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Host Sean Frost is joined by experts in the manufacturing industry to discuss bringing big ideas to life. Join us every episode for a deep dive into manufacturing trends, processes, innovation, and how to be successful in the ever-changing world of manufacturing.
Ep18_EllenKerschke
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Sean Frost: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of Inspiring Innovation. We release an episode every second Tuesday. We're speaking to sourcing professionals project engineers, people that are trying to launch new devices into the world and the medical industries and.
Industrial, power sports industries, aviation safety. ~So we we, ~we touch a lot of different markets with our capabilities of sealing, sewing, and thermoforming, and we're excited to bring on somebody today that is. A [00:01:00] technical expert but also now on the sales team. ~So, ~she brings a really unique background and set of experiences to our sales team.
And Ellen Kershke has been with Polo for a little over probably three or four years now and mostly in our product development department. So I'm really excited to have her on as a guest today to discuss what she's learned in both of her different roles and some of the crossover that's taken place.
So Ellen, thanks for joining us.
Ellen Kerschke: Yeah, thank you for having me.
Sean Frost: So I'll just dive right in ~and, ~and ask you about that. ~You're, ~Since you've been in product development and you've been in sales at Polo, can you share a story that highlights How this dual perspective has benefited our customers.
Ellen Kerschke: Yeah, I think one thing that comes to mind is when we were in Anaheim, California this past February we were there for the MD& M trade show. ~And a trade show is a great place for the sales team to go. ~Our primary objective is to bring a new business on the sales [00:02:00] team. And so a trade show is a great place to go do that.
There's so many other people in our industry attending that we get to talk to and make new connections and hopefully win some new business. One thing that I think my experience in product development helped me navigate that massive trade show was. My technical understanding of Polo's capabilities.
So, you know, one approach to bringing a new business is kind of to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. But I felt I was really able to take a more tailored approach in the conversations and make sure that the needs of the people that we were talking to really fit Polo's capabilities.
And I actually ended up. ~You know, ~letting some people know that, Hey, I think that sounds like a great product idea. I don't think that it is the best fit for Polo. And we were actually able to make really good connections with those people who appreciated by [00:03:00] honesty that maybe it just wasn't the best fit this time around.
And I actually heard ~from, ~from one of those contacts earlier this week that they have a new product now. That they're looking to develop that is more within Polo's capabilities. So it's not always about getting the most volume. It's also about finding the right fit. And people really appreciate the honesty and communication that ~You know, ~this is what we do and we really want to work with you and partner with you.
Sean Frost: That's a great story to share. And as a salesperson and a numbers person~ it's, ~it's sometimes hard for us to grasp that concept specifically, ~and, and, ~and we want to try to find ways, a lot of times of fitting ~a you know, ~a square peg into a round hole ~and, and, ~And so for you to kind of cut through the minutiae and save time for ~the, ~the customer and prospect in that process, and really ~for, ~for Polo and, and our product development team~ you know, ~[00:04:00] everybody wins in that scenario and, and that's really cool that they did end up winning.
Coming back to you~ to, ~to discuss a new project that ~is, ~is a better fit for us. So, thanks for sharing that.
So what's the biggest misconception that you had about sales when you were in product development and vice versa?
Ellen Kerschke: I think when I was in product development, I thought sales was all about shaking hands and making deals. And while that is part of it, I did not realize how much data analysis really goes into our decision making for how we manage our customer accounts. ~You know, we're, ~We're constantly reviewing numbers, margins~ the, ~the scope of products that we make for the customer.
You know, is it a customer we make a lot of products for? Is it only one? There's so much in our system ~that we, ~that we have to review in order to make those decisions. And it's a lot more of. The Excel data work than, ~you know, ~just having business meetings all the time. Vice [00:05:00] versa. ~I, it's tough because ~I started out in product development, so I think I don't have as much of a idea of, of what product development would be like from the sales side.
Sean Frost: What do you think people on our team might have misconceptions on about product development.
Ellen Kerschke: I think there's so much that goes into product development that it's hard for the sales team to see all of the little details that go into it. We have some. Work instructions, or we call them BOMs, the bill of manufacturers that are over a hundred pages long. It takes that many steps to make one product because they're so complicated.
And someone from product development writes every single one of those steps figures out how long it takes to complete that step and then they have to put it all together ~And ~and oftentimes do a lot of engineering work ~to ~to make fixtures or [00:06:00] shop aides something to help assist in making sure that the operator is performing the step consistently every time. So there's so many little things that they have to consider, and I think we're zoomed out a lot of times with our perspective.
You know, we're trying to focus on high level, ~and, ~and they're really down in the weeds of it. So, we appreciate them a lot for doing that.
Sean Frost: Yeah, it is sometimes hard for us to understand, you know, we want to get to a quote as fast as possible, sample as fast as possible. ~And, and so, ~so that perspective is, ~it's ~definitely helpful ~for, ~for anyone in sales to hear. And I think my own perspective on that. Changed a lot just watching the creation of a sample and seeing, ~you know, ~a swatch of a material that, ~you know, ~ink was printed on ~and, ~and that going through the heater to dry the ink.
But does the material shrink and all the measurements that take place ~and, ~and all the factors and considerations to make sure that the product still meets the dimensions that it needs [00:07:00] to for the functionality that it has to perform? ~And, and so, ~So that's really a good example. ~And, ~and maybe this is going to be required training for our sales team at the end after we get through this podcast,
Ellen Kerschke: I do think think the more time you spend on the production floor, the more you can learn from the team.~ ~
Sean Frost: ~There's so much that goes into it. ~All right. Well, how's your experience in product development influenced your approach to new business? Especially within the medical and industrial markets.
Ellen Kerschke: I think my approach to new business is a little bit different because of my background in the sense that I'm more product focused than account focused.
So a lot of times I think in sales, we're focused on the scope of work within the account. What other business opportunities might we have with the customer? And while that's all important for me to consider as well, I think I do get. laser focused in ~on, ~on the product itself because I do have the experience knowing how to read the technical drawings, I can really dive in deep to some of those requirements early on just by understanding some of that [00:08:00] technical jargon and how to interpret the drawings ~and, ~and really focusing in on the product itself.
Sean Frost: 100%. I feel like it's been unique to go on customer visits with you and see a sample being placed, you know, within the, the overall product. And the questions that you ask about this label placement or the way that it sits on something are things that I wouldn't, I wouldn't even think to ask ~and, ~and I do think that that changes our meetings short of having one of our engineers or designers there along with us.
You know, ~it, it, ~it, Is very valuable. And I think the customers appreciate, ~you know, ~the level of detail and that you put into asking about those products and those samples and what we can do to ~make, ~make it even better for them in another iteration or in the final product. So it's a good example. From your perspective, how does Polo's approach to [00:09:00] our design process differ from our competitors?
Ellen Kerschke: I think we differ a little bit on the front end, where we take the time to consider a lot more factors up front than some of our competitors might. I think a lot of competitors might think that time is of the essence and they'll rush through things, but we will do a much more thorough dive into the requirements.
To ensure that we understand what we're being asked to make ~and, ~and get ~the, ~the pricing as accurate as possible the first time around. I think there's a lot of different requirements that are easy to put off and maybe think that they're not as important ~in, ~in the initial phases, but they really can cause very large differences in cost.
Like, for example, the packaging requirements Is often an afterthought but we ask for that up front so we know, do you have any type of retail packaging [00:10:00] required that could impact cost? Is it going to be both packed 100 units just thrown in a box? ~there's, ~There's a lot of different ways that we could package something and the requirements for that could have a huge impact. And we asked those questions up front.
Sean Frost: Are great examples and yeah, it's funny the difference between a poly bag or a fancy white corrugated box with the logo on it ~and, ~and how much that impacts unit pricing. So, that's a really good example. What's the most valuable lesson you learned in product development that you've now used apply in your role in sales.
Ellen Kerschke: I think I mentioned this a little bit earlier in our conversation, but visiting the production lines is so useful. I think getting out to the facilities where your products, your customer products are manufactured as often as possible is going to be a huge benefit to our sales team to do ~you know, ~every year because things can change, we get new product [00:11:00] lines.
This, maybe the setup changes there's so much that you can learn from the operators that are actually making the product. So talking to them, you know, ask them questions. What do they struggle with? You know, what's their favorite part of the product? What's their favorite thing to make? Just kind of getting on the ground floor and talking to people is probably, I think, the best thing that you can do to familiarize yourself with your customers and the products that we make for them.
Sean Frost: Our associates are incredibly valuable, take incredible pride in their work and have found improvements and potential issues on the line~ and, ~and have escalated it ~and, ~and found some things that, you know, prevented recalls for our customers and different things that were In the current design, the bond that they were making, but could have potentially become a problem.
~And, ~and so, I think you're right ~to ~to get out to the lines and to learn from them. ~And ~It helps us communicate with our customers so much better when you can [00:12:00] understand those constraints. ~And and I know too, ~Bringing customers through our facilities. ~We had, ~We had a customer who was formerly an auditor, and so they had lots of questions to kind of try to throw our associates and she said ~you know, ~the confidence that all of our associates had ~where it ~was incredible and obvious because they were comfortable doing their work while answering her questions and could point out immediately things that she thought they'd need the BOM to reference.
You know, they knew where the BOM was and she asked them, ~but, ~but they were all over their replies in terms of, you know, what they need to look for, for quality standards on each piece. ~And, and so, ~So, yeah, I think there's a lot to what you just said.
Ellen Kerschke: And you can tell how much they appreciate it too. You know, it's a benefit for us to learn more but I think it's also a benefit for them because they love to hear that we're interested. You know, we're not just, ~you know, ~talking to the customer and trying to sell more products. ~You know, we, ~We [00:13:00] want to know how it's going and then being able to see that from us, I think it's a big deal.
Sean Frost: Big time, big time. I always make a point to tell them when we're up there for town halls that they make our jobs easy because ~they're ~they're so good at doing what they do ~and ~and in that confidence that they have in their work and the pride that they have in their work is just amazing. Is obvious to our customers for sure. How do you ensure that customer feedback that we get in sales effectively informs our product development team? ~Yeah, that's a, that's~
Ellen Kerschke: I think there's a couple of different ways to make sure that the rest of the team gets the customer feedback. The first thing would be, is to ask the tough questions. You know, sometimes our customers will choose another manufacturer because of. Lead times are because of pricing or because of something else.
And they won't necessarily offer up the information on why ~they're, ~they're going with another supplier willingly. And I think ~it's, ~it's really just important ~just ~to ask [00:14:00] because. ~You know, at the end of the day, ~they may not share, and they may say no, but at least you tried. And in my experience, just asking the question, our customers are pretty forthcoming, and they'll let us know, ~you know, maybe ~why they didn't choose to move forward after quoting with us.
For sampling, I think ~that's a, ~that's another very important area where We need to share feedback with product development from the customer and I like to request we receive pictures of any feedback. ~That the customer may have, you know, obviously we sent them the sample so, so we're familiar with it but ~they might be doing some kind of a fitment check on their end.
We had a product go to its first round of sampling recently that was a thermoformed liner that was meant to be fit into a motorcycle compartment. And that was intended to have a really snug fit so it needed to be just right. And we did see some gapping in an area around one of the corners.
So, you know, we received pictures from that customer so that product development could review them. And we jumped on a [00:15:00] call and discussed all of the possibilities of how we could improve that fitment. And I think ~a lot of ~that team is engineers and designers, so they really are visual learners, and being able to have the photos to reference really speeds up that process of second round of sampling.
Sean Frost: Can you share an example of when Polo has gone above and beyond to launch a new product or even like a new version of a product for a customer?
Ellen Kerschke: We actually have a great example of that because one product that we make for one customer that's really great to work with, they have gone through at least three redesigns of the product since we started manufacturing it. So there's been quite a bit of updates, which we love to see from our customers.
We love to hear that they have brought their product that we make for them into the market. And they're getting patient feedback to understand what could be better and how ~you know, ~we could just better serve the industry. So, [00:16:00] they find some improvements that they could make to the product, and we help roll out the design changes, and we really supported the efforts ~to, ~to go ~to a, ~new design for that product with them well past getting into production to the point where ~You know, ~we would have weekly touchpoints with them to give them updates.
They had a little bit of volatile volumes for a little while, and we pivoted really quickly to ramp up almost doubling our weekly output for them~ for a, ~for a brief period of time to help them stay on top of their demand. I feel like I left some things out.
Sean Frost: Cost savings would be one.
Ellen Kerschke: okay.
Sean Frost: I think you touched on the timelines pretty well there.
Ellen Kerschke: Another thing that we did for that customer was they expressed an interest in reducing the price. So, we had an engineer dedicated in the production facility to go through every labor step in [00:17:00] review it to find out if there was some more efficiencies that could be had. ~Our product, ~Our production team has also done research and potentially getting new equipment to make the line more efficient.
So, so there's a lot of research and work that's gone into the cost savings initiative that they kicked off.
Sean Frost: ~But ~I think that's a great example because that is a, a customer that we've supported, that ~they've, ~they've basically looked at us as, we're not the ~only ~only supplier in this instance.
And they look at us as kind of their scale supplier ~to, ~to really help them with fluctuating demands ~and, ~and to be able to ramp and to be able to be nimble. ~And, ~and I think that's something that really makes Polo unique is that we can do that for~ you know, ~people when they're struggling to meet their demand with their legacy suppliers.
We can really scale quickly and have kept some of the fastest growing product demands off of [00:18:00] backorder for some of the biggest OEMs in the world, and it's something that we take a lot of pride in. ~So, I think that's a great example, Ellen. ~What's the most unexpected way your product development background has helped you in your current sales role?
Ellen Kerschke: I don't know if this is a great answer to the question because I don't think it's unexpected, but it's been such a great experience. I have to talk about how one of the customers accounts that I took over when I took the position in the sales role, I had actually been the designer on their product for two years prior to coming to the sales Role in taking over their account. Being able to be so familiar with their product because I was actually the one sewing the samples, making the product a few years ago, when I was still in my lead designer role in product development. That's just been such a great experience because I was already familiar with the customer and they're so great to work [00:19:00] with.
It's a great medical life saving device.~ Which is. ~One of my favorite parts of my job is that we get to help people. ~And yeah, ~And then just knowing the product so intimately that I've actually could say that I made one with my own two hands ~is, ~is really awesome.
Sean Frost: Yeah, that is so cool. And I saw that at dinner, you know, where it's like, normally a customer can't ask us some of the questions that, that they're able to ask you and, and you have intimate knowledge of. Why this stitch is there or why, you know, this this material works with that material and all the things that, you know we, we rely on the designers and engineers for, you've you've been through it, especially with, with that customer.
~So, So very, very cool story and, and and definitely worth touching on. ~So, what advice would you give someone in product development who wants a better understanding of the sales side of the business?
Ellen Kerschke: The advice I would probably give product development, if they are wanting to understand the sales side of the business a little bit better would be [00:20:00] to zoom out. ~And that's kind of a broad statement, but it really kind of encompasses. ~The differences between product development and sales, we look at things from such a higher level, you know, is the account healthy. What is the relationship with the customer what is, what's going on in the market, does, does the customer have other products that We could be making for them.
Do we need to be trying to pursue those new business opportunities? I think that we talked about earlier product development being in the weeds a little bit with their responsibility. And that's kind of the nature. Of the different roles. You know, ~we, ~we are playing different roles, but wanting to understand sales better, ~I think, ~I think just zooming out of some of those technical things and trying to see the big picture of the health of the organization and the relationship with the customer.
Those kinds of things are the things that we're thinking about regularly.
Sean Frost: Absolutely. Yeah. It's part of the reason that we serve the industries that we do. ~And, and ~Easier said than done for some of our some of our industries and [00:21:00] customers ~and, ~and feel for product development because we can throw a lot at them and, ~and and we, ~we want answers yesterday sometimes~ and, and I just~ I feel like that's another thing that we have worked on ~is, ~is what is our process? ~What, you know, how, how do we have more understanding? ~What level of details, ~you know, ~what tasks are going into this stage of the process ~and, ~and how can we work better together ~and, ~and really communicate well with each other. So would you have some advice for the sales team on that side of like, How should, how could we get to know and better understand product development too?
Ellen Kerschke: I think then I would just kind of say, do the opposite. So you need to zoom in a little bit more we're, we're looking at high level, but there's so many granular details that that product development. We have recently developed a great tool, which is the Visual Work Instructions, and you can just look at one page of that [00:22:00] document and see, ~you know, ~there's photos, there's text, there's arrows pointing to dimensions and quality requirements, ~and, ~and just see what's going on.
A massive amount of information packed onto one page, and then, like I mentioned, some of our work instructions are many, many pages long. So, I mean, you can see that there is so much detail to everything that they do, and, and, and bringing yourself to, to the production lines, and, and, you know, looking at the work instructions, and you can see that it's really quite a lot.
Sean Frost: Well said. So, zoom in for sales, zoom out for PD. ~I, ~I definitely can resonate with that, seeing some of the technical documents that we've worked on for a government project and just seeing how many smart people come around the table together to interpret what they're doing. The documents asking for and what, what the functionality of the product needs to be.
And, you know, us [00:23:00] sometimes collaborating with the lab in, ~you know, ~New York or Florida ~to, ~to get a third, ~you know, ~kind of approval ~of, or, ~or interpretation to make sure that we're hitting every single requirement~ for, ~for that product. Particular customer. ~So, ~so yeah, it is one of my favorite parts of the job is seeing the smart people working together ~to, ~to make these things.
~And ~And to your earlier point, these things save lives, provide comfort for patients help our first responders, help America's sons and daughters, and even the motorcycle side help you know, American brands and international brands and recreation. So we, we've got a widely diversified set of industries that we serve, but it's a lot of fun and it takes a lot of smart people to put these products out into the world and manufacturing is not easy.
Can you describe a time when your understanding of both product development and sales helped resolve a [00:24:00] customer issue more effectively?
Ellen Kerschke: Yes, I think we had a situation recently where the customer had steadily increasing demand and we got to a point where the equipment capacity was no longer able to meet the continuing increased demand and what we found because that equipment is older and not as easily replaceable because some of the parts are no longer available.
We wanted to move forward with making a slight process change to one of the steps, so that we could introduce some more modern equipment. And that was a really tough sell with our customer. In the medical industry, process changes require revalidation, and that's a lot of quality in engineering's work.
So they were really not interested in going that route. But it was the only way that we had identified we were going to be able to meet their increasing demand. And there are some other [00:25:00] benefits as well to the process change. Improving consistency in producing quality products and maintaining on time delivery.
With the demand increase. ~So, ~because of my product development background, I was able to talk really technically with my customer contact about the benefits of changing the process. And that ultimately convinced him that it was going to be the best route to go, even with the revalidation. So we're really excited that, ~you know, ~we're moving forward with modernizing our equipment.
And the customer is ~it's ~going to be happy because we're going to be able to produce more for them as well.
Sean Frost: ~Yeah, that's a great example, Ellen. ~What do you think is the most critical factor in maintaining strong customer relationships? From the initial design phase through the post launch support.
Ellen Kerschke: I think it's always going to be communication, early communication and often is so much appreciated by our customers. One thing I'll say [00:26:00] is that the customers are always excited about their products launching to production and they understand that there are logistical hurdles sometimes that get in our way from.
From making it to the finish line in, in the exact way that maybe we hoped and planned in the beginning. But our customers enjoy working with Polo, not because we never encounter hurdles, but because we're very communicative when they come up, as soon as we find out about them so that we have as much time as possible to react quickly.
And collaborate with the customer so that it's, it's not just our decision, but we're really working with them and partnering with them ~to, ~to make the best possible plan ~for, ~for product development and production as possible.
Sean Frost: I was gonna ask, you know, since you mentioned the medical trade show that we went to this year are there any trends now that you, you're having to zoom out in sales?
Are there any [00:27:00] trends that you've seen within the medical market or any of Polo industries that we serve over time that that you've noticed if you, if you are zooming out and looking at some of those more macro elements.
Ellen Kerschke: I would say we're definitely seeing an uptick in trends for clean room requirements or sterilization requirements. ~It's, ~It's pretty common in the medical industry in general but I am noticing it's seeming to become more common that that is a customer requirement which is great for, you know, patient satisfaction.
~To, to have that. So, ~So we're really excited ~to, ~to get into that a little bit more as well.
Sean Frost: Yes. Our new facility in 2025, we'll have a clean room in it. So we've never said that on the podcast. So we're, publicly announcing something now that is exciting. ~So, good, great, great point, Ellen. ~Any other lessons learned from your time in both product development and [00:28:00] sales that maybe you'd wish you'd known earlier in your career or might be able to advance somebody that's in our industry now.
Ellen Kerschke: I think this is not necessarily unique to my experience, but just anybody who, ~you know, ~works in the manufacturing industry or really any industry. Coming to the table when we do run into issues with the solution minded focus, I think it's so important because while it is important to understand, ~You know, maybe ~how problems can occur.
We really want to focus on next steps moving forward. I think it really helps develop positive rapport with ~your, ~your colleagues and your coworkers and your customers or suppliers ~to, ~to just be really solution oriented. Everyone appreciates, ~you know, ~the positivity that comes out of a solution oriented conversation.
Sean Frost: Having options of what we can do ~and, ~and knowing, ~you know, ~what actions we can take ~to, ~to remedy whatever comes [00:29:00] up ~is, ~is always helpful. ~And I, ~I You know, hear different scenarios often of maybe it's a raw material delay or~ you know, ~a raw material, like some component that changed, like a resin or something along those lines.
~And ~and it's easy to panic in those moments. But when you flip, you know, ~what, ~what communication, what steps, what requirements there are, and, ~you know, ~get the right people involved, then. Almost nine times out of ten, we avoid the disaster ~that, ~that we can all panic about ~in, ~in today's day and age, ~and ~probably more so than ever, but~ but ~I think that's a really great example, Ellen, and a great way ~to, ~to wrap is having that solutions oriented approach, early bad news is good news is ~the, ~the thing that I feel like I've said over and over since the pandemic~ but~ I really appreciate your time today ~and, ~and our expertise.
~And ~I think this is something that'll resonate ~with, ~with our audience. So, thanks for coming on the podcast.
Ellen Kerschke: Yeah, it was great talking with you, Sean. Thank you.[00:30:00]
Sean Frost: All right. Well, thank you for tuning in. ~If you~ if you want to hear more about a particular topic, if there's a type of guest that you'd like to see on the podcast, we are open to hearing any feedback and appreciate if you like and subscribe tune in every second Tuesday and thank you for tuning in again for another episode of Inspiring Innovation.