The WP Minute+

I’ve been skeptical about the AI tools I see emerging in my Twitter feed.
So many of my WordPress friends are using these tools to code, write articles, build websites, and even develop their own AI products. But I’ve been struggling to catch on. Until I saw a thread from Kim Coleman in Post Status about her success with better prompts in ChatGPT.
So like any podcasters would do — I invited her on the show to learn more.

The Right Prompts Unlock AI’s Potential

Both Matt and Kim initially struggled to get good results from ChatGPT and similar AI tools. They found the content too generic and not helpful for their WordPress needs. The breakthrough came when they learned to craft detailed, structured prompts to give the AI more context. Instead of just saying “summarize this blog post,” they give background like: “You are an expert WordPress content creator. Summarize this blog post in a conversational tone for our podcast listeners.” Kim shares prompts she uses to turn video transcripts into step-by-step tutorials, and to turn technical changelog notes into readable blog posts. Carefully shaping the prompt helps the AI stay on track.

Trying New AI Tools Yields Mixed Results

Matt has had more success using instead of ChatGPT to generate show notes by giving it two separate interview transcripts. The key is uploading both transcripts at once so the AI doesn’t confuse information between interviews. Kim experimented with some tools like ContentScale and others where you fill out forms instead of chatting. She didn’t find these as effective as crafting her own prompts in a chat interface. They agree that graphic and video AI tools like Midjourney are not yet ready for marketing assets, though they see potential in the future.

AI’s Role in WordPress’ Future

There is some debate around integrating AI directly into WordPress products. If it’s just a basic tool that pastes in text, it may not add much value and could even backfire if it provides bad results. More complex integrations like LifterLMS using AI as a “coach” to guide course creation show more promise. This takes into account the human goals instead of just spitting out generic content. Matt and Kim agree responsible humans are still needed to oversee AI tools, but they will likely continue shaping parts of the WordPress workflow. Using the right prompts unlocks the benefits while avoiding potential downsides.

Important links

Here are the important links we mention throughout the conversation:
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What is The WP Minute+?

For long-form interviews, news, and commentary about the WordPress ecosystem. This is the companion show to The WP Minute, your favorite 5-minutes of WordPress news every week.

[00:00:00] Matt: Today we are chatting about ai. I saw you had, an exceptional thread over at post status. I was like, Hmm. Ken's using ai. she is seemingly finding some success with it. I was just saying before we hit record, I'm coming out of the skepticism phase. I have a chat, foolishly, I have a chat.

[00:00:21] Matt: G P T. Pro account or whatever they call it, I pay for it. . In hopes that it would be a better system for me. So many things I use it for just fails. I, it certainly doesn't know the inside baseball about WordPress, WordPress community. It looks at WordPress from like these massively broad brush strokes of, it's a C M S.

[00:00:42] Matt: It can make a website, and it doesn't know anything else about the underpinnings of WordPress. So it's really hard for me to use it in my day-to-day role here. And summarizing things. Okay. Like it was working all right for me. But I see threads of people, or tons of people creating threads on Twitter.

[00:01:01] Matt: Oh God, it's saving me hours. I couldn't live without it. I would pay anything for it. And I'm like, really? I can't. So, Kim, what are you using it for? ? How is it working out for you?

[00:01:12] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Yeah, I think I'll, I'll say that I was also skeptical and, and because I was using it, I think in the wrong way, I was expecting to give it very little guidance and get the output I wanted. So I think the biggest lesson I've learned is, is all about shaping what I'm asking for in a more structured way.

[00:01:32] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: and, and some pieces that I'll, I'll get into a little later, but I . I'm using AI in a lot of ways. one of my favorites is taking a transcript from a video tutorial that I record, and I have a structured prompt that converts that transcript into like step-by-step how to, that I can use in a companion blog post.

[00:01:51] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So I think some people, do really well writing that blog post content first and then using it to influence a recording or, or a how to video for YouTube. But I really find like I can record many . How to videos in a day, dump all the transcripts into my chat, G P T, using my special prompt and get pretty close to a complete

[00:02:10] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Tutorial for, for my blog, which is really a huge time saver. so I, I think that's one of my favorites. I'm also using it for, our change logs for big plug and releases. So when we have a big plug and release, we have a change log with categorized items like enhancements. Features, bug fixes, security patches, new things, and I'm dumping that full change.

[00:02:31] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Log into chat g p t with a prompt that I've kind of massaged a little bit, and I'm saying make this human readable. Write this into kind of marketing copy that takes that bulleted list of things people don't understand, like hooks and filters. Put them into groups and give me a structured blog post back with headings and the items that make sense in a way that anyone could understand that isn't comfortable reading change logs.

[00:02:55] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So those are two of the ways I can dig into more. or you can just say how you feel about what I've just

[00:02:59] Matt: [00:03:00] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:00] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: the magic.

[00:03:01] Matt: So, so after I read what you had posted in, in post status, slack, sort of these structured prompts, it, it, it was, when I saw what you did, I was like, oh, and I don't, so thank you for this, but , I don't know if it's just, I never had come across. I was, I, I guess I've been so deflated by the experience that I never started to dig deeper because I'm like, I can't understand why people are loving this so much.

[00:03:25] Matt: So I would say things like . , summarize this transcript for me. Summarize this transcript for me. That's exactly, so all I would say, I would just, all I would do, and I was like, this sucks. . What you've given me is terrible. And then I saw what you were posting and your prompt was, literally prompting it with mu, which with much more understanding on of the topic.

[00:03:45] Matt: You were probably giving it maybe a little bit more information than I was like, this is a WordPress podcast. You should think about it this way. And it, it all starts to dawn on me like, oh yeah, like if I gave that . Task to a human and just said, transcribe this or summarize this for me. They would do the same thing.

[00:04:03] Matt: They'd just be like, okay, I listened to it. Here it is. When did you start to like come across better prompting and, and what's your logic behind that?

[00:04:12] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Yeah. I hate to mention Jason because I am my own individual person, but, Jason did his, college thesis, actually his computer science thesis on large language models, and this is like 2004.

[00:04:24] Matt: I was just about to say like

[00:04:26] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Yeah, like before any of this, right? We are. On the north side of 40 now, right? well, no, not the north side.

[00:04:33] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I guess crossing over into 40 now. So yeah, a long time before tools like chat, G P T and AI was even a conceptual household thing. And he always used a term like hypnotize the ai, which is weird to think of, but it is like a psychological game. And that is where these prompts and the strength of these prompts come from because a lot of it is saying

[00:04:55] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Who are you when you respond to me and put yourself in that mindset when you, yourself itself, in that mindset, when you reply to me and when you think of it that way, like you said, that's why these prompts are long, but they're also structured in a way that says, before you do anything, put on this costume of an expert WordPress podcaster and use that tone, use that language from all the things that you've studied out there on the internet up until the date that they cut you off.

[00:05:24] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So, yeah, the prompts, Really always start with that. And I think that's what makes them strong. I did purchase from a company called Maker Box a 40 Marketing Prompts Suite. I think it was $40 on Product Hunt. And I've loved using it because it's not only useful as is with the prompts, but it's also repurposable.

[00:05:41] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: They have ones like do keyword research for me and it's very broad stroke. Like do keyword research about a WordPress membership plugin. And you can take that deeper. You can say, . Do keyword research about a WordPress fitness e-learning site for yoga teachers, and using a membership component to sell subscriptions online.

[00:05:59] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So that's that [00:06:00] hypnotism part and that prompt part, looking at other people's prompts, crafting and tweaking them a little bit to get even deeper and even more specific.

[00:06:07] Matt: Yeah, it, I think, and one of the things I might struggle with is, The way that, chat g p t is just how it's built out, how like the user interface is because it's very much, unless I'm missing something and maybe, maybe I am missing something and, and the magic trick, but I just feel like every time you start a new chat, it is you, you have to retrain it.

[00:06:31] Matt: You have to bring those prompts in. Now I guess you could repurpose those same chats from the past, but I think visually chat, G P T isn't set up that, so like a list on the left, and if you're using it for a bunch of other things, it's like, okay, that chat that you had, like you can't really tag it or.

[00:06:48] Matt: Color code it and say like, this is the one I always or star it that says, this is the one I always want to use for my KB articles after I record a video and just cycle through. I think that's where I'm really struggling with. Is there a secret to that or is like you just know I have to scroll down to when I had this conversation with it a month ago and use that one again.

[00:07:09] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I, I do do that, but I also take the prompts that I find are most successful and I store, we use GitBook for like, kind of internal handbook stuff. the Notion board was what those, maker box prompts were delivered to me in. So if you're a notion lover, if you even use Slack and just put things in your Saved for later Slack, then they become immediately accessible to you when you start a new chat.

[00:07:29] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I've definitely started a new chat copied from a previous one. They're often multi-step, which I think we should talk about a little bit as well, because dumping a prompt in dumping a request in and expecting, the final product to be the next reply isn't what you're gonna get. You actually have to imagine you're chatting with a team member.

[00:07:47] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Imagine you're chatting with a human being that you get to really boss around to an extent. I know people post those things, like I, I say thank you to the ai so when they take us over, they know that I was a, a kind person. And it's funny. But you can't help but naturally, use kind language when you get something from, someone that you're in chat with.

[00:08:06] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So it is natural to say like, Hey, thanks. That really hit, hit on the spot of what I was looking for. And then chat chit will write back like, oh, I'm glad I could help. I'm glad I, I could help you. If you need anything else, let me know. And it does become a little more natural when you get to chatting

[00:08:20] Matt: so I did, so yeah, let, let's talk about the multi-step, . Scenario because yes, it's not just get the result and, and then be sort of fed up with it. Like, like I was recently, I'm trying to, I'm trying to find it right now as we are chatting. I, I found another AI tool, which I'll, which I'll talk about in a moment, but, chat G B T I ran it through and I said, give me, so I copied and pasted here.

[00:08:46] Matt: Let me take a step back. Here's the other thing that I've been frustrated with, until recently, I would say, yeah, write me all these people. Like, oh, all your, all you content writers are gonna be out of business. you, you're gonna be outta business because [00:09:00] AI's gonna write the blog post for you. And if I said, write a blog post about paid me, let's say paid memberships pro, write it, analyze it and talk about how it's the leading, freemium,

[00:09:13] Matt: membership plugin for WordPress, it would just give me the generics and it wouldn't even be in my tone, right? Because if you read a generic piece for me, you'd be like, you're lying. That's not Matt, because Matt is very critical number one, and, and Matt knows more than AI about the WordPress space and who the owners are and why that matters, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:09:34] Matt: So what I did do the other day was . take three pieces of blog posts that I wrote myself, 800 words or more, and I said, analyze these three blog posts. I forget what I used. I said, create the descriptors for this. and what it did is it analyzed, it found the tone of the blog post. Posts. And then I said, using those descriptors, now write me a blog post.

[00:10:00] Matt: I forget what I was ta talking about. It was probably about podcasting. It wasn't about WordPress. And I said, now write me a post about the podcasting industry in that same tone. And then it was much closer to me. 'cause otherwise it's just, it was just a generic. piece of text, and that was a multi-step process.

[00:10:17] Matt: I mean, I was in there for a while, like pasting and going back and forth. what does that multi-step process, look like for you and, and what else are you pulling in to that scenario?

[00:10:27] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Yeah. I, one thing I've, I'm doing, and I appreciate about the multi-step process is like, write me a blog post is getting you to the end game maybe before . Exchange with the AI is ready because of that tone, but also because of your intentions for the, for the blog post. So I think always beginning with, if you're doing, let's say your, your scenarios, you want it to write a blog post for you.

[00:10:49] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I do the keyword research in advance, and then I begin by asking for an outline and I make sure that I'm getting the structure I want . The sections that I want before we go into the write it for me stage. And I think that really helps because when you get that final piece, then I, I think most of your exchanges after that point are, okay, let's refine what you wrote. That's why it sounds artificial. That's why it doesn't sound thought through by a person who's an expert on the topic that they're, having that article written about. I'll also say that I, I use it for things that are facts and not opinions in the article, so I use it more for, what is a WordPress.

[00:11:27] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I just wrote one with AI based on a tutorial, you can password protect pages or posts in WordPress every since the beginning of WordPress. You could set a status as password protected and set a password on a post. So I wanted chat G P T to kind of explain, I. To people, what is password protecting a post in WordPress?

[00:11:44] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: And it's facts like there's no flourish to that. It's not an opinion piece. It's not pulling information like maybe, maybe do this. So it's stronger at things that, that won't have opinion in them. For sure. So starting with outline,

[00:11:57] Matt: is a hundred percent of my writings.

[00:11:59] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: [00:12:00] Yeah. That's probably a, a piece of

[00:12:01] Matt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

[00:12:03] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: you because commentary is

[00:12:05] Matt: Right, right. chat g p t Now, are you getting into, and have you found any differences between chappy, G b, BT 3.5 versus 4.0 and. And do you have a preference? Like have you, have you gone that far?

[00:12:19] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I actually prefer each for different things, which is interesting. four, four is a more advanced models, but it tends to be a lot more verbose, a lot more creative, and, and it needs more guidance, especially when you want very specific, succinct. Replies. So one thing I do, I take blog posts that we've published or haven't even published yet that are just queued up and I dump the contents in with a prompt that I have to turn it into an email newsletter.

[00:12:46] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Chat. GT four is really poor at this. It uses too much creative language. It, it goes too far. It's almost a little like, wacky when it writes back. I'm like, hold on, hold on. stop with these weird analogies, stop with these weird kind of phrases in your thing. But I go back to 3.5 for that. I'm also a, a chat GT premium or whatever user, so I use my prompt in the old model for that because it's, it's just much, more straightforward, which is what I want my email to sound like.

[00:13:14] Matt: Yeah. Do you use anything that accesses ? The, the web with 4.0. 'cause I tried same thing, like they, oh, I mean, I listened to these other podcasts and they're like, oh, it said changing the world, like it's accessing the web and now it can summarize this stuff for you. and then I tried it and it was like a plugin from another like summary tool service.

[00:13:36] Matt: And even that was just like mediocre at best. And I was like, I could have just read this quickly and saw this, figured out what you figured out. anyway. Do you use anything that accesses the web with 4.0?

[00:13:47] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I haven't, I haven't used anything that accesses the web. I have given it the dump of other people's content, and I've said like, why is this ranking well, in your opinion, what do you think about this piece is I tweeted today that, I'm rewriting an article that every WordPress blog, every WordPress plug and site has was about the 500 server error.

[00:14:06] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I was like, I can't like link to WP Beginner. 'cause then what if they get down this rabbit hole and then they're like, use member press. Don't use paid memberships pro. So like I have this kind of like challenge as a product company now that I can't really link to WP Beginner pretty openly. I can and we do, but at the same time it's, it's like we have to all have our own resource for all of these core WordPress debugging tutorials.

[00:14:27] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So I actually like included the top articles for the search I was hoping to rank for. I said, analyze this. So I'm not giving it, I'm not using the tools that access the internet, but I am using results from my own internet search to give me recommendations and, and help me understand, with a prompt like you're an expert, s e o specialist, something like that.

[00:14:47] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: And then asking it why are these posts doing well? And it's often, they use a good mix of paragraphs and bulleted lists and it has rich media and, and things like that that come back, which we know is why post rank well and Google, but it is interesting. [00:15:00] To make sure our post is as comprehensive to give it a shot.

[00:15:03] Matt: So, so what's your opinion on how Google is going to start accepting, or, I mean, it already has like at this point, right? AI driven content. Like what, what is the, the ss e o outlook in your eyes for stuff like this?

[00:15:19] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I would be nervous if I was taking full content, not doing any of my own adjustments, not adding rich media to it and creating something that was just bland dumps of words.

[00:15:30] Matt: 'cause that's what it is. That's what it is. Bland dumps of words. That's like a, that's a great newsletter or podcast title right there.

[00:15:38] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Plan, dump support with the poop emoji in there. Matt, how about that ? Yeah, so just like any content you're creating yourself, what is your original take and what is the piece that's unique to you? So Paid Membership Pro we've talked about a little bit. one of our unique takes is the eight use cases that we identify with membership and subscription businesses.

[00:15:57] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So even in my AI generated generic content, I'm trying to squeeze in all of those eight use cases. And how that particular broad topic pertains just to this use case. So an example is, freelance services for WordPress, users. right? You're a freelancer, you wanna level up your skills to deliver freelance. Anything to people who build WordPress sites. What are some developer focused, what are some non-developer services you can offer? And then for specific niches in the membership realm, these eight use cases, what can you offer just to them? And that's my own original thought. That's the value I'm bringing in.

[00:16:31] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: That's additional to what chat G p t can make up based on what it knows about WordPress itself and what it knows about marketing and running sales and and other services people provide. So I think . Make sure when you, before you publish, that you look back and you say like, what is Kim? What is the essence of Kim injected into this?

[00:16:50] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Mm.

[00:16:50] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I don't think that those tools that scan things for, whether it's AI or not, they're not gonna work and they don't, they're very inconsistent. We've put completely new user generated content as well as AI generated content, and they either rank the same, or surprisingly, the one we wrote is the one that's identified as AI written, so they're not trustworthy.

[00:17:09] Matt: I don't know what that, technical, true flag is for this. But I've seen people put, like disallow, OpenAI in robots texts. Like, I don't know if that's a thing, if that's some, many people just joking about that. But have you started to look at maybe blocking . chat, G B T and AI bots from crawling and consuming your content, or is that still not even on the radar yet?

[00:17:32] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I am gonna put it on the list. I have no idea about that. So

[00:17:35] Matt: I don't know if it's true. So let's, let's throw, let's throw an asterisk on it, but I did see some people tweet at it 'cause I don't have anything that I'm really trying to protect since most of my content is video and audio. and at this point, if anybody wants to read my content, including a robot, go for it.

[00:17:50] Matt: but I've, I think I've seen it. So we'll double check on that. If I can find a link to it, we'll link it up. let's talk about some other AI tools that you may or may not be using. first I [00:18:00] found through the rabbit hole that you, accidentally sent me down when I started re researching more about creating different prompts.

[00:18:06] Matt: I found another AI tool similar to chat, g p t called Claude, c a u, like Claude ai, very similar to . chat. G P t I find the interface more pleasing and I actually like to work in there more, more. and I'm getting probably similar results and it's foolish because I'm paying for chat g p t, so I should be working in there.

[00:18:30] Matt: But I find that the interface is a little bit more pleasing and the results have been good and you can upload multiple files at once. So what I've been doing with it is, writing show notes for the Gravity Forms podcast. And because I'm generally . Interviewing two different people on the Breakdown podcast.

[00:18:50] Matt: What happens is if I have one big transcript and I send that over to any ai, it doesn't know that I'm having multiple conversations with multiple people, and it starts crossing the information over. So now speaking in multiple segments, I take the transcripts from both interviews, and with Claude, I can upload both of those text files and say, these are two separate interviews.

[00:19:13] Matt: Like the last one I just did, this one was Brad Williams, and this one was Jamie Osler from the Gravity Forms team. The conversation I had about Brad was about gravity forms in the agency world, and the conversation I had with Jamie was about gravity flow and how it works with gravity forms. Write me the show notes and pull out three bullet points for each conversation.

[00:19:32] Matt: and then I use those in the show notes and for that stuff, , it's pretty good. I've, I've actually had more success with Claude doing that than with chat G p T, and, and that's been pretty cool. Have you used any other tools other than chat, G P T.

[00:19:48] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: The tools that I've used have all been like, make the prompt hidden, which is curious. I've, I've built a couple for paid memberships pro as well that we have in some of our blog posts. And when that prompt is hidden, I, I think I don't get as good of a result there. I, the ones I've used, like, is it called Content Scale?

[00:20:07] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I used, I don't remember. I bch purchased like tokens for them. This was probably too early in the process, but I like the flexibility of crafting that prompt. Does Claude allow you to do that or is it pre-built? Like enter the name and description and, and thing and it, it's like a pick from a menu of what you want it to do.

[00:20:25] Matt: Yeah, I mean, right now it's not even a paid service. You can buy like a business plan to access its APIs and I, it's, it's not something that is competing with like the end user context, like, chat G P T is not yet anyway. so it is, pretty straightforward on that.

[00:20:44] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Yeah, the ones I've used have all been like a form that I fill out, and then it's supposed to give me what I'm seeking, and I don't feel like I'm getting what I need at the end of all that. So I like the interface where it's, where it's more chat driven and I'm the ones, crafting

[00:20:58] Matt: It's completely chat

[00:20:59] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: wanna [00:21:00] check out Claude. Yeah. Okay. Let me check that out. That's cool.

[00:21:02] Matt: yeah. how about for graphics? again, it's the same thing. I see people using Mid Journey and everyone's like, I'll make a blog post. They would just, man, I'm, I'm creating art, putting it on my wall. And I went there the other day and I was just like, WordPress logo on a brick wall , and it was like, can't do it.

[00:21:20] Matt: 'cause

[00:21:20] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: Can't

[00:21:21] Matt: failing miserably. But again, I assume it's, it all goes back to like creating these really rich prompts. But are you using anything on the graphic or video side for, for your marketing purposes?

[00:21:32] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: We are not, Jason actually had one of our developers spend a week trying to train diffusion, I think was the one they settled on, to with our nugget mascot. So our chicken mascot, we thought we could just be like Nugget Holding a globe nugget holding a WordPress logo nugget dress like WaPo,

[00:21:49] Matt: We're all adults in this room trying to make this thing happen.

[00:21:53] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: It was horrific. Everyone was, so, it was like six wings. It didn't make any sense. And like, just odd and scary, very scary. so we, I don't think it's there and we're not using it for any graphic or anything. We use Canva for that, which I don't know that they've introduced an AI aspect, but it's coming.

[00:22:10] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: We're seeing it in every platform we use is introducing their own AI section.

[00:22:15] Matt: Yeah, I mean I think that that, especially for graphics,I guess if you're doing like what I'll say digital art versus a featured image, for let's say a blog post. I mean, I think Canvas is really gonna . Potentially win that game because what I, I wanna do, what you're ultimately gonna wanna do is, I dunno, the first font to face that comes to my mind is impact, right?

[00:22:36] Matt: So this is like create me a featured image with the title WordPress 6.3, using Impact font. And then I can still go in and click on that title, WordPress 6.3, and modify it, change it, move it around. Whereas these things are creating . A piece of art and it's like, oh, whatever word you told it to print, it's there.

[00:22:57] Matt: You can't click on it and move it around. And I think that's where maybe Canva can win with like all of their different like elements and stuff like that where it's just kind of fast tracking the experience. You might not make like . A unicorn flying out of a castle with a dragon chasing it, with flames blowing up the earth.

[00:23:13] Matt: like I've seen people do wonderful things with, yeah, they're beautiful, but you know, it's not just gonna work for a WordPress, featured image or a marketing featured image.

[00:23:22] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I am optimistic for how it can blend. Like, block editor under the hood is really structured HTML ish, like content, right? So the more I can understand that I am interested how and if someone will build content generation with block patterns, with generating page layouts. And I don't know that we've seen that yet.

[00:23:44] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I think, I know people are trying to do these like website builders, but I've had great success for dummy temp template sites, demo sites for paid memberships, pro using some prompts to create like a landing page following, a standard . marketing structure for [00:24:00] pain, whatever, pain, agitate, solution, whatever you give it a, a model like that to follow.

[00:24:04] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: You tell it what your product is, what your prices are, and it creates a pretty strong . Landing page copy, right? Probably better than the average person just starting a business can originate on their own. they haven't studied all of these principles, so they're not quite sure how to do it. But if you can combine that with, design in terms of like page structure and block pattern layout, maybe give it like, these are the five options for the hero section.

[00:24:27] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: These are the five options for a pricing table. And just cycle through, show me my homepage, show me my homepage. Like that will be really cool when we get there.

[00:24:36] Matt: Do you think it's, Let's talk about just AI incorporated into a product. Maybe stuff that you're already working on with paid memberships pro and your other suite of products. Right now. I just kind of feel like, and I, I hate to say this 'cause I have so many, I have a a few friends who build some cool AI tools.

[00:24:54] Matt: It's almost like, wow, do I really need this inside WordPress when . Maybe it's just me in my use case for chat, G p t, like, it's, it's just literally just copy and paste it from another tool here. Do I really need it here? and I feel like some of the solutions coming out for WordPress products that have air quotes, AI inside of it kind of just being like, okay, like I can type in, I can make a form and it can make the forms for me, but

[00:25:23] Matt: Ah, if I just click this template, it's literally the same thing, and I'm gonna have to change this stuff anyway. I kind of feel like it's just a little bit of a flash in the pan scenario, but again, I'm still coming outta that skepticism phase. What are your thoughts on like integrating AI into WordPress, or we just way too soon for it?

[00:25:40] Matt: Or would you rather see it split tool over here? WordPress over here.

[00:25:45] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I think when it's not adding much more than, that hidden behind the scenes prompt and that text area on the site where it just drops in. Like an example, I think Bertha AI does, WooCommerce product descriptions, right? Or like product, short descriptions or anything like that. So that is to me just. the actual interface of chat g p t with a strong prompt. does that add value to the site? Maybe does it also create a point of frustration for the person using it that they're like, oh, it wasn't right, I have to fix it, And, and how does that bleed onto your product and people's opinion of your product?

[00:26:19] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: So for the AI is exclusively an AI product. Great. If paid memberships Pro added a feature like that, . And it was incorrect. Through no fault of our own, just through the quality of what AI can do right now, or what you input. If you just wrote, what's your membership site? And you were like horses, if that's like all you wrote. It's not gonna do well, and then you might get frustrated. And how does that bleed through to the product? So products have to be very intentional. Are they just creating, like you said, like a version of chat g p t under the hood and it's nothing more? Or are you doing something more? So lifter's working on one right now, lifter, l m s, to do more to help people map out a course.

[00:26:57] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: But it's a step-by-step process. It's, [00:27:00] it's going to take people a while to use this, AI interviewer tool, I guess you could call it. We're not calling it that, to get you to where you wanna be with your course. But it's no different than sitting with the life coach to say like, I have a mission. I have something I wanna teach people.

[00:27:14] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: And them saying, what is it? Why, why Kim, why this, why you, why now? And, and those questions. So that is because Chris is passionate about e-learning. Chris has been doing this and interviewing people and studying the concepts. So it's gonna be a much richer tool because it isn't just, Slapping AI between, a site and the a p I of chat, G

[00:27:33] Matt: Yeah, that was, I'm, I'm glad you brought that up 'cause I was gonna ask that question. That's a scary world to me, of folks who are building and, and it's not like they don't do it with paid memberships pro, but with what you're seeing, with your meetings with Chris and the lifter team, I. I'm sure there are people out there who are just like, chat g p t, make me this course, print out the course, paste it into WordPress, sell it for 99 bucks.

[00:27:55] Matt: And it's like, nothing of like the material or the customer or the experience. so I, I like that you've, you've framed it and sort of like, Hey, this is a coach. It's not here to just spit out, a done for you course and, go ahead and, and make money with it. So that's really cool that you, that you all are looking at that stuff already.

[00:28:14] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: I know. And I think it's not the, it's not the money play, it's not the fast play. It's not, I think is it, Kajabi has a course. Generator tool. It's like how exciting for people to just dump in a topic like horse training and, and get it, get something that looks like something they can sell.

[00:28:30] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: But, it's also like, we have to remember that these people have never had a business before. And the more we make things easy at the start, the like, they're not gonna stick around, they're not gonna be successful. So I don't know, we're the humans who control this right now.

[00:28:43] Matt: right now market. August 17th. this is the day that we are still in control. Kim Coleman, thanks for hanging out today and sharing some of your AI goodness with us. where do you want folks to go to say, thanks

[00:28:56] kim--she-her-_1_08-17-2023_134009: you can hit me up on Twitter Coleman, K 83, I think, or you can hit us up on paid memberships Yeah. What's my Twitter handle? I don't even

[00:29:05] Matt: don't know it off the top of my head, but . But, but I think you're, I think you're close. We'll get it in the show notes. everybody else at w WP Minute Plus, if you're at Word Camp us, do say hello. You'll find me mostly in the Gravity Forum booth because hey, that's who's, that's who's foot in the bill to get me there.

[00:29:20] Matt: and, if you wanna say hi, the other members of the team will be there. Eric and Raquel, we'll probably be hanging out in the hotel lobby, one of those days. So if you wanna stop by and say hi, we be happy to see everyone. It's the WP Minute, the wp