EP 66: Global Unrest | Game Stop | ARKK | Upstart | Stock Options Strategies | Olive Invest

@AviNMash @AnthonyOhayon and @JoeySolitro are back to discuss Global Unrest, Gamestop, Upstart, and bringing back options trading.

0:00 - Global Unrest
2:00 - Trending Tickers: BTC, $ARKK, $XBI (bio)
6:00 - Upstart $UPST
10:00 Gamestop $GME
12:00 What is the state of Oil | Biden sends to India and China?
16:00 Fed Meeting | State of Economy
21:00 Options Strategies | How to trade in this market.

This Episode is brought to you by our Sponsors at StockTwits.com; the thoughts on this podcast are NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE and our own opinions for entertainment purposes only.

What is Pounding The Table: Stocks, Options, And Weekly Market News?

Pounding The Table A podcast by Avi Mash, Joey Solitro and Anthony Ohayon about The Stock Market, The Art of Options Trading. Each week we take a look at the news and interpret the impact on the financial markets. Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/poundingthetable/support

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to episode 66 of pounding the table and just like route 66. We are digesting the news all throughout the country and throughout the globe sharing our thoughts on all of the news and how it impacts the markets.

We had a pretty insane week.

All around on a global level. Sad news with the former Japanese prime minister Shinzo, Abe, was assassinated just yesterday, bringing even more pain to Japan. And across the pond, they're doing a complete overhaul with over 60 members of the British parliament.

Quit the government with the prime minister, Boris Johnson resigning also yesterday. Things are getting crazy in the Netherlands. If you guys just go on Twitter, Google, Netherlands, farmers, there's some things happening. Macedonia, Ecuador, Pakistan, all are having unrest and increased gas and food prices.

And Sri Lanka completely has collapsed. Their prime minister just came out and said the country's 100% bankrupt. So things are getting crazy to say the least. It's almost like the world needs a, a great reset, Tony.

Before we get started a huge shout out as always to our sponsors over at stock TWIs, our favorite place to see what is happening with our favorite ticker symbols. tons of fun banter, lots of great content. So come on over, join us in the conversation with stock quits.com and Tony.

We are starting off with crypto and gross stocks so I'll kick it to you for the trending tickers of the week. Let's get it. Avie, , always happy to be back. I feel like we're getting more and more in the lab all the time now, especially with Joey around. So very hype as always. Let's Kick it off with these training tickers though.

So Bitcoin, it's the top of the list of what was really being talked about this week. And I think it has a lot to do. You know, a couple different factors, I'd say SBF, , Sam Bankman for just coming in from FTX. And just, starting to just bail people out, he had 2 billion and something backstop he's like, yeah, we got another 2 billion.

And I'm sure he has more to throw into companies that are distressed, that he thinks are like in the long run gonna be, you know, sustainable, good companies. And he's like going up to people, turning away deals, just people knocking on his door all day long. I saw a really cool interview. So definitely talk about that later.

But I think that shows that the crypto space, like, has people finally defending it, whereas like in 20 17, 20 18, no one cared like nobody was there, but now you've got some bigger players here the narrative starts to shift in whoever is kind of controlling the power of the movement of the coins there.

We've got, 20 K level consistently being defended.

E's starting to bounce it, it hit those levels sub 1000 for E and sub 20 K I posted this chart like a few weeks back on pounding the table's handle.

I think I did it last week as well of arc. And it's just been holding up better while the rest of the general markets like get crushed. And you know, it's just been basing between this like 37 46 range. And this is the first week we started seeing like some actual breakouts over that and runs past that more than a couple cents that just wick back down 10% the same day mm-hmm and uh, a lot of the quality names, like a lot of the, so I'm glad we mentioned software like the last few weeks, because like, those are the first things that are starting to show that some names are acting stronger.

Not in no way saying bottom this bottom, that, but. Relative strength in a market like this is pretty telling, especially with the data we're gonna get into on the macro soon. I saw XBI was up 13%. I know she's got some bio tech in there, but what are her top holdings right now with Kathy? I've got Kathy's top holdings of art. K pulled up right now. So top 10 in order goes zoom, video, Tesla, Roku, CRISPR therapeutics, Teledoc, UiPath, exact sciences and tele therapeutics block vent Twilio.

So yeah, you could definitely see the genomics in there. So it plays kind of right into that XBI playbook, which is the spider ETF for biotech. And those top holdings go. I think it's, Novavax twist Biosciences, beam, therapeutics, fate therapeutics, and so on. So yeah, you know, the, the rebound in high growth tech has been somewhat nice and I don't even wanna call it a rebound, you know, this little bounce that we've been seeing late little bounce.

We we've been talking a lot, you know, these bear market rallies that are very common in these sustained downturns. So we've had, a couple good days. It feels like, I mean, even like a week or two of , seeing green more so than red, and that's been a nice change of pace that, you know, what we've seen since November, but, you know, even with the S P Y trending, you can see, yeah, people are, are trying to get excited and they want to be like, you know, we have, , reached a bottom and that's, you know, all I even hear on CBC people saying, oh, you know, was this a bottom?

Was this the bottom. And as much as I wanna say yes. And, and believe that we are gonna have this sustained rally, there's still so many factors working against us and you kind of notice some of the top of the show it's like . Global turmoil and just unrest , , across the globe.

That it's just not something where I can definitively say things are getting better.

And speaking of unrest, shareholders of upstart just got another string of bad news.

And another beat down as the company came out and released its second quarter 2022 preliminary unaudited financial results came out saying that they expect revenue of 228 million, which is significantly less than their previously guided revenue of 295 to 305 million. And it just kind of shows that even as rates are rising, you know, there could be less demand for, you know, the loans that they help origin.

It's just something, I guess they didn't know it was gonna be as bad as it gotten. And so they start saying inflation and recession fears have driven interest rates up and put banks in capital markets on cautious footing. Well, we all knew that. I think all of us have known that for a very long time. So I find it surprising that they were surprised by just how bad business has been of late.

, sorry, I didn't wanna cut you off I oh, no. You're what do they do, Joey?

Oh, the time that's so mean. Not for real though. What? I actually don't know what they do. Oh yeah, that, that was good. Okay. So upstart, essentially what they try to say is, you know, you're more than your credit score when it comes to trying to obtain a loan. So they have this.

Artificial intelligence based lending system that they, partner with, , credit unions and other smaller banks to basically use more than just a credit score or all these other factors that determine the credit worthiness of a person and try to match them with a loan, you know, someone that wouldn't usually get approved by say a traditional large bank.

Hmm. So one of the big things that came into question is it almost seems like, okay, so they're, , this software that is used by a credit union or small bank. Well, that's cool. It's almost like, you know, software as a service, very high margin, , nothing on the balance sheet, but then it came out, you know, some of these loans are actually held on their balance sheet and you could see this whole interview with, , Jim Kramer talking about up star, cuz he's followed it for a very long time.

. And even he's like, wow, I didn't know. Some of these were held on the balance sheet and you know, in, in tough times, It's the people that would be deemed on creditworthy that will not be repaying loans. So it comes to the question of how much of what they're holding. Does that mean that their partners did not wanna hold that debt?

There's all these variables that come in and all these questions that get asked, you know, like how toxic could this debt possibly be? Could it put their business at risk? And it's, it's just not a good look for, for a company that was such a high flyer. And you, you know, you kind of teased, you know, when it was upper three hundreds and, you know, everybody and anybody was buying it, even though they had no idea what it was.

And I think the, the best answer, you know, if you're ever chasing a trade and you don't know what a company does, just say like, listen, I'm chasing the momentum. You know, all I hear about is this stock everybody's talking about, like there there's a, a rationale behind chasing momentum where you don't have to know the ins and outs of a company.

It's not my style that I like to do. And I know certain people kind of get grilled for. Completely bombing a question or, you know, not being able to answer what a company does, but it's like, I wouldn't, you know, completely stamp the reputation by, you know, no, of course not. I'd go on that. Dude's yacht.

He's much richer than I am. So seems like a good dude. Yeah, exactly. He just handled it poorly. If he just said, dude, I don't know. I was chasing momentum is what it is like, that was the answer to give. Cause that's what he was doing. Oh, we we've all done it before.

I mean, I've owned countless stocks where I come back and I learn more about it. Especially the trade works out cuz you know, we all fall guilty to the never turn a trade into investment, but if it performs so well you, you just don't wanna let go. And then you kind of backpedal into it. Like, okay, well maybe I should learn what these guys do or maybe I should learn, why I should maybe wanna own this for the long term or why I was right.

Keep this as a trade and run away. Game stock. You know, they approved their four for one stock split, not entirely sure when that's coming up, but you know, it's just another move for them to.

You know, listen to the retail, , investor, they love stock splits. You know, they love, having these stocks go from, I think it's around 1 25 a share. So you divide that by four and that's gonna be the new share price post split. And so you see that they understand, you know, what these retail investors want.

They continue to give it to 'em. And so I know a lot of people knock, you know, how could you own game stop? It's like, you know, blockbuster back in the day, but it's not, you know, their financials aren't nearly as bad as blockbuster was. And it's funny. I, I know a lot of gamers and a lot of them say, you know, if you need something, you can't wait for Amazon to delivery.

Even if it's like, you know, you could get it same day by 10:00 PM or something like that. , they go to game stop, or they'll go to best buy to get it. So you could see stores. Tony loves game stop too. So like, you can see where these stores, could have some staying power and you know, it's not.

I think they actually have a decent business. And if they could figure out some way to become like, again, the go to for all gamers worldwide, then who knows what this company could actually do.

Can Netflix buy them or no, I mean, if they wanted to go into that, I dunno if they have enough, I got IVI. I have to break out this like crazy tin hat thread on game. Stop that like, I, someone on Twitter sent this to me and it's, and you talked about this a few weeks ago. I really gotta find it. Like, I'm gonna make a note right now to like, go look it up.

Cause it's actually one of the most obscene things ever. And we could just do an entire episode on it. Cause like it's pretty prediction of, , Elon Musk, fake buying Twitter or no, it, it it's been pretty spot on for like the last year. Man, I will say. And that was a good one. A if an, if a CEO wants a way to unload billions of dollars of a stock, they said that they would never sell, make an acquisition that then doesn't work out.

You sold all that stock and Hey, look at, look at Tesla after hours. Yeah. It's, it's funny. I mean, I don't think Elon would do that. Cause I think he, he literally like he wanted own that platform, especially to make sure like no one can influence the upcoming midterms or the election after that. All right guys, we gotta get back to stocks. Tony, what is going on with oil?

You were showing me some wild graphs before the show about the tenure. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different things going on right now. And like you're seeing it more so in like credit markets and you're seeing it in commodities a lot recently. So, you know, like we, it's not surprising to me at all that USO was trending on like stock TWIs.

USO is just basically like ETF four, if you wanna like play oil, you trade USO. but it leads me into this whole section. I wanna like have right now on data, cuz I think a lot of people are questioning. When are things gonna like get better? How can things get worse?

Like what are you looking at? Like I'm looking at yields number one, like the 10 year yield and like the five year and the, two year. And I'm looking at oil commodities just like in general. Like I want to make sure that the stuff that goes into things that lead into inflation in general and that's obviously commodities like to build stuff that you buy and do.

So that needs to start coming down for inflation, actually start coming down. Rates need to start coming down. And like you're seeing housing starting to be much more supplied across the country, which is another indicator that things were getting so out of price that people were not able , to afford to buy that house or get the mortgage at the rates for that house.

cause not everyone qualifies for those nice fixed mortgages. And if you've gotta fixed mortgage right now, like you probably want a variable if you're trying to get a mortgage right now. So it's a lot of different factors right now that all lead into inflation and that's like, what everyone's watching and people are usually waiting for things to get better when the fed comes out and it's like, okay, we're gonna ease or okay, like we're done tapering and this and that.

Those are important things to consider for sure. But the Fed's gonna make those decisions based off of data. So like I've been watching the data more and more as yields go lower, like rates go lower oil and other commodities don't go higher from here.

Like it'll definitely have a lag commodities, always do. And we'll see how that goes. But you know, as long as they don't continue to just stay way. In general, just watching big markets, like real estate, cuz it looks like the crashes are going through cycles. Right? Like it went from the riskiest asset back in February of last year.

Now housing's starting to get hit across the country.

Speaking of housing a few weeks ago, we were talking about Michael burry. He's back at it, tweeting again about the housing markets.

What does this bullish ripper or bull whip effect you were talking about? Yeah, I mean, brewery's coming out now, like he's saying a lot of different things. He's deactivating his Twitter every other day, but gotta give man's credit where it's due. Like he did good in 2008 and he's, you know, done pretty good in the last like six to 12 months.

And so, you know, knowing him as like a big macro follower and he, like, he definitely gets in the weeds. Like I listen to what he says, cuz you just, you never know. You wanna know what the dude who was one of the only people who called the housing crisis, , and profited a lot from it. What he's thinking.

So he is talking about this like bowl of effect and that's basically like the deflationary effects of retail holding way too much inventory. And so prices start to just cascade lower, right? Like people buy so many things cuz they're selling at such high prices. People. Not able to afford those things, cuz prices go.

So high stores get inventory stores have to cut prices and things just like find a natural market in the conditions of the world. Right? Like time heals, all things. Usually if things don't get a hundred percent bad. So he was kind of saying that he thinks inflation's gonna chill, but I also saw tweet like two weeks ago, he was like, inflation's going to explode and be just like a long term factor.

And I could see that in like the fact of what I was saying with commodities of them being a lagging effect. Right? Like it takes time for those prices to start like showing lower. Um, but the fed ones again, will continue to watch that. And I think that like the data will have to show a few times of, of positive trend before the fed says anything.

Cause if they just come out and they're like, oh yeah, like things are good. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Like we're not gonna taper. We'll just do passive. And like, yeah, we'll still net buy stuff. People are gonna be like, what the fuck are you doing? It has to be this way.

It has to be because we see this happening in the data. We will now act this. And, , they've done a great job of demand destruction, crashing it. Every single time things are ripping and using those rallies to continue to be more hawkish. And I think that markets are going to figure themselves out in the next three months and bottom will come before the fed does anything.

Joey, I'd love to hear your thoughts too. More of kind of like the investor side of things. And, and I'm super excited, Tony, to jump into options, training again, because as we used to say, we're a stock options and, and news podcast, and we kind of left out the, options piece.

So incorporating that a lot more, but how do you look at these fed meetings? , do you look at 'em with as much diligence as Tony does

I mean, I'm always paying attention. , I always like to see. I'm more interested in the actual meeting that you can, you know, listen in on and hear the commentary, hear what these people are saying, you know, what their outlook is, and , what they see as like the major factors on the horizon for the economy.

It's almost been comical because they couldn't be more wrong for like, or wrong, or like six months straight. Now, I think Tony touched on this, you know, every inflation with transitory was like the huge thing for the longest time. And, you know, just how, how their commentary changes, how the stance change overnight, where it's like, in no way is 75 basis points even on the table.

And then the next meeting we're up 75 basis points. There it is. It's just, you know, I, I would like to say, you know, I, I, I trust a lot of the people that run, you know, certain, I guess, large branches of government or, you know, the fed and all this stuff. I'd like to say we've got like the smartest people at the helm.

And I just, I have zero confidence in like all leadership. It's just insane. Billy, come on over the tin hat, bill, man. It's not, it's not even, it's not even a tin hat thing. It's just observations. Yeah. And just like, that's fair enough. And just like throwing logic, like, what are we doing? Oh, what are we doing, guys?

What are we doing? You said California. California's like, yeah, inflation's bad. Here's money, bro. What? , they're confusing people on purpose. It's chaos. It's like, yeah. So inflation is an issue cuz you know, money just continues to get printed while other issues are going on. So what are we? Hey, let's print money and just give it to people.

That'll make inflation better. It's kinda like. You know, the, the little stimulus checks during what they call stims during the pandemic. It's like, Hey yeah, businesses are shutting down left and right. You know, people losing their jobs, but Hey, here's 1200 bucks like, oh yeah. Right. That makes it better. Um, so I mean, it's, we're using bandaids and false.

Yeah. Not even like false promises, but just. Misguided commentary and yeah, it it's sad to watch. I just can't wait for, you know, things to improve and these people to slowly get replaced. Maybe with someone that people could have more confidence in, but at this point I'm just kinda like how much worse could they really make it?

Think it's an important thing to think about. It's like, and it's not even a right or left thing. It's like, everyone's more middle than we think we are. Well, yeah. And so like, I mean, I've said before I voted both sides, so this is not a political stance. This is not like an anti either side. I've literally voted both parties and you know, , it's not a politics thing. It's just a logic party.

I thought we were talking about the fed. As it all comes back to I did, we started talking, we were talking about the No, it's not. It's because you think it's connected so much. It is trickle on there's the puppet tears and the puppets dude.

Dude should have fucking dropped the oil reserve six months ago. That's number one. Now we just like, let's just give it away, which is like terrible.

Almost like a final nail in the coffin, you know, getting, I guess, away from the fed back to even like the administration, we were talking about, you know, rising oil prices, food prices, really causing unrest around the globe.

And you know, when oil was just, , in the dumps, we had our strategic reserves basically, , filled to the gills with this very cheap oil. And so that's one of the things, you know, like releasing oil from the strategic reserves and that could help slowly bring down the price. And, those are strategic reserves, you know, supposed to.

Our country. And I saw a report where, you know, a third of the oil that's being released from, the us strategic reserves. I'm gonna say that over and over being sold to China and India. And I'm thinking I get that, keeping the global supply going helps keep global prices down. But then I go back to, Hey, just Google, what's the point, or like behind us strategic reserves.

And it's not to, profit off of, buying oil, very low, selling it very high to these nations. And then I even think of, you know, the little thing that we could all do is, India has been consistently buying Russian oil because, you know, they don't have any restrictions to do so. And that helps, you know, fund totally though, that helps fund things that are going on over in Russian, but then it's almost like we are turning a blind eye of that and saying, well, Hey, buy our oil too.

It's just a lot of things that just have stacked up. Makes me just kind of, , and I'm 32 years old. I I'm, by no way, like, I guess in depth, in all things, politics, economy and all this stuff, but just from , I guess an American standpoint, or just like a human being, I'm just kinda like, what, what are we doing here?

Right. If you take a step back and then just like, go on Twitter, like Twitter is the problem too, is you just see all the extreme shit that happens. Right. But you see it more and more and more. And now it's just like, I agree. You gotta take a step back. We need a logic party in place. All right on the options trading it comes down to investing versus trading and you're more of a trader and people say there's traders markets out there.

I didn't know what that meant. Traders market. I mean, . There's a trending market and a trading market where there's like a lot of volatility, things usually when they trend up, it's , not that much volatility. Options are cheap, so you can make money off smaller moves.

But like now there's huge moves and options. Like the VIX is not where it should be for how crazy things are. So , you're getting pretty good risk reward on trading around. Take a step back the VX. So the VIX is, you're saying volatility. So that's just when people, a lot of people are buying, a lot of people are selling and if that's happening, then the VX is gonna be higher. why is everybody talking about Vic's vapor rub yeah, . I kept thinking, Michael Vick the whole time. This is not the football player. Michael Vick. This is something else. The vs

It's literally a volatility index and it's just based on risk and fear. Like when people buy their hedges, they buy puts, they give more premium to it. So the VX is worth more like when people buy a lot of options, they're hedging one way or another. So they're expecting a lot of volatility. So the VIX goes up and like, it's just acting weird.

You would expect it to be higher. I mean, the big takeaway from this is so like high volatility, high VIX consider the VIX. Just meaning the word volatility when the VIX is high, that means that there's like unusually high fear in the market. And you think the last six months, like everybody's talking about freaking recession, depression, all this stuff, like fear should be at its high in, in the volatility mix does not reflect.

It's like we've had the VIX higher. In like normal 10% pullbacks, which it is just, it's crazy. So funny. I just thought the whole time you were gonna create that into a joke about Vic's paper rub.

Again, I was just waiting for you to do it, but you were serious. All right. Let's get back to business boys

Joe, I loved what you were saying earlier about like how you could still participate in the market while reducing your risk profile while still having some upside. Right. Some growth potential there for me. I, I have a nine to five. Right. And what I. Tried to do was weekly lottos, and I just kept getting wrecked over and over again.

So I realized, you know, that's not my game personally. I'm more of a beach stock guy, you know, I want to just set and forget and not really look at it. So I started playing some leaps, Tony, which you kind of helped me get into and understand different types of options. I was looking into like straddles.

So I've been looking online just for various, you know, different tools to teach me, to watch a bunch of YouTubes. I found this app called olive invest. That's really cool. That started to teach me, understand how to minimize the downside while still being able to have some upside I'm still playing around.

They have like a really cool sandbox that you can paper trade in, but. Before I go like live with it. I still wanna learn. I think other people wanna learn too, besides just a traditional call and put, which hopefully most people know at this point from listening to the podcast, but dive in a little bit deeper and, and touch on some of these like straddles and these other, strategies you've been using Tony to allow yourself to minimize how much you can lose,

, there's a lot of different strategies you can do with options.

I guess I wanna start out by talking about the easiest ones to do the ones that are least risk, because there are things that you already own. Like, I think a lot of people benefit in really, you know, good market times from writing cover calls. And even in these like really volatile times, you can get really good premium on cover calls and that's like really, to your point of each stocks, like that's a good start for.

People who are looking to get into options because, you know, as opposed to taking the be, you know, you're the one that's giving the bet out. . So using the analogy of, sports betting, right? If the Yankees who have won whatever 65 games or something so far, they're crushing it, like. If they're playing some crap team they're gonna be at in sports terms, like a minus 800.

Bringing this back to stocks, like looking at Amazon it's at one 15, you know, the chances that it gets to 200 by August is insane, right? And so you're probably paying nothing, in terms of premium,

Whereas like, if you wanted to bet that by the end of August, it's gonna be at one 16. You're gonna be paying a much higher premium, ? Exactly. Yeah. You'll pay way more there because it's just like the closer you get to the price and it's, it's, it's a multidimensional vector.

Once again, all of life is you've got the price where the be starts being, right. Which is the strike. And you have the price premium, like's the cost of the option. And then you have the, , time that is left on that be. So if you add those all, all together, like that's the price that you're paying

All right. Tony, we're trying to get away from the betting, right? I know anytime you put money into the market, when you're just buying individual stock, obviously that, that is effectively a, a bet, right?

You're taking the gamble on a particular stock. As I get older, my risk profile is also shifting. So I'd like to mitigate that risk, you know, on the downside. If I wanna like, look at this more of an investment, I know that there's different ways to play options that can kind of mitigate some of that downside risk.

Yeah. So I mean, we'll start out by like the most basic thing, which we were just mentioning cover calls where it's, where you own a hundred shares outright and every option's. The equivalent of 100 shares of that stock. So for example, you have like a hundred shares of apple you can write a call at one 50, which is like, I'm gonna own my shares, but I'm gonna rent them out to you. You only get them once they go over one 50. If I want you to have them, I can always buy my call back.

So I'm basically shorting that price over one 50, capping my upside, but you're paying me to do. That's like, you know, if you think about like a hundred shares being basically one call, you can just replace that hundred shares for an another, like, call that you buy instead of short. So like a good strategy that I do, like just going through that and like first principles down.

Like I like to, especially in times, like these look for things that are a year, a year and a half out, but with that amount of time, right? Like it's a multidimensional vector. You're gonna have. Find a way to make that cost lower, because like your, your downside is like a hundred percent on that option, right?

It's just the way they could be crumbles. But if you consider it, like I could buy a hundred shares of apple for 14,000, or I can buy an apple leap for a thousand. And the only difference is like, I miss a little bit on the upside, but I miss 90% of the downside. If I effectively in my head think that one option is 100 shares.

So I'll buy one option instead of 100 shares. I'm like, I'm looking out like a year, a year and a. And at the same time, because there's so much time and there's so many earnings in between, God knows what news is gonna happen. So like Amazon, like a perfect example. I be like, you were just saying, you know, it's at one 15 or whatever.

If you buy the August two hundreds, like that's so far away, like people are shorting. People are selling calls like that. They they'll they'll like get money every week by having someone else. 1 51 61, 71, 8200. And they're taking in the money from those beds dying because they own the shares. Like you rent that out and those people get the exposure over those prices.

And so if you look at like a leap, like if you wanna take the upside without owning the shares, you could effectively just buy one leap for Amazon. Like I bought a couple , One 20 fives for September 20, 23, when it was like sub one 10, and then it went up a little bit. So I was like, okay, my leaps are up.

I wanna like reduce my exposure to that position because each of mys is a hundred shares of Amazon, right? Like I think I paid $12 for mys Amazon. Would've been 11,000 to have the same exposure once the prices cross that strike minus the premium. So I shorted some, two hundreds that far out because I'm like, I can get two, three bucks or whatever.

Off my initial cost and I still have all the upside between 1 25 and 200. So 7,500 from 1200, I put in minus what I just shorted. So it's like 900 to 7,500. By that time. Not saying that that will happen at all, but like that's the math profile of it.

I always like to err on the side of CA downside mm-hmm and you can reduce whatever on the upside as well. So like that those are ways that people can make constructive strategies that can be the equivalent of a hundred shares, you know, in whatever amount you choose to do that strategy.

But it's just that something to think about, especially in like this time, like I'm looking. Little further for different plays that like might not be good right now, but in six to 12 months could be just like, you'll look back and say, like, these are some interesting risk rewards back. Yeah, I think I, we gotta do a video of this cause I'm, I'm such a visual learner.

I understood about 70 to 12% of what, what you just said. So I definitely need to see a video of this and, well, that's why I, I did, like, I gotta show you this app at some point too. Just all app, like does a really good job of visualizing this we should definitely do like a YouTube to really explain this, cuz I think I need visualizations for sure. Yeah. This analogy I was thinking about is almost like owning a duplex where you're like you buy the duplex. Right. But then you're also kind of getting paid to someone you're renting out the other side of the duplex.

So you're getting paid while you're paying off the mortgage in a sense. So you're yeah. Also getting money inflows. From owning and getting the rent from these other individuals. But at the same time you're paying, I don't know if that's the best analogy, but , that's kinda, it's a good analogy. I mean like, like with owning the shares, you own the shares, there's no mortgage.

Like if you have a leap, it's like, you have, you know, like someone's letting you borrow it for X amount of time. So it's like, it, it, it could be seen as that hobby. I'll let you. Joey, do you do any options at all? I know you're more of an investor, but I don't know if you touched, uh, just here and there.

So, you know, years ago I used to, you used the very simple process of selling puts and the one I would always be trading this was back in, it might have been like 20 16, 20 17, 20 18. I would be selling foots on Tesla. And, um, I mean, it was an easy way to just, you know, generate this income. I did the same thing with like Panera.

Chipotle, you know, these different, different socks that just made sense. And the valuations weren't too absurd now, Tesla, that that was a different beast. When I, it comes to the valuation, for instance, you know, that's back when they were losing money, but it was just this highly volatile name that I wanted to own it under a certain price anyways.

So just selling the put and I was like, I'd wanna buy it here anyways. So it makes. And I don't think any of those ever fell to the actual strike price. So I was just generating that income. So I need to hop in Joey, that what you said there is the most crucial part about all of this. I want to own it at that price.

So I'm okay. Collecting money until it gets there. Still think that it's like only a strategy where like, oh, I have shares. I might as well do this, but like you've seen stocks can go down 50 to 70%, but if that's the price that you had to limit, buy for. Might as well do your strategy. Well, and that was, that was like my thinking back then.

And it's another thing I need to look into now just because I haven't done that a long time and stocks are at such low levels that, and there's so many at such attractive valuations that I would want to own, a little bit lower. So, you know, I do think I need to be more active on that front, but yeah, I, I like to keep it very simple.

You know, the old acronym kiss, keep it simple, stupid. It's one of those where, when you're talking about calls and puts and all this stuff, you've got, you gotta figure out the time constraints, the implied volatility, all these other factors that I really don't want to, I guess, take all the time to educate myself on that because, you know, I have a strategy that I I'm enjoy and I think I'm kind of good at, so I wanna stick to what I know, but again, it's one of those where, you know, back at this time, I was, you know, I wanted my position on Tesla.

I wanted my position on these certain. But I didn't want them where they were. So I'd always take the approach. Well, if it fell to this, I would definitely be buying. So say back then Tesla was at, I don't know, two 50 and I put it at like 200 you know, you're collecting 12 bucks on that. I was like, well, at, at that point, you know, if it fell to 180 8, I'd definitely be buying anyways.

So, right. , it, it was one of those just very easy strategies for me. And I think that's actually where Tesla was back then when I was doing these. But, but no, I guess my answer would be, I'm not that active. I, I used to do a little bit of it, but it is something I, I need to look more into just especially like Tony was saying, you know, just to generate that extra income.

Yeah. I totally see that Joey. And like there there's another, I think part of it that kind of get. Pushed away in the weeds of the, the volatility and the risks associated. This notion of people think it's like very risky and, and like super difficult to like, get your head around. But there's also this idea of like, let's say the market's crashed 50% more, let's say right now you're a hundred percent invested.

If you take that a hundred percent, sell it all and figure out like an optimal strategy for the next year and a half or so with 15% to 20% of your cash that ends up giving you the same result. If these prices of these stocks go to X price. that's something to be said for maybe that's less risky actually than what , than what people are doing.

We gotta start doing YouTube. So I'll probably hit the gym to make sure I look all fresh it's Saturday here. Now you wanna go to the beach? I also wanna go to the beach, Joey. I know it's raining where you are, so you'll be inside all day, but we got a, a decent, uh, week here of, of earnings coming up on Tuesday. We got PepsiCo. Wednesday, we got Delta before the open, Thursday and Friday starting to get into some other financials.

We got Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan. , and then Friday United health group. We actually probably should have talked about that. They they've been ripping. , recently that's gonna be before the open with Wells Fargo, Citibank, progressive insurance, BlackRock, Tony, your favorite uh, and PNC us bank Corp, BNY Mellon and state street.

A lot of financials this week. I don't know if you've seen any trends either of you guys, when earnings come out for financials. I think you're gonna just see that be more a result of like where fed and rates go. Like I've I have no idea how their earnings are gonna play right now, because , it's gonna be not just about what they've done for the last three months more about their guides for where everything's gonna go.

It's funny. Banks are the ones that are supposed to be benefiting the most from rising rates. And I think like, you know, every time we've seen these settle rate hikes, they're like, oh, Financial's gonna benefit greatly from this, but they haven't performed all that well. So I think people really look into the JP Morgan report , for quotes from Jamie diamond, cuz he's.

I mean, I think he's the most knowledgeable person, you know, in the finance, , industry than anybody at the fed, anybody, you know, in any administration like uncle Jamie knows more than all of them combined. It seems like. So I think I'm most interested to hear commentary from him, but yeah, the, the big banks always kind of kick off earning season and I know it feels like it, it just wrapped up, you know, a month or two ago because you know, the big tech names usually follow, you know, the month after the bank.

I'd look for the commentary regarding, you know, the overall stability of the economy looked for, you know, any commentary on what he thinks about like the recession and, you know, he probably thinks we're already in one, like a lot of us would do. So I think that's the most important to come from this.

No one is all knowing. No one knows everything. So I, I like to pinpoint what you want to hear from someone or like, you know, where they've actually been accurate in the past and take some of that. But. Also, you know, Jamie diamond is not a specialist in crypto, blockchain, web three, all that.

So when he was, essentially crapping on it for the longest time, I'd defer to someone that, you know, knows these industries a little bit better than he would. So like a mark Andre, like we talked about before, or these other guys that have been, you know, very successful in certain areas of technology that are, you know, spearheading the next.

Pillars of, of technology and all that. So yeah, it's almost like, you know, know someone's strengths when you're asking their opinion. It's kinda like, you know, if, if you're playing a certain sport, you wanna learn a baseball swing from someone that's played baseball, not a professional basketball player. All right, guys, we're gonna wrap this show up.

Huge. Shout out again to stock TWITS. Check us [e-mail]. Join us on the conversation, Tony. You're smiling over there. . Give everyone pound nation a nice little sendoff for the weekend here. I got two words for you. So Laura Camry, perfect way to end it.

We'll see you guys here back next week. Have a great week everyone. And remember to pound that table.