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The Disability And…Podcast gets right to the heart of some of the most pressing issues in arts, culture and beyond with a series of bold, provocative and insightful interviews with disabled artists, key industry figures and the odd legend. The Disability and…Podcast is currently monthly.
Intro 00:04
Welcome to the Disability And... podcast, bringing together thoughtful discussion and debate. This month, founding editor of Disability Arts Online, Colin Hambrook chats with Baluji and Linda Shrivastav, about the Inner Vision Orchestra, Jazz Orient, and Dot Aware: a wearable braille device to assist visually impaired musicians in the working environment.
Colin Hambrook 00:37
Welcome to the Disability And podcast. I'm Colin Hambrook, the founder of Disability Arts Online, and I'm absolutely delighted this month to have with us the award winning musician Baluji Srivastavav OBE and his wife, Linda, who is the co-founder of the Baluji Music Foundation, and who is also producer of the innovation orchestra. Hi, hi, Bello. How are you today?
Baluji Shrivastav 01:10
I'm fine. Thank you, Colin, for introducing me. And yes, it's very nice to have you. After a long time!
Colin Hambrook 01:21
Yes, yes, indeed. So, Baluji. Can you tell us a bit about the Baluji Music Foundation's work, supporting blind and partially sighted musicians? I know that earlier this year, you were involved in producing the Blind to the Facts survey. Can you tell us a bit about the survey, and some of the findings?
Baluji Shrivastav 01:45
Yeah, we had the first survey in '95. The second survey, we have just started, and it's coming over, but the actual survey report will be out online end of this year. But we have got little bit of survey [responses] at the moment, which is maybe I'll ask Linda to make clear, because I don't have documentation at hand.
Linda Shrivastav 02:20
Okay, so we've had over 100 respondents to the survey, and 65% of those respondents were visually impaired people. Dr. Claire Castle is still analysing the data. But so far, the main points that have come through from the blind and visually-impaired musicians, is that the challenges they face are mainly to do with transportation, and the difficulty of getting support from Access to Work for support workers and guides, and also the difficulty of networking and getting the information they need to be able to apply for work. So that's the analysis so far, but it will be in greater detail when we publish the report.
Baluji Shrivastav 03:23
So can I say these difficulties have been before, and Access to Work is difficult to get hold of because we can talk to them, but filling up the forms is too cumbersome, and whether they will accept or not, we don't know.
Baluji Shrivastav 03:44
So it's very, very difficult for blind and partially sighted to fill up those forms to begin with, and then waiting for acceptance. And everybody is not allowed to fill up the form, because if you're if you're in work, that's fine, [but] if you're not in work, you're not allowed to fill up the form.
Colin Hambrook 04:11
I can see that the barriers ar endless, especially in this day and age where everything is moving more and more to online. And it's it it's becoming much harder to speak to an officer at Access to Work, or at any other government agency, to speak to anyone in in-person. What kind of positive changes do you think, Baluji, need to happen to enable blind and partially sighted musicians to thrive?
Baluji Shrivastav 04:46
Now first of all, Access to Work has has to be easier. Also, the transport, as Linda has mentioned, is very difficult. Well, it is difficult in London! [laughs]. And there is quite a bit of difficulty if music teachers or someone lives outside in the countryside, as transports are not [readily] available there. And also, quite a few like sound beacons used to be there. But now, there are no sound beacons in many, many places.
Baluji Shrivastav 05:24
So, these are the difficulties and it could be made easier for blind people. Also, the main problem is also blind people are not countable: we can't really know how many blind people there are anywhere. And for example, in LinkedIn, there is no Blind Association. So, there is no no way to approach them. I mean, whenever we approach this question, these old-age persons, they say 'we are', but 'we are' is not enough: where we are; how we are; how can we get access is also important. So, these are the difficulties still.
Colin Hambrook 06:16
And what more do you think can be done to to overcome these barriers? How do you think blind and partially-sighted musicians can be supported better to to network and to to, to join forces as it were?
Baluji Shrivastav 06:37
The networking is very, very difficult - unless there is a sighted person who is aware of needs of blind person. And if we are in the meetings, for example, a sighted person knows where and who is sitting. So we can get in touch with that, that kind of person.
Baluji Shrivastav 06:58
But if there is no sighted person who is aware - not only helpful - and they are all very helpful, and I'm very glad to say that whatever volunteers we got, they are very, very good.
Baluji Shrivastav 07:14
But if they are not aware of the needs of blind person and they should meet, they should talk to the blind person: 'do you want to see this person?' A blind person will say yes, or no. And then that will be networking can be easier that way.
Baluji Shrivastav 07:32
When I was working, I have a foundation, I just went alone and bump into people and found out how, who I want to talk to. And then I found people and I spoke to them. But that's more difficult for a blind person. And especially for people who are not confident and who are very shy. It's very difficult for them. So we need more training for that.
Colin Hambrook 08:04
With the Inner Vision Orchestra, are there are there training initiatives happening to to help establish those networks, and to support blind musicians to perform and promote themselves?
Baluji Shrivastav 08:19
We also train how to take the blind person how to handle a blind person, and so on so forth. We are trying our best to do that. Yes.
Colin Hambrook 08:31
And you've you've invented a process called Dot Aware, haven't you, to support blind musicians to to read music? Can you tell us a bit about that project?
Baluji Shrivastav 08:49
Dot Aware, it was my idea, but Linda has given the name Dot Aware, which is a very good name. And we have done the prototype. But it needs more funding to develop further, and it's vibration based. So, if vibration comes like Braille dots: so people who are aware or who know Braille they can feel either on the neck or on on the leg or wherever they want to feel they can put that device and that device should be connected via Bluetooth or radio signal whichever is easier. And that way, the blind person can feel the music. Music will be in MIDI form, which will be easily translated into musical form from there.
Baluji Shrivastav 09:55
And that way they can feel [the music]: that's the whole idea. Another idea is that the microphone is on the computer and as conductor speaks, it tells [the musician] which line, which column we have to go. And computer will take us there directly. And then bind person doesn't have to do much. There's a six top rail system. So it's only six notes needed for one line of music. But we could have two or three lines of music, and there are chord systems already in Braille music. So it shouldn't be difficult.
Colin Hambrook 10:37
It sounds intriguing, Baluji. And how far away do you think the prototype is? Are you looking for funding currently to process this this, this software?
Baluji Shrivastav 10:54
Yes, prototype, we have got a little bit because it's, it's not Bluetooth based at the moment: it is just one little device given to us. And we have to press the dot ourselves, or somebody else presses and we have to feel those dots. Or we can feel those dots. But it's, it's very difficult because blind people have to get used to have that sort of process, like we have to learn braille.
Baluji Shrivastav 11:24
I learned braille when I was six. And it's a very slow process. But once it is, once they have learned it, it will be much easier. But it has to be Bluetooth and and the microphone process still yet to be done. And it's automatic. The programming has to be done. So for that we will need funding.
Colin Hambrook 11:52
And will this implement composition, as well? Will it be something that you can use us to compose?
Baluji Shrivastav 12:04
Yes, we can compose as well as make our own music. And that will be also on on MIDI form. So basically when we compose, we can put it on keyboard or whichever we do on MIDI form.
Baluji Shrivastav 12:18
Once it is on MIDI form, it could be accessible to anyone.
Colin Hambrook 12:22
That's sounds amazing. I wish you all the best in in looking for funding to get this off the ground. It sounds like something that could revolutionise, not just in the UK but worldwide.
Baluji Shrivastav 12:41
Yeah, the other advantage of this software, if we use it as Braille, but not only Braille music, then it will be useful for Deaf people as well as blind. When they cook, they can find out what sort of ingredients and how, how you can use them. So blind and deaf, it'll be very, very useful for them.
Colin Hambrook 13:08
Because it's dependent on sensation, on touch.
Colin Hambrook 13:15
And that sounds a great innovation. Moving on, Baluji. I know that there, there are a wealth of blind musicians working in different genres who are, for instance, engaged with the Inner Vision Orchestra. I wondered if you would tell us a bit about some of the people that you're working with and why it's important to support blind musicians to get to work, really?
Baluji Shrivastav 13:15
Exactly.
Baluji Shrivastav 13:58
Quite a few reasons. One is there are blind musicians, not only from UK, but from different parts of the world. Luckily, they're all based in London. And we found them by word of mouth. And we found also going to the organisations and they are from Japan, they're from Nigeria, they're from India and from Iran. And they are from different different parts of the world. So anybody who is a musician is most welcome. It doesn't have to be musician actually - anyone interested in music - because we can make musicians from them. Because, for me, music is not only in Western form, which is composed and played. Music is an improvisation; music is in the breath, music is in the water, fire, earth, space and everywhere. So, music can be done by anything and anywhere so, we can make musicians. So, yeah, for that reason, because our music is very inclusive of all kinds of ways [of working].
Baluji Shrivastav 15:29
And we have done the big tour of 17 concerts: some of them have been done, some of them will be done. We have been to Kala Sangham, Bradford, and we have been to South Shields and we have performed in London: quite a few concerts in Holy Sepulchre church and also in Waterloo, [where] we are performing in festivals. So we have done quite a lot of work and this has all happened because of the funding available by Arts Council and the Vision Foundation. So we are very thankful for those organisations. And so yes, funding is constantly needed, because we support blind musicians. And that's how it is; and anything Linda wants to add, probably.
Linda Shrivastav 16:39
Well we have some outstanding musicians like Takeshi Kikuchi from Japan, a viola player, we've made actually a film about him. It's a beautiful film, which you can access through the Baluji Music Foundation website. We have Victoria Oruwari, who is a wonderful opera singer as well: she can sing any style, including Indian music, African music, Jazz, Blues. I mean, these are musicians who really should be in the mainstream, because they have so much to offer. And of course, we have many more, we've got Kevin Satizabal, from Colombia, a fabulous pianist. Thuy from Vietnam, who's a multi instrumentalist. The list goes on. You can find them all on our website.
Baluji Shrivastav 17:37
if there are some musicians who are not so well trained, but they can be, they can be trained even further if needed. Because they will. Very good to listen mind directions, and I'm very glad that they don't mind.
Linda Shrivastav 17:54
And Blu has taught the western classical musicians how to improvise, which opens up a lot more possibilities for them. So they can play with other kinds of music such as jazz, for example.
Baluji Shrivastav 18:01
We have got a group called Jazz Orient, which has nothing to do with inner vision. But Linda is the owner of Jazz Orient. And I think I keep saying, She's the Jazz and I'm the Orient.
Linda Shrivastav 18:25
And we are including members of Inner Vision at our gigs at Bloomsbury and part of the London Jazz Festival.
Baluji Shrivastav 18:34
That's how we keep going. And yeah, that's, that's why we need more money.
Colin Hambrook 18:42
And you recently played at the International Blind Sports Federation's World Games at the Symphony Hall in Birmingham. How did that concert go?
Baluji Shrivastav 18:58
That concert went very well; with 2000 people and probably more listeners on television. It went very well. As far as the musicians are concerned, they've done their best.
Colin Hambrook 19:14
I think it's fantastic the way that Inner Vision Orchestra blends music and songs from so many different corners of the world, and crosses some so many boundaries. I hadn't the level of improvisation that happens through so many different traditions. It's a truly innovatory and and wonderful, wonderful, joyful thing to experience.
Baluji Shrivastav 19:52
That's very kind of you. Yes, and it'll be on it will be on Radio Four's In Touch. Certainly on Radio Four on BBC sounds.
Colin Hambrook 20:07
Are there other highlights of the of the recent tour or venues and audiences that you're especially looking forward to playing to in the dates coming up?
Baluji Shrivastav 20:20
Yeah, we are always looking for lovely, nice audiences. And we are going to perform at Liberty Arts Festival. Next Sunday, is it, Linda? Third of September. And also we're going to perform in JamArt, which is in 14th or 15th September and 15th at Newcastle, sorry, 15th in Newcastle. And then on the 20th of October I'm going to perform my classical music, Indian classical music, at the Nehru Centre, which is in South Audley Street in London.
Colin Hambrook 21:08
I really hope to get to one of the concerts coming up. Have you composed anything yourself, for for this tour?
Baluji Shrivastav 21:19
The Inner Vision theme I've composed, which is in two parts, and also for this Birmingham International Sports Festival. Linda has composed a piece called Anthem. Anthem was composed by Linda, and it was appreciated. And everybody sang. It was very, very nice. And I'm also composing for the next part of the tour a piece for Equinox, which will be performed in Leeds.
Colin Hambrook 21:57
When that? When's that taking place?
Baluji Shrivastav 22:00
23rd of December, just before Christmas.
Colin Hambrook 22:04
A wonderful way to end the year.
Baluji Shrivastav 22:08
Yeah, and I'm looking forward to see you. And if you let me know how many people we have coming together, then we will leave some free tickets for you!
Colin Hambrook 22:19
That's, very kind of you. I look forward to very much, Baluji. And do you have plans for next year at all, then, that are on the horizon for either for Inner Visions or for Jazz Orient?
Baluji Shrivastav 22:41
Yes, we are going to London Jazz Festival. And as I said already, I'm composing music for Equinox, and we have other concerts in January, February something... and we are hoping to be in moment. So there are some some things coming up. Also, if I'm commissioned for any more music, I'm happy to compose.
Baluji Shrivastav 23:15
We have got also composers in our own group: Ziad, who composes Arabic style music or some English songs put into the Arabic style music, he composes tha,t and also Takashi is also starting composing; Thuy, he is a composer. So we've got composers as well: so, it's not only me, we have got full of composers, lots of music composers.
Colin Hambrook 23:46
How does that work? How do musicians within the orchestra come together to share their work with with the rest of the musicians?
Baluji Shrivastav 23:58
But at the moment, we send recordings on WhatsApp. We create a group and that's how we can work out our audio sound and we meet together and then we rehearse together. I will also compose an Urdu opera, which is the very first opera in Urdu language. And I'm looking for the funding to go further. We have performed bits of it in a Festival Hall here in London, Queen Elizabeth Hall, and also were performed in India, in Mumbai Opera House and in Delhi British Theatre Group. So we have performed there, and we need more funding to develop this Opera further, because at the moment, we are basically 12-13 people, but we need more choir and more musicians.
Linda Shrivastav 25:17
We're hoping to do this with the Bradford Opera Festival: we are working in partnership with them. And hopefully next year, this project is going to have another chance to be heard by everybody.
Baluji Shrivastav 25:37
Can I also say that when we performed in Birmingham, we were very thankful for B Music to be working with us and Live Music Now. And also, can I also say, that we have developed a blind spot - which I keep saying - by busking.
Baluji Shrivastav 26:01
Now, on that, I will suggest also: busking should not be allowed only in Southbank, everywhere, but it should be also allowed in underground, because outside will be very cold. And it will be easier for blind musicians to go in the underground, and busking there.
Baluji Shrivastav 26:27
So even though busking is not part of our performances, it's part of our development. It also, it's very good for networking, because when they perform, they don't earn very much money, when they busk, but they meet other people. So that's a very good for networking, and I've got some sort of feedback from those musicians, and they really appreciate also, that loneliness is not there - because otherwise, they're very alone, musicians. And so it [busking] helps them, socialising.
Colin Hambrook 27:14
Again, though, I can--that there are barriers there, in that you you need to get a licence and all those sorts of things in order to take up those opportunities. Have you, have you busked at all in in Covent Garden? I would imagine that would that would be...
Baluji Shrivastav 27:35
So yeah, first question. Yes, of course, there are these barriers, which should be they should make it a bit easier for blind people to opt in [for a] licence which Southbank has done - and very kind of them. But for underground, and from outside, or wherever they want to perform - it should be easier for them.
Baluji Shrivastav 27:58
Second question, yes, I have performed [there] 40 years ago, but there was no licence, nothing. But I was auditioned. And in the first audition, I was passed, and I did perform one, or two days. I didn't perform too many times. Because I really don't like to busk myself. But, well, Linda wants to say something.
Linda Shrivastav 28:23
Well, when Balu first came to Europe, he was in France, and he did have an office, which he called his office; it was the Paris Metro [laughs]. And he met a lot of people and ended up performing in Tunisia, didn't you, in Carthage, because of the musicians that you met there.
Baluji Shrivastav 28:45
Yes, I used to perform in Chatelet Les Halles and Montparnasse. And those were my Paris offices, yes. I used to earn quite a lot of money. And also yes, as Linda said, I performed in Carthage, I performed in Algeria, Libya, and Tunisia. Not only Carthage Festival, but different, other festivals as well. So I was very lucky that I found Arabic musicians who were very kind to take me everywhere; but in London, only in Covent Garden, [I played] only a couple of times.
Colin Hambrook 29:23
And is this with the sitar?
Baluji Shrivastav 29:26
Yeah, I performed with sitar, because it's, within itself, it's very rhythmic instrument. Because its a plucking instrument, and it has got lovely melodies. But if I had some other musicians, I wouldn't have minded performing with some other musicians. But at that moment, I only did it with the sitar.
Colin Hambrook 29:55
I know that you've had you've had a very, very rich and varied career, Baluji. And you've you've performed with quite a few famous musicians as well. It's always an absolute delight to, to hear you play.
Colin Hambrook 30:18
I think the last time I saw you perform was the Unlimited Festival at the Southbank Centre - that's been a great space for you, I feel. I've seen it seen you perform at that festival quite a few times, now, with different musicians from from the Inner Vision group.
Baluji Shrivastav 30:39
That was Unlimited, which funded us to perform here in Queen Elizabeth Hall. And then in three performances in India. And that was I'm very, very thankful to Unlimited. And also -- yes, musicians have been very kind. I performed with Stevie Wonder; Annie Lennox; Boy George; Future Sound of London, Massive Attack; Shakira. And any more, Linda? Yes, you can't remember [laughs] Jazz orient and who?
Linda Shrivastav 31:18
Doves.
Baluji Shrivastav 31:18
Doves, see, Asian doves...no? sorry, doves, only 'Doves'. I get confused. So they have been very kind musicians. And I would like more kind music producers and pop musicians to be kind to us, and ask more of us. Not only me, but the other blind people who are very much capable to perform with them. So that's what I hope. And thank you very much for all the musicians who are listening to me.
Colin Hambrook 31:58
of that thank you Baluji. I wish you all the best, with all of the initiatives that that you're taking part part in: with the upcoming concerts at the Bloomsbury Festival and the Nehru Centre in October. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and I look forward to the survey as well, coming out: Blind to the Facts.
Colin Hambrook 32:32
And if there's anything that Disability Arts Online can do, to help to, get the word out, about about about the results of that survey, then you know, we'd be more than happy to to help promote it.
Baluji Shrivastav 32:51
That's really kind of you, saying some kind words and appreciation, and I promise that DAO will can do a lot for us. Yes. And also, if anybody wants any further information: please contact us on www.balujimusicfoundation.org.
Colin Hambrook 33:15
Fantastic. Thank you very much Baluji and Linda for for taking part in our podcast. We'll bring the conversation to a close for the moment but I would like to thank our listeners for for joining us and and I wish you and the rest of the Inner Vision Orchestra and the Jazz Orient musicians all the best.
Baluji Shrivastav 33:49
Thank you very much, you and Ian, and I hope it will not be so long again; So we will be in contact again. So I'm not ready, yet, because it takes a bit of time for Indian musicians to tune their instruments [sitar music].
Colin Hambrook 34:14
Please join us on the Disability And... podcast next month, when Mind the Gap's Paul Wilshaw chats with artist and activist James Leadbetter, AKA, the vacuum cleaner. Finally, big thanks to Baluji Shrivastav, wishing him the best with the remaining gigs in the current tour. We're delighted that he's kindly offered to play us out with a section from part one of his composition, Inner Vision:
Baluji Shrivastav 34:54
Sitar has got 22 strings, so it takes 22 minutes to tune. Because I'm going to play the Inner Vision tune, the first part of it, which is mainly based on Vasant Mukhari.
Baluji Shrivastav 35:26
It goes like this [melodic sitar tuning]
Baluji Shrivastav 35:52
So here goes the composition: [melodic sitar music]
Baluji Shrivastav 38:18
Thank you.