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Candid conversations for the church. Host is Ardin Beech of Windsor District Baptist Church, Sydney, Australia. Co-hosted by Jonathan Hoffman.
And like clockwork this week at Windsor. Doctor Jay, thanks for joining me once again. Arden Beach, your host.
Jonathan:So good to have you back, Arden. I've had to do a couple partial episodes with you, one without you. And you did so well. Oh, thank you.
Ardin:You've grown a lot.
Jonathan:I know you haven't listened. I count it a privilege.
Ardin:If I'm if I'm not on it.
Jonathan:I count it a privilege every time you're here, and you're not allowed to tank the show while you're on it or while you're off. No. I'm just kidding. No. It is a privilege to privilege to have you here.
Jonathan:And We have fun. We do. And we have a great great conversations. Really good one coming up today.
Ardin:Now this kinda ties in a little bit with our guest that's coming up in just a moment, and we have spoken about it the past couple episodes as well. But we are hitting May mission month.
Jonathan:Yes. May mission month. It's a a time where we emphasize on the work of the gospel overseas, and whether that's missionaries that we send out from WDBC or whether it's organizations that we support. And our special guest today is Kelly, and she's from Open Doors who work with the persecuted church.
Ardin:How many missions would we would we help out?
Jonathan:Well, help out is a good word, because we support, missionaries to varying levels and degrees here at WDBC. There's obviously, our members, support some of these missionaries privately. But as a church, we support a handful of missionaries here full time.
Ardin:And a ton of compassion kids.
Jonathan:Yeah. A ton of compassion kids. We are actually and this is where we need a drum roll. That's a bad drum roll, but we have a drum roll because we're very excited to announce that we are taking expressions of interest because we're gonna be going on a scouting trip to visit our compassion children in Kupang in that region of Indonesia. So there's, a number of compassion children that we sponsor here.
Jonathan:Their names and faces are up the wall. Janelle did some wonderful bookmarks if you were at the church. So we're looking to invite people who are part of our church to go on this trip. It's a great way to meet the children that we've been praying for and that we've been supporting through the compassion program, And we would love to yeah. We'd love to send a a number of people.
Jonathan:So it's one of those things where if the church expresses enough interest, then we can go to compassion and say, hey. I know you only do a handful of trips in a year. We wanna be one of those trips.
Ardin:Okay. So it's gotta be through compassion?
Jonathan:Yeah. This is through compassion. And then that way we get to meet the children that we've sponsored through them. And if we say, if we get enough interest, then we can go, and they'll they'll design the trip just for us. So we're really hoping to be able to
Ardin:do Is there a you said there's 20 people. Is there a cap on numbers?
Jonathan:I don't know what the cap on numbers is. We're taking expressions of interest. We've taken 20 names down so far. I think we're hoping to get, you know, maybe between thirty and forty people expressing interest with the reality that maybe, between fifteen and twenty, we'll end up going on the actual trip. So, yeah, really excited.
Jonathan:It was announced in our service last Sunday. So lots of cool things happening, in the month of May. Also happening in May is our made new family course is starting up, and we're doing a bit different this year. So in the past, made new family has been Sunday morning after church around lunchtime, and it's been a great time. But this year, we're actually doing it on a Wednesday night.
Jonathan:And so from 06:30, there's a lovely couple in our church who are gonna be catering it for us. So there's gonna be dinner provided. It's gonna go from 06:30 to eight. We thought we'd do it midweek to kind of give people who, who maybe just need a meet night off from cooking a meal on a on a Wednesday or people who struggle to be around on a Sunday, they can come on Wednesday night. And, yeah, we really look to people signing up.
Jonathan:We start the May 20.
Ardin:Well, that'll kinda feel more like a home group anyway midweek. It'd be nice.
Jonathan:Yeah. We're hoping that people can, come along.
Ardin:Alright. Let's get to our guest.
Jonathan:Well, Arden, I'm very excited to have on the show this week at Windsor, my new friend, Kelly. Welcome, Kelly.
Kelly:Thank you. Glad to be here.
Jonathan:Now, Kelly, I know you have only known Arden and I for a short amount of time.
Ardin:Mhmm. Three minutes.
Jonathan:Three minutes.
Kelly:Yeah. Three
Jonathan:minutes. But you and I got to meet recently at an Open Doors event. Why don't you tell us a little about Open Doors? What's their mission? What they do?
Kelly:Yeah. So our mission to Open Doors is two things, serve the persecuted and strengthen the local church. So we wanna serve the persecuted church. We work in over 70 countries. And then in Australia and New Zealand, our goal is to strengthen the local church by connecting them with their persecuted brothers and sisters.
Kelly:So through prayer, through hearing their stories, but also by helping the body to become connected because we are one body. Right? I think it's first Corinthians that talks about that when one part of the body suffers, every part suffers. When one part rejoices, we all rejoice. So just, yeah, connecting the persecuted church and the Australian church together to strengthen them both.
Ardin:How do you connect them when so many of these people are in such closed nations that we can't connect to anyway?
Kelly:Yeah. So we have local partners on the field who are local believers who are doing their own ministry, doing the work, and we just have connections with them. And, you know, they're able to kind of communicate out stories. And, of course, some of that, because it is closed and it is very sensitive information, we can't share all the information, but we try to share as much as we can to help the Australian church get to know what our brothers and sisters are experiencing. So it's a bit complicated, but it's worth the effort.
Jonathan:What's your role with Open Doors? Because we met at a World Watch launch event.
Kelly:Yes. Yeah. Don't if that's
Jonathan:what you caught.
Ardin:There we go.
Kelly:Yeah. So the World Watchlist is, Open Doors. We do research every year. Our international organization does to rank the top 50 most dangerous countries for to be a Christian. So that's scaled on two scales of pressure scores, which might look like if a woman decides to follow Jesus, her husband could take away her kids and divorce her or, you know, someone could lose their job or digital surveillance in a lot of countries.
Kelly:And there's also violence scores, which is like we call that smash scores as well. And that's church bombings, militant attacks, and things like that. So they do research in these countries and put up the scores to make the world watch list. And so we just launched and had some events to launch the 2026 version. Yeah.
Kelly:So that's where we met and got to hear some, I think, some pretty powerful stories of, you know, what's been happening on the ground really recently in a lot of countries and kind of a time to better understand what our brothers and sisters are going through.
Jonathan:Amongst the team, was there any surprises, I guess, on that list when the list was sort of came out this year? What was the what were the countries that were getting talked about that maybe, you know, weren't expected?
Kelly:It's a good question. Because I've been at Open Doors for two years now. I've seen a couple renditions of the World Watch has come out. And, I think last year, we had a lot of African countries on the list. And I think this year, a big jump was Syria.
Kelly:They've moved up quite far. But number one has been North Korea for quite a long time, so that stayed quite constant. But, you know, things shift and change. And so I think in recent years, Sub Saharan Africa has seen a lot of violence. Those countries have kind of risen on the list.
Kelly:It changes every year.
Ardin:Are you hearing anything out of Iran at all? Yes. I'm reading that there's, like, zero Internet there now, essentially.
Kelly:Yeah. We do. We are getting some updates. It is a bit few and far between when there are blackouts, but we are able to get some updates. And, yeah, we're just continuing to pray for them because we know our brothers and sisters are on the ground.
Kelly:They're there. We know many have been arrested and that the conditions are really terrible. And as the violence escalates, those in prison are at a higher risk as well. We're trying to stay connected and pray for them, but it is difficult.
Jonathan:Now I may be getting this wrong, but you don't quite sound like an Australian.
Kelly:Oh, now we're getting to that. Hey.
Jonathan:Where are you from? If I'm right in saying you're not from here. Mhmm. And and, yeah, how did you decide, oh, I wanna go work with Open Doors?
Kelly:It's quite a long story. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. So that's the Southeast of The US. My family's all still there. And quite a quite a long journey, but basically did, you know, a mission trip, and then that led me to feel like I was called to go to Southeast Asia for a couple years.
Kelly:And then long story short, got, really burnt out from the ministry that I was doing and, needed to take a sabbatical. And that's how I ended up here in Australia. I had a couple of friends and got really connected with a good spiritual community. So this was a good landing place for me to do a sabbatical. And during that time was really asking the Lord about what's next and really felt like he was kind of opening the door for me to stay.
Kelly:Yeah. That's when I got connected with open doors and started working for them.
Ardin:We're a popular destination with Americans, I think.
Kelly:With good reason.
Jonathan:There you go. That's right. That's right. With good reason.
Kelly:We outnumber you today, so be careful.
Jonathan:Yes. Finally, we got somebody here to represent. Oh, man. Kelly, when can you come back? Tell us I don't know how much detail you can go into.
Jonathan:So, obviously, you know, only share what you can. But I'm curious, what was the experience like to go into that context where you're serving overseas? I imagine there's a lot of cultural navigation that needs to happen as well as, you know, the pressures of a ministry role. Can you share with us what were the things that maybe you thought were easier than expected, and what were some things that maybe were harder than expected?
Kelly:Yeah. It's a good question. I think that in moving to Southeast Asia, the Lord had a lot of grace covering me. I remember that really soon after I got there, it just felt like home. I signed a contract for two years, and that felt overwhelming before I went, but just felt like home very quickly.
Kelly:Conveniently where I lived, there was a lot of English spoken, so it was quite easy to get around. I did end up learning the language to be able to converse with people a bit better. When I was praying about going, I was asking the lord, well, how will I make money? Where am I going to live? Who will be my friends?
Kelly:You know? I had all these questions. And he just spoke to me a verse from Isaiah. I think it's forty nine ten where it just talks about the sun will not be down on you. You will not go thirsty.
Kelly:Like, I will guide you. I will take care of you. I'm definitely paraphrasing here, but that really just spoke to me that he was gonna provide. And I can 100% say that he did. He provided everything that I needed and answered all those questions.
Kelly:So, yeah, I was able to develop a good community there and never was in want. I think what was harder is that, building friendships cross culturally can be challenging. It's absolutely possible, but I think in being there for six years, I was able to kind of see where the wall is of where my friendships could go deep, but some of them could only go so deep. And so I think there was and this was subconscious. I was kind of putting it on myself, but just this pressure to kind of fit in.
Kelly:I'd I'd feel that quite often trying to grow out of that. But, yeah, I think I might have, like, diminished myself a little bit just to not ruffle any feathers. So that was that was challenging, and I think the weather was very challenging. It was very hot and very humid, which made the culture was to hang out indoors. Go to the mall.
Kelly:You go get a meal, which is fun. I like to be outdoors. I find it very refreshing, so I was really missing that. So it was sneaky things. Things that I wasn't expecting were hard, but the things that I was worried about, super easy.
Ardin:Predominantly Muslim there or perhaps still Muslim? Yeah. Yes. Would have only been able to go so far, I imagine, in terms of depths of friendships and stuff.
Kelly:Well, actually, I had incredibly deep conversations and friendships with Muslims. The Lord really grew a big heart in me for Muslim people. And I actually find that it's very easy to relate to Muslims because we have a lot of similarities in our faith of believing in one God. We share the prophet stories. So there's a lot of understanding.
Kelly:I find it much easier to have conversations with Muslims than people from other faiths because we're from father Abraham, and, yeah, there's a lot of similar understanding.
Jonathan:You said that you came back. You needed to take a sabbatical because of burnout.
Ardin:Mhmm.
Jonathan:It's the sort of word that gets thrown around a lot. Mhmm. So I wonder, can you share, if you don't mind, from your experience, how did you know you hit burnout, and have you got to a place where you can actually say how you got there?
Kelly:Yeah. Definitely. At the time, I had no idea what was happening. I was very tired all the time. And in my last year there, I had become quite isolated because I was living alone, and I was living in an area where there weren't a lot of foreigners, and a lot of my community was kind of living in a different area.
Kelly:And my community was was locals and foreigners, but still they were a different area. So I was socially isolated in that time, and I my schedule was just a bit too much. And, yeah, I think what was at the core of it was that I think I I learned that I was depending on myself for the work. You know, I had put this pressure on myself that I need to go to the to this refugee school, which is where I was volunteering. Because if I don't go, no one will teach them, and I have to do the work because no one else will be there.
Kelly:But I had forgotten that it was the Lord who was doing the work. That it was his like, he had called me there. He was working. I had just taken too much on myself and wasn't trusting him in that. And so how it played out is, yeah, just feeling really tired and then feeling emotionally unstable, to be honest.
Kelly:I was just crying all the time. I had no idea why. And I could just sense that something was broken, but I didn't know what. And thankfully, I had a dear friend who was a spiritual mentor and a counselor to me, and she brought up burnout. And I she was like, I think this is what's happening, and I had never heard of it.
Kelly:I was like, really? What's, you know, what's going on? And so we talked through it, and I think on on this side of it, yeah, I can definitely say that's what was happening. And it was just that I wasn't taking care of myself. But the core of it, yeah, that I wasn't trusting the Lord in the work that I was doing.
Ardin:How did it feel heading home again then? Had you changed? Had home changed?
Kelly:Oh, absolutely. Because I was there for six years, I had gone back about once a year, except for during COVID, of course. And each time I went back, I was different. And my friends were moving on, and you don't quite feel at home where you're serving, but you don't quite feel at home at home anymore. So it's like that third culture kid
Jonathan:Yeah.
Kelly:Kind of thing. Mean, I wasn't a kid, but that kind of experience where it really taught me that heaven is truly our home. That, you know, Atlanta, Georgia isn't my home. Southeast Asia isn't actually my home. My home is in heaven, and that gave me a lot of peace in
Jonathan:that.
Ardin:I haven't called Sydney heaven before, but I like that.
Kelly:Not quite, but close.
Jonathan:Arden, probably hasn't had a chance to tell you yet. He spent some time on the mission field as well.
Ardin:Yeah. I was a missionary kid.
Kelly:Yeah. Oh, you're okay. Yeah.
Ardin:So coming back to your your home culture is is a spin out.
Kelly:Mhmm. Yeah. I think it's very confronting when when you're told that you should fit in somewhere, but then you're you don't feel as you do. Yep. Right?
Ardin:You don't really fit in anyway. Yeah. Just this weird kid.
Kelly:Yeah. It's quite challenging.
Jonathan:Kelly, what is something that you think most people don't understand about ministering to Muslims? And when they think about how the gospel might encounter Muslim culture or Islam, what's something that you learned as part of God growing that heart for you?
Kelly:I think I just learned that we have so much in common that I think media tries to say that we're so different, and we hear that told to us. But we have so much in common. I mean, sharing the prophet stories is massive, and there are beautiful people who have a beautiful heart for God. And the beautiful thing is that God is showing up to Muslims. There are so many stories of Muslims having dreams of a man in white.
Ardin:Yeah. I was gonna say, a man dreams of a man in white seem to be the thing.
Kelly:Mhmm. It's so funny because the Lord calls us to be a part of the mission, the great commission. And it's like, when I see, you know, people having dreams of him, I'm like, he doesn't even need us, but he blesses us by inviting us into it. Right? We get to participate and to witness him moving.
Kelly:So, yeah, I just feel so encouraged hearing all these stories of God just moving in Muslim countries and, people coming to faith and risking everything to follow Jesus because they do.
Jonathan:I wanna come back to something you said earlier about the burnout because I think it's really profound and pretty amazing for you to be able to say that. The bottom line, you felt like you weren't trusting the Lord enough even as you were doing his work. That is such a common, I think, temptation for people in ministry, and I feel like it's something the Lord brings me back to all the time. You know, Jonathan, whose whose strength are you doing this in? I wonder if you go back to think about before, like, when you were whether it's back in Georgia or you you said it all started with a mission trip.
Jonathan:Can you go back? Because I I think there might be people in our community who are excited about the Lord, who love the Lord, who wanna serve him with all their heart, and they're looking for opportunities. Like, what does that mean for me? You know, is that something beyond kind of the life that I that I have? If you could go back and have a conversation with yourself, either just before you went on that mission trip or maybe just when you got back and say, hey.
Jonathan:Let's have a cup of tea, and let me tell you how you should be thinking about this. What would you say to yourself?
Kelly:I think it's important to have mentors and guidance. I didn't have that. Again, I I just went about it a little backwards, and I just I just went. I think the church that I grew up in, they didn't talk about long term missions, so I had no context for it. And I didn't know that there were organizations that supported that until I got there and talked to people.
Kelly:So, yeah, having a I did later connect with one and kind of got some some mentorship and some guidance, but it was a little too late at that point. But I think I might have I might encourage, you know, myself back then or that person to really wrestle with that part in scripture that talks about Paul planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but it's God that makes the plant grow. Right? And what that spoke to me is that we all have our assignment, but it's God that makes the work grow, that actually makes things happen. And another thing I learned is that we are designed with limitations.
Kelly:God designed limitations because in our limitations, that's where we depend on the the Lord. And so whatever assignment we are given is within that limitations. Right? So being able to settle into that knowing, okay. This is my assignment.
Kelly:Everything outside of that is out of my control. That's the Lord's work, or it's someone else's assignment, and it's almost none of my business. Because I think was it Peter who asked the Lord, oh, well, talking about John of like, oh, well, what about him? Yeah. And Jesus is like, what is it to you?
Kelly:What is it to you if he, you know, stays alive until I come back? And the Lord really spoke to me through that of, you know, I was kind of looking at other, people on the field in in other countries who had it much harder than me. Maybe they were in village situations or just didn't have the luxuries that I had of a comfortable home and air con and Wi Fi and all that. And I thought, oh, well, if they can do that, then I can't take a day off. And the Lord really spoke to me in that and said, what's it to you what they're doing?
Kelly:That's their assignment that within their limitations and their strengths. This is within your giftings and your limitations. Just do the work that I've called you to.
Ardin:With your your more global sort of broader perspective now with open doors, is there a country or a culture you'd like now to to go and visit? Not necessarily long term, but just something, you know, some a a people group you feel drawn to?
Kelly:Yeah. I think I still have a deep love for Muslims, and that is a very broad, very wide people group. If you're talking about The Middle East or if you're talking about Southeast Asia, it's very different cultures. I don't know. I think at this point, the Lord has me on a path for this season.
Kelly:Like, I really believe that life is in seasons, and I am open to in the future having a season on the field again. But right now, I'm focused on this season here, and I trust that if that comes up, he'll tell me. He'll let me know when it's time.
Jonathan:What point do we start sending the missionaries back to our home country? Oh,
Kelly:is a that's a good question, which is so complicated.
Jonathan:That was a bit tongue in cheek. I'm trying to throw in the bus. But, to to answer it to maybe asking it the more straightforward way, I'll just say, you know, having been out of The US for a little while like I have been, when you look back to the place you came from, what are you noticing now as someone from a different perspective? I can relate to what you're saying about, you know, kind of in a third culture space. People look at people look at people like us.
Jonathan:Anytime we open our mouth, oh, you're American. But here we are. We spend every waking moment trying to work out how to be an Australian in an Australian context. And you get asked all the time, oh, what's going on over there? What's you know?
Jonathan:So I guess I'm curious. Do you still try to keep an eye on what's going on back in The US? If you do, are there things you see differently now than when you were there? Obviously, there's a lot happening in Yeah. In the last in the last twelve months or more.
Jonathan:So I'm not trying to get you into any sort of hot water with any particular group of people, but, you're in a unique perspective as someone who's been in a lot of other cultures to look back on the one you came from and what are you seeing in the church.
Kelly:Yeah. That is a hard question. I think it's hard partially because I've been out of the country for ten years now. So it was very different when I was there, and I was 21 when I left, so you can do the math there. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't necessarily paying attention.
Kelly:And, I think how I view life and think about all of these types of things is where can I make a difference? I I do my duty. I vote for, you know, everything, but I see that I can make a difference on a relational level with the person in front of me. So that's kind of where I focus. I am not the best about staying kind of on top of everything that's going on.
Kelly:Probably just how I deal with it, which is not the best. But I find peace in that, you know what? I can make a difference here in front of me with whoever I'm in relationship with.
Ardin:What do you like about the Australian culture then?
Kelly:Oh, so much.
Ardin:Are we the best?
Kelly:I can't quite say that. I I'm not gonna pick a favorite. No. I love well, of course, I have a limited view of Australian culture. I've been here for three and a half years, and I've only lived in Sydney, and I've lived in the North Shore and Northern Beaches.
Kelly:So that's I know that's a subculture. It's a very strong subculture, but I love how people value the outdoors. You have such a incredibly beautiful natural environment. That's one thing that absolutely drew me here. Like, just the colors of the rocks, the trees, the water, it's different here, and your sunsets are different.
Kelly:But I just love that when I came here, you know, when I was back in Southeast Asia, if my friends wanted to hang out, they'd say, oh, let's grab a meal. But here, it was, oh, let's go for a surf. Oh, let's go for a walk by the ocean. And it was amazing to me to enjoy things with people that I enjoy. I love that people here get up at the crack of dawn and are going for a run.
Kelly:They're so active. They're going for a swim all throughout winter. I think it's a little crazy, but it's amazing. People are appreciating nature here, which I love. And, I would love to learn more about Australian culture.
Kelly:I think there's a lot that I have to learn still.
Jonathan:Arden can tell you everything you wanna know about Lycra and bicycles.
Ardin:That's right.
Kelly:There you go. That's his You're one of those. And
Ardin:you forget I don't know if it's more I mean, you were you were kinda Jonathan was inland for a long time. Yeah. But even as an Australian, I forget just how big it is. Like, I mean, it's big as the it's as big as as large as the Continental US. Yeah.
Ardin:There's just nothing in the middle. Mhmm. It like, it is massive.
Jonathan:Yeah. Absolutely massive. It's an that's an understatement. Kelly, I thank you for kinda opening up about your journey and and your calling and discerning all of that. But, we haven't asked you about when you put your trust in Christ.
Jonathan:What what for you was the turning point when you were like, wow. I actually wanna know this Jesus for myself.
Kelly:I grew up we were a Christmas and Easter type church
Ardin:Yep. Going
Kelly:We were one of those. Probably until I was in middle school for so for the Aussies, that's, year six, year seven. We started going to a nondenominational church, weekly, and they had a really great youth program. Just a fantastic youth program. And at the time, middle school, high school, what'd you call that secondary school here?
Kelly:Year nine. Year nine?
Ardin:Year nine, ten. Don't know.
Jonathan:Arden was in Bolivia. Yeah.
Kelly:Okay. Yeah. I'm asking the wrong person here.
Ardin:Didn't even go to a real school.
Kelly:Well yeah. Okay. So, yeah, that year nine, year 10, I really didn't fit in. We talked earlier about high school being a terrible time. It was a terrible time.
Kelly:Yeah. I'd really did not have friends, to be honest, and felt really insecure, and I was really seeking love. I was seeking approval from my peers, and I wasn't getting it. And, it was it was devastating, you know, for a 15 year old girl. But I was involved in church in in my small group, and I just remember we went to a church camp, and they did this thing where they had us they had a cross on the stage, and they had us write our worst sin on a post it note.
Kelly:I don't even remember what I wrote on it, but I put it up on the cross, and then they covered it, and then they were singing. Oh, I I can't I always call it the wrong name, but I call it Everlasting, and I think it's by Hillsong. Yeah. Yeah. Everlasting Your Light We Shine.
Kelly:Yeah. That see? Yes. Time. Yeah.
Kelly:Every time. Sure. I should know this. But, yeah, I remember they were playing that song when they revealed the cross, and I just had the Lord just gave me this revelation that, you know, I'm seeking love from all these people and I'm being denied, but he actually loves me for exactly who I am, and he will love me forever. Everlasting.
Kelly:Like, he will be around forever, and he will always love me. And that was just what I needed to hear in the moment. And, yeah, it just changed everything for me.
Jonathan:That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that story.
Ardin:Even back then, Australia had had an inroad.
Kelly:Oh, yeah. No. We, as Americans in that stage, we loved Hillsong. All of it.
Jonathan:If there's anyone who's maybe struggling with burnout or, yeah, maybe they're just tired of how they're volunteering in ministry, you know, maybe Arden wants to get out of this podcast gig.
Ardin:That would be so good.
Jonathan:Right. What would you, is there any resources that you found helpful, you know, websites, thinkers, authors that you found helpful to sort of restore your spirit, your soul in this?
Kelly:Yeah. It's a great question. There was one sermon that I listened to on a podcast that just really changed it for me, and, of course, I can't think of it now. But it was about the story of Elijah. And, you know, Elijah had just massacred, what, 200 prophets of Baal.
Kelly:And then was it Jezebel that threatened him, and he just ran. And, the Lord hid him, and he fed him, and he ate, and he slept. And he ate, and he slept. And God didn't say anything. And then he got up, and he walked to the to the mountain, I think, and God still didn't say anything.
Kelly:And then, you know, Elijah cries out, and he's like, I'm the only one left. Like, why aren't you answering my prayers? God eventually comes in a whisper, and I think answers him and said, I will take care of these things. And what that taught me is that you have to take care of your body first. We are spiritual beings, but we are living in a body, and we are designed that way.
Kelly:And so we have to take care of our body. We have to get sleep. We have to get nutrition. We have to get those stable things of, okay, are you getting in the sun? Are you being outside?
Kelly:You have to have social connection and take care of yourself and be healthy in that way first. And the Lord's in that, but it's hard to connect with God if you're exhausted. You know, it's hard to have a a clear mind when you're exhausted and you haven't eaten. So there's that. And I think there's also John Mark Comer has really been quite powerful in this time.
Kelly:His book, the ruthless elimination of hurry, I think is just so helpful, so practical of healthy spiritual disciplines of taking care of mind, body, spirit. I think those are good practices to kinda put in place.
Jonathan:Thank you, Kelly, so much for coming. Really appreciate it. Would love to, catch up on your stories somewhere down the line.
Kelly:Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's been real fun.
Ardin:Thanks for coming.
Kelly:Yeah. Thanks.
Ardin:Well, like I said, that didn't quite go in the direction I thought it was gonna go in, but what an interesting story.
Jonathan:Yeah. I was really impressed to hear how much learning and processing she's done, since returning back from, the mission field. And just hats off to her. I mean, a lot a lot of people wouldn't take that bold of a step, bold of a move to say, I'm gonna go and, to spend that much time in a context foreign to them. But, yeah, I really hope people take note of what she said about not trusting the Lord in the ministry.
Jonathan:So so often we infuse our own glory, our own power, our own agenda in the ministry that we're trying to do, and God's like, I'm not gonna let this work because you're trying to take all the credit. Just take your hands off it. Let me get the credit, and then things will go how they're supposed to go. So, yeah, I hope people really can appreciate what she shared there.
Ardin:Another amazing episode, doctor Jay.
Jonathan:And we just gotta say, shout out to Katie McGregor. She's doing an amazing job to put this together.
Ardin:She makes it all work. And by the time you all hear the final product, it'll be incredible. See you next time.