying?
KirkCast (24:08.712)
I mean to a some degree, like if I can tell that I've got decent supports and decent DPS, like I always tell like I play with a a Spider-Man one trick main, like you gotta give him the alley oop as much as you can. Like like if you're playing Venom or whatever it is. But like I mean I I try to enable my team to the best I can, but I'll also try to like use them to enable me.
You know what I'm saying? I feel like a lot of tanks they think that, my role is to play the front line, block a lot of damage, maybe shoot a little bit, but like they don't understand like the aspect of like you're also like not a support character, but you're supporting your DPS, you're supporting your your supports even with the peel or shielding them off from damage. But like they they lack the aggression. You gotta have like the aggression to play tank as well, like knowing when to go up and when to when to get aggressive or try to make the play.
CaptainCoach (24:42.282)
Yeah. So
CaptainCoach (24:50.679)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (24:50.888)
Yeah, there's there was a lot there wa especially like in Diamond and Low Grand Match, there's a lot of like just completely standing around when you're you have a huge advantage and a tank will not move. And maybe they feel that way because they ha you know, I don't know I don't know wh what conditioned them to feel that way, but they don't really understand like what is happening. Like what like like what the what should they be doing? They need to be walking, you need to go.
KirkCast (24:58.579)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (25:13.472)
Like to offer a tip for tank players watching because it this is kind of the process I use. so if because in my opinion, just to kind of preface this whole thing, I think the idea of playing tank is mostly just to keep a somewhat stable team environment where the healers can heal, the DPS can DPS, right? While giving your healers all church, I think that's like a big part of it, right? But so to me, I view it in terms of
KirkCast (25:33.033)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (25:37.78)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (25:42.265)
Imagine like a rushing river and there's a series of floodgates blocking the water. If you are a tank player, you are going to go do what is you're gonna try to close the first gate first, which is the what is the number one way that your team will immediately fall apart. Well, it's like if you don't have a front line. So the first thing you should be doing as a tank every game to just cause give your chance, give your give your team a chance to be better than the enemy team just by making it easy for them. And you'll win.
KirkCast (26:10.164)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (26:11.096)
pro over half your game shit just doing this well. So just frontline, take damage, kill anyone getting close to your healers, and just maintain a semblance of a team, like I don't know, like a like a cell, like a right? Right. And okay, so it's like, okay, what if that doesn't work? Well, if it doesn't work, is it me doing it? You gotta think about this. And then this is why tank is the hardest role. You have to be adaptable. Okay. Is it my fault that they're
Coach Mills (26:24.018)
Look at so.
KirkCast (26:24.904)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (26:38.134)
our team dynamics not working, our healers are still dying. So do I need to go and find the people diving? And then that's where you branch off. But every game, so and you know, you go down okay, so that flood floodgate has now broken. We can't really frontline anymore. It's not working. And then you go down the list. You have to be methodical with it. And I think a lot of people lack this ability.
You have to be somewhat analytical. And I I don't think the other roles need to do this. DPS has to do it a little bit. Healer pretty much never has to do it because your your best thing is always going to be heal body. But tanks have to be adaptable every game. And if you go through this process of what is the the easiest way for me to reach my win condition and then go down the list until eventually you figure out what your job is. But I I think like a good way if you want to just climb is yeah, do what you said, like and just be better.
KirkCast (26:55.4)
Yeah.
KirkCast (27:02.291)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (27:23.894)
You know what I mean? Just be better. But I I I also think too though, this can be like a trap, right? 'Cause if you try try to do this thing, you c this is how you get hard stuck. Like, I need a frontline. This is the only it's like, nah, if like if something's not working, sometimes the best play is to just go crazy and go carry the game, you know? So but I to me I always start with like, Do we just win if I frontline? i we do. Okay, free win. You know what I mean?
KirkCast (27:23.988)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (27:28.51)
Yeah.
KirkCast (27:39.175)
Right.
KirkCast (27:43.837)
Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely times that and I feel like like like you said is the like the one like of the most important things about being a tank main is like being adaptable, being able to pick the right character. Like a lot of DPS p players or maybe even support players think that like Doctor Strange and Magneto are like hand in hand, like they're basically the same character, but they achieve things like totally differently. Like there's a big difference between playing strange and magneto or playing like
Thor in the thing, like or or I would say like thing or rogue, you know, they're both good peel characters, but like, you know, the thing isn't as C C heavy as like rogue is and sometimes you need rogue instead of like the thing to to C C the back line or C C the front line or C C the ba you know, your peel or whatever it is. But like you said, like I don't understand like like you you see to the tank streamers, like n y'all probably could relatively pick up almost any of the tank characters and play half decent, right?
But like D PS characters can't do that. Like they're stuck into their like three character bubble, four character bubble. Like I play all the tanks. Like w you know, I can play at any of it at any time if needed. But like I'd like to I I would like to see that energy from like D PS mains a lot of the time. They're like they're stuck in that one trick little you know, they're like an ostrich with their head in the ground, you know, I'm gonna play this and I'm gonna lose playing this if so, you know, but
CaptainCoach (28:56.878)
Do you do you agree with that, Mills? Do you agree 'cause you play DPS. I I I kind of agree with that. I I do think that DPS Like DPS players are kinda locked into a few heroes. I I do think the skill ceiling on DPS heroes is for the most part higher.
Coach Mills (29:00.83)
Wait, wait what do you mean? Like like playing
Well there's less but that adaptability thing you're talking about, like there's there's I like I would say like tanking skill is probably like eighty percent across all the tanks. It's like the adaptability stuff, understanding I threat identification, take creating space, all that stuff. And then there's like twenty percent is like intricacies between the tanks themselves. Versus DPS is not that. It's almost like probably like the opposite, where it's like eighty percent of it is the differences and like getting the most amount of value for your character.
KirkCast (29:08.102)
Yeah.
KirkCast (29:33.908)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (29:34.857)
So like they don't need like I don't need I don't necessarily need them to I don't I don't need my Spider-Man to like perfectly adapt to or like like I don't need him to understand the problems. I need him to hit his fucking combos. Like I like that's what I need from him. Is like I need him to execute properly when I set up the positions for him. Like, I don't know. Like I I I like to use basketball analogies, but it's like it's like, you know, you we need to know the play, set up the fucking pick, set up the the screen, whatever you need to do.
KirkCast (29:48.638)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (30:03.272)
And when they come off come off the fucking screen, they need to hit the three pointer, right? Like that's what we need from them. We're setting up the play for them. They need to hit it. And so like I would right. They they they need the execute and so like it's to me it's fine if you stay in a little box as long as you have enough variety in that box to where you're not gonna get completely countered. Like like if your box is one character, like or like
KirkCast (30:06.642)
Right.
CaptainCoach (30:10.038)
Right. Execute. They need execute.
KirkCast (30:23.42)
Or like or like magic, Spider Man and Silog, like yeah.
Coach Mills (30:26.052)
Yeah, it's like this and you and you lose the same shit. Like you have to be good against a variety of things, right?
KirkCast (30:31.858)
Right, like like at least like diversify like you gotta be able to play Namor, bruh. If you're a D P S one trick, like you only play D P S like you gotta be able to play Namor in my opinion. Like so easy, like boom boom, po poke, poke, bubble if need be, you know? Like it's just so it the thing that drives me up a wall is people not TPing, bruh. Like you don't know how to use strange D P, bro. Like
CaptainCoach (30:37.208)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (30:37.502)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (30:44.392)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (30:48.908)
dude.
CaptainCoach (30:50.442)
I don't do that anymore. I don't TP. I I've come full circle. Don't want to play strange, not TPing. Sorry. I don't it's not a serious game. I don't care.
Coach Mills (30:51.892)
no, I'm gonna lose my shit. I'm actually gonna lose my sh when I w like like the the com the combination of making sure you die in time to TP, TPing, someone swapping Loki, Loki totems out to help the the the contact into like whatever ult or whatever is so broken as like a little package that any fucking team can do, but no one does it. Like they just don't do it. They don't they don't do that shit.
KirkCast (31:01.556)
It drives me up a wall.
KirkCast (31:16.006)
No one does it. No. No, they don't.
CaptainCoach (31:17.93)
No, I've I this the I I I I feel like I'm part of the problem now.
Coach Mills (31:22.952)
You've let go of the you've let go of the rope and you're like, fuck it. You know? But it's fun though. Cause the it it's a lot of it's a lot of I I I think about it as holding a rope. Like it's a lot of pressure to hold the rope, like really trying to do everything perfectly. And like when you just say fuck it, you know, if if things don't go right, I'm just swapping to Spider Man or BP or like I'm just gonna do whatever I want, like you don't feel that pressure anymore. Right.
KirkCast (31:24.136)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (31:26.656)
I Yeah, I I
KirkCast (31:34.324)
Yeah.
KirkCast (31:41.393)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (31:42.221)
I'll do when I play with friends. Like I don't want to let my my friends down. But I dude, like I like I said, I just play for fun now. I don't re I truly like I I don't dunno I I don't ha Alice Express. I do not care about winning like I used to. I just don't. And it's it it's been fun. But about the tanking thing too, you know, it it's obviously very comp dependent. I think that's one thing a lot of people aren't able to do is think about like, hey, we we have a Hulk
KirkCast (31:46.548)
That's fair, that's fair, that's fair.
Coach Mills (31:47.752)
But that
Right.
CaptainCoach (32:06.904)
Daredevil, magic, you know, like obviously we're going to dive in like frontlining right now. We'd so like in that situation, you'd be like, yo, healers, just stay away or stay back or like find something to do. So I think there's a bit of a communication element that comes into. Also think when talking about the thing with like execution mills, there is like a point where it's you're not good enough and you should just swap. And I think that I wouldn't say that's so much an issue with the player base as it is with the game.
KirkCast (32:17.587)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (32:31.82)
Because I think if the game was was more balanced and every hero had tools to deal with more situations, because the skill ceiling of the game, like when you actually landed something, it mattered, or or like did it did a play or did an ability, and there weren't these just buttons where you press one thing and you just like like a Namor squid can pretty much solo a Spider-Man. Like this might you know what I mean? So it's like if if they had just toned down these things instead of doing what they're doing, just r keep ramping it up. I don't think this game would just be a rock, paper, scissors, like swap.
KirkCast (32:48.56)
Yeah, exactly.
Coach Mills (32:48.915)
Right.
CaptainCoach (32:59.32)
carousel, it it would be more skillful, but unfortunately this is kind of where we're at now. So i it's it it's not the direction I wanted to see the game go in. And I think the good players always do find a way, but it
KirkCast (33:02.951)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (33:10.002)
And I and I and I ag I agree with you a hundred percent. I just it's hard. And what would I say that it's hard to bounce like even I know Rivals has done it really poorly, but like it was like this in Overwatch 2. Like I got to the highest rank in Overwatch 2 as as tank. So like my main role was D PS, but as tank, I just fucking you just counter swap. You literally just counter swap it's it's it's it's five e five, so it was one tank. You literally just counter swap their tank consistently and it's like impossible to lose. Like if you have a like a
Yeah because the th it's like it's that exact thing. The rock, paper, scissors dynamic. It's very hard to not create. If you make a character unique, you give it unique strengths and weaknesses. That you always do. But it like it it takes thought really thoughtful balance to create what you're talking about. And it's just not e I just don't think it's easy. Like I I would love it, but I just I think you'd have to release a character a lot slower. I think you'd have to be a lot more thoughtful with how you're adding
KirkCast (33:48.851)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (34:07.292)
you know, things and maybe have like a like a like a commandments of balance. It's just it's not easy. I don't think it's easy. I wish it was, but it's like like I said, Overwatch ran into the same problem. I I this is running into that problem. You you see it even a little bit in deadlock, even though they they have items that can kinda help. You probably see it a little bit in league to an extent. There's probably matchups there. I don't know what they are, but I'm sure that there are matchups. I mean
CaptainCoach (34:31.712)
I I think the biggest thing holding rivals back is that you can swap anytime you want. I still I still I think that's the big like if the game would be way better if you just couldn't swap to well I'm getting shit on, better swap. 'Cause I I think it does kind of expose some of the or it would expose some of the heroes that are clearly just weaker than other heroes.
Coach Mills (34:51.71)
So like lo lock in how how long would you lock in just they have to pick a character the whole game?
KirkCast (34:52.401)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (34:55.468)
I mean ideally the whole game, but I would say maybe half time. But then it would just be like a guessing game and that's not really healthy either, so
Coach Mills (34:58.462)
Cause it's it's very funny that you bring this up 'cause so I just watched I don't know if either of y'all watch baseball. I don't really watch baseball, but I just watched the Dodgers Brewers game. and like one of the things they did shit. What yeah. So one of the things that they did is you know, they the Brewer subbed in a pitcher. I forgot it was this game or last game, but they subbed in a pitcher and the pitcher, like his immediate first I f I think it was like his immediate first pitch
KirkCast (34:58.472)
Have time.
KirkCast (35:13.256)
Go Braves.
Coach Mills (35:28.264)
got fucking slammed and it g it it made a double like I think Will Smith hit it and it made it made a double run. And then his next pitch, someone else hits it. And so they they made a mention. Like I don't even really know the baseball rules, but they said, it has minimum three. When you sub in a pitcher, you can't un you can't unsub that pitcher out for a different pitcher until they pitch at least three at-bats. So like they're locked in to pitching for three at bats
No matter what. It doesn't matter how fucking bad you're pitching, you're locked in. It's like that's what they were saying. And so like the c the idea here is that you're committing to this person and there can be a cost. Like if it backfires on you, you're fucked. You're committed to this. You're committed. Like i i i in in the So you can't just just swap. You can't just swap, be like, they pitch once and it's a shitty pitch. You just all right, we'll we'll pull you, we'll we'll replace you. you're gonna pitch once, you tuck. All we'll pull replace you know, like it's like a like a minimum required pitching. I thought that was interesting, 'cause it's kinda what you're talking about, where it's like
You are committing to you might you might commit to something poorly. Like you might pick Spider Man and they're on no more, but you're locked into that for maybe the half or something like that.
KirkCast (36:35.41)
What about like what about like okay, 'cause like I feel like the problem though you'd run into is like, you know, if you're say I mean, one you'd have to have like roll queue, like two two, two role queue feel like, but like if you queue up Spider Man and the enemy team's playing Hell and Amore and you're playing Spider Man the whole game, you're like, my god, I'm just gonna run this game down and run wrong. But what about like what about like each team gets like a three timeouts in their, you know, attack push or defence push where
Coach Mills (36:50.952)
Yeah but he he he
CaptainCoach (36:52.418)
Yeah, buff Spider Man. Then buff Spider Man. You know what I mean?
KirkCast (37:02.196)
You know, we call time out, we can swap up the characters and then the enemy team could also do that. Like I don't know though. Like next time I die I'll swap into this character and you know, you get to converse with your team you get twenty five seconds, but
Coach Mills (37:06.753)
in like a like a swap phase.
CaptainCoach (37:11.084)
You you just have a a a a hero selection in the pick band phase. The where both teams can see, so you can counter pick. That's where that's where it happens. And then you're stuck with your pick, right? And if you make a counter pick, right, then you're that's that and then maybe at like I like I said, like half time. But that that rule you're talking about for baseball, Mills, that was added recently. That's a new thing. That
KirkCast (37:19.751)
Okay, yeah.
KirkCast (37:29.673)
Yeah.
KirkCast (37:34.098)
Yeah, that's not they I think they only used to have to throw one pitch, right? Or something like that.
CaptainCoach (37:38.221)
That rule was put in in twenty twenty-three when they introduced the pitch clock, which was a really good change for baseball. And they put that rule in as a counter to the baseball meta developing, which is crazy considering the sport's been around for over a hundred years and the meta is still like 'cause the teams are all about analytics and there's been a lot of rules added to baseball to keep it old school. And I think that is one of the rules I actually didn't know.
KirkCast (37:44.052)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (38:04.098)
that they were locked into three at bats. Like I didn't know I I thought it I thought it was only one. I I I'd probably have to read the rule to know for sure. But yeah, they added that because teams would just p analytics per per at bat, bring in a left hand pitcher for a a left handed batter, and then they would just do that to to basically like just pump out some quick easy outs. Right. And it was super toxic, really bad for the game 'cause it slowed it down. And then yeah, I mean you think it is.
Coach Mills (38:24.444)
Right. Money b money ball the fuck out of it. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KirkCast (38:26.781)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (38:31.644)
It's similar. It's kinda similar to what that's going on right now. It's exactly it's exactly that. You ha you ha you have the fucking the right handed the right handed Spider Man and you bring in the pitcher, Namor, that's really good against the fucking right handed. You know what I'm saying? It's the sa it's like exactly that. It's literally exactly that.
CaptainCoach (38:34.55)
It's very similar.
KirkCast (38:34.62)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (38:42.414)
Right. Right. Well, this is what I'm saying. Like if if we had restrictions on how may maybe just make it more penalizing to swap e
Coach Mills (38:52.552)
That that's my favorite thing. Make it so ultimates across the board. We've been saying this a lot. Charge much slower. When you swap, you lose your ultimate completely. I like this change because it's you are trying to build to something that is valuable. And if you d if you're like, I'm just gonna go counter swap, well you fuck your ultra charge. You know, you the you lost it.
KirkCast (39:10.332)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (39:11.606)
It like to me right now, I mean the game has been like this for a while, but the more and more imbalancing it gets, the more it's just going to be this. It is basically you you're inevitably, if you care enough about winning, are pretty much going to be swapping to the same three to five comps every game. So if you start on one hero, like let's say you start on Spider-Man, unless like we talk about execution, setting up that pick and roll, landing the three, unless you're able to do that like really well, which the margin of error is getting smaller and smaller because how crazy these heroes are.
KirkCast (39:29.383)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (39:40.703)
Every game is going to be just swapping carousel until we all just boom land on the same heroes. Emma, Dino, fucking just poke characters. And it's just that's not competitive. That I'm sorry, that's just not. To have that knowledge to be like, I should just play this and be able to execute at 70% on a poke hero rather than 95%. Well, yeah, obviously on Spider-Man, yeah, obviously I'm just gonna play the poke hero. And it's it's been like that, and it's just keeping it it's moving farther and further in that direction, in my opinion. And it's gotta stop. Like for instance
KirkCast (39:45.871)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (40:10.254)
like they nerfed the thing punch. I thought that was a good change. Like Elsa bullets, dude. Elsa can do one combo to me as Hulk, and I'm dead. Literally one. Boom, boom, boom. I'm I'm 20% CC'd. I'm just dead. Because my jumps reset. It's it's cancer. And that's not even considering if I go over a trap. If I go over a trap as Hulk, dead. If I get instant boop while Hella's on me, even if it's not that or the Elsa dead, that the Hella stun. I mean that that's
KirkCast (40:18.706)
I hate Elsa Tom.
Coach Mills (40:19.674)
It's fucking scan there.
CaptainCoach (40:37.314)
That's better C C than a support and easier to land and it stops your jump. It's like the game is so broken right now. It's so broken and it needs to be fixed. Like and and and if I'm going to take this game seriously competitive, things like that can't be in the game. Sorry.
KirkCast (40:51.264)
Yeah. But you know game isn't like that.
Coach Mills (40:53.66)
And yeah, it was so so speaking of which, speaking of which, so I I I do think that the there's a lot of competitive problems in rivals. And I think, you know, a lot of competitive players are kind of frustrated with the game, and that's where a very, very competitive game has kind of recently taken over, you know, at least the popular discussion, deadlock. and it's been, you know, cop probably I think if any rival streamer has felt this where it's just like every stream, it's just people popping into your stream like
CaptainCoach (40:55.544)
Ha ha ha ha ha
Coach Mills (41:21.256)
Hey, you can play Deadlock? You you play Deadlock? Yeah.
CaptainCoach (41:25.026)
But Mills, Mills, that game is too competitive. It's too much. It's too it's what It's not j just right. It's gotta be perfect. It's too competitive.
Coach Mills (41:28.581)
Yeah.
KirkCast (41:30.332)
Don't even know what's going on. Why are you shooting minions? Why are you punching boxes? What?
Coach Mills (41:35.733)
And and and that's g and that's why Kirk I really wanted you on because you've been kind of you've been a rival streamer, but you've also been like more variety than basically anyone I know 'cause you you know, you've you've fostered a pretty strong community and you do a lot of different kinds of streams. You know, played some Warzone with you bat or some colody, or I forgot what the fuck we played. We played Battlefield Six. One of one of the one of the gun games, you know, military games. but
KirkCast (41:58.645)
I think it was Battlefield Six. I think it was yeah, something like that.
Coach Mills (42:05.704)
What's your thoughts like i I I know you played Deadlock before, but what's your overall thoughts of the game and what do you what's your opinions on like some people leaving to go to Deadlock or
KirkCast (42:14.928)
I so I played deadlock like five or six months ago and I hated it. Like I spit on the game. Like I could not stand whatever was going on. I don't know what they changed like in the past, like whatever time between that. But like I was like, alright, I'll give it a good another chance. I see people playing, I'll hop on it. But I mean I think it is very grueling to learn at first. Like if you just think, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna learn that way. No, like you can go play a game or two, game play like three, four, five games.
You're gonna have to get off, you're gonna have to look at a couple TikToks, you gotta figure out what the fuck's going on to even have fun. But I like that. Like, I like enjoying the learning experience in a game like that. Like, there's a lot of like complexities in the movement, the characters, the items, and I don't even know still like what all of them do. But like, I mean, I there's an exciting part of it, like how Rivals was at the beginning, and I don't want to compare the games like too too much because they are like different structurally, but like
Coach Mills (42:45.108)
Mm mm mm mm.
KirkCast (43:08.488)
I don't know what this character does, but whenever I'm I'm playing against him, he just does this to me and I gotta figure out how to like not let that happen. You know what I'm saying? Like Bebop, he hooks you. You know, you gotta learn like, you know So you gotta learn how to not get hooked, you know? Or somebody's just punching the shit out of you. What do I do to not get punched, you know? I like the I like the learning curve for that. I think people swapping over, like, I don't I don't I don't hate on it. Like like I played Rainbow Six Siege before I played Marvel Rivals and like
Coach Mills (43:18.305)
Right. You get a there's a lot of shit to li yeah.
Coach Mills (43:24.03)
Yeah.
KirkCast (43:36.361)
I played a lot of a lot of variety games before that. But like once you start getting viewership and cultivating like a content like basis for like a game and it starts doing well, like start leaning towards it. Like I posted a a deadlock TikTok and it did really well. So I'm like, hey I wanna post some more deadlock TikToks, you know? But I don't you know I think like again like the game Marvel Rod is just a little boring right now. Like it feels like the same as like almost like season nine came around because like there's no new team ups, there's only like a couple of new characters, like a you know, a map here or there.
But like deadlock's exciting, like you know, it's like going from like a Toyota Camry to like a you know, a a GTR or like a you know, insert like, you know, sports car. Like it's exciting, it's new. I gotta be careful 'cause I don't wanna fuck this up, you know, but
Coach Mills (44:11.141)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (44:20.386)
That that game is so sweaty. I got a friend who's a he he he basically says I mean he p he likes deadlock, but he says every time he plays, he just goes plays to get flamed by people. He he there's never a time where he does not get flamed. Cause even in the lowest ranks, and he's like a casual mobile player, doesn't play shooters at all. He's not good. Every time I play with him, he just totally feeds and does bad. But he he likes it just because he actually enjoys playing the game, but holy shit, that game is so that it's so sweaty. It's so sweaty.
Coach Mills (44:21.158)
Haha.
KirkCast (44:24.216)
So sweaty.
KirkCast (44:47.356)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (44:48.902)
It it it's it's really funny if we think of like competitive like hero shooters, like levels of of how sweaty they are or how competitive they are. Like Rivals is probably on the far end of like casual. Like it's very, very casual. We're we're kind of really, really far in one direction. Maybe a couple of deviations forward from like something like fucking Roblox or some shit. Overwatch is probably somewhere in the middle. And deadlock like all the way the fuck over here. Like it's such a completely different
KirkCast (45:13.682)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (45:17.202)
I feel like some people are gonna get whiplash from like just how competitive it is comparatively. 'cause it is it is like very sweaty. Like extremely, extremely everyone that's playing that game is trying to like very, very hard to
KirkCast (45:24.894)
Mm-hmm.
Min max every second of the game, you gotta be doing something to to get to the you know, the goal.
Coach Mills (45:32.764)
Right.
CaptainCoach (45:32.835)
To to me, it it it doesn't really fit for the MOBA genre, and it's why I've been very vocal about I think Deadlock will be a pretty popular game. And I think it'll it'll be similar to something like Dota 2 in popularity, but it'll it'll never be truly truly mainstream because I mean you think of what a MOBA is, generally longer games, there's a scaling component where you start at level one, you get to higher level with this game, it's reflected in souls, right?
there's a scaling where if you do good early game, that'll snowball into a late game. Well, in a game that is as demanding mechanically, in terms of like what your actual inputs need to be as deadlock is with the movement in that game, you can get such a lead just by moving around the map, which I don't know if they've taken a look at that. it's it's the definition of punishing. Like if you make a mistake early in a MOBA, you are behind.
KirkCast (46:13.939)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (46:22.76)
You're gonna fill it for the rest of the game. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (46:23.958)
You're stuck in that. And the deadlock games are longer than League of Legends game and games and it's more punishing. I I think to me that's not a recipe of of a successful game long term. That being said, I see the appeal. Like there's it every game is super intense, every moment, every shot. But to me, do I want to play that game as a thirty seven year old? A game like that? Probably not. Like I
Coach Mills (46:47.668)
And so for for me, you know, I played Deadlock quite a bit back, you know, a a while ago. Like when it was, you know, not really I like I played it when it looked really shoddy and then I played it again after, you know, it kind of got re remodeled and everything looked cool. I just don't fucking like MOBAs, guys. Like I I don't know, maybe my brain isn't deep like the the veins in my brain aren't deep enough to, you know. yeah, your your camera's kind of spazzing out.
KirkCast (46:48.116)
It's fair.
KirkCast (47:12.404)
I don't know what's going on.
Coach Mills (47:15.548)
If you have to you can always hop out of the car and then come back in and I can cut it.
KirkCast (47:20.148)
I think it maybe it stopped after I refreshed it. Is it still doing it? I think we're good. Sorry.
Coach Mills (47:26.26)
Think you're good. But what I was thinking is like I don't know if the if the veins in my brain aren't deep enough or what, but like for a MOBA for me, like I can't I just can't really get behind like I can't get re behind the genre. I think that Deadlock has such like there's been a lot of care and love into the game. Some of the hero designs are so fucking cool. Like I've seen they're so amazing. If Deadlock was a arena hero shooter, like Overwatch, like Rivals, I would probably be on that shit right now, playing the fuck out of it. But it's but but but
CaptainCoach (47:44.387)
it's awesome. It's awesome.
KirkCast (47:45.214)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (47:53.81)
Who's to say they don't come out with something like that though, you know?
CaptainCoach (47:56.118)
Mm.
Coach Mills (47:56.563)
I mean a TF three type style game, but like to me, deadlock is like it's at the end of the day, it's a fucking MOBA. And I I'm I'm just I'm not trying to and it like if I was gonna play a MOBA, a MOBA where I have to have perfect mechanical skill for fifty minutes and get ten kills is not a game that's just not that's not a like I'm not trying to perfectly mechanically play
CaptainCoach (48:16.387)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (48:20.894)
to this top tier of execution for small advantages in a in a very long grindy game. Like I I would rather probably I would rather pick up something like League, to be honest with you, personally. But I do see the love and care that Deadlock has like they've put a lot into the game. It's it's really impressive.
CaptainCoach (48:34.528)
I I think MOBAs are meant to be somewhat easy. I think that's kind of partly why the game the the the genre of game works, because there's a a component to it where the game is almost purely Are we good with the camera? yeah, we're so it
Coach Mills (48:46.716)
I should wait.
KirkCast (48:51.954)
I don't know what's I don't know what's going on. I think it might be OBS. Let me see.
Coach Mills (48:52.336)
It's it's bad's it like I
Are you are you are you streaming in both here and in OBS?
KirkCast (49:00.529)
I using I'm using my OBS virtual camera for for this. I don't know what to do about it.
Coach Mills (49:03.292)
Okay, okay,
Coach Mills (49:08.51)
Like I said, you can ha that you can you you can always use that link again, so if you need to hop out and hop back in so you can get your camera.
KirkCast (49:13.202)
I don't know if it would fix it or not 'cause it's
here, well I could just do this. I could do this. Give me one second, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Coach Mills (49:23.004)
No ru no r no rush.
Coach Mills (49:31.228)
I think I've drank too much fucking caffeine today.
I seven hundred milligrams is like my limit.
KirkCast (49:39.506)
Of caffeine, my guy?
Coach Mills (49:41.266)
Yeah, I think that's my daily limit. I don't think I can go over that. It's like not working anymore. It's like it's like ha it's a it's reversing ask for some painkillers.
CaptainCoach (49:45.624)
That's a lot. You built up a caffeine resistance to
KirkCast (49:47.378)
That is a lot. Like heavy.
CaptainCoach (50:07.808)
Might be because you have two cameras open up on your stream.
KirkCast (50:10.992)
Yeah, I'm trying to turn the one off on my camera and just turning the one on this.
CaptainCoach (50:16.994)
One thing I've seen people do is yeah, just they just full cam their face and just have the audio play.
Coach Mills (50:24.34)
Yeah, 'cause you you can also screen share this entire thing that we're looking at right here and you know, screen like you know, have this use your camera, then screen share this whole thing and they can see all of our faces. Works too.
KirkCast (50:36.449)
I'm trying to get it off the virtual camera and onto my actual camera, but it's being
KirkCast (50:43.613)
If not, I might just go back to the way I was doing it. sorry, sorry, sorry.
CaptainCoach (51:22.23)
How long you want to make this one?
CaptainCoach (51:28.194)
Yep. Looks good.
Coach Mills (51:29.638)
Yeah he's back he's back baby Okay okay
KirkCast (51:30.854)
There we go.
CaptainCoach (51:36.502)
I forgot what I was saying.
KirkCast (51:39.176)
Deadlock's fun though. I can't lie, like it's scratching my brain. I'm I like to play, you know, you like you said, I play a variety of games. Like play like indie spooky games. I always check out like the shooters, like War Dogs, COD, Battlefield. Like I try to touch like all the genres that I can, you know. Like I even like personally like like Civilization Six or Rimworld, if you know what Rimworld is. I like all those kind of games. Like
CaptainCoach (52:01.934)
Okay.
KirkCast (52:04.128)
I've never really played like a MOBA, no League, no Dota, no Smite, like nothing like that. I played Wild Rift on my phone like a long time ago, but like that's like to my extent of what I've played. and like I like the competitiveness of like of Deadlock. I don't like losing for forty-five minutes. That's why I stopped playing Valorant, you know, that's why I don't play that shit no more. But
Coach Mills (52:22.26)
Yeah, yeah, like that I also hated Ven I did not like V I did not like Valley. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (52:22.636)
Ha ha ha.
KirkCast (52:28.038)
I couldn't pl I couldn't sit there and lose for 45 minutes, but Deadlock seems to be a little more palpable to lose. I don't know why. Maybe it's because I'm just a little, you know, you know, a young flower blossoming, but I don't have ranked unlocked. You know, I've got I think like twenty wins, maybe a little bit more than twenty wins in it. Yeah, you don't know how to you don't know how you get to ranked? You don't know how to get to ranked in the game? So you know how like you queue up in the game. Like you can't queue up one character. You have to queue up three characters, and if you pick one of the new characters, you have to cut so like
CaptainCoach (52:30.904)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (52:41.4)
do they have their own ranked mode in it now?
Coach Mills (52:43.336)
They do. You need you need to win like sixty wins. You have to win sixty three
KirkCast (52:55.866)
I queue up Rat King and three other characters, but okay, okay, okay, okay. You have to win on fifteen you get fifteen wins on three different characters and then I think like another fifteen wins somehow to unlock ranked in general. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (52:56.332)
Yeah, no, I I have over two hundred games in deadlock. I I did when I played they didn't have a rank. I haven't played in a few months.
CaptainCoach (53:09.34)
that's great. That's actually great. Because that was like one of my big problems with it is when you go right into the game, you are immediately I mean, I t to be fair, I was playing with people who were legit the highest rank. So my my lobby skill I I probably had a different experience than most people because of the friends that I play Rivals with. They were trying to get me into the game. So I was in these high ELO lobbies like really early on. And you know, I've played MOBAs before, so first couple of games I kind of fed, but I eventually held my own. I did improve fast, but
Forgot what I w what I was gonna say about the
KirkCast (53:41.864)
Character select ranked.
CaptainCoach (53:45.467)
w so the MOBAs they just naturally attract a really sweaty crowd. I I think it's always kind of been that way. Just because of the nature of the games, they have a lot of depth and a lot of out of game research I think you have to do and and strategizing your builds. Cause if you don't, like I said, you know, like you said, you're just stuck in that game. But I feel like it's really obvious who the League of Legends people are who played Deadlock and who the Overwatch people are who played Deadlock. Like they stick out like a sore thumb, bro.
KirkCast (54:00.658)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (54:10.405)
Ha ha ha.
KirkCast (54:10.822)
Yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (54:14.55)
And to me, the League of Legends people, I feel like, are more my people, but when the Overwatch people come, they like they'll say stuff that's just so out of left field that I'm just like, bro, it's a MOBA. Like relax. Like like they'll be like, G G game's over.
KirkCast (54:25.16)
I can't help myself too though. I'm I'm part of that crowd. I'm not helping that argument. Like I I'm like a lot of people are like, I'm gonna sit back, I'm gonna shoot a little bit, kill the minions like I'm like, all right, let's get in there start beating the shit out of people, you know, like I can't help it. Like right as soon as the game starts, I wanna walk up to Smite and start heavy meleeing them to see if they parry, you know?
CaptainCoach (54:32.814)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, bro.
CaptainCoach (54:41.92)
Well you you know what you you j you type in chat, you just say, This is limit testing, you know. Limit testing someone else's game.
KirkCast (54:45.21)
Yep, yep, yep, exactly. Exactly. Like I was playing with we were playing last night with me, Mad Little G, Panoo, Mark, and Inferasu and like halfway through the game, like we're like towards their their part of the camp or whatever, like their their spawn area. And like there's a group of four people and Panoo's like hell holding them back, like shooting, shooting, shooting, walking back, and I'm like coming on the zip. And like I get off the zip and it just flings me at like all of them way faster than I was expected. I'm in the four of
Coach Mills (54:45.882)
I just have
Coach Mills (55:11.89)
Ha ha ha ha!
CaptainCoach (55:11.906)
Yeah.
KirkCast (55:13.136)
I popped my old it like it was cool. I died immediately, but it was still like it was fun, it was cool. Like at the the the the hodgepodge of everybody being together, like the team fights in that game are like over stimulating in like the best kind of way.
CaptainCoach (55:18.274)
My
Coach Mills (55:24.894)
So so here's an interesting thing that I wanted to bring up actually. I have it on my sticky note, that I fucking wrapped up into a tiny little I don't know why, I'll just fidget. so when we when we looked at viewer counts, not like a like a couple seasons ago, we saw that like, you know, it was we were fluttering between like a hundred K to like a hundred and forty K people. but on console monthly there was like over twenty million people that played Rivals every month on console, PS five.
and like it showed that like the console audience of rivals actually far outweighs the PC audience by like orders of magnitude. And the interesting thing here is like you know, everyone's saying, deadlock is gonna steal everybody, but console players can't play it. And I and you know, I'm sorry, console players. I'm sorry to y'all if y'all this is the first time hearing this, that game is not fucking coming to console. Like it out under no circumstances, there's no way that game is coming. There's no there's I mean you could do that.
KirkCast (56:16.456)
I don't know, I can see them making a console. You anything they could put it on the Steam Cube or whatever it is, or isn't Steam coming to Microsoft?
Coach Mills (56:23.068)
You could do that, but i is Liga on the console, is Dota on the console? I mean Smite is kind of, but it's like
KirkCast (56:27.292)
I think mapping on a controller though, like like it doesn't make sense like like like I feel like the mapping could work on a controller. The movement like is like very kind of controller y. Like if you're gonna air strafe like like it's like controller ish, but
Coach Mills (56:35.058)
I guess they did put TF two. I if they put if they put it on the console, it's gonna be exactly like CSGO was on or not CS. Yeah, CSGO. I played CSGO on the console. And and i I played I played TF two on the console. It they're they're shells of the PC versions. It's not it's not like they put the full version on. You couldn't get fucking hats, you couldn't get the items
KirkCast (56:46.662)
I didn't know that CSGO is on console. I knew that was, yeah.
It's like the rust, yeah.
KirkCast (56:57.308)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (57:00.062)
For the different bow like you couldn't use a bow on the fucking sniper and TF two. You couldn't do like all the all the things that added depth to that game later on. Well you can only do on PC. C S, same thing. Like the the balance updates. They even they even stopped updating it. Fuck I fucking played it back in.
KirkCast (57:15.645)
But be honest, like how far out are we from like consoles being obsolete? Like you think we're like five, ten you know, five, ten years? Like, I don't know no gamer you know like my little my little brother in law, like he plays on a monitor with his PS five. Like, you know, how far and then isn't like a big problem, like I forget what it's called, but like being able to play with controller and mouse on a console, like
Coach Mills (57:20.34)
now now see now now we're fucking talking. We're now we're talking. They're obsolete today. No just kidding. I'm kidding.
CaptainCoach (57:27.274)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (57:39.124)
See see I think I think before consoles become obsolete, we are gonna jump them to like some type of VR system of some sort. A hundred percent. I think I think VR is like probably ten years out to being this like super legit thing. Apple's gonna Apple's gonna pick a
KirkCast (57:46.855)
You think so? Yeah.
KirkCast (57:53.223)
You don't think Xbox is like right there where they're like, I wanna c release an Xbox con mouse and keyboard? Like, let's do keyboard and mouse on the Xbox now, you know, you don't think that's sooner?
Coach Mills (58:00.693)
I there's too many ca like cat like casuals casuals are so powerful, bro. Like coming home, playing some fucking Madden, playing some rivals just on the weekends. Like casuals are fucking so powerful. And they're still a rat like they're still here, like millions and millions and millions of people. I mean we're about to see GTA break every record imaginable, and it's only it's it's not playable on PC at launch. There's no multi-
KirkCast (58:06.962)
Yeah.
KirkCast (58:13.993)
That's true.
KirkCast (58:24.531)
How many people you think on the Twitch browse page gonna be day one GTA five or GTA six? How many viewers is is the Twitch browse page gonna have? Four or five million? I th I think more.
Coach Mills (58:31.166)
my god. That's gonna it's gonna have a mil. At least a mil. Yeah before a five, yeah, at least a no, it's gonna it's gonna be like one streamer's gonna have like six hundred K. Like a single streamer is gonna have six hundred K.
KirkCast (58:40.721)
It's gonna be like it's gonna be like four or five million the next game is gonna be or like just chatting's gonna be like two hundred K.
Coach Mills (58:47.636)
Yeah that's
CaptainCoach (58:48.366)
I I'm
KirkCast (58:49.385)
You know, I bet every gaming com company is like bracing themselves. Like they think it's like the plague is coming.
Coach Mills (58:54.324)
Well that well that's the thing is like Deadlock Deadlock has stolen like PC gamers and I think like you know, GTA is gonna steal console gamers, like probably, like c quite substantially. Although it is it is expensive, you know, it's not free. So it's not you know, like like I I think one of the biggest appeals to rivals is the fact that it is fucking free, right? Like you can't always you know, but come Christmas time when everyone finally gets GTA from for their Christmas present and then you're losing you actually did lose Like you actually did lose
CaptainCoach (59:03.566)
Hundred percent.
KirkCast (59:13.821)
Yeah.
KirkCast (59:20.883)
my god, it's gonna be insane. And then you're gonna get the next wave whenever the multiplayer comes out and
Coach Mills (59:24.594)
But well that well that's when that's when the thing that's I think that's when gaming gets truly fucking crazy because that's when you're gonna get fucking Doomsday, Doctor Doom's gonna be out, GTA's gonna be coming like there's gonna be like a lot.
KirkCast (59:35.985)
Are you playing are you playing Marvel Rivals Doomsday over GTA Six?
Coach Mills (59:40.307)
I mean it's only the campaign. There's no multiplayer. I be you'll play through the campaign and then it's over. That's it. Like how how many how many hookers am I gonna run over? But so yeah, okay, okay. I'll go to the well well bro, character I'll play I'll play GTA RP with you when it comes on fucking multiplayer. We gotta set up a whole clan of that shit. That'd be so fun.
KirkCast (59:42.437)
I don't care, bro. D I remember the campaign No, you don't know how to play GTA then. You don't know how to play GTA then. You gotta go to stream club, you gotta do the side missions. Like that thing's gonna be riddled with side missions and stuff.
CaptainCoach (59:53.4)
Ha ha
KirkCast (59:58.727)
I'm down for that.
I'm down. I I played GTA RP back in the day, like when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to like mainly stream, but dude, it was fun, like you know.
Coach Mills (01:00:08.744)
We should. We should w it would be sick. I want I want Captain Coach to be an RP character of some sort. Bounty Hunter.
KirkCast (01:00:12.457)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:00:13.228)
I I would that'd probably be the only way I'd play GTA is RP. I I'm really truthfully, I I hate to be a a buzzkill. I'm not really that excited for GTA. And this is coming from someone who San Andreas, the original, like when it came out, that was my pretty much my favorite game. But like I experienced it, I played it, I enjoyed it, and that that enough that was like good enough for me. So I I I I'm not buying a console for for just for GTA. I'll just watch some streams.
KirkCast (01:00:16.915)
Like RP, yeah.
KirkCast (01:00:23.283)
That's fair.
KirkCast (01:00:34.577)
I feel like
Coach Mills (01:00:36.318)
Vice Vice City's my go. I love Vice City.
KirkCast (01:00:39.875)
You don't think like right now, like gaming needs that sandbox chaotic, like even if it's just you in the lobby, go figure it out, blow shit up, like you think that they're gonna not go huge on GTA six? You don't think the missions are gonna be sick, like
Coach Mills (01:00:41.565)
That's fair.
Coach Mills (01:00:48.838)
Hey.
I think I think I yeah. So so
CaptainCoach (01:00:53.656)
I I don't it'll be good, but I'm like, you know, there's other stuff I'm enjoying right now. Like like while forever I'll be playing that. I like I said, I'll be watching streams though, but I'll I'll probably buy GTA when it comes for PC.
Coach Mills (01:01:01.137)
I
KirkCast (01:01:01.553)
I can understand that.
Coach Mills (01:01:03.762)
yeah, wow. Wow's another one. Yeah, that's a do it's like like this Christmas is crazy for gaming. Like it's actually fucking bonkers. so I never actually played a single game of GTA five. I never downloaded the game. I never tried it. I never played it. I never touched it. I watched it. I I would watch XQC play that shit all the time, RP, but that's about it. That's like the only thing I
KirkCast (01:01:06.375)
Wow's big release.
Yeah, it is.
KirkCast (01:01:19.593)
That was my childhood.
CaptainCoach (01:01:24.236)
I I bought it for RP, tried it, played for an hour, got bored. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, it's and that's not I'm just not into single player games.
Coach Mills (01:01:28.68)
Mm.
KirkCast (01:01:30.479)
Nah, dude, I'm telling you, coming home from school, ripping some GTA with the homies, dude, that was like peak experience. Like. And like I remember in middle school, or I mean high school when it came out, I had like a like four or five guys that we'd play GTA five with. And we would just find like the dumbest things to do. Like there were like these little tiny rivers that went up the mountain, and we'd get jet skis and we'd go up to the top of the mountain with jet skis. Like it's like small stuff like that. I think like
Coach Mills (01:01:31.454)
Couldn't Hawk. So
CaptainCoach (01:01:34.762)
Yeah. It is probably who you play with, right? Like
Coach Mills (01:01:36.537)
yeah. Right.
CaptainCoach (01:01:51.246)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:01:53.158)
Is it just chill?
KirkCast (01:01:54.737)
I think also just like the meme behind it, like this came out before GTA six, like that came out before GTA Six, like Yeah. Like
Coach Mills (01:01:59.505)
It's fine. We were here, we surviv yeah. I mean I always I I always hear those stories like they didn't make it they didn't make it to GTA six, you know, like it's sad. That's it it's it's historical. You gotta you gotta you gotta
KirkCast (01:02:11.161)
Y it's like yeah, exactly. It's like it's hor it's historical. Like now we're gonna be talking about GTA seven, you know, like the what? Like what could they do?
Coach Mills (01:02:16.348)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:02:17.206)
Yeah. Like I I definitely wanna be a a part of it. Like I'll be an observer, but there's it there is a certain element for me too, just 'cause I'm sure some people in the comments like, What the hell is wrong with coach? Like, you know, as a content creator, you do you do have a certain urge to kind of stay in your lane a little bit, I think is a bit of w maybe what it is. 'Cause I do I wanna play GTA six? Yes, absolutely. But will I? No, I'm gonna wait. Because it's it's just one of those things where you you gotta be smart too.
KirkCast (01:02:41.106)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:02:41.558)
Also, I think like something is is broken in my brain when it comes to certain games. Like you mentioned deadlock earlier, where I I'm almost at the point where if I know I can't be the best or at least competitively like have a chance at being the best, to me, I just completely distance it entirely. I don't like what like psychologically, I don't know what that is where
KirkCast (01:02:58.788)
Right.
No, I do that with games too, like like when Clash Royale was really popular a few months ago, like I had like grinded Clash Royale like when I was like younger and like I saw like Jinxie playing Clash Royale at like a competitive level. I like, I could do that shit, you know what I'm saying? So I I started doing that shit on my phone, you know. Like I li I can appreciate like the the thought process of like seeing a game
Coach Mills (01:03:15.502)
KirkCast (01:03:22.78)
Wanting to get to the like the upper echelon or like the highest like skill ceiling of the game and like also like viewing it from a a of an aspect of like, can I actually get to there in like a a reasonable amount of time? Like to get to like the the top of deadlock, like bro, like that ship has sailed, bro. Like you're not you're not making it to the top of deadlock anytime soon, you know. Marvel Rivals, you could, you know.
CaptainCoach (01:03:35.564)
Right. So much work.
Coach Mills (01:03:40.765)
Yeah. Right. I and it it's it's actually it's actually interesting though. I don't know if you've heard. There are quite a few pros that are like really like rivals pros that are really desperately like scrimming and grinding the game with the intent to sh jump. I don't know if you've heard about that. the deadlock, yeah. But like like like I'm not gonna lie like I mean good luck to them. If they can do it, that's sick, but it's
CaptainCoach (01:03:41.538)
And and that's what I would want. That's what I would want.
KirkCast (01:03:55.111)
Yeah. Nah I haven't. But I mean, we had the refugee squad last night playing it. It was fun.
CaptainCoach (01:03:55.993)
To deadlock.
Coach Mills (01:04:04.488)
I mean, I saw the same thing happen with Valorant. It's very hard to make that transition. It's not as easy as you would think. It's very, very, very difficult. And especially 'cause like there's a lot tons of League of Legends like really good League of Legends players and Dota players and like all these players that like they can jump too. It's like it's hard. It's gonna be hard out there.
KirkCast (01:04:08.135)
Yeah. I mean
KirkCast (01:04:18.021)
Yeah. A lot of people I mean, a lot of people too, like like I can totally understand like being a streamer and having a number on your viewership and then like playing a different game and your viewership being different and like having an energy towards it. I mean I I'm a little bit outside that box 'cause I do a second segment variety every single stream, like spooky game, you know, whatever it may be, you know, so I see it I see it change every night, you know. So like I've actually been doing like three segments now with deadlock, but
Coach Mills (01:04:34.204)
Yeah. You yeah, I think you're doing it right. That's fucking yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:04:38.541)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:04:40.476)
Well cause
'Cause that's what I wanted to
KirkCast (01:04:43.441)
And I've I've converting people. I'm seeing people in the chat, like I'm like, hey, like have you guys started watching me play it and want to play it or have gotten it and start playing it and liking it and like, yeah, like
Coach Mills (01:04:50.436)
Yeah, you're no he's the he's a he's the he's a fucking Nah, this is what I talked to. I deadlock people people that promote Deadlock are fucking Jehovah's Witnesses, bro. I swear. Y'all motherfuckers will not shut up about Hey, go it have I heard the glorious the glorious church of Gabe? Yeah, you wanna come play? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm serious. It's like every fucking stream. but like talking about like the stay in your lane thing, like I think it's interesting. So there's a big difference these like with modern creators, so
KirkCast (01:05:01.033)
Sure.
CaptainCoach (01:05:04.684)
You have you heard the the good word of Rat King?
Coach Mills (01:05:20.232)
YouTube and and short form content, like YouTube long form and like short form, very different because of how your communities get entrenched. So like as an example, like if you're if you're someone who has grown in rivals or overwatch or whatever game and you've made like a consistent amount of content on that game, you can't just randomly yeah, I'm just gonna start posting deadlock content on here and then I'm gonna go back to rivals. I'm nice to do Overwatch. You can't do that, but if you're a TikTok creator
CaptainCoach (01:05:44.492)
Mm.
Coach Mills (01:05:47.347)
You can do this and that and this and that and you can kinda get rewarded for whatever you want. And if you stream on TikTok, it goes beyond via algorithms. So like you can kind of do whatever you want. But like in on YouTube long form, because I did this, I I I did Overwatch and I made the exact like the transition to to rivals. You have to commit to one or the other. Like I could switch to go, hey, I'm gonna do deadlock now. I can't go bad then back to Overwatch. Then back to Rival. Like you ha like long form makes you
KirkCast (01:05:56.169)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:06:02.343)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:06:13.031)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:06:16.882)
Because when you build up that subscribers, you're being blasted to your same audience. You're like trying to feed them consistency, right? And it's like TikTok rewards you for almost hopping on whatever's the new hot thing. Like whate it like like you can you're you're posting deadlock and going viral right now. And when GTA comes out, you're posting GTA and going viral then. And then when Doctor Doom comes out, you posting that. You can't do that on a long form channel. not consistently unless your channel was built like that. But it had to be like news or something would.
KirkCast (01:06:22.555)
Right.
KirkCast (01:06:28.286)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:06:35.26)
Right.
KirkCast (01:06:39.855)
Na
CaptainCoach (01:06:44.886)
Or your personality. I I think if like you are entirely personality driven.
Coach Mills (01:06:46.738)
I mean that's very rare. Yeah, but you'd have to be really big though. Like you couldn't do that as like a mid size or small streamer.
CaptainCoach (01:06:52.15)
Yeah. There's a s I would say there is a certain level of maybe not luck, but almost kinda like right person, right time sort of thing where like dude like it is so as someone who's done this before, like Kirk, shout out to you, man. Variety is not easy, bro. Like it and you will experience a fall off
KirkCast (01:07:08.841)
It's not
Coach Mills (01:07:10.996)
well yeah Kirk is built for it. I'm telling you're bur you're built for that shit, bro. Yeah.
KirkCast (01:07:14.793)
Appreciate it. I would do you should have seen me before my rivals came out, dude. I was I was trying every game under the sun just to try to get some numbers up, bro, you know.
Coach Mills (01:07:21.724)
Yeah, but you didn't you didn't fucking give up though. Like that's n ninety nine point nine percent of people did. You know, like they yeah
KirkCast (01:07:27.012)
Yeah. Well, I I came into streaming like with a different mindset. Like I was working I was working in a sales job that I didn't like. I was valeting and like my like brain kept telling me I was like, I don't want to start streaming to start making content. And like I had some social anxiety about it. Like, what if my friends see me posting this or whatever? But like you really like if you want to start streaming, like in my mind, like you've gotta structure your mind in a in a in a titanium box. Like, can't let social pressure get to you. And if you're gonna do it, you either like
You can do it for like a hobby, but like you gotta go into it. You're gonna say, I'm gonna do this for the next three years and I'm gonna work harder than anybody else. I'm gonna post all every day, I'm gonna post multiple times a day. Like I'm gonna force it to happen. Like, you know, there's a aspect of luck to it. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I'm not gonna say like you can just pull anybody off the street and make them a streamer with enough hard work, you know? But the harder where you work, the luckier you get. You know what I'm saying? So like I'm Right. And like like I
CaptainCoach (01:07:55.191)
yeah.
Coach Mills (01:08:16.732)
Right. Putting putting your number in the hat multiple times, right? Exactly.
KirkCast (01:08:21.765)
I I'm just like too ADHD to play Marvel Rivals for six hours. Like I would probably make more money. I'd probably have more followers, more viewers if I just played Marvel Rivals for six hours. But like I'm at the end of the day gonna play what I wanna play. Like I'll play Marvel Rivals for two, three hours to you know, I I have a fun time playing it too. Like but like my brain's like at the point where I'm like, I don't know, play Deadlock like I'm gonna swap to Deadlock 'cause like it's not gonna be as entertaining for my chat. And like, dude, they like the spooky games, bro. They like seeing people get scared.
Coach Mills (01:08:26.117)
Ha ha ha.
CaptainCoach (01:08:27.246)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:08:48.996)
I yeah, dude I I like watching you play the suicid case, bro.
KirkCast (01:08:51.549)
And and I just like you just never you really never know like content wise what could actually pop off. Like my my top three pieces of content across all my social medias, not even Marvel Rivals or R6 related, and those like my biggest the one minute that's probably the most viral well
Coach Mills (01:09:04.75)
One minute. One minute. Yeah. One minute. I love that shit so much. I I watch it every time it pops up. It's getting reposted by like people will repost that. I I yeah, dude, it's actually crazy.
KirkCast (01:09:11.846)
I like I yeah. I'm still getting stuff on it on on YouTube and stuff, you know. But like Mecha Chameleon's like my biggest thing ever. Like I've got that game was awesome when it came out, but you know, I got on it, you know, I was getting collabs together for it, trying to get streamers and stuff to get in on it and like I made a post on it and then it went crazy and I got a bunch of followers, viewers, you know, from it. But like you never know until you go try it and you start doing it. and like it can be discouraging, you know. I post like a
CaptainCoach (01:09:20.502)
I love that game.
KirkCast (01:09:40.421)
a scary game TikTok. I'm sitting there editing a scary game TikTok. I'm not gonna be able to monetize it well or like get a bunch of viewers on it. But like there's like a core audience or commu people in my community who like to see it. You know what I'm saying? So like I kinda like you know, I wanna appeal to them. I want them to see, you know, this guy doesn't only do, you know, Marvel Rivals. He's not a Marvel Riv he's like a variety guy but he plays Marvel Ross. That's kinda like how I prefer it to be.
CaptainCoach (01:10:01.804)
I got I got two questions for you, Kirk, and I'm I'm genuinely curious to hear your your answer. Well, first of all, how many like viewers do you average roughly on your TikToks and then your Twitch? Just curious.
KirkCast (01:10:12.129)
on TikTok, I if I'm playing okay, so like if I'm playing Marvel Rivals on YouTube, I'll stay around like 70 to 100. TikTok, I'll stay at like 70 to like 150 ish on like a good night. On Twitch. Yeah. And on Twitch, like I'm usually at like like if I if like an hour and a half into stream, I'm probably at like like 250 to 200 ish. Sometimes more, it just depends. Sometimes I'll bump up. Like I did like a really funny thing and it came my thumbnail on the
CaptainCoach (01:10:22.848)
Okay. So that'd be like a middle size, like middle size content creator, probably, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:10:27.72)
And then Twitch.
CaptainCoach (01:10:34.487)
okay.
Okay, well
KirkCast (01:10:40.659)
Browse page, so I like a bunch of people coming in, you know. But
CaptainCoach (01:10:43.566)
Well you'll you'll be the perfect person to ask for this then, because I think you're you're actually like the the perfect. two questions. Has content creation ruined gaming? Has content creation ruined gaming for you? Like do you have less fun than you did before? Cause to me I I kind of feel that a little bit.
KirkCast (01:10:49.993)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:11:01.274)
okay, the first question has content creation ruined gaming? I think that content creation doesn't help gaming. Like I I think it does to a certain degree, but if you're looking at it like a net positive, net negative, it overall, like it depends on what game. Like Marvel Rivals, I think content creation's a net negative. Like, I feel like, and I don't wanna, you know, I'm not pointing the finger at nobody or anything like that, but like if I post if you know, I'm the funny hee hee ha ha guy, I'm gonna post a funny ticker talk on Marvel Rivals.
And it does really well. I want to post another funny TikTok so I get more likes and stuff like that. But like if your content is like speaking negatively or starting drama, like I from the inside looking out, like I understand like you wanna keep posting that kind of stuff because that's what's gonna get you followers, viewers, likes, etc. etcetera. And I think like Marvel Rivals is like the punching bag, you know, a lot of people like just sit there and shit on the game, hate on the game, it you know, top to bottom the entire time. I I don't
I don't like I see them and I can understand how people could feel like that, but I personally don't feel like that. Like I think Marvel Rivals is like super fun. Like I go into every game with a positive mindset. If I see like, you know, people calming, I'm trying to sling a good vibe, maybe make some people laugh in the games, like the best games are when you're getting like the whole crew, like these all these randoms, like you're rallying them together to like actually try to win or like sling a good vibe or do something funnier or just out of the ordinary instead of like sitting there sweating.
Coach Mills (01:12:20.026)
Yeah, all right.
CaptainCoach (01:12:21.25)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:12:30.365)
But overall I think content creation for Marvel Rivals, like what content do you see on Marvel Rivals go viral? It's all think pieces. It's always drama, it's always think pieces. It's not somebody doing something that's like cool or or creative. you know, I say like that, but like Zoteic's really good at that. You know, I love Zotayic. He makes good content. Exactly.
Coach Mills (01:12:36.24)
A lot a lot of negativity, a lot of drama. or yeah.
Coach Mills (01:12:47.122)
Hey or or it's cra Captain Coach crashing out at random people. Yeah, that goes viral too.
CaptainCoach (01:12:47.936)
I I
CaptainCoach (01:12:54.498)
Wow. Jesus.
KirkCast (01:12:55.495)
But like and I'm not, you know, pointing the finger at anybody. Like I I understand it, you know, like I there's things to pick out at the game. There's things that's wrong with it, like, that need to be talked about. but like to what extent, like if you're posting five or six TikToks on the same subject, like, come on, like it's getting a little dragged out in my opinion, but which I make the same kind of I make Marvel Rivals melting in your brain context. So it's somebody could say the same thing about me. You know, I post them a hundred of them
CaptainCoach (01:13:07.395)
So
Coach Mills (01:13:08.316)
Yeah, they may be
CaptainCoach (01:13:09.898)
Your your argument is that con
CaptainCoach (01:13:17.357)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:13:18.61)
But it's it's it's fun. It's it's interest that their entire personality is to hate on things. One thing or the next
KirkCast (01:13:25.297)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:13:26.094)
So you would your argument then is that the negative co content typically goes up and it you know, c it just kind of goes up through these algorithms and it creates this kind of toxic environment where it makes the game perception less fun for people. 'Cause I do think there's a lot of good that has come from the discussions from the content.
KirkCast (01:13:43.357)
Mm-hmm.
I'm not saying that I'm not saying that nothing has good g good came from it, but I'm just saying like, you know, a lot of it is, you know, circulated, just rinsed and repeats.
Coach Mills (01:13:53.647)
N negativity does go viral more, especially on short form content. It's like like FOMO, negativity, yeah, a hundred percent.
CaptainCoach (01:13:58.403)
FOMO does too. Big.
KirkCast (01:14:00.008)
Yeah.
But like on a game like like Wardogs for example, like if I'm if I'm playing Marvel Rivals and I'm super toxic and like I do something like, you know, I'm gonna go like viral on TikTok if I do like something super toxic or I speak like negatively about something or whatever. But like War Dogs, for example, like I I posted a video of one on Wardogs on Instagram one time where like instead of reviving a guy, I took all of his clothes off and like all of his gear and ran off and like one of my teammates.
Coach Mills (01:14:29.5)
Man.
KirkCast (01:14:30.407)
And like I had like a list of hate comments, but it's just like this is not good behavior. Like this is not okay, not good. Like I like, all I'm gonna delete this, not gonna put it somewhere else, but.
Coach Mills (01:14:36.525)
Ha ha ha
CaptainCoach (01:14:39.374)
Don't don't you think a lot of games life cycle get speed run due to over optimization and chasing meta too? Like did this exploratory process kind of just you we skip that and get you know, like back in the day, you know, as someone who grew up where like there wasn't really an internet to play games, you know, back before the internet. No, but like you you you'd have to go ask your friends. You'd have to go buy a guidebook at at the store, right? And and that we just skip that step now. And
Coach Mills (01:14:41.256)
That's crazy.
KirkCast (01:14:58.835)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:15:05.361)
Right, right.
CaptainCoach (01:15:09.514)
I I do I do agree with you. Like it does create this kind of toxic almost I wouldn't say elitist because it's just kind of become the norm now, right? That like if you're gonna go into rank, you better fucking know what the fuck you're doing. You better d you didn't watch that person's guide or like figure out the tech. Like what are you doing? Why are you you you like like
KirkCast (01:15:16.904)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:15:22.406)
Yeah.
There's no adventure to it anymore.
Coach Mills (01:15:26.256)
It's it's it's actually funny. So it's this is gonna be kind of a like a it's it's an out of nowhere example, but this was an example. So I like I used to play Magic the Gathering like pretty competitively in tournaments. I used to travel for tournaments and stuff. And so there was a meta that formed in Magic the Gathering where like there was decks that were good against other decks and you could kind of bib brew whatever, right? Well, there was a whole bunch of changes in bands that just happened and it felt like the format felt wide open. You could play whatever you wanted, everyone was having a great time.
But there was this big tournament that was gonna happen with all the pros, all the top pros, the most amount of money ever. And that tournament, the pros, they kind of kept under the wraps until the tournament. There was like two decks that were l so much better than everything else. And they kind of spoiled the bag. So, like after that tournament, people only fucking played those two decks. And
CaptainCoach (01:16:10.38)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:16:17.53)
Like it was miserable. Like the entire it turned it went from this oasis of everyone's free, everyone's figuring things out. we're gonna we're gonna homebrew to you're just getting shit on unless you play these two things and it's cause it's 'cause the the optimization cycle just like completely flipped. Right.
CaptainCoach (01:16:20.11)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:16:33.71)
It's toxic. And it's not it's anti-fun. And in imagine being a developer trying to design one of these games and then having these intricate mechanics and interactions, either with, you know, reference magic. I love magic by the way. Mills, we gotta play. We should play a game after this with my Hulk deck, bro. I I I was gonna stream, but like I yeah, I've been streaming a lot less. But yeah, impossible challenge, like a task for a devs to try and make a game that's going to
KirkCast (01:16:34.94)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:16:49.414)
I dumbed down, actually. I'm a hundred percent dumb.
CaptainCoach (01:17:01.666)
I wouldn't even say stand the test of time, even just last a year or a couple of months. I mean, you have somebody releasing a guide showing some broken thing or some clip where now all of a sudden even just the community perception changes and the game is now interfaced in a way that you didn't expect. I I this is why like my my number one goal is to to get a game dev on because I feel like their job in today's climate is it's impossible. Also, I think Netties is still doing a terrible job either way.
KirkCast (01:17:26.471)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:17:29.14)
It's impossible, but
KirkCast (01:17:29.607)
CaptainCoach (01:17:30.988)
They're still doing so bad. But I I I see, you know, I've been kind of forgiving with them just because I know how hard it is. I mean, you mention R Rivals catering like a bit too much to console and and how like other other games are are a shell of the PC version. I think Rivals is becoming a shell of the console versions, to be honest, if you really want to go that way.
Coach Mills (01:17:54.419)
They they're they're well, I mean the game is only optimized for console. Like if you don't have a supercomputer, you can't play the game on PC.
KirkCast (01:17:59.753)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:18:00.502)
It's just math, dude. They make more money. Like they have more players. Like that's
Coach Mills (01:18:02.74)
Like like 'cause I so I actually just reacted. Yeah. I mean Light just Light just did a video on his channel where he's talking about the state of rivals and he looked super sad throughout the video. I was like, damn, Light like this is fucked up. But but the thing about Light is he's been a melee player in a sea of like hit scan being super dominant. It's like in on console that's just not the case. Like like if he was a console player, the game would probably have felt very balanced to him for the entire life cycle of the game. But
KirkCast (01:18:04.763)
It's business, is it yeah?
CaptainCoach (01:18:06.552)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:18:13.272)
Poor poor light.
Coach Mills (01:18:29.764)
He's playing on the platform that I don't really think Netties really cares about because it's it's not the majority. Consul's the majority. Console console's the priority. I I I think it actually is.
CaptainCoach (01:18:38.806)
And and it's gonna i the more they move towards that direction, the more they're going to keep moving towards that direction. It's r it's really sad to see from my point of
KirkCast (01:18:44.134)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:18:45.192)
Well, I mean, hey, j G GTA's they're they're prioritizing console too. They're not releasing it for PC on launch. We have to fucking wait six months. Well that's that's that's the thing is all these companies, they prioritize they prioritize the b well, they prioritize the bag, right? That's just what they do. They just prioritize the bag. with the ex yeah.
KirkCast (01:18:50.841)
They they they did that for G G A five too. They did that for G five, but And I'm a bite on the console and I'ma buy it on PC too, so so Yeah.
Unfortunately every game is like that. At the end of the day they're a business, you know?
CaptainCoach (01:19:06.774)
Well, you also consider, you know, I I I love how talking about this because it's something that I interact with every day. We talk about how content creation has ruined gaming. I also think in a way developers now try to balance around the idea that people are going to have there's gonna be so many eyes on things and they will actually balance around content creation. And I I think that's something a lot of people don't talk about. Like you want to talk about rivals, for instance, you know, the they're they've kind of seen the
KirkCast (01:19:26.813)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:19:34.882)
The writing on the wall, like w rather reading the temperature in the room. And I I feel like I mean, if that dyno change was any indication, I mean, you know, like
KirkCast (01:19:42.647)
Dino's about to get put in the grave. He's about to be prehistoric in the past. Yeah, I mean after they've seen the twenty five more HP, no. No, expect like four or five bullet points on his buttons give me a big block.
CaptainCoach (01:19:45.09)
Think so?
Coach Mills (01:19:47.297)
Are you sure they're not gonna shred a little bit of weight again and it's gonna be twenty five more?
Your pre your prehistoric pal is going a little bit too fast. They reduce speed by five percent, you know, just like yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:19:59.173)
Jesus.
KirkCast (01:20:01.991)
Okay, but do you okay, do you think that they d did that as a rage bait? Like do you think that they don't think like, let's let's put this out, you know, look how funny this would be if somebody makes it up, you know?
Coach Mills (01:20:06.452)
That no no they a hundred percent did it. That makes it worse. It actually it actually makes it worse that they didn't do it as a rage be. Like they it actually makes it worse. Like like imagine getting you know when you get rage by someone and they have no fucking idea why you're mad? Like you're pissed off and they just like what what bro? What? And then you're like it's like it's so bad, bro.
CaptainCoach (01:20:07.095)
No.
CaptainCoach (01:20:16.332)
Yeah. It it is worse.
KirkCast (01:20:24.613)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:20:29.314)
Yeah, that's like that's like asking someone that's like asking someone for like some cash. Like can I hey can I can I borrow like twenty bucks, just I'll pay you back? And you just throw a dollar. It's like fuck you. Like what it like what are doing? Like that is it's it's like that's clearly like a malicious action you just did. You know, it's just like what it what like here I hope it helps. It's like, no, just just like fuck you. Like that that's what they're doing. And and I think you know, that's that's what it is. That's what it is. I mean it they it it it
Coach Mills (01:20:42.115)
Hehehehehe.
KirkCast (01:20:46.245)
Right, right.
Coach Mills (01:20:46.277)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:20:51.284)
Yeah, it it's almost like putting a penny in the tip jar. Like like walking all the way up from your table. You know, you're up from your table, you walk all the way over and you you you dig into your purse, you dig into your purse
KirkCast (01:20:51.932)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:21:02.518)
What?
CaptainCoach (01:21:06.87)
Yeah. And you're real shitty about it, you know.
KirkCast (01:21:09.425)
Ro sit eating smile on your face. You're welcome.
CaptainCoach (01:21:12.536)
Ha ha
Coach Mills (01:21:12.628)
no no it it no it's like it's like you're you're giddy because you're like, look, don't spend it all in one place, you know. That's kinda how so kind of pivoting a little bit, because we're gonna talk about a lot of stuff this pod. yeah, yeah, yeah, go for Yeah, yeah.
KirkCast (01:21:18.973)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (01:21:19.214)
Jesus, fuck you, fuck bro.
KirkCast (01:21:22.707)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:21:30.589)
Wait, I wanna answer his other question. does content creation what was it? Content creation values around. No, Did it did content creation make gaming worse for me? it's just a little different. I'm like in a different phase of life than where I first started streaming as to pair like where I am now. Like I'm married with a kid with a house, like I've got like responsibilities. It's like
CaptainCoach (01:21:36.514)
Developers balance around the the games?
Coach Mills (01:21:36.867)
make make it work no, did it make it worse for you? Did
Coach Mills (01:21:50.366)
Sheesh Yeah, imagine not being married with a kid in the house.
KirkCast (01:21:55.296)
I mean all I would do would be streaming. Like I'd be at this desk all day every day. But like I wouldn't shade that for like the world, but
Coach Mills (01:21:58.901)
And I'm just kidding. Yeah, me. That's it. No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.
CaptainCoach (01:22:01.73)
Mill's your wife got any friends? You wanna
KirkCast (01:22:03.753)
but like like I've always like gamed. Like after school, like I came home, I played video games all day with my friends that were I was at school with or my dad, you know, waking me up at six AM, you gotta go pick up sticks outside on Saturday mornings. Like that's how like my life was. Like so like I've yeah, you know, and games always been like my passion. So like, you know, I worked like a miserable sales job that I did really well at and like it didn't fulfill like
Like I wasn't happy doing it. Like the fact that I can like get on stream every day, I can put food on the table and I can game, like I I can't not be like high energy, like happy, excited. Like I don't understand how people like game all day Well, I can't understand how people like like like especially like people who are like millionaires and stuff or like miserable on stream. Like I get that some people that that is their personality and that's what they like cultivate and farm and that's what people recognize them for.
CaptainCoach (01:22:47.736)
Stop it high and that's me.
Coach Mills (01:22:49.766)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:22:57.094)
Yeah, fuck those guys.
KirkCast (01:23:03.316)
But like me personally, like I like if I get a thrower in a game, like, yeah, my mental's gonna be a little shot for a couple minutes, but like, hey, I'm streaming, I'm gaming, like let's like, you know, let's flip this around, let's make it the fun time, you know? But content creation, like an another aspect outside of like gaming itself, like I wanna play like games to make content so that like I get like likes and like I wanna like it's like competitive for myself and like ambitious if you wanna say like like when Mecha Chameleon K was coming out.
Coach Mills (01:23:15.828)
And that
KirkCast (01:23:33.287)
Like two weeks before I like telling my wife, I was like, I've gotta be the first one to post like one of the biggest like TikToks ever like up for the game. And I was like like I posted that TikTok, it got like three hundred thousand likes in the end of it all. Like like I was like so excited to play it and like the outside of like it's work. You know what I'm saying? Like and outside of it's just gaming, like like there was like another aspect of like the hunt or like the pursuit of like, you know
What's gonna make give me dopamine? it's gonna like going viral or like posting like a really good TikTok of good quality. like I like it's like like do I wanna play my rivals every day, all day every day? No, but like I'm gonna do it for like a you know, like I'm gonna put a a good attitude into it, even though like sometimes like I don't wanna play it. You know what I'm saying? Like it's like hand in hand, like we're like sometimes it's work, but sometimes it's play, but most of the time it's like play and but like also another aspect of like is like ambition and like
CaptainCoach (01:24:04.792)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:24:20.818)
That it's it's it's funny.
CaptainCoach (01:24:21.347)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:24:28.925)
wanting to get something that goes crazy, not even for like money or anything, like for like a challenge to myself rather, you know?
Coach Mills (01:24:35.27)
It's so like you you, me and
KirkCast (01:24:37.693)
Content creation's been a net positive though, overall, to answer the f the full question.
Coach Mills (01:24:40.956)
Okay, gotcha. well what was gonna say is like you, me and Captain Coach have all worked r like real people jobs. There's a lot of these consecrators that never really worked like a real person job and like there's a lot of real world jobs that fucking suck, bro. Like like like like it's like it's like it's hard not to be grateful, you know, every single day. Like it's it's hard. Like I don't get I mean I can I can I get pissed off, everyone gets pissed off, but it's like big picture. We're very lucky.
CaptainCoach (01:24:51.565)
Two.
KirkCast (01:24:54.986)
no doubt. No doubt.
CaptainCoach (01:24:55.041)
I've I've worked so many shitty jobs, bro.
KirkCast (01:25:00.647)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:25:03.196)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:25:11.146)
I ain't lucky. I earned my shit, bro. I have been grinding my ass off for fifteen years. I earned when people say content creation is luck, I'm like, no. Maybe you got lucky. It is a grind, bro. You have to sacrifice so much. And there's so much thought that goes into it and in like
Coach Mills (01:25:18.814)
But it but well, I mean, but it's but there's I mean No, I agree. But it's it's still I don't know, how do I put lucky it's lucky we're born in a in a generation that has technology, has internet. You know, like the job we we're doing right now didn't exist fucking twenty years ago. I mean it did it really didn't. and then twenty years from now, AI's gonna be doing this job. This is gonna like who knows? you know, you know,
CaptainCoach (01:25:31.884)
Yeah, I got you.
KirkCast (01:25:42.481)
Mm, I don't know.
CaptainCoach (01:25:42.774)
Mm-hmm. A AI Coach Mills, buy more skins.
Coach Mills (01:25:46.751)
Like we're kind of I I I think we're in like the the you know, I I'm I I'm actually afraid of like fucking AI influences. We'll talk a probably but a little bit about that later. I th I'm afraid of it, dude. I'm afraid of it 'cause I look at if you've ever been on Facebook, there's old people getting fooled by every day. Every day and they're not even good and they're getting fooled. They're gonna get fucking so fool. But anyways.
KirkCast (01:26:01.637)
yeah.
These people didn't have you know, I mean, like my dad didn't have my dad's seventy four, he didn't have A C growing up, bro. Like we're talking about a different animal, you know.
Coach Mills (01:26:08.412)
Yeah Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Well well but but
CaptainCoach (01:26:13.89)
I I think AI is only going to be a benefit to gaming.
Coach Mills (01:26:16.948)
So so that that's kind of what I wanted to talk about. I wanted to tell there's two things about AI, because like I think online a lot of the general sentiment is pretty negative, at least originally, but there's two things that have kinda changed a lot of people's mind on it, and I'm curious what y'all have to say. So the first thing is, have y'all seen the new AI games that are seeing play? So it's what it is is it's older games that they AI is like decoding them and recoding them in the same language. So they put like Minecraft into Skyrim. Or like you know, like they're fusing these games.
CaptainCoach (01:26:33.315)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:26:43.827)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:26:47.116)
it's really cool to look at, but it's a little horrifying to be able to like complete Right. Like, cause like, you know, what's to stop someone from just being like, okay, hey, we're just gonna rebuild Marvel Rivals. Like, it's ours now, and we're gonna change it. You know, like like I think that they gonna be able to make like a DC version of Marvel Rivals, like just using that system. But like it it's not like
KirkCast (01:26:52.519)
It's like some black mirror backroom shit almost. Like it's like unsettling.
KirkCast (01:27:09.971)
I would play the hell out of it.
Coach Mills (01:27:13.862)
I feel like there's a lot of fear as far as like copyright and like stealing people's games and like s like games not existing or maybe games evolving.
KirkCast (01:27:17.201)
I feel like
CaptainCoach (01:27:20.204)
Yeah, you know the laws y you'll be a
KirkCast (01:27:21.83)
It it's even it's even worse than you think. Have you not seen okay, I can I can understand where you're some talking about for like the meshing of the games. Have you not seen the stuff that they're doing with Pokemon stuff right now? Like they got no, not Pow World, no. Like they're getting AI to code games in a specific way. Like they've got the it is a browser. It's on the browser. You don't have to download it or anything. It's Pokemon football. You draft Pokemon, they have abilities. They there's there's Pokemon tower defense games that they're making.
Coach Mills (01:27:31.068)
No, what's going on?
CaptainCoach (01:27:31.214)
You're talking Power World?
CaptainCoach (01:27:45.666)
Have seen that Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:27:47.154)
I mean I would play the fuck out of that, I'm not gonna lie. Like that sounds that sounds fun as hell.
KirkCast (01:27:51.453)
There's ones where you're battling in an arena. Like we're not that far off from like people being able to do that with like Pokemon Hero Shooter, you know? Three years ago we had the the Will Smith spaghetti video, bruh. The first AI video or whatever. Now look at it, bro, like
Coach Mills (01:28:04.116)
Is is that is in ten in ten years is this gonna be like people have like a screen where it's just a chat box and you just just describe you just type in and describe I wanna play a shooter that's based on Sonic characters from third person and you just like enter it in and then like that's hey chat, we're playing this today. We're playing Sonic three D with guns, like and then like
CaptainCoach (01:28:05.185)
right, right.
KirkCast (01:28:25.084)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:28:25.658)
Every day it's just like whatever you can just like you play it and it's like, invite Link. Okay, I'm gonna invite Kurt Cast and Captain Coach. We're all gonna play the same fucking game online. And it's just like something that we just literally just made up and it's just like built. Like it's a little I don't know. It's a little
KirkCast (01:28:31.034)
yeah.
KirkCast (01:28:35.677)
Bro, they're gonna
CaptainCoach (01:28:38.188)
Okay, I I that that will be yeah, that will be possible by the way, but I still think the best games are going to be the one that have a human element, like a human touch, kind of overseen it. And I think f I I think AI will
Coach Mills (01:28:47.932)
I mean of cour hopefully. I would I would hope so. I mean
KirkCast (01:28:50.651)
Unless you just come with a good idea, a fun ass idea, you know?
CaptainCoach (01:28:53.708)
Well, yeah, there there will always be those indie games that just are made by one guy in a room just dis yeah, like doing what you said, just kind of describing it right. like have you guys seen Hood War Warfare? Or that shit's funny as fuck. Well, Hood Warfare too. Sorry, let me get it right. It's the sequel to Hood Warfare. And yeah, it's it's why I looked at it, it's like old school Call of Duty style combat. And it's like there is definitely a market for that. That, you know, not a lot of companies are really seen as like something feasible. So I think in a lot of ways AI is going to
KirkCast (01:29:03.515)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen that, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:29:04.242)
I did see that I did see that my god.
CaptainCoach (01:29:22.904)
fill in the gaps that a lot of companies don't see the financial incentive to go for. And I think that's really good because it's gonna keep the competition high.
KirkCast (01:29:26.374)
Right.
Coach Mills (01:29:29.68)
It it's it's just it's worrying if you ever get to the point I think o I mean, of course like the job loss is scary, but like the though it's worrying when things get hum homogenized. Where it's like it feels like the new games that come out are being built with large amounts of AI input and they're very s they're using a lot of similarities to then that the last generation and the generation after. And then and then we can probably get to movies, they're probably gonna be done the same fucking way and not too long in the futures.
CaptainCoach (01:29:54.125)
Redo all the Star Wars movies. Like I just please. I need a new I need a new story.
Coach Mills (01:29:58.793)
Well like th that's another thing, like i fifty years, a hundred years, could you just like type in a prompt of a show and then it's like, here's twenty four episodes, ten seasons of whatever the fuck you can imagine or or or here's books. Read these books, turn them into a movie. I d I I i I feel like it's Pandora's box. It d it does freak me out. Maybe I'm being overly like s you know, freaked out about that kind of shit, but like I it does scare me a little bit.
KirkCast (01:30:08.493)
no doubt.
KirkCast (01:30:13.299)
The movie, yeah, I guarantee you that's how they're gonna do it.
KirkCast (01:30:25.747)
There's no there's just really no telling, you know what I'm saying? I mean w you know think about in like fifteen years where we'll be and then like trying to show somebody a clip of club penguin or something, like a a kid that th those days. They're like, What were you playing? This is
CaptainCoach (01:30:25.814)
It's an interesting thought.
Coach Mills (01:30:27.89)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:30:34.196)
You don't have to show them a clip. You can just you can just describe the AI, Cla Penguin, and it will build it.
CaptainCoach (01:30:35.255)
I just
KirkCast (01:30:41.005)
type it in, hey make club penguin for me. Boom. And you're like, hey Jimmy play this. He's like, I wanna play this, it's black and white TV, you know? Yeah?
Coach Mills (01:30:43.412)
Yeah, and it'll it will design it and it's like it's like make make it make it playable on the Android, you know. Like like I'm I'm serious like that but
CaptainCoach (01:30:51.256)
I mean, don't you think that's a big reason why s streaming has done nothing but grow? Is the people are searching for that real that they wanna something okay, this is actually happening. That's why the all the IRL content creators I mean, they're bigger than ever. Like we saw whatever that Kai, Kai Sonat, Speed, like all these guys are just massive and it's cause people a lot of them are just on their phones and tablets and computers all day and they wanna see what the real real world is like, bro. So I I think there's always gonna be a demand for that. There's a
Coach Mills (01:31:16.786)
Real world is right.
I mean it it is I'm just worried that there's a lot of people behind the scenes that are gonna get completely cut out during this process, like pretty much across the board. Like it like if you're yeah, sorry. Well I was just saying like if you're on camera and you're an in like your your face is being shown, like you're safe for now. But like if you're like any of the jobs that do things behind the scenes, you're kind of you're probably sweating, you're probably scared.
KirkCast (01:31:26.954)
I think it's gonna get to I think it's gonna get to the point my bad, go ahead, no go no, you go ahead, my bad.
KirkCast (01:31:44.303)
no doubt. no doubt. I mean how many times do you think in the next like ten years are or like, you know, some Joe Joe Schmoe in his room, he's got a really IG good idea for a video game. I'm just gonna put it in a AI, it'll do it for me, compared to like triple A video games or like all this entire th fleshed out team and they can't make a game as creative. You know what I'm saying? And like they see, you know, like is is big box
Coach Mills (01:32:04.308)
That's that's
KirkCast (01:32:07.901)
video games, like is it is it really sustainable for the next ten years if like I could just go into a a prompt with a really good idea and make a video game? You know what I'm saying? And then like like Mecha Chameleon. You know, like how many how many much money did Mecha Chameleon make? And that's like that looks like an AI generated game. You know what I'm saying? Compared to like, you know
Coach Mills (01:32:16.328)
That's fair. Maybe the best idea is raw yeah, I guess that's
CaptainCoach (01:32:25.762)
That that is what bothers me is that it it at the end of the day it it pretty much is just stealing from a bunch of different people. I mean, that's because it's it's all just reinforcement learning and and I I really that's what bothers me about it is that people will lose jobs. But I mean there's been talks, I mean I don't want to get too political, but like of of like a U UBI universal bake basical basic income and I w while I think that sounds good on paper, I knowing just
KirkCast (01:32:34.437)
Yeah. Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:32:45.511)
U B I
Which is good on paper.
CaptainCoach (01:32:51.854)
People, I don't think that'll ever realistically happen. I think people will always be forced to work in some way or short shape or form. This is like you know, some super
Coach Mills (01:32:58.684)
I don't I don't I mean it's it's kinda so political talk that's futuristic political talk is cool to me. Like when you talk about like stuff that's like in like Dune and shit like that. to me, UBI comes goes hand in hand with AI long term. It has to. Like it just has to. You can't eliminate like if you if you create something that eliminates jobs from so many people, the combination of AI plus robotics and it just like you don't need fucking truck drivers, and you don't need cooks, and you don't need
CaptainCoach (01:33:12.396)
Yeah, no, I agree.
Coach Mills (01:33:25.374)
Graphic designers and don't need filmmakers and you don't need like all these things. Like you yeah, you you just can't let people starve. Like yeah, you go find other work. yeah, we need you to fucking all of y'all have to be plumbers. Like that just doesn't it just doesn't work. Like it just long term it just doesn't work. but like where's the gap? Where's the jump though? Like the the jump between the jobs be the jobs being gone are here. When is how how many years, how many decades, how many centuries until UBI is implemented? From the jobs being gone to the UBI being implemented? Probably hundreds.
KirkCast (01:33:38.675)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:33:40.756)
I mean people peop people dive peop
CaptainCoach (01:33:50.881)
I dude.
Pe people people die from starving every day though. I I don't see why like that is not out of the realm of possibility. I mean it it may not happen in in the c cinematic way that a lot of people predict where everybody's just on the like it might be some kind of like dystopian like like cyberpunk esque where it's like you're kind of controlled and your your movements and behavior are are heavily monitored and y you aren't able to have the the same freedoms you did because there's there's scarcity with
Coach Mills (01:33:59.57)
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:34:06.238)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:34:23.65)
whatever the resources that it's kinda now monitor. Like I I think it could it could be very dystopian real quick. That's that's the thing that worries me.
Coach Mills (01:34:26.588)
Are you are you familiar are you familiar with the concept of UBI, Kirk, or the AI and UBI?
KirkCast (01:34:33.095)
Yes. Univer universal basic income. Basically if a large majority of people lose their jobs, you know, how are they gonna have money and food and on put on the table and stuff?
Coach Mills (01:34:36.068)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and you're like and the idea is like like with through robotics and AI, like things are being generated in surplus. Like there's tons of food being made and tons of resources being made, but like they're being made without people yeah, you don't need people to run these systems. They're just being run. Right, right. I'm I know I've talked about this before. I cannot wait till lab grown me. I don't know. I know this is really out of left field, but I I want it. You y you you you heard about it? No y y
KirkCast (01:34:51.977)
Through automation.
CaptainCoach (01:34:54.858)
I eat AI food.
KirkCast (01:34:57.257)
I'm not eating AI food. That's not me, bro. I'm not eating bugs.
CaptainCoach (01:35:05.336)
James's
KirkCast (01:35:06.909)
No. Mm what? No.
CaptainCoach (01:35:08.056)
Coach Mills gonna be the first cyborg.
Coach Mills (01:35:09.872)
No, you like I I don't know if you know about the concept, but it's like they you can grow just the meat of an animal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like you're good. I mean well so we'd rather just grow the entire animal and then kill it? I mean it's the same thing. Okay I mean I text it's no, no, no, I did I did the same. I did the same but here this is the vision I have. A five Wagyu on demand for cheap.
KirkCast (01:35:16.848)
No, I'm good on that. You can have your you can have your your synthetic meat. Yes. But I'm different. I'm I'm down south I've I'm born in the south. I you know, at a young age I killed a deer and skinned it, you know. I'm a little different, you know. And that shit tastes great.
CaptainCoach (01:35:18.603)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:35:31.862)
Mm.
KirkCast (01:35:37.989)
Y you're gonna have a meat printer, bruh. I don't want no meat printer, my guy. You are it Ug You're the guy from The Matrix, it's eaten the steak. He's like, Yeah, exactly.
Coach Mills (01:35:39.716)
Yeah, that's it that's what I'm talking about. I'm serious. I'm serious. but
CaptainCoach (01:35:42.68)
Co Coach Mills gonna be addicted to soylent green, bro. Okay, Cypher
Coach Mills (01:35:49.629)
I mean i I mean I I mean lab the the technology for lab grown meat is always p already possible. Like people already eat like like they eat eggs that are not real. Like they not they're not made by I mean they're real but it's
KirkCast (01:35:58.695)
Yeah, yeah. I mean what you know, to what to a degree, what's the difference between most of the other food on the on the shelves, you know? It's all it's all processed, you know. What's the di you know?
Coach Mills (01:36:05.968)
I mean it it's all it's all pro yeah, yeah yeah. but here's the other thing I want to talk about AI. So so like there's a there's a lot of very anti AI people out there. and I I even have my hesitations about it. But not even the people that are the most anti AI, could could see themselves cheering for AI when AI has gone to war with Adobe. I don't know if you know anything about Adobe, Adobe Photoshop, Adobe After Effects,
KirkCast (01:36:28.722)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:36:33.006)
you know, AI has basically a small group using AI to kind of help reverse code and recode complete alternatives to Photoshop, Adobe Premiere, and it's basically like nearly a one to one of these very expensive programs that basically everyone uses. And the reason everyone's cheering is because Od Adobe is I mean they're a fucking they're fucking sc they're fucking scumbags. I mean they they they're they really are, but
KirkCast (01:36:46.257)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:36:54.311)
Paid. Paid for.
CaptainCoach (01:36:56.642)
Okay. Adobe so anyone who doesn't know watching, this is not going to be my argument for what I'm about to say, but Adobe is if you use the the software package that they provide, it's incredibly expensive. They require a monthly sub. It's like twenty two dollars a month. Like the the software itself costs hundreds of dollars. Now I'm not saying that's a justification to steal, but the next thing I'm about to tell you is recently I want to say
Roughly two years ago. I don't know the exact timeline, but Adobe started taking the videos that people made and cross-referencing them with YouTube videos, I believe. I I I don't know if this second part's true, but that I believe this is what they did. They basically they put their your videos that you made into AI and then they I think they actually like found them through algorithms on YouTube to find which videos were successful. They're ba they're basically stealing your content.
For their own AI technology. So now that the same thing is happening to them, I think a lot of people are pretty happy because I stopped using Adobe. I stopped using it. So
Coach Mills (01:38:03.25)
Well th this is 'cause I use Adobe consistently for Photoshop. I mean, I use Photoshop. But I I mean my my renewal is coming up, so we'll see if I keep using it. But it's funny because Adobe was one of the first major companies to implement AI. They have AI in their systems. You can use it to like replace backgrounds and cut out things and they they have AI. But this is exactly what I'm talking about with Prendor's box. Like they opened up the use of AI mainstream and kind of made it, you know, normalized. And now AI is coming back to fucking
Kick their ass, basically. It's like it's like you opened up Pandora's box and now you're and then a lot of people are saying, this is how we get legislation, is like all of a sudden when when these companies like like any imagine any app you create, any game you create, any app you create, it's like you don't really own it because someone else can just like let's say you made a Right, right, they just jip it for like you come up with like you're talking about you come up with the good idea and they just come in and they just yoink, you know, the good idea.
KirkCast (01:38:37.575)
Right.
KirkCast (01:38:51.049)
They can just dip it from you with AI, yeah.
KirkCast (01:38:58.459)
Right. It is nice being able to type in, you know, like like tech wise, like doing stuff with OBS and stuff, like it I will say, like, it is nice going to chat GBT saying, How do I do this? Like, how do I make this a scene or how do I make this a br like a a browser source? Like, there's good application to it. my I got a family member that's in cybersecurity and he's like
CaptainCoach (01:38:58.93)
Coach Mills (01:39:10.696)
Hundred percent.
KirkCast (01:39:21.48)
saying like it's a great tool to have, but it is like he's actively eliminating people's jobs with a cloud, you know, description. Like he said like one guy at his work was dragging his feet with some area. He made like a cloud or clawed you know input for it and that guy ended up losing a job, you know, like 'cause that clawed one works so well. And he he's just like, you know, that's just what happens, you know. I'm a little like I'm like, all right, well that poor guy lost his job. But like I feel like there's like
Coach Mills (01:39:38.996)
shit.
KirkCast (01:39:49.245)
There's there's good things to be able to use it for that like like who do I contact to learn that for OBS? You know what I'm saying? Like if it's not on YouTube or it's something like super niche, like it I've kinda like reliant on the information that it's gonna give me, you know? But I don't like the aspect, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:39:57.576)
And like it does
Coach Mills (01:40:03.826)
It also gives it like civilians some legal information too. I think like the legal aspect of it.
KirkCast (01:40:08.851)
There's a lot of things like like okay, like th there's a there's a AI program called Bolden that you can use for like your money management and I don't use it but I know of it. money management, investment ad advice and stuff like that that a lot of people use. Like people who aren't like financially literate very well, like like that's like like a good tool for them that like you know, I d I you know, don't wanna hire a CPA or or somebody that manages money and you also have to trust that they're gonna do a good job, you know, there's risk
Coach Mills (01:40:37.044)
Yeah, but the g the the guy that lost his job to AI probably needs that app now because he can't afford his fucking rent.
KirkCast (01:40:39.793)
Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Exactly, exactly. But like there's a lot of people that make a lot of money that aren't fiscally, you know, responsible that probably have to rely on like people to use it and like maybe like, you know, some I jipped them over in the past, you know, business money money manager or something like that. And like they go to AI and it's a lot more simple. I think that there's like good applications for it, but there's like malicious applications for it like stealing. Like like like what's stopping me from making like you know, in ten years like
Call of Duty, but make every one of them like busty women or something, you know what I'm saying? And it'll sell like hotcakes, you know what I'm saying? It's gonna get to that point.
Coach Mills (01:41:13.714)
It's gonna it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna
CaptainCoach (01:41:14.562)
Yeah, your your your time and your data now are are going is is currency, right? And I actually found the Adobe thing 'cause I I didn't want to just be speaking out of my ass. So they had a content analysis analysis little option that you could check on and off for under privacy and personal data. And this was a few years ago. They said Adobe may analyze your content using techniques such as machine learning, like for pattern recognition, to develop and improve our products and services. And I actually searched and it's
KirkCast (01:41:39.145)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (01:41:44.342)
If you just search like the the Google AI search engine, it says that Adobe didn't do this. So there I think there's a lot of information wars going on, even just with what people how people perceive your product and your content. And that is to me is what's dangerous is the fact that AI is not a reliable source a lot of the time because they're taking from other sources and and and you have to be really, really careful about
KirkCast (01:41:56.072)
Mm-hmm.
CaptainCoach (01:42:06.902)
not just when it comes to like the games you play, but what games you choose to give your information for because in the long run, and this is something I I accuse rivals of doing, can it can be used against you. It can be used against you. And and
KirkCast (01:42:18.033)
Mm-hmm. I mean, what's stopping like a a like a corporate conglomerate from, you know, gaining all the data of everybody and then like making it a subscription service to be able to view it? And just having AI manage it and everything, like, you know, you wanna see Coach Mills' search history, pay fifty bucks a month, you know, you know, we you've signed away your data. You know what I'm saying? You've signed away terms and conditions, all your data's gone, you know, you know, XYZ owns your data, you know, they can post it.
CaptainCoach (01:42:36.012)
I'll pay that.
Coach Mills (01:42:36.136)
You don't wanna see you know you don't wanna see my search history.
CaptainCoach (01:42:41.831)
Ha.
Coach Mills (01:42:42.546)
It's i i i it's literally it's literally Kurt Cast OnlyFans, like like three times. kind of loose loosely related. I want those so Captain Coach talks a lot about EOMM. I'm bringing it up this time, but he talks a lot about like stuff like that in the systems. There there was a there was a an interesting TikTok slash story slash
KirkCast (01:42:46.887)
Th them feed picks sell like hotcakes, let me tell you.
CaptainCoach (01:42:47.01)
Ha ha.
CaptainCoach (01:42:50.658)
Jesus Christ.
KirkCast (01:42:52.433)
It's scary to think about.
CaptainCoach (01:43:01.102)
Freaky Friday.
Coach Mills (01:43:08.744)
video analysis. It's only it's only like less than a minute long. I wanted to show both of y'all it. I want to hear your thoughts. It's about the highest grossing mobile game. They do something very unique in this mobile game. So like I'm gonna share this. I want to see if y'all could see this. because I'm very, very curious what your thoughts are on this, both of y'all. So here, it's this right here. Can y'all see this?
Coach Mills (01:43:32.308)
Does it is it showing? I'm trolling. okay, this. Boom. Can y'all see this? Can y'all hear this? Can you hear that? Okay, I'm gonna play this for y'all real quick. I wanna hear your thoughts about it.
KirkCast (01:43:38.877)
Yes.
CaptainCoach (01:44:51.683)
I I hate this. I hate it so much. This is something I accuse rivals of doing. They do this. And and and people are they're not trying to make games to be good games anymore. And and it's
Coach Mills (01:44:52.628)
I knew you were gonna hate it, that's why
KirkCast (01:44:53.154)
Yeah, it's
KirkCast (01:45:02.185)
They're trying to get you to make a game to where you're gonna sit there and you're gonna play it. As long
CaptainCoach (01:45:07.0)
So so let me get this yeah, like the so the ads is is how the game's monetized. So they have a shop as well. Do we know that?
Coach Mills (01:45:12.052)
So I don't think it's a sh so it's like when you die in the game, you can w you can you can watch the ad to revive yourself.
CaptainCoach (01:45:15.136)
Ads are punishment for for d dying.
KirkCast (01:45:19.261)
there's probably some kind of energy aspect, like you can only play like this, you know, level, level, level, and then you're out of energy watching ad refreshes your energy.
CaptainCoach (01:45:19.629)
Interesting.
Coach Mills (01:45:26.174)
But it's crazy that it it alters the skill difficulty of the game in order to like
KirkCast (01:45:31.971)
So do you think that Marvel Rivals does that like are you saying like to the point where like, you know, your shots aren't doing as much damage really or?
Coach Mills (01:45:36.392)
Well that's not doing it like Well no Cap what Captain Coach is well Captain Coach sometimes has argued. I'm not gonna ar say it for you, but you said like that the lot the difficulty of the lobby can be changed by it by certain factors. As far as like you as a player, how engaged you are based on your wins and your losses and like, you know, maybe they try to get a read on you as a player. What what will engage you the longest? What will what what what kind of los how what has to happen to you for you to get off the game?
CaptainCoach (01:45:49.45)
easily.
KirkCast (01:46:01.065)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:46:04.946)
Are you more likely to get off on a win? Are you more likely to get off on a loss? Are you more likely to get off on three losses or ten losses? That's what he's arguing. I'm not saying that that's necessarily true. I don't really believe it is. But I but I can it is interesting that this is I mean, this is the highest grossing game. Making that money. Remember we talked it we talked about it earlier. G whether it's GTA or rivals or whatever, where what are they what are they about? They're about that green. That's what they're about. game's about that green.
KirkCast (01:46:05.01)
Right.
KirkCast (01:46:12.635)
No, I could definitely see that being a a thing.
KirkCast (01:46:18.525)
Good business model. Good business model. Yep. It's all that matters.
KirkCast (01:46:28.893)
Every game.
CaptainCoach (01:46:30.762)
I it's it's so sad to see because I I like to reference Old Blizzard. I think they were a company, a a team that really truly valued just making the best possible games. And while I d again, I I this is something I'm really passionate about. So I I do actually follow a lot of content creators who t talk about game development stuff. It's it's something that I I wish I would have probably gone into if I were, you know, were to do college again. But I think yeah, more and more now
The sentiment is that it there's no point in making a game unless it becomes successful. And I I think it's becoming less and less common for games that are there to truly like serve the player in in in a way that is is really I don't to sound corny like what gaming is all about. Like yeah, I you know, the engagement I talk about in rivals has caused this trickle up in shidification of the entire player base.
Because what you're doing is when you have systems like this, you're going to drive away the pe right, you're you're gonna drive away the people who actually care about the ranked competitive integrity. Because I think a lot of people can see through this. When you you can kind of detect if you play games and Kirk, maybe correct me if I'm wrong. The more you play a game, you can kind of sense where the game's goals lie. And and I don't think like for me personally, I don't think Rivals goal with their matchmaking is ranked competitive integrity.
Coach Mills (01:47:32.51)
Chrono coins. Yeah, it's yeah. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:47:57.209)
Cause to me it would just be completely random, which I d I don't think it is. I I or I I think it would be completely random or let you choose your teammates more. So to me, having a system where you have a big pool of players to draw from, each with their own like place in the ranked ladder, you know, there's like a trajectory to that. Like, this person's probably not gonna get much higher rank, they're tapped out here.
KirkCast (01:48:01.106)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:48:19.33)
That's the person we're gonna put you in your in your rank up game to pull you back down because this person's gonna go down anyway. And it's just like there's a bunch of parabolas and they it there's there's algorithms and stuff that kind of figure out where these things overlap. And yeah, I I do think 100% they use engagement algorithms. And it's one of the reasons I think the game suffers. And and God, that that game, like games like that phone game, Block Blast, is it called, do not support games like that. Do not support games like that.
KirkCast (01:48:27.529)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (01:48:41.074)
Yeah, yeah. I it see like I you know, we you and I have we have we've already had a million disagreements about this cat to coach, but what we probably could both agree is that, you know, one of the things that I I think that this game can learn from deadlock is there's a much higher barrier to entry for even playing ranked. Like it feels like they use ranked in rivals just as another engagement tool to just like get the reels spinning.
KirkCast (01:48:41.41)
No.
KirkCast (01:49:05.935)
Right. It's quick play plus.
CaptainCoach (01:49:06.339)
Hundred percent.
Coach Mills (01:49:07.868)
Yeah, and and like why is there chrono to like obviously just the the entire idea of chrono tokens. They they're talking about it competitive integrity, 'cause they did a mods thing about about, you know, having the you know the people that have the mods with the visual clarity stuff. They talked about how anything that gives you any sort of competitive integrity is stuff that they don't abide by. But at the same time they have chrono tokens in their rank system that allow you to derank. It's it's it doesn't make sense. Let's like there's no disconnect like
KirkCast (01:49:30.043)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:49:30.358)
Gross. It's gross.
Coach Mills (01:49:34.958)
I don't understand how they can't see the disconnect there. And the only way that they could possibly justify that is they don't consider anything underneath the rank that you need chrono tokens as a real rank. And if that's the case, why the fuck are you fusing them? Why is it possible for those players to play with people that are actually really challenging the real system? It there needs to be a bigger divide. I think that there should be.
KirkCast (01:49:45.032)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:49:56.31)
Yeah, 'cause they want you're you're a hundred percent right. They need a bigger pool of players to draw from, so A the cues are quicker and B there's enough variance in skill to where they can kind of map out people's playtimes. I I really do think that's what it is. They they they do have
Coach Mills (01:50:10.046)
But they I mean they wouldn't have to they don't have to do this though. Deadlock doesn't do it. They don't have to. Like they absolutely don't have to if they don't want to.
CaptainCoach (01:50:16.92)
Well well, that I mean, they didn't know they had a golden goose egg in in in releasing rivals. Like they didn't know for sure the game was gonna be as big as it is, and now they're stuck with these matchmaking systems. You can't just get rid of it. That is some s like and plus this is like proprietary.
Coach Mills (01:50:30.512)
If they're gonna do it, maybe they need to do it with Doom coming out or some shit. Some big fundamental I don't know.
CaptainCoach (01:50:38.08)
I mean I I I think that would s would could potentially save the game. I'm talking like a traditional Elo system, but really like separate balancing. I again we've talked about this. I just get kinda tired. you know, I it it's to me I
Coach Mills (01:50:49.204)
It's it's okay in ten years you're gonna be able to remake rivals and then balance it however you want to with AI!
CaptainCoach (01:50:52.046)
Vibecode Ridal rivals, bro. Hulk's gonna be so his punches are gonna one shot. I kid, I kid.
KirkCast (01:50:53.425)
I want DC partners.
Coach Mills (01:50:57.3)
Light's gonna remake rivals, but all the fucking it's it's gonna be like it's gonna be like in that two V two mode all the hit scan characters gonna blow bubbles, you know, shoot bubbles. They're not actually shooting real
CaptainCoach (01:51:03.574)
Ha ha ha
CaptainCoach (01:51:10.058)
it's fucking hilarious.
KirkCast (01:51:11.454)
like I like enjoy a like there's something refreshing about clicking into a game and there's no monetization right in your face or like like deadlock like you can't buy deadlock you have to get invited by somebody else that plays there's no skins to buy there's no nothing to buy. Same with Baldur's Gate. Like there that was like for one Baldur's Gate was a phenomenal game. Like probably like a nine point four out of ten for me. But like like there's an extra layer of appreciation when you make a great game that doesn't need monetization to make it better.
CaptainCoach (01:51:18.294)
Hundred percent.
CaptainCoach (01:51:28.643)
Great game.
KirkCast (01:51:39.845)
Or make your brain work a little bit harder, like
Coach Mills (01:51:42.473)
The thing is, so I 100% agree with you. I think that deadlock gets to operate under different rules. I keep I keep seeing people pop into my chat saying, like, why doesn't other game companies do it like Deadlock does? It's like Deadlock can just kind of do whatever the fuck they want because they have valve funding. They don't it doesn't matter if they make money. Like they don't care. They're de I I don't think it is.
KirkCast (01:51:59.272)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:52:00.342)
Mm.
I think it's more than that.
KirkCast (01:52:05.299)
They definitely care if they make money. Don't get me wrong. I think that they're gonna care if they make money.
CaptainCoach (01:52:06.598)
like okay, like b
Coach Mills (01:52:06.856)
Well what but but like but like but but they're they're in like their devs are in random casual persons discords. Like they like their their devs just chatted up with streamers. They they don't have like this hyper corporate like like Rivals has to go through Netties, has to go through Disney, has like all of these chain of commands corporate shit and and Valve is just like th like he he the the way that I put it is like super I don't know if y'all played SuperVive. I really like this game called Sy Super.
KirkCast (01:52:33.235)
There's a difference between there's a difference between like getting like approval from one boss and four bosses. Is that what you're trying to say? Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:52:34.958)
Sorry.
Coach Mills (01:52:39.014)
Right, right, right, right. Well so so Supervive kinda feels kinda like Deadlock did where it was just like they were like a passion project of people that really loved their game and they put a lot of love and care into the characters, but then the game stopped making money and Supervive had to like incorporate all these weird monetization things and like do these changes that were like popular changes because they were really afraid of their game dying and the game did die and they had to shut down servers
That's just not gonna happen for deadlock. I mean, it it might die long term if they don't make a successful game, but they have such a long leash. The devs have such a long leash.
CaptainCoach (01:53:09.62)
I I I I think you would be crazy to assume that any game, 'cause it seems like that's what you're saying, is like immune to it. Like look, okay, take Baldur's Gate three, for example. That is not just something that was just made, and that's just not something that you can just that's Larry well, I'm just I'm trying to provide an example when it comes to d designing a game. That's Baldur's Gate was not a game that was took took five years to make or whatever. That's a game that took
KirkCast (01:53:10.032)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:53:26.004)
I'm not well I'm not talking about barters gate at I don't
CaptainCoach (01:53:37.166)
10, 15 years to make because Larian Studios they had the Divinity games and then they learned from that and grew and then they they and the developers probably grew with those games and eventually culminated to creating an amazing game like Baldur's Gate. That doesn't just happen. Deadlock, same way. I'm sure these people have been with Valve for for years and have have put in so much time and effort, not only into like Valve games, but other games. So I I don't think that that can just happen, bro.
Coach Mills (01:54:01.608)
Well h here's here he well here's the ex here's the example I'll give you. Like hey, you know about the game Star Citizen, right? I mean, what are they doing Star Citizen? you want to play the game early? we have skins. Play it that pays pay a thousand dollars and you get this custom skin that we'll release in the future. You'll get early access to this game and that game, this character and that character, whatever. They could do that with deadlock. They could monetize the fuck out of it before it even comes out. Milk everyone dry. Like right now they could say, here's a here's a
CaptainCoach (01:54:23.607)
I see what you're saying.
Coach Mills (01:54:29.18)
Here's a you can only buy this Rat King skin today. Or the or or this in this month if you buy it right now.
CaptainCoach (01:54:34.764)
Is is it it's not monetized? Deadlock's not monetized at all?
Coach Mills (01:54:37.331)
No.
KirkCast (01:54:37.381)
I don't I don't think there's anything you could there's no currency, there's nothing that you can buy. There's th there's no way of buying spending money on the game, I don't believe. I've ev I haven't seen it at all.
Coach Mills (01:54:47.838)
But like they could they could gate wall characters, they could get like they could do like that that's what I'm saying is like there there's zero desperation to keep the lights on. Like not is not anywhere. And I just don't feel like I've seen any game that like modern game that really it has that same temperament. I I I just I I have to believe it's because of the long valve leash. Cause they they believe in the long term vision far more than they believe in the today's vision. And
CaptainCoach (01:54:51.8)
You're right.
CaptainCoach (01:54:59.725)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:55:08.862)
Well
KirkCast (01:55:12.874)
It's like Highgarden, bro. Like like Highgarden didn't have a chance to flourish, it's it was dead on arrival. Which like I I enjoyed de I enjoyed Highgarden and like that was what it's called. Highguard. Highgarden, right? Highguard? Highguard. Yeah. Highguard was fun. It was creative. It was new. I think that there were a lot of problems with the game. I think if you gave that game like a longer alpha, longer beta, and like a longer like you know, chance to squeak out the differences, like that game might have been a little bit more popular.
Coach Mills (01:55:17.886)
Yeah yeah.
Coach Mills (01:55:24.52)
High guard, high guard, high guard, I think I think yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:55:25.698)
My guard.
KirkCast (01:55:41.203)
But like you're saying like like s like when you got Valve or like for its existence like like GTA, like they could continuously, you know, delay that game indefinitely. They'll never run out of money, you know?
Coach Mills (01:55:50.341)
Ye y you Right, you have the and maybe maybe with this it's all connected when we talk about this AI thing, I think that there's a chance that like these top studios are the only ones that survive long term and there's a lot of these smaller studios that gets eliminated or become, you know, K AI adjacent or like they're you know they have to cut 'cause like it feels like a game has maybe three months to really make it or they're dead. You know what I'm saying? Like it it feels like that. Like the how many games have come out and died? Like
CaptainCoach (01:56:02.414)
Mm.
KirkCast (01:56:02.831)
Mm.
Obsolete.
KirkCast (01:56:15.473)
Yeah. It's kinda about a dog. Yeah. It's like the oil industry. You're either the giant well right now or you find an oil and then you sell it all, you know? Like you know. There's no in between probably, you know, that's how it's gonna be. But Deadlock's fun.
Coach Mills (01:56:23.898)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:56:26.446)
Mm.
Coach Mills (01:56:30.238)
But but and but but but I I like I say this to say that like I don't think that we can expect rivals to just suddenly become like Deadlock is, but they can definitely still do a lot, right? And I think that like Captain Coach has always says, you know, you decide things with your wallet. You have a lot of power to decide directions of games, depending on what you support and what you don't support. I think that it you know, if they do good decisions, I think you support them if they do bad decisions, like play another game.
CaptainCoach (01:56:58.422)
I I I would pay a monthly sub if Neties made a commitment to balancing rivals for ranked and and reworking their rank system. I would pay money for that. I mean like I think a lot of people would. There's a demand for that, but they just don't see it that way.
Coach Mills (01:57:09.776)
I actually agree. I would I would do that too. Yeah.
KirkCast (01:57:13.97)
And you can't tell me it's not possible. You can't tell me it's not possible. Danny Deadman, I don't know if y'all are under you know, are in the deadlock, like updating with the patch notes and everything. Danny Deadlock dropped this week. The next like he was not very good on release. Like they released him and like there was like a couple problems. Next day they hotfixed him, and he's like really good now. Like, like like I don't hate the idea. I feel like Netties is also like really too cautious on dropping hot fixes and ch massive changes on characters like
Coach Mills (01:57:22.892)
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Coach Mills (01:57:28.724)
Took him a day, right, to completely fix him?
KirkCast (01:57:42.397)
Like I would rather okay, I would rather then make a patch, make a character broken and be shit, no, no, no, let's fix that next day or the next two, three days. Like getting a patch every week, like I I think that there's too many cooks in the kitchen, like too many people to answer to to be like getting approval for it. Whereas like Deadlock, a game that's got probably got like, you know, two, three bosses like at Valve were like, Hey, we would need to fix you know, we need to fix Daddy Deadman. Can we do this? So, like, yes, go ahead and do it.
CaptainCoach (01:57:43.512)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:58:08.445)
Whereas like Marvel Rivals is like they gotta answer to they probably have to answer from somebody from Marvel, Netties, there's probably four or five internal bosses that they're answering from. Like it's probably like like I said, like probably too many cooks in the kitchen and like this past update, like it looks like it looks like somebody, you know, said no to a bunch of stuff that somebody might have said yes. Y you know, d you know, let's change all this stuff and they were like, nah nahm nah nom nom nah play it safe, let's do these instead, you know.
CaptainCoach (01:58:15.469)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (01:58:29.819)
Right, right.
CaptainCoach (01:58:36.844)
I think I think talking about game monetization, there is a pretty big audience. I think it's mostly an older audience that would actually prefer to pay for a game. I think there are a lot of people who are in that boat. I'm kind of one of them. wow, subscription based. I've been playing that sub for 20 years, pretty much. maybe I'm just a bit conditioned, but there's also, you know, there wow is that his rough patches, you expect a certain level of quality when it comes with that. And if you don't, then you are now justified. Like I almost feel like because a game comes
KirkCast (01:58:45.321)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (01:59:01.564)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:59:06.998)
Like rivals is free to play. They almost use that as a shield sometimes. It's like, hey, anybody can play. Like, you know, this is
KirkCast (01:59:10.45)
Yeah.
KirkCast (01:59:14.088)
And you're voluntarily spending your money as opposed to like access to the game is subscription based and like like for example if if Netflix puts out like this weird movie or show and people disagree with it, you know, I'm gonna cancel my Netflix subscription and like Netflix is like, I wait, we can't do you know. There's like the actual fiscal like I see where you're coming from. Like I I can agree with like wanting it to be subscription based. 'Cause that
CaptainCoach (01:59:20.707)
Right.
CaptainCoach (01:59:32.342)
Right.
KirkCast (01:59:37.233)
Like no other form of monetization other than subscription based well, I mean I'm not gonna say no other, but like it that's like the most control that the people have. Like if you have something subscription based, like the masses control what you're doing with that company.
CaptainCoach (01:59:46.944)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (01:59:50.709)
like it is a direct correlator to a game's success. I mean, rivals, they're not catering to their player base, they're catering to their whales. At least a little bit. You can't say that that's not happening. I mean, just look at this 100%.
KirkCast (01:59:58.952)
Yeah.
That's why all the supports get the skins, bro. What what cloak and dagger main ain't got all the skins? Luna Snow, Invis, Jeff. What what are those you know?
Coach Mills (02:00:05.716)
I'm I'm tell I'm telling you us tank players we do not shill enough money out to get the cool shit. Like we need more we need to we need to start hey you we can we can we start like a venom alliance?
CaptainCoach (02:00:09.196)
And and and long term
KirkCast (02:00:19.079)
I've taken my stand. I'm not buying that new premium I'm not buying that new premium event with the strange and thorskin. I'm not buying that. I'm not doing it. I'm I'm doing my part.
CaptainCoach (02:00:20.002)
How are you gonna beat female beauty, bro?
CaptainCoach (02:00:27.446)
Yeah, I I just there's not there is nothing in this world that will I mean like you've heard it, sex sells, man. I mean nothing will compete with that. That is woven into our biology. Like men, women, everybody can appreciate a a good looking, you know.
KirkCast (02:00:34.963)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:00:41.544)
Man with a mustache and glasses and nice head of hair and sit in a chair. Kirk guest? OnlyFans? When we when is it coming out? Together collab. let's fuck it. Let's fuck it. I it the crazy thing is I think that
KirkCast (02:00:41.663)
Character model.
KirkCast (02:00:50.491)
Mm-hmm. That's me, baby. There's it's out there. I tell stream all the time. I've got a second stream. I tell stream all the time I've got a second stream out there playing just my feet at all times. It's out there. You just gotta go find it. You just gotta it's all you know.
CaptainCoach (02:00:52.704)
Mm-hmm. Not that it was not about me, but I realized we look exactly the same.
CaptainCoach (02:01:04.478)
Hey. Different revenue streams. That's smart, bro. That's smart.
Coach Mills (02:01:10.6)
That could actually be successful for a certain kind of streamer. Might actually be successful. I'm not gonna lie. Like
KirkCast (02:01:14.394)
Exactly. Well have you seen have you seen the it was like last year where the the chick painted like her bottom of her feet green and she was playing video games on the bottom of her feet? you know. I think s someone did that with like booty shorts too or something like that. I can't remember it.
Coach Mills (02:01:25.513)
I did not see the but I need to find it. And links? No I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I did not I did not see that. I did not see that at all. but
CaptainCoach (02:01:25.774)
wait.
Yeah, no, I've seen the one with booty shorts, I think. I've seen it.
KirkCast (02:01:33.117)
But
KirkCast (02:01:38.505)
We gotta find us we gotta find a way to monetize that same kind of kind of stream. there's I mean, people do that, you know? People do that with VR. Have you ever seen the videos of the people playing on VR? They're talking literally like on FaceTime with VR, like their character models, and the character model glitches, and it's like some overweight bald dude, he's like You ever seen those? Like those are those are kill bruh.
Coach Mills (02:01:41.487)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:01:42.102)
Yeah, I'm just gonna pretend to be a chick using AI. I'd be like, let's just don't overthink it, bro. I'll make my
Coach Mills (02:01:47.624)
No, so that this this is this is gonna ha I'm tell this
CaptainCoach (02:01:58.414)
no no
Coach Mills (02:02:02.332)
Well ha well what what's gonna happen in the future is you're gonna be able to like you're gonna be able to be on sh on camera and you're just gonna be able to look like whoever you want to look like and no one's gonna be able to know that you're not you. Like you could look any way you want to and sound any way you want to. Yeah, yeah and I'm I I'm just saying like I could look like you. Like I like I like I like like they and that would be kinda horrifying though. I feel like no one can trust anything that's online. It's like being curio being crissy.
KirkCast (02:02:15.901)
Like maybe like a peanut or something, I don't know.
Yeah. No, yeah. Cuffum does that. If you know who Cuffum is, he'll he'll do that, you know, from time to time. yeah. Think about the toxic people, what they could do yeah, I don't even want to think about it, but people do it now with AI. Malicious things making videos of people or pictures of people doing stuff with AI, you know.
CaptainCoach (02:02:35.31)
I just I'm gonna
CaptainCoach (02:02:39.776)
Stream is the the bear from Ted
KirkCast (02:02:42.887)
I'm gonna put in the chat GB Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:02:42.992)
yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:02:43.596)
Fucking Santa Claus stream today.
KirkCast (02:02:47.997)
Co I wanna be Coach Mills and some Nike pros, you know? Make me that today.
Coach Mills (02:02:50.808)
okay. I don't even know where the with in Nike pros came from. Like I I don't even know where the fuck that came from. Am I too old to understand some of this shit? I don't like it sometimes some of these things spawn from nowhere and I'm just like I feel old. That's when I feel fucking old.
CaptainCoach (02:02:52.593)
huh.
KirkCast (02:02:58.697)
Ha ha ha.
KirkCast (02:03:03.206)
It oof.
My wife is big into like the brain rot and all that, so like I I farm it from her, bro. See I can't escape it with her. But
Coach Mills (02:03:09.435)
is she is? That's good.
CaptainCoach (02:03:10.494)
CaptainCoach (02:03:17.058)
You said you got you got kids, Kirk?
KirkCast (02:03:19.113)
I've got a little ten or she's about to be eleven month old. Little little baby girl. No, no. She's about to turn one.
Coach Mills (02:03:22.196)
Thought you're about to say ten year old. I was like, You're a I thought you're I didn't know how old you were. but that's that's cool. Congrats, brother. Congrats. That's awesome.
CaptainCoach (02:03:28.568)
What are your what are your plans? I've been yeah, I've been watching my my s my sister raise her niece. It's been I wasn't expecting to be as invested in it as I am. I was expecting to enjoy, but I like I've it's it's honestly amazing being an uncle. what what are your plans for like social media usage, phone usage? Do you have plans with that? Have you thought about that?
KirkCast (02:03:38.227)
Yeah.
KirkCast (02:03:42.227)
Yeah.
KirkCast (02:03:47.835)
n we don't we we put we'll put blue ear or something on the T V. We're like maybe like we we don't we're not gonna do tablets or anything like that. Like I was a very active kid. Like she was walking when she was eight months old. Like she's gonna be a very active kid. I we don't yeah, like really early. Right? That's super early.
CaptainCoach (02:04:01.556)
wow. Wow, that's super early. Yeah.
KirkCast (02:04:06.715)
And like she likes our phone. Like I'll let her play with my phone, but like she's not sc swiping on it. She's like nibbling on it or like carrying it around, like kind of deal. But like we're not like, you know, she's crying in the car. We're not like, all right, let's put a video on the YouTube and put it on her phone and put it in front of her face. We don't do that. we try to stick to T V shows or movies. Bluey's awesome, bro. Like dude, like Bluey's a good show for like adults to watch. Like not a you know, go watch it by yourself without a kid, but
Coach Mills (02:04:13.318)
Let's go.
CaptainCoach (02:04:14.07)
CaptainCoach (02:04:20.556)
Right.
Coach Mills (02:04:25.384)
Blue E, let's fucking go. Blue is the fucking go, dude. I love it. I love it too. I I cry every time at the the the sign episode or
KirkCast (02:04:34.311)
You know, I've got a favorite character I've got favorite characters in Bluey, bro. Like Muffin and and the Dad, bro, Bandit, those are my guys, you know. But th otherwise though, we're not doing YouTube too much. Like we watch like, you know, some like Christian music stuff like on the on it. like we'll play the music and she bounces and stuff like that. But I'm not putting Cocoa Melon on the TV or like stuff to like make her go, and zone out for twenty minutes. Like I'd rather just like manage the baby, you know, you know. But
CaptainCoach (02:04:42.062)
It's good that it
CaptainCoach (02:04:53.442)
Nice.
Coach Mills (02:04:57.588)
yeah, yeah, fuck it, yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:05:00.152)
Right.
Coach Mills (02:05:02.056)
Yeah, my my daughter, my sev my seven year old, she's about to turn eight. She's she really wants to be a YouTuber. Like that's what she wants to be. She wants to be a YouTuber and I'm like I'm like I'm like I I I was like, I'll let you be a YouTuber when you're sixteen or some shit like that. Like you're not you're not a YouTuber until then, but but yeah, I don't know. Definitely, definitely.
KirkCast (02:05:07.451)
Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:05:08.758)
It's number one most desired job by by our youth.
KirkCast (02:05:15.258)
Right, right.
KirkCast (02:05:21.556)
But I mean, it's cool. I mean, like, we're also in a unique position. Like, I can understand like you know, if you work nine to five at a at a job away from your child, like coming home and, you know, you need twenty minutes, you know, do what you gotta do, you know, sometimes. But me and my wife, we both work from home. We we do all of almost all of our child care by ourselves. So like you know, I have the time and patience to entertain the child, you know, when need be. But
CaptainCoach (02:05:47.308)
Yeah, I I think there's more information out on that now. I think a lot of people kinda know there's been more studies that, you know, doing exposing people to a young age to that sort of thing. Like technology is in fact not good. And I I I that is like a good thing to see 'cause you're not, you know, like my sister I said and some other people I've tell is you know, 'cause I I got friends who got kids, you know, now I'm getting up there. So that that's honestly a bit makes me a bit optimistic 'cause
KirkCast (02:05:58.791)
Yeah.
Right.
KirkCast (02:06:09.021)
Mm-hmm.
Coach Mills (02:06:14.868)
'Cause that's
KirkCast (02:06:15.187)
There's definitely a big crowd of people who are like anti against like the screens. Like my wife, like I look look I do whatever my wife says. You know. I'm gonna do exactly what she says, raising the child and everything. You know, it's different if I'm gonna have a son, you know, there's a different way to raise a son than a daughter, so you know. But
Coach Mills (02:06:23.316)
Hey yeah. That that that's a happy that's a happy one, yeah. Happily married, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Agreed.
CaptainCoach (02:06:27.098)
I
CaptainCoach (02:06:31.02)
Look, I I I feel like there was like a generation skipped in there around like where zoo like the the Zoomers where it like they they did not get the memo their parents and like we we skipped the generation. Like one of these like the Zoomers right now, bro, they're all cooked, man. Like these these people are brain rotted to hell, man.
KirkCast (02:06:43.762)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:06:45.192)
Well s see that that's so I f I I struggle with this. I'm curious what you think, Kirk, 'cause I I do struggle with this. 'Cause like I my my daughter, she has a she has a game system where she plays Minecraft. Like she's really good at Minecraft. It like joysticks and stuff. But like she they don't really she she doesn't have a tablet or her phone or anything like that. But I I struggle with where's the balance because, you know, I I think that it's better for them to never be, you know, using technology, but at the same time
KirkCast (02:06:55.208)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (02:07:00.648)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:07:11.378)
Like that's that's everything we use. And it only gets more entrenched. Like like I say, like I don't let them they don't get they don't get phones or tablets in the car and they own they never get to I they don't even own those. But I'm always on my phone. You know, like and I feel like a hypocrite sometimes where it's just like these are rules for you but not rules for me and like when you're older you're gonna I mean I don't want them to fall behind what's reality too. Like at the same time.
KirkCast (02:07:13.692)
Right, yeah.
KirkCast (02:07:24.369)
Right.
KirkCast (02:07:35.689)
I think that there's gonna be a healthy balance and also like the substance of what they're like spending their time on and doing, like like Minecraft for example, like I've got a creative idea, I wanna build this, I'm gonna go and get the resources, I'm gonna build it, how am I gonna do it? Like that's one thing, but like sitting there playing like mobile games is not probably as like healthy as like a like a story game or a creative like Minecraft or example. and the same thing with like yeah.
Coach Mills (02:07:52.264)
Yeah yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:07:52.982)
Mm.
CaptainCoach (02:07:57.561)
So social media, just those algorithms, man, they're meant to get you addicted, bruh.
Coach Mills (02:08:02.825)
Yeah, anything alg algorithm anything algorithm based is fucking horrifying too.
CaptainCoach (02:08:06.19)
Well it's like a lot of things are algorithm we don't even know now too. That's the s the the scary part. It's like a lot of things that you wouldn't think
KirkCast (02:08:06.457)
yeah.
Yeah. That's why we don't try to use YouTube as much. Like like there's we watch Bluey on YouTube, but like it's gonna keep playing Bluey. Like six hour Bluey video, like we're not gonna get through that. But like the cocoa melon videos that are five minutes long, you know, what's gonna come up next after that is algorithm based rather. But y it's scary. Dude, the amount of money that these
Coach Mills (02:08:24.614)
And some some some type of complete brain rot. Yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:08:25.238)
Well y even just like sh shopping shopping, like th that's all
KirkCast (02:08:32.229)
child YouTube stuff are making like like you know like you guys do YouTube you probably are monetized on YouTube you know how much you make per thousand views and I'm like looking at the YouTube video and I'm like four hundred thousand or four hundred million views like I'm like what the world these people are are raking it in bro raking it in but my god it I mean I don't know I don't know what they're doing you know
Coach Mills (02:08:35.668)
It's insane.
CaptainCoach (02:08:50.004)
Really? There's probably not a lot of competition for it?
Coach Mills (02:08:53.65)
No, okay Okay there there's CPMs so like C PMs for kids content is is quite a bit less, but they get so many views 'cause a lot of times it's re rewatched over and over and over and over and over again.
CaptainCoach (02:09:05.038)
yeah, it makes sense.
KirkCast (02:09:05.83)
Like us as adults, like like we have control over what we're watching. You know, I'm I'm tired of watching this Russ video, I'm gonna go over and watch, you know, XYZ video instead. Like a lot of the time, like parents will just throw something on the T V and the kid is around it watching it, goes through, it plays a different video, different video, different video. The kid's not constantly like changing what they're watching, but dude, like
CaptainCoach (02:09:19.992)
Right.
KirkCast (02:09:27.74)
A fucking Wiggles video from two months ago had like f eight million views. I'm like, bro, they are raking it in, bro. I don't Yes, yes. Roblox in general, everything attached to Roblox, you know. You make a good video game content, Roblox s you know, spoofing that in the next week, you know, you be quick. Those people make a lot of money making these Roblox maps.
CaptainCoach (02:09:32.974)
Jesus. I didn't know the wiggles were still around.
Coach Mills (02:09:36.19)
Don't even don't even get me started on the Roblox. The Roblox videos. I don't know if you've seen those. This fucking
Coach Mills (02:09:50.1)
And I I set it up for her one time and then I just got ding ding ding on my phone and it was fucking four purchases for like six dollars each. And I was like, wait, what the fuck? And I run downstairs and she's hanging out on the couch with the family and and she she got a little cute costume for her character and she got the butt the the catty ears and the and she's like she's I love it. I was like, I was like, no, no, no.
KirkCast (02:09:55.282)
Mm-hmm.
KirkCast (02:10:11.549)
Yeah.
Coach Mills (02:10:16.749)
We gotta get we gotta get this credit card off here. 'cause it was just on my account. And I was I'll buy you I'll buy you over a bucks card for like Christmas or some shit.
KirkCast (02:10:18.525)
Right.
KirkCast (02:10:22.309)
Yeah. We're gonna do video games. We're gonna do s I mean, I I plan on doing some video games. Like I wanna do a lot of co op video games, like like I feel like I mean who's not gonna be playing video games in fifth in twenty f thirty years? You know what I'm saying? Like I get that this is a crowd of people who like going outdoors and doing stuff like that. I like going outdoors and doing stuff like that. But like I feel like to some degree everybody's gonna be playing on their phones in some way, shape or form. And I would rather like
Coach Mills (02:10:34.215)
yeah yeah.
KirkCast (02:10:47.345)
raise my child to be playing like a video game of substance rather than like scrolling on social media or like watching a video over or like watching videos over and over and over again. Like at least there's like more motor skill to it, more thought process to it. I think TikTok's on the way out, bro. You gonna be honest. Yeah, I do.
Coach Mills (02:11:00.232)
Not gonna lie, tick I think TikTok is the scariest thing, like by far. You think so? yeah?
CaptainCoach (02:11:07.47)
I saw a study somewhere that said video game players have less cognitive decline as they get older. They also have better motor skills, which I think is not too surprising like people who are like hardcore or like play play a lot. So Yeah.
KirkCast (02:11:22.354)
I agree in every aspect except for cloak and dagger mains. the opposite. It's the opposite effect.
Coach Mills (02:11:25.204)
shit. Yeah We we I thought we could get it through one pod without shitting off support mates, but we can't 'cause y'all su no, I was kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think this is the perfect this has been the perfect episode. We we I'm glad we didn't beat our head against the wall just talking about fucking triple support the whole time. So it's been very, very fun. I I really like you you coming on, bro. I want you to on on again. It's been it's been great.
CaptainCoach (02:11:34.69)
You wanna you wanna wrap it up? great episode, bro.
KirkCast (02:11:39.634)
It was great.
KirkCast (02:11:48.093)
Yeah.
KirkCast (02:11:52.165)
Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. I'm not like a big like looking at the numbers, you know, with a fine tooth comb. Like I'm just like when I play Marvel Rivals I try to have fun, I try to sling a good vibe and I feel like that was reflected in the the video or the the pod today, you know? Like we had a good time.
CaptainCoach (02:11:52.684)
Yeah, yeah, man. It's it's good vibes.
Coach Mills (02:12:07.442)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah, yeah, yeah. And and you're a hundred percent welcome back anytime. We would love to have you on. If you wanna come on with a certain guest, we can bring you on whenever you want to. but but let the people know where they can find you, where they can support you.
CaptainCoach (02:12:08.226)
Hell yeah. Absolutely. We're chilling, bro.
KirkCast (02:12:23.089)
Yeah, you can find me on Kirkcast on like every social media, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram. I stream every day. I usually stream at night. Sometimes I stream during the day. I usually start with Marvel Rivals and then we we've been going into deadlock and but I always try to do like a a variety segment at the end.
But yeah, if you could go drop a follow if you're watching the video right now and you wanna drop a follow on the YouTube, that would be a great place to support me trying to grow my YouTube. It's like pulling teeth when you're not the one trick player insert character. I I you know
Coach Mills (02:12:47.08)
Yeah. Let's
CaptainCoach (02:12:54.188)
I anybody with a a green background lights got my seal of approval, bruh.
Coach Mills (02:12:54.27)
Right.
And make sure you smash that like, subscribe, and please check out Kirk Cass. He's been an amazing guest. Go subscribe to his YouTube. All the links will be in the description down below. Thank you, and we'll see you next time. Peace. so real quick before you leave, I want to make a funny thumbnail here. I want Captain Coach and I looking up into the center, and I want Kirk doing something fucking funny, because we're basically gonna be looking up into your picture. You can do whatever you want, but we're gonna be like
CaptainCoach (02:13:05.281)
A sir.
Bye.
KirkCast (02:13:21.531)
Okay, okay. D okay. I could do a couple things. I could do I could do okay, I could do thank yous on the couch. Do you know what thank yous are? Do you know what a thank you is? Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know what that is? Should I do it on the couch? Should I do it on the couch? Okay.
Coach Mills (02:13:26.578)
Like that. Like like you're looking
Yeah, wait, what's that? What's that it's gonna be pretty zoomed in. yeah, you wanna do that? You could. Well it's it's it's just a it's just gonna be a still picture, but yeah. If you you could pose it's it's a still picture however you want.
CaptainCoach (02:13:39.662)
All right. I gave you mine.
KirkCast (02:13:43.417)
Yeah, yeah yeah, I'll do that, I'll do that, I'll do that, I'll do it. I'll give you a couple options.
Coach Mills (02:13:49.872)
that's that's fucking that's actually so that's actually peek It's actually so it's actually so peak. No, that's actually that's actually gonna be fucking perfect. I'm gonna zoom that in, it's gonna look fucking insane. That's gonna be perfect. Like
CaptainCoach (02:13:51.187)
Jesus Christ
CaptainCoach (02:14:01.71)
That's great. It was it was a pleasure meeting you, bro. I've I've I've heard a lot of good things about you from a lot of different people, so it's good to finally get you on, dude. Absolutely, dude.
KirkCast (02:14:03.877)
My chat's gonna love that. Yeah, it was good meeting you guys or you as well. I've been over Mills for a little bit, but
Coach Mills (02:14:07.965)
Yeah, yeah.
KirkCast (02:14:11.529)
Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm glad people are talking well about me. But I appreciate you guys having me on, dude. I'm always down to jump in. it's link good vibe, or if y'all got a specific topic, you know, I'm always down to hash it out.
Coach Mills (02:14:12.82)
Yeah yeah.
CaptainCoach (02:14:17.902)
Hell yeah, bro.
Coach Mills (02:14:21.69)
Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, if you if you're ever running some deadlock, let me know. I might I'll be down to play with some people. I can't play the game by myself, but
CaptainCoach (02:14:27.916)
I w I would too actually. I'm trying to maybe play a little deadlock here.
KirkCast (02:14:30.151)
Let's do it, dude. We played like I said last night we had like a full squad. It was Zotec, me, Panu, Mark, and Infraasu. And it was like the best time that I had on Mar or on Deadlock so far, like playing with a group of people. It's not bad playing by yourself, low key, but like with a group of people that are having fun, like the energy's a lot better. People that are content creators, you know, we get the we get the vibe, you know what I'm saying?
Coach Mills (02:14:42.002)
I think a squad would be really fun.
Coach Mills (02:14:50.6)
We yeah, we get the right, right. Keep up the energy. Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Alright, yeah, yeah. Hey, I really appreciate you coming on. I think everything is it says it's at ninety nine percent. It's like almost I don't know why it's like stuck. It looks so is it like stuck?
CaptainCoach (02:15:00.878)
Yeah, says that for me too.
All well I'm gonna I gotta get ready for stream, so I'm I'll keep it up.
Coach Mills (02:15:07.836)
Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. See you next time. Peace.