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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Berry takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in two of the most punishing sports, Paul and Corey share their stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
This is the Head Rush Podcast with Paul Fraze and Corey Barry.
Welcome to the Head Rush Podcast. I'm Paul Fraze, and I played 11 years in the NFL, and our co-host, Corey Barry, rode professional rodeo for nine years.
And at the Head Rush Podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma and brain health and wellness. We focus on traumatic brain injuries sustained through repeated head impacts, RHIs, and rep- repeated blast exposures for our men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. We talk about traumatic encephalopathy syndrome and chronic traumatic encephalopathy, and we cover how traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues such as depression, addiction, lack of executive function, memory loss, even suicide ideation, as well as degenerative neurological issues. Our mantra is how to cope and find hope, and we focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through education and by ra- raising awareness. Corey, how are you doing?
I'm doing pretty good. A little hot in the she-shed this morn- this evening, so
other than that-
Good
... we're doing good, especially with all these bright lights shining down on me, making me look like a superstar. Thank you, Red Bird Media, by the way.
Hey, uh, before we get to talking about today's event, I'd like to introduce a guest. Here. We have a guest with us today. You can see him on camera, the pretty bearded boy from Nevada, Rico Petrini. Rico Petrini was from California, I believe, and then you went to Oregon, right? And played for the Beavers.
Correct, yeah.
Give us a little bit of your bio while we're here since we didn't have one prepped for you.
Well, since it'll be coming up on today's topic, I, uh, s- high school at Serra High School where Tom Brady actually played football and from there, uh, went up to Oregon State, was a four-year starter there at inside linebacker, and, uh,
had a tryout with the 49ers, uh, but failed the physical due to a knee I didn't know was bad and, of course, my 25-plus concussion history. So, um, know a little bit about concussions and happy to be on the show. Thanks for the invite.
Rico, tell, tell us about... I mean, you, you were like a...
I'm from New Hampshire. I barely got recruited, and I believe you were, like, a top recruited e- even out of high school. Is that true? What is it, like, a blue or a, a blue chip or something like that?
Yeah, at that time they didn't have five stars, but they had what they called the blue chip, and it was a basically a f- four star I think was the highest at that time. Um, and I think I was ranked number three in the nation at linebacker. Uh-
Wow
... number one was Dwa- Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Uh, which is pretty funny. Uh, he was out of Florida at the time, so, um, good company. Willie McGinest was another one that was up there. So, um, I, I think I got recruited by 100, over 100 schools, 106, something like that between-
Wow
... division one through three all together. Yeah, so, um, it was a pretty fun time. I d- really, uh, really enjoyed it. Went to Oregon State 'cause they told me I was gonna get to start for four years, which I was pretty excited about, but, uh, yeah, it took a lot of wear and tear on me.
Hey, Paul.
Exactly.
You know the difference is in California there's a lot more players than New Hampshire.
Yeah.
So people pay more attention to the good players out there because-
... they're not on six-man football teams.
Hey, I, I, I, I made, uh, All-State in basketball and football. That, that was pretty impressive.
Well, how many players,
how many players-
We only had 100... The whole, the whole state only had, like, 100,000 people in it that ba- No, it was like, literally, it was like a million when I was growing up.
You-
A million people in the entire state
You know what, though? You're, you're, you're top 1% of 1% 'cause you made the NFL. And you not only made it, you, uh, you also went well beyond the average career length, so yeah, you're-
Well-
... you're staying humble, but you, you've had a pretty good run yourself.
Well, I, I-
I, I definitely appreciate that, but the-
Yeah, 11
years in the NFL, Super Bowl,
and NFC champion. I mean, yeah, I would say you had a pretty well darn career. You, you know, do you know what the thing that I'm, I guess, most proud about? Um, w- do you remember back in the, uh, the centennial, you know, year, year 2000 they had all of those, um, teams. They came out with, uh, 50 from each state for the-
Yeah
... past 100 years, the centennial team. I actually made it for the state of f- uh, uh, New Hampshire. That was pretty cool.
That's awesome.
So you could, you could understand there, there's not a lot of, uh... Anyway, uh, we, we had, uh-
Yeah, but the 50th on that team-
Yeah
... was probably some bookworm that sold water bottles.
Yikes.
Because it's New Hampshire. No.
That's right. Hey, when I got to Syracuse everybody was saying, "Oh, did you come in horse and buggy?" And, uh, you know, "Do you have outhouses there for your, for your, uh, family latrines?" Gosh, whatever.
Well-
That's us.
You know what?
No res-
I give you-
No respect, and you're still not getting any respect with Corey around
Exactly. Exactly.
I-
Exactly.
You know, I was talking with Clint here a little while ago, and we were talking about the elites and the difference of points. And I gotta say, Paul, you had to be one of the 1% of the 10% to make the longevity that you did, to make the Super Bowl that you did, to have the years that you had behind you and the career that you've had. I mean,
you, you were probably one of the top 10% in the NFL as far as longevity, career, accomplishments, the Edward Brock Award twice. You know, I mean, you've got a lot of accomplishments-
Well-
... in your pro career.
Well,
I, I appreciate that. Uh, Rico, doesn't he sound a lot smarter since he's been doing the red light therapy?
It- it- it's gotta be the red light
... if we had...
If we ha- we, we have-
Go to V-
We have video footage.
Go to vlight.com.
We have visual evidence of that.
You know-
Vlight.com
... his vocabulary. He's even using,
uh, he's even using-
Use the code-
... two syllables in his sentences now, the words. It's pretty impressive.
Go to vlight.com.
That's right.
Use our code, capital HEADRUSHVL, and get your discount at vlight.com and get your red light therapy going in your-
No
... photobiomodulation, internasal.
Intranasal PBM.
And I just found something out I've been doing wrong.
What?
I was putting it on the side here, the internasal.
Yeah.
On the side. Well, I was doing some reading on V Light, some more reading just because I can, and I was doing it today, so I actually remembered
it has to go past the bone. You have to stick it up far enough to where the dome is above the bone.
Oh.
Is that, is that to-
Yeah
... penetrate the, the brain barrier, basically?
Yeah.
And I was like, "Oh, I wonder if I've been doing that." So like this m- like when I did it this morning, I was making s- man, I was pushing it way up there and making sure that I was up there. It was like, "Okay, I need to do that."
Well, more impressive than how far you can stick that up your nose is- ... what you told me earlier about, uh, you actually had a night of sleep last night where you weren't thrashing and kicking, uh, which-
No, my-
... I'm sure your wife appreciates.
Yeah. The wife said I did not move last night, and that's gotta be the first time in, well, 27 years.
Wow. That's impressive.
Awesome.
So back towards the episode. Go to vlight.com, plug
code HEADRUSHVL, plug, to get your discount. Also, like, share, comment, subscribe, review, do all the fun stuff. On another sad event that took place recently amongst the retired NFL players, in California, Aldon Smith died while he was with a couple of his former teammates. There's definitely an investigation going on due to some sketchy information and reports, and there is no cause of death currently. But what I really wanna talk about is a comment that was made by a familiar sports talk host and worthless piece of beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,
Jason Whitlock, and he can go to Fearless. He, he, he's got... I guess his podcast is called Fearless. Well, he's a- actually gotta be scared because he did not show up today for the Head Rush podcast because he don't wanna talk about this. And Rico, I wanna take it to you right off the get-go on this one. This is gonna be a short excerpt that I just wanna do because of Jason Whitlock
and Tom Brady and all the sh-
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John, if you just said you went to h- the same high school as Tom Brady.
Yeah. I mean, it... That, that... Unfortunately, Tom has kinda jumped on the same bandwagon with, uh, Mr. Whitlock and is saying that the protections for CTE or brain injury in the NFL right now and the changes with hitting and so forth is really softening things up, uh, to paraphrase what he said, and that it's probably not necessary. And then Mr. Whitlock also just saying that it's a lo- you know, CTE is a load of garbage basically. And, you know, um, the combo of those two is really striking to me, especially, you know, coming from Tom. You know, I, I didn't play directly with him. I was in... I was a senior when he was inbound to Serra High School. I did take him around and show him the school, 'cause he was one of our top recruits from the Catholic under schools to go to the high school, so I kinda showed him around campus. But, uh, you know, I was dating the coach's daughter, so I got a pretty good inside view of Tom as he went through high school and then on from there.
You know, he's a gritty player, he's a hard nose, he's old school. I think he, in his mind, thinks that he is trying to keep the game back to the old romanticized, you know, beat, beat the snot out of each other. But, you know, saying things like that, uh, is really irresponsible, especially in light of, you look at what Tom has seen himself. Um, you know, if you guys remember when Antonio Brown short-circuited and ended up get- picked up by Tampa, Tom, in order to kinda try to keep Antonio straight, uh, had him living with him and Gisele, and I am most certain Tom got his share of CTE experience, uh, during that time when he was living with them, to know that this is very real and it causes changes in mood, behavior, et cetera, in addition to him being a teammate. Um, but, you know, that, that was one of the things that really stuck out with me, was, was that, and then also the fact that one of the most prolific CTE cases early on was Aaron Hernandez. You know? And this is one of-
Hmm
... Tom's top targets, and again, somebody that he confided in and saw every day, and definitely was, uh, in tune with what was going on with that whole situation, what was going down with his personal health. So I, I, I feel like that was probably not a good decision on his part to step out and do this. But being that he's an owner,
uh, now, and a broadcaster, and you know, you kinda, kinda keep your P's and Q's in line with the NFL and what Mr. Goodell wants, uh, said, I, I think that probably has something to do with it, 'cause I can't see any other reason as to why.
I kinda, I kinda liken it to, uh, what... I, I kinda, th- I, I've been through an evolution of, okay, uh, you know, it's not good to hit your head. Uh, but, a- a- I was sitting with Chris Nowinski in the owner's box in the Jaguar's, uh, game, and I said, "Chris, I, I chose to play this game. I know it was not healthy to hit my head h- again, and again, and again against a 300-pound guy," but Ch- and, and Chris said, "Hey, what about the seven-year-old kids that's, uh, whose brains are not e- even developed?" So that's where I see the total irresponsibility of a statement like that. Keep it tough, keep it mean, keep it gritty. Okay, for adults, not for kids. I mean-
Yes
... flag football until 18 now, I, I, I, it, or, or the, the ca- and the educating the parents about the brain is key, and then, then when they're educated, they're fully culpable for the mental health of their child, uh, if they strap 'em, strap a helmet on it, them at seven years old. That, that's kinda, I've, I'm, I've gone full, full circle through that. Um-
Yeah
... but yeah, I mean, Tom's not thinking about the seven-year-olds.
No.
He has-
And I-
He has two boy- he has two boys, I believe, maybe three. I, I lost count, but you know, he should be thinking about that, and he should be thinking about-
I bet they're quarterbacks
... he should be thinking about everybody else's sons too, because he is-
You're right
... one of the most prominent names in the NFL and, and in football in general. And you're right, I mean, parents are gonna trust what he says, you know? And they're gonna follow his lead with how to approach this new territory. And, you know, he could be
somebody that helps us create some safety instead of somebody that sets us back and creates more obstacles for us to have to work through to protect kids and protect players in general. So yeah, I, I, I, I'm pretty disappointed, uh, even though he's a, a fellow Padre, and somebody that I personally respect for his game and, and other aspects of his life, but that, this is, this is not something that, uh,
was a good decision, uh, on his part-
No
... unfortunately.
Well, and I ser- you know, I got to give him a little bit of leniency, not very damn much,
but a little bit because he is still connected to the NFL. He is still an NFL commentator. He's still getting paid
the money by the NFL in everything he's doing. So we all know about greed and money and what it does to people, and maybe that's his CTE thing is money's more important than truth and honesty.
Yeah.
You know? And now we move on, and I, we only brought this up because Tom Brady decided he wanted to do an article about it, so we talked about it.
And now, on June 16th, as you guys have seen on our podcast and on our Facebook and Instagram, I called out Jason Whitlock and invited him onto this podcast today.
He came on June 16th on X and said, "CTE is a joke. Aldon Smith drank and drugged most of his life. Troubled kid with a troubled past, but let's blame football. CTE is a crock."
Now-
So-
... you've all heard me talk about it and what I say. I wanna get Paul, your take on it, and then Rico's take on that comment alone, because I also talked to Brandi Winans, and I guess when Jason Whitlock was with ESPN or whoever back in the day, he talked a lot of trash about Jeff. And so a guy like this, I tell you what, I would like to have a CTE rage alongside his head one day.
You, y- y- so it makes me think, you know, I saw, I saw this sta- statement and I'm like, you know,
out of context th- this guy's a-
He's not, he's not looking at the science. He's not educated on CTE. He has not looked at, at the, uh, scientific papers and the peer-reviewed papers, and the fact that CTE is, uh, caused by repeated head impact. So, huh, m- moron. I mean, i- I mean, ignorant. But then you go to see what happened. Corey, give, give the, um,
s- some of the surrounding, uh, events of Aldon Smith's death. And Aldon, Aldon did have a,
I guess, a troubled life w- when it comes to drinking and, and, and, and drugging.
Well, I think Rico could probably talk about Aldon even a little bit better than I can.
Yeah. You know, like I said, I grew up in the Bay Area, and, uh, I've been a 49er fan since I was born, basically. My dad, my dad had tickets, went to all the Super Bowls, followed the team. My dream was obviously to play for them, so getting a tryout was, you know, a, a lifetime, you know, fantasy for me to even step out on the field for one day. But, um, with Aldon, you know, he was an incredible player, incredible talent. Um, he took a lot of hits, and we know those, those linemen in particular, they do get every single down, they're getting head-on-head contact just by the way they're positioned, you know? And, you know, we, we've talked about the brain slosh and the prefrontal cortex damage and what happens with that, and it's no surprise, you know, when, when guys have addiction issues, you know,
GABA... Okay, when you have a amygdala hijack, right, when you have that fight or flight response, the only thing that br- is a, is a break for the brain is GABA, and your body makes it, but when you've got a damaged brain it doesn't make enough of it, so you get out of control, right? But the only thing that you can do to also get more GABA into your body is fermented foods and alcohol, okay? So what... You know, we keep seeing this correlation with players, uh, that are alcoholics and veterans that are alcoholics, and I'm not saying that's the sole, um, variable in alcoholism or drinking or necessarily, I mean, there's genetics, there's a host of other things, but I would certainly argue that with this many hits and with this much potential damage, when you get into that fight or flight, which we have all experienced,
right? I mean,
the, the only way to get out of that is, a- and to get some sort of soothing, I mean, I, I had some drinking. I wouldn't say I was at an alcohol level, but I certainly, when I was getting ramped up and having ex- you know, light and sound sensitivity issues and crowd issues, it definitely helped take the edge off because it's gonna, it, it binds to those GABA receptors and shuts down that fight or flight response. So that's one side to it, and I've talked to a, a multitude of players. I mean, I've, I've probably spoken to over 50 NFL players that ha- have suspected CTE or, or in their families, and a common theme is with the head pressure in particular and the head pain, uh, cocaine and other drugs like that, opiates, also help with that inflammation and also with the, the pain sen- the sensory pain that they have in their head. And I knew of a couple guys that had never touched a drug before they started having CTE issues, and they were actually using it to try to numb those sensations and the pressures that they were having with their, with their head. So, you know, whi- which, the chicken or the egg argument here, was he an alcoholic before this or did he become an alcoholic and drug user because of, of his contact? And I, you know, I'm not making excuses, but I think it has to be considered when you try to do an assessment of a guy's life rather than, you know... The NFL, frankly, back, I remember in the t- early 2020s, you know, the NFL is 73% Black, and it, you know, when guys were getting arrested and having issues that probably were, could have been potentially CTE or neuro-related issues, there was a, a, a racial bias that, oh, they came from a bad background, or they grew up in a tough neighborhood, and they were trying to suggest that that might be the culprit or the cause of what was actually, you know, what could have been the mood and behavioral changes from the brain contact, you know? And, you know, guys getting called thugs because they, you know, suddenly after a, a career and maybe a pre-career where they had no criminal engagement or contact, they play for 5 or 10 years and now suddenly they're having trouble with the law and they're having these changes in domestic violence and all these other things that suddenly just pop up that were never in their history. We gotta look a little deeper instead of just taking the, the broad brush and saying they had a bad childhood or they grew up in a rough neighborhood or, you know, the racial profiling that was done in the past. Even the NFL concussion suit had racial bias in it, uh, when talking about the, uh, the IQ of, of the, the athletes. So there's, there's a lot. It gets really messy, and when it gets that messy you start following the money and you start to get a little clearer picture. So, you know, I, I think in this case
there's a lot of push both in the VA and also with the NFL to try to find a way to make this the individual acting out or the individual having an issue versus it being a broader brain damage issue that causes these-
Certain symptoms that we see time and time again that are prevalent that are causing the same types of destructions in family and causing bad decisions, et cetera. So that, that's what, that's what I think. I think with Aldon, thankfully, his family has elected to donate his brain to Boston University, and we're gonna get those answers fast. And Mr. Whitlock is gonna be, I, I bet everything I have right now that Mr. Whitlock's gonna be eating crow, that Aldon is probably stage three or stage four, you know, like an Aaron Hernandez type situation. And it'll be interesting to see that unfold, you know, in the months to come.
Well, that's, that's, that's-
Well-
... kinda, I, I, I was thinking of through his statement, and it's, it's ignorant. If, if he knows about CTE, it's, it's negligent. Um, you know, we, we can say, you know, okay, Aldon Smith drank and drugged. Okay? Um, which came first, the repeated head impacts or his ad- addictive personality? I mean, y- y- it's almost like we can say, and you already mentioned Aaron Hernandez from the, from the New Eng- New Eng- New England Patriots, what a story that was, and that unraveled to be. But we could say, okay, he had sociopathic tendencies, his, his whole life because he was abused. Um, CTE had nothing to do with it, it's a crock. Well,
he, he, he hung himself-
How about, how about the Al- how about the Aldon Smith that actually when he passed away was delivering, uh, food to the homeless ?
Right.
You know?
Right. Mm-hmm.
Can we, can we make sure we get some balance to his life that we don't just immediately try to pinpoint something else that may-
Right
... have been related to causation from his brain injury, and just say, and try to paint him as a bad person. Watching him play football and seeing him with the 49ers, he was a, a very active in the community. And, you know, yeah, he had his run-ins, but, you know, I, I think those that played with him had a lot of really great things to say about him as a person and his character. So I, I, you know,
I, I hate guys-
Well, and that truck-
I hate when guys get painted, uh, a certain way after death when they can't defend themselves, you know? And, and in a situation like this, it's, it's, that's not right.
I mean, and that's what we really wanna talk about a lot on this show, is you also look at it,
the guy just got done delivering pizzas to the homeless.
Do you think Jason Whitlock's ever delivered a pizza to the homeless to begin with?
And then he comes back, and when EMS comes, they put him in front of the car.
So it wasn't that he was on a drunken stupor or overdosing or all of this, he was delivering freaking pizzas to the homeless. And for you to come out and just say what you said about a man that did a lot of good for the Bay Area, I think,
had a lot of accomplishments with the 49ers. And yes, he had issues, but you know what? There's a lot of NFL players with a lot of issues that get pulled over by police, or domestic abuse, or... And that's a whole nother topic we could go on. Is it the money? Is it entitlement? Is it what? I don't even wanna get on that subject.
Yeah. I mean, we have-
But-
We have Do- we have, we have Doug Martin in Oakland, the incident that he had in Oakland, and that one's still unfolding. And, and the same situation, his brain has been donated, and we're gonna probably hear about-
Mm-hmm
... uh, his CTE results as well. But, you know, this, this is, this is far too common
and too high of a percentage of criminal behavior to just say that every guy that goes into the NFL, you know, is a bad dude, you know? Or to place it on them. I mean, there's obviously some transformation or something that's happened or something that is helping at least exasperate,
you know, things and make it, you know, make these mood ma- you know, mood, behavior, cognitive, the apathy, the impulsivity, the addiction that we all know that comes from prefrontal cortex damage. These are the things that are being expressed, and they're being expressed in a very high, irregular number with our pro sports athletes that are in contact sports. So we have to... And it goes for MMA, too. We just had another MMA fighter get in trouble because of an incident in the airport. Same thing, uh, alcohol and threatening to beat up the flight crew and, you know, things like that that,
you know, are just not a normal response. So you have to look at that and go, this is completely irrational. There is definitely something else that is triggering this here. But,
um, Mr. Whitlock, back to him, I think the last thing I would say about that is, you know, uh, another guy that he worked with over there was Ray Lewis, and I'd like to hear him have a nice one-on-one with Ray Lewis, not only about what probably Ray Lewis experiences, but the fact that Ray Lewis lost his son to CTE, and see if CTE is a crock to Mr. Lewis. 'Cause I, I think his fists would have something to say about that. But, um, you know,
a- a- again, these guys have the direct connections, they have the direct exposure. They know what's happening. So when they say things like this, they're either doing it to get likes or to get their name out there in the media and get some controversy started, or they're trying to make, uh, uh, appease their masters, you know, and stay the party line. 'Cause they know too much to play, to be this stupid, unless he truly is that stupid. I don't know the guy that personally, but to say that-
Have you ever met him, Paul?
No, no. But, uh, I mean, the, the, the, well, the, the way I kinda broke it down is he, he's not a doctor. We, we tell every- everybody, "We're not doctors. We're not physicians. Go see your t- physician. W- uh, interview your physicians first." Corey is- Great at that. Ma- making sure that the neurologist actually has repeated head impacts or, or traumatic brain injury in their repertoire, and they actually consider what can happen to brain health and wellness or brain damage, or what brain damage will cause and can cause to your mental health. But, uh, so he's not a doctor. He's not a, I don't- he's not a PhD, he's not a researcher,
and I don't know how much he's, he's studied CTE, right? So, so the causes of CTE and the symptoms that accompany RHI, the apathy, the addictive personality, the rage, the unbridled rage, so on and so forth, the, the memory loss, the, the, uh, executive, the li- lack of executive function, on and on and on. So he has less evidence to stand on his ignorant statement than Aldon's family but when it become, uh, when it comes to CTE because, yes, Aldon, who knows what was involved with his death. He, drinking, drugging, whatever it was, but the fact of the matter is the, the, the family when it comes to CTE and the cause of his death and what effects CTE, um, will have on a person has every right in the world to say, "We're sending our son's brain to, uh, a known institution worldwide to find out if our son suffered from CTE, and maybe we can figure out why some of these personality traits surfaced in Al- in Aldon's life or why he struggled so bad with them." Because, yes, alcoholism is real, but you don't have to have CTE to be an alcoholic, um, or, or have an addictive, uh, personality. But, uh-
When, when, when we, when we, when we do address CTE the way it's happening, where every time a guy has an incident with the police or, you know, this, you know, th- they have a, a bad past or whatever, and we try to make that as the primary focus is he was just a bad person,
what we're really doing is we're putting much, m- many more guys in the closet, and-
Right
... we're making them go, "If you talk about this,
this is what's gonna come out." They're gonna say-
Right
... "You're a sex and porn addict." They're gonna say, "You're a drug addict." They're gonna say you're, you know, "You're a spousal abuser."
Yeah.
They're gonna-
Yeah
... they're gonna find that thing how your, unfortunately, your condition manifested, and they're gonna exploit that. And what we need to do is look at an Aldon Smith situation and go, "You know what? We don't know what happened right now, but I think it's for all of our good, we have a great university that wants to get down to the bottom of this. Let's check his brain out, and let's make these guys understand that, you know,
this is okay. This is something that happened to you. It's not you. It's not your core essence. It's not your being, right? And let's develop programs that make it open and supportive for ex-players, and even current players, that they have that confidentiality, that they can go and share that they're having dark thoughts, that they're, you know, um, struggling and not have to worry about if they're gonna get cut or have to worry about if it's gonna go public or that they're gonna be shamed about, you know, something that's a neurological response." These are all things that are happening because of the damage to that part of their brain, you know? And, and we, we can all say that because we experienced it. Thankfully, I, I'm in a much better place than I was but five years ago, you know, I, everything that happened I think I could look at and say, "That could've been me."
Honestly.
Mm-hmm.
I was impulsive. I made reckless decisions. I had the apathy. I didn't care. I... You know? And that's not part of my character of who I am. That's the chemical signaling and the damage that was done.
And as I've gotten better with treatments, I don't have those feelings anymore, so that reinforces that this is in fact causation from the brain injury versus me just being a bad guy from a bad upbringing, from a, a, or a druggie or all of these other, uh, uh, labels that we wanna put on these guys, you know?
Mm.
We need to take a hard look at th- this biological process and what is really happening to these guys. That's where the focus needs to be.
Well, that, that-
Well, let's look at Paulie. Let's look at Paulie, Mr. Paulie Frase, Paul Frase. 11 years NFL. Born and raised in New Hampshire. You wanna talk about a white picket fence? His father was a pastor.
What was your mother?
She was an English teacher, but she was a-
And he-
She, she was a housewife. She raised four hooligans. Well, my sister was not a hooligan, but my three brothers and I, my two brothers and I were.
I was the third l-
So you're look-
Go ahead.
So you're looking at the perfect freaking, not Leave It to Beaver. Who was it back in the '60s that had the perfect family on TV?
That was The Brady Bunch or the Leave It to Beaver or what? I don't, what- whatever.
California was Brady Bunch, and Leave It to Beaver was North Carolina.
The Andy, The Andy Griffin Show, or Leave It to Beaver. Yeah.
Andy Griffin Show is what I'm thinking of. You wanna talk about the perfect Andy Griffin Show? It was Paul Frase. So Paul Frase plays football and basketball in high school. He goes on to Syracuse, plays football in Syracuse, gets drafted by the Jets, and has a great NFL career.
Paul,
when did you start having a drinking problem? Were you a drunk in high school?
I drank in high school on weekends.
Um-
Were you... Did you have a drinking problem in high school?
I didn't have a problem, no.
I drank and I got drunk. Like, does I... Is that a problem?
We'll, we'll call him an opportunist.
An opportunist.
Okay.
When did you... You got married when you were playing with the Jets.
Well-
Did you have an alcohol problem when you said, "I do"?
Uh, no, because I had had... I had quit for 18 months. I definitely had an al- alcohol problem in college, and, uh, my fir- my second year in the NFL, m- my roommate... I had a, I had a, an unbelievably
ridiculous unbridled rage moment standing in a bar in New York City. It was packed, and this kid that was smoking a cigarette, back when you were can smoke cigarettes in a bar, and he walked past me, and he... his cigarette butt, uh, burned my, my shirt. And I just went ballistic, and I was yelling at... I mean, just jugular. It, like, it was a, it was a CTE moment which, uh, I definitely experienced at 47 years old. I didn't know what it was when I had it back then.
But my buddy actually, uh, uh, my buddy, uh, came to me and he says, "Paul, uh, I don't know what's going on, but the alcohol is changing you." And I actually quit, quit for 18, maybe 20, 24 months.
And, uh-
How-
Yeah.
How long you been sober now?
Uh, eight years. But that was, that was a miracle. That was a white light miracle. Standing in a man pl-
So when-
Yeah, go ahead.
So when Paul Perrault dies,
and we send his brain to Boston University, Jason Whitlock's gonna go, "Well, Paul Perrault, he was a drunk, and he did all this.
CTE is a joke."
Yeah.
He came from a freaking picture perfect, freaking Leave It to Beaver, Andy Griffin lifestyle in New Hampshire-
Yeah
... to this. So that's where I go back with this Jason Whitlock, and we can keep going on and on. I don't wanna make this guy as famous as he thinks he is, by no means. But that's where you're right, Rico, 100%. You look at me. Yes, I had a broken home. Yes, I did a lot of stupid stuff.
But alcohol was a little bit part of it, maybe a CTE moment, but not knowing what it was.
But you look at it, instead of calling people out for what they did wrong, like I just called out Paul, he was a drunk.
How about look at his whole life and what Paul has done? And after Paul...
Paul, have you ever delivered pizza to the homeless?
Oh, I've, I've del- delivered turkeys to the homeless, or to people that, uh, needed a Thanksgiving dinner.
There you go.
Just like Alden Smith, instead of pizzas, you delivered turkeys.
You know, we need to look at the individuals. Yes, we all have... I know for a fact that I've always had that
brutality in me, the fight in me. I was always very aggressive. I was always very, you know,
um,
that way.
Speaking for myself-
Yeah
... I mean, I had,
you know, like I said, I... In 2021 is when everything kind of manifested for me, and the mood and behavioral changes, and the explosive anger, and all of the other things that came with that. And yet, if you went back and looked at my life, my parents have been married 54 years. I went to a Catholic high school, was raised in a spiritual home. I never even had a tardy in high school. You know? Uh, even in college, never got into trouble. You know, these things
di- these types of behavioral changes did not exist. I was never depressed. I was never explosive anger. You know? I was a happy-go-lucky guy. I like to make people laugh. I'm not that person that the injury made me become. And, like, when you were telling your story, Paul, about the, the explosive incident, what I found interesting is that the key thing you still remember from that day is that it was a really overly packed bar. And I know-
Mm
... from my experience,
whenever I would go out in public,
uh, you know, I used to attribute it to be I'm an Italian, I have to face the door, right? But no, I always had to really pick where I sat because I would get triggered from all the noise in really loud restaurants, and I could feel myself, like, my clenching and, you know, I could feel my neck popping. And it was a, it was a pre- like, a precursor to an episode. The light, and sound, and the crowd, those are all triggers to that amygdala hijack. So you had one of those episodes right there, you know, which to your friends lighting a cigarette butt was probably not the thing. And the alcohol probably you were trying to probably calm yourself, because when you went out in public, it was probably really hard for you to be in a packed college or crowd setting-
Mm
... and not feel triggered. So the alcohol was your brain trying to find what it needed to put the brakes on to the amygdala hijack, right? But a little incident like a-
Yeah
... little cigarette butt in a crowded place that you're already triggered, and it- escalated fast, and I get that 100%. And if you talk to anybody that has dealt with this injury, their families, they're gonna tell you, "Oh, yeah, I could name
50 episodes like that, or incidents where we saw a change in Dad because of his surroundings, or the environment-
Right
... or things that triggered a response in him."
I just got an aha moment from Rico. Another aha.
All this ju-
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by our personal doctor and team of doctors, uh, Dr. Miz- Mizell DeMayo, and she's with the Paradise Behavioral Health, and we are in the Brain Well program, which is also part of the Millennium Health Center. Uh, Dr. Mark Gordon, you've seen him on Joe Rogan, and even on our show, the Head Rush podcast. Um,
and, uh, hormones, and Mizell is awesome. We love her.
She's, she's our doctor of psychiatry. She works the Mark Gordon program with the hormones, and, uh, and she j- she adds her twist of genetics, and, um, and it's, it's, it basically is melding two wonderful, uh, uh, mediums together, and we're getting great help from Dr. Mizell DeMayo.
So please check out her website at paradisebehavioral.com.
She's-
Look up the Brain Well program. Get involved. Be-
She's sponsoring us. They're, they're sponsoring us for the next year, so we are excited to, to have them on board, and, uh, and, and shout the new- the good news to everybody, uh, th- that is watching these broadcasts, so.
Is she helping you, Paul?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
She's helping me, so go check her out, paradisebehavioralhealth.com.
I've done
was in packed places.
I've always had to have my back to the door, still do today.
I always gotta know what my surroundings are. I never thought about
the fights I got in and everything at a younger age, like you just explained, and it all kinda makes sense.
You know? I mean,
I thought it was just me being a, not a bully, but a very proud, uh,
man that stood up for his values.
Huh.
Well, it's how we're trained and how we're built, so your response is gonna be to fight, right? When you're threatened.
Right.
That's how we had to handle it on the field, or, you know, tackling these massive animals we were riding on. I mean, it, the, you, you gotta have that kinda mindset. But the,
when your brain is perceiving you're being threatened, and you're really not threatened, that's where the problem happens because you're, you're having that same type of combative response in a context that doesn't warrant it, you know? And that's where the trouble starts now, and yeah.
I, I would-
I, I definitely feel you on that
... I wanna, uh, in, in a few minutes, I wanna get back to you, Rico, and how you ki- uh, came out of your funk, uh, uh, after, you know, how are you doing after five years of, uh, good solid therapy. But what, back, back to Whitlock, and, you know, basically Jason Whitlock, he, he, he was careless and ignorant in his comments, and the problem is that this, this is not the first time the media has tried to disgrace and shift blame in players' actions, and ultimately deaths surrounding the NFL in particular. Um, and you, you've met, uh, Brandi Winans. I don't know if you ever knew Jeff Winans. Uh, do you, you remember Brandi? Um, well, J- Jeff Winans was one, one of the first, uh, guys that was, uh, shortly diagnosed, uh, uh, after, uh, Mike Webster, you know, a few years after, I believe. But, um, th- so she's a dear friend of ours. She's actually on the board of the foundation, but she, uh, came under attack, um,
when she had Jeff's brain studied at Boston University, and it was before Ann McKee could definitively diagnose. She felt she was looking at CTE, but this was so early back in the day, and since, um, uh, she went back, um, and actually diagnosed Jeff Winans Stage 3 CTA, but she was maligned. Um, uh, she said there were s- several reporters, um, that, uh, uh, that just tore them apart, you know, about CTE, and, and, uh, you know, we've
basically, uh,
we know, uh, Merrill Hodge wrote, wrote a, a, a book, uh, and I think it's B- Brainwashed, and he said, he talks about a lot of the bad science of CTE. Well,
I, I, I don't think that they would still
put that in print, um, at this point. It would be interesting if they had a re- a re- remake, rewrite. And, uh, Dr. Paul Cummings, uh, uh, he was trying to make a name for himself. This, this is straight from, um, Jeff Winans' wife, uh, Brandi Winans, but she, she said he, he was trying to make a name for himself. They were, he was horrible to them, and, uh, he said Jeff didn't even have CTE. He claimed that Dr. Ann McKee didn't have the kind of credentials to make that diagnosis. And they, uh, they even degraded Jeff in the book. Really sad. Man.
And yeah, and here... And then, and yet the NFL, when they put together their, uh, CTE and concussion group, uh, what... The New- wasn't it the New York Giants', uh, doctor? Wasn't he like a-
Yes. That was my personal-
... respiratory specialist or... Yeah, he had-
He was my personal doctor, El Al
... but apparently he-
Really, really quick, before you, you finish that story, but really quick, he was my, my MD doctor at the New York J- Jets. Good guy, but he, they, they used him as a pawn, but go ahead.
Right. No, that's what I... That, to your point, I was just gonna say, he had no place being in that and leading that from-
There was not-
... his expertise, so
... there was not a neurologist on the, uh, the symposium, you know, the group that they had researched the effects of concussions, the long-term effects of concussions. And, and they had poor, uh, uh, Dr. Pellman, uh, standing up or on, on, on, you know, in court saying there's no repercussions, uh, long-term for, uh, multiple concussions
when the DOD had studied it back in the '40s, and pugilism and punch drunk, and they had plenty of, uh, research about repeated head impacts can and will cause mental health and, and, and brain damage. And that was... But that was, we all know that was... Gosh, what a cover-up. W- And they, and they still... I think the, the, the, the NFL was glad that the, uh, s- NFL, the, uh, settlement, the concussion settlement, uh, got, uh, uh, um, settled. Um, one, they were able to expunge CTE out of the, uh, compens- compensatory, uh, damage.
Right.
And two, they don't have to talk about it anymore. They get these young kids that are making $850,000, the, the minimum wage, and they get them, those young kids to sign on the dotted line,
you know?
I literally, I literally talked to an ex-player's wife today, and, you know, they, there's a lot of families that still haven't even been paid out.
Oh, no.
Uh, I, I, I know this guy is, I'm not gonna say anything 'cause I wanna protect his family and, and all of that. But, um, you know, a guy dealing with obvious Parkinson's, a very severe case, went to Boston U, was told...
They, they literally looked at him in hor- in horror and said he's one of the worst they've ever seen and a, a living example, uh, of this. And yet he has to play, his family has to play this game that they won't be paid on CTE. The NFL made it very clear, if you have a CTE diagnosis, you're excluded, so he has to either get dementia or Parkinson's. So if they go the dementia route, these neurologists are only ones that are approved by the NFL. Well, guess what the neurologists are doing? They're saying, "Oh, I think you just have amnesia," or, "You have this." And so, you know, only 3% of the cases are getting qualified on the first round, so they usually have to petition and go back. And we all know when you see Ann's work, who has looked at more brains and spent more of her life than anybody else, I'm sorry, I trust, uh, trust her above all else, and they're s- they're seeing a 93% prevalence of CTE in the brains that they're seeing. You can't tell me that there's only a 3%,
uh, group of NFL players with neurological issues, and yet that's initially the, the accepted claim rate with the NFL. And this is an individual who initially, you know, got biased because of what I was talking about earlier, that Black athletes were scored differently because it was believed that they were not, they didn't have the IQ of the white athletes, and this is straight-
Oh
... from the suit.
The... Oh my God.
And, and so they were being scored at a, at a, a, a much more challenging level that when they were having lower testing results, they were making an adjustment because of the perceived I- IQ levels that were lower, which is, in this day and age, that's just obscene to think that that was even, somebody f- even concocted something like that, that evil. But that shows you how much money is involved and what's at play here. And, you know, like th- this individual, he has, he has Parkinson's, so, you know, eventually he'll get paid on that. But look, this suit was 2017. It's 2025, and they still haven't received a check.
So I was part of the original-
They're hoping people die.
Yeah.
And that's it,
it... Yeah, go ahead.
Well, I'm sorry. I, I, I, I'm sorry I jumped in, but, um, I was part of the original PAC, the P- uh, Players' Advocacy Committee, and we actually sat with Seegers. We s- actually sat with, uh, through Zoom meetings with the special masters, Judge, uh, uh, the, who, uh, di- directly talked with, uh, Judge Brody. I, I jumped off it after a year and a half. It just, it just was not, we weren't moving the needle enough, and I, I, I wasn't happy with the direction it was going. But, um, a friend of mine is still on the, the PAC committee. Um, 160 claims went through in 2024, might have been in 2025.
100% got denied and got sent back through appeals.
This is, these are guys like the Parkinson's guy you were just explaining on, you know, doing all the paperwork, seeing all the doctors, and going, jump- jumping through all the hoops, and and, and they literally get sent back. They get denied, and they have to go through the whole process again.
And there were clearly people on, uh, of those 160, uh, players that deserved a payout of some sort because they were dealing with-
Right
... you know, dementia, ALS, uh, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, you name it, but not CTE. They'll never pay out in CTE.
You know, I hear from the public that, you know, "Well, these guys got paid well," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like almost implying like they knew the risk. They, you know, it's kinda on them now if they have to live with what... And I'm like, you know what? You would never say that about any other employee with an employer, you know? Like, if I was a forklift operator in a warehouse, and I got crushed by a pallet or something and had lifelong injuries, they wouldn't go, "Well, a normal warehouse guy gets 12 bucks an hour. You drove the forklift and get 25, so you kinda knew the extra risk, so you've been compensated for it," you know? It w- it would be, that would be insane. You would... You know, there would be a, "Let's get this guy the lifetime care that they need. Let's make sure that they have medical. Let's make sure that the parts of them that are damaged, that they cannot have a good quality of life for, that that's factored in in whatever award we give them." These guys are not getting any of those things. In fact, again, this individual doesn't even have medical with the NFL right now. They dropped him out of the medical plan. So-
Yeah
... you know, again, it, it's just... And I, and this is just one of many, many stories of families, and, and there's others. Uh, the NFL Wives Club is a great one to talk to, and hopefully we'll get them on Stephanie. Um, she, uh, she deals with a lot of these players directly. Her husband was on the Bears. You know, she, she sees this day in and day out, and the stories are heartbreaking. And, you know, like Aldon Smith, when I, uh, being a Niner fan, if you would've told me I could get an Aldon Smith jersey, there would've been, there wouldn't have been anybody happier at that time. That guy was a baller, and you would be proud to wear it. He was, you know... But, you know, now we demonize his name, and that's not fair to... I- if you would wear that guy's jersey, like Doug Martin, and you'd wear it with pride to go to his, one of his games, and you don't support his family or his legacy and believe that he was a good person off the field as well, you have the character issue, not that person.
Hmm.
Yeah. Well, you look at Brett Favre. Brett Favre has Parkinson's.
Right.
And he flat told us on the podcast that you get it two ways, genetics,
or three ways, genetics, food,
or repeated head impacts.
There's never been Parkinson's in his family,
and he eats pretty darn healthy, being a quarterback of his stature. So more than likely, he got Parkinson's from repeated head impact,
you know? And so you look at it, I just...
And then I look at other Cowboys that, you know, I've talked to. Well, hell, we just got done talking to Allen, who spars with, uh, sparred with Mike Tyson and all of them-
Mm-hmm
... back in New York. I mean,
this is a brain health issue. It's not a mental health issue. We all have genes in our life that could've made us go a different direction.
I think everybody does. Paul does. You do. I think all of us had a little aspect in our brain, as competitive as we were and are, I'm still pretty damn competitive,
um,
that could've made us go a different direction, but we chose not to.
Even with repeated head impacts, we chose not to. So people, I'm not gonna give everybody a free buy on CTE, like Aaron Hernandez and Chris Benoit and my buddy that killed himself and his wife. I'm not giving them free passage, because they chose to take that little why
that they didn't have to take.
But there's a certain level,
and I think back then you look at a lot of the people where CTE was the hidden gem, like what you said, and these professional athletes, the football players, and the wrestlers, and everybody that had it,
in them days
CTE was not even thought about. CTE wasn't even a topic of discussion, and it was hidden in the NFL locker rooms. It was hidden in the wrestling locker rooms. It was hidden everywhere, so they mirrored it with alcohol
and drugs,
and they mirrored it by doing other stuff to get the rage out or whatever. So that I give them their credit for, but I'm not gonna sit here and say, "If you got CTE, it's okay to kill somebody." Just like I'm not gonna tell Jason Wentloch that
he has a right not to speak his mind. He does. I welcome him on this podcast still today to come on and speak his mind, because our soldiers died for that right of him to have that freedom of speech,
but I also have a right... It's kinda like, what did someone say?
I had a friend, we had a discussion. What was it? Oh, burning the American flag.
Well, people got a right. Soldiers died for them to have the right to burn the American flag, and I said, "Yeah, and the same soldiers gave me a right to whip their fucking-"
This episode of the Head Rush podcast is brought to you by the Patrick Rischa CTE Awareness Foundation. Their goal is the, to spread awareness about the dangers of RHI, repetitive head impacts, after losing their son, Patrick, to CTE. Sadly, there are too many like Patrick that have lost their families, jobs, and sometimes their lives, and this foundation is working hard to stop the devastation than c- that can come from not protecting the brain. This foundation provides parents of school-aged children with information about the dangers of sports, concussive sports, and activities which involve head trauma. They advertise on social media, print media, and billboards. Please follow them on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and share their ads with others. And please visit their website, stopcte.org, to find ways to help people recognize the disease if confronted with it in their family, and how to prevent the suffering that can come to families when a brain is damaged. The website has medical forms to take to doctor's visits, and advocacy letters if you want to help make change in your community. And their most recent campaign is geared up to help coaches build brain healthy teams. You can use the information on stopcte.org website to understand CTE,
live with CTE, and prevent CTE. Please visit. Thank you. And don't knock it
D-
Stop C-
There you go
... stopcte.org.
If we, if we have, if we have time, um-
Yeah
... you made me think of a story because you said, you know, CTE doesn't make these people do this, or they can't be attrib- you know, it can't be the why of a murderer or so forth. Um, I'm gonna challenge that. Again, I'm not saying it's every case, but I can, I can give you another personal case that hopefully will make people think about this a little more. Um, I, uh, know of a guy, Justin Bannan, that played for the Broncos and was an incredible player for Colorado, that's sitting in a prison right now doing 18 years for, uh, uh, what they bo- what they s- uh, um, charged him with was first degree premeditated, uh, attempted mur- you know, a murder, uh, on an individual. And what had happened is he actually founded a company called, uh, Black Labs because he was having brain injuries. Uh, his brain injury was causing issues with him, and he was into supplements and things, so he was trying to find things to help people with CTE and brain injuries. So he was actively working on it knowing that he had an issue. He owned a building.
He...
What happened that set this up was his best friend that he played with was part of the NFL settlement as well, and ended up taking his life. And when they went to the house, they found the NFL settlement paper sitting on the table, so it literally triggered his best friend. And in that happening, I've talked about it before that CTE can often, and this has been talked about by the experts, that it can be triggered, your symptoms can be triggered by a catastrophic event in your life, like a su- death in the family, a divorce, financial loss. And in my case, that's what happened with me in 2021. My wife was in the ICU. It triggered me, and I had all this cascading. In this case, Justin, after this happened with his friend,
ended up getting very delusional. He thought the Russian mob was following him. He had head pressure, which was undiagnosed and unexplained to him by his doctors, which turned out to be a very severe case of hydrocephalus, which can cause pressure on the brain, which was causing him to have these delusions.
So,
in a normal day, he's trying, he's hiding. He's got his phone in tinfoil. He's wrapping things. He goes into his building that he owns and is hi- is hiding in a, in, in the doorway of one of the, the suites that he has access to, and a, a masseuse happens to come in that works in that suite that day. And he's thinking the Russian mob's following him, and she opens the door and he fires on her, believing in his mind that these people are following him, and, and hits her in the shoulder. And, you know, she ends up going to the ER, and thankfully it wasn't a, a critical injury and she was discharged the same day. But the, the, the, the courts threw everything at him. They said, "You're a bad person and, you know, you planned this and you stalked her and you..." You know, he had never... He had only seen her in passing one time before in the building. He waited for the police to show up after he realized it was wrong. You know, all of these elements were overlooked because he was a football player and, you know, and, and he's sitting behind bars right now. And this is a guy that did a huge amount of charity work for, you know, his college, Buffaloes for Life. There's a program. He helped them with that. He was trying to find supplements and programs to help people with CTE. He was trying to fix himself. He has, you know, a daughter and a wife that cared about him deeply that were trying to get him help, and he got ostracized in the press and got made out to be this druggie, you know, loser and You know, as soon as he, after he was put in jail, they finally looked at his brain, and they finally got him... They realized he had this hydrocephalus severely, and they got him a shunt, and they got the drainage, and hey, guess what? He didn't have any more e- episodes after that. It actually resolved the head pressure, and the delusion, and all of these other things. Little too late, he's sitting in jail right now. But, you know, you look at that case and say, "Did CTE make him, make him do it?" Well, CTE didn't pull the trigger, obviously, but in his mind, in his experience, in that framework of what he was in,
he very much felt like he was threatened, his life was threatened. And I-
He-
You know, with certainty had no intent to harm that girl. So he just,
she happened to be the one that opened that door, and he was-
Well, there is-
... fearing for his, you know.
There's, there's a, there's m- many stories, uh, that are not unlike that of, uh, th- th- minds going awry. I mean, guys getting paranoid, th- thinking, uh, killing, killing six people and then killing themselves, or wh- wh- whatever it was or it is. But yeah, that, that was caused by CTE. But, but-
And in that, in that story... Yeah. Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Yeah. No, no, go ahead.
I was just gonna say, and when I did a local, um, piece about CTE and my brain journey on the news, I actually did talk to a father who lost his son to s- to suicide from what ended up being CTE, and he was only a, a high school player and had barely played college. And his dad told me, they owned some rural property over by where I lived at that time, and his dad told me that his son used to go out and point to them and go, "Dad, do you see them?" And he thought the Russians were trying to move in on their property, and he was very fearful and had this paranoia. And there are a lot of cases, if you go back and just, I mean, if you Google search CTE and paranoia, you'll see 20 cases of guys that have similar situations where they had this belief, or they took their life, or they took someone's else's life, or they believed this context. And again, that's the brain, that's the brain damage. And we gotta catch it before that. We gotta get these guys immediate scans, and care, and testing that actually is non-biased, non,
you know... The interests of the NFL and all these other parties need to be put aside. We need to focus on the human and their family and their life after sports, and give them what they deserve, which is an unbiased clinical breakdown before they go out in public of where they stand with things. And not make them feel like a monster, make them understand what the reality of their damage is so that they can get the treatment and care to manage their symptoms. 'Cause you can live with this. That's the one thing I will say is CTE-
Right
... didn't pull the trigger, but CTE also is not keeping me from trying to find ways to get myself better or to do the work. And there are things-
Right
... that, that are working right now that can prevent some of these other outcomes, if these guys, in many cases, even knew that there were options.
Yeah.
I think that-
Well, that's how I look at it, and you're 100% right. It's kinda like when I raged at the QT, Paul,
at that guy. I didn't know I was going after that guy until my wife grabbed my belt loop, and I was already halfway across the parking lot.
Right.
You know? And I remember having a little bit of paranoia, and after the car wreck I had a little bit of paranoia. But I remember after a big hit in the head, when I got kicked in the head, I had paranoia that people were coming to my door and stuff. You know, I'm just, I don't want the public to think that we're giving a clean slate to
all this stuff that goes on and says, you know, "Well, CTE did it." I'm not doing that. There is certain realms, like your buddy, or certain realms like when I was in that rage. If I would've killed that guy, I wouldn't have known it. I was in the middle of a rage.
And it, it would've been because, it would've been because of CTE probably, if you have CTE.
If I have CTE.
Yeah. Well, but-
Where probably I-
This is-
My doctors, I'm probable CTE.
Yeah.
So I can say I probably have it.
Right. So let's, let... I mean, the bottom line is, like, a, a Justin Strzelczyk, who I played against, who was like a gentle giant, a big teddy bear from the University of Maine, uh, O- Orono Bears, right?
He wouldn't have, he wouldn't have driven across an upstate New York or Pennsylvania or wherever he was, a- across a median, and, and run into a, a, a gas truck head-on and killed himself, um-
Right
... without s- without some effects from the CTE. I, I, I honestly believe that. But let's, let's... W- We know, we know what we've been talking about. Um, Al- Alden
Smith's parents are trying to get to that, um, uh, unbiased, uh, d- decision or, or through an autopsy, like you would, you had mentioned, uh, Rico. I wanna know, you've been on a journey. You, you had that, you had that moment where, um, possible CTE or definilit- definite repeated head impacts affected your life physiologically, behaviorally, emotionally, uh, e- even to the point where you couldn't even walk through an airport. Tell us about that and, and end, end this in hope with what you've been able to do.
Hold on, Rico.
Yeah
Time out. Hold on.
During this podcast and this episode, I just unruled a whole bunch of things that I don't remember I unruled. Did I say anything wrong or out of character that I need to
talk about? Did I... When I unloaded here a few minutes ago, I don't remember it. Did z- did I say anything wrong, or not right, or criticize, or do something I shouldn't have done, or said something I shouldn't have said?
I, I don't, I don't think so. We'll find out in editing.
Okay. Paul, do you think I did?
Well, no, you w- you, you get very definitive saying, um, "I'm not gonna let somebody get away with, um, you know, killing their wife or their family and blame it on CTE." Well,
r- Rico backed it up with the ba- uh, came back at it with the story of paranoia and we l- you know, again, the, the kid, the kid that, uh, walked into the NFL, uh, uh, uh, building and, and killed three or four people,
you know,
who, who, who knows? The kid that-
That's premeditated, to drive from California clear to freaking New York-
So, so who-
... park on the avenue-
So, so Corey-
... walk in-
So Corey, the point is, who are we to say CTE caused the paranoia or not? Or who are we to say it's not due to CTE? We don't, we don't know that. And then, and there's evidence that it is.
Well, well, how about this? Yeah, and also, I mean, I gave you some insight, not just about the individual, but their families and their children, and those others that were impacted and affected by it. So, you know, let's, let's dive deeper and get to know these people and get to understand them and support them before we want to judge them. It's not our position to judge,
um, you know, all these individuals. Y- you know, we're seeing... If we're seeing flags in them, we need to make more people aware of what the flags are, and if they start to see sudden changes in a loved one and they have a repetitive head history, to start considering this path and start at least thinking about this could potentially be what they're dealing with. Because you, the one thing you don't wanna do is just to keep running its course unchecked, 'cause that's not a good outcome. You know? So, so that's, that's the thing I hope that we can get people to take away from this is, you know, don't,
don't make it a stigma, because these are athletes that are proud, you, that are high performers, that egos can get in the way. Don't make it like, you know, this is a, this is a defect in them. It's not. It's something that happened to them. And then make sure that their families can see the sym- the symptoms and the signs, their family know how to be a good spouse or how to help them manage their triggers so that they don't have outbursts, that they can eventually bring the, themselves down and start kind of pulling themselves back into who they were so that it doesn't keep snowballing, and, and then how to find the right resources. 'Cause that's the number one thing, is people go, "I don't know where to go. Where do I go next?" You know?
"How do, how do I get that care?" And that, that's what we need to... You know, we, we wanna do the assessment on the, the, the, the tangled up car wreck, right? Instead of looking way back here to see everything that happened before that car wreck that could've prevented the car wreck from happening. And I hate doing this diagnosis over here, where it's just a mangled mess, when we don't go back and look at Alton Smith and go back f- three years and five years and when he was playing, and maybe...
Trauma started at four years old, you know? And, you know, let's, let's look at those kinds of things and put a bigger picture together that helps us understand more so we can protect future people.
And I think-
That's great
... that's where I was trying to go. I think that's the realm I was trying to go, is let's not, yeah, get the help before the cascade hurts.
Yeah. And, and, and I guess back to you, Paul, you wanted me to give the kind of the short and sweet wrap up.
I, I know. Yeah, I wanna know what helped that you, you found that, uh, ha- has, uh, brought you kind of full circle. Please. Talk to, talk to us-
Yeah, I mean-
... about your demise and then, uh, your search, your journey.
Yeah, I mean, I, I talked about it a little bit. I, I mentioned the, the triggering, potential triggering event that causes a cascading. And for me, my wife at the time went into the ICU in 2021 and had a one percent chance of living, and I had to maintain a job and a lifestyle and, you know, we had four kids that went to three different schools, and I had to be mom and dad, and I had to literally one night gather the, her family together and get a, get a pastor to give last rites because she wasn't supposed to make it through the night. And one percent liver function, and miraculously she recovered. But
from that point on, I was never the same. I, you know, she came back and didn't even know me, like I was a different person. Um, and you know, it wasn't just mood stuff. It wasn't just, "Oh, I'm sad because I might lose my wife." It was- Over 50 symptoms that just catastrophic systemic failure of my body, of every system; mood, behavior, sleep, cognitive, et cetera, physical. You know, um, you know, I was only getting 13 minutes REM sleep. I, you know, just to name one thing. Um, I had the explosive anger, I had the fight or flight response, uh, uh, depression, all of those things. And I knew from my history after I started really looking at this, and CTE started getting talked about more, that, hey, this could potentially be me. So I started, you know, I got on Facebook and I got in a couple groups, and I got... found out there was this red light study that now Corey's doing red light, but I was one of the first 50 athletes to do it. And University of Utah, got in there, got my scans, started using the red light device. A month in, I started seeing some subtle changes, so did my wife. And two months in, I really started feeling better, and I've been building on it ever since. So, um, red light was one of the things that I really feel like literally saved my life. But as I started knocking down that symptom list, and I text... Corey and I were talking about this earlier today. I made a list of all the symptoms, and I went, I put, at the top of it was the priority ones of what's gonna kill me first, and then researching how to stop those things, you know, which the depression was high on the list because the depression and apathy and suicidality was very, very, hit very hard. So I, I tried to get that stabilized first. Um, and then I just started deep diving and, you know, lear- learned about supplements, natural supplements that were working. Um,
you know, changes in my diet, uh, and the red light and other alternative treatments like cryo and hyperbaric, uh, and, and things like that that really started making... Every one of them just took a little bit more off the plate of what I was dealing with and, and what was happening to me. And, um, currently,
you know, I'm doing, I'm doing really, really well. You know, I, I, I've got a, a really good quality of life. I'm really happy. I've got good relationships. I don't have the suicidality. I don't have the depression I had. I don't have the explosive anger. Um, I'm not a, a threat to myself or anyone else, you know? I, I'm really living a pretty happy-go-lucky, grateful life now that I, at that point in time,
things hit so hard that I didn't think I would even literally make it through a day. It's like it was my, my window of existence was if I can get through this week, and then it became if I can get through this day, and then it was if I can just get through this hour, you know? And that's where you really know that things are backsliding, is when you're then going, "If I can just get through this next 15 minutes" you know? And I, I shared this before, I, I remember sitting on my, the bed, you know, because of the neuro fatigue and exhaustion and my wife coming in and, and getting mad at me at something, and I had a, you know, a gun in the side dresser, and literally crossing my mind going,
you know, she's sh- you know, kinda grinding me and I'm going, "Huh, do I go downstairs right now and make a sandwich, or do I go pull that gun and eat a bullet?"
I mean, and both of those
had the same, in my mind, like, sounded like the same, like, answer, like, like a good response. Like, either one were equal options. Like, well, go make a sandwich or you eat a bullet in there. There was nothing in there that should have been there that's always been there to tell me, "No, that has a really bad lasting consequence. In fact, that's got a finalized consequence if you do that," right? That one wasn't there.
It's there back again now, but it wasn't there at that time. And, and I, and I don't have any mental health issues. I don't have any other issues, but I do have scans that a neurologist saw that didn't know my history that when he saw my prefrontal cortex where all this resides, he said, "You look like you're the victim of a gunshot wound to the head" you know? Because there was so much damage up there and so much of that tissue is destroyed. And so that,
again, reinforces that don't fault the person. Love that person even more and try to help them get these answers, 'cause their brain is not working and they're gonna need more help and guidance, and they're gonna need somebody that knows them, that on a daily basis is kinda being that thermometer for them, you know? And just checking things and going, "Okay, you're running a little hot today. We got..." you know, and, and, and, and being that gauge to make sure that they're staying within
their normal, you know? And, and helping keep those triggers away and helping them stay focused and, and, and, and being a good caregiver. That's really a key to this is-
Mm
... is, is having that support and having people around you, and then eventually learning your own tools
so that you can self-monitor, and that's where I'm at now. I, I, you know, I'm at a place where I definitely can self-regulate,
and
I know when I'm off. I know when I'm having one of those days where it could slide and I need to either take a nap or shift gears or not hyperfocus on whatever it was that's causing this trauma and, and pivot. But it, it, it's, it's a daily, it's a lifetime task really. It's like sobriety with alcoholics. I hear it all the time. They say, "I'm never not an alcoholic," you know? "I'm always going to be an alcoholic even when I'm sober." And every day is a new start to that clock of keeping that sobriety, keeping that pledge. And I think with brain health it's the same.
Mm.
I'm never gonna be who I was. It's the reality. There's too much damage. But I, I can certainly Take a lot of the variables out that might cause this to not be the kind of life that I want it to be, so...
Dang, Rico, is all we can-
No, that's one just... Yeah.
You're awesome. I love to have you on because you're so articulate and so thought process on everything that you can really tell that you are educated beyond educated on this, and that you strive to really help others in this disease, where I'm striving to help others and so is Paul,
but I'm still at the I'm hurt phase. I'm still at the I need help phase. And without my wife, I probably wouldn't be here.
I mean, my wife keeps me in check. My wife,
I mean, when things go, "Sit down. Slow down. Breathe. Do what you need to. Come on. Check yourself."
And so
I'm real thankful when we get a chance to have you on and talk because of the way you talk about it and articulate and explain, that you do much better than I believe Paul or I do. But we all got our purpose.
You and Paul.
Well, I, and, and Corey-
We all have our angles to this experience, you know?
Yeah. And, and Corey, I gotta tell you, you,
y- you, you are in it, but you help people. I mean, I've, I've seen you, I've heard you help people on support groups. You, and you helped a, a, a, a, a person that's become a friend, a whole family you helped, uh, two weeks ago for five, six hours over the span of a couple days. So you might not remember everything you're doing, but you, you are helping people, and th- that's a, that's a, a feather in, in, in your cap and, uh, your...
You, you know, St. Peter might meet you at the gate, Corey, and say, "You helped, uh, you know, 73, you know, a hun- a thousand pe- a million people, so you're in."
But anyway, um-
But there's, but, but yeah, but two, two points to that. Like you mentioned, Corey, um,
you... I was in search and rescue, uh, for a while, and one of the, the first rule we had is you can't save someone else until you're in a safe position, right?
Right.
So-
Right
...
you know, you're working on that, which is really commendable. You're doing the work, you're learning more, you're talking to more experts, and you're sharing it through this podcast. But I think the second thing that has kept me going and continuing to get better is what you guys also do too, is I try to engage in our community because it needs it. The brain injury community and the TBI community and the CTE community, there are families that are just lost and heartbroken and devastated and want their loved one back, and there's individuals that have been i- isolating and alone and not understanding what's happening to them, and just your shared experience will make them not feel alone. And if they don't feel alone, then that gives them just a little light and a little hope that somebody else is there to walk this with me. And when you walk it with somebody else, it also makes you personally accountable. I can't, at this point in my life, I'm so vested in our community that
if I did something, sorry,
but if I
had a unfortunate event, let's say,
it would hurt a lot of other people and it would disappoint them, and they would feel like there wasn't hope.
So, um, so yeah, that, that's something that's like brother's keeper, just like our football teams and our sports, you know? When you know that you might be the lifeline for somebody else,
it's gonna keep you around, so.
Yeah.
That's powerful. That's powerful. That's, uh-
Sorry, this was supposed to end on a happy note. I'm-
Well, th- this is gonna end on a-
Get a little reflective on things, but, uh, but it is something that I'm passionate about, and I think that that's the way that we bring the most hope and help to people, is just humanize this.
Yeah.
Don't demonize the players. Don't demonize the families. Don't speculate. Don't be, don't take a position of power like a top NFL player or a broadcaster and use that to set those people back and isolate them and shame them. Don't do that.
Mm.
There's no need for that. Give them love. Give them the... Even if you don't believe in CTE, give it the benefit of the doubt, because nobody in their right mind would fucking fake this. There is no way.
Mm. Mm.
Nobody wants to live this life. Nobody wants to wake up every day and spin that wheel of symptoms and go, "What am I dealing with today? Oh, hey, great. I, uh, I have neuropathy today, and I can't move. Oh, hey, great. I got four minutes of REM sleep last night because I had, uh, you know,
whatever." You know? I mean, give these people
a chance, and the way you give them a chance is support them and, and, and care for them, so, and-
Yeah
... and don't alienate them. So, you know, it'd be nice that Aldon Smith would have had the same kind of support from the team and the owners and the community-
Mm
... that he, in, in his after program and after N- the NFL as he did when he was playing 'cause I, we might have a different outcome.
Yeah. That's, yeah, the, there, there's no doubt about that. It's, it's all about relationship. It's all about you. We isolate. Do not isolate. Don't, don't, don't isolate. Please pick up the phone. I mean, Corey, uh, you know, uh, has told, you know, said numerous times he picks up the phone sometimes Because he's in a squirrely situation, but he doesn't tell me, "Hey, Paul, I'm in a squirrely situation." He'll say, "Hey," and we'll just talk about the gym, we'll talk about the weather, we'll talk about whatever. "Oh, the weather sucks today. My, the barometric pressure's, um, I'm off." And, and it's, we, we have to be there for each other. Um, uh-
Yes
... um, now I am gonna... So that, you, you gave us a word of hope, and thank you, and that's, that, that's needed for families that are dealing with, um, um,
guys and gals that have been, uh, subjected to repeated head impacts. GABA, you can only get GABA from fermented foods or alcohol?
Yeah.
Is that-
I mean, you can get it, you can get it from a couple other food options, but the, the most absorbable ways are-
So-
... fermented foods. So kimchi, sauerkraut-
Sauerkraut
... uh, uh, Greek yogurt, um, and then
some of the other foods that are not those, because I know those are hard to eat every day, but those are some of the ones that work. Um, there is also a, um, chewable tablet that you can take. Uh-
Really?
I, I'm only gonna say the company and the brand because it's the only one I've used that I, that I feel personally works for me. Again, it's not medical advice. I'm not a sponsor. I don't, I'm not a paid promoter. But there's a, uh, a company called Natural Factors that makes what they call a PharmaGABA chewable, and it comes in 100 milligram and 250 milligram. They have a website. You can get it on Amazon even. It's about $23, something like that. Um, when you take these, it's called PharmaGABA because they use the same fermentation process that you get from all those other things. So it-
Mm-hmm
... mimics the same way that your body would get these other than, you know. So, so the chewable, you chew it, absorbs through the mouth. Uh, you'll get a response within five to 10 minutes, and you'll immediately, it puts the brakes on that fight or flight and the amygdala hijack, and it creates a sense-
Hmm
... of calm in the body, and it typically lasts, one tablet will last four to six hours. Uh, in my brain injury group, you know, we share best practice. There's been probably 25, 30 people that have suspected CTE or TBI injuries that have dealt with fight or flight that use these tablets and have had incredible success. They say it literally calms their system down. Uh, some of them that have not been able to go out in public, in crowded spaces like we were talking about, have taken these. They can go do it. Um, I personally, when I was having trouble flying, uh, was using them, and it calmed me so when I would get on a plane. So it, that's a, that's a really good one. That's a great, easy tool. It's, uh-
Good
... no side effects, 100% safe.
Tell us the name.
Um, the company name-
Tell us the name again
... is Natural... The company name is Natural Factors,
and the product is called PharmaGABA chewables. Don't get-
Great
... capsules. Don't get, they sell also a capsule that goes into the gut that when it gets to the gut, it breaks down just like glutathione, and it, it doesn't absorb the same. So the only way that I've been able to actually get that type of neuro response and braking with this through this, the chewable form of it. And I, I f- that's why I have to say the specific brand because I don't know anybody else that's actually making a chewable version.
Right.
Nor have I seen-
Right
... anybody else get the same kind of results using anything else, so, um.
Mm-hmm.
Text that to me, Rico.
Yeah, absolutely.
When we're done, can you text that to me?
Yeah. I'll send you-
'Cause I'm trying to remember it, and I already forgot it, so.
Maybe they'll become one, maybe they'll become one of your new sponsors. Who knows? But, uh ...
There you go.
We'll, we'll give them a call.
Yeah.
Rico, uh, what about-
Text that to me because I've already forgot the name of it, so.
Yeah.
It's a pleasure, it's a pleasure to see you, Rico, and thank you for joining, joining us, and, uh, we, we gotta do it again sooner than later.
Yeah. Thanks for having me. Always, always love coming on with you guys. You guys always are on the front edge of the topics of the day with CTE and CTE-related, um, care and support and advocacy, so thank you for everything you guys are doing. Uh, keep it up. It matters. There aren't enough voices, you know, out there right now. So as long as we keep-
Yeah
... having the Whitlocks out there, we need to have a counter voice that, that helps parents and people make good, informed choices and smart choices about the future of their children and, and their loved ones, so.
Yeah. Powerful.
And what's the name of your Facebook group?
Uh, it is, our Facebook group is called the CTE and TBI Warrior Circle. So it's a private group. You can find it on Facebook. Um,
y- we, we try to keep it for brain injured people, and also we do allow, uh, caregivers to be in the group as well because it helps them to see what people with CTE or suspected CTE might be experiencing, and I, I think it does just as much good for them as it does for the warrior. So, um, what we try to do is, again, it's not medical advice. We share best practices. We share research. We share clinical trials that might be available. We share what's working for people, and we talk about what's not working for people. And so I just, you know, the, the whole goal of that group when I set it up was to try to get more information out there to help people with this because the doctors don't know. Uh, you know, you can't find reliable stuff online. You can't get medical help necessarily. And I think that- People that are living it truly understand it and offer you the best chance at finding things that might work with your symptoms and condition and help based on kind of the collective mindset of what, what's working for us. And we've had some great breakthroughs through the group, you know, of things that are working for us that are truly making differences in people's life with all the things-
Mm-hmm
... I just talked about: food, behavior, cognitive, sleep, physical. You know, there's a lot of great best practices that have come out of the group, which, which makes me really proud of what we're doing, so.
That's awesome.
Great.
That is awesome. Paul, do you wanna wrap us up and finish this off?
Well, I de- definitely, uh, appreciate you, Rico. Uh, Corey, appreciate you. Uh, love you guys. And we are, uh, we, we still have a lot of, uh, talking to do to educate the parents that, uh, seven-year-olds' brains are not even close to being developed to, to the point where they can actually sustain repeated head impacts without causing brain damage. And I don't care if you damage 1 of the 100 billion neurons, y- that's considered brain damage. And, uh, um, man, if we could just get the, the, through the education to the parents and teach them, uh, teach them that, uh, they're, they're responsible for their child's health if they're strapping, uh, a seven-year-old, a helmet on a seven-year-old kid. So that's, that's kind of my plight right now. And, and I know we, uh, we agree on, on a lot of that, uh, Corey. And,
uh, stay alert, stay alive, sign, subscribe,
whatever you do to the, the, in the hands of the algor- algorithms.
Share. Share them. Please share-
Share
... yeah, please share these so we can get a wider audience.
Yeah.
You know? That, that will help us all a lot, too, 'cause if, if we just get in front of one or two people and they tell they don't know anything about CTE, and they say, tell two or three people, that's, that's how we kind of build some support, so.
And I gotta give Paul kudos before we leave. I gotta give him big kudos.
Oh.
He went to an NFL kids camp. No hitting, but he went to an NFL summer kids camp. Do you know what hat he wore?
Dontknockit.cte.org. Gotta give it to the man.
You-
He went to an NFL camp wearing the right hat.
You s- you saw that, Corey?
All of it.
Good deal.
Yes, I did.
I was like, who-
Now, the question will be is if he gets invited back.
Yeah. Yeah. Well-
All righty, guys. Well, y'all enjoy. Thank you so much, Rico, for all your time-
Thank you
... as always. I love talking with you. You're a great guest, and you're a really good friend, and you've been an asset to helping me on my journey. Thank you, Paul, as always. Hopefully, you get to go get some Bella time with you tonight. Take Bella out to din- and Bella's his daughter, so don't get no naughty thinking. When I say Bella time, it's daughter time.
You get-
Daddy-daughter. That's right
... daddy-daughter time. So-
That's right
... you guys go enjoy. Have a good evening. We'll talk to you later.
Um, I don't know what's coming on next week, so I ain't gonna tell you. Stay tuned. Stay alert for Monday, 3:00 PM. We have a download. Have a good one.
Thank you. Good night.
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