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This is your go-to podcast for all things marketing, branding, and customer experience. We’re bringing you honest and fun conversations with bite-sized insights. Hosted by BrightSign’s CMO Brian Rowley and Head of Integrated Marketing Laura Smith, you’ll hear from industry pros, creatives, and innovators about what’s actually working in today’s evolving, digital-first world. No fluff — just real insights on how brands are connecting with audiences and driving growth. Tune in for fresh ideas, big thinking, and all the tips you need to take your marketing game to the next level.
Those people need to have a strategy that you invest in and help them build their personal brand. Because when unleashed, they're gonna be the ones that drive 30% of your company's share of voice.
Brian Rowley:Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:And I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:You know, we have all seen it post about employees tend to spark some of the best engagement on LinkedIn and social media for that aspect. So it's actually no surprise that brands actually want to encourage their employees thought leadership on social media so that it help humanize the brand. But I guess the question is where actually is the line? Is asking employees to show up as authentic brand advocates exploitative or empowering? And at what point does it pose a risk for the brand?
Brian Rowley:Today's guest is actually a personal branding expert and will help us sort of dig into the tension between personal and company brands and where that sweet spot rests.
Laura Smith:But before we introduce our guest, it's time for a segment we like to call blast from the past. This is where we'll look back at some of the earlier moments in our careers, eons ago, and see how far the industry has come. Are you ready, Brian? Can you think that far back?
Brian Rowley:Wow. That's harsh.
Laura Smith:That's really harsh. Okay. In the spirit of personal branding, today, we're gonna take a stroll down LinkedIn memory lane. So, Brian, what was your first impression of LinkedIn when you started to join? And let us know when did you join?
Brian Rowley:It was a long time ago. You're absolutely right on that one. No, it's actually interesting. I actually had to go and look this up because I think I've been there since the beginning. I'm not exactly sure when it started, but 2008 was actually when I actually joined.
Brian Rowley:So seventeen years ago. And I can remember at the time I was like, okay, I think you have to be here, but I'm not sure why. And so I know I remember I created a profile and I was looking at it and, you know, I mean, I was in there every once in a while, but I mean, to the point of which I'm engaged with it now, I mean, I'm in there every single day, but definitely wasn't like that. But how about you? And talking, you know, putting me as father time here.
Brian Rowley:Like, when did you join?
Laura Smith:I actually joined the year before you, which means I was on trend. It was 2007, and I actually don't know. I think our guests will probably know exactly when it was started. But 2007 I joined in June, it must have been at some 2006 I joined Facebook, that was when I was allowed to as a non college post grad person. So 02/2007, and it took me eight years to do my first post.
Laura Smith:Wow. I look back today, you know, so I think at the beginning I probably just created an account because of what people were doing. It definitely was so much less of like the ongoing communication, back and forth, and looking for insights and such, so I'm sure I created the account, stood it up, and then as movement started to happen, I guess I just participated. But my first post was asking for advice on for an SEO agency, which I remember exactly who I found and who I used in that moment in which I kind of pulled that, took that pull out there.
Brian Rowley:I don't think you can remember that from eighteen years ago when I
Laura Smith:asked you something I looked about it up today.
Brian Rowley:We can't even remember.
Laura Smith:I looked it up today. I was being very resourceful in preparing for this episode. So, at any rate, but so how I used it then is so different than how we're using it now. Right? So I think it's all about, you know, it took a long time to make that post.
Laura Smith:But now, I would say, like, I would even say probably five to six years ago, people I knew were still not on LinkedIn actively, and that's where I started to get my news every day. My industry news, like, know, the the key feed on the right hand side. Like, I stay there more than I would go to CNN, for instance, or my local news, you know, .com website for news. Like, I feel like LinkedIn to me, I am on it every day all day. And not because I mean, yes, because I'm a marketer, but not because I'm doing marketing esque things there.
Laura Smith:It's truly because I'm gaining a lot of insight and information from a network that I've grown over all those years.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I would agree with that. I I would say, you know, whether it's a crazy rule or not, one of my personal rules about LinkedIn though is especially when it comes to contacts. If I haven't met you or had a conversation with you in person, I don't accept people into my network. And I know that seems a little crazy.
Brian Rowley:But I think it it depends because we all get reached out to by a ton of different people that we don't know and a lot of it you kind of have to weed through, are they selling me something? Do they really want to connect? You know, there's all of those things. So maybe that's actually one of the points we can cover today, right, in this conversation. But I don't know, Lord, do you I mean, do you accept every invitation?
Laura Smith:No. No. I used to. I think when I started, I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because everyone's trying to, you know, grow their network. Now I'm very cautious.
Laura Smith:I, by all means, don't need to meet them in person though. I mean, we're in a virtual world where I'll take on it, but I do I dig. I dig into the person, how many connections do we have. You know, I think a message helps when someone kinda gives context, and if and if they if they're actually honest and say they're gonna try to sell me something, then at least they're honest. But I will say I I guard myself for those.
Laura Smith:I try to filter so I don't get those people trying to sell to me cold sell. So I am cautious, but then when I do open it up, if I feel like they're not gonna do that, and I just have a connection with them through many other people and interests, and then they do try to turn and sell, like, no, then they're gone. Like, I'll remove them. So I am cautious. I I feel like I love growing the network, but I am much more I'll take time to do the research now.
Laura Smith:And before, I never did that. I just accepted because you wanted to have a bigger network. So which, you know, both sides to that. So I would love to hear our guests' opinion on that.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I mean, we have tortured our guest right now long enough. She's like sitting there waiting to chime in here on how crazy we are. So let's introduce. So she's actually a personal branding expert for basically ambitious professionals.
Brian Rowley:She counsels people across industries to shape their personal brand position and actually amplify it. And after starting her career in corporate America, she transferred her passion for branding to help professionals launch best selling books, speaking careers and high ticket training businesses. Now she focuses on helping everyday professionals find their niche. Here to help us explore the impacts actually of personal brand and how it factors into a company's overarching brand, please welcome Kait LeDonne. Kait, welcome.
Kait LeDonne:Thank you. I'm so excited to be here and talk about this.
Brian Rowley:Awesome. We finally turned on that microphone, so now like, you know, it's those that are that don't get to see this, obviously, we can see her expression as we're having our conversation and she's ready to jump at us. I can tell she's ready to get right
Kait LeDonne:into this. It's good. I was I was actually screaming when he said he doesn't connect with people he hasn't met in person. So he's gonna accept a barista, right?
Laura Smith:Oh he probably would if they might.
Kait LeDonne:Dell of Dell Computers, he's never talked to or met in person, That's a hard no, but the barista down the street, that's a yes for
Laura Smith:Brian. So true.
Brian Rowley:Fortunately, we will connect now because we've had this conversation, but we're good. You can help me.
Laura Smith:Okay, Brian.
Brian Rowley:Yes, let's go.
Laura Smith:Okay, we're gonna start off to talk to Kait about personal brand, the importance of personal brand. And so Kait, like, we're gonna start at that macro level. Like what what is a personal brand? Why is it important for professionals to build one? And we do want you to talk about, yes, there's like this LinkedIn and that's kind of where we're honing in, but just more broadly, if you could just share with us why this matters, whether you're in person or on social media, etcetera.
Kait LeDonne:Well, the data definitely does not provide any room for mistaking how important your personal brand is these days. There was a survey, I actually talked to Fast Company about this a week ago. They were doing an article about the AI talent war. You all have maybe heard this, just these crazy packages that AI experts are getting to jump ship and go to other companies. I mean like billion dollar packages in some cases.
Kait LeDonne:So we were talking about how do you make yourself that in demand in any industry? And I was citing a research survey done by a British company that if two professionals that are apples to apples in experience, tenure, skill set are interviewed, the differentiator between whether they get hired and have a pay increase of, I think minimum 10% is presence of a personal brand. And those hiring managers are specifically noting your personal brand as the following. Do you have a LinkedIn presence and are you active on it? In some cases, they're looking at do you speak at industry associations?
Kait LeDonne:In other cases, they're looking at have you been mentioned in the press? But make no mistakes again, your LinkedIn presence is pretty much number one on their list. And so it can make a very measurable difference in your career and what you are getting compensated and whether you're even getting hired if you have one or if you don't.
Laura Smith:That's fascinating. Know, Brian and I were just actually at a conference this week, earlier this week, and it was a marketing executive leadership conference and a lot of, you know, big brands speakers were up on stage. And so some of them would just say, you know, follow me on LinkedIn and be open that up. And so they were fine with, you know, people like myself who they haven't met, and accepting those invitations. However, there were some, and I'm not gonna name names, of course, that if you go to their LinkedIn, they didn't have a picture.
Laura Smith:They haven't posted in, like, eight years or even, like or, like, their last one was, like, their job promotion, and these are, like, CMOs. So it's fact
Brian Rowley:Big companies.
Laura Smith:In big companies. So it was interesting because Brian and I immediately would just look people up, do the research, and the minute you saw one of those, we both would, like, do the eek. What? Like, how is that possible? So to your point, these people are they're growing in their career, potentially in their existing company, but there are people out there that are very successful, big brands, big titles that don't have current LinkedIn presence.
Laura Smith:And so what do you say about that?
Kait LeDonne:Well, A, they're completely missing the boat. This especially surprises me when I hear about it from a CMO because we're looking and seeing CMOs of even user product good companies investing considerably in the platform. And an example I like to point to in the last two weeks is there's a company called, it's either pronounced and forgive me, Vegamore or Vegemore. Okay. Nicole Kidman is an investor and brand advocate.
Kait LeDonne:It's a hair growth company. So if you're struggling with hair thinning or you're postpartum or something, that's their market. They assessed every platform, the CMO, and decided they are going to triple down on LinkedIn, but not because they're hiring, because they identified it as the next opportunity to push advertisements to their demographic. So you will start to see even consumer product goods on that. And it was a CMO concentrated effort and they hired a chief LinkedIn officer and a chief LinkedIn advisor.
Kait LeDonne:Also PayPal just put out a job hiring ad for a head of content marketing for LinkedIn for their CEO. So this person is effectively the CEO's mouthpiece on LinkedIn. And do not quote me exactly on this, but it was well over two hundred grand a year. For this person just to write and present the CEO on LinkedIn. So when I hear that these professionals are not active on the platform or in some cases not even present on the platform, however, some of that might be a privacy setting.
Kait LeDonne:Some people have a weird privacy setting toggled where their picture doesn't show to people they don't know, which is also a miss by the way, because presence of a profile picture is one of the number one indicators of trust, and validation. You are, I just have to ask, what is your marketing strategy if your CMO isn't even on LinkedIn? It seems like a big, big miss.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And and, know, I just I was telling Laura when we were having, you know, a prep conversation for this discussion, you know, I have a family member who actually just is graduating from or just graduated from Northeastern University and is out looking for a job. And I went and looked at their LinkedIn profile, not a lot there. And I'm just amazed that the university itself, there isn't something there that's teaching people like your brand is the most important thing that you can develop coming out of any educational experience. Right?
Brian Rowley:And and how is that missed? Because that was the first thing that I said like, okay, if you're looking for a job, this is where someone's gonna start. And if you don't have anything there, I mean, you're wasting time. Don't even bother sending resumes out in my opinion.
Kait LeDonne:Absolutely. It's funny you all were talking about how long you've been on the platform. I was at a business to business influencer breakfast. Yes, these things exist Last week and there was a young woman at the breakfast and we all had to go around and talk about our relationship with LinkedIn and what it meant to us. And she said, I have been on, I feel Jurassic.
Kait LeDonne:That was the adjective used. I feel Jurassic. I have been on LinkedIn for four years since I was 18. And I was like, first of all, how dare you? Okay.
Kait LeDonne:Wash your mouth. I was back to your elders.
Laura Smith:My eyes just bugged out.
Kait LeDonne:And it got to me and I was like, if you feel Jurassic, like, I've been on the platform since you were five years old. Literally, I did the math. You're 22, like, subtract. The reason I share this story though, aside from thinking, like, youth is wasted on the young, like, this is so crazy. No.
Kait LeDonne:But in all sincerity, she has over 80,000 followers and was able to launch her whole platform straight out of college while in college. And she was admonished really by her professors for posting on LinkedIn, but then got the last laugh because she had more job offers than anybody in her class and ultimately went on to to do her own thing. So I find it interesting that not only was it it wasn't encouraged, or it wasn't taught, but it it really wasn't encouraged. And then she kind of pulled ahead of the pack in that regard. So, yes.
Kait LeDonne:I mean, this should be when you sit down to have your exit interview of college, not that you have one of those, but that should really be like core training number one.
Laura Smith:Yes. Part of any, you know, like from a career counselor, like whatever they, you know, those offices of career, like at the university I went to, it was an, I was telling Brian this, are some folks that have come back to ask me for, like, job advice. They're like my friend's kids who are now graduating from college, and they went to where I went to school, and they did at the time really prep us really well to go for job interviews and all that. And but now these young professionals, like, soon to be one of them was just going into her senior year. She came to talk to me about internships, and her LinkedIn was fascinating.
Laura Smith:It was wonderful, like, wonderfully done. All summer, she posted about her internship experiences. She grew her network. Like, when she came to me kinda blind, I went immediately to look at her her profile. Okay.
Laura Smith:Well, she's a going to be a senior year, and she's done this and that. There's not a ton there, but she was established on LinkedIn. So Mhmm. She must have been taught, or they must have been taught. This is Bentley, just to give my alma mater kudos, that, like, this is a thing you need to do.
Laura Smith:So it's just different that different schools are handling that advice and that, like, you know, kind of, like, setting people up for success a little differently.
Kait LeDonne:Well, think about it too. We're in an era where AI can do your cover letter, AI can do your resume, AI is really your wing person. Even if you use AI to help you polish your LinkedIn presence, it cannot overtake your LinkedIn presence, right, in the sense of talking about your experiences, creating that content, giving someone a peer or a look into who you are. And so it becomes quite a competitive advantage. What am I going to look at and think is more interesting as a hiring manager, this perfectly polished AI cover letter, or I go to LinkedIn and I see, wow, they posted about this project they did with their internship or something.
Kait LeDonne:One screams human being with an experience and the other is just manufactured.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. But Kait, I mean, I know that, you know, clarity around message on LinkedIn is a big point for you. Mhmm. I mean, maybe you can talk to a little bit about that though because there's also people that post everything Mhmm. And then that also becomes very confusing because you you as you establish your brand, like we say it all the time, you can't be everything to everybody.
Brian Rowley:You have to figure out who you are and what that stands for. So can you maybe talk a little bit about that because I think that message clarity is a is a really important piece to sort of people who are establishing themselves.
Kait LeDonne:When you look at effective personal brands, whether people realize it or not, they're essentially posting from three content buckets. Number one is their professional value proposition bucket. And this is pretty specific to LinkedIn. Although if you look at personal brands on other platforms, you could say there's a version of that happening there. But what I mean by your professional value proposition is who do you help and how do you help them?
Kait LeDonne:And this should really be about 70 of your content to keep the main thing the main thing, Brian. Right? But then you also need to balance that with posts that talk about who you are as a person. And so your second bucket here is really what I call your values bucket. This is examples of values that drive you as a person.
Kait LeDonne:So if learning and growth is one of them, you can talk about that. If mindfulness is one of them, can talk about that. If community is one of them, maybe you're posting about how you volunteer with certain charities around your city. And the third bucket is your personal origin story buckets. It's not only important that people recognize who you help and how you help them, they want to know the backstory of how you got to be that person and what makes you that person.
Kait LeDonne:And so for a lot of the people I talk about, it's, well, how did you get into this? What was learning lessons that got you there? If you were talking to yourself five years ago, what would you tell yourself? But the problem is, A, most people don't even bother to clarify that all important first bucket, the professional value proposition, which is effectively who are you serving and how do you help them. It's an outward facing focal point.
Kait LeDonne:Too many people hear personal brand and think it's all about me. The best ones in the world are all about who you help and how you help them and keeping that the biggest bucket of content you're posting from. That builds trust, that builds credibility. But the thing that builds likability with your brand is, again, what values drive your behavior as a human being, and then how did you become that person? And if you don't bookend that first bucket with these other two and get that ratio down of about seventy, fifteen, 15, you run the risk of either being a thought leader with zero personality that people can't connect with or in your words, Brian, someone who posts about everything all the time and maybe you're popular, but nobody knows exactly what you're popular for.
Kait LeDonne:Like, what would I pay you for? What would I hire you for? And so that's the ratio you really need to get down. So for me, I post about seven times a week. Five of those posts are all about how to grow and clarify your personal brand, facets of that.
Kait LeDonne:The other two are about things like travel and how that impacts myself as an entrepreneur and then a story from my entrepreneurship tales or building my own personal brand to make sure that I'm translating as something and someone who feels personable and likable to my audience.
Laura Smith:Yeah. That's that's interesting. I love the buckets because I don't now I'm gonna look at and follow the people I follow to see if they're, like, getting that distribution, you know, not obviously to the t, but, like, understanding where, you know, their their balance is. But let's shift for a minute, and talk about the personal brand and company brand colliding.
Brian Rowley:Mhmm.
Laura Smith:Okay. So is LinkedIn really an employee space or do they share it with the company?
Kait LeDonne:That's such a good question. Well, legally, it's an employee space. Right? You own your brand on LinkedIn. A company cannot, although I've seen many companies try to dictate what you're posting and how you're treating that.
Kait LeDonne:Having said that, it's in your best interest to be really mindful of that. And what I find is the problem here is there is not enough conversation and informed training in conversation between a company and employee when it comes to building both the company brand and the employee brand. Either employees go wild wild west and build their brand and never bother to talk to their manager or HR, and that can turn into a whole bucket of worms. Or the company thinks that it's okay as a policy to say, we want you to repost our company post and you should have our company logo in your LinkedIn. And that's pretty much the long and short of it for most companies.
Kait LeDonne:There is not a dialogue being had from employee to company or from company to employee and certainly not enough training around how those two things interplay, which is such a problem because employees on average have 20 times the network size as a company page. When they share company updates, they get two times the click through rate And a small percentage of employees, measurably, this comes from LinkedIn itself, around 3% of employees can drive 30% of company engagement. So again, it's a critical breakdown here, a critical breakdown on both sides of the table.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And yet companies still look at this, right? And they think that it is probably one of their biggest risks from a brand perspective, right? There are those companies that are out there. And Laura, even in the conference that we were just at, right, I think some of the feedback that came to us was that, I think it was like 43% of the posts that people had were like coming from brand type assets but 57% now were more of their organic, their actual post not being guided and guarded, right, by brand or brand guidelines associated with that, right?
Brian Rowley:But I mean, in the end of the day, right, employees, you know, they do know that they represent the company like at in person events. Right? So I mean, what is your response to that? I mean, I I know the numbers sit there, but like, do you see employees as a risk at all and and how do you get companies to overcome that if that is actually what they're thinking?
Kait LeDonne:I think it's incumbent upon companies to shift that line of thinking. Let me say it like this. That line of thinking is fundamentally broken. If you are looking at your employees as a risk and not saying this is an opportunity that carries a risk, opportunity first, risk second, you're thinking about it backwards. Because again, data would support that it is your most underutilized marketing channel.
Kait LeDonne:Every single one of your employees can become a channel, which is a huge opportunity. But when you attack it from a risk first perspective, you're putting guardrails into place and not strategy into place. The second core breakdown here is, in my experience when I work with companies, most companies look at all employees as the same thing and they're identifying them as advocates or amplifiers, right? These are people that should be amplifying or advocating our message. No, Some people are advocates and amplifiers and will only ever be advocates and amplifiers reposting the company post and maybe reposting with their opinion on top of it.
Kait LeDonne:But there is a core other bucket that you need to identify and that is your creators, your internal creators. And these are the people that are very game to create organic content, to talk about the company from their own perspective, to not feel like they need the crutch of company updates to do it. Those people need to have a strategy that you invest in and help them build their personal brand because when unleashed, they're gonna be the ones that drive 30% of your company's share of voice, but you need to give them a strategy versus guardrails, and you need to talk about how to do those things together. The fundamental problem, though, as I said, is that companies mostly just see all of their employees as amplifiers and do not take the time to say, well, who are our kind of internal creators that with the right shepherding, with the right investment, with the right strategy, we can really groom here in a good way to become a huge personal brand and then give them a strategy. Everybody else, we can talk to them about amplification.
Kait LeDonne:And this is something that Google does really well. They are the company that has the most employees with blue LinkedIn influencer top badges, right? The second company behind them is their competitor, Microsoft. But Microsoft has half of the top voices. And what Google does really well is allows those creators to be creators in their own right.
Kait LeDonne:And when you look at the top voices in Google, most of them don't have top voice badges that are tied specifically to their day job. One of their heads of retail has a top voice badge for gender equity in the workplace. That's a passion that she's very, very, you know, emboldened in that she's that she's passionate about. So they're not saying, oh, you only have to talk about Google and retail. They clearly have identified her as a creator.
Kait LeDonne:They know what her focus is. They're letting her do that. And oh, by the way, she's also gonna talk about Google's retail strategy. So it's a nice Trojan horse in that way. And of course, they as a company are winning by saying we have the most top voices on LinkedIn of any company in the world.
Kait LeDonne:That's huge.
Laura Smith:Yeah, I go back to the point that Brian, you started to raise where when someone goes to speak at a conference or they're going in front of customers or clients and representing the brand, they understand the quote unquote rules of the road. You know, you're representing the company, you know how to talk about, you know, the value proposition, everything, and you're showing up in a ideally, a professional light because they you know you're wearing potentially even, like, branding on your clothing, whatever. But some folks, when they go on LinkedIn, they feel like they have more freedom Mhmm. And maybe what they say isn't necessarily associated with the brand. And it kinda ties back to what you were saying earlier where brands can't dictate.
Laura Smith:It is their it is their personal kind of presence on a platform. But I guess how do you give people advice around if you are on a stage, it's really no different than if you're on LinkedIn, and you have to be careful and mindful of what you're talking about from a professional standpoint, as well as some of the other elements where people know your company name is right below your title.
Kait LeDonne:Yeah. This is where as an employee and when I work with organizations and when we talk to their people, I tell them you have to talk to your people about career impact. Because the second you start talking about be mindful of this because it could come back on the company, be mindful of this because it could come back on the company, as a company we don't want you to do this, You're already creating a block in that person's head. It's like, okay, they only care about the company. But if you sit down with your people and say, let's look at this from a career impact standpoint.
Kait LeDonne:If you see something crazy on LinkedIn, it's going to harm your career long term. Like remove us, the company, from the equation. You are now shortchanging yourself and bringing potential risk and damage for your ability to be hired again. They're going to feel more bought into that. And so you have to coach them around what is good and kosher to say as it relates to their career impact and longevity.
Kait LeDonne:And I find more buy in and more consciousness happens around that because you're not coming at them and creating this defensiveness. Well, you only care about the company. You don't care about my authentic voice. Yes, I do. I care about your long term career.
Kait LeDonne:As such, I'm going to give you training and guardrails that will help you have a better career long term, whether it's with us or not with us. And those tenants, those guardrails that you help educate them on about what it means for their career long term, they're the same things that would protect your company from damage, Right? But I find most companies come at it the wrong way. So it kind of creates this company best interest versus employee best interest versus we're investing in you and your career. Let us tell you about what that looks like for your career.
Kait LeDonne:If you make it you centered, employee centered, there's more likely of a chance they're gonna think about that and put their own guardrails into place because they realize how it's gonna impact them, not just like, oh, the home office called, you're in trouble. Adult wants that.
Brian Rowley:But in addition to that, I think it's also it is career, but it's their brand. Again, if we could get people to think about everything that they say on LinkedIn or anywhere else, to your point, Laura, if you're standing on a stage or if you're out in an environment, no matter what, if your colleagues are showing up in a certain place or a community that you're looking to be a part of, it is your brand. It doesn't matter what you're saying, everything that you are saying at some point could evaluate your next step no matter where it is. So take the company brand out of it in my opinion, look at it from your own brand perspective and understand what the impacts could be in that case. That that's the piece to me that I think to your point, if we shift the conversation less about, oh, it it's gonna impact our our our brand, it was gonna impact your brand.
Brian Rowley:That's That's what you should be focusing on.
Kait LeDonne:That's right. And not enough companies provide that training or that conversation to people because they're so focused on, again, the risk, not the opportunity for both themselves and their people. So you're approaching it fundamentally wrong as an employer or not even conscious of the fact that this is core training we should have now that every employee is equal parts and opportunity and a liability.
Laura Smith:Yeah, it's interesting because we're in marketing, so we understand the value of professional and personal brands. Right? So I think does everybody, Kait? Like, do you encounter people who are like, I I don't worry about my personal brand. Like, you know, like, I am who I am.
Laura Smith:I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna do my job, I'm gonna be who I am. But, like, I feel like, quote, quote, growing up earlier on in my career, I feel like that was that was kind of, like, hammered in a bit, you know, as, like, growing up and understanding, and people would coach you on that a bit more. I think it matters maybe more to the younger generations today because they're so focused on their personal brand, but you must encounter some people who are like, I don't really care. Like, I'm in this role that doesn't really understand the value of it or doesn't understand what it means, to be honest.
Laura Smith:Mhmm. So how do you go about training on that or making people understand? Or maybe you find people everyone does get it. I don't know. Maybe I'm off base.
Kait LeDonne:At this point, I think everybody gets it or gets that there's opportunity. I don't think everybody realizes how that directly impacts them. So last week I was at a conference speaking to the legal profession. Talk about I like poor offender number am married to an attorney so I have no problem saying this. They are so, so bad at LinkedIn.
Kait LeDonne:All of them really. Mean, there's if if you're good at LinkedIn or you're even active, meaning you log on to the platform once a month, congratulation, you're in the 1% of the legal profession. And I get it. It's it's by nature an industry that is, again, very risk adverse. Everything is a risk.
Kait LeDonne:And so it doesn't matter until it matters, right? If you're comfortable and you're firm and everything's gravy and you're fine, then wonderful. You're sitting here doing contracts in the background. The second you want to go for partner, you want to look at jumping ship and going to another firm, you want to go in house, and this is specific to this field, but take it for anybody. You better believe that the ultimate leverage is your personal brand.
Kait LeDonne:And sadly, I see too many people realize that when they're ready to make a transition, not as a strategic approach before a transition. And so, there is a ton of professions where, you know, engineers, I hate to say it, it's like mostly the left brain professions, engineers, accountants, attorneys, or it's like, I'm just doing the work. And I'm like, first of all, you all are gonna be the first to be replaced by AI. Okay? It's logical work.
Kait LeDonne:So watch your back in that regard. It's really important that you show up as a human being. Second of all, it doesn't matter until it absolutely does. You might be comfortable today, but let's take the example of the pandemic. I mean, legal in particular was an all out talent war.
Kait LeDonne:People were getting poached left and right and offering insane exit packages. Those exit packages probably could have been measurably increased if you had a personal brand. The number of home builders I've talked to recently who want a presence on LinkedIn, I've worked with and talked to the CEO of a roll up dump dumpster company. These people recognize that even in an extremely quote unquote quote unquote blue collar industry like construction, home building, roll up dumpsters, like one eight hundred GOT JUNK, it's important to me as a c suite to be visible on this platform, talking about my vision for my industry. That's where I really see the bell curve.
Kait LeDonne:Like, okay, the late adopters are here, right? Grandma's on Facebook, roll up dumpster CEOs are on LinkedIn, everybody's here. You know, if you as an attorney are not active on LinkedIn, but the roll up dumpster guy is like you have some serious ground to cover. You really do.
Brian Rowley:But it's no different than anything else. Right? Show up where your audience is.
Kait LeDonne:Mhmm.
Brian Rowley:So so you know, that construction firm, I'm sure there's plenty of people on LinkedIn who have plenty of money that are out there looking for someone in that field. Right? It would make sense that that would be a place that you may show up.
Kait LeDonne:O'Brien, there is not plenty of people with plenty of money on this platform. There's the largest concentration of wealth on this platform. There's more millionaires on this platform than any other platform. The highest household income exists on this platform. The wealthiest millennials exist on this platform.
Kait LeDonne:If you are in any business that is selling to that demographic, whether you are business to business or Vegemoor, Vegemoor, business to consumer, if that is, I should have got that pronunciation
Laura Smith:that's a brand problem for them.
Kait LeDonne:That's not my problem. That's their problem.
Laura Smith:Definitely not your problem. That's not
Kait LeDonne:my problem. Regardless, if that is a demographic you are interested in, high net worth, you better be on it. There By the way, LVMH has been streaming their fashion shows on this platform since 2018. No accident there. No accident there.
Laura Smith:But it still fascinates me that there's so many executives. And and I come from before I was here, I was in the agency side doing a lot of executive comms, for big brands, and it's really hard to convince executives to spend time. You know, even if some of it we even faced, and, you know, this is face, but, like, here's the content. Just post it. Or give me access to your LinkedIn, we can post it.
Laura Smith:And there's still a lot of resistance. I still I still I don't know if it's generational. I don't know if it's industry specific, but it does still fascinate me that even given the tools to help do that, like that person whose job is going to be to do that for the CEO, but there are some and and kudos to that CEO for recognizing that, you know, that they need that that resource, but there are still executives out there that are not active and are active enough to really feel like they have such a platform to help influence and they're not using it, which is unfortunate.
Kait LeDonne:It's either generational trauma, and I don't throw that around lightly, little t trauma, as they say, in the sense of you show up and do your job and nothing more, nothing less. Or it's bureaucratic trauma, meaning you were raised in a large company, you were trained in a large company, and that is just not the way we do things. Know, it's not surprising that PayPal being as large as it is, it's a tech company at the end of the day. They are more innovative that that is the company that's willing to shell out that big paycheck to, you know, help their CEO. I will be more impressed when HSBC does it or some very big bank or financial institution or the top law firm.
Kait LeDonne:It's when that happens, I think we'll really see the shift. But a lot of it is you were brought up in an industry, whether it's financial or professional services or professional consulting, where it was super buttoned up, very traditional, don't make waves, keep your head down, get the promotion, accelerate within that company, that you're carrying all of that career baggage with you to all of a sudden get to the c suite and be like, well, now I have a brand. It's a hard switch. It really is a hard switch.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I think you definitely hit the nail on the head there.
Brian Rowley:But I also think it's difficult, you know, when to your point earlier, when, you know, executive of an organization shows up as a thought leader with no personality behind it, it's also not someone that people are gonna gravitate towards. So I mean, there is a mindfulness of being on social media that I think again, going back to your own personal brand, not all of us define our lives by just the work that we do. It's a well rounded individual that has interests outside of the job that they do with the people that they engage with the community. There could be a lot of different things associated with that. All of that needs to come through as well.
Brian Rowley:And and I I mean, you know, I would just say to, you know, executives that are out there, if you've got a team that's willing to help you through that, take advantage of it. I mean, clearly, Kait, based on what you've said, the numbers are here. Right? The value is here. So, like, if we look at it purely from an ROI perspective, your return on investment is gonna be well worth it in the long run.
Kait LeDonne:And listen, I know it can be a little frightening to hand that over to a team because the last thing you want them to tell you is like, have to do this silly TikTok dance and we're gonna put it on LinkedIn. That's not what we're talking about here. Right. Right. We are talking about they will give you content and run it through your values filter.
Kait LeDonne:If it doesn't align with what your personal values are, great. Veto power. Because the last thing you also want to do is kind of like the performative authenticity that people will smell that a mile away too. So you can delegate the creation while holding the ultimate filter of, well, does this represent my values of a person, which is, you know, community, integrity, things like that. If it doesn't check out on your filters, it's probably gonna come across super inauthentic.
Kait LeDonne:That's the easy litmus test for you. So, yeah, if if fun isn't a core value of yours, it is to mine. I one of the things I love about having my own business is I can interject humor as much as I want to. But if that isn't yours as CEO and your team's telling you to do a crazy dance, you should feel empowered to say, it's not authentic. I wanna put out content, but I I don't think that that's ultimately gonna read as authentic to me.
Kait LeDonne:So let's think about this in a few other ways.
Laura Smith:But that also requires that executive to be upfront with the team that is creating that content to say, this is who I am. This is what I value. This is how I spend my outside of work time. Like, give that have that transparency upfront so you're not getting off value or off base content. Right?
Laura Smith:So I think it's a two way street. Someone can help you craft and create that content, but you need to be very forthcoming with, here's who I am, here's where my comfort level is, and and allow them to push a little bit, but just know where that where that wall is in which you don't wanna be pushed too far. I just think it has to be a relationship there in order for that to come across as authentic. Because you have to get to know somebody
Kait LeDonne:to truly
Laura Smith:You do. On their behalf.
Brian Rowley:It's not easy. I mean, handing over that control to somebody else is is naughty. It is a little unnerving. Like, we've all like, you do have to have that trust in order to be able to do that. We all know that.
Brian Rowley:There are people that can capture someone's voice extremely well, and then there are others that you can look at it and be like, that's not that person. And that doesn't I I don't think that the latter helps people again in but again, it's your brand. You know who you are, you know who you stand for. You need to make sure that people who are supporting you align with that.
Kait LeDonne:That's right.
Laura Smith:Okay. I mean, this has been fascinating, but we're gonna have some fun, some real fun now. Kait, are you ready? Because you're gonna enter our hot seat.
Kait LeDonne:I did say fun was a core value of mine. So do your worst.
Laura Smith:Okay. So let's let's let's make this fun. Okay. So Kait, we're asking you for your LinkedIn deal breaker. What's the one thing you would never do in a LinkedIn post?
Kait LeDonne:I would never pause myself crying to take a picture and post a picture of myself crying. I truly believe there is an undiagnosed mental illness if you film yourself crying and put it on social media. I said what I said.
Laura Smith:I mean, I feel like I know who your target is.
Brian Rowley:Your example of what you're talking No,
Kait LeDonne:unfortunately there's plenty of examples. Yes. Okay. Unfortunately there's way too many. Can think of three people off the top my head.
Kait LeDonne:One predominantly and famously on LinkedIn a couple of years ago, but if
Brian Rowley:you Okay, are not admitted to name that person.
Kait LeDonne:No, no, no, no, I'm not going to. I'm not
Brian Rowley:going to.
Laura Smith:But We said have fun, Brian. Why ruin the fun?
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Card reels, card reels.
Kait LeDonne:You're a Google search away from fun. Exactly. Exactly. Know exactly what you're But having said that, truly performative authenticity, if you are truly having an emotional moment and you stop to film yourself, that's just crazy.
Laura Smith:I have a question that kind of plays off of that, and I know we only have so much more time. But so there's so much talk on LinkedIn about that like personal content being shared, right? And I think we're maybe over it, I don't know. Because but I hate what I hate what I see is someone posting on LinkedIn. I know people don't like this content on LinkedIn, but the but so I either feel like, oh, we'd be on the butt and just let that be the content that we share too.
Laura Smith:That's like someone whether it be a vacation and really just talking about the vacation, not about, like, the work life balance. Or there's a death in the family, and they wanna just communicate to their network that someone had passed. That should be okay, I think, but let's remove the but to have to explain or have rationale for why you're doing it. Do you think this platform is in an authentic way, of course, Kait? Is that is platform for that content?
Kait LeDonne:It can be. Again, if it fits into your buckets. Look, I posted about having a child, and I have no aspirations of being a mommy blogger. That's not why I posted about it. I posted about it because I genuinely was interested in learning how I'm going to figure out balancing a business and motherhood and what better platform to learn out loud about that than LinkedIn where there are plenty of working parents.
Kait LeDonne:So I think that's the thing is you're learning out loud and you're using those personal stories to do it, it's gonna read authentic. Having said that, never write what having a child taught me about b to b sales. Okay? That's like, continuation. Proposing to my girlfriend taught me about B2B sales.
Kait LeDonne:You are then a statistic. Okay?
Brian Rowley:And we'll be talking about you on the next episode.
Kait LeDonne:We will. And we will name names. Okay?
Brian Rowley:At my point, we'll name names. But Laura, I think the point though is it's not so much the content, it's actually that setup. Like the fact that you felt the need to say, oh, I know this isn't content, but if the but wasn't there and you just posted what you were thinking, I think it would come across better.
Laura Smith:Well, now, but it LinkedIn wasn't that way.
Brian Rowley:No. I agree.
Laura Smith:Right? So that transition has happened. I feel like we've kinda I'm beyond that point. I'm like, I don't care if someone posts about, you know, their vacation with their family or what that you know, I don't you know, and if I don't wanna read something, I just don't read it. But Mhmm.
Laura Smith:So it doesn't bother me or offend me. I just you know, that butt is still being carried over because they feel like they need to have that crutch as to explain why, and my thing is, like, if you feel like you need that, then just stop. Don't do
Brian Rowley:it. Mhmm.
Laura Smith:Mhmm. You know? Like, keep it on your personal platforms if that's what feels Okay. More authentic to Well, Kait, this has been so much fun. I feel like we say we've said this well, if people actually knew how we started this call, we had probably 10 of fun banter between Kait Brian and myself because we ironically, we're talking about names of children, how do you name children, it really tied to brand personal brand.
Laura Smith:But we won't go into the the depths of that. But it's been fun recording this episode as well as even, having some introductory conversation with you, Kait. So thank you so much for joining us today.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, Kait, thanks so much.
Kait LeDonne:Thank you both for having me. It's a really important topic. It's going to be one that just continues to gain more and more importance if you're an employer. So thanks for for holding the space for it.
Brian Rowley:Laura, I don't know about you, but I mean, there's so much that we learn from this, right? I mean, I think the bucketing of sort of content was actually really important that seventy, fifteen, 15, you know, and the focus on who you help and how you help them as being some of the lead for some of those conversations in that bigger bucket, but then also being human and not just being, you know, that thought leader without person. I mean, looks for people's personality. People engage with people because of who they are. So I think all of that stuff for me was actually really important.
Laura Smith:Yeah, I think the buckets are interesting because I feel like now I'm going to be judging everyone I follow to see if they have that balance. So I thank Kait for kind of giving opening my eyes to that because I think that will shine through, quite easily. But I think the biggest thing, something I wrote down that Kait said was really about the personal brand isn't about me. Don't make it about me, which I think because it's about who you help and how you help people. And I think that is fundamentally not how people innately think about a personal brand.
Laura Smith:It's all about me, and we have to stop doing that. So I find that to be fascinating. I almost like write it down for myself to be like, right. This isn't about me, and I think sometimes that's when you get to that take a personal level, that's where you could go wrong. So I loved how she broached that, that concept.
Laura Smith:So it was great. So much so much to learn.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And for everybody that's listening, if you're out there on LinkedIn and you don't have a headshot, get yourself a headshot. Get yourself a headshot.
Laura Smith:Not one of you like in
Kait LeDonne:your bedroom
Laura Smith:though, like, you know, with like your windows behind you. I feel like it's get a real headshot.
Brian Rowley:Right? A professional headshot, who you are. It's your brand. Let's not forget that. And one that signals trust is an important piece to having people engage with you.
Brian Rowley:So thanks for listening and most importantly if you like what you heard today be sure to follow us. If you want to hear more from Kait LeDonne, it's safe to say you can find her on LinkedIn.