Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
We interview sustainability leaders across industries to learn what they are working on and how they are steering their companies toward a climate-friendly world.
Intro - 00:00:12:
Welcome to Open Source Sustainability. On this show, Alex Lassiter, CEO of GreenPlaces, talks with sustainability leaders to learn how companies are adapting their business models to be in line with sustainability goals. We believe sustainability has to be open source to be successful, and these leaders have offered us a glimpse inside their strategies and the hopes that we can all move forward together. We are fascinated by some of the unique challenges these sustainability leaders face and are excited to dive deeper. In this episode, Alex is joined by Zach Berliner from Lowenstein Sandler, a New York-based law firm ranked in the Am Law 100. Zach, a six-year associate in the Environmental Law Litigation Practice Group, shares his journey and passion for environmental and sustainability issues. The discussion covers the evolving landscape of environmental law, expanding beyond traditional focus areas, and how businesses, even law firms, are now navigating ESG frameworks.
Alex - 00:01:11:
Zach, welcome to the show.
Zach - 00:01:12:
It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Alex - 00:01:14:
Absolutely. Well, I think a great place to start here is to maybe introduce yourself, talk a little bit about why are law firms talking about sustainability? Why are you talking about this? How did you get in here? But give us a little bit of a backstory to yourself.
Zach- 00:01:26:
Yeah, sure. So I am a six-year associate in the Environmental Law and Litigation Practice Group at Lowenstein. And I've really been interested and passionate about environmental and sustainability issues for probably since high school. And so I've really been focused on practicing in that area, making an impact in that area for a long time. And so my work really centers around really anything environmental, whether it's litigation or advising or transactional work. So it really runs the gamut. And so it's really a natural fit, I think, for me to start thinking about and trying to move in the direction of more ESG sustainability work. But in terms of our own internal efforts, it really just started with our former Chief Operating Officer was interested in these issues, and he started to reach out to people and think about it. And it just so happened that I randomly reached out to him to see what the firm was doing on sustainability. And the timing just aligned, and it's been history ever since. And I really reached out because I figured, you know, if we're going to advise clients on sustainability issues, we have to not only talk that talk, but we have to walk the walk internally at our own firm, not only because it makes sense in that sense, but also it's just the right thing to do. And the world is moving in that direction.
Alex - 00:02:50:
Absolutely. The landscape of environmental law has changed a lot. You know, I'm sure as you kind of stepped into this, you said seven years ago and kind of working your way up into the field. As I have always sort of understood, environmental law is pretty typically going to be focused on energy companies, obviously cleanups, spills, things like that. But are you seeing environmental law shift into this space? Like, when did that change sort of occur and how does it look kind of going forward?
Zach - 00:03:21:
Yeah, I mean, I think you're right. I think, you know, environmental laws has traditionally been focused on, you know, dirty dirt and groundwater and air emissions and water and hazardous waste management and all of that. And it still is very much focused on that. But I think as the need to combat climate change and reduce emissions and all of that intensifies. I think that the role of an environmental lawyer has expanded to not just cover legacy issues or issues that are on site or whatever, but it's more so not only your impact on the environment immediately around you, but also your impact on the planet and climate change and your carbon and greenhouse gas emissions and things like that. And it's interesting, even though I haven't been in the field all that long, even when I was in college in law school, we talked a lot about sustainability issues, but the ESG jargon and framework was never really that prominent, you know, I didn't hear those and and As lawyers, words really matter to us, like how things are described and what words are used. And so I think about that a lot. And yeah, that set of vocabulary really wasn't at least part of my world, even though we were talking about it. So it's interesting to even see how things have changed even within the last five to seven years.
Alex- 00:04:49:
One of the things that we've heard a lot recently is the frameworks and the things that you were advising clients on in environmental law are pretty similar in some cases to the things that new businesses are having to do. But what's changing is sort of the makeup of those clientele. So instead of an oil company reaching out and saying, hey, how do I think about measuring my, you know, emissions and reporting into regulation or accessing tax credits, whatever it might be. You know, you're still advising on some of that same type of stuff. It's just with new types of businesses. Like, what companies are now? You know, what client types and industries are you seeing getting pulled into this stuff? Like, who are the new businesses that are facing these kind of new regulations and reporting mandates and asking you for help?
Zach- 00:05:38:
Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's really expanded because under traditional environmental frameworks, of course, you have to be some kind of subject entity, either you're doing some type of physical activity that impacts the environment in an explicit or discreet way, but with the rise of ESG and climate related reporting requirements and things like that, especially with the rise of having to track and report Scope 3 emissions. A lot of companies that traditionally maybe weren't subject to traditional environmental laws or regulations are being swept in and having to think about what their emissions are. Even if they're not directly subject to the reporting requirements, they may be swept in by a bigger company in their value chain who is subject to it and has to track their scope 3 emissions in that smaller entity like a software company or something would be swept in as part of that value chain. And now they're facing questions increasingly about that. And even my own law firm, for example, I mean, we have certain clients that are starting to ask us about our own greenhouse gas emissions as part of their own efforts to track their own scope 3 emissions. I can tell you, we've never been asked about any of that up until the last year or two.
Alex - 00:06:57:
Is that something that you feel like is, because I know a lot of law firms today get asked about diversity. They get asked about pro bono. And there's a number of things that you request, you know, of all of your suppliers and particularly legal counsel to make sure that you're able to meet those requirements. Is this a continuation of that? Are you seeing the same people who were asking, that information, asking this or is it coming from new sources?
Zach- 00:07:23:
I think it's definitely an overlap. Maybe not 100%, but it's definitely an overlap and it seems like an outgrowth of the initial efforts to boost DEI efforts and things like that. And I think you find that a lot of the entities that care about DEI efforts naturally are just shifting and also caring about what our emissions are as part of a broader ESG strategy within that company. But for now, it's certainly a smaller subset of clients that are asking about our emissions, but I think that's only going to grow even within the next year or two.
Alex - 00:08:01:
So going back to how you start to think about your own firm's strategy here. You know, as you mentioned, this was something that was important to you. It was something that you and some other folks felt like was a responsibility of the company to do their part. There's this external pressure, too, of businesses asking the firm through RFPs and surveys to do it as well. How did that, as you were building the case for doing this at Lowenstein, how did those two things interact? Like, was that part of the calculus as you think about doing this? Was it needed to have that external pressure to get this over the finish line? You talked to me about that process of like, this is an idea, it's something we want to do to something that today, Lowenstein does a ton around this stuff. So we'd love to hear more about how you bridge those two things.
Zach - 00:08:54:
Yeah, I mean, I think that's certainly part of it. I mean, it's part of the case we have to make, right, to upper management as to why this isn't just like any other initiative. You have to explain why it's important, why it adds value to the firm and all of that. And I think, though, we were very fortunate to have a lot of people who really understood it and didn't need a lot of data or explanation to back it up. Also the people at my firm were very clear that they wanted it to be almost like a grassroots, like bottom-up type of approach where maybe more younger attorneys at the firm are passionate about this stuff and want the firm to be committed to this stuff and express that. And that's really how it bubbled up. It was very much not top-down. It was bottom-up, which I think is great. You know, it made me and a lot of other people at the firm who care about this stuff feel empowered and like we can make a difference. And so, I mean, the case was really, it involved everything you can expect. It was hey, it's the right thing to do. It's probably going to save money. Clients are asking about it. Other firms are doing it. Potential employment in terms of employment retention and attraction issue, younger lawyers and young talent are thinking about this when they're picking which firms to even interview at, let alone accept offers from. And they're asking about it. People at the firm care about it. So it was really a combination of all those things.
Alex - 00:10:31:
How has it been received? You know, as he got it over the finish line and started to do work here. How has it been received within the firm with your peers?
Zach - 00:10:40:
I think everyone's been very supportive, really. And we have a... We formed an internal Sustainability Committee who's starting to really tackle this stuff. And we got a lot of people who were interested. We couldn't take everybody, but it's slowly been trickling outward and people are. People have really been very supportive. That's been my whole impression.
Alex - 00:11:05:
So the Sustainability Committee today, is it built up of environmental folks in the environmental practice? Do you have operations folks? Like who kind of, where does this live within within the firm?
Zach - 00:11:19:
Yeah, that's a great question. So we wanted it to be a representative group. So we were pretty careful to pick one or two lawyers from each of our five offices and then we had one or two like office representatives who were on the more business support side who weren't attorneys so mostly office managers or operations people. Actually, I'm the only environmental lawyer on the whole committee, which is great. I think that it should be that way. I don't think it should be dominated by people who do this stuff on a more regular basis. I think all the viewpoints are important. So I think we've been able to strike that balance so far.
Alex - 00:12:00:
Do you feel like it's helped you serve clients better? I know it's still very new, but have you, and you likely haven't shared a whole lot with clients as you're kind of getting started and everything, but how do you anticipate having this conversation with clients, like, especially in your practice area?
Zach - 00:12:18:
Yeah, I think it's been a great experience to be involved in this as we do it ourselves, because as we walk our own walk, we can help clients walk their own walk and we can relate to their experience and understand what the steps are, how you need to put together a team, what kind of information you need to gather, what the challenges are, what the risks are. It's one thing which we also strive to do, which is just to understand it from a legal kind of cold. Like outsider paper perspective, but it's another thing to also do it yourself and to add value in that sense. So it's been, I think it's been helpful. We've really been learning a lot. And I think that from our experience, we'll be able to add value in that sense.
Alex - 00:13:06:
And I imagine for, you know, a lot of your clients that are just now in that same sort of stage, these folks that, you know, maybe they're facing reporting requirements from the S&P 500 Index or Microsoft or whatever it might be. This is new for them too. So I imagine. It's probably pretty, I would imagine pretty helpful. I would view as a, as a client to say. Being able to say, this is hard, we've done it, like this is how we did it, is actually, I think, probably pretty helpful. Are you seeing a lot of these folks also in their first stages of this? Are they coming to you with, what are we supposed to be doing and how do we begin? Like, what sort of questions are people asking?
Zach - 00:13:45:
Yeah, sure. I think that it runs the gamut. But I think that a lot of our clients certainly are thinking about what you're saying. Like, where do I start? You know, because I think there's a difference there. There's, of course, you have the group of the very large companies who chances are they're already pretty sophisticated and far along on these things. But I think those companies are few in comparison to all the other people who are now facing pressure to do this stuff. So I think some of the questions are, where do I begin? You know, what are the requirements, if any, that I am subject to, may be subject to? What do I need to do to prepare? Who do I need to hire to help me? How do I put together a team internally? So it's, I think it is a lot of those, like, where do I begin type of things.
Alex - 00:14:38:
Now, I know a subject that you've done a considerable amount of research in, and as other people are trying to figure out as well, is some of the new regulation in California. You know, that's certainly on top of mind for a lot of businesses. But can you talk a little bit about, you know, what is this legislation? At this point, what does it mean and what are the implications for people? And we'd love to learn a little bit more around what you’re seeing there.
Zach - 00:15:06:
Yeah, sure. So as a lot of people probably know, California, about two months ago now, enacted basically legislation that's the first of its kind in the US, which is there are three laws. There's SB 253, SB 261, and AB 1305. And the first one basically requires reporting, annual reporting of all scope 1 through 3 emissions. And then the second one requires reporting of climate related financial risks. And then the third one at a very high level, again, these laws are more complicated, but a high level the third one basically requires reporting and documentation of proof of any net zero claims or carbon neutral claims or carbon reduction claims that you're making or any voluntary carbon offsets you may be purchasing and then on the on the side of people selling those offsets, it's going to require a lot of proof of what those offsets are and how they're calculated and how they're verified and all of that. So there's a very interesting rank all these from my perspective as a lawyer in terms of which companies are going to be subject to the first two is SB 253 and SB 261. Right now, the laws are a little bit unclear on who they're going to apply to and how that's going to shake out. But generally, it's going to apply to at least the first one for reporting your emissions. It's going to cover any company that has a billion dollars in revenue per year and that they're organized under US Law. And then the third prong of the applicability there is, I think, the most squeaky one, which is any company, you have to be doing business in California, which is not defined in the law and it's defined elsewhere under California Law. And it's really very broad. It could even be having a small amount of payroll in California. It could just be owning a little piece of property or just doing a certain amount of sales in California. So I think, I mean, assuming that that is what the law meant when they use that term and that's a lot of people seem to think that even though it's not explicit in the law, I think that there's going to be a lot of tension in that part of the analysis.
Alex - 00:17:40:
And you mentioned that, you know, this is billion dollar companies, but scope 3 includes the supply chain and service providers and all of the people that serve these businesses. Their law firms. Their accounting firms. Their physical suppliers or staffing companies. Are all of these folks pulled into that as you think about, I guess what I'm getting at is that where some of this pressure is coming from and do you anticipate more because of it? Because if I'm a billion dollar company and I operate in California and I have to report on scope 1 through 3. Is the assumption then that everybody that serves those businesses will have to be reporting into those companies is that the drag along?
Zach - 00:18:28:
Right. So I think the short answer is yes, because the law actually requires reporting of your scope 1-3 emissions from anywhere. Not just any operations you may be doing in California. So it's conceivable that most billion-dollar companies probably do some type of business in California. I think it's like the fourth largest economy in the world. So chances are most billion dollar companies will be subject and so than their entire supply chains up and down. You know, to the extent that they fall in the scope 3 category under the Greenhouse Gas Protocol, which is actually what this law refers to. You have to do your tracking and reporting in accordance with the Greenhouse Gas Protocol. So it's not a new set of standards, thankfully. It's probably a set of standards that a lot of people are already familiar with. But to the extent that you fall under scope 3 in accordance with The Greenhouse Gas Protocol, then yeah, you'd be pulled in. So I think you're right. I think that this law is just going to increased pressure on, of course, companies who are large, like billion dollar companies, but also all companies that do business with them to really start to think about what their emissions are.
Alex - 00:19:43:
Is a way to think about this. If I'm a business of any type that is in the supply chain or a service provider of a billion dollar company that's based in the US or does business in the US. I'm likely going to have required reporting in my future. Is that where this kind of comes from?
Zach - 00:20:04:
Yeah, I would say so. I mean, the word required, of course, is a little bit murky because a lot of companies won't actually be subject to the law itself. But instead, they will just be asked by companies who are subject about their own emissions. And even though those companies won't be subject or face legal liability necessarily for not being able to calculate their own emissions or not doing it well, you know, you, I think you still run into the issue of, well, if I do a lot of business with a billion dollar company and my emissions now are very important to their compliance with this new law and I'm not able to track them very well, that might damage my business relationship with this company, or they might not be able to do business with me anymore. So even though there's not straight legal ramifications, I think there's still a lot of other ramifications, you know, financial, reputational, that people have to think about.
Alex - 00:21:09:
Yeah, it feels like sustainability and carbon footprinting is moving into this business requirement stage. This is something that if you're going to want to do business with these folks, you've got to be able to make sure that you're reporting your carbon footprint. You've got things in order. And you're right, we have similar concerns in our business with cybersecurity. And we saw this over the last five to 10 years as SOC 2 compliance became a business requirement for basically everybody, because if my company is small as we are wants to be able to win a deal, I'm going to get disqualified if I can't meet those minimum requirements. And so if I'm a service provider or a business that, you know, again, is kind of working in that supply chain. This seems to have some ramifications for the way that I think about doing my reporting.
Zach- 00:22:03:
Yeah, sure. Because, you know, there is legal risk for these companies that are subject to the law if their reporting is incomplete or inaccurate. So they're really going to be facing a lot of pressure, both, of course, from regulators, but also just internally to really make sure that they're conducting business with people who can track their own emissions.
Alex - 00:22:28:
So do you think that, I guess, as you think about peers and as you were of working through this internal case you know at Lowenstein, are you seeing this as a trend for law firms and other professional services, you know, insurance companies and staffing firms and accounting firms and businesses that may not historically have been thinking a lot about greenhouse gas emissions, are you seeing that trend? Is this something where the majority of the people that you talk to are in the process of figuring this stuff out?
Zach- 00:23:00:
Absolutely. Especially the larger firms like Am Law 100, Am Law 200. A lot of people that I've met and spoken to that work at those firms, a lot of people are thinking about it. And a lot of firms, even if they don't report about it on their website, which is a whole other, of course, thing. And for example, we don't yet because we want to make sure that we have something substantial to say about it. And we're in the process of still collecting information and tracking our emissions and getting an initial report on what our carbon footprint is. But even though there are a lot of firms already reporting about it on their websites, even more are, I think, thinking about it and doing things. And I think it's really because of that pressure that you're talking about. I mean, there's a little bit of a... You can maybe have an intellectual debate about whether law firms are included in the scope 3 admissions of their clients. I know there's some debate about advised admissions and things like that. But for now, you know, we're not going to debate our clients that were in their scope 3 admissions or not. And, you know, if they ask for our admissions, we're going to do our best to tabulate it, of course. So, I mean, I think a lot of other firms are in that position.
Alex - 00:24:20:
Yeah, it's funny. I think even six months ago, conversations we would have with people would border on ideology. You know, it was. Is this something we believe in or not believe in? And it seems like in the last few months, particularly as this legislation was passed, that. It's moved to just a practical reality at this point. So we've moved from what should I to it's inevitable. I've got to do it. And now it's just trying to figure out how do we do it?
Zach - 00:24:48:
Yeah, I agree. And I think that's really been that narrative has changed even within the last year or two in the US, especially. I mean, because before the California laws, there really wasn't much of any law really specifically requiring things like this. You know, people have reported emissions in certain limited regulatory frameworks in the past, but this is really the first one that actually really targets it in a systematic and holistic like scope 1-3 way. And so I think you're right. I think, you know, regardless of what the political discourse might be in the US. And of course, there's a lot of, it is pretty heated right now there are a lot of states that are trying to there's like an ESG backlash. You know, so you have the typical people falling into different camps, like the more right-leaning states are trying to move away from it, whereas the left-leaning states like California and others are leaning into it. But, if there are laws in the books, there are laws in the books. You have to comply.
Alex - 00:25:54:
When I was talking to a chief sustainability officer of a very large Fortune 500 company. And I'd asked him this question, particularly of like, why is this important to you? Just in general, what's the business reason for assessing all of this data within your supply chain? And what he said was interesting. He said that the supply chain of my suppliers, the data that I get from their carbon footprint and the data that I want them to report to me. That is my assumed risk. You know, he said, we live in a world where everybody has an iPhone. Everybody is able to get information. It's not a world where anything can hide. It's just when will it be available to people. And he said, so I have to think really critically as a risk analysis of my suppliers and everybody that they work with. If I have a business relationship with somebody who has an unsavory business relationship somewhere down the road. I'm the one that assumes the vast majority of that risk because that's who people are going to come after. That's where I worry about stock price. That's where I worry about breaking news or press issues or anything to that extent. And so he said, you know, just very blankly. It doesn't matter about the politics of this situation. This is a corporate risk. And because the data can be available, we need to know it. So that we can better manage for our own compliance at risk, you know, for our brand.
Zach - 00:27:18:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the risk really falls into several buckets. It's legal, it's reputational, it's financial. There are several buckets within each of those three. You know, it's really not just a straight legal issue.
Alex - 00:27:33:
So with all of this, it seems like your, obviously, environmental practice is going to grow. I mean, this is a huge challenge of questions and risk analysis and all these types of things that obviously a legal professional is going to be set up to be able to help. How is Lowenstein or are you thinking about being able to meet the demands of clients. I'm sure lots of it is education, but does the firm see this as an area of growth in the business as they think about the next 10 years? Is environmental and ESG sustainability. Like as a practice area, is this a big trend that you see in the legal practice?
Zach - 00:28:13:
Yeah, I mean, just speaking from my personal perspective on this, I mean, I think the answer to that is a resounding yes. Even just with these new laws in California, we've faced a lot of questions already, even though some of them really... Like one of them really isn't, it's in effect, but it's not really able to be implemented until there are a lot of regulations in place. But people are still already starting to think about this stuff. So I think it's definitely. Even though ESG has been around for a while, it's not really anything new. I think that it's because it's finally really being codified in a focused way. It's new in that sense, and it's really becoming a new frontier in the environmental world. So, we are certainly trying to think about, you know, what our strategy is for advising clients and how to add value and how to navigate people through these new laws and requirements. Because on the one hand, a lot of the skills and strategies that you apply to navigating these new things aren't new. Because for a long time in the environmental world, we've always been dealing with regulatory regimes and state and federal regulators and dense requirements and technical issues and those things changing often, because that's what happens in the environmental world. There's new laws and regulations all the time. So on the one hand, it's not new in that sense, but on the other hand, it really is new in the sense that it's very data heavy. You have to really put in place a lot of. More sophisticated infrastructure to track and report this stuff like it's not really something you can just give to a site EHS manager and expect them to be able to really handle. This is a more systematic thing and it's going to require a team and expertise and infrastructure and a lot of software and data management and all of that. It's a little, it's certainly new in that sense. And it's also new in the sense that there are certain different risks involved, like the risks from tracking and really reporting detailed disclosures of this stuff. That risk, of course, is not new in the more securities related area, but in the environmental area, I think it is.
Alex - 00:30:39:
Well, and again, I remember 10 years ago running a software company. And certainly cybersecurity was important, but not to the level of detail that we manage it today. You know, in starting this company, we had to tackle SOC 2 and GDPR. And we had to have a entirely new lens, you know, in our business to understand it because our our security risk. You know, is our client security risk. And I assume, at least from a software side of things, that's going to have to be a component of it. Because there's a big difference in the world between the Amazons and the Nike’s and the Lowenstein and mainstream business that has never done this. Never been subject to reporting on these types of things likely doesn't have the internal expertise to do it. Certainly could have the desire and a strong group of individuals within the business, but access to that data to be able to meet these reporting requirements and to work with somebody to assess that risk has got to be pretty anxiety-inducing challenge, I would imagine.
Zach - 00:31:48:
Yeah, for sure. But I think a lot of it is just new. But I think the key is to just start somewhere. I mean, of course, being educated on what the risks are and not overextending or over promising or overselling or whatever. But with that said, I think the key is to just start somewhere. You know, we like to talk about it's a journey. And you're not going to get it right. Like your first, a lot of people saying it's really true, like your first greenhouse gas emissions inventory is not going to be very satisfying. Or it might not be as accurate or complete as you want it to be. And you're just going to have to keep working on it. And we're even dealing with that on our own firm. I mean, we're having those discussions, but I think the key is to start.
Alex- 00:32:45:
Yeah, I think it's one of these situations where for a short window here, you get a participation trophy just by doing it. And then you can work from there, but there's still this, I think, fear, at least, that we hear from executives. You know, we hold ourselves to a standard that. If we do something, we do it really well. And fortunately or unfortunately, the most public models of these things are companies that do this really, really well. But it didn't, Patagonia didn't be Patagonia today, like in one day. Nike didn't get to the reporting that they have in one day. And the expectation isn't to be perfect. The expectation is to report. And like financials, I may not like, what my numbers say, but those are the numbers. And it gives me the tools and the visibility that I need to make improvements.
Zach - 00:33:37:
Absolutely. And also there's the issue of a lot of this really requires expertise from outside consultants or counsel or whomever. And right now, I think that demand is quickly outstripping the supply of that expertise and inevitability of how quickly things are moving and changing. I think just over time that will hopefully that gap will get filled in. But for now, you just have to do the best that you can. And I think people understand that, like the clients that are asking for this information. I don't think they realistically expect the data to be perfect for the first year or the first two years. But I think you'll also see, though, that improvement is pretty quick. And not as difficult as you might imagine.
Alex - 00:34:27:
Yeah, the trend that we've seen, and I'm curious if you've seen this as well, is obviously report and show where you are. Set out some goals to reduce. But now we're seeing assurance and audit. And so it's making sure that what you do, whether it's good or bad, is accurate. So it's not, are you the most or the least sustainable? It's is what you're saying representing to be true. And I imagine from the legal community, thinking about that and preparing for that and preparing clients for that is probably a level of detail that I think that businesses may not be as ready for or see coming.
Zach - 00:35:06:
Sure. And I mean, of course, assurance is something that's been around for a long time in the financial auditing world, but in this world, it's really new. And I think that brings back what I was just saying about the gap in expertise. And even the California law, for example, is going to require certain levels of assurance by a third party qualified provider fairly soon. And that's going to create a whole cottage industry of people who are trying to become those qualified verifiers for people. And the other interesting thing is, you know, again, just, just amplifying the whole expertise supply issue, to me, it seems like whomever is going to be helping you do the verification, of course, cannot be the same expert or consultant who's actually helping you track and develop the report of your missions, right? You know, you can't have someone verify their own work. I feel like that would be an ethical and a legal issue. So all that to say, there's really going to be a lot of demand for this type of expertise.
Alex - 00:36:20:
Well, and I know we're running close to the end on time, but what gives me, I think, excitement around this is the trusted advisors that the vast majority of businesses use their legal you know, their law firm, their accountants, their bankers. You know, these folks that help to support traditional businesses in challenging situations are rising to the challenge. You know, so folks like yourself are able to help. Your clients understand what to do and have, you know, decades of experience of helping other businesses do the same. I imagining if I'm a CPA, I'm thinking about this as a kind of a required practice area for me because I've got. Who better to do assurance? I've got the backing and the ability to do this. It could be a great business for me, but ultimately it's somebody that these businesses are going to lean on to be able to help. So I think it's going to be an exciting new chapter for the professional services industry. And it seems like a great opportunity to obviously, talk the talk and support your own clients that you have and who you report to, but also to really help them navigate a pretty tricky situation.
Zach - 00:37:34:
Absolutely. I mean, I think there's a role for everyone to play in this whole challenge of creating a more sustainable future. It's really an all hands on deck issue. It requires every area of expertise. I think lawyers are particularly well-positioned to help out with that, but it really, it. But for example, I can't. I don't know how to physically track and report someone's greenhouse gas emissions. I'm just a lawyer, right? So you need someone with real technical and sophisticated expertise on that kind of thing to help. So it's really multidisciplinary effort that's going to require a lot of different types of expertise and really everyone on the team.
Alex - 00:38:18:
Absolutely. Well, Zach, thank you so much for joining us today. And you have a lot going on, especially this time of year. Sincerely appreciate the conversation. The legal perspective on this is very interesting and particularly with California. This is something many people don't probably know applies to them yet. And so very excited about the conversation and sincerely appreciate you sharing what you know.
Zach - 00:38:42:
Yeah, of course. Thank you for the opportunity to highlight some of these issues from my legal perspective. It's great. Great talking to you.
Outro - 00:38:50:
Thank you, Zach, for joining us. And thank you for listening. If you like this show, be sure to leave a review and follow this podcast wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode. This podcast is powered by GreenPlaces. If you are looking to reduce your company's environmental impact and reach your sustainability goals, visit greenplaces.com to learn more. We'll talk with you next time on Open Source Sustainability.