Girls Who Do Stuff

Katrina is a Marketing + Business Strategy Coach for Entrepreneurs and host of the Through the Marketing Lens Podcast. We geek out about vulnerability and navigating the world of politics in marketing your business.

Show Notes

I am a marketing-led business coach. I work with creative entrepreneurs all over the place who are past that initial launch phase and that want to grow their business to new heights and marketing is my lens. I also have a podcast that is Through the Marketing Lens. Where she talks all about all things marketing. 

Basically, the reason she does what she does is that she had small businesses herself. She grew them, She was scrappy about it, and I really fell in love with marketing because it was a way to actually move her businesses forward. And that is that's where it all comes from.

We talk about Katrina's scrappiness and how she started multiple businesses. Her journey was messy but really fun. It was in this phase of growth that she fell in love with marketing.

"I think that marketing feels really hard. To a lot of people. There are so many different facets to marketing, so we tend to find someone else that's doing what we want to do, and then just copy them. And that's not always going to feel in alignment with who you are as a person." -Katrina Aronson

We talk about the importance of authenticity and vulnerability and how that should apply to your marketing. Instead of copying someone else or looking for the "best" ways to market from others in your industry or other's who are doing well, it would be wise to start with what is in alignment for you.

This led to a conversation about how companies are showing up in today's cultural climate with issues like black lives matter, backing the blue, me too, etc. 

"I think every brand. Should and can stand up for the things that they believe in. Where I think a big mistake happens is that we identify as our brands, and sometimes we're not." - Katrina

We talk about the role of politics in the marketing of businesses. 





What is Girls Who Do Stuff?

Come as you are with the courage to speak up and tell a better story. A raw and real podcast from two courageous women making an impact in their communities by helping guests share their unique stories.

Your hosts Jenny and Sarah are soul sisters with a passion for creating a space for authentic storytelling. Their guests will make you laugh, cry, and leave you with all-the-feels while you learn from thought leaders like entrepreneurs, influencers, coaches, real estate moguls, speakers, reality stars, and creative geniuses.

Hello.

Hello and welcome to the
girls who do stuff podcast.

I am Sarah Madras and I am Jenny Midgley.

And this is the show where you
come as you are with the courage to

speak up and tell a better story.

Today in the studio, while
virtually we have Katrina errands.

And she and I met in a clubhouse room
and geeked out over digital marketing.

And so we connected and said,
let's do a podcast swap.

Yes.

And here we are.

Thank you guys so much for having me.

This is so fun.

Super excited.

Yeah.

I'm not going to lie.

People tell us all the time.

They're like, that was the most
fun podcast I've ever been on.

And I'm like all the time too.

I know.

We can't guarantee much,
but we can guarantee you're

going to have a good time.

And Sarah is not as the most
modest person you've ever met.

Oh, fucking hell have fun.

All right.

We are all have fun.

All right.

Let's take our hella fundus and get
the show rolling Katrina, tell us about

yourself and what you do and your show.

And we'll just, start throwing questions.

All right.

Cool.

So I am Katrina.

I am a marketing led business coach.

I work with creative entrepreneurs
all over the place that are past

that initial launch phase and that
want to grow their business to new

Heights and marketing is my lens.

I also have a podcast which
is through the marketing lens.

And we talk all about
all things marketing.

Basically what I do, the reason
I do it is because I'm, I

had small businesses myself.

I grew them, I was scrappy about
it, and I really fell in love with

marketing because it was a way to
actually move your business forward.

And that is that's
where it all comes from.

Awesome.

Love it.

Tell our listeners what you
mean by that initial launch.

Obviously in the very, very beginning
of your business, you're going to

need to set up your LLC or however you
decide to actually get yourself set up

and you need to figure out what social
media platforms you want to be on.

And that's that kind of messy phase.

I do have a course for all of that.

Yes.

But I typically work with people
who are past that gritty phase.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Yeah, they got the.

They're the big underneath them.

They're in the growth phase.

You got it.

Love it.

So tell us about your scrappiness.

What other businesses did you start?

Yeah, we are right there.

I could see.

So I come from the corporate
world done the done.

Yeah.

And corporate finance and followed my
dream went after working in fashion.

So I left, I started taking all these
classes and started a jewelry line.

There's a lot of like pieces in between
that worked for a boutique first

learned how the whole industry worked
and then started a jewelry line and

started selling wholesale, figured out
that whole model and then realized,

Hey, I want to make more money.

I want to open a retail store as well.

Started the retail side
opened a boutique for women.

So I learned a lot of the things
about getting into community and

also wanting to sell, get big
enough that I'm selling across the

United States or even beyond that.

And I had to figure things out completely.

As I went, it was messy to say
the least, but it was really fun.

And I figured out the ways that.

I needed to lean in and what worked
for my personality, the ways I wanted

to show up and what felt really good.

And that's where I fell in
love with marketing, because

that's what marketing is.

It's about connecting in ways that
actually allow you to shine, right?

Whether that's your business or yourself.

So when you say marketing in ways that
speak to you, tell us more about that.

Yes.

So that is my jam.

I think that marketing feels really hard.

To a lot of people.

There's so many different facets
to marketing, so we tend to find

someone else that's doing what we
want to do, and then just copy them.

And that's not always going to feel in
alignment with who you are as a person.

Maybe they're really good.

Speaking in public.

And so you think that's something
that you need to do to get your

face out there while that is a
great strategy for ---------them,

it may not be for you, right?

We don't have to co
carbon copy someone else.

Who's done it before us.

We need to find the ways that
feel really good that allow.

To have conversations like this
that feel really good to you.

And to me, like I have a podcast
as well, which I mentioned, and I

do it because I freaking like it.

So it's a way where I get to show up and
shine and have authentic conversations

like this, but it took me a long time to
get to that place of, oh, I can just lean

into the things where I'm actually good.

I still get really uncomfortable by
the way, which is super important.

But once I figured out that
and I realized I don't have to.

Outsource some million dollars
worth of stuff and do everything

and be in all the platforms.

I can just lean into the places that
I'm really good and grow with that.

That's where I had a lot of aha
moments and I guess the message is.

You don't have to feel like you're
completely lost every single day.

You can feel like at least
you're being your authentic self.

And the messy is just part of the.

Gotcha.

Yep.

Oh, I love that.

And so it's funny, cause I just gave
a presentation on content marketing

this morning in another group.

And and obviously like I'm not in a group.

Why did I say that?

That was weird in a networking group.

I gave a presentation and it was, I.

We talked about marketing and whatever,
and they're at the questions at the

end, like people were asking what
is the ratio that you talk about?

Like your failures versus your successes?

Or like, how often should I, like, when
should I talk about this or whatever.

And like my response to everybody,
like the first response back was

like what's in alignment for you.

What's an alignment for you.

And they, by the end of it, I'm sensing
a pattern and I'm like, because that's

the reality is you have to start with
what is in alignment for you and your

business, and then grow from there.

Somebody was asking about I used to
stutter and I still have struggles with

the stutter and peep, and I've only,
I don't really talk about it, but I

don't, and I only talk about it when I
feel like, I, and I was like, stop right

there because it's not about feeling
like you're ready to talk about it.

It's understanding and being intentional
about sharing that story because it

will have an impact on someone else.

Yeah.

And I think that's a
huge distinction, right?

First is, what is your
intent by sharing the story?

Are you sharing it for you of like
your purge and like to fulfill a need

or is it a need or want within you?

And if that's the case, then probably
not the platform to share things because.

It, share that with your coach or
your therapist or your friends.

If you're sharing something with the
intent of, I feel like this will be

impactful for someone else because
someone else will connect with it

and they'll have takeaways and ahas
and they'll have growth from it too.

Like I've had growth
from it, then share away.

I love this.

That what came up for me.

There was maybe you guys
have read about this.

Bernay brown talks about
vulnerability, obviously a lot.

And one of her things is
you guys are laughing.

You are.

What, what is happening?

What is happening?

I'm so sorry.

And I was like, I was
trying to hold it in.

And then I saw her in the screen
and I was like, fuck, I'm done.

Sarah is a Bernay brown
certified daring way.

Facilitator.

She's been on calls with I've
gotten texts of like per day.

Just said my, oh my God, I want to be you.

I live and breathe.

The vulnerability we're like, bats are
like, And that the laughter was like

more of she gets us, she's our people.

And we're going to clue her in to the fact
that we talk about this shit all the time.

Yeah.

This is like my love language.

I'm so happy right now.

But what you just said, so I'm going to
repeat a million things that, you know,

but what you just said is that's the
lens you have to look through, right?

Yeah.

For you, are you doing this to
full, fill something in yourself

or are you doing this because it's
actually serving someone else.

That is beautiful if that's
why you're showing up.

But you know that three by three cards
that she talks about a square squad, like

that is that's another lens that I have
to explain that for our listeners who are

immersed in the Bernay world three, by the
way that I remember it is that If you are,

if there is something that you need to
share or get advice about, there is a card

that you should put inside of your wallet.

That is about three by three, which
will have all of the names of the people

that you should trust in this situation.

So those are the people.

That's your therapist, your coach,
your best friend, blah, blah, blah,

that you're going to ask or share these
intimate moments with in my worlds.

And.

I think that's really true
in this scenario, too.

If you're showing up as a thought
leader or a brand, that's not the

space where you necessarily are
going to put out your verbal vomit.

Now look, if you're an
influencer and that's your route.

Cool, cool.

But if we're talking about
as a business, that's not.

That's not where we're
showing up as leaders, right?

Yeah.

And I, what I love about that too,
to take that one, the square squad

one step further is it's also
those of the people who is opinion

and feedback you listened to.

And so it's very clear that.

You're not on my list.

And so I am not open to your influence.

Thank you.

Have a nice day and you can take
people on and off your list.

Like I have a literally because
people go through their own

experiences and I've had people very
close to me who are going through.

Lifetime evolutions.

Yes.

Things are happening.

And they're like, and I'm like, oh
we are no longer in alignment and

I have to take you off the list.

And so the things you're saying
can't influence me anymore because

they're so out of alignment.

I think that the past five years
has made a lot of people reevaluate

their three by three lists.

Yes.

Yeah.

When you say five years what is that?

Is that referring to anything
in particular or are we

thinking beyond COVID?

Are you going politics there?

I'm going entire cultural shifts.

They're like, I think that like since,
and now it's six years, cause it's 20, 21.

It's all just a fucking blur.

That, I think that we've seen I'll
even say the past decade, we've

seen a shift in so many different
things that I think is run parallel

with social media and digital space.

And the ability to call things
news that are no longer news.

When I grew up, we watched,
The news and it was people

reporting things that happened.

Or we rent, my dad reads the Washington
bows cover to cover every day.

That's oh no.

Like he, he collects like when they
go away and then they come back, like

he goes through all the, like I CA and
anyway and like that's the news, right?

Like it's not, and now
people take opinion is new.

Like it's this whole whatever.

And I think that we've seen
that and we're living in it.

We're trying to figure out how to
effectively, especially if you're an

entrepreneur or a sales professional or
business owner, whatever, like you're

trying to fit yourself in this box
where you have to present yourself a

certain way to attract the people who
you want versus before where it was

like, I'm a go to, people's drug store.

Cause that's where I've gotten my
entire life and it's up the road.

And I trust that, that, it's
no longer this like a morphous

faceless business, it's the people.

And so when you're looking at, the
past 5, 6, 10 years, it's the shift

from taking the, just like from the
a needs and wants perspective to a.

Like what feels right?

What feels good, right?

Like how do I present my,
who do I want in my circle?

Who do I want on my card?

I want to give my money to exactly.

Yeah.

And don't you think part of that
comes from the fact that everything

you're talking about in this shift
has left us like very lonely.

And so we just, we crave
connection more than anything else.

So we're looking for, are people.

Subconsciously constantly.

Yeah.

Yep.

I totally agree.

Yep.

And I think, how have you seen
marketing shift in the last.

A lot.

I think I speak a lot to working
from the local community and

growing from there, depending on
where you are in your business.

And part of the reason I do
that is because I think the

connection, if you can nail that
locally, you can grow from there.

It's so hard if you go the opposite
direction, because it's so noisy and

it's so disconnected and it's, so I
think people lose their identity because

they see what other people are doing.

So obviously now, and we might not
even mean to I try not to scroll,

but I get lost in the scroll.

And I'm like, damn, how are
they doing that so quickly?

We didn't have that before.

It was just like, The store next
to you and they seem to be doing

well, but it wasn't so obvious and
we weren't necessarily talking about

$60,000 months and I'm sure you did.

It's just competitive in a different way.

I think from a psychology perspective,
it really gets to us on every level,

like the anxiety and all of that.

It's a shame.

Yeah.

And it's it, what it leads to is
a lot of that and I see it all the

time in my photography groups and.

Like, how do you guys, what are the best?

I think that it's bread a lot of
this what are the best ways to blank?

Fill in the blank.

What are the best ways
to grow an audience?

What are the best ways
to market your business?

What what are the best
ways to run mini sessions?

What are the best way
might be different for you?

And that's the key, right?

That people are not even cognizant.

Of the way that they're asking
the question is going to screw

them from the start, right?

Because what is best for Katrina
is not going to be the best for me.

The what is the best way for me as a
certified dare to lead facilitator,

to market, to large organizations
for their leadership teams to

bring me no, take the word best.

No, take best out of it.

No, because the question is, how
should I connect with my audience?

In a way that will help
me grow my business.

Essentially we're saying no,
we're not saying the same thing.

It's amazing shape trigger,
ask you the question.

So no best for that person.

And when I say what the person who
I am as the person and what my goal

is, then yes, we can figure out the
best route from point a to point B.

That's in alignment with who I am as.

But it starts with the, how we are not, I
am, I'm going to die on that fucking hill.

I have died on that fucking hill.

We are not saying the same thing.

So I would say, how should
I, how can I approach this?

And the, in a way that's going
to help support my business.

Yes.

We're saying the same thing.

I'm just like, I'm wondering,
do you need a referee here?

Like I'm happy.

I actually ever really, I
want to take best out of it.

That's the thing I just want to
take that step and I will take

the word best out of it for you.

Like I appreciate it.

So you had another question, sorry.

I have another question in regards to
what Jenny's to Jenny's point of the shift

that's happened in the last 10 years.

From a marketing perspective, what
is your opinion on companies and how

they speak up and or how they show up
and how the, in these times, right?

The civil unrest of how many
businesses --------are speaking

up and saying what their beliefs
are, what their values are of, yes.

I back the blue and yes, I back
black lives matter and yes, I be

like, it's not a one or the other.

I can have both.

And of how are you seeing businesses
show up in the marketing space?

On those kinds of things
on those hard topics.

Yeah.

So I actually just had a conversation
about this yesterday and it's so hard.

It is so hard because we are being
asked to reveal a lot of ourselves that

we were able to keep private before.

-- And it's really a conversation.

A, what do you want from this?

Because something you mentioned before
is the way that we're showing up now

is really to attract the right people.

So do you want that for your business?

And if you're a personal brand and
you're showing up, let's say, as a

coach, then it might be beneficial
to you to actually say those things,

but with every action there's an
equal and opposite reaction, right?

We're going to probably see
a lot of pushback, but I am

all for truly people being.

And if your business is a personal
brand, that might feel like an extension

of you being real to who you are.

If there is thought and analysis that
goes into it, if you are doing this

because you feel heated in the moment.

And I do see a lot of personal brands
do that and just start sharing things.

And then it gets into this Back and
forth and lots of DMS on I'm exhausted.

And they honestly it can trigger a
lot of people and they go on these

like spirals and then they disappear
from social media for like weeks.

Yep.

So no to that.

However I think every brand.

Should and can stand up for the
things that they believe in.

If it's really strong for their
brand, where I think a big mistake

happens is that we identify as our
brands and sometimes we're not right.

So that's a little bit confusing, but
if you are selling photography, w you're

selling photography lessons and you don't
really care who you're working with.

You're not necessarily your
brand, you're showing up as a

filtered version of your brands.

So your feelings don't have to be in it.

Do I have very strong opinions?

Yes.

And if you are my friend, you
better freaking believe you're

going to know all the things, but.

I don't show up in my brand that way.

I talk about the things
that matter in marketing.

I talk about how to get
a little bit more clear.

I talk about your client.

I don't talk about the politics and stuff.

It doesn't mean I don't care.

I'd love to hear what you guys think
about that I'm super interested.

So there's two things.

Number one, I say all the
time to my clients, you can

be personal without getting.

You don't have to sacrifice
your privacy to get personal.

However you want to phrase it.

Number one.

So that's one thing that I remind
people of frequently, right?

Like you can just get personal by
talking about your day or talking

about your kids or your animals or
your partner, your daily, whatever.

Like you can, there are ways that you
can tie in those personal elements so

that you can create those connections
and attract the right people.

That's number one, number two.

I think that there's a big difference.

When you are a filtered version of
your brand, when you ha when you

can present yourself in a space
like that, versus when if you are a.

Coach, or, and I have conversations
with Scott Moore about this

all the time, because he's a
transitional business coach.

And his thing is I don't want
to work with people who are not

aligned with my own core personal
values because we get intimate.

You know what I mean?

Like he has people that work
with him for three, five years,

on an ongoing basis where.

Shit's going to come up.

And when you work with somebody on
that intimate level that you want them

to be in alignment with what your own
personal core values are, and you may

not want to, and you have to be okay
with saying no to those people, right?

Like I could teach photography and.

I could take somebody's picture regardless
of what their personal beliefs are.

But if I'm going to KKK member
was like, take my picture.

I'm going to say no, thank you.

So I was like,

hold on.

It says but right.

So if somebody approached me
and was like, like somebody can

just schedule a studio head.

And I can take their
picture and I don't have to.

And it's, it is what it is because
those are the quickie minis, whatever.

But if somebody hires me to do
branding for them, like I'm to look

them up and I'm going to T and I'm
going to have a conversation with

them and determine if we're a good
fit, because my, y'all have met me.

I have trouble with filters

and that, but that's part of who I am.

And I will say if you're racist
or intolerant or prejudiced or

whatever I may not be the best
photographer for you because.

I get real with people.

I create intimate connections
with people because connection

is one of my core values.

And I want to support
that through my business.

I want my business to
support that through me.

So it's, when you said that it made
me think of a recent interaction

with the business that I was working
in and I, because I work with teams

and so they're looking at me and
they're like what do you think?

Wouldn't you feel this way?

And I was like, it doesn't
really matter what I think.

Or if I would feel that way,
because I don't work here.

It's it matters what you think and
what the culture is like for you.

And I was like an obviously
if you're looking at me going

well, what do you think?

Don't you think that this isn't, it
means that you think something is wrong

with the culture that's happening here.

So that is valid.

Like you don't need me to agree
with you in order for your point

of view, to be valid in order for
your experience to be valid, right.

And in order for your feelings to be
valid, because we know that feelings

are neither good, nor bad, they just
are every show I got to get into.

Once I had a question, because I think
this is fascinating as the list of.

As we get further and further
polarized as a country, the list

of things that like our common
sense, like I'm not going to take a

headshot of the guy in the KKK hood.

I think that's like a pretty broad amount
of people are going to be down with that.

But there's this growing divide
from Republican to Democrat.

Yeah.

Do you guys see it starting to come in?

Like I can't work with somebody who
has different political beliefs.

Yeah.

I see it.

And I like for me, and let's just
take right where we are right now.

This is being recorded in August of 2021.

And we said 20, 20, what the fuck?

Cause it's a blur, right?

So we're in now we're past just
playing COVID and we're now into

the Delta variant and I will.

I have made it a point and I have
been, quietly vocal about it, but I

won't I don't want to hang out with
you unless I know your vaccinations.

And I, if I, even if I do know
your vaccination status, if

you're not in my bubble, I don't
want to be endorsed with you.

I still want to be outside with you.

I know your bank card, my
card, I know your vaccinations.

Because I like, I have children who
cannot be vaccinated and I have family

members, like my mom's making us go get
COVID tests before we finish Domingo.

She asked us to, and I'm happy
to make that concession, but I

think that's a really easy way to
illustrate this is where we're at.

What are your thoughts?

Yeah, no, I'm with you.

I'm seeing that.

So I'm in Florida.

Yeah, what it is, where
it is like the fake south.

I don't know what Florida is, but
it's not, it's a very confused place.

Is what at what part?

Where are you at in Florida?

Cause I'm from.

So I'm, I am in Jupiter, which
is like right by Palm beach area.

So I feel this is a
very 50, 50 split area.

And if I was like watching this from
outer space, it would be fun, but to be

in it is but it's an experiment, right?

That's what it feels like to me.

What's going to go down.

It's a great word.

And we're watching it from outer
space because we're not in Florida.

And so we're all going yeah, we're
the ones who's outer space though.

This is weird.

Like it's just weird.

And I look at it and I'm like, because
it's somebody who believes in science

and understands how viruses work.

And I just have a cursory, like I worked
in hospitals, so like, when I was pregnant

with my kids, I wouldn't go into the
rooms where the patients had C diff

because of the risk factor to me, even if
I was masked because of the way that the

spores live on surfaces, like it's all
thing, but it's just that level of, and

I have like the basic knowledge, right?

Like I'm not a doctor,
I'm not a scientist.

I have basic knowledge and I understand
that I'm going, I can protect myself

and my family by taking the magic shot
and nowhere else in this universe.

Can you just be like, boop, I'm going
to stab you in the arm and you're

going to prevent you from dying.

Vaccines are the only
thing that does that.

So for me, it's very confusing.

It's very hard.

And I make it known because you just did.

Yeah.

I was like, so her marketing
is essentially we have a

masked mandate again here.

So I had two clients come in
yesterday and I was like, I left.

I went to go get lunch yesterday.

And the care in our town here,
the mass mandate went in at

five o'clock on Wednesday.

I went into a restaurant nearby
to go grab a salad yesterday.

None of the staff were wearing masks.

I turned around and walked out and
I was like, screw y'all like Ru no.

Don't breathe on my food.

I wear a mask during a 60 minute workout
class that I did with my wife and about

20 minutes in and it healed itself.

And I was like, like hiding and
like grabbing air real quick.

And I, yeah, I wear a mask yesterday
when clients came in, because I

was like, I'm going to protect
do my best because I don't know.

It's it's so crazy.

It's honestly though, like the mask.

I think this is like a beautiful way
to see how people react to certain

things, because we're talking about are
people separating Democrat, Republican?

I actually don't, I can
work with Republicans,

right.

I really don't.

I don't know if you're a Democrat
Republican, but if you are not

respectful enough of me and my children.

And then I network with you, right?

So like different than what are
you like, I can make assumptions,

but I don't actually know, but an
intentional pillar in what I do is

that I share pictures of my kids
and they happen to be wearing masks.

So you best believe that
people are going to recognize.

So it's it's more of a
subtle undertone, but.

Yep.

And that's what we, like last summer
when I like we'll put graphics on

the girls who do stuff page, so of we
believe black lives matters, sciences,

water is life, all, no human is illegal.

Like we'll put those things out there
because it is, it's a subtle way to be.

We are, that's not subtle.

It's subtle.

It's not no, I'm like, I was
like, I want to hear other subtle

ways that you're doing that.

That was so interesting to me.

Tell me other ways that you do
that, please don't think like the

social media graphics are subtle.

No, I love that though.

I think maybe that's
just a Testament to how.

Strongly you feel about, or like the
extreme measures, the fact that you're

getting out there and saying I want to
know your vaccine, DEC vaccine status that

black lives matter seems small to you.

But I, I hear you so other
ways I think it's a lot to do

with who you are aligning with.

So a lot of collaborations, if
you're really intentionally putting

yourself in alignment with people
who are very vocal that's a nice way.

Cause you're going to weed people
out, people go down that rabbit

hole, they're going to say who
would, did she just do that with?

And then they're going to see
that person is very this way.

And it's a, it's an
immediate unfollow for me.

If you're aligning yourself with someone
who is completely out of alignment

with my views, does that make sense?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But now I'm like, oh crap, because I just
agreed to be on a guest, non lady show,

but I didn't look to see what her freaking
values and views about relationships

and connection will be on your show.

But this is like this, so speaks to how.

Sarah and I are when it comes to the
digital space, because immediately

I go, I don't even go to LinkedIn
cause I don't want you to see

that I've looked at your profile.

I'm going to look at Facebook first.

I'm going to check out on Instagram.

I'm going to see what your,
what Google says about you.

I'm going to do like that whole
rabbit hole and I'm going to go do

my research and, dig my way out.

And then.

And that's as we're talking and then
I'll either say yeah, this is great.

I think this is amazing.

This would be a great collaboration
or Hey, you know what?

I don't really have the
bandwidth for this right now,

but can I get back to you later?

But I do the same thing with people who
approached me to be guests on the show.

I'm like, Hey, here's
our guest questionnaire.

You fill out an application
so that we can vet them.

But then you're just
like, we made connection.

Let's do it.

But I only worked turned to me
for my brain to go that far until.

Can you also like maybe not market it as
if you went on her show and you realize.

Super out of alignment.

I just wouldn't blow up the
fact that you were on her show.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

Cause that happened here where Jenny
brought on some chick and I was see

thing in the studio when this thing.

Thank God.

She was virtual because I'm sitting here
and I'm like feeling the blood boiling

and all the pages, Jenny, but somebody
recommended her for the show and she

seemed nice when I met with her and
she was in alignment for the most part.

It wasn't until she got deep in
the weeds that I was like, oh fuck.

But, and so I literally was just
it got to a point in the show.

I just have to be quiet because nothing
positive is going to come out of my mouth.

And so I just stopped talking.

I never shared the episode.

I never talk about the episode.

I'm like, that didn't happen.

I haven't, I blocked out.

So I appreciate yup.

Yup.

Yeah, for sure.

Or, when you were saying
other subtle ways, I think a

great way on that same thing.

If you do.

And I do this all the time sharing content
from other people that they're obviously

this way, so I'm not the one saying it.

But I'm sharing something that you guys
put out that was like black lives matter.

Yeah.

So it just, it and believe me,
those people who are out of

alignment with that, they unfollow.

Yep.

Are you guys worried
that this might go to.

I'm trying to think of I was
raised I wasn't raised, but I

went to church and then I got over
the religious on my own accord.

And there were some things that
I had to unlearn that I did

incorrectly when I was younger.

One of those things was like, I
couldn't be seen associating with

something that was bad because of.

It was saying that I agreed with it.

So like in that extreme case, like
I couldn't go see a movie where

somebody had a drink, because
then I'm saying drinking is okay.

And movies are just supporting Hollywood
and their views don't match with my views.

I can't even go to the movie.

You guys think that this is
going to spiral out of control?

I don't because I want to lean
into the things I don't know.

So I'm like, talk to me more, tell
me more, help me understand just at

the beach for family vacation or if
you're not having them on a guess.

Cause they're not.

But I would still have him on as a
guest because I want to understand more.

There's a difference between like
overtly having, or having an overt

conversation about that challenges,
your beliefs and things like that.

Like we, that's what the whole
premise of American history X, right?

Like how, and all of the, how do
you unlearn those things, right?

How do you recognize that,
there's other ways of being.

And th and there's other ways of
being there's other ways of learning.

There's other viewpoints and it's, so
to me, it's not a good, bad, right?

Wrong all, nothing.

I just if you have a different
viewpoint, I want to understand you.

I want to understand where
your viewpoint comes from.

Why is that your experience?

I want to understand you
your heart, your soul.

And but you have to be able to
have a connection with that person

first, before you're willing.

To do that.

You know what I mean?

There are people that I just,
I've probably written off just

because like on the surface, it's
you don't represent my values.

I don't like what you're saying.

I don't like how you're
presenting your business.

I don't want to lean in more.

I'm like split.

I don't know.

There has to be like, I have to
know that there's going to be

something redeeming about you.

Great.

So where are you at?

I'm like, I'm trying to circle it back
to, and then it was so interesting.

So I I this made me
think of this commercial.

I don't know if you guys remember
this, but there was like a

commercial where people got together.

They didn't know each other's
views on anything and they

built Ikea furniture and.

So they had to go through this
like crazy experience together.

And then they sat them down and said, You
believe in this and you believe in this.

And they were able to have a
really open discussion cause

they already liked each other.

You already went through
something together.

So I do feel very
connected to what you said.

If I meet someone and I don't know that
they are out of alignment with me, then

I am very open to have conversations.

However, if I meet someone.

And immediately it is that I shut down.

Yeah.

Yep.

Unfortunately, I wish I was bigger than
that, but I'm just, I think that it

was really interesting was it's making
me think of Ali Velshi did a series

on MSNBC where he like, literally,
like you went around the country and

sat down people who believe different
things and created this opportunity

for those conversations to happen.

And it was very interesting to watch.

I think watching those focus
groups play out is it brings

compassion instead of hate.

You can still disagree, but instead of
it being hate, you can have compassion.

And I think that.

I think where there's room
for growth and learning.

And this is why I don't think it can.

There, there are going to
be extremes on either end.

Yes, it can go too far.

But I think as a whole, it's not
going to go to answer Joe's question.

I don't think it's going to go
too far because I think there will

always be these opportunities for
growth and compassion and empathy.

If you're willing.

To bring Sarah in

you see what I just did there?

I see what you just did there page
out of her marketing strategy.

That was not subtle.

That was, I thought that was brilliant.

Brilliant marketing is being
connected and compassion.

And you're just trying to
connect with the people that.

In alignment with your brand.

So all, it is a beautiful thing.

If you let it not feel so salesy, right?

Like yucky.

Yeah, absolutely.

Love it.

All right.

So Katrina tell our listeners
where they can find you and your.

I live on Instagram, Katrina, Aronson,
underscore consulting, and there's all

the things about what we've talked about.

Connection and marketing and
tons of resources there to

get really clear for you.

Fantastic.

The podcast is tagged on there?

It's through the marketing lens