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Dave West is a Semi-Pro Youtube and Downwind Foiling Sensation from Australia. He joins us to talk about:
- Downwind Foiling Basics
- How learning to downwind foil can be challenging, but achieving small milestones provides a sense of satisfaction.
- Board length and stability are important factors to consider when choosing equipment for downwind foiling.
- Reading the ocean and understanding the energy of the bumps is crucial for successful downwind foiling.
- Safety precautions, such as using a leash and wearing protective gear, are essential in downwind foiling.
- The role fuses and tails play
- His Youtube Channel
- And Much More.
This episode is brought to you by the Wing Foil Expedition in La Ventana, Baja California Sur. Are you looking for an all-inclusive wing foiling adventure this January with oceanfront accommodations? Visit https://winglifepodcast.com/wing-foil-trips to learn more.
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Creators & Guests
Host
Luc Moore
I started windsurfing in 2012, a year after my brother and I visited Kauai, Hawaii. In 2009 I was involved in a fatal motorcycle accident that required two intensive surgeries to stabilize my pelvis. Three years later, I was still heavily engaged in rehab, but I had been cleared to walk by my orthopedic surgeon, so we finally decided to visit the islands. My brother had just started windsurfing, so we started looking online for gear for him, and we came across a woman selling late her husband's equipment. She recounted to us that his life had been spent on the ocean. As a pro windsurfer, his love and passion for the sport were undeniable. At that point, I thought I could try this sport and carry on his legacy of love for the water and wind if I worked hard enough. Initially, I couldn't ride with my harness on without experiencing terrible low back pain. I was terrified of the water, knew nothing about wind, and if I got moving at any speed, scenes of my accidents would replay in my mind, which lasted for years. It took a lot of work to differentiate fact from fiction. To add to this mess of emotions, numerous specialists and acquaintances had repeatedly told me that I was now broken. I could never jog pain-free again, let alone enjoy pain-free sports. They told me to accept that as my truth and to move on. My mom and brother helped me keep going as our shared passions, and family support helped me overcome obstacles. The pure joy I felt with my continued progress on the water helped those wounds begin to heal. In time, windsurfing felt so good physically and psychologically that it would bring me to tears on the water. I would spend hours practicing the basics and quickly improve. This sport was one of the catalysts that helped accelerate my healing process. When my skills had reached the great lake level, I started sailing with my neighbour Danny. He is one of the best windsurfers in eastern Ontario and travels worldwide, pursuing his passion in his spare time. In 2018 when Wing Foiling first came out, I quickly felt like this sport would take my love for wind and water to the next level. Our Co-Host Tom helped me find gear and gave me my first intro lesson! I quickly picked up the sport and learnt the basics. I then contacted some kite schools on Vancouver Island (Elevation Kiteboarding & Windrider Kiteboarding) and started teaching for them! Shortly after, Tom and I created the Wing Life podcast to help share our stoke and knowledge of wind sports with others.
What is The Wing Life Podcast?
Our podcast is dedicated to the sport of Wing Foiling. Tune in as we interview top athletes, equipment designers, brand managers and every day enthusiasts from around the globe. Hosted by Luc Moore
Luc Moore (00:00.424)
do you have a jingle? You can make one up on the fly if you want. We should start there with the jingle. on. Welcome to the Foil... What is it? Wing Life podcast.
Luc Moore (00:21.294)
you
Welcome to the Wing Life Podcast, where we talk about wing foiling and the lifestyles of those who enjoy this great sport. I was gonna call it the foil life podcast. All right, brother. It's nice to finally meet you, man. I've seen you on YouTube and everywhere else and thanks for coming on. My pleasure. Well, good to be here.
Yeah. So it's like midday over there. It's like 6 a over here in Mexico, whatever these time zones are. can never get them straight. It's actually what time is it? Mexico. Yeah. Just in Laventana, Mexico for another month. So it is five. What? Five to all. Where was I sitting in Canadian times? So I keep my laptop on on Eastern Standard Time because I work remote. It's all my.
Like people are back East in Canada. So I keep that there. But, and if I start switching, I start missing stuff and it's so anyways, anyway, to one and stay with it. Pretty much it's eight 12. I go to bed at 10, which is 7pm local time. So, you know, we do what we got to do. You're there just surfing. Yeah.
Yeah, it finally came down. I had a bunch of buddies that have come here forever and they're like, you have to come down and check out this spot. So, I'm at Latuna, which is a launch. So it's a big ass Bay. So I'm kind of like up, up in the, I don't know, five, six kilometres off the main beach. So we do a bunch of downwinders. Normally I do like wing foil downwinders and then upwinders after it takes me about 45 minutes to climb about five, six K, but I'm gassed.
Luc Moore (02:10.446)
So I'm going to get a harness maybe next year talking about downwind foiling. It's a fricking Mecca out here. It's, it's a super easy one to do. The road follows all the way around. can get picked up at the beach and then there's a massive beach at the bottom. So it doesn't matter where you end up, but it's, pretty sick. I imagine. Yes. They got so far, like primarily I'm on a three meter wing all the time. I'm about 150 pounds.
I have a bigger a little bit of a bigger foil like a gen one Armstrong. But yeah, yeah, like they when it goes off, it'll be 2025. I haven't seen too many big days so far. Like apparently they get some 3035. But I haven't seen those yet this year. But I'm going to come back next November and spend the winter. So I'm sure I'll get some bigger days then but where I live on the sunny coast, a three meter like never comes out maybe once or twice a year, if you're lucky. really?
Yeah. Hence the downwind. It's not a windy place. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think downwind, even if you downwind with a wing, the the limits of what you can go out in have changed so much in the last two years. You know, like, I used to think it was you needed 20 knots or she couldn't go out and have a good time. Whereas I can say with, you know, we regularly go out in eight knots. And it's just a totally
It's a different experience and there is always, there's pretty much always enough energy to go downwind. It's just whether or not it's too unsure. That's usually the issue. But as long as there's wind going one direction, there'll be some sort of energy there and there'll be some sort of foil that you can ride that will get you down there. But the risk with the wing is that you can't get up if the wind dies. Whereas with the paddle, there's still enough residual wave energy that you can still get up again. So that's the catch.
is if you ever want to get into true light light wind down winging, you probably have to learn the sub paddle or get a four drive or something like that. Yeah, that's fair. That's the limitation. And you guys got good groundswell and stuff like actual swell here. It's all kind of driven for the most part. So if it dies, it kind of flattens out pretty quick. But yeah, some people so like a buddy of mine, Alex TV, he loves it when there's groundswell. And I hate it.
Luc Moore (04:36.622)
really, I actually find they're the days that I fall a lot because you've got wind bumps, which are all stacked and close together. And then you'll have this huge groundswell come through. And what it does is it eats up the little bumps. It's sort of like they get absorbed as the swell comes through and you end up with these huge flat spots. And you're always sort of chasing the big swells. But I like the days where there's no swell and it's just wind swell. And it's just fun and surfy and it's predictable.
And they're the days I really like, whereas we like we did a run the other day and it was it was about 30 knots actually, but it was all over the place. It was, it was horrible. It's the worst any of us have ever seen it. And it's like a mountain of a groundswell would come through and then one would come from a different direction. It was like, it's like you're trying to run across the top of mountains. It's like, yeah, people don't really, people that haven't been out like wide on the ocean that much, you probably, they don't really understand. It's like,
six to eight foot tall bumps and you're like trying to traverse them to make it over and down the back. it's pretty stressful. How, how'd you get into all this? my God. The pretty much I've got on that classic. I've got a long history of extreme sports. So skateboarding, wakeboarding, snowboarding, all of that. There's not a lot of great snow in Australia, but
My main one was kiteboarding and wakeboarding growing up. So just obsessed, used to, you know, ride for us every day, which is why my arms don't straighten anymore. you that's as straight as my elbows go. You got a background in health. Too much muscle there. If only it's this left arm's wasting away a bit. But anyway, we'll fix it. Yeah. And then yeah, it's sort of like I was one of those classic that COVID hit and foiling just sort of
I saw somebody falling one day and I was like, I'm going to do that. And I went and bought a setup the next day, much to my wife's dissatisfaction. And yeah, I was that classic foil brain for two hard years. Like I'm sort of at the three and a half year mark now. And I think most people they do like two years that they're just like, that's all I thought about for two years was foiling and trying to get better at foiling and, and then down -winding.
Luc Moore (06:57.582)
So I started prone and winging at the same time and sort of like I got, was, I'm an okay winger by about the nine month mark and prone, always just loved prone. That was my, that's my favorite by far. And I just got, I got bored of winging because a lot of the time when we get waves and the wind's good, it's like a head wind.
but there's one spot and it's a bay that wraps around. So when you're on the wave coming this way, you're going straight into a 20 knot headwind. Okay. It's just not that fun because you got this wing flapping behind you. And, and then when you try and turn, you look, shaving off speed, but so is the wind shaving off speed on you as well. So you just sort of couldn't really do any sort of fun, real turns or anything and everything felt really slow. And I just sort of, I sort of lost interest.
because of that, it's just wasn't that like it's, we're a decent spot to wing, but, I knew freestyle wasn't going to be my thing. Yeah. And I just, that freestyle hell no. That shit's intense. Just like, yeah. Ankles just get busted up and I've already got so many old injuries from that. And so wave riding really is what I love.
It's the freedom. I did do some, not much downwinding with a wing. And I was doing that classic, you get wrapped up in it and sort of gets, you want to go left and there's a wing that wants to go in behind you. And it just really annoyed me to the point where I just, I knew that it was going to be worth it for me to go after the sub paddle and
And then when I had a few runs where I'd, you know, sort of achieved some, you know, some kilometers, I just went, this is, this is the best true freedom. There's nothing hanging off you. I really loved it. And, yeah, it's, it's so difficult. Like one of my most sort of quoted videos is the one where I talked about downwinding and how hard it was and how much I hated it. sounds intense. was, it was,
Luc Moore (09:21.902)
I was getting payoffs though. So downwind is like horrible for how it depends on where you do it, but it can be really horrible to learn for a while. And then you get these little payoffs, like you'll get a kilometer on foil and you're just like, this is the best. And then you'll go backwards. Usually it's sort of, you know, two steps forward, one step back. But I think it's like three steps back, like two steps forward. That's what it actually feels like. And
And I think it was, it was just like, get enough of a little dopamine rush from those little achievements that it keeps you going. But if you, there's a lot of people that they reach the wall and they just go, nah, I'm going to go to hand paddles or I'm going to go back to the wing. And I think they're missing out on the true experience of down -winding, which is to have total freedom with your hands, other than holding a paddle where you can sheath it if you want. You got harnesses for that?
But yeah, yeah, I think Sim Boogie. Do you know Simian? Have you seen the Hawaiian guy? No, I don't think so. Yeah, probably heard of him. He's an F1 rider. He always has it on his back. He's got like a little, I think it looks like a rubber tire and he just straps it on It's so light too. But I've always wondered if people could do that. Yeah, you wouldn't even notice. People could do it with a wing, like a little clip and then it would just sit there. That'd be amazing. inflated, you mean? If that happened.
You can yeah. Yeah, let's just say how your wing and just let it fly behind you and if it would actually stay there if somebody designed a wing company is listening because there's tons of all this thing about you. Design a wing that will just sit there and you could just downwind. That'd be fun. Pretty close. strikes do that they just kind of sit there. They don't move. They sit there so well that they're hard to turn. Yeah.
Well, I've never used a F1, unfortunately. So like, I haven't tried it yet, but like I can see the freedom when I'm downwinding with my wing and I'm like here because the bumps are maybe, I don't know, waist to shoulder on a decent day that I've had so far. And my old wing doesn't glide that far, but still it gives me enough of a taste. I'm actually hand wing out of the way, but I'm starting to read what's going on.
Luc Moore (11:49.73)
because it's like, okay, so I can catch this bump here. I can connect to this one over on the right, or I can connect to this one over on the left. And they gave a clinic here at Salladio to Kite School with a Cain to Wild and Gabriella came down and I saw them one night going down. Yeah, I saw them one doing that little run. like how big for the basics, I don't know anything. So it's like, let's start maybe from the top of how big of a...
swell do you need to make it reasonably fun and a bit easier to learn? Or is it just the fact that you're going to get caught in the middle and just have to learn how to pump and paddle and blah, The easiest conditions to learn is when there's, it's actually not too windy. So like 15 knots is perfect. So if you've had 12 to 15 knots running for two, three hours in most places, as long as there's enough water like fetch.
They're the best bumps to learn in and no underlying groundswell. So that's actually the conditions you want. You just want pure wind chop, which I just call wind swell. And, and that makes it so that you've got really clearly defined peaks and troughs. So when you look to your right and to your left, you'll literally just see this, there's like little scooped out bits and then there's top bits. And if you can learn in those conditions,
It sounds like you'll get those submissions. You'll jump leaps and bounds in a short timeframe. But the ocean very rarely cooperates in most people's places.
but like people on lakes, they'll say, I can never downwind. And they're actually the easiest conditions to learn in as long as there's sufficient wind because everything's so organized. You don't have all these, you know, you don't have refraction off rocks and you've just got wind bumps. And when you can learn in those conditions, it'll, it'll be really easy comparatively. Yeah. guess that makes sense with, with groundswell if it's running and yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying.
Luc Moore (14:01.774)
Yeah, because Lake on like the Great Lakes in the center of like US and Canada there, they would be phenomenal for this because they get six, eight, 10 foot swell. then like an every brand now is just coming out with a brand new kind of downwind board. What have you seen over the evolution of it that makes a board or a foil or anything more suitable for beginners to let's say get into it?
Luc Moore (14:30.734)
It's, it's actually been really fun. I've sort of been able to be a part of the sort of the evolution of downwind boards for a little tiny piece. But I think the longer, the better. I'm pretty, I got pretty strong opinions about this, but that's cause I'm heavy. I'm 95 kilos and I don't know what a 75 kilo rider experiences, but I do know that heavier riders, you always want to size up. say, say you're 75 kilos.
You might go, seven, eight board is sufficiently long. And I don't think that's the case when you get heavier. think you should size up your board quite significantly. The heavier you are, it doesn't have to be the volume necessarily. So the trend is towards the eight foot six, eight foot eight mark. And I think beginners shouldn't be aiming for short fat boards, like say seven foot by 22, because they go, that'll be stable. You're actually
This stability comes from length quite a lot. So my eight foot, so my daily board is an eight foot six bullet that's 19 wide and it's really stable. And that's not just me saying that like it's actually genuinely stable. Cause I had a Sultan up seven six and that was way less stable because it was shorter. So the length of the board really is giving so much stability that beginners
should be looking at longer boards and you're not going to outgrow that board. You're actually gonna, cause yeah, you're going to grow into it. Cause I think a lot of beginners are like, I'll get a wide board cause it'll be stable. the, the way you actually get stability when you're learning to downwind is by moving forwards. And so if you have a board that naturally actually wants to be moving forward with the bumps, so say you stand up and say you've got a really short fat board, it won't want to get moving. So it's actually,
creating instability because it won't move forwards. As soon as that board gets a little bit of forward movement, it'll actually stable up. So the longer your board is, the more naturally even just standing without even paddling, you'll start to feel yourself moving like a little bit of forward motion, which is going to you stability. So I think a lot of beginners are scared of the long boards and they should they should be running to them. They should be going here, go eight, six, go nine foot. Don't be scared of that way that length. And even if you're on the lakes,
Luc Moore (16:57.998)
Don't be scared of it because this notion that tight pack bumps in your short board. It's not the case. It's fun. If you can do it, it's really fun. But we've got a spot that's really tight packed bumps. It's like a river that runs out and then wind goes up. And I've been riding my 86 board and trying to, you know, I can surf it. foil, foil wise, bigger is better when you're learning.
but to a point, because then there's a point where, so just getting a paddle up is like the hardest thing in the beginning. Just getting on foil, you're just like, my gosh, I got on foil. And then very quickly it becomes, okay, how the, do I stay on foil? That was my next question. Exactly. And that's the hardest thing. And then what happens is those foils that are big and lifty and chunky, they start to then work against you really quickly.
because let's say the bumps are moving at 22 kilometers an hour. I can use kilometers because you're Canadian. Even though we have listeners from everywhere, it's all right. Not miles, 15 miles. We gotta be good to our Americans too, So say, no, stuff like that. We're not part of we don't care, we? Yeah, so the bumps just say moving at, I don't know, 22 kilometers an hour, but your foil can only do 15 kilometers an hour. yeah, okay. And what ends up...
happening is everything just moves underneath you. So you're cruising along and the bumps just go underneath you and then you're like, and that's what happens when you're a beginner. Yeah, you're just like, you'll hear people say, I feel like I'm always pumping uphill. And that's because they're either not cutting across, or they're trying to go straight and their foil is not fast enough. And then they just they're always chasing the back of bumps. So that's why the beginner stages are so difficult because you don't know what you don't know.
And people can tell you in theory, but until you experience it out in the bumps, it just does, it's like another language. Reading the ocean is like literally learning a language. It's taken me two years and still it presents me with sentences that I don't understand. So that's normal. I guess. at, at the start, are you, so what you're saying is you're finding that the foils are too slow. People are trying to go straight down.
Luc Moore (19:22.998)
rather than use the energy by going left or right and trying to pick up a bit more speed by turning harnessing that power by moving? Yeah, left kind of thing. okay. So, so pretty much like there's always energy somewhere, but so there's energy that will project you forwards and there's energy that will store you out. That's sort of the two that exist in very simplistic terms. And so you're always a lot of what people do in the beginning and people do this with the wing a lot because they can have it above their head.
is they start to like go over stuff that if you didn't have the power of the wing, you wouldn't be able to. So when you're cutting across, it's because if you didn't cut like left or right, you'd be going into an uphill. Because every every bump, you can be on the back end of it. And obviously, you're not going to be getting lift, or you can be on the front and you're going to be getting lift. That's good. So we want to be here.
Yeah. It's very easy to go down a bump and go straight into the back of the line in front of you. And that's what most people do. And they'll say they're pumping uphill and they literally are. So they've gone down a bump and rather than traverse across and, you know, use that, use that and go across it. They go straight down it. I'm sorry for the podcast listeners. I've got my hands in the air. Like I just don't care. out of bumps. I'm making bump shapes.
So this will make no sense. very descriptive. Yeah. There's ways to stay with a bump, which is, as you say, to like draw S's on the bump. you're just like the same way you are on a wave. You're staying in the power zone. So you go left and right and you stay on the same bump. You can just surf that bump. The other way is obviously you just traverse that bump. So you just go straight across it. And so on big bumps, that's what you tend to do. The only way you can really go straight.
is if you're matching the speed of the bump. That's probably the main thing. So your foil, even though it's a big, thick foil, it'll still outrun some bumps, especially in the bay type setting that you're in. And that's why you have to surf. Because if you surf, you'll stay with that energy. Whereas if you go straight, you just run in the back of the one in front. yeah, I'm not saying that those foils are very surfy and it'll do exactly what you find.
Luc Moore (21:49.614)
As soon as you get out into ocean energy, like proper ocean energy, it'll work against you so much. And you'll be like, holy moly, my legs are so tired. then it's just, it's trying to match your foil as best you can with the dominant energy that's in the ocean. That's a good point to note. Yeah. Because there's always multiple sources. There's the groundswell.
you know, and sometimes it's all moving at a similar speed. That's awesome. That's when you go super fast. And that's when you crash, it really hurts. And then some days, you know, it's just slow and you just need a slow foil. Because when you you can still use a small foil, but you end up just up and over. So you're just trying to pump over the top of everything. Or you're trying to surf really hard. So it's, it's just matching. That's, that's the goal. And that takes ages to figure out.
It takes years, I think. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So then, but even then learning what bump and how high to sit on your foil, like where to put your foil in the end or tricks and stuff and tips and tricks for that. Because if you're on a longer mast, does it matter if your mast is like if your board super close to the water or is it better if you're a little bit higher up or? Well, that depends. So.
Yeah, yeah, because sometimes you are trying to slow yourself down. But when I'm on my, when I'm on a 1051 Pro, which is a very fast foil for its size, I have to dip down lower to slow down or else I just shoot down bumps so fast that I can't really control that speed. And so I'll even drag my paddle sometimes, like I have to slow myself down because sometimes you just get so much inertia when it
This is the advantage of being heavy when it's It's like when you're getting, when you're getting pitted, bro, that's what they say. That's it feels like when you crash down winning people don't understand. Like you're going 40 Ks an hour. So these are towing speeds. Like these are the speeds you tow at.
Luc Moore (24:11.192)
and then you're crashing on an eight foot six board and with a paddle in your hand, it freaking hurts like boom. Anyway. Yeah. So you're obviously doing the X kind of formation. yeah. Protecting your face and all that jazz. This is a hot tip. I told a friend the other day and he never heard it. I said, what I do is when I crash, if my board goes down in front of me, cause of the leash, I pull the paddle up across me.
And what it does is the paddle actually acts like a little bit of a shield if it shoots back at you. Cause you know, if your leggy coils up and comes back at you and it actually happened the other day that the foil shot back at me and I had the paddle up in front of me and it caught the So dent is my $4 ,000, $4 ,000, ultra carbon mask though. So I wasn't happy there, but I probably was going to cop that to the face. So yes.
All right, that's a good the one time like I like I do that all the time. So as soon as I fall, I'll cross my arms or whatever. The one time I don't do that, like two weeks ago, I took the foil right to the lip. It's like, come on. The only time I don't do it. So yeah, yeah, everybody like yeah, cross your arms. Definitely. Okay, so 10. I'll tell you this one friend of mine, he rides for PPC. Trent, he actually copped the rear wing up under his arm last week.
And like, they do they couldn't find the bottom of it. So you had to get internal stitches and we were saying to him, you're really lucky because obviously, you know, you've got the breakable archery in there. He you know, and that was a downwind run two kilometers out to see if he'd pop that it was game over. You know, because you can't tourniquet can't tourniquet shoulder. So be warned. It was Armstrong.
buddy Armstrong to show up too fast and to performance. Sponsorships available. podcast. Call, call the first time writing access and I love them. Like I wrote a three or four or five different so there's Brittany here who is like an access rep kind of thing and she does a lot of demos here and I think in the gorge with her partner.
Luc Moore (26:32.27)
And, so I tried that one and I was on a 58 liter seek from North and, cause that's what the salad data kite school had when I came down here just to check it out. But I tried their HAs fairly bigger ones, like 12 or 13 and then down to the 10 51 I've tried. And then I think some of the smaller art pros as well. And overall super fast, obviously.
I could tip out easily. If I overfoiled, they would go back in the water, you know, shit that my stuff doesn't do just cause it's an older dad, but it does its trick. But like, yeah, I was pretty impressed with them actually. Adrian's an awesome guy and they're putting out good product. yeah, for sure. It's I think access sometimes does gets, it doesn't get credit. It deserves for the performance end of things. You know, like the art pros, the art pros probably.
didn't get the, we'll call it the market time that they deserved. Cause I remember I had a friend ask me, he's like, so when's Axis coming out with downwind wings? It's like, they already have. The Art Pros are really the excellent downwind wings. They're very fast, they're very good at up and overing. And they're a little bit harder to paddle up than some other foils. But with that you get,
this what feels like an endless top end. Obviously that's not true. I'm just, you know, that's hyperbole, but it does. They, they, they tend not to have a, the pitching moment that other foils can have that have a lot of low end. and they, just great downwind foils, but obviously when you're on a two year old foil, anything that you're on these days, that's from any brand is probably phenomenal. Excellent.
Exactly. Aspect ratio, 11, 12, 13 is so good for downwind and it really changes downwinding to a different type of sport. It's actually just a different sport now. I always wonder if, because you know how everything goes and swings around about like surfing did, we went fish boards and then we went all the way through to banana surfboards that were 16 wide.
Luc Moore (28:48.728)
And then it went back to fishboards. reckon one day people are going to come back to the foil you're on and that's going to be the thing. I'm on this super cruiser, slow thing. I just want to cruise. So hold on to it. Give it to you. never know. No getting pitted for Canadians. All right. That's right. You have pretty, you have pretty big waves. Don't you on the, on the West coast, West coast. Yeah. They get some decent stuff.
It's her up in like Vancouver, Allen, Tofino, Long beach area. get some decent sized now it's like, I don't know, four degrees, five, six, seven degrees. The water's super cold. but you get some good stuff there. Definitely. But even at like Lake Ontario, where we go, I've just seen the biggest. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Look up, look up. Yeah. And, so what is it can have up to 20, 25.
foot swell there. I've had some insane days. The place we go to a sand banks is it's a it's a point break. So the waves are the swells coming in, it wraps around and then we have all these like lowers, uppers and middles and stuff. Wave breaks, then they break on these limestone shells. Honestly, it's a really, really good spot. Like wind is side short, a slight side off and we started winging there. And that's when I realized that I wasn't that good because
Like my girlfriend at the time was filming on the shore and I was going down in this head high thing and they said, I turned, I turned it fucking straight down the thing. Cause I didn't think it's insanely quick, but I'm going to try down winning, try down winning next year. I should pick up a board and, do you find that the weight board in the length actually helps with glide as well? Comparative to cause I was on some of those access foils, but I had a short little wing board.
And I didn't find the glide sensational, but I'm pretty sure that if you're on this bigger kind of canoe type board, does that help? Or is it the micro movements that you're doing? You, you feel the more or generates more power. I think it's deceiving. I think on a big board, it dampens out any twitchiness, which I think like glide.
Luc Moore (31:09.238)
I suspect that a foil is going to glide about the same as long as it's balanced and your feet are in the right position, about the same, even if there's a one or two kilo difference in the board. I do think that the thickness and the weight of the board acts as like a lever arm that dampens out what you feel and it would feel more gliding. So I have when I've, when I've done prone down windows on like the one, one, two, one art pro feels twitchy as I'm like, this thing's twitchy and it's feels wobbly.
But then I put on my downwind board, I'm like smooth as butter. And I just think it's the board. Yeah. But you think about it, you've got this little counter lever that can absorb it versus, you know, little top. It's going to feel everything. That's my, that's my scientific explanation. I love coming up with made up scientific explanations. You're the guy to talk to you about this. So I guess we're going to have to roll with it. But what kind of views?
scraping the bottom of the tail. That's the thing, right? What are you gonna do? I am I actually really enjoy this. I'm the only person in access that is pushing for longer fuses. And I'm very adamant about this. So I hate short fuses. So I was even talking to so for both prone and prone.
prone and downwinding. use a long, so it's a long fuse, which is actually a short fuse. So the naming conventions get confusing, especially when you talk about them, about people that don't understand Axis. So I use a 70 mil fuse, which is the short fuse, which is one of their longer fuses. So we'll keep It's not their silly short, which is silly shorts are 60, right? Exactly. Yes. And then it's a super silly short? then 640 and then a 670, I think.
which is the ultra short, which most people are on the ultra short and then the short. So, yeah, so I'm on the short advanced plus, is just, yeah, short advanced. And then I use the 365 by 45 skinny rear. And I use that for pretty much everything. So I prone that and I downwind that. And I'm of the opinion that
Luc Moore (33:34.222)
Twitchiness, because obviously the longer you fuse, the more pitch instability you create. I think if you're trying to create instability with your foil, maybe your front foil is too big. So I ride, like I prone a 780 Spitfire and I'm 95 kilos. So not everybody's going to be able to ride that setup. But I actually want stability because the 780 is so rolly.
It's a great foil for surfing and turning. And I want something that's actually when I go into a carve is not going to go like Twitch through the car. I want my cars to be smooth and long and powerful. And I think if you're trying to, it's just the, it's my style of prone surfing is I don't want to do the little check, turn things. And the shorter your fuse is the easier it is to do those little check turn. And it's, you can draw a tighter arc.
But in that arc, you can't push as hard. And I really love that feeling of just being on rail, pushing super hard through your back foot. And the long fuse is allows me to do that. And I stole this from watching people like Zane Westwood, Mr. Bennett's and Oscar, and they all use long fuses. And I just, looked at my writing and I went, there's something missing. I'm not got something that they have. And I think it's that drive through the back foot and a longer fuse.
think gives you that drive through the back foot because if you've got a really short fuse, can't really the place where you push. There isn't something I don't know. don't know. that's what you're saying. I've lost. right. Anyway, that's my explanation. think it's all it's all for your Instagram videos and stuff anyway. So you have to make that stuff look like an art. Yeah. It's all waxed the wet suit. Make sure. Do you know why I opened up with
I'm asking if you have a jingle. Did you hear what generic falling podcast did to me? No. Okay, I don't want to promote generic following podcasts, obviously, on your podcast. Actually, because I've got a platform to defend myself. So they had that room 101 thing where you put something that you don't want to exist anymore. And we have the room. Yes. So on an Instagram comment, I wrote, I put your jingle in the room 101.
Luc Moore (36:01.89)
And obviously I meant it as a joke. And I didn't know that the jingle was written by a nine year old boy. no. Exactly. no. I didn't know that. And so they replied and said, you know, this is written by a child. And then what they did is at the beginning, you should go and listen to it. The beginning of their intro, they went and talked to Charlie, the kid that wrote it and we're like, you know, there's somebody that doesn't like your, your jingle. And what do you think of him? And he's like, he's an asshole.
I didn't know and I'm sorry and it's a wonderful piece of music, So anyway, that's why I asked if you had a jingle because I was going to say how great it was. I was like, wait a second. Why is he being so friendly? I listened to that episode and he's an asshole.
I hope people, always wonder, because Canadians, we have a similar sense of humor and so do the UK. Whereas in general, the US are little, take themselves a little bit more seriously, less teasing of yourself. I reckon it's going to go over the top of the head of a few of the US. They're to be like, Dave's an asshole. We're very self -deprecating. I think that's the right word. And we're always sorry about everything. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah.
Sorry, I fell off the board. Sorry, I didn't buy the right gear. But all right, so you're riding a 70 and you find it makes a difference and that you found helped you quite a bit. I'm on a 60, so I got that. Next year when Britt's back with Axis and she has like everything under the sun that I can try. So I'm definitely gonna do that. And then what did you find helped you? Cause phase number one is you're literally just on a sup and you're trying to get this thing out of the water.
Like, are you doing some flat water pumping stuff that we've seen Gwen and some of the other guys work on and practice on that? I got obsessed with flat water paddle ups and it was a big mistake. It was a massive time waste. so I was in that James Casey coaching group and he used to tell me like, don't stress about paddle up so much. And I just didn't listen to him, which was dumb. And you really should spend your time in the ocean, like all the lake, whatever you are.
Luc Moore (38:22.666)
And I did all you really need to do is learn to paddle straight and, sort of engage the foil. Don't worry about paddlers, but I spent ages trying to get paddlers on like a six, six board, which is so difficult. And then I ended up getting them and then I was still struggling in the bumps. So I sort of got really good at flat water paddlers and I thought that would translate to me being great at paddling up in the bumps. it's just not for the gram.
It doesn't, it's a great party trick and I'm glad I can do it. It was probably the fittest I've been in downwind because I was just like muscle, like muscling up. Downwinding paddler ups like in the ocean are much more about your timing and your speed rather than grunt. So that was a big time waster. Like I just wasted so much time.
So almost building, obviously building speed before the bump shows up and, and then turning left or right to catch it a bit more. Like not, not have you surfed before? you have a history of have, have, have frozen lakes in Canada. So I've skated, but I haven't really surfed. It's just a whole, it's actually a different world. When we see snow, like we literally, I haven't seen snow in like four years.
And when we see snow, we are like giddy. my gosh, look at this snow. And it'll be on the side of the road. It's just a clump. There's snow. We'll get the kids out the car. Look at this snow. a of the drive up in the tractor and minus 20, like 20 knots of wind. You got to mask up just to make sure you don't freeze your face off. But it's fun though. What is it? It's April and I had the aircon on a second ago because it's still too hot. It's still like 32 degrees every day here.
so in regards to the, you, the timing of the paddler is more like when you go to catch a wave, there's, there's this little technique you can do, like where you bob the tail in, and then you sort of use that energy to pop back out. It's, it's a, it's a surfing thing that people do. It's got a name, but it's actually more like that. Like you get a very short window to start accelerating. But if you actually accelerate,
Luc Moore (40:46.648)
too early, you end up sort of in the wrong spot. So there's this magic spot that's very hard to explain via podcast, but it's more of a feeling thing and timing. And it's, yeah, I'm actually trying to work towards making like the best teaching video I can for paddle ups. Because the guys that have done them like Matt Lasser from Lyft did a really good one, but he's in the gorge where the bumps are perfect.
And then it's almost too simple because it's much more complicated than that. So I'm trying to work on something, but it's really hard. But yeah, and this is, this is the most difficult forum to explain it, but it is a timing thing. It's all about, it's actually about finesse and balance. Okay. Well, we can intro like how long you've been doing YouTube. What kind of got you to start doing that? So it's kind of embarrassing. I've actually had about six YouTube channels.
in the past. So as a kid, I loved, I think YouTube was out when I was about, I don't know, nine or something. I don't actually know. But I used to make like stupid videos on my GoPro one and like vlogs. I've always been obsessed with YouTube. I actually love YouTube as a platform. And so this is the first YouTube channel that's actually ever gotten any traction.
So when people are like, you're really good at YouTube. It like, better be up done up about 20 years. So this YouTube channel, I think we're at three years. And that was literally because so I worked as a device rep in the hospitals. And during COVID, they locked us out of the hospitals. So I was, I was at home getting paid. And we I didn't do anything for two years, I was bored out of my brains. And I started foiling. I was like,
I'll just make a YouTube channel about this and sort of share and a lot of it was actually started in winging. was making winging videos which have the highest views of most of my videos is is anything that's winging related because it's the biggest viewership. And yeah, it just like got its own traction. I don't I was like, well, people are watching this and getting something from it and
Luc Moore (43:09.23)
I think at I'm 34 and at this age I've realized making content as long as you don't make it about yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ditch there. Yeah. All we're going to hear is click, click, That's a good point. at some point I realized like, sorry, the clicking is done. It was just my, it was my knuckles. yeah.
This is like, cause when I run my podcast, I have my own vocals running back through as well. So I can make sure I'm not breathing into the mic or anything like this is why, cause I can't hear what I'm saying. that's a good point. Yeah. I realized I was making stuff that I wanted to help people. And as long as I made videos, so I have a rule with all my videos, as long as it serves the audience, I'll make it.
If it's about trying to make me look cool, I don't make it. Whereas I used to make videos that were like, look at this thing I'm doing a back flip of a tree. And I think that was the secret sort of source that I'd stumbled upon is if I do it to serve the community, then it will do well. And if you can marry that up with something you enjoy, what's like, well, then you don't get burnt out and you enjoy it and it makes the hours and hours of work worth it.
Because it is like it's very time I've got RSI at the moment because I've been editing for the last few days. It's very time consuming. Definitely. As you'd understand. Yeah. And so yeah, yeah, it's been this weird. I don't know. I'm like, I always wanted to be I'll admit, I always wanted to be a sponsored like kiteboarder and wakeboarder. And I sort of like I got like ambassador deals, you know, there's 200 bucks off whatever. Yeah. And
It was sort of like, as soon as I let that dream go, it's happened. It's very weird. Like I've got three kids and like, thought my days were done. And now, you know, I'm sponsored in multiple gear categories by multiple brands. It's very strange. I don't know how to deal with it.
Luc Moore (45:28.258)
So I'm just sort of, I'm just waiting for it to end. I'm just, I'm just going to keep doing this and enjoying it. And one day it's going to be all over. That's my hair. It's just like slowly popping out of the top. That's good. Look, it's like Tainting. Have you heard Tintin? That show? yeah. Tintin. Yeah. There you go. You kind of look like him a bit. Tintin. My brother used to get called Tintin because his name was Tim. he loved Tintin. Tintin.
Tim Tim, yeah, Asterix. Yeah, but that's cool. Why did you start the podcast? Why did I start this thing? I think I came to a realization that I was not going to become a profession and I was teaching winging. And I just I had too much energy and passion for the sport and I didn't know where to put it. So I was I
had a bunch of 10 buddies back scattered all over Canada. Our first three episodes were Zoom based and they were like, my brother was laughing his ass off because he was like, it's like AA, because she's like, hey, I'm Rob, I wing foil and hi, I'm Tim, I wing foil. And it started like that. And then it was like, all right, well, who else wants to talk to us? And then we realized that our, our listens were going up.
And we were getting, so that's kind of why we started it. And now we have a team of four of us now are three guys plus myself and super passionate people. Like we just got sponsored by North this year, which is exciting. So a little shout out to those guys. Legends. Good on you, Good job. Yeah. They picked this up, which is amazing. We still have other, categories available, but, so for that, it was great. And I never thought I would. Let's shout out the categories.
Well, you got three levels 123. Yeah. And then so yeah, they're available for those of you out there. Come on, come on companies for drive with our money. Come on, I met those guys at AWS I lost September. And guys, yeah, awesome. I'm going to see everybody I'm to be back in AWS I this September coming up. Yeah, be nice to see everybody. But that's, that's why we started it. And then we realized it was a great medium to help companies put out some
Luc Moore (47:54.798)
products to the community. Cause there's some, for some things video is king and for some thing, audio is king. And like, if you have your own, so what we're doing now is product release videos where you come on and you just, talk about exactly why and how and where it was developed and testing and all that nature of things, which you want to walk here. am pitching my own show, but like for that kind of stuff is cool.
But there's other things where I'd much rather watch a video. So learning kind of downwind, like I'd much rather turn on your videos because that's more specific to what it is that we're doing. So anyways, that's why I never thought we'd be pro podcasters either. I thought it was a complete joke, but here we go. The, the, me, the podcast mediums, like the most, it's one of the sec to me, it's the second best way to develop a, like a really special relationship with people because you're with them on their morning commute every day.
And there's like a degree of regularity. Whereas YouTube, obviously, I still, as you say, YouTube is probably the best way to convey like teaching people things in general. But it's a more flippant, you know, people, like people with busy lives in their 50s aren't going to regularly be jumping on YouTube, but they are regularly in their car looking for something to consume. And if they're foil brained, like so many people are, they are like,
always after podcasts, episodes about foiling. there's only what this is, you know, and, and they be they become friends with you. They don't realize it, but they're friends with you. Because they're just like, I was chatting to Luke today. You the car, you know, and that's like, it's true, though, that's, it's pretty special. And foilers are just desperate for more content. And it's sort of hard to keep up. She's just like, you know,
It's a lot of work and you've got your time that you're using now, whatever it will be an hour and a half. And then there's the prep time, then there's the editing. So good on you. really, I always try and like create, we need creators cause it's so good for the community. Everybody loves it. So, that's true. No, I appreciate it. Same, same with like, cause I know how long it takes to shoot and film a good video. Like it's easy and thinking through.
Luc Moore (50:17.582)
how to convey a message. Cause I was watching a few of yours there before, like when you, it looks like you're just in the center of the ocean and like just to walk through what it is that you're doing, it's difficult, definitely. So what is your YouTube channel called for those that are just driving to work right now? That's a great question. It's Dave West Foyles. you look, luckily Google's figured out who I am.
And if you just look, put in Dave West, it's going to be a basketball player or me, which is pretty cool. so yeah, it's just Dave West foils and yeah, like a lot of the more recent stuff is access demos, foil drive stuff and downwinding and prone. There's not a lot of new winging stuff. There's some older stuff. So if, if this is mainly a winging audience, unless you're looking to dabble across.
You know, there's not a lot of stuff in there, I think they probably stopped listening 20 minutes ago, so it doesn't matter. Yeah, I can't blame them. But the thing is though, and I'm going to, I'm going to sell the value is the best wing foilers actually just know how to use their foil and prone downwind or whatever, whichever discipline, any of those disciplines, it's all about how to use your foil, how to have your foil, you know,
how to have your feet right, how to have your balance right. And all that stuff applies across every single genre of the sport. So, you know, the best wing fallers are usually great prone foilers. Look at Cash Bozola. What a freak. He's so good at winging, but he prone, he rips and that's because, you know, it's the chicken and the egg type scenario. So if you learn to surf a wave on a wing, you'll probably be able to surf on a prone. So when it's not windy, jump across. It's a different experience.
So, yeah. So we're teaching people to like try different sports now before the Kiders weren't allowed to talk to the windsurfers and the French weren't allowed to talk to the English, but we're getting better. You know, we're getting better. It's just, it's a big foil orgy. That's what we're all. You can use that as a promo clip.
Luc Moore (52:40.376)
All right, Frank is going to cut this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you don't have to edit it. Well, you know what, my friends, so I have a buddy. was editing all of them and then a buddy who is from Ottawa and now he moved to, he's traveling currently written in Indonesia area. So he's over there and he's starting to take care of all the editing. He's put out two feature films.
kind of documentary style feature films. One was about homelessness in Ottawa in the bitter cold. So I helped him film that way back in the day. And then he did another video right now, but the community where he was staying on the island that he was staying and beautiful, beautiful work. So he was looking to work on passion projects. So he was like, can I edit? And we kind of worked it out. And so he's bringing up our quality a little bit.
figuring out what he likes to see and what he's learning. And so it's been a, it's been a fun little journey. That's awesome. Yeah. Tell him to make all your own stuff. Yeah. Okay. We'll make one for this episode. That's right. Just for this episode, just take the generic falling podcast one and use it for this, which is, no, it's a great jingle. They have an excellent jingle. I forgot what the question was. yeah. I do everything, which is, which is so dumb.
Like I wish I had like a partner in crime. I 100 % wish I did. But I don't. you know, I've even considered like, could I just send it to Fiverr? So I have a podcast episode with Paul Martin from Four -Wheel Drive. It's like a two hour episode and I haven't edited it. And was like three months ago because I'm just, I just edited it
Yeah. I have gear sponsors, but I don't have any monetary sponsors. And so sometimes I'm just like, you've got to pick your battles. Like I've got the YouTube channel and had the podcast and people really, I've had a lot of positive feedback from the podcast and people wanted me to do more. But I'm also like the end of the day, I do all of this for free and I, I have another life that I sort of have to maintain as well. And
Luc Moore (54:57.676)
you know, a wife and three kids and older your little ones. Six, four and two. awesome. So, you know, if I go into a podcast over dinner, that's, you know, my wife cops that because now she's gonna put the kids to bed on her own. So it's not just it's like, every when you add everything out. The podcast has actually been the most difficult one, because it's like evenings, and it's time away from my family.
And it's not, it's not a 20 minute or a 10 minute video. It's like an hour and a half long conversation. Then you got to edit that stuff out. And I can put you in contact with Stefan. Like we can do that afterwards there when we get off the air. And if there's anything that you need from him, just talk and see if, if, if it's worthwhile and that kind of thing. But it's definitely, think this is one thing as well, that a lot of community people don't necessarily understand that a lot of this we're doing a lot of the time it is for free.
And the industry is very, very, very tight on funding. it all much depends on a lot of factors. Now the guys at North, to be honest, were phenomenal because they loved what we were doing. They also were big supporters of community. So I have to give a shout out to one of the first companies that looked at more than just numbers, which is phenomenal.
It does take some time and it does take, take a lot of things. Like I think it's a great space, but, I think we're putting in, I don't know, like maybe 10 hours and this is on top of work. Like if you're putting in an episode a week, it's at least 10 some hours. Yeah. people don't quite, there's like, there's a bit of stupidity on my end. So when I get some extra money, I don't have to buy foils now, but what I end up doing is buying gear.
that contributes to the channel. I buy a new camera or I, and that's the thing, I sold some gear, I'll flash it because it's entertaining, but I'm buying a drone with this to film, foiling with, to make tutorials. It's so dumb. like, I finally made, I sold a couple of things and made some money. I'm reinvesting anything I get, I don't, that's that.
Luc Moore (57:22.254)
I've made $0 like genuinely I have made $0 in three years from foiling. So but I've had epic experiences. I've met so many great people. It's actually been the best chapter of my life. Like bar none. And I'm, I've actually made a conscious decision to not involve money in foiling so that it remains sort of it doesn't get convoluted because like my
my main job is I'm a professional musician. So I've already taken a hobby before and made it a job and you do lose a bit of the passion. Like you definitely do. And I think while there's no money involved, I can always say no. So if somebody gives me a product and you know, there's less pressure and you can be more honest because as soon as
And I'm not saying this about you guys. Obviously it's a different yours. The way you're sponsored is totally different than the way I would be sponsored. Yes. we to clean that up in that sense, like a product release video or a product. So it's a clear cut. Like I'm not reviewing, I'm not testing. They're presenting something and I'm asking questions as to why would I want this? So that's a bit easier. And then, and then that sponsorship is based on that. It's not, it's not another form.
which is more so that I'm being paid either to do reviews or paid to do a positive quality test or paid to do those kinds of things. Cause yeah, like there, there was a version where I could have gone down the track with the YouTube channel where products, different companies gave me products and I would review the product. But I always thought that how could I actually be honest because you know, there's that positive reinforcement. They've given you something. They have an expectation.
It's a small industry. It's not like tech where if you, is you an iPhone and shit on it, well, Samsung's right there and then there's Nokia or whatever. It's like, you know, you upset one company. That's it. You're probably done with that company for a while. And so I went down. I just went, well, I'm writing access and the opportunity came up to me on the team writer. And I just, I just went, okay, I just want good, reliable gear. And I was on Amos boards. I hit up Amos. said, Hey,
Luc Moore (59:42.56)
you came to make me an ambassador. He's like, yep. And eventually became a team rider with them. And the four drive popped up and I just went, well, what I can do is I can focus on tutorials and less of the gear review. Because I don't really like doing gear reviews. I much prefer to do tutorials. Sorry, other way around. I like doing gear reviews. But I know like I don't
hold on, I'm getting confused. I don't prefer to do tutorials, but I know that's what the community needs. Yes. Like the community actually wants tutorials more than they want gear reviews. And the problem with gear reviews is their niche. So, you know, if it's an axis wing, well, only axis riders really care. So it's a bit of a challenge because, you know, I'd rather do things that serve the entire foiling community. But at the same time, also, if I get given gear, there's sort of a
there's an unspoken expectation that you present something at least about it. And so you're always trying to manage that and but still be really honest. Because I'm always honest. That's the thing. Like, if I don't like a foil, I don't talk about it. It's because I can go and winch to Adrian directly. If I don't like a foil, I actually don't need to winch to the community. So if you don't hear me talking about something, that's usually a sign that I don't particularly like it. But if you do hear me talking about something, it's because I like it.
I think that's the unspoken rule. Yeah, that's kind of what it is like. And, and it's all because there's a lot of companies, it just depends on what kind of a writer you are and the relationship you have with that company. And then that stuff is the best for you. Because everything now has to almost fairly even keel, I could say, and to some people, can't feel the difference. So it just depends on if you met one guy and you liked him.
or if you happen to have six buddies, like what we talked about another episode with Gwen and Damien, cause we got a new show coming out with them soon as we talked about. Yeah. So we're going to do as an educational based series where we build off of their YouTube channel and go through FAQs and we'll have some live coaching as well. So if you submit your videos, you will be able to have live coaching with us. Like you can come on as a guest kind of thing. But what we found there is it's very niche.
Luc Moore (01:02:06.434)
Yeah, no thanks. It's niche. like if, if in our area, if everybody's writing Armstrong or Axis or whatever it is, it's better for you to stay within that niche because you'll be able to buy and sell easier, learn easier, like all these different things, right? Like if you're the only one writing a foil and nobody else does, like it's going to be a little bit harder to sell it within your little tiny community. but we're, pretty much pro everybody. think everybody has the same goal of bringing in more joy and happiness and
So I think, when you're a team rider, like, you say, there is the differences between foil brands now are not huge. Like everybody's got great foils. Everybody's, everybody's now coming out with great downwind foils, cause that's sort of my main concern. and it starts to be about what's the culture. What's the team rider culture. Cause like Amos shapes, we just did a team trip. It was so fun. That was to release Josh's cruiser model.
And that was just like the best time. so they're, they're the sort of things you start to think about. You're like, okay, if the foil was a great sweep, if the company's great, sweet. If the team trips are great, even better, you know, it's like, that, that there's sort of the evaluation starts to change as you navigate this sort of area. And so you can, if you're all
if you just wanted to be on the best foils, but it was a bad company to work for, then you might not do it. your team writers are, yeah, they're always an interesting representation because there's other things that are going on in the background that don't get talked about. And that, you know, sort of stay in the in the shadows. And there's some shit that went down at AWS I last year with some companies, I'm going to mention, I'm not going to mention it.
But it was like I went to bed earlier, whatever. But I heard there was a couple of things that went down. And you know what? Like it was it was anyways, it was too much for me. But it kind of fit the image and of what I saw during the day. And that turned me off. And I was like, that's one more nail on the coffin for this particular company happen. And I said, I'm not really into that stuff. Like, this is not why I came here. Yeah.
Luc Moore (01:04:32.086)
So, and there's other companies who go out of their way to be friendly and they help you with everything. And like one of the reasons I do like KT and Armstrong and them because just how they are and how friendly they are when they meet you and stuff. And that's one thing. And there's so many other ones I can small, but so culture as a huge part of it.
And obviously everybody is seeing and everybody's writing everything like that's take that out of the bag. If you have a company, most likely every day they're buying different foils. They're buying the whole lineup from everybody. They're testing and they're all growing together. It's like one big pot of helping each other. But, yeah, but yeah, no, that's, it's interesting. that's like, if foil drive made a shit product, which they didn't, they made a great product, but if they had made a shit product, I'd probably still be stoked on it. Cause I love.
Paul and Ben. it's like, you'll notice I never really, if anybody watches my reviews, I never really talk about my bias. It's because everybody, you know, I have a medical background like you and everybody has so much bias. We just don't realize it. So like, if you say, I'm going to try and give an eye on bias review, you're biased by trying to be unbiased placebo.
Exactly. It's like, of course I'm biased. Like I'm friends with Amos. I'm friends with Adrian. I'm friends with Paul and Ben. It's like, I don't want to upset those guys. Of course. Like every person you get a review from, even if they paid for it, they have a bias because they might like, they might be annoyed that they had to pay for it and they might be making a review to try and get sponsored. You don't know. So I always just go like, everyone's full of shit.
Just have a good time. that's it. Have a good time. Whatever it is you're writing is fine. Like, obviously biases make sense. Cause if a company guy pisses you off, you don't want to write his stuff. Like it's not that complicated. Yeah. I think it's just human nature. It's human nature. So that being said, what kind of a paddle do you buy and why do you like it? I've recently changed. You love paddles. I've heard you love paddles. Canadians love paddles.
Luc Moore (01:06:52.61)
the evil got a kid like a maple. What's it called? I've got some access ones which haven't come out yet, which look like the they look a little bit like we call it the potato blade. Sorry, Adrian, if you watch this. Because it's sort of that q blade stingray shape. It's a slightly altered version. But the one I have been on regularly is the fanatic. It's just a standard paddle. So
But one of the things that happened in downwind is they started using really fat paddles like Ohno Ava's. So they're about almost, you know, an extra third bigger than a normal paddle, like a standard paddle. And, and then like Kane DeWild, he's been using like this huge shovel looking thing. And I've gone back to just a normal paddle, like a 85 square inch, very standard sub paddle, because in my, I realized like,
Why would foilers think we're reinventing the wheel? Paddling, like, sub paddles have been around for 20, 30 years. There's no new technology that we're gonna discover with our little baby sport of downwinding. I've gone back to the traditional paddle and it's because of the cadence. The most important thing is to get lots of quick strokes in and be able to get the paddle out quickly if you're unbalanced.
to get another stroke, maybe slide to the right or to the left or whatever. Whereas with those big paddles, I've done a full 360 on this too, I have to admit. I used to be like, yeah, big paddles. But as I've gotten better, I realized, no, you need to be nimble. You're next video that you're gonna put out is gonna be all of a sudden. Yeah, pretty much. With a jingle. right, okay. I need a jingle. I was gonna put on the title, I was wrong, because then it'll like lure people in, click baiting. I was wrong.
But yeah, I think a smaller paddle is like 8582 square inch paddle is actually so much better and to learn on because I remember when James Casey I used to because I pushed big paddles because I thought I was like, yeah, this is the way and James Casey, he's very mature. He was just quiet about it. didn't say anything. And I realized he was being nice to me. Because he knew better. He was like, no.
Luc Moore (01:09:17.198)
Cause code brought out their paddle and it was like a classic paddle. I'm, I was like, that was the right move because yeah, the big paddles, I went back to the big paddle three weeks ago and I had the worst four downwind runs I've had in two years. So, and that's like the paddle ups. took me 15 minutes to paddle up. Cause you'd put the paddle in and you'd only be able to get one stroke in the case that you'd normally get three. And then you'd fall off balance and you wouldn't be able to get the paddle out quick enough to catch yourself.
So it was a big deal for me. So I'm pretty passionate about the small paddle. All right. That's fine, man. Who'd thought? It's fine. Small is better. So we covered most of everything. Board, foil, paddle. Now, you bring in a watch. What kind of safety equipment? We might as well go on full on fricking. Yeah. So what kind of watch you ride in? This is the.
The Garmin Phoenix six, it doesn't have Celia. It would be nice if it did. So I use this just to track my times and then always take a phone. Absolutely always take a phone for so many reasons. Like I had a run last week where my mass bolt fell out. I forgot to tighten my bolts up. sure. And I went to pump and it was just went because it was the back of the tail was bouncing out of the
the fuse was like, and it sounded so loud to me. And yeah, flip my fall over and it was half hanging out. And I'm lucky I didn't snap off the second bolt and lose my setup completely. And I had a phone but my buddy didn't have a phone. And it was only at like 16 16 ish K run, which for us is pretty standard now. So we were like, yeah, we'll be sweet 40 minutes. I'll see you there. And I couldn't communicate to him that I'd come in early.
So not only do you need a phone, your buddies need a phone and that's the best safety you can have. I don't use an EPIRB or anything like that. We sort of just accept a certain amount of risk. But if we were doing anything, you know, really significant or a channel crossing where anywhere where water is not going to be pushing into shore, then I'd start considering things like an EPIRB. But so like we have to use them. I'm doing EPIRB. Yeah.
Luc Moore (01:11:45.142)
electronic position. It's just a beacon. It's a beacon. for skiing and stuff. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's like a little thing and you pop the top off and when you pull that they send everybody. So Arnold shows up. Yeah. Exactly. Hell. Yeah. Okay. Did you see my story about when they sent the chopper after us? No, because this is sort of a cautionary tale. So we a buddy of mine we were down the south coast of Australia.
And we did a late run. It was about five o 'clock. So the sun was sort of going down. Good wind. Took me a little while to get up. He took him a little while too, but I was sort of two minutes behind him. And we did our run. We went back to the Caribbean park, we're chilling out and I see the helicopter go over with a spotlight. And I like, I said to my friend, was like, do you think they're looking for us? And he's like, nah, nah, definitely not. So the next day we went and surfed the same spot that we left from.
And some lady comes up to us. She's like, what are you guys doing? Blah, blah. And then she's like, yeah, some paddleboarders went missing last night. And we were like, really? She's like, yeah, they went missing at about six o 'clock at night. We're like, and she said, yeah, the police is down here. Like channel seven's down here and they're trying to find everybody. And they'd been running the chopper all night, pretty much looking for us. had two big search boats out for us. And,
Yeah. So they, somebody reported us missing and not the news got involved. was on the national news and everybody thought we were dead. We ended up just calling the police like, Hey, it was us. And, know, they came down and got a description, but it's, it's happening more frequently than we'd like. Like it's happening in Melbourne. It's happening in Sydney because people just, they don't expect to see people two kilometers out the sea. And it's just like, they freak out.
Yeah, that's a thing. It's massive waste of resources. But yeah, there's not much we can do about it. Like at the end of the day, it's not our fault. Why we we had life jackets on. We had our phones, we did all the safety stuff. But it's gonna wear sort of something I'm thinking about, like, how can we educate the community about the sport that we are and how we exist, so that then if somebody sees us, they want to just assume, well, that person's drowning.
Luc Moore (01:14:10.638)
Like it's weird that they think we're drowning when we're moving at 30 Ks an hour. That's what I find very strange. And you're standing up. Yeah. But it's when we're paddling out, we look like we look like coops when everybody looks like a coop when they paddle up. that's the, it's to know that is happening. Yeah. Well, and the wilder it is, cause it was pretty windy that day. People just assume like you don't know what you're doing and you're some
tourist that's, you know, found his way out in the ocean. So no, man, I got a YouTube channel and it's really successful. right. It's the grand drill. Ultra small wetsuit. You're good to go. That'd be fine. So that that's the safety stuff. Tell somebody and if you see a chopper after you finished your run, just check in with the police. Because there's some helicopter pilot out there having the time of their lives.
just flying around. yeah. They're all good points though. And there's things that you only learn by experiencing them, right? Like you wouldn't know otherwise. You would never have probably thought that would have happened, but there are people to know. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. Well, yeah, that's, I think that is part of the safety thing is you want other people to be safe. I don't want people out on a boat in 25 knots looking for me. So we, we, we, we've got to figure out a system where we can sort of notify.
police or coast guard, but they're not in a way that like, I don't know, we've got to figure it out. Cause it's only growing. There's only more and more of us. So definitely. Well, shit man, is there anything else you want to cover? We think we talked about everything under the sun other than, other than the jingle that we're going to come up with, yeah, beautiful. I think if you want to compete with a generic falling podcast.
There we go. Better than no coming from a professional professional musician and professional YouTuber. Who would have thought that not pro because don't make any money. Semi pro. We'll go amateur pro. I don't know. Amateur. All right, brother. Nobody got anything out of this.
Luc Moore (01:16:41.294)
No, it's just a big waste of time. But hey, thanks for joining me on a midday out there. yeah, anyways, thanks, man. It was nice to meet you finally and nice to chat. I'll have to you back on. I'll send you I'll send you my bank details for that 500. You said you'd pay me for this. Yes, definitely. That's how we do it. We pay to become popular. Not pesos. No pesos. I'll give you a Canadian that you get that 30 % top up.
All right. That's right. All right, everybody. Thanks for joining us on this one. And if you want to follow and you want to get to know Dave a little bit more, what's the easiest way for them to reach out or point fingers? Find me on OnlyFans at DaveWearSpoils. No. What am I on? Instagram, DaveWearSpoils. The thick gay category. Is that what you're looking at? Cut this part out. I'm straight. I'm just so I'm straight.
No, this is the goal. have three kids on straight. Nothing wrong with being gay and thick. No, got to cut that out. Yeah. No, Dave West foils and Dave was foils on YouTube. So I can subscribe. Perfect. Perfect. It's from your generation. So you're a younger fellow. How old are you? 41. Are you 41?
You're a young one from 41. Yeah, thanks man. Well done. I'm trying to, I'm like, it's the first time in a lot of sun. So I got to, you know, it's the first time in my life I've thought about skincare because it's like, it's 25 and sunny here every single day. It took me about a month to get used to it. I called back home or whatever, talked to family is like, could we not have a day of cloud or a day of rain or a day of something? It's just, they're used to it here, but now it's like a warm blanket every time you walk outside.
Yeah, well, that's like for the next for the next six months. That's what we have. It's pretty much no wind and it's 25 degrees every single day. Almost without fail. So it's like a different world, but no wind. All right, let's finish off with your best surfer impersonation. that surfer commercial of the guy that got pitted. That's the best. I want to do Mark Okalupu.
Luc Moore (01:19:06.35)
But I don't have the jaw for it. As in pro surfer? No, no, like I just want like a standard. This was a, you know, like the standard like that guy. Yeah. Cause you know, you're from the same part of the world. I saw the lit bro and I like came up and then I saw, and then saw. There we go. All in the Winglife podcast. All right folks, we'll catch you next time.
Now then.