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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV and the Boyd School of Law. Hi, I'm
Unknown Speaker 0:07
Ilana weatherald. I'm a third year law student and welcome to social justice, social justice, the conversation conversation. Hello, everybody. And thank you for tuning in again on this Thursday for social justice, a conversation with Lana weatherald. Me and Professor Charles Stanton out of the Boyd School of Law. Today, I'm going to have Professor Stanton lead off, it's usually me running my mouth, right? So we're gonna have Professor Stanton start off with a conversation about what's going on, obviously, with Nancy Pelosi and her husband, Paul Pelosi. So I'm gonna go ahead and let Professor take it away.
Unknown Speaker 0:39
Okay. Thank you, Lana. Yes. What a tragedy, you know, what a tragedy that the Speaker of the House had her husband so brutally attacked. And equivalent or even greater tragedy is the lack of any kind of acknowledgement by the Republican Party, as to how this hatred was stirred up among not just this one man. But among so many of their followers. It's very interesting and watching the talk shows over the weekend, how there was basically an equivalence that the Republicans tried to create between what the Democrats were saying and what what they were saying, and that both sides were to blame. I think we can make a reference to Charlottesville, when the ex President basically said there were good people on both sides. But as in that case, where people were carrying torches, saying the Jews will not replace us, there really isn't any equivalence. Something like this was morally wrong and reprehensible. And I think that the Republican Party is, has gotten more and more away from any kind of mainstream thinking. I think they believe that their future is in basically trying to inspire people, not even so much to violence, but in believing in conspiracy theories, that are not linked to any form of reality. And that this is the way it's going to be. And when, when crimes like this happen, they moved to distance themselves very, very quickly. But it is a it is a frightening thing, because you have basically more than half of the people who are running for elected office, either federally or in the States, who don't even acknowledge that the last election was proper. So it opens up the thought, we're going to be having an election next Tuesday, and I unhappily am prophesying a very rocky road, leading up to the start of the new year. I think a lot of the these elections in which the Republicans did not win, are going to be contested, these things are going to go into the courts. And it's going to be the basically what happened with the presidential election, in 2020, magnified, like 100 times. And I think, also that I think it's an anti, it's a move against democracy. Because if basically, what you're saying is that the elections are not valid, they cannot be verified, that they are created in such a way that the votes cannot be validated that democracy, which is based on voting is out, then what is the alternative? What is the alternative to democracy? Well, the alternative democracy, unfortunately, is dictatorship. Where basically, we who believe we are being thwarted, in our aims, you know, use force to gain our hands as they tried to do on January 6, and you see the same, you see the same remnants of that today?
Unknown Speaker 4:11
I think it's important that we understand that this isn't just fear mongering, right, that we're not just trying to say this to strike fear in the hearts of people about the future of democracy. These candidates are really expressing the view that if they are to be elected, they will never Republic I have seen I believe an elected official a well not elected yet, but hey, we'll see coming out of Wisconsin who said the Republicans will never lose another election. If I if I take office, you know, they're saying these things, they are coming right out and telling you what the plan is. This is not something that I think is imaginative or something that I think is, you know, like I say fear mongering we're looking at No, no, no, this is really happening. I mean, these there are people on the ground espousing views this dangerous that do threaten democracy and that do sound authoritarian and they put potentially will take office in a few short days. Yeah, well or be elected to take office at a future. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 5:05
it's also it's also quite fascinating as to how this, this conspiracy theory human on hoax of an election has taken hold, when, and I've said this before and I'll say it again, not one, either federal court or state court in our country has found any evidence of this. And it just shows you how people's allegiance to some forms of social media really can be so destructive and so hard to really fight. Because once the people are inculcated in these in these, these beliefs, and they're supported by, you know, Fox or whatever, you know, television network that similar to Fox that they watch, you know, it's very hard to make them change.
Unknown Speaker 5:54
So, you know, we talked about we've talked about this before, before, Professor but I think it starts to get when we blame social media, or we start talking about, you know, these people are hive minded, that that gets dangerous, right. And I think that we need to have a little bit more of a nuanced conversation about what these people believe, because you are 100%, right, this q anon this you know, cabal of evil Jewish people, these overtake errs of the election, right? It is all absurd. It is all sorts of crazy to think about, but these are people that do hold jobs that keep families that are educated that believe this stuff. But do they really, you know, you have to then wonder maybe in some level, deep down, they know that this stuff is bogus, or that they have doubts about it, but it is easier to feel heard. And it is easier to find people that have a similar lot in life than you to find some common ground. Even if you're a little wary about that common ground, at least it feels good to write, or a feel good quick hits society. And that's easier for these people. They want to be heard and accepted and feel like they're a part of a group. And they are willing to pretend I think at some level that these things are really happening to be a part of the group, I think it's the same. It's almost like these horrible, violent versions of book clubs. They're reading these fictions and talking about it as if it's real, or having real conversations about if these characters are really doing these things. Except it's on the most grandiose scale, you can imagine. It's facilitated by massive corporations, and then it gets politicized. But this is what it is. I mean, these are these people believing boogeyman Book Club stories, and then bringing it to the polls, essentially. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker 7:35
think that I think that there is a there is a bifurcation. I would say, a lot of these people sincerely believe a lot that a lot of these things are going on. But I think the actual people that are in charge of the party, do not 75 80% of them. No, I mean, time and time again, you you hear people who are writers, reporters, people in television and media in Washington, who have actually had conversations with these people behind closed doors. And they know that they said that thing is completely bogus, all these theories are clearly bogus, but people because the largest segment of the Republican Party is now Magga. They they just they all they care about is just retaining their their jobs, basically. And they're not going to come out and say anything that's, you know, courageous or honest or anything like that.
Unknown Speaker 8:35
I think that's I think that's 100%. Right? And then there's no incentive to doing that, like you say they're gonna lose those votes, if that's what 75% of the base is believing or at least failing to believe then what's the incentive in espousing beliefs that are a little more congruent with reality? Let's say?
Unknown Speaker 8:53
Yeah, so so. So that's how we opened up today. And then we'd also like to get into the whole issue of the Supreme Court. Very recently, they had the arguments on the viability of affirmative action. And of course, there's the widespread suspicion, almost certainty that much like the case that they heard on abortion, that they're going to, they're going to be basically repealing a lot of the affirmative action. cases that have been already decided and throw out those precedents. It's really interesting when you listen to the arguments and read what the justices had to say, particularly Clarence Thomas, who, you know, for many years when the Democrats were in charge of the court, had very little or nothing to say very rarely questioned any of the the attorneys. And now that, you know, the Republicans are the majority He comes out with stuff that's really it's very hard to understand. He was in the argument, he, he said he didn't understand what that what the value of affirmative action was, he didn't understand how it would widen or broaden or enhance the educational experience of, of the students. And I mean, something quite something kinda like that is so so almost ludicrous. Because the whole purpose of affirmative action is more than just, you know, giving people who were historically discriminated against a chance to pursue a career pursuing education. But it also is, is, is enormously helpful to society. Because you get to interact and engage people that you never would have before, you might have come from, from a background where people of color, people who are of Latino ancestry, or people who have Asian ancestry, you never really had met them or gotten to know them, maybe even in the high school that you went to. And that discovery, basically, that you might have a tremendous amount in common with these people. You know, which I think is one of the great things about education that you can bring people together from various ethnic groups of religions, you know, etc. And, you know, people can can consolidate around the things that they agree upon.
Unknown Speaker 11:39
I want to be careful here, but I do think affirmative action is somewhat of a political stopping point. Because the reality of this is, is University, the University system in our country has become a business. That's what it is. They want to admit any given student, regardless of race, regardless of gender, they're going to choose to admit that student, usually based on Yes, and I think it's now it's become almost financially lucrative for some of these universities to have diversity metrics of a certain stature. Right. And that could be just as much as why they're admitting certain students beyond metrics, right? Or beyond affirmative action. I think the conversation needs to be focused on not, you know, forcing universities to meet X quota or having things. I think it's, you know, why are we allowing a a for profit system to stratify in any sort of way at all, let it be grades, let it be socio economic status, and think about who benefits from these conversations? You know what I mean? I think it's, the university system is just plain and simply broken from the from the ground up. And I think it's all about money. If a black student was guaranteed to have an endowment that was X amount, at the end of his tenure at that university, he would be admitted more so than a white student, a white student would end up being a bigger endowment at the end of his four years than that white student. It's about money. And I think it's easy than to say it's racially imbalance. I don't think it is I think they see a kid and they look at the economic value of that kid. And then whether or not they're admitted depends on if they see economic value in that kid more so than race. And it's just a it's a way to get people angry. Affirmative action is like a buzzword to make people are angry about oh, my white kids getting thrown out of school or or my black kids not getting into school. It's just a way to stoke political anger when the real enemy is the fact that these university systems rule us view all of us is nothing more than a check.
Unknown Speaker 13:31
Yeah, I think I think the interesting thing, too, is, though, that before affirmative action before any of these programs, the participation of people of color in the universities was was minimal. Even today, even today, with affirmative action, even today with diversity, it's very interesting to analyze the top 15 or 20 schools. Now, we here at UNLV. UNLV is a diverse, it's a diverse institution, we have probably people from almost all the countries in the world, from every state, from every ethnicity from every religion. And yet the the the the universities, that supposedly the elite universities in these surveys are way behind UNLV. Despite having superior resources in every way. I can see I can see where people will see affirmative action in the sense as a kind of quota system. But I can also see from my experience, that without some kind of metric metric, I think you'd have very few, very few people of color and any of these universities, I mean, I remember when I was going to school, which is a few years ago, I'm not going to say how made would make me sound like a dinosaur. But we had very few people of color at NYU. And NYU was considered a progressive tops one high school. So I don't know, I think I think you can look at it from from from, I think you can look at it from both sides. But But I don't think in our society, where we have ingrained prejudices, very, very few things are done volitionally, you have to sometimes light a fire or imagined to people to get them to do anything.
Unknown Speaker 15:40
Yeah, no, and I hear what you're saying that then sort of if we put quotas in play, or if there are sort of metrics to go by in place that then you there's accountability, and then there has to be accountability, and there is something to be said, for forcing accountability. But then I just wonder if the conversation is moot anyway, you forced that on public universities? Well, then the wall go private. You know what I mean? I think eventually, if we start pushing it all, one way, there'll be pushed back the other way, if, you know, Harvard, Yale, and all of them were held to a very strict quota, you know, of, let's say, 35% minority as well, guess what, I think some private institutions would start popping up that do not that are not going to be held to those same standards, you know, what I mean?
Unknown Speaker 16:19
I just, I just don't have a personal aside here. You know, in getting to come to this institution, and, you know, teaching here and, you know, sort of imbibing the, the flavor of the of the school. It always interested me in a lot of the places I had gone through previously, which I thought were progressive. And I thought they these were places where they would, you know, jump at the chance to get into the history of, of our lack of diversity or in to put it in the nicest way we can. Very few very few places, we're interested in doing it. Yeah. So I think there's a there's a, there's a public, there's a public face that they have, about what their intentions are. But there's also a private side to them. That basically would would if they if they could get away with it, and the money was the money kept coming in, they will keep things right keep things as they were, you know, yeah, absolutely. So then we're going to talk a little bit, you know, because Americans is a capitalist country, many times to access is just the the earnings reports of the oil companies. And I always, you know, I always have to laugh because Joe Biden, you know, the as blamed for everything, I mean, you know, if, if an egg fell out of the sky, and some somebody hit somebody on the head, they blame Joe Biden for it. But that the numbers are really out of this world. Exxon has a $20 billion dollar profit in the quarter,
Unknown Speaker 18:01
right, Joe Biden somehow handed Exxon $20 billion in profit was Joe Biden himself writing the check. And that's why your gas prices are so high looking and stuff. But no, and here's, you know, we talked about it a little bit earlier, I think there's a misconception about what these numbers maybe not a misconception, maybe a lack of complete lack of understanding about what these numbers really mean. You know, we've become so entranced in just the the net worth of certain individuals Elon is net worth the Jeff Bezos, his net worth. And these numbers are 1 billion 2,000,000,003 and ends up meaning nothing acquisition deals get reported in the news like nothing, man, million billion dollar mergers. So these numbers end up. They don't mean anything, but $20 billion. And that's it is nearing incomprehensible. And I think when we just talk about these numbers, like they mean, nothing they sometimes lose. Obviously, they lose their meaning. So I just to understand that, that and that's just one that's one oil guy. That's one, you
Unknown Speaker 19:02
know. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting, you know, because one of the movies that I, that I teach, is Roger and me, were having to deal with Flint, Michigan, and the whole situation with the car companies going back into the, you know, the 80s. And there is no, there is no corporate responsibility. There might be people in a corporation who believe in societal, societal good, but the amount of them is rather small. And you can see this across the board in the movie, the formula, which had to do with the with the oil crisis, this is going back, you know, to the times when Jimmy Carter was the president. And you know, of course, it's convenient to, you know, blame Saudi Arabia and everything else. But there's one point in the movie where the where the guy says to the guy who runs the whole lot runs the whole show. He says, you know, it says, he says this The Arabs, the Arabs, he says to the to Marlon Brando's character, and Marlon Brando says he says, Listen, he says where the Arabs? So it's always been, it's always been, you know, big business, big oil. You know, it's all about profit. It's all about, it's all about profit. It has nothing to do with politics. It really has.
Unknown Speaker 20:30
It doesn't I mean, it truly does not have anything to do with politics, other than we do not have enough regulations on corporate, you know, I would say corporate tax rates, I would say corporate misbehavior, I would say monopolies I would say antitrust, there's no law that really exists that is meaningful, anywhere where this is concerned. It's not a political issue. It is a corporate capitalism greed issue, which is not inherently political. There is nothing any president could do about a $20 billion profit. There's nothing I mean, short of locking all of them up and saying, I know you're a crook. You know, right. But that's not reality. That's not the world we live in. I'm sorry. There's just this is not Joe Biden's fault column, a lot of things, but he's not responsible for $20 billion, and Exxon profits, that's for sure. In the same way, he wouldn't be responsible for Victoria's Secret Profit or for profit, or you just because it's oil, because it's gas companies. That's what this turns into. It's ridiculous. Silly.
Unknown Speaker 21:19
I think it's I think one of the things, one of the things that you're seeing, though, is an enormous amount of corporate money and dark money going into going into the Republican campaign funds. Yes, I think that I think that although he has not succeeded in one of what he wanted to do, this minimum corporate tax is definitely on their kill list.
Unknown Speaker 21:48
Yeah, absolutely. And, of course,
Unknown Speaker 21:50
the Republican Party has always been, has always been aligned with corporate interests, I always find it interesting how the Republican Party rarely has a platform on what they will actually do to make people's lives better. And then one thinks of all the great social programs that that occurred in this country, from the New Deal to the Great Society, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Obamacare, Social Security, Obamacare, not one of those programs, not one of those programs, was a Republican program. They're all democratic programs. And the thing that's the thing that's mind boggling to me, is how they've sold white middle America, on the Yeah, on the idea that they're actually for the white middle class, when they've done nothing for them. And they've painted, they've painted the painted people of color as your enemy that they're taking away from you what you should have, but the one that's taking away from what you should have known what people of color should have other people who are running these institutions, these corporations, aided aided by a Congress that is largely not entirely but largely on lock, stock and barrel, body, mind, soul, by the lobbies of all these different industries, the drug industry, we could be here.
Unknown Speaker 23:22
It's fascinating, because you have we're talking about it right now multibillion dollar corporations, and then they all the wealth hoarding difference for themselves. Yet you still have people right now to this day that believe that Reaganomics or trickle down economics is a real you know what I mean? And they still are holding on to that 80s dream till this day. I know those people, right, those people live in Wisconsin, those people live in Florida. They're real. And it's like, they're showing you that this doesn't work. They're showing you they will hoard the wealth they're showing you it's all for the 1% and those guys in the top of the room and it's not for you. You can look at this. This is public record these it mean the SEC, I'll show you what these guys are doing. They don't care. Oh, that's still they're fighting for us. It's still I mean, this. Come on.
Unknown Speaker 24:04
Yeah. Well, is it what's interesting, what's interesting, too, is that every time there's some kind of economic crisis, the answer is always cut. We're gonna have corporate cut corporate tax rate cut tax rates for the rich. And we always hear the promises of corporate America, we're gonna reinvest, we're gonna retool, we're gonna, we're gonna do all these things redevelop, you know, it never occurs it never because all they're concerned with is buying the stock back, boosting the stock price for the shareholders. It's done time and time and time again, when they had the tax cut when they had the tax cut. During the Trump years. The the middle class, the middle class, got crumbs, little pieces, nothing little pieces of nothing, you know, little pieces and nothing. There's you know, there's a great movie called City Hall with Al Pacino. Where he's campaigning on all these issues, but he's actually you know, he's in league with, you know, the people who run the whole thing. And he has this, he always he has a term, I guess it's a Yiddish term called Medscape. And it has to do with, you know, dispersing, you know, goodies to the to the average person. And the young man who works for him says, he says, you know, he says, it's like that biblical thing where you know, you, you throw the seed on the ground, and maybe you get lucky. And some of the seed germinates. And you get a flower, he said, but it's completely by accident, because it's not intentionally that you're going to help anybody, except the people who contributed to your campaign. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 25:39
right. Exactly. Absolutely. And I think this all sort of ties, ties in with the prices of food that we're seeing rise to the same thing with oil prices. And then you wonder, I say this all the time on this program, who benefits from this stuff? Well, people are inflamed about the prices of food and inflamed about the prices of oil, and they believe it's Joe Biden's fault. So who are they going to go out and vote for the very same people that keep these tax rates low so they can continue to make this money? It's insane. And people can't see beyond that loop of power. It's like, yeah, no wonder the prices are high, you're so pissed about it, you're not going to vote for the guy. So I want to keep it low. And it sounds like I'm sort of trying to keep it very low and rudimentary and base level, but that's what this is. If you're inflamed enough to go think it's someone else's fault, or blame the wrong person, they're gonna there's no incentive for them to then lower prices or bring you back in as a consumer. I mean, why would they? You're gonna go out and vote,
Unknown Speaker 26:33
just connected,
Unknown Speaker 26:36
I think to I think, though, that the political system has a lot to do with it. Yeah. I think that you know, that they were listening recently to Claire McCaskill, who was the former senator from Missouri. And she was talking about the loyalty to the party has become everything. That whereas he used to have people who were party members, but they had independence, they would, you know, uncertain issues that were very important to the country, they will diverge. I'm reminded of, I'm reminded of Senator McCain, when they wanted to try to repeal Obamacare. And Senator McCain said, you know, that I'm not going to I'm not going to go for this, I'm not going to do this. And it reminded me and reminded me of President Kennedy, who had who had gotten the Pulitzer Prize for writing profiles and courage. And I guess one of the men, one of the reviewers was talking to him. And he said, You know, I don't think he wasn't president yet. When he wrote the book, right? He said to you know, this is a great book, he said, but it's not a long book. And President Kennedy said, he said, it's not a long book, because the title of the book is Profiles in Courage, that there's not that much courage, courage among these people. I mean, a perfect example. You know, just getting back to what we started the conversation between myself and Lana, today. There's so many people in Washington who know what's right, right. They know that there's, there's so many things that need to be done, that could be done, but they want to keep the power. It's how it's how so many people, you know, worked for the, for the former president, they knew that things were going on that were not right, they did nothing. And now everybody's coming out with a book. But it's too late. It's too late. When you're writing a book, the thing is to do something when you're there, the right thing when you're there, and you don't raise your voice and say, you know, this is wrong, and you know, something should be done. It's amazing. Like we have, we have I guess it was Bill Barr has a book, the guy who was the head of the Southern District of New York, he has a book, Michael Cohen has, everybody has a book. Everybody has a
Unknown Speaker 28:48
book, reflecting upon their past choices. Yeah, you know, it's mind boggling,
Unknown Speaker 28:53
this level of reflection and this level of editing, let's say what's done when they were
Unknown Speaker 28:58
Yeah, no, it's interesting. It's interesting and of course, I think that you know, we were discussing this before the show I think that the Republican Party has realized for their purposes that running people or conscience and running people who are bipartisan and running people who are willing to reach a consensus is not going to get them the voted that they need they need a certain particular kind of vote or laboratory inflammatory yeah inflammatory so they have the John McCain's the Mitt Romney's work they don't work so when we're going to run a national election we need somebody who's going to be very you know someone that
Unknown Speaker 29:40
will jazz up people that previously will say well that's a status quo kind of guy right? They won't they don't want the status quo kinda guy they want the guy that's going to rah rah you know, bring enticement bring excitement bring a reality TV level personality to the table. Because that's that's what gets people up out of bed, unfortunately. And with that, as the show ends, it's airing. You know, this is Thursday, we are at the point, folks where if you have not mailed in your mail in ballot, and that was the way you were planning on voting, it is probably too late. If you still have your mail in ballot on hand this Thursday and did not place it, I would recommend you, you go ahead and vote in person at your local polling place to make sure your vote is counted. You do not want to leave this in the hands of the postal system to maybe deliver your ballot on time. God forbid, make sure that your vote counts. Were nothing if we don't encourage us civil civil action here. And
Unknown Speaker 30:35
I think that I think that this is in my lifetime, the single most important election that we have faced, and the ramifications of not voting and allowing things to continue on their course, I think would be disastrous for our country.
Unknown Speaker 30:54
And with that, we tell you to go ahead, go on and vote and we'll see you next week. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton, s t a n t o n@unlv.edu. See you next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai