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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Pastor CZ, Curtis Zackery. I don't know that I've ever called you, Curtis, but CZ is how I know you. And that's what I'm going to call you. And that's what I want everyone to feel like they can call you because of how connected I think people are going to feel to you and to this message after this conversation. So I just want to say I've already done your professional bio intro, but I want to
say to you in the hearing of everyone that I have kept an app, a notes app note on my phone for several years, just entitled wisdom from CZ from our many conversations from just things you say in passing that you don't realize are profound and timely. And I could have chosen any one of those things and done an hour podcast on it. So just know I
I'm so thankful for your faithfulness, for the way that you steward the wisdom God's given you and the way that you speak it in season to people. And I know I am among many who are nodding and saying that that's been true. But my probably first memorable exposure to you and to this work of soul rest was shortly after I came on staff at Church of the City and this book released.
And you talked about it in a staff meeting because we were about to go into a summer of, think we maybe called it soul rest or something similar, but the whole point was rest for our souls. And at that season in my life, and now again, it feels like something out there that I really want to grasp. And I think that people listening,
have that similar felt need. if it's okay, I'd love to just spend some time talking about soul rest and hopefully talking about it in a way that feels practical and accessible to people because this has been really transformational for me. So, so what led you to write it? Like what
I'd love to go back and hear all things CZ, but maybe we can save that for our next podcast. What led you to go, you know what, I'm going to write this book and it's going to be on rest for the soul, which sounds good, but might feel unattainable at times. Yeah. I can't move on without acknowledging your kind words. mean, that is really humbling to hear. And I'm, so thankful that anything I may have said or
been an encouragement in has been helpful moving forward. And yeah, it's incredibly humbling in this moment and hard to move past that. But yeah, I arrived at the idea of exploring soul rest simply because I was deeply tired. And I recognized really quickly in my exploration around the fatigue that I was feeling that there was no
resolution that was found for me on the surface of any sort of remedy that would be available. I would try to take days away that would maybe infuse or inject some fun or some time away from work on a computer, study or things like that. I would try to get sleep, physical rest. We took some vacations and in all of that, there was something that was amiss in my
soul, and I needed to figure out exactly what it was. the long and the short of it was I was serving in a really under -resourced community in the Bay Area of California, and the type of ministry work that we were doing together was good and purposeful work that we really enjoyed. We loved being neighbors and friends to folks who were experiencing some hard seasons in life.
A lot of what they were experiencing allowed for us to meet practical and felt needs. We were helping homeless friends find places to live. We were walking with people who were in recovery from alcohol, drug addiction. There were a lot of things that were challenging about life that we were privileged to be a part of the conversation. every day we felt like the things that we were getting to do were fulfilling and they were.
rich with meaning and purpose. But there came a time where I started to recognize in the midst of doing all of that good hard work that I was slowly depleting in both energy drive, and I would probably even add just spiritual sustenance. I knew I was doing good work for God, but I was arriving at the conclusion that I was not.
working with God as I was doing that work. And I think you saying that I think people feel a lot of resonance, but also maybe a little bit of relief that it's possible to be doing really wonderful kingdom oriented forward motion, Jesus lifting things and be completely exhausted. and I know we'll get to the hinge point of that in a little bit. I'm wondering if you could for us,
define rest in the context of soul versus physical rest? Yeah, I think one of the first things that I discovered in my own exploration is some of the misnomers when it comes to rest for especially the community of faith. think the two that are important to address before really answering the question is a lot of times we equate rest
with laziness. So we'll say, if I need to take a rest, I'm not willing to do the hard work or I'm giving up or I'm not giving my all for God or for others or to support the things that I know I'm supposed to be doing in the world. so rest being equated with laziness will then cause us to avoid any sort of illusion toward the need for rest. The second, and I think a lot of us land in this place is that we equate rest
with failure. If I have to rest, if I finally have to admit that I need to stop, then that means I can't cut it. That means I don't have what it takes. That means I'm not good enough. I mean, it could get as granular for different people in different situations, but I think it's important to start by saying those two things in the way of what I think is a wrong view of rest and then kind of back up to say, I think a biblical
definition of rest is contentment and satisfaction that comes from God alone. Now that might even feel sort of general and maybe even reductionistic, but I think from the very beginning of the Bible, there's a message that is woven throughout the whole of scripture and that our souls are longing for the satisfaction that come from God alone. And it starts with the account of the creation of the human beings. And we see in the order of that
progression when he creates humans and develops a relationship with them, that he didn't first create humans to do things for him. He created them to be with him. And for some reason along the way, whether it's in our faith journey or ministry work, whatever it is, we've sort of flip -flopped that way of thinking. We begin to think that our value to God, our true identity is found in what
we can do the work we can do for God, not simply being with him, being his and holding the reality of that relationship. Yeah, that's convicting across a host of levels because you you saying if we need to rest, sometimes it feels like it's because we can't cut it. I definitely relate to that because part of what is exalted
what is rewarded. You know, Andy Stanley has a phrase that what gets rewarded gets repeated. And for those of us who like to be high capacity, who want to be achieving rest flies in the face of that, especially the need to rest. And so it's convicting already for me to be thinking, I feel shame around what I'm not able to do.
when that's not what God is asking of me. He's asking me to be with Him. So what would you say some signs for people? Like if people are kind of trying to self -identify, you explained kind of how you found yourself when you started really diving into this, but what are some signs of this kind of spiritual fatigue in people? What could they be looking for? Yeah, I think
A lot of times it's way more simple than we make it. think many of us even hearing these words that we're speaking together or if we stumble across a premise around the idea of the need or longing for rest, we have a real sense a lot of times that there's something within us that is reaching out for that very thing. But if needed, I think an evaluation of our lives could
reveal that we find ourselves laughing less than we used to. We find ourselves withdrawing from people and not wanting to be in social situations where maybe that's our natural tendency and times of flourishing and we start to find ourselves kind of closing in on ourselves. Like maybe we start to experience and feel long bouts of resentment and frustration toward other people. Maybe we're even finding ourselves living in
the comparison trap so often and we're not able to thrive and exist apart from who our life is relative to others. I mean, there's so many that I could say I don't want to be too prescriptive, but I think it's those kinds of things that start to jump out at us that help us to realize maybe something's off and we need to figure out how to get to the place within ourselves to find the fulfillment that is being
reveal the need for fulfillment that's being revealed through these symptoms that are coming out. I love that you said, I mean, part of it is just if you're listening to this, if, if the words soul rest, I want to hear what this is about. That might be a sign in and of itself. Well, I mean, I gotta be real. There's so many times where people have said to me, man, I saw your book in the store. I bought it immediately.
I never read it, but man, it looks so restful. And I just knew I needed to have it on my coffee table or I needed to have it. And I'm like, man, if I could provide even just that little bit of respite, then that's cool. I'm good for it. In the book, you talk so much about rest being inextricably linked to identity and specifically our identity in Christ. what does understanding our identity
in Christ, how does that link us to soul rest? So in such a way that we can't have one without the other. Yeah, that's the nerve center of this whole thing. And there's so many things that I would want to say about that idea. I think the most simple and succinct way I could describe that is in the very fabric of the way things work and exist in our modern culture, productivity and what we do.
and how we represent ourselves to the world are really where we find our mark in the way that society works. It's what we produce, what we make. And that spans all the way from our presence online on social media, all the way to our work and what we do with our hands, to how much money we make, to our place in the world. And it's something that I think
humanity is constantly conscious of, especially in the way that we live our modern lives. And so if our identity is interwoven with what we do, what we make, who we present ourselves as to the world, all of those things are not sustainable to uphold in our own strength. At some point we're going to find
that we're unable to continue to shoulder the responsibility and the weight of expectation and what it takes to continue the perception of who we've created the world to see us as. so true identity is when we live from the reality of who we are into the world. Frederick Buechner calls that the original shimmering self. And he talks about how so often we can't live from that self because we've gotten so used to putting on
clothes and hats against the world's weather. He doesn't just say we wear one mask. He says we have so many different outfits to approach what's happening in the world that it's almost impossible for us to get to the place where we remember and live from who we really are. And so just what I described right now sounds exhausting. So maybe you're listening to this and you're thinking, man, I wouldn't want to live that way. But the reality is many of us
Most of us, dare I say all of us to some degree can relate to that idea, whether it's in one faction of our life or maybe all of our life. so soul rest is then the ability to live from the secure reality of who I am and whose I am. It's this understanding that there is a finished work that has been done on our behalf.
which then establishes who we are living and moving forward. That finished work, of course, is Christ on the cross. And so our identity and our worth and our value are no longer contingent upon what we do, make, build, produce. Our identity, our value is found in Christ and there's a restfulness in His finished work. So when He becomes the
One who has done the work and is shouldering the responsibility of the weight of my identity, I rest in the wake of who he is on my behalf. That's so good. I'm wondering just for someone listening who's going, I 100 % agree with all that. There's nothing that I'm like, don't know. Like, no, I understand it all and I agree with all of it. Practically. Yeah.
what has it looked like for you? Because you not, I mean, this book is several years old. And so you have had to now live it out. And I've watched you up close. It's really important to me that people know that I've watched you do this. There's a lot of great books out there, but you might meet the author and go, did you write the book? This is not the case with you. I've watched you live soul rest. So for somebody who's going, okay,
bring me in the shallow end, like help me get my feet wet. What can people begin doing to ensure that rather than getting up and putting on Buechner's example there of all the different clothes and masks, what does it look like to live from rest and from identity, even in the simplest of ways? Yeah, it's so funny because I think my immediate answer
is what I would say the entry point and the shallow end, as you said it, but it's probably the hardest part of this whole thing. So you referred to the fact that I wrote this book a few years ago. And to be completely frank, think everything I wrote in the book was from God and a gift in the way of understanding these premises.
and I stand 100 % behind the words that I've Alongside of that, I think in the years since having written it, I've realized as much as I was right in what I wrote, I was incomplete in my own experience of what I've written. And so that shallow end that we're talking about, I think, was even revealed to me only a few years ago.
in the depth of what it really represented for me to experience and get to that place where my identity was clear and understood under the covering of Christ. And that was to explore, identify, confess, repent, and renounce from sin. And it really is the shallow end and the beginning because from a biblical standpoint and from a Christian standpoint,
that is the place where this whole journey begins. It's the identification that we, in our humanness, are sinners, and we need salvation from Christ. One of the things that I've realized that even as a follower of Jesus is there are times where we're living in a general sense of understanding our forgiveness that comes from Christ. But maybe there are things in our lives that are specific struggles or maybe specific
sticking points in our journey. I might be alone in this, I don't know, but I can only speak to my own journey. It's knowing that I'm a follower of Jesus and that I'm counted amongst the community of faith, but yet there are some unresolved things that feel like they're continually causing me to wrestle and grapple with these bouts where
restfulness would be the last thing I would describe about the way that my life is lived. And what I've come to discover is just quite frankly, there are things that may or may not have been confessed and covered by the blood of the lamb and at the foot of the cross or in a conversation with someone else. But those things have root issues. have causal elements to them that
are important to uncover, uproot, and bring before the throne as well. And I think for many of us, the easy entry point to the discovery of how to live from a place of rest in our identity is to know our standing before God and to be clean and clear in our hearts and to know that all of who we are.
not only just in symptomatic actions, but at the very core of our being has been submitted to the way of Jesus. And so that's the one thing that I would say that I wish I would have spent more time writing about. But the reality is I needed to live this out and I needed to experience some brokenness and some counseling and some deep work that has led to the revelation of what I believe to be true freedom.
and true rest. I was experiencing a kind of rest. And I think again, with all that I wrote, there was a beautiful roadmap laid out for me to exhibit. But as you said, I think the powerful and more important part of a journey is not to live perfectly through the whole time, but it's to live truthfully. And I think there were parts of my life that I didn't even realize weren't truthful to the sense of me understanding that I needed to go a little deeper and figure things out.
That's so good. And I would just say to people listening, and I'm sure you would agree, when we are willing and humble enough to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal those things, He will. And so I often say, don't ask what you don't want to know. But if you are wondering about what CZ said and what some of those things might be, I would just encourage you humbly to get before the Lord and to ask.
because he is faithful to answer in those things. I do know one really specific thing that you didn't intend to become known for, certainly around these parts have become kind of the poster child and spokesperson for. We recently did a digital fast at our church and...
much of the information around determining to do that as a church and the study and the impact and all that our pastor poured into that was a lot of that came from conversations with you where you made a significant and substantial change to your interaction with technology and you did it specifically connected to technological impacts on soul rest.
So if you don't mind just taking us on that journey, why did you decide that you are still living that out? And I'm not sure before we did that Digital Fast as a church and before we had so much written about it, I'm not sure I would have believed that technology had as distinct an impact on soul rest as it turns out that it does. So can you just put some language around that for people?
I know I said the last thing I would want to talk for a long time. I feel like I need a whole podcast for this. But yeah, I think everything I just said in regard to the realizations that I've discovered over time in the ways that I give my attention and my affections to things that in some ways were unknown to me before some of the exploration. Some things were shown to me and that was really hard to discover and to see.
And I think in the reality of recognizing places where things were out of rhythm or out of sync or not producing soul rest, you start to ask the question, well, how can I find resolution and also a way forward that allows for life to look differently? And I had to ask hard questions about that in every sphere and spectrum of life. And
I would venture to say that for most people like me, one of the most essential tools that we have as a part of our lives is our phone. And our phone for many of us is a smartphone, which then provides so much access and interaction with the rest of the world. And a lot of that brings good things that are very beneficial. A lot of it brings a lot of inherent challenge and threat to the way that we live our lives. And so for me,
in order to live in a way that I thought was in rhythm with what God was showing and revealing to me about true soul rest and living from a place of identity. I knew that I needed to get rid of my smartphone and I needed to take a step towards something different in the way that I communicate. I got this thing called the light phone and I will say unequivocally that it was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my whole life and I will never go back.
to a smartphone and I know you jokingly ask so often, you sure you want to throw that out there? Cause people are recording this. You say never. man, I couldn't be more confident about something in my life. And it's really because of what you're getting at. It's the by -product of what it's led to in my life's experience as a result of engaging with communication and technology in this way. It's really more than anything just
sort of reframing the relationship with technology from something that we become beholden to, to now something that is simply a tool that we utilize for our purposes in life. And, you know, for some of us, you might hear that and go, all right, man, that's real extreme. You're being kind of exaggerating right there. But it's interesting when you start to think about the simple way you interact with your technology, let's just say mainly your phone, your phone.
is really designed to tell you what to do. It calls you over. Hey, you got a message. Hey, there's a notification. Hey, there's a sale. Hey, there's a reminder. Hey, you got to get back to these people. Hey, you can look this up right now. Hey, you can. And so you're constantly being bidden by your technology toward its purposes. It wants you to come and engage with the things that are in its world rather than when I need to use a communication device.
I should go to it. I should tell it what I want it to do for me so that I can do whatever I need done. so again, I said I can talk about this so much and I really could, but I think to answer your question really understanding and evaluating your relationship to technology will help you to understand your natural
bent, your natural proclivity, what you truly go to. I know something you say often is we learn to pay attention to what we pay attention to. And I think that's really important. And what I would venture to say that for many, like myself, is if you give yourself the permission to take honest assessment of technology and its place in your life, you will realize how much you pay attention to it in ways that
may be disproportionate to how much time you should be paying attention. That's so good. you said we could do a whole podcast on it. At some point there will be a podcast on it because it is our church's decision, our pastor's decision to lead our church into a digital fast and to basically call a corporate fast around digital technology. I think my family would all say to a person it was
the most profound thing that we have done together as a family. I will say for myself, when I began to pay attention to what I pay attention to, specifically in relation to my phone, I was convicted of my idolatry of social media, of every morning, the first thing I look at, and every night, the last thing I look at. God just began to ask me where my heart's affection.
was. I will also say that I, I couldn't have told you what soul rest felt like, but I'll tell you that when I'm not on social media for a long time, I feel soul rest. So I still need to dig into that all the way. Because I don't think anything is all good or all bad in this conversation, but you know, I, I know it when I feel it and I know soul rest when I know I'm not going to be on social media.
So, which is funny to say on a podcast that will be promoted on social media. Yeah. Well, it's exactly like you said, I think, even for me, as you jokingly said, I've kind of become now a poster child for this idea. And the last thing I would want for anyone to feel is any sort of judgment or assessment of their rightness and wrongness in their use of their phone or anything like that. one of the biggest things that I like to hold onto
in the way that I live my life is to hopefully have a posture that is more invitational than informational. And the only reason I get so excited and passionate about talking about any of things is because I know the difference that it's made in my own life. And it's not in an assessment of the rightness and wrongness of others, but it's just if we're thinking and looking and longing for a better way. That's what Jesus did often. And I just want to do the best that I can to model that to...
follow his footsteps and saying, come, come follow, follow what I'm doing. And that's what I want to do. I want to be at the feet of Jesus and at his, at the tail of his robe always. And if there's something that I've stumbled on that could be helpful, I just want to say, Hey, I could tell you about it, but maybe you should just jump in and try and see. So. And I do think we have to say for the people who like can't move on with us because they have 400 questions.
CZ does have an iPad, he does have a laptop, he does get on our Zoom calls, like he is in group text. Now granted, he makes them green, because he's got his light phone, but he can do emojis now. Which is a big deal, that was a big win. But it's not a technology is evil, no technology, I'm gonna live in a way that doesn't support the way we work in the world, but it is you deciding.
the place that technology will occupy and using it as a, I'm just thinking of it's a hammer. A hammer doesn't come to you. You go pick up a hammer and use a hammer when you need it. And it's just, you have chosen to put technology back in that place. thank you for sharing that. Cause I know, I know you didn't intend to become that guy, but you definitely have been such a help.
You know, we talked about the fact that we did a digital fast as a church. I'm wondering, as you've been doing this work over the years, what does it look like, do you think, for churches and faith communities to not only espouse soul rest, but create a construct and an ethos where that flourishes for people? Yeah, I think one of the things that I've learned
both in practice and in observance is we have more ability and license than we think to make these types of decisions than I think we presume. I think a lot of times, whether it's in individual conversations that I have with folks, or if I'm chatting with a church that's interested in some of these ideas, the immediate response is, well, I would love to do that, but I can't because blank.
XYZ. Yeah. And that's any number of very reasonable things. But one of the things that is interesting about the specific communities you just referred to is so many times those communities or let's just say ministry teams, or if it's a church -wide idea, you get to decide the type of culture and the tenor by which you engage the things of scripture and
the practices you choose to engage in. Like you have the autonomy to decide for things to be different. I think our own church is a very real example of that where if we decide together to allow this next sermon series to be focused on this practice, then we get to decide that. We don't have to be beholden to what normally happens or what's expected from this time.
We get to choose that. And I think that happens corporately, but it also happens individually as well. You talked about the different other technology devices that I have. And that's been really important because let's just say I'm talking with an individual who's experiencing extreme burnout, or maybe they're having real struggles with technology and what they're looking at and engaging with online. And they're just going, man, I need to change some things. And I wish I could.
I just can't because I have a job that requires email or I just can't. And those are real challenges. And I want to always be sensitive to that. But at the same time, if we give ourselves permission, there is a conversation to be had about whether or not it's possible. And if so, how could it happen? And so a big thing for me, especially in having a computer or an iPad is to be able to help somebody engage with the reality of what that looks like. And so
I remember one time having a conversation with a guy who was just desperate for some sort of respite and he needed to make a change. He heard I had a light phone and he just was like, basically cornered me and was like, all right, I need you to give me another way because I can't do your way because I need to do this for work. And I listened to him and I allowed him to kind of share all of the reasons why he couldn't. But because he just took that extra minute to stop and listen, I was able to say, well, I've learned.
in my process that I still have emails and this is the way that I use email and this is the schedule that I follow in order to engage with email and this is the parameters that I put on if I were to ever use an iPad and this is where I am always positioned when I can. And I just kind of gave some different examples and it was really interesting because he had demonstratively stated there was no way he could do it and in three minutes time because he took that extra time and he gave himself permission to reimagine things now he's going
wait, I actually can, and I want to try. And that's really all I would ever suggest toward anyone. I never want to be prescriptive, but I would say try. Just try and see if maybe these ideas, which seem so radical and crazy, maybe aren't as radical and crazy as you think they are once you get into them. Yeah, that's so good. You mentioned this guy who's like, I have a demanding job, et cetera.
I have found in almost 30 years of full -time ministry that I would say it's demanding. And to what we talked about earlier, it's all good things, all for Jesus, all the time. But I have not found that full -time ministry, as I've experienced it, necessarily automatically lends itself to soul rest. I would imagine
other people in demanding jobs feel that same way. So this may be a controversial question, but I'm wondering, is it possible to work that hard in demanding jobs and from a place of soul rest are the two mutually exclusive? Like if you wanna have soul rest, do you now have to sit at home and be independently wealthy or?
Can you that's not true. Let me dispel that notion. You're saying from personal experience. personal experience. talk a little bit about the tension I would imagine a lot of us feel in we're high achievers, high performers, we get a lot done and we need to in order to earn the paycheck that we're getting. Also, we want to be people of soul rest. How do those two seemingly
disparaging ideas come together. Yeah, I love that you framed it as a controversial question because I think on its surface, it makes complete sense that that would be controversial and near impossible as a premise. But when you dig a little bit deeper and you even think practically, it really feels so utterly simple. And that's why this whole thing, this idea of soul rest is so exciting to me, not because it's a premise that I came up with.
As a matter of fact, Jesus himself uses that phrase in Matthew 11. This wasn't something I coined. It was something I began to pursue. And it's funny because I think about it in a very practical sense, connected to my love for running. And a lot of people laugh at me that I love to run. And I know a lot of people say they only run when they're running away from someone or being chased. But it's interesting. I love to run. And there's been a couple of times where I've
trained and run a half marathon and just the energy and the excitement of all the people that are there and just the challenge to yourself and to overcome. you know, it's just really fulfilling in a lot of ways. And let's just say someone knows about my love for running and they know I love running half marathons. And so they find out that I'm running in the half marathon here in Nashville and they wait for me at the finish line.
stumble across after 13 .1 miles, my legs are cramping up, my toes are aching, I'm hungry, I just want to lay down. And this person comes up to me and they say, hey, I heard you love running. There's another half marathon right down the road. Hop in the car, I'll take you over there and you can run it right now. That's utterly ridiculous. Why? Because my love for running is not enough to sustain me in another running race right now.
In order for me to run again, I need to rest in order for me to sustain and do the thing I love to do or to do good work in the world. It starts with rest so that I can give my full effort. And it's funny because if I were to say that apart from the idea of soul rest, everyone would give a resounding, of course, know, it's so practical. But again, for some reason, when it comes to the faith journey,
We have sort of confused this idea that rest is a good thing. It's not a good thing. It's bad. Like we're kind of convoluted in the idea, but it's interesting in the message version of that Matthew 11 passage I just referred to, Eugene Peterson says, are you tired, worn out, burned out on religion? Come to me, get away with me. I'll help you recover your life. And one of the things that's really
prominent in that verse to me is when he says, walk with me and work with me. Watch how I do it. And I really pondered that a lot because it gets down to the question that you're asking, like, what could that mean? And one of the things that I realized, especially as people of faith in ministry jobs, for me, especially, I've realized if I'm not working from rest,
I'm actually counteracting the very hope that I have for people to find the restfulness and the renewal and the restoration that comes from Jesus. I'm the one who is propelling and leading the charge in this ministry work for God. But if I can work from a place of understanding that my life, my ability, my passion, my sustenance comes from Him first,
That's what's actually going to fuel and fill me for the ministry work that I'm wanting to do. Eugene Peterson one time said, how can I lead people beside the quiet still waters if I'm in perpetual motion? So good. And so I say ministry job just because that's a lot of what I've done, but it's true for everyone. I think there's an ability for us to work from rest in our work, not being driven by our productivity, but realizing our best work.
is when we are rested up. Yeah, so good. If you could encapsulate in one thing what you hope people take away from this, maybe for some people, introductory conversation on soul rest as a...
You don't have to remember every single thing that CZ said today, but if you do nothing else, a next right step is this. What would you hope that that would be for people? Man, it's hard for me not to come back to what I shared with you a little earlier, which is that shallow end entry into the pool. The one thing I would want people to know is that the first thing that leads to restfulness in your soul.
is to be open and to be clean and to be honest before God. There are rhythms, there are practices, there are things you can do that you can institute into your way of life that will help you to find sustainability. There will be work -life balance things. There are all types of things that I love to share with teams that I work with or staffs or elder boards or board chair, whatever. Like I'd like to talk about all this practical stuff, but
At the end of the day, if our heart is clean before God and we are able to do Psalm 39 work to search me, God, try my thoughts and actually submit to it. I feel like I've done it in the past, but it was almost like to a degree, but it wasn't until I was broken before the Lord and to truly say, here is all of who I am in all honesty. That doesn't have to necessarily be for someone.
deep sin issue or some secret thing. Maybe it's just a matter of, like you alluded to earlier, an idolatry that I hold, man, a value for something in my life that is disproportionate in its position. Maybe it's me not recognizing my true value and my creation by my father. Maybe I've viewed myself in improper ways and it's limited. Maybe I do have addiction issues or maybe I do have drinking or, you know, whatever. I don't want to be prescriptive, but
The way in is to start there. And I think that the security that we find in knowing that we are his child, that we are held by him, that is what brings rest. When you don't have anxiety, you are in a rested state. Part of what can bring anxiety, even in unknowing ways, by the way, is to either consciously or subconsciously know that you're
not settled in your relationship with the Lord. And I think when you can rest in the reality that you're fully known, fully seen, that can lead to rest in your life practically. So good. I just want to say, and I'm going to look directly at the camera for this, for those of you that are watching.
You would not believe the things that have been going on in the background as CZ and I have been talking and it may not come through in the final cut, we'll see, but we've had jets and hammers and planes, just all kinds of noise happening, which I think is so interesting as we try to talk about soul rest. And so I just want to encourage you.
If you have tuned in to this podcast, there was a reason for it. If you've made it all the way to the end, there's a reason for it. And so I would encourage you to spend some time with the Lord and ask him by his spirit to reveal to you, is there a place that you want to refine in me, that you wanna meet me, that you want to speak?
peace and freedom and transparency over. And just, it's worthy, holy work to get in those conversations with the Lord. He is not a bully. He is a shepherd and he is loving in anything that he reveals. And so I would just encourage you, if you've been in this soul rest conversation, it's on purpose. And there is a place in your soul where God wants to grant you.
rest and wants you to cease striving as scripture says. So CZ, I just want to say thank you to you. You have modeled this and walked this really beautifully and it's what has made you the person people go to when they're burned out on life.
And so in that same Eugene Peterson passage, she talks about the unforced rhythms of grace, and you model that. And so I just wanna say thank you for stewarding well this work of God in your life. It's beneficial to others. I would love it if you would do what I ask all my guests to do as the closing question, which is tell us, you know...
This is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast because we believe that whatever we are walking through in our lives, good, bad, and otherwise, it is still something that in the hand of God is being made beautiful. And so if you could design your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish? And there are no restrictions on it. I often talk about if you are...
you know, gluten intolerant on earth, you don't have to be in your perfect, beautiful day. I happen to know that you have some food things that you might like to fix in your perfect, day. tell us what it would look like for you. Man, it's crazy. As soon as you start talking, it's like, man, it makes me emotional.
think my day just begins middle and ends with my family. So with my bride, I love my wife so much.
I think it's just anything, anything with her, anything with her. We were simple people. We don't like to do a lot of going out and running around. So just being home with my family just feels so perfect. I think about a beautiful day outside in the fall here in Tennessee is beautiful. I was seeing my boys play around and my little daughter.
just starting to talk and walk and experience life and man, just to be able to be next to my bride and to know that we're in love together. Man, to eat good food, you know I love to eat. It's too hard to even begin to consider what that would be to choose the menu.
But maybe all of it if it's my perfect day. I just want it all from all the places all the things some stuff from Chicago some stuff from New Orleans some stuff from back in New Jersey, but Yeah, I just think yeah food and family and and time together. I think friends somewhere along the way some sort of gathering would love to jump in the word with some folks and Like I said, it's probably not the most extravagant or exciting but yeah just that idea for me just seems like a dream and
And I long for each one of those things, including the food every day of my life. Yeah. So good. CZ, thank you. This has been a gift and I will put everything in the show notes. I want people to be able to get your book. I want them to be able to reach out to you. I would imagine there were some business leaders and ministry leaders listening who would be like, I could get some more information on the practical steps.
So yes, I'll make sure that you can get in contact with CZ. He's not a big social media guy, so you won't find him there, but his lovely bride Monique is. And so maybe you can find him that way if you don't get in touch with him through the show notes. But CZ, thank you. You're welcome. We are grateful for what you have put into the world in this concept. And it's my prayer for those of you who are listening and watching that you will spend some time.
with God because I think soul rest is absolutely one of the every things that he wants to make beautiful in my life and in yours. So thanks for being with us and we will see you soon.