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Learn Persian with Chai and Conversation teaches you conversational Persian in a fun and casual manner in weekly lessons of about 15-20 minutes each. Check out our website chaiandconversation.com for more information.
Leyla: Jasmin Mozaffari, thank you so much for being on the show.
Jasmin: Thank you for having me, Leyla jān. I'm so excited to be here. I've been such a fan of Chai and Conversation for years, so.
Leyla: Oh, that's so nice. Well, first, how do you usually pronounce your name, your last name, when you're doing interviews and things?
Jasmin: You know, it's the Western way. I grew up just saying Jasmin Moza-fāri, which is not really the the proper way to say it, but.
Leyla: Yeah, it's it's funny. Like, the sounds are not different. Like the, you know, there is the ‘a’ sound in English. It's strange that we have to, like, change it to an ‘ā’ sound. I don't know why all the names are like that.
Jasmin: I know, exactly. And, I guess, like, I think my father just wanted us to fit in so much so that we just. He never was, like, pronounce it right, you know?
Leyla: Right. And his name was Bābak, right?
Jasmin: Yeah.
Leyla: So then how would he pronounce that? Or what was his name when he was introducing himself?
Jasmin: He called himself Bob.
Leyla: Okay.
Jasmin: He introduced himself as Bob to make people more. Because, you know, we grew I grew up in a place called Barrie, which is outside of Toronto. It's like an hour north, and that place is very conservative, very white. There's like no Middle Eastern people at all, especially I grew up in like the early 2000s, like very post 9/11 was my coming of age. So, that time especially was not the time to be, I don't know, my dad just wanted to blend in and, nobody could say his name either, you know, like, I don't even. I think it's not so much that they couldn't say it. It's because they didn't want to try, you know?
Leyla: Right. Absolutely. But again to go back, introducing you. So I recently watched you create a short film, fantastic film called Motherland. It's on Vimeo right now. So everybody I urge you to just pause this interview and go watch it. It's only, what, 24 minutes, 27 minutes long.
Jasmin: 24. Yeah.
Leyla: Okay. 24 minutes long. So go watch it. And we'll try not to have a lot of spoilers but it does, you know, like all short films, every minute in that film counts. You know, it's saying a lot. And, every expression, every sentence really means a lot. But can you tell us a bit about the film? Just introduce it and why people should watch it.
Jasmin: Yeah. So it's called Motherland. It's 24 minutes. It's about, a man, an Iranian immigrant named Babak, who comes from Iran, and he's meeting, in the film he's meeting his American fiancé's parents for the first time during American Thanksgiving. But it's also in 1979 during the Iran hostage crisis. So he's meeting the parents during the height of the Iran hostage crisis in Iowa. It's based off of my father's experience in the U.S. during the Iran hostage crisis. He was about, my dad came over late 70s and he was about 19 or 20 when that happened. So, he actually met my mom in Canada, not in the U.S, but I put it I staged in the U.S because I thought there's a little bit more stakes there. And, and my father was in Massachusetts during the hostage crisis, and it was dangerous for him. You know, he faced a lot of threats and eventually he left, partly because of the racism he faced. He left for Canada, and that's where he had me and everything. So, yeah, very much based on the story of my parents, especially my dad, Babak.
Wow. And it's, yeah, it's a it says a lot in, this short period of time that the film goes on and it shows the beginning scene is kind of him being chased through a campus. And, you know, a lot of, I think a lot of our parents generation really did experience this. So what would your father say about this time to you? Like what, what sparked this time period as something that you wanted to, to talk about in your film? Well, it's interesting because my father isn’t actually around anymore. He passed away in 2013, so he.
Leyla: I’m sorry.
Jasmin: It's not like I could talk to him about it, per se. But he mentioned, you know, he would like, mention things here and there. I feel like my, my father's generation of Iranian immigrants, at least from my point of view, you know, kept a lot of things to themselves. You know, you'd hear things through like in passing through little anecdotal stories. So I feel like he would say, oh I was in Massachusetts and we were like running around Massachusetts chasing Italian girls for the first time. And we were like they were just trying, really trying to live that American dream that they had maybe when they were in Tehran, had watched John Travolta movies, and it was right before the revolution where Tehran was like this bustling metropolis. So that's where my dad came from. He was wearing bellbottoms. He had this, like, swagger about him. I think from what my mom, I had to lean on my mom, really to to tell me everything. And also my Iranian family, his brothers. But for him, during that time, from what I've heard from his brothers, he was kind of like in a weird, dangerous place on campus, like a lot of, he actually got into like a bar fight with a bunch of American men who ganged up on him which I didn't even, you know, put it in the film. But as I researched this, and actually, the University of Texas archives has an amazing, video record of what happened on campuses, especially in Texas, actually, for the Iranian students there. And it was pretty hostile for them on campus. Yeah. So it was, some of the archival footage that I have at the beginning of the film is from the University of Texas archives.
Leyla: Wow. Interesting. Okay. So just a mile down the road from me.
Jasmin: Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. And they have, like, it's not even something you can really just go on. You, you, there are clips on YouTube, but I really wanted to see what it was like for these students on campus. And those those records are kept kind of hidden. And you have to kind of pay. They're behind paywalls and stuff like that. So, and, you know, The New York Times has archives, the Washington Post has archives. And once you start digging, you realize, oh, it was hard for a lot of Iranian students. Really hard.
Leyla: Yeah. That's so interesting. And I actually I talked to a professor here. I did something, a project about Persepolis, and he was like, “Oh, Iran”. Like, I remember he was like “I was studying at the university in the 70s, and I remember all these good looking men, just good looking men came down and like they were all here.” So I think it was like that in the 70s, you know, like you were saying, they came from this bustling metropolis. They were, well dressed. They were, you know, they come to these like little, little towns and little colleges. They were exotic looking and for a while, like, Iranians were really revered. And then all of a sudden, things turned around. So I think that's an interesting part of it as well. They like, went from being like looked up to to suddenly being the pariahs.
Jasmin: Yeah. No, I wanted to really highlight the moment where everything changed.
Leyla: Yeah. That's wild.
Jasmin: Because it felt like it felt like it was just this moment. And also it was this time in American history, it was post-Vietnam War. The the country was quite divided. And then there was this, like, I think Nightline was invented because of the Iran, the hostage crisis.
Leyla: Right, right. Yeah. The every night they'd have like a report.
Jasmin: Yes. Exactly. So it but this was the first time there was this, like, constant tuning in of a crisis for Americans to watch. And who was on the TV? It was these guys with beards burning the American flag, like. And, and then all of a sudden they're looking at the campus and being like, hold on, you look like that guy. You should go back to your country, get the hell out of the U.S.
Leyla: And the big thing that you highlight in the film, too, that I just loved, that we cannot even fathom, is how hard it was to get in touch with family members in Iran. That, I mean, we have stories. My family all came to Dallas, Texas, and, they have stories about how I mean, it was so expensive to call, first of all. So you didn't just call any time you wanted. They have a story where some payphone was hacked so that you could call any number. So you'd have to, like, drive out an hour. And there was this, like, one payphone that they could call Tehran sometimes and just, like, talk but, you know, that was. And so then it was like, free. But otherwise they had to pay many cents per minute to call. So you had to kind of get all your things that you wanted out, as quickly as you could. Babak in your film has an experience where he calls and he can't hear. So it wasn't this like constant communication. So that's so scary to me. Like, you're you just send your kid off to another continent and then you don't hear from them. They're just on their own. And then you're like, country is falling apart at the same time.
Jasmin: Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Leyla: Wow. What a thing.
Jasmin: My maman bozorg would send my father letters and he, he was she had three sons and he was the only son that left like right away. Like as soon as he was like 20, he's like, I'm leaving. So I think for her it was like. And she also, you know, was like a single mom, like my, my grandfather was actually killed in Iran, so she was, she had. There's all this baggage. And I kind of put that into the film, you know, like you hear her on the other end of the phone, and I really modeled that off of her, that worry in her voice, constant, you know, you know, like, you need, like, are you should go to Canada, you should leave. Things are bad. Like that was just taken from her. And she really passed down that worry, to my father, that sort of paranoia. And down to me. Like it really, it's amazing how generational trauma travels.
Leyla: Yeah. Of course, but who could blame them? Like all this stuff, like when you read about it, it's like, how did we even get to where we are right now? It's a miracle. But then what about from your mom's perspective? Can you talk about, what you heard from your mom's perspective?
Jasmin: Yeah, I think, like you said, she. So she grew up in Canada in a very, very small farm town. I think in a province called Alberta, which I would say is very similar to North Dakota. Like, just to put it in perspective for Americans. But it was a, she grew up in a town with probably like 1300 people and then went to this university that was in a, a small city. And that's where she saw my dad. And it was like, oh my God, who's this guy? Look at him. She'd never seen anybody like that in her life. And, they got together. And then obviously when the hostage crisis happened, they actually, she hadn't met him yet, but, like, there was that in the 80s when she was with him, there was that stink on Iranians still. And, my grandfather on that side, like her father, didn't speak to her for two years when he was like, oh, you're marrying, you want to marry an Iranian? We're not. We're done for a while. So. And that's like from Canadians, too. So, it was tough for her to integrate him into the family. It was tough for him to integrate. And but in that time, she learned a lot about Iranian culture from him. There was this, like, group of Iranians at the university, and my, my father was a part of, like, whatever, the Iranian Student Association and, that she sort of started to learn about the culture that way and really appreciated it. But, it's funny because I don't think she thought about the race like I think my father was. It's not like now where we talk a lot about stuff. I think that she only thought about it later, and I think I put that into her character where there's this naivete, naivete about what her partner's going through. And also this naivete for, like, everything will be fine. We'll just get married. It's fine. Babak, you can tell for him it's not going to be fine. So I think that that I wanted to really highlight also, that there's that love there, but there's this like naiveness between them of, like, who cares about politics? We can just do it. But it's not that easy.
Leyla: Yeah. So what happened with your grandfather? Like, how did that how did they start talking? And what's your relationship with him now?
Jasmin: Well, it's, it's interesting because my, my mom, like, brought, I guess once they got engaged or, I don't know, maybe when they were just dating, my mom started bringing my dad to this small town in Alberta where she grew up and, like, taking him on the tour to meet her family who are all very farmer like, you know, and there's funny pictures of, like this, like Iranian brown guy, and then surrounded by, like, these, like, very rural. So but they actually ended up really liking him because I think, you know, like in the film, Babak is eager to fit in. My name's Bob. Just call me Bob. Like, you know, I speak English well, which was a benefit to him. So like, you know, he had a bit of an accent, but I think he could just blend in a little bit better. And they all really loved him. And then once my mom's sister, actually, who's younger, was said to my grandfather, you need to get over this. You need to you need to let this go. And we need to just invite him into the home. And I have a picture, actually, from when they first when my dad first came into the home. And he looks so out of place. But after that, they became, you know, actually like father and son because my dad didn't have a father growing up. He lost his father very young. And then my grandfather, who's also of German heritage, didn't have sons. He only had daughters. So it was like it actually felt like they were meant to be. And my grandfather's long, like passed now, because he's what was quite old. But he, they they loved each other and.
Leyla: Yeah. Wow. Interesting. And what was your relationship like with your grandfather?
Jasmin: Good. He was. I think also once my parents had kids, he really got over any sort of racism. I think that was like, okay, you know, I was I was his, my grandfather's first grandchild, too, so I think I think then it was like we became this sort of new Canadian Western, the new what a new family looks like. And so many families look like now with this blended, this blended culture.
Leyla: Right. Well so you’re neem-rooni is what we call them on the program. So you're half Iranian, half Canadian. And what is what was your like culture identity growing up? Because you're saying that your father was really assimilating. He was really. But then your mom was really interested in Iranian culture. And I find that in our program that happens so often or with friends that I have, especially with, like a white mom and an Iranian husband. It's like the woman is kind of the bearer of the culture and the cultural traditions. And a lot of times the dad's like, it doesn't matter if they learn Persian, but then the mom is like, they need to learn Persian. What is Nowruz? What is shabé yaldā, what is all this stuff like? Let's do it. So what was your experience with that? With your parents?
Jasmin: I think my my mom was very into learning, the culture. And like, my mom and they met at university, the University of Saskatchewan, which is like, you know, like in a, in a, in a little farm city. And that's where I was born. And there they actually, I think because of this Iranian student association, there was like somebody teaching Farsi classes. This was in the this was in the 80s.
Leyla: Yeah.
Jasmin: So it was a different you know, if my mom had Chai and Conversation podcast, she'd probably listen to it every day, you know what I mean? But that didn't exist. So she did try to learn Farsi so she could actually, you know, talk to her mother in law, my my grandmother, who who now knows English much better. But back then it was hard to communicate. So I think that's what she learned. The fundamentals of Farsi, you know, like the conversation a little bit, but not enough to, sort of enforce Farsi to be learned at home, which was really unfortunate for me because my, there's, there's three of us, like three kids, and we never we we we didn't learn the language. My my grandmother, my maman bozorg actually came and lived to help raise me a bit, and she was teaching me. But then when she left, there was nobody. And my father was very like, we're we're in Canada now. You're Canadian, you know. But he also at the same time was very proud of his culture. So we always celebrated Nowruz. We my, we always ate all the food, you know, like my grandmother, I really feel like he would just have my maman bozorg come and live with us just to make the food.
Leyla: Fair.
Jasmin: Yeah, yeah. So we, I ate wonderful dishes and also like my, cousins from Iran came at a young age. We grew up together.
Leyla: Oh, wow. Okay. How nice.
Jasmin: I was around it. I heard Farsi my whole life, but I couldn't fully speak it, which is, such a painful thing, really, for me. But even though I, I know more now, but I still couldn't, like, have, like, a full, complicated conversation with somebody. And, and then growing up, also growing up in this town where I grew up in when I was 13 is when, like, the the terrorist attacks happened in 9/11. So I was like, after that, it was just like we my I remember my father saying to me, he was driving us in the car and he looked at me in the rearview mirror and he said, just out of the blue, he said, Jasi, just don't tell anybody you're Iranian. Just say, maybe he was trying to find the better word, like Middle Eastern. Just say Middle Eastern because he was just I think he'd gone through the the hostage crisis and he's like, he had this worry of like, we're in this town. We're not there's not many Iranians in this town. And I'm worried that, you know, you'll face some things. And and I definitely did in like a micro aggressive sort of way for sure. So that also made me feel ashamed of who I was a little bit. And then when I got older, like in my late 20s and into my 30s, I was like ready to reclaim, like ready to be like, this is half of who I am. And I've neglected it for many years.
Leyla: Right. Yeah. And I mean, you, do all of your siblings, like, look Iranian like like you present as Iranian, right?
Jasmin: Yeah. I think we all do. Like, we all like, you know, we all. One thing you're going to get is the eyebrows for sure. And also like, I also like, had a very, And I feel like it's important for me to talk about this, but like, I also like, was born with a very Iranian nose. And when I was young, I got made fun of a lot for that. And then when I was 18, I begged my dad to help me get a nose job, and I did.
Leyla: Oh, you did okay.
Jasmin: Well, I still have. They didn't take everything away.
Leyla: But you have a beautiful nose.
Jasmin: I feel that that erased part of my identity as well and when I was that age, I was like, oh, I don't want to look. There was a shame over, like, looking Middle Eastern too and, I think it's like a conversation that's coming more into focus now. But I'm like, you know, all these things we did to make ourselves look more Western or white or whatever. So, yeah, it's it's like it's been such a complicated identity for me to have, but, I'm so proud of it now. And my. And before my dad passed, he wrote me a letter, actually, that I opened after he passed away and it said, you're Iranian. Never forget that, be proud of who you are.
Leyla: Oh, wow.
Jasmin: So it was like, I carry that with me all the time.
Leyla: Wow. He knew he was going to pass and he wrote you a letter?
Jasmin: Yeah.
Leyla: Oh my goodness. Wow.
Jasmin: Yeah. That my mom gave me after. So it was like I have that. And I'm he was very proud. But he always had this like fear because of what he went through. You know, like in the from the hostage crisis onwards, he was, lived in a little bit of fear and tried to really fit in.
Leyla: That's so interesting. So what was your experience the past few years? Like what the, Like what the, Mahsa Amini and the Woman, Life, Freedom movement. How has been your experience of that? Has that kind of made you feel anything?
Jasmin: Oh, yeah. For sure. We actually were shooting Motherland during the Woman, Life, Freedom.
Leyla: Oh, wow.
Jasmin: Yeah. And it was, so it was very, because there's a lot of, you know, Iranian people on set. And we were feeling it really deeply. Not that the film has really anything to do with that, per se, because it doesn't take place in Iran. But we, you know, we were all going to the marches and Toronto had a humongous, sort of march for Mahsa, and for Women, Life, Freedom in the, in the fall of 2022. So we were all going to that and, you know, like, just been like following all like the leaders in the Iranian community and just like, you know, I, I that's when I really was like, I hadn't met Arian Moayed at that time, but I, I was following what he was sort of doing in a platform that I'd never seen before. Iranians do before in Hollywood. So I was like, that's he eventually came on as a EP to Motherland. But that was when, like I was like, wow, there's there's, this is reaching beyond just the Iranian community. But yeah, we, that affected us greatly and we were all following it here. And also people from Iran, women from Iran were messaging me on Instagram.
Leyla: Wow. Wow. Yeah. So that's that's another question I have is like, how is your relationship with the Iranian community now, like with the diaspora?
Jasmin: It's grown tremendously, you know.
Leyla: Amazing.
Jasmin: And always a a wish I always had I felt I feel I feel like I've come home in a way, I guess in a way I hadn't felt for most of my life. And that's, that is like all of a sudden I feel there's like this sense of peace now. It's like, oh, I found my people more. It's a lot of people in, in Canada, in the US, but also some people from Iran, if they're able to message me, you know, they will, especially like women being like, yeah, I want you to know what's happening here, not to make a movie out of it. Just so I, almost I think so I can repost it. And, yeah, I, I'm, I feel very like I, I take that seriously.
Leyla: That's really cool. I feel like it feels like the Woman, Life, Freedom movement has been kind of an anti or the opposite of like a 9/11 or something where, you know, those kind of events, everyone kind of went in their shells and maybe tried to like assimilate more and like were quieter. But then this all of a sudden like awakened something in the diaspora where everybody was like, oh my goodness, okay. This is a part of me like, I want to be more a part of it. And it made there's been a lot of issues, obviously, in the Iranian diaspora, and we're continuing to see that. But, but for a lot of us, I feel like it's brought us closer together and like, encourage this kind of art, like you're making really, really makes people feel seen. You know, I feel like your film, all the comments that I see are people being like, wow, this is the story of my family. Thank you for making this.
Jasmin: Yeah, it's it's interesting because people are showing it to their parents or to their, you know, their extended family, and it's bringing up a lot of emotions for, for that generation. I think that they I think that there's just this sort of sometimes this trend of burying the trauma, right, that as you probably are aware of, especially in the community. And, I think it's like the younger generation that's starting to like say, hey, let's talk about this. Maybe let's like, let's like, let's like actually, because I think, like, you know, there's like this feeling. I don't know if it's like part of tārof or whatever it is. It's just like this, like, let's just make everybody feel comfortable. And make every, you know, Americans, like, we just, we're here. We're in America. America is an amazing country. Canada is an amazing country. Look what it did for me. Let's just be, not let's not inflame anything where I think and the younger generations, like, no, let's talk about this. So for them, it's like, I think they feel like they're being seen maybe in a different way. And, it's a lot of memories that they've buried now are coming to the surface and through watching it, which is really I couldn't have never imagined that. But it's amazing.
Leyla: Yeah, yeah. So what are you working on now? What's your you're you're deep in Motherland world right now, right, showing the film and.
Jasmin: Yeah.
Leyla: And where, where can people watch it? How long is it going to be available to watch?
Jasmin: I think it'll be available for another few weeks on Vimeo. Until the middle of January. So. And then after that, we'll see. We'll try to probably get some distribution. I'm not sure where yet. We were doing, like, an Oscar campaign for the longest time, but we were not shortlisted. So that's.
Leyla: Oh. I'm sorry.
Jasmin: Yeah, it sucks, but.
Leyla: Injustice. Yeah.
Jasmin: Yeah. Well, you know what came through that was meeting and working with Arian and and meeting so many people in the, in the community, especially other Iranian actors and creatives. So, yes, it's online for a few more weeks and then we'll see what happens. I, we have a Motherland page on Instagram where all the updates are.
Leyla: We'll link to all of that on the show notes. Yeah. Of course.
Jasmin: Yeah. And and then I'm working on another my second feature, which is, you know, very early in its, evolution, but it will also be about Iranian Americans, but it'll be a different genre, like a horror genre. So.
Leyla: Oh, wow. Awesome.
Jasmin: Yeah.
Leyla: Well very excited. And then where do people go to find out what you're doing? Where's the best place to see your updates?
Jasmin: I think on either my Instagram, which is my name. Basically, if you search my name on Instagram or my website, jasminmozaffari.com, that's probably the best way to see what I'm doing.
Leyla: Oh well, I can't wait to see see the future of what you do. This is a great indication of, what's to come, I think.
Jasmin: Thank you, Leyla.
Leyla: And congratulations on all the, I mean, I'm seeing it all over the place. It seems like it's being very well received and more people should watch it. So go watch it immediately.
Jasmin: Thank you, Leyla jan.
Leyla: Yeah, is there anything else that you want to talk about or mention or that we haven't covered?
Jasmin: No. I think like this was such a wonderful conversation. And, I think thank you for giving people the platform to talk about their upbringing, their Iranian identity. I think it's really, really important to them.
Leyla: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Jasmin jān.
Jasmin: Thank you, Leyla jān.