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Graeme Tennick is the Founder and Chief Legacy Maker at Tennick Accountants. Before founding his own company, Graeme worked in a small accounting practice and eventually moved to senior roles in PwC and public sector organizations. In this episode, Graeme shares his professional journey, entrepreneurial passion from a young age, and business-first accounting second approach. Graeme and Stuart also discuss an accountant's purpose and the rewarding impact they can have on their clients’ lives.
Join Stuart McLeod as he interviews the world's top accounting leaders to understand their story, how they operate, their goals, mission, and top advice to help you run your accounting firm.
Stuart McLeod 00:00:05.809 [music] Hi. I'm Stuart McLeod, CEO and co-founder of Karbon. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, the show where I go behind the scenes with the world's top accounting leaders. [music] Tell me about you, Graeme. How have you created this pretty amazing little company of yours, and what was your path to accounting? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:00:28.971 My path to accounting was not the stereotypical one. So my dad actually had a forklift truck company, so he bought and sold forklifts. So I was brought up in a business background, I'd say. Almost an engineering background. So from a very young age, I wanted to be a businessman. I didn't want to be an accountant. I just wanted to be a businessman, but I didn't know what to do in. So that started from my dad would have the branded rulers with his company name on. So I'd get those, he'd give them to me, I'd take them into school, and I'd sell them. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:01:03.716 Sell rulers to the kids.
Graeme Tennick 00:01:05.685 Yeah, yeah. I'd sell rulers. I'd sell stationery to the kids at school. So I'd make a point of doing that. And that was my first business venture. The teachers then got wind of it, and see, I was making too much money, so they then just told us I couldn't do that anymore. So we had to find other means.
Stuart McLeod 00:01:18.489 Infinity margin on those rulers, right? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:01:20.368 Oh, I mean, great margin. I did really well. But yes, so I started my business venture in the schoolyard. Now, later years, I was like, "I cannot just be a businessman. I need to know what I want to do." So I was offered the opportunity to go into the family business, but I didn't have the same passion around engineering as what my dad did. Now to throw an extra spanner in the works, my name's Graeme James Tennick. My dad's name is Graeme John Tennick. So we're both Graeme J Tennick. And I just thought, "Right, you've got the passion for engineering, but I want to make a name in my own right. We've already got the same name. I want to make my name on my own right." So I was like, "Right." We'll be in the house and my mom would shout, "Graeme." And again, by the tone, you got to understand, "Is this good or is it bad?" If it's bad, neither would answer. If it was good, we'd both answer. And so yeah, yeah yeah. What was it? So I wanted to kind of--
Stuart McLeod 00:02:13.203 Graeme John, Graeme James.
Graeme Tennick 00:02:14.738 Exactly. But even the post, it was always G J Tennick. It's like, "Well, I don't know." So I thought, "Right, what do I do?" and honestly, wasn't sure. So I kind of stumbled into accountancy a little bit, and I just thought, "Right, actually, you know what it is? It's a good thing to get qualified in." So I did an accountancy degree and then worked in an accountancy firm. I thought, "Actually, this isn't actually quite so bad in terms of finding what I really want to do." I then started really enjoying the accountancy, but I always wanted my own accountancy business. So I worked in a small firm. There was about 10, 12 staff. And did that for 5 and a half years, but there was no opportunity to become partner, so I thought, "I need to move on." I then went to work for PricewaterhouseCoopers. Again, I thought it was good for the CV. Never wanted to be there long-term, but I just wanted the name. I then thought I'd maybe go into a company and be like a senior finance officer there, but there was nothing around the Northeastern at a good level, so I went into the local government. And towards the tail end there, I was the interim finance director. But it was a brilliant, brilliant exposure because it was things such as, I managed to grow [inaudible] amount of £34 million, did a 30-year business plan for 8,516 houses, I managed several financial projects. It was really good exposure. But I don't know about the US government, but if it's anything like the UK government, it's corrupt. I'm going to just say, the lies and bullshit, that's just not something I can stand by and watch for too long. I just thought, "Oh, no. Sod this." So back in 2012, I thought--
Stuart McLeod 00:03:40.222 I think that's what the people said yesterday, didn't they? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:03:42.684 Oh, well, yeah. It was just like, "Enough of this."
Stuart McLeod 00:03:45.499 Did you see what Hugh Grant did to the interviews? All the MPs were being interviewed about the pending and then post-disaster, and the protesters outside Parliament at the moment for a couple of different things, they had speakers. And so Hugh Grant tweeted at them and said, "Can you play the Benny Hill tune [laughter] over your speakers?" And so if you look at the interviews from the MPs yesterday, they've all got the Benny Hill tune going on in the background [laughter] while they do the this is a disaster interview. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:04:21.576 Oh, I'll have to have a look at that.
Stuart McLeod 00:04:24.245 It's one of Hugh Grant's best-ever comedy moments, I think, and he wasn't even there. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:04:29.610 Do you like Only Fools and Horses?
Stuart McLeod 00:04:31.989 Only Fools and Horses. Oh, God, it's so long ago.
Graeme Tennick 00:04:35.036 Oh, well, there's an episode in that and they've repeated that one in the context of Boris. But if it's been a long since you've-- a long time since you've watched it, you might not be able to remember it, but there was one instance where Rodney returned home after having got married, and Del goes, "Rodney, you don't live here anymore." And Rodney's like, "[Huh?]," so he disappears. So they've replayed that with Boris. This is the conversation at Number 10: "Boris, you don't live here anymore. Just get out." But yeah, I love Only Fools and Horses. Love it. It's just great. But do you know what it is, honestly? That actually gave me a lot of business background where I am, because I love the hustle and bustle. I love the sale and everything which goes in, and that sort of like going for the ultimate goal, whatever that is. If it's a million pounds or 100,000. Whatever. But the fun-- and it said it in the last years of Only Fools and Horses. The fun is the journey. When you actually hit the destination, it's almost kind of like, "Ah." So I just want to enjoy the journey. Yeah. Just having fun along the way. And that's why I started the business. It was like, "I want to help people on that business journey." And it took me a while to realize it, but I want that business-first approach and accountancy second adoption. But rewinding a little bit to the very start when I first set up, I've got an expensive taste in cars.
Stuart McLeod 00:05:50.962 Oh, okay. Oh, that's a whole podcast in itself. Okay. No worries.
Graeme Tennick 00:05:55.668 Well, sorry, when I first told the wife and the parents that I was looking to start a business, I'd been engaged for two weeks, I had finance on a car, and I was on a very well-paid job, and I had five clients that said, "Are you mad?" and I said, "Yeah. Yes, I am." And I said, "I've got to do it." So the goal was-- I said it there. I said, "Look, I'll pay the finance off on the car, we will get married debt-free, get all that sorted, and we're going to do it." And we did. But we started off badly, if I'm honest. So financially, we did everything well, but operationally, I was behind the curve with all of the technology.
Stuart McLeod 00:06:35.143 What year was this? When did you set up?
Graeme Tennick 00:06:37.442 2012.
Stuart McLeod 00:06:38.851 Okay. So 10 years in this year. So still pretty fresh.
Graeme Tennick 00:06:43.178 I don't know. The hairline doesn't suggest it.
Stuart McLeod 00:06:45.640 Yeah. [laughter] Well, you're not as gray as I am though. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:06:48.984 No. Well, maybe the light's shielding it for you. And there's something in the UK called Just For Men. So Just For Men, that will change the color before you know it. There's nothing in the UK for that. [laughter] Well, there is, actually, but it's kind of-- yeah. That again, that's a separate podcast and we'll keep that offline. But yes. So I made the mistake of recreating the firm I first trained in. We did really well financially to start off with, but then about 4 years in, I was just working harder and harder and harder, and the profits were just going down and down and down. And I came back from a skiing holiday-- ironically, we were chatting about skiing there before, and I had a letter from a client, who was then one of our biggest clients, that said they were leaving us because they were owned by a German company, and the reason they were leaving us was because we didn't speak German. And I'm not fluent in German. I will kind of-- I mean, my English is barely understandable. And bear in mind, I've got hay fever at the date. It sounds like I'm talking through my nose. Probably is going to make this podcast even worse. But I'll keep going.
Stuart McLeod 00:07:43.748 That's all right. We got the technology for that. It's all right. You sound fine. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:07:47.086 Put the subtitles on.
Stuart McLeod 00:07:48.271 Yeah. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:07:49.999 So I came back from skiing, and when I got that letter, it was like a light bulb on. It was like, "Right, I need to change something." So on a not-so-nice note, I made the secretary redundant, but I helped her get another job and we're still friends today. And I've actually helped her get another job since then. So it was very amicable. But by making her redundant, I automated her job role using technology within six weeks. And I was like, "Ooh, I'm onto something here."
Stuart McLeod 00:08:12.698 You were relying on manual processes too much and needed to get some technology sorted out.
Graeme Tennick 00:08:19.981 And that six-week window changed my life. I was like, "If I can do that within six weeks, I can really do something more." The term I use across here of the UK, and I'm notorious for, I then went and got software drunk. I went to all the events like [Xero card?] and all that, and I fell in love with the software. I was like, "Oh, that looks good. That looks good." So I'll by 20 licenses of that, 50 licenses of that because it's cheaper, blah, blah, blah, blah. I bought all this stuff, brought it back to the team, and the team are like, "What the hell are you doing?" I said, "No, look, this is great." And there was just too much change. So we wasted probably about a year of getting some things really good and other things not so good. So what we got good, we got great at, but I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing. But then I did recognize, like, "Right, we're missing a few tricks here." And all of a sudden, we're now largely technology-led rather than the business-led side, which I had initially. So I then went to an exercise called Myers Briggs. There's disc and other ones where I took the psychology. And I started getting engrained and that was like, "Ooh, this is fascinating." I then started reading as well. So I don't know how many books I've read, but I'll read probably at least a book a month. And I started changing the way I was approaching things, and I really slowed things down and started doing things in a far more structured way and understood the mechanics of everybody else around me and how they spoke and how they interacted.
Graeme Tennick 00:09:43.658 So leading up to March '21, we were named the UK digital accounting of the year. And it was just like, "We're starting an illness now and this is really good." Then a little, old thing called COVID come along. But it was not top of the hills sort of things, but it was the best thing that could have happened to our business. Sorry, I'll go back here. This was March 2020, sorry. March 2020, COVID come along, and it was the best thing that could have happened to our business because March 2020's accounts were really good. And then March '21's accounts were our worst yet. A lot of it was linked onto COVID, but it also kind of rooted out for me a lot of issues within our business in terms of further inefficiencies. So we'd scaled up to be 15 staff from 10, and our overheads had grown, and naturally, businesses were struggling. All of our clients but one were still trading, but it just kind of like said, "Look, you really need to get to grips with things." And so going back to Karbon, I recognized there was only half of our team that were really on board with Karbon. The other half weren't. But I also recruited somebody outside the profession with no accountancy experience who's actually now working with yourselves alongside us. She works two days for yourselves and three days for us.
Graeme Tennick 00:10:50.171 Well, I spoke to Ian about [inaudible] and I said, "Ian, you guys need her." I said, "Take her for a couple of days a week, I'll keep her for three days a week, but she's amazing." She's only started in June, but she bridges that gap between-- so she's got a computer sciences degree, so she comes from an IT background, so she helped get Karbon functioning for us, but she also rocked the boat with some of the existing staff where they weren't committed. But Eva doesn't hold back. She's direct. I love her for it. She is amazing. Now, at this point here, financially, we were starting to really start to feel the pinch, and I was just like, "Right, okay, we need to kind of get to grips with this." So I then start managing stuff out of the business. So we went from 15 staff to 10 staff, but March '22, we broke all records with our sales, we broke all records with our profits, and created capacity. So it went from our worst year in March '21 to our best year in March '22 with a third less staff. And it was by drilling in the efficiencies of the process of the mindset of the technology to do what we've been doing better and just everything coming together in a really, really nice way. And we've even built capacity to scale again. So that's what we're now doing without needing to recruit. But we have such an infrastructure around us there now.
Graeme Tennick 00:12:08.060 We're now investing a lot of time and effort to work alongside the software companies such as Karbon, such as the likes of Clarity, AIRPA, to try and say, "Look," and say, "This is what we're doing well. Could we offer some input, some feedback, and could we help you guys grow your software? Because by you guys growing your software, grows us as a firm." And we're really starting to get on board with things around that. It's twofold [inaudible], but it's bloody brilliant.
Stuart McLeod 00:12:31.581 Feels so good when it comes together, doesn't it? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:12:34.490 But it feels now as if it's so-- I'm not seeing the wheels cannot come off because the wheels can always come off. But it feels so much sturdier now with regards to what we're actually doing and everybody's on board.
Stuart McLeod 00:12:45.785 It feels more robust.
Graeme Tennick 00:12:47.482 Yeah. But there's a structure. Even in terms of change, we now have a three-step process for any change in our business. The first month has to be one of research, the second month is one of prototype, the third month is one of implementation. With that basic step with regards to change in the business, for which often is led by somebody other than me, it just kind of gets momentum significantly kind of more invested within the business. I absolutely love it.
Stuart McLeod 00:13:13.959 It's amazing. I can see it in your face how much it means to you that this has come together like this for you now.
Graeme Tennick 00:13:20.678 Well, it just allows us to build on our strengths. I mean, my strength is business, not accountancy. It's business. I'm good at accounting since I passed all my exams, and so I can do that. But the conversations I'm having business owners now is totally changing. So rather than chatting about information which has happened, it's now information between now and what could happen in the future. And we are genuinely now starting to change livelihoods rather than just meeting tax and compliance deadlines. And the conversation we have with clients, the feelings we experience and share with clients is unbelievable.
Stuart McLeod 00:13:55.354 Tell us more about that. You don't have to name names. Have you got a favorite story?
Graeme Tennick 00:14:00.181 I think what's your favorite client, I'm going to say, "Stop it, Stuart." I cannot do that. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:14:03.966 Well, they're like kids, aren't they? Some are more equally favorite than others. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:14:08.598 We're definitely not asking that question. [laughter] Favorite one. No, no, no, no. Yeah. So I'll do a generic piece then I'll do a very specific piece. So the generic piece is, I will sit with business owner, right, "This is where you are today. Where do you want to get to?" And they say, "All right. I want to get to here." Then I'll play with the figures and I'll say, "Right. Well, you do realize you could maybe even get to here," and they go, "Oh, wow." Then I'll say, "What would that allow you to do?" and they say, "Oh, right. This, that, [and?] that." And I say, "How would that make you feel? All this. Would you like us to help you get there?" And they say, "Yeah. Let's do it then." And then you start putting at play all of the stuff which I've read in the books and the experience we've got around various things and bring in expertise around several different fields to help them get there. Now, a very specific story for a client who first embraced this journey, they first came to us maybe 7 years ago. They came to us, the records were a mess. [Were out of touch?] of 3 years with the records. They came to us with just carrier bags of receipts. And we weren't even fully on the technology journey as such at that time. We got everything up to speed to then I say it was October, November 2019. I had that conversation I've just went through with you there and I said, "Look, let's see where we can actually take you to." But I said, "It's going to cost you a lot of money, but here's the commitment I'm going to make, if at any point you don't see the value, I'll give you the money back." So there's my commitment. I've never given the money back.
Graeme Tennick 00:15:30.120 So to March '20, again, leading up to pre-COVID, they had a really good year. They had a record year. A really, really good year. And they started seeing the things moving. Then go into a COVID year--
Stuart McLeod 00:15:40.266 What sort of industry? You don't have to name the customer.
Graeme Tennick 00:15:42.933 No, no. It's all right. They're in busy trade. The trade-related business. So they do cladding and things like that. Cladding and flooring. So March '21, they broke the record of March '20, and I said, "Look, this is really good. Let's push again." March '21, they absolutely smashed the year before totally out of the park in a COVID year. Going to March '22, they've done it again. They have went from a business turning over-- they're six-figure, so it's probably like 160 grand turnover. They're plus a million. And I would say probably five X of that has been in over the past 2, 2 and a half years.
Stuart McLeod 00:16:25.554 What was in the conversation that you think was the light bulb moment for them? What was the thing that flicked the switch?
Graeme Tennick 00:16:33.890 I think when I instilled in them the confidence in their own ability to give them the confidence now of ability to support them getting there, they were like, "Well, okay." Because it was very much done in a structured way. They haven't went and got a whole lot of debt to this. I haven't done any of that. The only debt they took on was a Bounce Back Loan, £250,000. And that was just as a safety net and hasn't really been used at all. But I just said, "Look, I've got the confidence in you's to get there because I've seen what you're capable of. It's brilliant, the work you do, and I see you've already done well. If you have the trust and confidence in me, let's see if we can scale this." And now, they've bought second property; in terms of rental property, they've bought a holiday cottage. Sorry, a [small sitter?] cabin. They've got that there. They're on the road to get that Porsche for the other business owner. And all these things, it gives them, I mean, what I've got. And I've got a vision board here. It's like on my vision board, I want to take the kids to Florida, I want to take the kids to Lapland, I want to take them skiing every year, I want financial freedom, I want to see smiles on the face of the kids every single day, and I want to give them experiences, not objects. You can replace objects. You cannot replace experiences.
Graeme Tennick 00:17:40.901 And with that whole mentality, when I visualize that for them and instill the confidence in themselves and then reciprocate the confidence in us, they were just like, "Yeah, let's do this." And I think the role of an accountant has changed now. I'm really passionate about changing lives because if you do 30 years' worth of tax returns and accounts for a client, and then they [clock?] retirement age, they cannot retire when they want with what they want, I don't consider a successful relationship if you never offered to do anything more before-- sorry, if you didn't offer to do anything more. If you offered to do some more and they kept saying no, well, only that cannot be on you. It's like you chose no. But my job role, my responsibility is to give every business owner and every individual I come into contact with the best possible opportunity to lead the best possible life they want to lead. That's my job role. That's what I'm passionate about. That's where I put all my time and effort into, as do our team because we really care. We start as one, we fall as one, and we share and build experiences so that every experience is one where you literally come out bouncing off the wall on a natural high, just saying, "Wow."
Stuart McLeod 00:18:48.633 That confidence in your client that they drew on that and they knew that you were there to support them, firstly, it's never taught in your exams, is it? Obviously. But secondly, the world has changed so dramatically since COVID. Accountants went from compliance and tax returns part through advisory, to psychologist, to therapist, to friend, to distributor of stimulus funds. And now, as we come out, what I'm hearing from you, Graeme, is that journey, that relationship with your client to instill that confidence for them to just grow and be better and work with them in that way is an amazing impact on the world. It really is.
Graeme Tennick 00:19:41.295 As long as we continue to embrace it. And I think the world needs to take COVID for what it was. COVID was a lesson. And it's a lesson we should learn from and adapt and change. Don't let it be just a negative experience. Frame it in such a way to be better.
Stuart McLeod 00:19:54.880 Yeah. Everybody's experience was different, but those that lost whole families and all kinds of things are going to frame that differently to those that experience business difficulty, right? But you're right. For those of us lucky enough to be relatively unscathed, and now we layer in some of the horrific news of the world of [laughter] all kinds of things going on, right? It can be difficult to get out of bed and say, "Okay. Well, I can only control what I can control. I've got to ignore all the wars, the recessions, the interest rates." It can be difficult and people do struggle with that. But what you're saying is like, "Okay. Within our ability, we can control what we can control. And to sustain mental health and be positive and help our clients is just one of the greatest gifts that we have. To use our skills to help others is one of the greatest things we can do," right?
Graeme Tennick 00:21:01.234 Yeah. Totally. And I think going back a couple of steps was you mentioned health-wise, and sadly, those people that have lost loved ones. But the same lesson in terms of what I was saying before, I think, is that they would still repeat the message of this. That alone, having lost loved ones, I'm sure they look back very fondly on the times they had with those same loved ones and wish they could have had more of those. So framing that back to a business perspective slash person perspective, we should be adapting our business and personal lives so we appreciate the times we have with loved ones, make the most of those, and do as much as we can to build those sort of experiences which have the greatest meaning. So I think out of every horrible slash positive experience, there are lessons to channel for [which we'll?] all support one another [do?]. I mean, one of the books I'm reading at the moment-- I presume you might have read it because if you haven't, you've inadvertently made references to certain sections in it, is The Obstacle Is The Way by Ryan Holiday. Have you read that?
Stuart McLeod 00:21:55.452 I haven't, but I'm aware of it. Yeah. Tell me.
Graeme Tennick 00:21:58.373 Well, I mean, again, I can tell you any number of phrases, but I appreciate the time for the record. But I mean, there's certain things, and that talks about control the controllables. And out of a lot of adversity has come some amazing success from generations prior. So when you actually refer back to those, we could be led by the press, we could focus on that, but instead, we can actually shape things, do the best we can with the tools we have and the circumstances we face to make a difference. So we don't have to just accept and lie down and have things happen to us. We could make things happen because of us. And whatever the circumstances, however negative that is, nobody never take away the choice from us. And there's some examples in that book whereby-- I can't remember the individual's name, but somebody was wrongly imprisoned for around 19 years, and the one thing he refused to let them do is ever take his freedom insofar as his mind. So he kept his mind strong throughout that whole journey. And that's something we all still have. We're still fortunate enough to have that. So let's make the most of it.
Stuart McLeod 00:23:04.554 How do you instill those messages in your team?
Graeme Tennick 00:23:07.027 It starts with, ironically, listening rather than speaking. It was a lesson I learned quite a while ago because I could be very passionate and be quite forceful in terms of my own thoughts. But somebody told me a long time ago, we have two ears and one mouth for a reason.
Stuart McLeod 00:23:21.407 That sounds like something your mother would have said to the Graemes. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:23:24.770 Oh, probably. Yeah. But we didn't use either ear in terms of that. But yeah, I listen to the team and then I'll challenge them. I won't necessarily accept what they see. I will push back if I feel that's right to do so. But I listen. And it's the same with clients. If you listen first, speak second, so much more can come from that.
Stuart McLeod 00:23:42.066 Team of 10 at the moment. It sounds like a great set of clients. Sounds like you're somebody that would really focus heavily on only working with people that you and the team enjoy working with and are a good fit for your business, and you're also somebody that will set out a vision and a plan, I imagine. What does that look like over the next couple of years?
Graeme Tennick 00:24:05.485 Sure. This is fascinating because with it being our 10th birthday this year, we threw a 10th birthday party for ourselves and for our clients, and also, we're doing annual clients awards evening. What we did then was we shared our vision. So there's a series of videos which will be going live very soon and a professional video. So our vision is to create sustainable legacies for which ourselves as a firm, and individually, our clients, friends, and family thereof would be proud of. And that is built around three-- I mean there's lots of areas but I can almost kind of segment into three for the purposes of this. The first one is generations. We should learn from generations in the past because I published my granddad's poems on the awards evening, and the whole proceeds just go to charity. But we should learn from generations of the past to influence the generations now to then influence generations of the future because there's a lot of lessons. We do need to kind of forget about the past. We've got a lot to learn. The second thing is from a business perspective. We need to recognize that we need to have a 360 viewpoint in terms of business. So let's look backwards, let's look here, but then let's look forward, then also, let's look all around us. Let's look outside. [inaudible] just our area of expertise. Bring other things in to really kind of help.
Graeme Tennick 00:25:15.438 The third thing is from a 360 viewpoint, which again, is the same for a lot of what we do. We need to look outside of ourselves insofar as let's make this world a better place. So again, it's one of the things and one of the vision I said at the end was, I want to help build better business and personal lives, and ultimately, I want to leave this world in a better place than the state it was in when I arrived in it.
Stuart McLeod 00:25:36.813 How does that manifest? Is that a number of clients? Is it type of clients? Is it type of staff? Or do you think that the abstract vision will allow you to just sort of be wherever that takes you, the types of clients that you work with as long as they fit the bill of great to work with and that are amenable to your influence, to your skills? That you may as well apply your capacity to people who want to utilize it, right? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:26:10.869 Yeah. Definitely. And we're still building this out a little bit but our three core clients where we try to focus our efforts on are trade and trade-related businesses because we have experience of them. And typically, we want ones where they've got at least a couple of members of the team so they want to scale. The next one is service-based business but typically, professional service-based businesses that actually support the professional industry such as accountants. The third one is technology businesses because again, we work so closely with them, we've got expertise around it. So that's the types of businesses we want to actually kind of work with. And at this moment in time, we're going to start that out with 3-year forecast. [inaudible] beyond that yet because we're just starting to scale up in terms of where that's going to be. So we want to is see it multiply threefold within 3 years.
Stuart McLeod 00:26:53.947 Yeah. So 30 staff-ish.
Graeme Tennick 00:26:55.816 No. Threefold in terms of figures. I don't think we need to do it in terms of staff. So because of the capacity we've created, we believe certainly within the next year, we may not need to recruit because of the extra capacity we've created. I suspect that within the next 3 years-- and again, we're still [inaudible] till the operational bit so we kind of find out a bit more detail. I don't think we'll need to multiply our staff by three. At best, I would say maybe another 50%. I think we could do with that because of efficiencies we're finding. And what we're tending to do, and this sounds terrible when I say, we're what chopping, but because we know more of our niche, we're trying to do more with the right sort of clients and realizing we are moving away from some of our original clients who will be a better fit for other firms. So we work with other firms. [inaudible] across.
Stuart McLeod 00:27:38.445 What a generous person you are giving them your clients. But you've got to do it. You've got to do what you-- this is a theme that we see with the people that I talk to that demonstrate the passion for the business like you do, the love for their clients, the joy that they experience going to work are the ones that focus very heavily on just having clients that they enjoy working with. And in order to do that, there's perhaps not an annual call, but there's at least a sort of every 2 years call of clients that no longer fit the bill of where you want to take the firm, right? So some of them even embrace that as a ritual and have an annual offcast party or [laughter] whatever you want to call it, right? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:28:31.400 But life's too short, so I think that honesty and that transparency is what's really needed. And I think with that in mind, it happens everywhere else so I just kind of think, "Why the heck? Let's just kind of just do that." And life's too short and this is what I say. I think as long as it's done honestly. So what I say to clients, I say, "Look, with where we're going and where we can add influence, naturally, we're restricted resources-wise as you are time and money. I don't feel that I can serve you the way I once did, so it would be disrespectful of me to say that I can. However, I'm not just passing you to somebody I don't know. This firm, I think, they've got a similar vision to us insofar as how they treat their clients. So if I was a client and I was with us, I would go with them too." But at least that way-- but then also, the client has a choice but it just means we can focus our efforts. If we use it as a comparison, but it's not totally fair-- and it goes back to Karbon, actually. The whole triage functionality. With the triage functionality, you cannot save everybody necessarily. And so we've got to be fair and be reasonable but give everybody a chance to be saved. Ooh, I like that. I might use that.
Stuart McLeod 00:29:36.076 There you go. [laughter] We'll put that in our marketing. There's so much more to cover. Let's do the cars quickly.
Graeme Tennick 00:29:41.872 I'll have to jump off about quarter past, Stuart. Just a word of warning just time-wise. Otherwise, I'll be in [bother?] for my next meeting.
Stuart McLeod 00:29:46.742 No, no, no. Let's do another couple here because I love the passion that you talk about the firm with and your clients. What's favorite car? Go.
Graeme Tennick 00:29:57.620 Ooh, favorite car. Very good question. It was an Aston Martin until I drove one and realized the build quality's really poor. So I am going to go for a Range Rover. Range Rover Vogue. Lovely car.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:09.151 Oh, there you go. Like a newish one or like an '80s sort of the rectangular '80s one? [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:30:16.205 I'm not having the box. No, no. [laughter] I'm not having that. And so no. The one that is there. They've made it really fashionable. One of those there now. Yeah. The comfort, the speed.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:24.989 Oh, yes. The massage seats and everything. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:30:29.512 Or you'll just be asleep just like, "Oh, I've got to drive."
Stuart McLeod 00:30:32.052 Yeah. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:30:35.352 Yeah, if I'm going to go Range Rover-- actually I'm going to flip that around. Same to you though. I'm going to ask you the same question. Favorite car.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:40.617 Well, controversial view. I drive a Tesla Plaid at the moment, right? So naught to 100Ks, 60 miles in less than two seconds. Fastest legal thing on the road. I've used it twice. My kids get carsick in it. It's the stupidest car that I've ever had. It's also the most fun. I've had people in the passenger seat just [laughter] freak out at the pace that you get. I love it. I completely believe in cars going green and electric and all that, but I reckon there's going to be some nostalgia over the coming years for combustion engines. So I'm going to say like a early '80s 911 with a whale tail or something like that. Just something mid-six, raw energy, all of that kind of thing, I reckon.
Graeme Tennick 00:31:35.476 So what, like the one out of Commando? The yellow one out of Commando. Yep, that one.
Stuart McLeod 00:31:39.449 Yeah, the yellow or pale blue with a huge whale tail out the back, and I want to say five-speed, stick, and all of that. Just something that was built just to be a car. So there's not much electrics in it, it's just to be driven, right? Just properly driven. [laughter] And I think the industry has sort of forgotten about that feeling. But I love my Plaid. I do. I'll probably buy another one when the lease is up. [laughter]
Graeme Tennick 00:32:10.973 I'm going to have to have a look. I can't even visualize it. I'll have to have a look after this. I'm going to have a look later on.
Stuart McLeod 00:32:15.358 That's the Tesla S, but it's the Plaid mode, which is after Lunatic mode or something like that. I have to drive it in chill mode 99% of the time, otherwise, my kids get carsick and [laughter] throw up all over the leather. [laughter] But my wife's got the Defender because we live in Incline Village, which we actually get to use the proper four-wheel [laughter] drive in winter. [laughter] Well, Graham, we've got so many more podcasts with topics that have come up in our time together today. I so much appreciate you sharing your vision and thoughts on the industry as well as where your business is going. I love the aspects of sharing your clients' journey with us and I'd love to do more of that very soon if we can.
Graeme Tennick 00:33:07.435 We could do 10 podcasts. Count me in. I love these sort of things, Stuart. Next time, I'm going to keep [marks based on?] one side as well because I say, I got a chat for England. I've got a chat the world on this. England, US, Australia. Count me in. Get me the T-shirt and I'll be flying the flag. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:33:23.704 We've got T-shirts to give. I'll make sure we get you one up there. Graeme Tennick, thank you so much for joining us on the Accounting Leaders Podcast today.
Graeme Tennick 00:33:31.707 Thank you very much for having me, Stuart. It's been a pleasure. [music]
Stuart McLeod 00:33:40.203 Thanks for listening to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting, fun, you'll find lots more to help you run a successful accounting firm at Karbon Magazine. There are more than a thousand free resources there including guides, articles, templates, webinars, and more. Just head to karbonhq.com/resources. [music] I'd also love it if you could leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to this podcast. Let us know you like this session. We'll be able to keep bringing you more guests for you to learn from and get inspired by. Thanks for joining and see you on the next episode of the Accounting Leaders Podcast.