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You're listening to Rabbi Aryeh Wolbe of TORCH in Houston, Texas. This is the Thinking Talmudist podcast.
Welcome back everybody to the Thinking Talmudist. I know we had a long introduction to this Talmud class today, and I am really excited that we're able to resume our Talmud studies. We're on 23a and we're gonna continue some of the stories that the Talmud, after saying the main story of Choni HaMeagel, Choni, the Circle Man, now we're going to hear some of the background to his life. Rabbi Yochanan said,
All the righteous man's days, he was troubled with this verse. A song, thank you so much, of exaltation, when Hashem will return the captivity of Zion, we will be like dreamers. So it's funny, it's not funny, but my rabbi used to say something very, very special. He says over there, Oz Yimole, the next verse says, We say, Oz Yimole shoyik pinul shonein urina. This is in the same
introductory, so this is chapter 126 in Psalms, the Song of Ascent, when Hashem will return the captivity of Zion, we will be like dreamers. That's the verse we just brought. But then it says as follows, Then our mouth will be filled with laughter and our tongue with glad song. Our tongue with glad song. So my rabbi said, what is that referring to? He said that, you know, what happens in the resurrection? What happens in the resurrection? Everyone is returned to life at the age that they departed.
See, he said, imagine a father passes away young, a 29 year old with a little baby, two babies. And the child, way outlives him, and the child is 80 years old. Now at the time of resurrection, what happens? The child is 80, the father is 29. It's hilarious. It will be. And people are gonna be laughing, I can't believe this is the father. This is, you're my father. You're like so much younger. It's gonna be like, it's gonna be unbelievable joy and laughter.
People are just gonna be so excited. Once we're already bringing up this verse, I wanted to say that that quick thing. So he says over here, Amar, mi ikot ayonim shivin shnin b'chalma? He says, is it possible for anyone to sleep for 70 years with one continuous dream? Meaning in one continuous sleep? As this verse implies, right? Because what does the verse say? When Hashem will return, the captivity of Zion will be like dreamers. Says, yom achad ahava aza b'orcha. One day, he was going along on the road.
Chazi elahu gavro dehava nota charuva. He saw a certain man planting a carob tree. Amar le'yichoni said to him, we spoke about carobs last week. Remember in our Tu B'Shvat episode, we talked about this. Amar le'yichoni said to him, Hai ad kamo shnin toyin. How many years does it take for this carob tree to bear fruit? Amar le'yichoni said to him, Ad shivim shnin. It takes 70 years for the fruit to start being produced. Amar le'yichoni said to him,
P'shit eloch dekho yis shivi shnin. It is clear to you that you will live another 70 years. What are you planting a carob tree that's not, you're not even gonna enjoy during your lifetime? Amar le'yichoni replied to him, Hai gavro almo b'charuva ashgakhte. Says this man found a world containing full-grown carob trees. Kehecho de'shasli le'yavahasa. Just as my ancestors planted those trees for me, knowing that they themselves would never live to see them fully grown,
Shasli na'ma le'vroi. He says, so too I plant them for my children. My parents planted them for me. I'm planting them for my children. So you see these carobs, right? These are my parents and my grandparents. They planted this so that I can enjoy. I'm doing the same for my children. It's a very very important thing here. The investment that one needs to make for their future. Even if you don't benefit from it.
Right? It's an amazing thing when we give our children, and I think one of the biggest, I was just at a conference I heard Shabbos Kestenbaum. You may have seen him online on television. You know him, right Eric? You know, he's unbelievable, very powerful young Harvard student who's now suing Harvard for all the anti-semitism that was going on there. And he, one of the things he said at this conference, he said there's no excuse
for every single Jewish child to not have the opportunity to go to Jewish day school. There's absolutely no excuse. Because if every child did get a Jewish education, it would be a different world today. It would be a totally different world. But here look, look at this incredible power. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for my descendants. Everything that we do to become a better person makes us a better parent, makes us a better
husband or wife, it makes us a better member of a community, and the the benefits may not be seen for generations. I had the privilege when I was in Ukraine back in 1997. I was there in 96, 97, 98, and then 1999 I was no longer part of that program there, but I went to Moscow and I went to Belarus in the year 2000. And it was like, I've been around in the former Soviet Union plenty. And I remember one time I
put on tefillin for a child, for a young boy, a teenager, that had never put on tefillin in his life. And then it turned out that he was a grandchild. Someone came over to me after, he says, you know who you just put tefillin on for? I said no. I'm not gonna say who it was. But his great-great-great-grandfather was one of the leading sages in Europe 100-200 years earlier. And I remember I was just in total shock. Who knows if all of his great-grandparents or grandparents' prayers
was so that I meet up with him and put tefillin on him. We, our prayers, we think is for me. It's not only for me. It's for our descendants. We have in our prayer every single morning and the Sephardic minag is a little, the Sephard has a little bit of a different terminology, but we'll just, וְהַרֵבְנוּ אֲשֶׁם אֲלֹכִינוּ אִשְׁדִּי רֵסְרֶשְׁךָ בְּפִּינוּ Hashem Please Hashem, our God, sweeten the words of your Torah in our mouth And in the mouth of your people, the house of Israel.
And may we and our offspring, and the offspring of our offspring, and the offspring of your people, the house of Israel, all of us, may we know your name and study your Torah for its own sake. That's correct. And what do we say? What are we saying? It's not a prayer just for me. Yeah, I want my Torah to be sweet. But my children and my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, for it to be sweet for them. So they should have the privilege of learning Torah.
So yeah, we think in a, you know, two-dimensional, it's me and my world. Me, it's, you know. No, it has to be multi-dimensional. It's our children and our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren. And even if we don't have our own children to send to Jewish day school today, can we ensure that our grandchildren are going to Jewish day school? And you know what? Maybe we can help. You say, you know what? Talk to our children. Why don't you send your kids to Jewish day school?
It's too expensive. Well, I'll pay for it. I know grandparents who pay for their grandchildren's Jewish education. Because the parents can't afford it, the grandparents said, we'll pay for it. Because it's so important that our grandchildren have a Jewish education. Here we see they're planting a tree. What is a tree? A tree is compared to a human being. A human being is like a tree. Man is like a tree of the field. The roots are the ancestors. The fruits is the next generation.
And that's, we always have to ensure that we keep that tree healthy. That there's a connection to the previous generation. And that they're able to produce good fruit to their future. Talmud now continues. Choni falls asleep for 70 years. You hear this? Choni sat down and he ate bread. Drowsiness overcame him. And he fell asleep. An outcropping of rock rose around him as he slept. And he was hidden from sight. And he fell asleep. He slept for 70 years.
By the way, there's a lot that we can unpack in this. When he got up, he saw what looked to be the same exact man picking some of the fruit from the carob tree that he had planted. Omer Lehi, Choni said to him, Are you the one who planted this tree? Omer Lehi responded to Choni, I'm his grandson. Looked just like the person who planted it. Omer Lehi, Choni said to him, It is evident from this that I slept for 70 years.
Just as described in the psalm. He saw that this mirror had given birth to generations of offspring. This too tended to confirm that he had slept for 70 years. Choni's pregnant donkey had given birth over the 70 years to male donkeys. And those donkeys had subsequent sired. Subsequent sired. Had given birth over the 70 years to male donkeys. And those donkeys had subsequent sired. Subsequently sired other donkeys by their mother. Unbelievable. So we see what's going on here is that he slept for 70 years.
We're going to see the Talmud has a couple of stories about this importance of this 70 years. What happened during the 70 years? I imagine someone's sleeping. He wakes up suddenly. You thought you were dead. We thought you were dead a long time ago. We thought you disappeared. Missing person. Gone because he had this rock. Nobody was able to find him for 70 years. He was sleeping. Suddenly gets up. He said to the members of his household,
Is the son of Choni, the circle maker, still alive? His son is not alive. But his grandson is alive. Says to him, I'm Choni, the circle maker. What would you do if someone came to you and said, I'm your great grandfather, right? I don't believe you, right? They did not believe him since 70 years had passed and Choni was last seen. He went to the house of study. He went to the study hall. He said, He heard the rabbi saying,
Our teachings are as clear to us as they used to be in the years of Choni, the circle maker. Because for whenever he would come to the house of study, Any question, any difficulties that the rabbis had in their studies, Choni would answer. He would resolve for them. Choni says to them, It's me. I'm the guy. They didn't believe him. Can't be. And they therefore did not accord to him any honor that was due to him.
He became distressed and prayed for divine mercy. That he die. And he did. This is an example of the popular adage. Either companionship or death. So the famous statement that our sages teach us that you have two options. Either have a friend or you're dead. Also, our sages teach us this as well. When you go to learn in yeshiva, you get a chavruta. What is a chavruta? A study partner. It's very important to have a study partner.
Because if you don't have a study partner, you're alone. You're not going to thrive in your study. So this is an amazing thing. He did not participate in the work of the generation. He did not wish to live beyond the normal life span of people. If there was no longer a task left for him to accomplish. So he was living without purpose anymore. Nobody was taking him seriously. And now what? What is he going to do? Very interesting gemara. All right.
Want to continue here? Another story? Okay. The gemara relates another story about Choni's grandson. Who also had the gift of bringing the rains with his prayers. Was the grandson of Choni the circle maker. And when the world needed rain, what happened? The rabbis would send a request to him. And he would pray for mercy. And the rain would come. One time, when the world needed the rain. The rabbis sent a pair of rabbis to him.
To ask him to pray for mercy from heaven. That the rains come. They went to his house and they couldn't find him. And they went out into the fields. And they find him hoeing. They greeted him. And he didn't welcome them with a smile. When he gathered up some wood to take it home. He carried the wood and hoe on one shoulder. And his cloak on the other shoulder. The entire way home, he did not wear shoes.
But when he came to the stream of water. He put on his shoes to cross it. When he came to an area of thorns and thistles. He lifted the hem of his clothes. Thereby exposing his legs to the thorns. When he reached the town, his wife came out to meet him. And adorned with jewelry. When he reached his house. His wife entered first. And then he entered. And then the rabbis were then invited to enter. Then he sat down and ate bread.
Without saying to the rabbis, come and eat. He did not invite them to join him in a meal. He apportioned bread for his children. To the older child, he gave one bread to eat. And to the younger child, he gave two. Then he said quietly to his wife. He whispers to his wife, he says. I know that the rabbis came here to ask me to pray for rain. Let us go up to the roof and pray for mercy. Perhaps God, the Holy One, blessed is He.
Maybe He will accept our prayer and the rain will come. And we should not have to take credit for ourselves for bringing the rain. By praying for rain on the roof, out of the sight of the rabbis. Without having been asked. They hoped to conceal the fact that the rain came due to their prayers. In their humility, they did not wish to be given credit for bringing the rain. They went up to the roof. He stood at one corner. And he went up to the other corner.
He stood at one corner. And she stood at the other corner. And they prayed and were answered. When the rain came, the clouds arrived earlier from the corner of his wife than from his corner. When he came down from the roof, he said to them, Why did you come? The rabbis sent us so that we ask you to pray for the rain. The rabbis sent us so that we ask you to pray for the rain. He said to them,
Blessed is God, who did not require you to depend upon Abba Hilkiah for his prayers, But sent the rains before you can even ask me to pray. The rabbis were not fooled. They understood what happened. And they understood that Abba Hilkiah prayed. They now sought an explanation for his unusual behavior throughout the incident. Because none of this really makes sense. They said to him, We know that the rain came on account of your prayers. We know. But would you please explain to us.
We're all puzzled. We have no idea what's going on. Can you please explain to us what's going on? How come when we greeted you out in the field, you didn't greet us back with a smile? He says, I was hired as a day worker. And I said to myself that since I'm being paid by the day, let me not interrupt my work even for a moment to welcome you. Because I'm on the dime of my employer. I can't take time off.
Which, by the way, is a very important thing for us to remember. When my father left one of his employments that he had, he went into the last day of his job. He walks into his employer's office. And he's closing up his desk. And he says to his employer, I need to ask for forgiveness. He says, okay, how much money did you steal? She says, no. I'm a paid employee. And it may have been that here and there I may have
had a conversation with my wife on the phone. It may have taken some time away from work. I may have had a pencil that ended up in my briefcase from work. And I want to ask forgiveness. He says, ah, that, no problem. But you see how careful you need to be, even in such a small thing, not to take. Someone's paying you for your time. It's not a commission. You're getting a commission for whatever you sell.
Okay, you sell, you sell, you don't sell, you don't sell. You're being paid for your time. That's something that you need to ensure. It's not theft for the time that it's not being, not being used. And why did you carry the wood on one shoulder and your cloak on the other? It would have made more sense to carry the wood on top of the cloak to protect your shoulder from an abrasion. It would have made more sense
to carry the wood on top of the cloak to protect your shoulder from an abrasion, from a cut. You're carrying wood on your shoulder. I mean, Amar lehu talis shu'ul ha'iso. He said the cloak was borrowed. Lehochi yishali lehochi lo yishali. He said, for this, meaning to wear it, I borrowed it, but to receive it, I didn't receive permission to use it as a protector for my wood. I didn't borrow it for that
and thus I didn't receive permission to use it for that purpose and risk snagging it. Mai taima kula urcho lo si emar mesane. And what's the reason that the entire way home you didn't wear your shoes? And when you got to the water, you did wear the shoes. What's going on? Amar lehu kula urcho chazino. He says, the entire way I can see where I was stepping and therefore did not require the protection of shoes. Be maya lo
ka chazino. But in the water I could not see where I was stepping and therefore had to wear shoes to protect my feet. To protect his feet from snakes. Abba Hilkiah was very poor and could not afford to wear shoes and therefore he only wore them when they were absolutely necessary. However, even when he was not wearing shoes, he did not go barefoot, which one should not do, but wore a protective covering of rags over his feet. He says, and why
when you came to the thorns and the thistles you lifted up your hem of the clothes, thereby exposing your legs to them. Amar lehu he said, this is my heels. He says, my feet will heal, sorry. My feet, my legs will heal, but my garments won't heal from the thorns and thistles. And therefore I didn't want to ruin my garments, my legs. Okay, so I got a little scratch here. It's fine, they'll heal. My time
of kimota mar lemasa nafka debesu demar kimakashta. He says, and why when you arrived in town, did your wife come and greet you adorned with jewelry? Amar lehu he said to them, kidei shelo eten einai be'isha acheres that I should not desire to glance at another woman. Mai taima ailo hi b'reisha, and why did you let her, why did you welcome her into the house before you? Vahadar ailmar, and then you went in. Vahadar ailin
ananan, and then you allowed us to enter. Amar lehu he said to them, mishom doloi b'dikisu lei, because your character was not known to me. Right, literally because you were not investigated. I don't know who you are. Thus, he did not feel it was proper to enter the house first, leave his wife outside in the company of two strange men. One must not take for granted the good character of people. I don't know who you guys are.
So, I wanted my wife to be protected from being alone with you outside while I went in. So, he says, mai taima kikorich ma'arifto loi omar anan isu kruhi. He says, why when you ate did you not ask us if we wanted to eat with you? Come and eat. Mishom doloi nafishi rifto, because there was not clearly enough bread for everyone. So that, you would have declined my invitation in any case. What did we learn about this just this week?
That if someone doesn't have enough food, you're not allowed to eat from their food. We just learned this in halach on our Everyday Judaism podcast. Se'uda she'ein hamaspek is laba'alel. He says, you would have seen I didn't have enough bread. You wouldn't have eaten. Okay, and I therefore said, let me not cause the rabbis to give me credit for nothing. I was going to offer you. You'd say, oh wow, he's so kind, whatever. Mai taima yo'iv ma'ar li'inuka k'shisha
ha'ado rifto le'zut re'trei. Why did you give the older child only one piece of bread and the younger child two pieces of bread? Amar alohu, he said to them, hai koi beveisei. This one stays at home during the day where he is able to eat. V'hai yossi bebei knishta. And this one goes to synagogue all day to learn Torah. And he's much hungrier than the older brother. Umai taima kodim soluk anani mehag zavisa dehavis kaimei
de debisu de mar la'anana didei. And they asked, why did the clouds arrive earlier from your wife's corner of the roof before it came to your corner of the roof? He says, mishom de'itso shikha beveiso. He said, because a woman is generally present in the house, v'yayv v'yayv ei rifto le'aniei so that she is available to give bread to the poor people whenever they are in need. Umikarve hanayosa. And its benefit is more immediate. v'ano yohivno zuzo
v'lo emikarvo hanayosa. He says, but I don't give bread. I give money. Which is not as immediate. Since they need to go first buy food with the money I give them. She gives them food directly. They're able to eat it right away. Inami, alternatively, her prayer was answered earlier because hanu bir yoynei dehavi bishiva vusan There were these boars in our neighborhood. Ana bo'i rahmeh dilemuso. I prayed that they should die. V'hi bo'ino rahmeh dilehadru bityufta.
But she prayed that they repent. And they repented. So therefore she had more merits than I did. And because she had more merits, her prayers were answered before me. So we're going to stop here, but I just want to point out over here. Next week we'll continue with more stories about Choni. You know what? There's one more here so we'll do one more story. But I want to just point out here. It's an amazing thing when you hear a story
like this from our sages. We think like that's weird. He's carrying the wood all and like every detail of the story. Why is it being told to begin with? We walked on with it. No, no, no, no. It's very specific. He carried the wood on this and he went to the water, he put his shoes on. And when he went through the thorns and thistles he rolled up his thing. Each detail. You see we're living in a culture
where things don't have meaning. Where people just do things. Why? Because they're in the mood. It doesn't make a difference. Right? There was a meaning behind every single thing our sages did. There was no such thing. And the rabbis just did things. They just said things. They just acted in a certain way. No such thing. Everything had meaning. Had purpose behind it. And you see here, seven things. Each and every one had a reason.
The rabbis came, he didn't say hello. Why? He's busy working. He carries his cloaks like this and the wood like that for a reason. He goes into the water for a reason. He picks up his his his pants. Right? Why? There's a reason. Why his wife greeted him. There's a reason. And each one of these we should break them apart and learn through them because there's some really important lessons that need to be drawn out from each of these things.
Each one seems like what's the likelihood that there's a meaning behind this? There is. There's a meaning behind it. So now the Gemara relates a story of another grandson of Honi the circle maker, Hanon Hanechba. Hanon the hidden. He was the, sorry, the son of the daughter of Honi the circle maker. When the world needed rain, the rabbis would send school children to him and they would grasp him by the hem of his garment
Father, Father, give us rain. That's what they would do. They would grab onto his cloak and they would He would say in front of the Almighty Master of the Universe Send rain for these precious children Because they don't even know the difference between the father that gives them rain versus the father that doesn't give them rain. I'm not the one who gives them rain. You are and they don't know the difference. They're coming yanking on my cloak thinking I'm the one
who gives rain. I don't give rain. They don't know the difference. Give it for them. And now the Gemara explains the origin of his name. Why was he called Hanan the hidden? Because he used to conceal himself. He was called the hidden. He would conceal himself in the restroom. He was careful not to expose himself even in the restroom. Which our sages say that when one is in the restroom, obviously alone, he should carry himself and conduct himself
with dignity and with modesty as if there are other people there. It means just like if we're in front of other people, oh then we're so cautious about being modest. How about if we're alone? Our own self-dignity should be worth something. Alright my dear friends, this concludes. This was the Talmud on 23b in Tractate. And God willing next week we will continue our study of the Talmud, our quest of learning more Torah. My dear friends, have an amazing Shabbos.
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