Don't Get Burned: The Insurance Playbook for Firefighters

In today’s episode, Jon and Louie tackle the world of insurance and why having the right coverage can save your financial future. From life insurance to disability coverage, they break down the policies you actually need without putting you to sleep faster than the annual HIPPA training.

Great Colorado Payback: https://unclaimedproperty.colorado.gov/

FPPA Death and Disability: https://www.fppaco.org/files/789282a21/SWDD-Brochure.pdf

What is Fiscal Firehouse?

Come join a groundbreaking new podcast that promises to change the way you think, the way you live, and the way you manage your future. Grab a cup of coffee, a 6mg Zyn, some noise-canceling headphones, and get lost in the world of the Fiscal Firehouse. With your co-host Jon Beattie and Louie Barela, the Fiscal Firehouse is your guide to financial freedom. Tailored to union firefighters, we will discuss problems, solutions, and benefits that are unique to our profession. Change your finances, change your life at the Fiscal Firehouse. Brought to you by Local 1309.

Welcome to the Fiscal Firehouse,
a podcast dedicated to promoting

financial literacy to firefighters.

I'm your co-host, John Beatty, executive
board member of Local 1309, a lieutenant,

and also a certified financial planner.

With me, I have the other
co-host of the Fiscal Firehouse.

Louie Barela, executive board member
of Local 1309, ambulance driver,

and wannabe financial expert.

Together, John and I hope to bring
clarity to the world of personal finance,

specifically relating to firefighters.

Firefighting is a difficult job.

Making sound financial
decisions shouldn't be.

Welcome back to the
Fiscal Firehouse podcast.

The only place where talking
about insurance is somehow more

exciting than a 2:00 AM lift assist.

In today's episode, John and Louis
tackle the world of insurance and

why having the right coverage can
help save your financial future.

From life insurance to disability
coverage, they break down the policies you

actually need without putting you to sleep
faster than the annual HIPAA training.

So grab your headphones, check your
deductibles, and let's roll into another

recording of the Fiscal Firehouse.

Jon: Welcome back to
the "Fiscal Firehouse."

I'm your co-host, John Beatty.

With me across the table, it's
a little bit later tonight.

I know you guys won't know
that, Louis is drinking a beer.

Yep.

But it's not 7:00 AM.

No.

Or 9:00 AM, this time.

Yeah, no, we're doing a PM sesh,
to get this in before, I get to go

on a little hiatus and a vacation.

So we wanted to keep up
with our monthly drops.

so we're gonna bring one to
you live, on the PM session.

All right.

So, what else is going
on in your world, Louis?

Louie: Not much.

We're gonna go on vacation too.

We're gonna do a little
camping trip with the boys.

Ooh.

So- All

Jon: Where are you guys going camping?

Louie: going camping.

We are going outside of Glenwood Springs.

Jon: Yeah.

My stomping grounds right there, brother.

Louie: Oh, hell yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Hell yeah.

So there's a state park, there's
a couple state parks just

northwest of Glenwood Springs.

Okay.

Okay.

Jon: Okay.

and

Louie: and it's called something Falls.

I'm totally blanking right now.

Jon: Something Falls northwest of Glenwood

Louie: Springs.

Yeah.

And it's like a state park.

Okay.

It's supposed to be
really nice, really cool.

Kind of an easy

Jon: like Rifle Falls.

Louie: Yeah, it is Rifle Falls.

Oh.

That's it.

That's it.

Okay.

Rifle Falls.

All right.

So, I've never been there, but we're
gonna go check it out, and then spend

a night in Glenwood after camping
in a tent for a couple nights.

Jon: go do the, go do a soak.

You gonna go to the hot

Louie: I think so.

I'm gonna need

Jon: yeah.

You're gonna need some soaking.

Louie: yeah.

I think the boys'll think that's fun.

Jon: Yeah.

Well, we'll have to, we'll
have to chat offline.

That was my old stomping grounds.

That's actually where I
graduated from high school.

I was a Rifle Bear.

Louie: I know that.

And

Jon: that's where my, sister
and my dad still live in Rifle.

So, oh, yeah.

That's actually where I got a start in
the FD was, on Glenwood Springs Fire.

I think I was the tender age of 21.

So, shout out to all my
fellas back on the West Slope.

Yep,

Louie: All our- West slope ... all
our, all our listeners on the-

All,

Jon: all our listeners on
the West Slopers out there.

There's gotta at least be one, maybe two.

We'll see.

But, dude, that's...

Are you guys, tent campers?

You gonna do a little,

Louie: Yeah.

We're not, we don't have RVs.

We don't have campers.

Okay.

Jon: Real camping.

Louie: Well,

Caitlin and I are backpackers.

Oh, nice.

So we love backpacking.

That's how, before we had
kids, that's all we did.

in fact, our last backpacking
trip was when she was, like,

seven months pregnant with Bruce.

We rented, Coop's llamas.

Yeah ... this guy who, who raises
llamas in our department, rented

llamas from him and we went
llama packing, and that was- Oh,

Jon: Oh, fun.

Louie: Yeah, that was really great.

So that was our last backpacking trip,
and now we're, like, getting back into

camping 'cause the boys are old enough.

Sure But we can't do
backpacking with them.

They're just too young for that.

So we're like, "Let's start
some tent camping and get them

used to it and stuff like that."

So we're excited to kind of expose
them to that world and something

that we're really passionate about.

We're not good back- or we're not good
tent campers or, like, car campers- Mm

because we don't have any of that stuff.

All of our stuff is lightweight,
minimalistic- Yeah ... backpacker stuff,

so we don't have all the cool toys that,
that tent campers, car campers have and

we're now trying to figure out, like- Yes
... this is a little sparse for three kids.

We better bring some, some extra gear.

Jon: Yeah, you can get, I mean,
overrun with the gear on camping.

I mean, it's, sky's the limit as far as
what you wanna get, what you wanna bring,

and, and everything else like that.

Well, you're a brave soul.

So when are you gonna go here,
in the next couple weeks?

Louie: after next set.

Okay.

So I think I get off Saturday
and we're leaving Sunday.

Okay.

Jon: Okay.

Well, my suggestion to you is bundle
up, 'cause there's a good chance

it could actually snow up there.

Okay.

'cause you're at over 7,500 feet up

Louie: Yeah.

But-

Jon: it's beautiful.

You're gonna love it.

Yeah.

Louie: yeah.

It's really nice.

We'll bring all of our cold
weather gear and see what

Jon: bundle up as, as the Barelas do.

Louie: it ... if we have to go
do an extra night in Glenwood

Springs 'cause we get snowed out,
that's not the end of the world.

Yeah.

We can handle that.

Jon: I'm down for that.

Well, you can go stay on the
old Beatty Ranch over there and,

they'll put you up for a night.

Louie: heck yeah.

There we go.

Yeah.

I'll have to get that contact

Jon: There you go.

There you go.

It's a small world after all.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

The, this, this week, this last
couple weeks have just been flying by.

The kids are getting
done with school here.

And dude, I don't remember this.

Obviously, you don't, I don't remember
much about elementary school, but,

like, literally the last two or
three weeks, they don't do jack shit.

Like, they just play party after party.

Like- Right ... I'm like, "If that's
the case, why don't we start school,

like, after September, after Labor Day,
and then get out before Memorial Day?"

But dude

Louie: yeah ... Bruce, my five-year-old,
told me that for the last two days,

'cause his last day is tomorrow- Yeah
... he's been cleaning the classrooms.

Like, "We were cleaning the carpet today-

Jon: Oh, good for them.

Wiping the

Louie: And I'm like, "Oh, I see
what these teachers are doing."

Yeah.

They're like, "This is what we're gonna
spend our last week doing is getting

some free labor out of you kids."

Jon: dude, there's
nothing wrong with that.

It's like being back in
the academy all over again.

You're done,

Louie: You clean ... it's for
clean- Clean at the end of the

day and get ready, man ... for

Jon: right.

Well, there's something
to be said for that.

But no, shout out to, all
the teachers out there.

I definitely could not do what
you guys do, with the kiddos.

There's no way.

Louie: rather run into a burning building.

Yes.

I would much rather run into a burning
building, or deal with a very terrible

EMS patient than- Yes ... be a teacher.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, that's a hard job.

Jon: That is a hard job.

Speaking of hard jobs,
today this is a hard job.

Louis and I, this is a tough topic
we're gonna talk about, not because

it's, like, emotionally tough or
psychologically tough, it's just dry.

We're gonna, we're gonna delve into
the world of insurance, and really

just do some high-level stuff on this.

Honestly, some of this was
kinda self-serving for me.

I'm going through a homeowner's renewal
process and got really frustrated with

just the cost of premiums going up.

and I thought it was a good talking point.

I know around the kitchen
table, this is a topic that gets

brought up by a lot of our folks.

so we're gonna just give you guys
some tips and tricks and strategies

when we're talking about insurance.

so nonetheless, we'll,
we'll kinda get into it.

But yeah, we'll try to make this,
as Louis and I do, as painless as

possible, just kinda go high level on
some of this stuff and give you the

"Reader's Digest" note, version of it.

I'll be honest with you, in my coursework,
this was the topic that I cared about

the least or had the least amount of
interest in, just because it's so nuanced.

Like, you get into these
people that sell insurance, and

what, what's the old saying?

No one ever goes in to buy
insurance, they're sold

Louie: Yes, exactly.

Jon: know?

And it's because it's one of those
things that gets very convoluted.

It's written by a bunch of attorneys,
and just the structure and the vocabulary

and everything else that goes with it.

So we'll try to keep things, very
simplistic and demystify some of these

Louie: things.

But- And, and we'll just give you our
opinions- Yeah ... on how it works.

That being said, please, if you are a
coffee user, please go grab some coffee.

Put this on pause, grab some coffee,
extra large coffee, pop it in and just

try to get something to wake you up- Yeah

because we get that this is not the
most exciting topic we've ever covered.

And it's already, it's a financial
podcast, so it's not like we're

knocking down the door talking about-
Topical shit ... UFOs and time travel

and all kinds of other crazy shit.

So we get

Jon: it.

Yeah, we do

Louie: But it's important.

It's important in your financial journey.

Jon: Yeah.

But, I'm gonna do a quick plug 'cause
we haven't done this for a while, but

it actually happened in my family.

so I was talking to my sister and she's
like, "Hey, did you know that, mom's got

some money left over from the state or
some of these other corporations that

owned her-- o- owed her some money?"

So I know Louie and I, when we first
talked on the pod, we talked about in

Colorado they have something called the
Great Colorado Give Back or Payback.

Payback.

Payback, sorry, not give back, payback.

But basically it's a state-run website,
because the state is required to hold,

assets that are owed to you indefinitely.

So when, people pass away or they
can't find people to give the money

to, the ba- the state basically
holds it in trust, if you will,

until someone rightfully claims that

Louie: that property.

Jon: so my sister got wind of that, so
she started claiming some of her money,

but she was looking at my mom's, estate.

And my mom, God bless her, she's
been passed away for 13 years.

Well, she's got like three grand left
in her account, in her estate, so my

dad's gonna be three grand richer.

So for the Colorado
listeners, the Great Colorado

Louie: payback.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

and

Jon: I'm sure every state
has something like that.

So if you're living in California or
Washington or Texas or anywhere else that

we know we've got some listeners, if you
Google that, it's literally, I wouldn't

say free money 'cause it's money that's
owed to you, but, go ahead and claim that.

So there's your pearls of wisdom

Louie: We- we had a lot of guys that had a

Jon: Yeah, I got- Oh,

Louie: of money the last

Jon: I remember, w- who was it?

Who was the winner?

Did Reid get something?

Was he a couple

Louie: dollars?

Yeah, Reid,

Jon: There was someone-

Louie: Mulcahy got something.

They got

some, they

Jon: got some serious coin out of

Louie: I don't remember who it was.

It wasn't either of those.

There was another person who
had got a lot of money back.

Yeah.

Thousands and thousands of dollars.

So- Yeah ... yeah.

Whoever that was, we're
still waiting for a, a beer.

Still waiting for

Jon: something.

We're still waiting for something.

But nonetheless, it's definitely worth
it, and we'll put something in the,

show notes so you can click on that.

All right.

So let's talk insurance.

But why is this important for us?

Why should we care about insurance, Louie?

What's the purpose of insurance?

To just make people that
sell insurance rich?

Louie: I, you know, it's, it probably is,

Jon: To some degree.

Louie: serves as that purpose.

But at the end of the day, I think
the way to look at insurance,

and this should be all in types
of insurance, whether we're...

And we'll talk about all these,
health insurance, car insurance-

Yeah ... life insurance.

The idea of insurance is it protects
you and your assets from major

setbacks and even financial ruin.

So you're basically buying coverage for
something that you could not afford to

eat if it, if, if it happens to you.

Right.

health insurance is really expensive.

If something happens to you, you don't
wanna pay out-of-pocket for all of

that, so you buy this protection policy
called insurance, and it covers you

in the event that you have something
bad that happens to your health.

That's, in a nutshell, what insurance is.

Jon: is That's exactly it.

So it's not, shouldn't be considered
something that's used for, an investment,

although, you know, when you get into
things like life insurance and whole

life and universal life, they'll talk
about how it's like an investment asset.

But I would consider the majority
of e- insurance when we're talking

about it really is, it's that
concept of risk transfer, right?

Where you can't self-fund something
if something catastrophic happens

where you just don't have this pool
of cash that you can pay for it.

So you pool with a bunch of individuals,
and then the insurance company shares

that risks, and it makes it a little
bit more affordable for everyone

else to have protection and coverage.

So it protects your net worth.

and really you would think firefighters
in general would have a really good

understanding of what it means to be, you
know, to do like proper risk management.

Like we make that decision
every day on the job, right?

Whether- We

Louie: to save a lot.

Yeah.

Risk a lot- Risk a little, save a little

Jon: all of those things.

So we should be really
good at calculating risk.

But unfortunately, I think a lot of
the stuff, and once again, I think

I don't blame our folks, I blame
the insurance industry in general

for just making this convoluted.

But, when I talk to a lot of our
people, I find that in a lot of cases

they're really under-insured in a
lot of these categories and cases.

So we'll talk about some of those.

So, you know, it really does protect you
from high-cost, low-probability risk.

So you think about something like a
house fire, obviously a death, dis-

disability, and then obviously something
that we run into all the time is medical

problems, emergencies, stuff like that.

So a lot of different types of insurance.

I don't know, I never did the research
on this, but I'm curious to find

out like who was the first insurer.

You know, it probably goes way back
to like the Romans or whatever.

Do you know this offhand?

I

Louie: I don't know it off the
top of my head, but I know that

an early form of fire insurance

Jon: Oh, yeah

or like

Louie: insurance was, was a policy
you could basically buy- Yep in Rome,

and if your house caught on fire,
they would send the fire brigade

to put out the fire at your house.

But if you didn't have that
insurance, if you didn't buy into

it, they would just let it burn,

Jon: Yep.

Sorry, man.

Should've had, should've paid the piper.

Louie: Yeah, yeah.

So I don't know if that was the first one.

That'd be a great idea to kind of
figure out the start of insurance.

I, I'm not gonna look into it,
but- ... if you wanna look into it

and tell me, I'd love to hear about

Jon: That'd be a great trivia question for
Louie and I if you, catch us out there.

So, let's start with, with the one that
people definitely interact with the

most on sometimes even a daily basis.

and this is something that we
think about a lot when we're

thinking about, retirement.

You know, this is something that is
really near and dear to our hearts, and

this is something that has really divided
our society and our country, but that's

this concept of health insurance, right?

Like I said, everyone listening to this
podcast definitely has a better grasp

of health insurance probably than any
other insurance that they're gonna

interact with, in their whole life.

because, A, you use it the
most, but B, man, this is one

that really confuses people.

Even people in the industry have a
really tough time, going to a doctor's

office and explaining their health
insurance and how much is this gonna

cost and, and they can't tell you.

Yeah.

Because it's gotta go through all
these different codings and what gets

qualified, what doesn't get qualified.

It is, so messy.

Louie: the terms that they use for
it, I, I mean, there's so many things

to know, and they just make it so
convoluted and difficult to understand.

You have your premiums, you
have your deductible, you

have your out-of-pocket max,

Jon: Yep.

In-network, out-of-network.

Yeah, exactly.

All the

Louie: the things.

And, and, and the truth is, you kinda
hit on this, John, is it, the reason why

probably most people are familiar with it
versus other forms of insurance is because

it is the most important type of insurance
for most firefighters to have, regardless

of age, regardless of how healthy you
are, regardless of whether or not you have

children or whether or not you're married.

Health insurance is big.

You will have some kind of-
Yes ... medical emergency or you

will need some kind of medical
care, and if you don't have health

insurance, it's a very, very bad thing.

It's a huge, you know, political
debate in our country, and our

country's broken, quite frankly.

Yeah.

And I, you know, we're not here to
talk about how to fix it, 'cause we

don't, we don't know how to fix it.

I mean, that's way beyond our pay grade.

And so you'll hear the, the, you know,
opinions on it will run the gamut, and

we don't really know about those higher
level discussions, but we just wanna

kinda talk to you about the fundamentals
of why you need health insurance and

why it's important and what to look for.

Yeah.

yeah.

Jon: And that's definitely something
that, like I said, most of you guys are

gonna be more familiar with this than
any of the other subjects or topics

that we're gonna talk about today.

So, you know, when you're thinking
about insurance, there's typically

multiple levels of insurance, From
health insurance that you can get

different levels and coverages and
deductibles and everything else like that.

How do you think people should think
about what makes the most sense for

them when they're thinking about,
you know, should I go with a...

You know, and sometimes they
do like different colors

like silver, gold, bronze.

Sometimes, like in our organization,
there's different levels like n-numerical

values that typically, give you
higher coverage, but it comes with

a higher premium, stuff like that.

How do you think people
should think about that?

'Cause I don't know.

I honestly don't know how
they come to those decisions.

Yeah.

Louie: We...

You know, I, I would say most people
need to- try to look at what they have

planned for the for the coming year-
Sure ... before they make their decision.

Yep.

And then-

Jon: knowing things
that you're gonna have.

So let's say you're gonna have a
child, you know for sure, dude,

you're gonna be spending some coin.

Yeah, I

Louie: You're gonna blow
out that deductible.

Yeah, no

Jon: approach.

No problem.

Maybe you

Louie: maybe you shouldn't be on
the high deductible health plan.

Sure.

and if you have kids, and they're, you
know, you have three boys, let's say,

just hypothetical, and they're always
jumping off couches and running downstairs

and stuff like that, maybe a high
deductible health plan is not the best.

If you're a young, healthy 24-year-old
single firefighter, well then, and you

only go to the doctor once a year for
a checkup, then maybe a high deductible

health plan or a higher deductible
health plan is really appropriate

for you, and you can save the money
on your monthly premiums that way.

So I'd consider, like, what
your medical needs are- Yeah

that you can predict.

but at the end of the day, the
most important thing is you

gotta have some kind of coverage.

You do.

You, you cannot under any
circumstance just choose the

cheapest option or choose no option.

y- that is a, that is a huge mistake,
and you will, potentially lead to

financial ruin if something major happens.

A hospital stay can cost
over $100,000 easily.

Like, that's not even a
huge kick in the teeth.

Like, it, it can go way up from there.

But $100,000 to stay in the hospital for
a couple nights because some emergency

happens or some unforeseen, diagnosis
comes down your way, and y- I mean, that,

think about how much that'll set you back
in your road to financial independence.

Yeah.

I

Jon: Yeah.

No, from a, from a personal anecdote, and
this is, and this is the number one reason

that people declare bankruptcy in this
country is for medical debt, hands down.

but I remember, Man, it's been, what?

Probably 14, 15 years now.

my mom was a, self-employed.

She owned her own company.

She was a, a CPA.

She was an accountant.

and she was, what?

59, 60.

And man, she was, she had to pay
for her own insurance, right?

'Cause she couldn't get
it through an employer.

And I remember her talking about
just how expensive her premiums

were, and it was something like...

And once again, this is,
you know, 15 years ago.

It was like 1,500, $1,800 per month
she was paying for her insurance.

And she's like, "This is ridiculous.

This is costing me, you know, almost,
you know, $20,000, $22,000 a year."

So she was about 30 days, from basically
just going without insurance, just being

like, "Dude, I just can't do this."

Well, about 20 days into this,
before she was about ready to

cancel her coverage, she started
getting these, heart palpitations.

went and saw the doctor, ended up
getting diagnosed with lung cancer.

but I remember for those two years that
my mother was still alive while she was

undergoing her, her chemo treatments
and radiations, I mean, it would've

been $2 million, probably a million
and a half dollars she ended up...

over those 24 months.

it would've been catastrophic.

It would've bankrupted my parents.

so it just goes to show you,
it's just one of those things.

You cannot take that kind of risk.

unless you've got $100 million in
the bank, then sure, you can probably

self-fund some of this stuff.

But for the people that are listening
to this podcast, the people that

we work with, there's just no
way that you can go without that.

And the other thing is, like, this is
one of those things that honestly, from

the union aspect of it, this is one of
the things that we're always looking

at from a benefit standpoint, because
it's, this is one of those things from

a negotiation strategy and tactics.

having good health insurance is
super important for the membership

because like I said, they're gonna
interact with this every day,

Louie: so.

Yeah.

And, and, you know, u- unions have
fought hard- Yeah ... to make health

insurance a part of your package,
es- especially as a firefighter.

Like, we can tell you that the local,
the local unions, the international-

Yeah ... has worked really, really hard
to make subsidized health insurance a

cornerstone of the pay package or the
compensation package for firefighters.

And because of that, we view
this as a non-negotiable.

If you are a firefighter in the CPFF in
Colorado, let's say, and probably almost

nationwide, you probably get some kind
of subsidized health insurance through

your employer, which means that they
will pay part of your monthly premiums,

and then you'll pay a much, much smaller
portion of your monthly premiums.

You gotta take advantage of that.

That, like I just said, that is a
non-negotiable, and it will prevent

you from bankruptcy and financial
ruin in the event that something

major happens to your health.

Jon: And this is one that really does give
people a lot of sticker shock, I'll be

honest with you, when they get ready for
retirement and they start to realize how

much it costs to go out on their own and

Louie: no longer,

Jon: and no longer have that subsidy.

I know around here when you're, you
know, it's costing you, depending on

whether you're single or you're family,
you know, somewhere between, you know,

$200 to $500 per month you're paying.

You're like, "Man, that's a lot
of money," but our employer's

picking up 80% of that, right?

We're only paying 20%.

So all of a sudden you leave here and
you still got dependents, you're like,

"Ooh man, that's a lot of money," you're
gonna be doling out for insurance.

just things to consider, as
you get ready for retirement.

And luckily a lot of organizations
and locals have, once again in

their collective bargaining, have
negotiated for retiree health plans

or savings accounts, and there's a lot
of different ways to skin that cat.

So, having some type of retiree health
insurance or some type of subsidy

or savings plan is really gonna give
those folks r- that are getting ready

to retire or even those people getting
hired right now a huge leg up as they

get ready to transition to retirement to
have that pool of money to choose from.

So super cool on that.

But we could do a whole episode just
on health insurance, and honestly,

this is one that I get asked a lot.

so I think, as we kinda transition
the podcast, we'll probably

do something as a, you know...

Like I said, who's really cares about
this the most are those getting ready

to retire and how they're gonna afford
health insurance and what that looks like.

So I think we'll do a pod just on
that because I think that's near and

dear to a lot of people's hearts.

so another one, and this is one that
once again, I'll be honest, like w-

in my coursework, man, this, this
insurance, topic got hammered into us.

But man, I tell you, a lot of people
don't think about it, but it's this

concept of disability insurance.

You know?

And, and most people are like,
"Well, what the heck is that?"

Yeah.

Like really this, they
don't even think about it.

Louie: No, and that's crazy 'cause a
lot of people d- have a general idea of

what, like, life insurance- Yep ... is,
and we'll talk about life insurance.

But if you ask them about disability
insurance, there's like this,

"I don't think I need that.

I'm not gonna be disabled."

Yeah.

boy, that is a big risk.

Jon: That is a huge risk.

And statistically speaking, you are gonna
be much more likely to have a disability,

some type of physical ailment, than you
are gonna to have a premature death.

Yes.

Like just

Louie: Yes ... speaking.

Yep, exactly.

That- You're

Jon: You're gonna use disability
insurance or have the need for

disability insurance way more than
you ever would need life insurance.

So

Louie: John, I was looking...

I was trying to look at stats,
and it's, for both just, like, the

public at large and for firefighters
specifically, and I couldn't find

a lot of really good information.

But the, the overwhelming theme in
the stuff that you find is that the,

the, the,

probability of a premature death is
very low, even for firefighters, right?

Which we, we have higher risks of- Yep
... occupational cancer and things like that.

It's still relatively low.

But the chance that you become disabled
for at least a short period of time,

which is defined as, like, three to six
months or longer, is much, much higher.

And it can be as high as a one
in four chance, so a 25% chance,

and that is not for firefighters.

I couldn't find good statistics
for, like, short-term and long-term

disability for firefighters.

But even e- for the public as a
whole, it's about one in four.

It could be as high as one in four.

Yeah.

So for firefighters, it
has to be higher than that.

Jon: Yeah.

I would honestly be willing to
say from the short term, I would

say it's probably three-quarters.

I mean, if you think around the
table and you think about at the

firehouse how many people have gone
on modified duty or light duty 'cause

they had something that they couldn't
perform their job as a firefighter,

I mean, it's, it's at least half.

But I, I would say it's, I-- at least at
our department, it's probably closer to

pushing that two-thirds- Yeah portion at
some point in your whole career, right?

That you're gonna need that policy.

So it's definitely something that's,
super important to talk about.

where you get your disability
insurance, so at least in the fire

department, most of the time this is
going to be through your employer.

I can't think of anyone...

Do you-- have you ever heard of
anyone that tried to get their own

disability insurance on their own?

Louie: Firefighters?

Yes.

No.

No.

I, I think people generally look at
the FPPA plan that we have in Colorado-

Yep ... and they're like, "Well,
hey, at least I got something that's

Jon: a death and disability, so not
only health insur- or life insurance,

but also, disability insurance.

Yep.

Yep.

Louie: A lot of, employers offer it as,
like, a add-on to your insurance policy.

Yep.

My wife's employer will say, "Hey,
if you want long-term disability

coverage- Yep ... it's an extra..."

I mean, they subsidize it too,
but there's, it's an extra $2.50

per paycheck or something like that- Yeah
... or, or $4 a paycheck or whatever it is.

It's very, very reasonable, and it
protects her income from, you know, a,

a short-term or a long-term disability.

And I think that's the key, right?

Is we've always, we've said on this
podcast, and we say to our new guys

all the time, that your income is
your number one wealth-building tool.

So what disability insurance
is, is protection against

Jon: The loss of that income.

Yep.

Louie: Yeah.

You don't want anything
to happen to that income.

It'll pay you out a
portion of your income.

You need disability insurance.

I would say that this is more
important than life insurance.

This is more important than a lot of the
kinds of insurance that we talk about.

some form of disability insurance
should be key for firefighters.

Jon: Yeah.

And that's, and like I said,
most people listening to this are

firefighters out there, I can almost,
guarantee it's-- you have to have

some type of disability insurance.

Your employer will, will offer
that, and that's just part of your,

benefits and compensation package.

it might be a good reminder though for
those of you that are listening for

your, your loved ones or your spouses
that, to Louie's point and, and his wife,

you know, whether or not they, engage
in that disability insurance is pretty

important, especially if they're...

have an income and the family
depends on that income.

once again, depending on-- there's
different levels of disability insurance.

Like Louie said, there's this concept
between short-term and long-term.

That's just how long you're anticipated
to not be able to perform your job.

But then there's a subset of
that, and there's one that's

called your own occupation.

that's really common for specialists.

So think of someone like a surgeon
who has spent 18 years of their

life getting trained to do this.

Like their hands, like they basically
have insurance on their hands because

if they lose that ability, if they
lose a digit or they can no longer

perform an operation, you look at that
over 30 years, what, an orthopedic or

cardiovascular surgeon's gonna make,
I mean, you're talking a lot of money.

So there are certain industries where
disability insurance is definitely sold

a lot more, is a lot more common just
based on the need to replace that income.

But nonetheless, we would be
remissed if we didn't talk about

just the importance of disability
insurance, understand what it is.

like I said, whoever you get it through,
there's gonna be different levels

of what you're gonna qualify for.

typically it's not one of those
that pays you out at 100%.

Louie: Yeah.

Jon: Yeah.

And why, why do you
think they would do that?

Why would they never, why would
they never write an insurance

policy that would pay you 100%?

Louie: 100%?

probably because it has
to do with incentives.

100%.

Yeah.

Jon: Dude, the firefighters, if you could
go out on a medical disability or any kind

of disability, and, and I'm making fun
of our brothers and sisters out there, so

this would be society in general though.

But if you could basically be
guaranteed to make your same

wage and not have to work,

Louie: That's attractive
to a lot of people, man.

Jon: would be very attractive.

So that's why you'll never see,
disability policies written at

100% of your replacement, income.

Typically, it's gonna be somewhere, you
know, 50 to 70%, like 70% is typically

about the high end of what you can get.

because they don't wanna incentivize
it so much that people would be

better off being disabled or claim
disability, rather than work.

So just keep that in mind.

You're never gonna get 100%
replacement of your income.

Louie: Yeah.

I think there's a good resource
that people should consider.

If you're a Colorado firefighter,
if you're in the FPPA program,

you should look at a PDF.

It's like a brochure that's put out by
FPPA from their website, and it's called

the FPPA Death and Disability Plan.

You can download that PDF, and it
will explain those benefits to you.

Yeah.

But the good news is your job, if you
are an FPPA firefighter, is that they

will cover both, temporary occupational
disability, total occupational disability,

or permanent occupational disability,
I think is what they call it, as

well as- Total ... total disability.

And it ranges from 40% of coverage of
your base salary to 70% of your base

salary if you're totally disabled.

So that gives you some, safety net
there if something happens to you on the

job, or even off of the job, and you're
disabled, and you cannot perform the

work of a firefighter, then you will get
some pay or some compensation for that.

So you kinda get that baked
in when you become an FPPA

firefighter, and that's huge.

Most people don't have
something like that.

It's not that robust.

We're fortunate enough that, you know, the
unions have fought for that, and we have

secured that- Yeah ... benefit for us.

So you have that.

That's good.

If you're married to a spouse that's not
a firefighter though, and you rely on

that person's income to pay your bills
and to make ends meet, you should consider

looking at a disability, especially
a long-term disability plan for your

spouse, and that might be more expensive.

That probably will be way more
expensive than what you pay as a

firefighter, but it's worth it.

Jon: it.

Yeah.

And if you can shop it through the
employer, that's typically where

you get the best deal 'cause they
get a group discount rather than

going out on the individual market.

but I do think that is definitely
something that is overshadowed

and, and not thought about enough.

I don't think employers do a good
job of kind of pushing that as a, as

something that you should consider.

So, Louie and I would be remissed
if we didn't talk about that.

So I'll also plug that, I'll put
that PDF into the show notes as well,

so you guys can just click on that.

pretty much any other firefighter
listening out there from a different

state, you know, through whatever state
organization you have, they're gonna

have, some form of disability as well.

I, I can't think of one that
doesn't have a disability just

because they are so common.

You know- Yeah

people going out, you know how many
people we have, you know, a handful

every year here, and our organization
is not massive, that go out on

some type of medical disability.

Yeah.

Right?

Because some of those things are
so stringent, and you're like,

"Dude, that guy's in great health.

Like, oh, he's on blood
thinners, and he can't work here?

See you later."

You know?

Louie: It happens.

Jon: it's crazy.

Louie: So, It happens

Jon: we're grateful
for, for the disability.

All right, so this is definitely one
I would say besides, health insurance,

obviously people interact with a bunch.

auto insurance and homeowners insurance,
we'll talk about here in a second.

But this is another one that people
at least have some Familiarity

with, and that's life insurance.

Mm-hmm.

All right?

Lot of different types and
styles of life insurance, LBs.

Yeah.

Oh, boy.

Oh, boy.

Louie: wanna get me riled up, we can
talk about life insurance- ... because

I have some strong opinions, and we
don't need to get into all of it,

Jon: We won't.

And we will actually do, once again,
some of these I think are so important,

and there's so much misinformation
out there that we will, I promise you,

at some point we will do a special
episode just on life insurance, because

we can get into some of the more
nuances and details of the different

styles and what-- and bucket them.

So if you're thinking about this, we
don't have the time for this podcast

to get in depth on this one, but
this one definitely, there's some

strong biases on both sides, right?

For people that sell it- Oh ... and
then people that buy it, and there's

a lot of different ways that, I
don't wanna say it's peddled, but

sometimes I feel like it's peddled.

Peddled and sold.

Louie: It's peddled and sold, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

Jon: and but so there's
different styles, right?

Yeah.

There's, everyone should be
familiar with term insurance, right?

And term designates the length
of time that you have that

insurance coverage for, right?

And you can basically tailor
this to however long you want.

most of the time, the probably
the two most common terms are

30-year terms and 20-year terms,
especially for some younger folks.

I've seen them as, as short as
five-year terms, 10-year terms.

So they're really all over the board.

But basically, that is how long from
the day that you sign that, that

policy or you get approved for that
policy and start paying that policy,

that is how long that you will
have some form of a death benefit.

So if you die within that timeframe,
then whoever your designated

beneficiary is, they will get whatever
the face value of that policy.

So, you know,

Louie: feel like this should
be called death insurance.

we, it's probably we don't like it
'cause it sounds kinda harsh or-

Yeah ... or something, but it's
really to protect you in the event,

or protect your estate or your

Jon: really to protect you
in event or your estate

Louie: You don't care.

You're dead.

Jon: you, honestly, you are
not gonna care- Not care

because you're dead.

But you probably do care, especially
if you love your family- Yeah ... that

you want them to be taken care of.

And that really is how this is, that's how
you should think about, term insurance.

Now they, you know, once again, in the
insurance industry, they can add different

riders and policies in addition to.

But really the concept of term
insurance is to cover those liabilities

that you have out there that you are
no longer gonna be able to cover.

So a, a big thing that people care about
is they want their home paid off, right?

If I pass away, I don't want
my wife Kate to have to worry

about the mortgage anyway.

I gotta have at least a certain amount of
money to cover and pay off the mortgage.

Yeah.

College education is another one.

And there's a lot of different
factors that advisors can use to

figure out how much coverage you
need, in order to satisfy that.

it's not one of those should, that
should be used as a get rich quick

or like you want your beneficiaries
to like win the lottery by you dying.

You should have just enough to cover
what you have determined is your

need, and not a whole lot else.

Because once again, we talked about
the likelihood that they're gonna

pay out on this, and it's very small.

And that's why those premiums
are so affordable, right?

Louie: you don't wanna
give your wife a reason to

Jon: give your wife a-

Louie: "Let me put some arsenic in
this dinner because- Don't sign that

he's got a, he's got a $10 million policy.

Let's, let's pay out on this."

Exactly.

"He's worth more to me
dead than he is alive."

Well, I don't know if this ... and, and,

you

Jon: We talked about incentives early.

Exactly.

Right?

Yep.

Exactly.

Louie: Everyone's susceptible to
playing to the incentives game.

I would say at the, at the s- most simple
thought process behind term life insurance

is you probably will not die early.

But i- if you do, you want your,
your family to be taken care

of, so you buy a term Policy.

Yeah.

And at the end of the term, if you've
been doing everything else that we are

talking to you about and teaching about,
you've been saving in your 457 and in

a Roth IRA, and you have a pension, you
won't need any kind of insurance- Correct

against your untimely death,
because you'll have an estate,

and you'll have funds, and your
family will be able to survive.

But right now or when you're younger
in your journey, you probably need

that kind of coverage if you die
early, or your family needs that

kind of coverage if you die early.

So if you're looking for term
insurance or for life insurance, I,

I don't recommend universal life.

I don't recommend whole life.

I know there are some circumstances,
some crazy estate planning, tax

advantage benefits or something to
whole life insurance, and I, I get it.

I get it.

If you're one of those guys who
listens to this podcast and you're

an insurance agent, I get that there
are a subsection of the population.

But the reason why I like term
life insurance is because it's

cheap, and it's easy to understand.

If you die, your family gets
the stated amount on the policy.

If you don't die, you have just paid
a small premium every year for that,

Jon: Risk coverage.

Louie: that risk coverage in
the event that you did die.

And you walk away at the end
of it, and you're like, "Boom,

I don't need it anymore.

I was able to build my wealth apart from
an insurance plan or something like that."

So I would say that if you're gonna
shop for an insurance plan for you

or your spouse, then you should just
really look at term life insurance.

I think that's the best
situation, the best plan for 99.8%

of the population.

Yep.

Jon: And some organizations you can
get it covered through your employer.

Like most employers, once
again, will have a small amount

of life insurance, on your...

as long as you work there.

You know, like ours is basically whatever
your salary is up to a certain amount

that they will cover, which is just
part of the benefits package, right?

So that's a nice little kicker.

but for most people, especially if
you have a home and you have some

kids, that probably is not gonna
be enough, so you should be out

there shopping a little bit more.

Louie: And I, I have a term life
policy on myself in addition to-

Yeah ... what we have at work.

Yeah.

Which is great.

My wife, if I died, would
get a year of my base pay.

Yep.

Which is great.

And then, also part of the FPPA, and
this is in that same death and disability

packet that John's gonna link to in the
show notes, but you, if you die off duty,

you'll get 40% of your base pay, or your
spouse will get 40%, or I should say your

beneficiary will get 40% of your base pay.

And if you die on duty,
it's 70% of base pay.

So you kind of have a built-in
life insurance policy.

if you're with FPPA, and a lot
of departments nationwide have

something very similar to that.

So that's awesome.

you already have a certain
amount of coverage.

You may or may not need
more than that, though- Yeah

depending on the age of your kids- Yeah
... how many kids you have, if your spouse

works or not- Yeah ... or if she is not
gonna work if you die, 'cause she has

to take care of the family and the kids.

So those are all things to think about if
you decide that you wanna buy term life.

Jon: This is the, I would say I've met
with a lot of people, a lot of different

firefighters over the years, and this is
the number one biggest blind spot that

our folks have, and it's not coverage
for themselves, it's coverage for their

Louie: spouse ... oh, I'm
so glad you said that.

Yeah.

Caitlin asked me if I was gonna
talk about that, and I'm like,

"Oh, John and I will bring it

Jon: It's the biggest blind spot I
see hands down all the time where our

folks are covered because they've got
through the organization, through,

our employer, and then also through,
the retirement plan and death and

disability policy that we pay into.

You've got multiple layers of coverage,
so there is gonna be some income.

But I can't tell you how many people I've
met with and we go through their insurance

policies, and I know theirs, but I ask
the spouse, you know, "What do you have?"

And they're like, "Well, I
don't have anything on me."

Louie: Yeah.

And- And

Jon: "What do you think would
happen if your spouse passes away?

Do you think you're gonna be
able to do this job anymore?"

Yeah,

Louie: And I've, that is my biggest fear.

Like, if, if God forbid something
were to happen to my wife, I, I don't

know if I could be a firefighter.

Yeah.

I have three little, little kids at home,
and full-time care for them 48 hours at a

time every- Yeah ... six days is massive.

Like, that is...

I, I don't think I'd be able to do it.

I'd probably have to leave this job.

Yeah.

That would be a massive blow
to my finances, to my f- my

future, my financial future.

So if we didn't have a term
policy on Caitlin, I would be

Jon: screwed.

You'd be hosed.

Yeah.

No, one, one on-- Yeah.

So I would just encourage everyone
listening out there, you know, if you're

thinking about your loved ones and
you have a loved one, a spouse, just

double-check and see what they have.

And once again, this is something that,
it's all based on actuarials and risk.

That's what the insurance
company is, is doing.

They're doing mortality tables, which
is very morbid, but they're figuring

out like what the, what's the likelihood
that I'm gonna have to pay this out,

and then they price it accordingly.

So the earlier you do this, the better.

so what if you've got a single
guy comes into you, Louie, 25

years old, isn't married yet.

do they need to have additional
life insurance, do you think?

Or do you think their coverage from,
FPPA in our circumstance in West Metro is

Louie: Yeah, I would
just say probably not.

If they don't have someone that
relies on their income, that would

miss their income in the event
of their untimely passing- Yeah

then they probably don't need
anything like a term life policy.

Probably what they have, through FPPA
would be plenty for their beneficiary,

especially 'cause that beneficiary
is not relying on that income.

So you know, what you really need
to think about is life insurance

is for people that depend on you.

Yeah.

It's not for you, it's for people
that depend on your income.

If you have a family, if you have a
spouse, you probably need life insurance.

If you don't and you're just a single
young guy who no one relies on for

their income, you definitely, I would
say you, you almost surely don't

need more than what FPPA gives you.

Yeah.

Jon: So I actually, I've thought
about this a lot, and, my,

my tune on this has changed.

And the only reason that has changed,
and it's specific to our industry,

is I can't tell you the handful
of people that I know of that have

gotten cancer at a pretty young age.

and once again, this is something
that's all based on risk.

So if you're one of those guys,
unfortunately, that maybe you get, may-

maybe you get married a little bit later
in life, you're in your 20s and you're in

your 30s and you get some type of cancer
diagnosis, it's gonna be really hard for

you to ever get additional life insurance,
on top of what you do by your employer.

So this is one that, like...

And once again, if you're 25 years
old, and you get, like, a 30-year,

policy, term policy, and you get,
like, a million dollars of coverage,

you're talking, like, $24 a month.

Like, the, the b- the cost is so low.

And one of that ways is that then
mitigates risk down the line, that

if you somehow do have some type
of preexisting conditions or, God

forbid, I'm knocking on wood, you get
cancer, it's almost gonna be virtually

impossible for you to get insurance, or
if you do, it's gonna be so expensive,

it's gonna be counterproductive.

So just food for thought out there.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, but this
is something that I've thought about from

a planning perspective that I just...

it's with our industry.

I wouldn't say this for the
average Joe Schmoe who's working,

some corporate job in the office.

Like, their, their risks
are so much lower than ours.

But I can't tell you how many people
I've run into, that are in their late

20s, early 30s, still aren't married yet,
that, man, they get a cancer diagnosis,

and it's gonna be really hard for

Louie: I see.

Yeah ... to get additional coverage.

So just food for thought.

Boy, I, I mean, as you can tell, I'd
never really thought of that, but

you're basically saying- If you buy it
now with the intention that you will

eventually have a family- Correct ... and
i- if you get cancer, you would not be

able to provide a term life policy for

Jon: be really cost prohibitive for you
to then get additional insurance that

you might need now that you do have a

Louie: So kinda eat the cost now,

Jon: I look at that as like
a risk management strategy.

And once again, because the
premiums are so low at that age.

Now, I'm not saying you should
do that when you're 40 years old

and you still aren't married yet.

'cause once again, because that
coverage on a, you know, a 20

year is gonna be way higher.

But at 25, you get a 30-year policy
that should keep you all the way till

you're 55 when hopefully you've listened
to the pod and you're ready to retire,

you won't need anything more than that.

I look at that $25, $28, whatever it
is, as like pretty cheap insurance

for further coverage down the

Louie: right.

Okay.

Okay.

so just- I like it

Jon: things to consider.

And, but that's specifically
for our folks in our industry.

I'm not advocating if you've got a brother
or sister that once again has a very low

risk of ever contracting or getting some
type of disease like that, you know?

it's just specific for our folks
'cause unfortunately I've seen

it so much, so food for thought.

Louie: I like it.

I like it.

Jon: all right, so
let's keep rolling here.

So another one, that a lot of
folks are gonna have a, a better

understanding of, and that is
homeowners and auto insurance, right?

Once again, interact with this.

So let's go, let's start with the autos

Louie: anyone who watches football
or basketball or any kind of

Jon: they are.

Oh dude, you've, you've 100'd

Louie: all about the auto insurance
and the, the Geicos and the Liberty.

They could probably tell
you all the jingles and the

tunes.

Jon: Liberty.

Oh yeah, all of 'em.

Yeah, they advertise a

Louie: Oh, yeah.

Jon: which should once again tell you
the profit motives of these companies.

When they can just advertise
like this on some big, really big

events, like they're making some

Louie: They're making money

Jon: They're making some money.

All right, so, let's start
with auto insurance first.

All right, so once again,
it is a requirement.

I don't know any state that you are
not required to have, auto insurance.

it's a part of getting your
driver's license and it's, a

part of registering your vehicle
and everything else like that.

So once again, even if you feel like,
"Hey man, I I got a hunk of junk that's

worth 1,000 bucks, I don't need insurance
'cause if that thing gets smashed up,

I'll just, I'll, you can take it and
I'll go buy, pick something else up."

But no, you'll get cited, you'll be
fined, you probably even do a little

jail time for driving, uninsured.

so it's something, yeah, you gotta have.

there's different coverages
involved with insurance.

the two biggest things that most
people should probably be familiar

with are what's called liability
insurance, and that's what you're

required to have by the state.

You're s- required to
have liability insurance.

So once again, if you get in an
accident and you're held liable, your

insurance company will pay whoever
got hurt or they'll pay for their,

vehicle and they'll replace that.

that's the concept.

And then there's another layer on top
of that, and that's called comprehensive

Louie: Mm-hmm

Jon: Once again, that's what a
lot of people have, especially

if they have nicer vehicles that
cost a lot of money to repair.

They want to keep them
in good working order.

That's gonna cover all sorts of things.

So not only did you might not have
got in an accident, but hailstorm

comes through, tree falls on your
car or whatever, smashes it up.

Louie: Mayhem.

Mayhem.

You're just a victim of mayhem.

Jon: dude, what is that, Allstate?

Allstate.

Allstate, yeah.

Yeah, that's the Allstate Mayhem, right?

You're gonna want that
comprehensive coverage.

So obviously the liability is going
to be cheaper than the comprehensive,

'cause once again, comprehensive
meaning it's gonna cover anything

that happens to your vehicle.

You are going to be insured for that.

Louie: And if you owe money on
your vehicle, they're gonna make

you have comprehensive coverage.

Yeah.

whoever holds your note on your car will
tell you you need comprehensive coverage.

Yeah.

'Cause they wanna be covered.

'Cause

Jon: they wanna be covered.

'Cause they do, yeah.

They don't wanna have you totally
destroy that thing and have a complete

loss, and you still owe 25,000 bucks on
that and be like, "Oh, sorry, I can't-

Louie: Can't pay it.

"Can't pay that."

Jon: pay that, sorry."

Louie: Yeah, exactly.

Jon: No harm,

Louie: at all.

Oh, they'll get theirs, for sure.

And this

Jon: is one that, man, the cost, the
increase in cost in auto insurance.

Now, once again, Louie
and I are in Colorado.

I remember at one point, this was
several years ago, we were like in the

top three for most uninsured motorists.

Louie: Jeez.

Jon: I'm not pointing fingers,
just, just saying what it was.

So I know our auto insurance here in
this state, especially in the Denver

metro area, is extremely expensive.

Like my dad, who lives over in
Rifle, He actually has a nicer

vehicle than I do, and his insurance
is considerably cheaper than mine.

Couple different reasons.

One is we have more theft and we have
more accidents on the Front Range here.

and the other thing is, we
have a lot of hail here.

Western Colorado, because of the
way the mountains are set, they

don't get hail, hardly ever.

so once again, risks, risk premium should
all be based off of, you know, what's the

likelihood that the insurance company's
gonna have to pay out, and then they just

figure out the actuarials, and that's
how they come up with these premiums.

So man, our premiums
here are freaking high.

Louie: Yeah.

They are.

They are.

And there's, the only really way
around that is by Being a good driver,

Jon: Being a good-- Yes.

Louie: a safe driver ... not getting
tickets, not getting into car accidents.

And then also, I, I know there's
a lot of strategy within like the

financial independence movement to
set your deductibles really high.

Jon: Correct.

Louie: Yeah.

and I do that too.

I'm not saying that's for everyone.

If you're more of a reckless
driver or something like that,

then maybe you don't wanna

Jon: If you drive it like you stole it.

Louie: yeah, exactly.

But I, I try to set them higher because
it's probably money that's gonna

be thrown away, and I don't know.

I just think that that's the
best thing that I could do-

Jon: do.

Yeah, I mean, if you can come
up with, I mean, yours, yours

like $1,000, 2,000 bucks.

Do you remember what your deductible is?

Louie: I wanna say it's 2,000 or 3,000.

Jon: 3,000 Okay.

Yep.

Yeah, so the higher, once again, the
higher your deductible, once again, it's

kinda like a high deductible health plan.

Like, you're gonna be on
the hook, the deductible.

Of even the smallest fender bender,
you're gonna have to pay the first

two grand or three grand, whatever
your deductible is, and then the

insurance company will pay the rest.

that's the whole concept.

I know it sounds very simple,
but that's how it works.

So if you have enough money in the
bank where you're like, "Yeah, I feel

pretty good with my driving skills.

I don't drive a whole lot.

I feel like, I haven't, I've
gone," once again, knock on wood,

"without an accident for a while.

I'm, I'm okay 'cause I've got, more
than two grand in the bank that

if, if this comes up, then I'll

Louie: I'll pay it.

Jon: it."

So that part's, that part's all good.

Most people understand that.

This is another plug, though.

Louie and I, we sound like we're
the, anti-new vehicle police.

but this is one, though, once again,
like the insurance company's gonna look

at what's the replacement cost of that
vehicle, and you get a brand-new truck

at 75 Gs, you're gonna be paying, top
dollar to have comprehensive insurance

on that with like a $500 deductible.

You're gonna be paying some
significant cabbage to pay for that.

So just another one of those things,
like we call them the hidden costs.

But those are the hidden costs
of having brand-new shit.

It's gonna be in your registration.

It's gonna be in your insurance.

Louie: it's gonna go on and on.

Like that's, you're gonna
keep paying those every year.

That's- Forever ... yeah.

Jon: on and on and on because you're
gonna keep paying those every year.

Forever.

Forever.

so just things to consider.

So, but most people do know
about the auto insurance.

So this is the one, though, and I will
lump both auto insurance and homeowners

insurance into this, is that, especially
where Louie and I live, man, you have

got to be an advocate for yourself.

so this is where I would be a strong
proponent of I have an insurance

broker, who basically, shops insurance
once a year for me, and they compare

what I'm paying right now to what's
out there, in the rest of the market.

Now, they can't compare everything
'cause there are certain standalone

places like Allstate and State Farm
are kinda like their own shops.

you have to go to a specific State
Farm agent, and that's all they sell.

They won't sell other stuff.

But I go to an independent broker
that has access to, I don't know,

it's like 20 or 24 different insurance
companies, and they shop insurance.

And I will tell you what, man,
since we've moved into our house,

it's been eight years now, I've
had eight different insurance

companies in the last eight years.

Every year, I've had to go to a
different insurance company in order

to get a better rate and better
premiums, because everyone's trying

to jack my rates up every year.

It's like, it's kinda like
the cable industry, right?

Remember that?

Comcast would be like, "Oh,
okay, you're a loyal member.

We're just gonna increase it by another
20% next year," and it's such a hassle.

Louie: you're a new member?

Hey, let's give you this
great introductory pricing.

Yes.

Yeah.

It's dumb how they do

Jon: It is

Louie: dumb,
but- ... they're, they do that

Jon: I'm telling you right now, so this
is one of the things when Louie and

I were talking about, podcast episode
ideas, this is one where I was-- had some

frustration 'cause I'm going through, a
homeowner's insurance renewal right now.

and this is one where I think my
current premiums are, like, $3,800.

Lot of money, man.

When I first bought my house, same
house, haven't really done much

to it, it was, like, $1,800, and
that's in the span of eight years.

It's gone up over 100%.

Yeah.

Louie: that's not rare.

That's not because you had a bunch

Jon: No.

Th- no zero claims ... zero claims.

Yeah ... nothing.

It's been the exact same.

Now, they're gonna say that my
premiums have gone up because of

the replacement costs have gone
up, which is definitely true.

you go to any...

You go to Home Depot, and you look at
what a two-by-four is, what a sheet of

plywood is, or OSB, and it's, double or
triple from what you met before COVID.

So things have definitely gone up.

Yeah.

But to my point, my, I got the thing in
the mail, and they're like, "Yes, we're

gonna raise your insurance, up 70%."

Louie: Ugh,

Jon: from 3,800 to, I don't know, what
is it, like $7,400 is what they said

that my new insurance rate is gonna be.

So my lady, Christina, love her, she's
shopping it right now to look at other

things, and she's like, "Oh yeah, I know.

We'll be able to beat that considerably."

So this is one where, once again, if
you're not doing it, yourself, which

is a huge pain in the ass, dude, it's
a huge pain in the ass, but if you can

go to an independent broker that can
shop other things, this is one that,

I, I noticed this just the other day.

So, my father-in-law, Frank, passed
away couple, couple weeks ago.

Rest in peace, Frank.

But we're going through, all
his, all his documents, and I'm

helping out my mother-in-law
with some of the financial stuff.

And I looked at their insurance,
and they're with USAA, which

is a great company, right?

They have a lot of good reviews, but
I looked for, at the last document I

could find, and, you know, God bless
my father-in-law and my mother-in-law,

but they were all, like, paper stuff.

They never had any kind
of online accounts.

the newest one I could find was
from 2020, and their homeowner's

insurance was, like, $1,200.

And they have a very modest,
ranch home up in Fort Collins.

So I was like, "Oh, okay."

I got onto USAA and looked at
what their current premiums

are, and it's almost $4,000.

So a 300% increase in the span of what?

Six years?

Five years?

And once again, God bless him, but
it's 'cause I know he didn't shop it.

Yeah.

So once again, I've got my lady Christina
on it, and she's gonna get us a quote

for their things, and I can guarantee
you it's probably gonna be, I would

bet maybe like two grand is probably...

You know, I'm gonna be able to save my
mother-in-law four grand by just shopping.

So once again, buyer beware kind
of behavior with some of this

stuff, and it's an inconvenience.

But dude, if it's a phone call
and it takes me three hours on the

computer to save two grand, that's
a g- that, that's a good hourly

Louie: Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I kind of done my...

I've been my own insurance broker-
Yeah ... and it just takes too much time.

I probably, I need to get
that phone number from

Jon: All right.

I'll put a link and,

Louie: better yet, if you happen to,
I don't know, be listening to this for

whatever weird reason and you're an
insurance broker and you wanna sponsor

the podcast in the future, you can

Jon: We might have a spot for you.

Louie: yeah, ask
[e-mail].

We'll work something out.

But yeah, shop it once a year.

I- that's what people's, that's kinda
like the, the best gold standard advice

I think out there is shop it once a year.

Make sure you're getting good rates.

Make sure you're not getting
hosed on your homeowners, your car

insurance, and bundle them to save.

I

Jon: standard advice I think out
there is shop it once a year.

Make sure you're getting good rates,
and make sure you're not getting

hosed on your homeowners or your car
insurance, and bundle them to save.

Like, you know- You do.

Yes.

That was a huge savings.

Yes.

If so, instead of having a standalone
policy with, you know, having, you

know, State Farm for your auto and
having Allstate for your, auto or

whatever, vice versa, you, you...

They will definitely price it better
to bundle it, you know, Verizon or all

those other styles, business models.

So definitely things to consider.

so the one thing I do wanna talk about,
and I think I'd be remissed as we're

talking about homeowners insurance too,
and this is one where just know what

you have coverage for, and know how much
you have coverage, if that makes sense.

So a, this really got highlighted, around
here a couple years ago with the Marshall

Fire up there in Boulder County, right?

They talked about just because of
the rapid escalation in costs for

insurance, so for building costs, labor
costs, everything, anything else like

that, I wanna say it was something
like 90% of the homes up there that

were destroyed were underinsured.

So if you are underinsured,
basically you're on the hook.

if you want, if you wanna replace your
house and you've got, you know, $700,000

of homeowners insurance and now it costs
a million dollars, well, guess what?

The insurance company doesn't
make up that $300,000 difference.

That's on you And that's unfortunately
what happened to a lot of those

people is, they got a settlement
eventually, which was less than the

actual cost to rebuild it, so now they
have to move out of their community.

And it's just one of those things that,
this is one of those things, a lot like

health insurance and some of these other
things, you don't wanna be cheap on.

don't be, what is it, a penny wise,
pound foolish, whatever the saying is.

this is one where you just wanna,
just know what you have coverage for.

This is also where you
work with a trusted broker.

They will be able to do that cost
analysis to make sure that you have.

Two points I wanna talk about.

So one is the replacement cost
and one is the actual cash value,

so just the difference in those.

So, my recommendation for you is
to get the full replacement cost.

So that is what it will actually cost
to replace the home during that year.

those tend to cost a little bit more
money because once again, they're

keeping up with the cost of inflation
and what it's gonna cost to replace that.

but also you're gonna get fair
value because what the actual

cash value is, is that's...

They use that, but then
they use a depreciation.

So let's say my sweet 10-year TV,
that I bought for, you know, well,

once again, 10 years ago, a TV
was probably 1,500 bucks, right?

They're gonna be like,
"Oh, dude, depreciated.

That thing's worth like $15.

Here's $15 for you."

Rather than replacement cost, they'd be
like, "All right, John, just go buy a, you

Louie: know,

Brand new TV that's-

go buy a brand new TV" ... 65

Jon: that's a similar, style
or whatever, and here you go."

So, you wanna get the full
replacement cost for those things.

It'll just end up you'll be
able to be more whole than you

will be trying to part that out.

Another strategy to think about, and I
finally did this, thank God, is if you do

own a home or a condo or something else
like this, one of the best things that you

could ever do is, take 10 minutes, take
your phone out and do a nice little video.

Do a walk around of all the rooms.

Open up your contents.

Take a look at that because guess what?

Once again, dude, it doesn't
have to be a complete loss.

You don't have to have
your whole home burn down.

But if you lose half of your house or
even your garage or something else like

that and you're trying to account for all
the things when you have to go through

that statement with your insurance
agent and be like, "Okay, well, what

did you have in your garage, Louie?

Could you think about the tools
and all the other things you had?"

You'd be like, "I have no idea."

Now you can actually just go
back to your phone and be like,

look at, this is what I've got."

So way, especially in our age
now where everything's digital-

Louie: there's people that
do that, like, every year.

Yeah.

They'll do a walkthrough of their house-

Jon: It's a really,

Louie: of their

Jon: it's a really good-- once again,
it's 10 minutes out of your life, and

it's just one of those things you just
never think is gonna happen until it does.

But man, if it ever does,
you're gonna be very grateful.

Now, unless you're one of those
people that doesn't have jack shit

and you're trying to claim that you
had a bunch of stuff, then maybe

it's not gonna be so much in your

Louie: in

Jon: favor.

But, for everyone else here, if
you've got some content, some things

that you want replaced, and you just
wanna make sure that you have an

accurate inventory of your house,
like I can't advocate that enough.

Like that's just something i-
if you can do it a year, uh,

once a year, man, kudos on you.

But at least, you know, somewhat, somewhat
frequently just so things that have been

updated are all gonna be accounted for.

I think that's just
super, super important.

Louie: I think the consumer advocate
Clark Howard says he does it once

a year, and he's like, "I do it on
my birthday, so I never forget."

So Oh, yeah ... that's like his birthday
gift to himself- Oh, yeah ... is he

goes around and he records- Yeah,

Jon: yeah.

Louie and I have been, accused
of being nerds, and we are nerds.

I will-- we ain't that big of a nerd.

That, that's not my birthday gift

Louie: No, I'm not doing that on my

Jon: going out there and, and doing
an iPhone video of whatever I got

Louie: got in

Jon: content.

So, what are the things...

So other things with, homeowners
to be, considerate of is the things

that it doesn't co- it doesn't

Louie: cover, yeah.

Yeah.

Jon: This is another big misnomer, right?

Like, and it doesn't happen.

it can happen here, and
it has happened here.

Flooding is a huge one, right?

Like you think about the folks down in
the Gulf Coast and along the rivers and,

even around here like in Boulder and
some in Lyons when we had those floods.

I can guarantee you the majority
of those folks did not have flood

insurance 'cause it's something
completely separate from your

Louie: Unless they're like in a floodplain
or they specifically called out-

Yeah ... or they have a rider on their
policy- Yeah ... that's not covered.

Jon: But most people don't.

even more common than that, especially
here in Colorado where we have really bad

soil is, dude, a shitter gets backed up

Louie: all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Jon: Sewer backups, that's another one
of those things that they are gonna

say like, "Yeah, we're not covering
you unless you have a specific rider,"

which, once again, tip for you guys,
that's a super cheap insurance.

Like I don't know, I think
it cost me like $15 a year to

have up to $35,000 in coverage.

this is something that's
gonna be more likely to happen

at my house, not because of

Louie: what was happening

Jon: what was happening with the
Beatty boys, but just generally

speaking, this is just something
that we run into all the time.

So just go through, to see
what you're covered for and

what you're not covered for,

Louie: so.

Fire's generally covered, which is good.

Yes.

Yes And you'll need it to be covered
because you are gonna get so much shit

as a firefighter if your house burns
down, that you're gonna need all that

coverage and all that money, just to kinda
appease all the, all, all the negative

feelings you have about yourself for
letting your house burn up in a fire.

Yes.

I think that's like my biggest
irrational fear is I hope we don't

leave the stove on 'cause I can't...

I live in West Metro's district.

I live in my, our own district.

Yeah.

And if my house were to catch fire
and burn down, I'd never live it down.

Jon: Oh, dude.

And you know those 13s homes would
be listening to your address.

they'd be slow rolling that thing.

They're like, "Dude, that Louie," know?

Let that thing go.

That's right.

That's right.

We wanna do some real work.

So, there's obviously a lot of other
things, other perils that aren't

covered, but once again, just be, be
cognizant of what you're covered for

and, and what you're not covered for.

and just also a word to the wise,
there's a lot of, coverages that you

might not know that you have within
your homeowner's insurance policy.

So, contents is one of those things
that you're covered for, right?

So, you lose some contents or someone
breaks into your house and they steal

some crap, like that is something
that you can get reimbursed for.

That also goes beyond your house.

So let's say you got your laptop and
you stay at a hotel and your laptop

gets stolen, you can actually make
a claim against whatever was stolen.

Now, obviously you would have to weigh
whether or not that made sense, right?

Is a $2,000 laptop gonna be worth
making a $2,000 deductible claim?

Louie: No.

Jon: 'cause you're gonna
end up paying 100%.

But just know there's a lot of weird
nuances on what you can be covered

for from your homeowner's insurance,
even though it's outside of your home.

It kinda sounds weird to think
about it in, in that capacity.

So just a lot to a pack- unpack there.

So the last one really quickly,
and this is one that, gets thrown

around there a lot, is long-term
care insurance, LTC insurance.

Man, we could once again have a
whole podcast on this topic alone.

But what sh- I mean, first of
all, what, what is long-term

Louie: Yeah.

Long, long-term care insurance is supposed
to provide you with coverage in the event

that you need, care in your older age.

Yeah.

So, nursing home care, which,
does happen to a lot of people.

Yep.

the problem is, you know, we, we
could do a whole podcast on it, except

I don't, I don't know if you or I
would know how, like what to, how to

tackle it, 'cause it's such an there's
so much craziness going on in that

industry right now that it's hard
for us to give really good advice.

So basically what happened is, years
ago they underestimated how much

long-term care would cost, they
underestimated how fast those costs

would rise, and they underestimated how
many people would need long-term care.

So they sold these policies really
cheap, and now all of a sudden they're

trying to make it up 'cause they have all
these people taking out claims, and they

need to jack up rates an insane amount.

So even more than home insurance,
even more than, a- any kind of

insurance out there, they're jacking
up these rates, and it's broken.

The, the, that industry appears broken.

I don't know what the solution is.

I don't know if it's gonna get fixed.

With all the baby boomers, past retirement
age now, I, it's probably even gonna

get more expensive, I hate to say it.

Jon: Yeah.

This is one that-- And you're gonna
get a lot of different opinions on

this, but most people, I would say,
at least from the financial lens,

would say that currently, yes, to
Louis' point, the system is broken.

there's a small finite window in when
it would maybe financially make sense,

and that's like a five-year window
typically when you're like in your early

50s, that it might make the most sense.

But, these are, these are backed by
insurance companies that underwrite these,

and you're only as, you're only as good
as your insurance company is solvent.

And a lot of these insurance companies
have become insolvent because they

can no longer afford to pay out
the cost of long-term care, nursing

homes that run $150,000 a year and
they collected $5,000 in premiums.

That math don't add up.

Louie: Don't math.

Don't math.

That

Jon: don't math.

so you know, most people I would say are
not a huge advocate or, or, or-- I mean

they like the concept of long-term care
insurance, but they just feel like the

juice isn't worth the squeeze when you
have to pay, to $15,000 for 20 years in

premiums to maybe get some of that back.

it's just a h- it's a big risk that
m- the math doesn't math, so to

speak, on that circumstance, so.

Louie: I think this is where we're gonna
chicken out and say, th- it's just, it's

so dependent upon your health as you
enter retirement that, for that time when

you're around 50 to 55 years old probably-

Jon: Yeah

Louie: be, that'll be the time to look at
it and consider if it makes sense for you.

Yeah.

And I, I don't know.

I don't know if it does.

I'm not sure what those policies look like
or what the premiums look like anymore.

I just know that a lot of people cannot
afford it- Yeah ... because they have

gone up in such a dramatic way that it
actually doesn't make sense for everyone

to have long-term care insurance.

Yeah.

It's not something we can say, like
health insurance or life insurance

or, you know, auto and homeowner's
insurance, that you gotta have it.

It's, this is one of those things
that's like, well, maybe you shouldn't

have it because it's so expensive.

Jon: Yeah.

And if you become one of those people
that blow through all your assets or

you don't have any assets, well, you
know, and you need a nursing home,

unfortunately, then you go on Medicaid,
and then you go into one of those

facilities that we've all seen and
wouldn't wish on our our own worst enemy.

but it's not like you're
gonna be out on the street.

There will be a place for you.

But it's just one of those things.

It's, it's complicated.

the one part that I have seen this,
there's been a space where maybe it makes

some sense, is there are now some life
insurance policies that do have a rider

for some long-term care, which I've heard.

I haven't done a ton of
investigation on there.

That might make some sense.

It's not gonna cover all of it,
but it might be some of an offset.

leave it to the financial and insurance
industry to be really creative.

They are, like, on top of, like,
the pharmaceutical in- industry for,

creating shit just out of thin air.

You know, they are very inventive.

I will give them that.

So there'll be more product that
comes out, regarding this stuff, so.

All right.

So hopefully that wasn't
too big of a, a bore fest.

Hopefully we tried to keep
it light to some degree.

Hopefully there are something
tangible to take away from that.

The highlight for me, though, is
for those of you, like the really,

the one that we'd be remiss, though,
is think about the disability and

life insurance for your spouses,

Louie: Mm-hmm out

Jon: there.

if you get one takeaway and that's it, and
you end up doing something, man, that made

the last hour worth it for Louie and I.

Louie: Totally agree.

Yeah.

And shout out to, so shout out to
the wives and the spouses who are

Taking care of your home and your
family and your children while you're

at work, that is an unpaid position.

But, if something happened to that
spouse, you would realize just how

quickly, how expensive it is- Yeah

and how it's almost impossible that
you're gonna find someone that's gonna

live with your children so that you can
go be a firefighter for, you know, a

third of your life and make that income.

So shout out to, we just had
Mother's Day pass not too long ago.

Shout out to,

Jon: All the moms.

Louie: pre- predominantly mothers,
but just spouses in general who are

staying home when we're at work.

That's a, that's a tough,
thankless job very often.

Jon: Yep.

That's a good place to leave it.

So thanks everyone for
listening once again.

Hopefully you, gleaned something
out this or at least, one or

two takeaways that will make you
a little bit more financially

independent and financially secure.

Louie: Stay safe and keep saving.

The Fiscal Firehouse podcast is a
podcast curated specifically for

local thirteen oh nine members.

This podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only

and should not be construed as
professional financial advice.

Should you need professional
advice, consult a licensed

financial advisor or tax advisor.

The opinions of John Beatty, Louis
Barilla, and their castmates are

solely their own and don't reflect
that of West Metro Fire Rescue