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In the Hidden Money podcast, you'll learn how you can legally use the tax code to your financial advantage. There’s wealth inside the tax code. Taxes aren’t the enemy.
Most people hate taxes (and pay more than they should). But when you view taxes only as an evil expense, you miss out on legal ways to grow your wealth. Unlock the secrets to saving tax and building wealth with the Hidden Money Podcast! 🎧💰 Hosted by Mike Pine and Kevin Schneider.
Mike Pine: How do you utilize
these incentives to grow your
business, to grow your financial
freedom, and let the IRS help pay
for it?
That's why they exist.
Kevin Schneider: We're not saying, "Hey,
we're gonna go spend a bunch of money
and go travel and deduct it, and the
government's gonna pay for my trip."
The government never pays for your
trip because if you spend $20,000 on
an officer retreat your $20,000 of cash
out is gonna save you your tax rate.
So if you're in the 20% tax bracket and
you spend $20,000
Mike Pine: Saves you $4,000.
Or if you're in the 37%,
it saves you you $7,400.
Kevin Schneider: If your tax
rate's 40%, BOOM, the government's
paying for 40% of that trip.
Mike Pine: Welcome to this episode
of the Hidden Money Podcast.
We're gonna talk about something
kind of fun, interesting.
Um, some parts of work for everyone
can actually be pleasurable.
I mean, for me, it's reading the tax
code, especially when they come out
with a tax law, reading it at, late at
night, reading the bill, digesting it,
coming out with a podcast the next day.
That's exciting for me.
But my wife would rather
travel, and I enjoy that, too.
Did you know that it's ordinary and
necessary, from the IRS perspective,
for people who own a business or who
are creating a business to travel?
Kevin, expenses, if they are ordinary
and necessary in the business you're
in, are they deductible for taxes?
Yes.
So let me get this straight.
If we were required to grow our business
to go down to an event, a convention,
down in Cancun, and they paid for
our travel, we had to pay for any
ancillary stuff we did for business
because it was growing our business,
Kevin Schneider: Mm-hmm
Mike Pine: would a lot
of that be deductible?
Kevin Schneider: All of it would
be deductible for the most part.
Now, there's entertainment in
there and stuff like that, meals.
Um, but generally speaking, if it's
ordinary and necessary for your
business for you to go to Cancun
because there's an event there,
there's a big client there, whatever
Mike Pine: it is,
Kevin Schneider: then yes,
that's 100% ordinary and
Mike Pine: necessary.
Mackenzie, please cue our first photo here
We, Kevin and
Kevin Schneider: That are,
those aren't my legs No
Mike Pine: those aren't my legs.
No.
The- those are my sexy legs, and
you don't look at my wife's legs.
Those are, those are for me and me only.
This is my wife and I in Cancun.
Kevin and I work with this
company that does some incredible
tax benefits for our clients.
They needed to have an education
and due diligence seminar, and
they chose to go to Cancun for it.
They actually flew us down, Kevin and I.
Kevin and I said, "Hey, we gotta
travel to Cancun for three days?
They're giving us a room?"
And those were nice rooms, too.
Was your room as nice as mine?
Oh, yeah.
They were nice.
That's the balcony of my room,
and this is sunset-- or sunrise.
Um, I'm not sure Kevin saw many sunrises.
We could talk about that in
one of the Unleashed episodes.
Oh.
But, uh, we saw the sunrise,
and our kids were asleep.
Now, granted, I had-- we had
to pay for our kids' travel.
My wife's travel wasn't included.
That was, that was, came out of our funds.
But they flew us, me down, they flew
Kevin down, and they paid for these rooms.
And the rooms were big
enough for our kids.
And we had to work during this event.
There was a lot of networking,
a lot of work, and we brought
a lot of business from that
Kevin Schneider: networking event.
Specifically this
Mike Pine: event ⦠ordinary necessary.
But we weren't working the whole time.
Cue the next picture, please
This is my wife and I 30 feet deep
off the coast of Cancun scuba diving.
The scuba trip was not tax deductible.
We, we got flown down there.
We worked for two and a half days, played
for almost, I don't know, half a day
once and a quarter day another time.
Went scuba diving.
Did you know going on a scuba diving
trip like this, which we don't do very
often, going scuba diving, the biggest
expense is travel and then hotel room?
Mm-hmm.
Our travel was helped for by the, the
networking business that we work with.
The room was comped.
All I had to do is pay for my kids' travel
and pay 400 bucks for a scuba trip, and
the IRS subsidizes the big portion of
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
So- That's a pretty cool deal.
And so my portionâ¦
So I was there with
you, and it was a blast.
Mike Pine: We don't have
pictures of that, and
Kevin Schneider: we'll talk about
Mike Pine: that on the
next- ⦠Unleashed episode.
Kevin Schneider: that- ⦠on
a future episode.
But we took a trip, so this canâ¦
You know, we were super lucky to have
someone pay for us to go to their event.
But you and I, we had such a grueling tax
planning season in October, November, and
December of last year that in December
we're like, "Dude, we are, we're drained.
Like, we have got to get out of here.
We have been working so hard in
the business, pushing the limits
as business owners and hitting
our, our max of consultations
and all these tax planning deals
Mike Pine: deals that we're doing But,
but the next year was about to begin, and
we did not have our next year's strategy
Kevin Schneider: have our next
year's strategy figured out yet.
We didn't.
So we actually decided to
take a, a partner retreat.
Mm-hmm.
So this partner retreat, Mike and I,
and we took our families, and this
would be the picture that I have for us.
This is me and my wife in Colorado,
and this was a tax deduction.
So our, our wives are
officers of the company.
They are very s- big strategic
partners in our business, as
most closely held businesses are.
Your spouse is a big
influence on your business.
Mike Pine: We don't make any big
decision without Ty saying yes.
Yes.
And I make none without
Kevin Schneider: I gotta say
And so we actually got to
deduct our airfare as officers.
We deducted our stays.
We deducted our meals while out there.
Now, we talked a lot of business.
We were talking business in hot tubs,
on the mountain, in the ski slopes.
But w- those were ordinary necessary
expenses because we needed to get away.
It is very ordinary that when you're
self-employed and you're in the hustle
and bustle of your neighborhood, taking
kids to and from gym t- and you have
an office with staff, it is hard to
sit down and devote dedicated time to
planning and strategy on your business.
It is very reasonable for us to get out
of our normal comfort and environment
and just solely focus on the business.
Now, we're gonna go ski.
We're gonna go to dinner.
We're gonna
Mike Pine: We're going to have-
And that'sâ¦
Yes, the skiing part's entertainment.
The dinners during the days
we're working, that's 50%
Kevin Schneider: deductible.
Yeah.
But all that's ordinary necessary
Mike Pine: for our business.
Except the
Kevin Schneider: Except
the entertainment part.
And so we got to utilize travel
inside of our firm as a tax
deduction, as a, as a partner retreat.
Mike Pine: let's be honest about it,
the goals, the strategy we came up
with for 2026, all of that stems from
that week that we spent out there.
Yeah.
And I mean, we worked, but we had a good
Kevin Schneider: too, when we weren't
working.
That's right.
And this isn't just for, you know, there's
so many other vacations, quote unquote
vacations or trips you can do, but travel
could be a major tax deduction in your,
in your repertoire of your tax plan.
Many business owners have husband/wife,
um, dynamics in their business.
Uh, your children could be
involved in your business.
Yeah.
Um, there's many number of things.
You could own, and a very popular one
that we do almost every single, with
every single one of our clients, is if
you own a rental property, a short-term,
long-term rental, and let's say you own
a beach house and you own a mountain
house, and you live in the DFW Metroplex,
it's very reasonable for you to go manage
your property in Florida, to go manage
that ski lodge you have in Colorado.
You have to travel there.
Your airfare's deductible.
Your meals while a- apart from your,
away from your home are deductible.
There are so many ways, and it's
saying you're managing your property.
You're going to that Florida property
to check on it, paint it, stage it,
get it, you know, clean it up, get
it ready for the next wave of guests.
Whatever you're doing to manage
that property, it is an ordinary
necessary expense for you to manage it
Mike Pine: have to be reasonable, right?
And documentation is so
Kevin Schneider: Absolutely.
Now, we have to be reasonable, right?
And not-
Mike Pine: key here.
You can't go stay at your rental property
for three weeks, fly first class and work
one day there and deduct the whole thing.
But let's be honest, everyone who
runs a short-term rental, they're not
spending a lot of time just chilling
when they go to their property.
Um, as long as it's ordinary, necessary,
reasonable, not extravagant, um, it's,
it's a hundred percent deductible.
Kevin Schneider: 100%.
Mike Pine: percent.
Now, here's some other cool things.
I mean, we've got a lot of clients that
have worked their way out of their day
jobs, and now they have two, three,
four STRs, uh, short-term rentals all
over the country, and they're traveling
to them to work on them once a year.
Um, but they're trying to expand and
like we had a client that knew nothing
about the Northeast, but really, really
was interested in getting a cabin
for rent up in a, a short-term rental
up in Maine, in the woods in Maine.
So they went up and they did market
research and stayed in a couple
cabins, a couple days each, trying to
figure out which offers the best guest
experience that they felt comfortable
based on their experience they could
market and make a lot of money.
And it was working.
I mean, they were out not just checking
out the cabins, not just checking out
the woods and the trails around, checking
out the towns, checking out how would
we invent and sell a guest experience
to make this a good short-term rental?
Because they're already in the
business, trade a business of being
short-term rental operators, they're
trying to expand their business,
all of that was tax deductible.
They didn't take a vacation.
They were working, but theyâ¦
It, it's pretty nice when you enjoy
your job, and they were enjoying their
Kevin Schneider: and
working the whole time.
Yeah.
So it's definitely possible.
Um, now there, this isâ¦
So the IRS knows the biggest
areas that people cheat.
Yeah.
People cheat a lot.
People cheat in travel, meals, and
when entertainment was a thing back in
2017 when we could deduct those Cowboy
Suite tickets and all those other
good things, those are off the table.
But they know people cheat in travel.
And so just know if you're doing any
sort of traveling for your, for your
business, for your officer retreats,
be reasonable, document, keep minutes
of your meetings when you're out.
Yes.
Just make sure you're not just saying
like, "Oh, yeah, we went out to, we
went, we went skiing for two weeks.
My business needed me to
go skiing for two weeks."
Okay.
Well, prove that.
Like, what were you doing
Mike Pine: Monday through Friday?
Kevin Schneider: through Friday?
Mike Pine: Well, if you're
selling skis, that would work.
But if you're a CPA,
that's not gonna work.
No.
Um, that would be entertainment,
it would be non-deductible.
But like Kevin says,
documentation's the important thing.
If it's true, like
we're-- Don't cheat, guys.
But hey, it's summer, our
kids are out of school.
If there is a good business reason for
you to travel, bring your family with you
and make it a working vacation, and let
the IRS pay for a part of your vacation.
There's no reason not to.
Yeah.
Especially if it helps grow your
business or creates a business.
Now, be careful.
If you don't already have the
business, any time you spend,
including money you spendâ¦
Let's say you don't own a short-term
rental, but you're thinking about
getting one in Summit County, Colorado.
So you go out there, you stay at
a couple places, you do a bunch of
travel, you do your due diligence.
That is not gonna qualify for business,
because you're not already in business.
The IRS calls that personal
investment time and expenses.
But once you have a short-term
rental business and you're
expanding it, it works.
Um, and we're just
talking about two things.
Like, what business does not need
to travel these days to grow?
Some businesses don't.
We got a g- a guy, a friend that we work
with who are a business consultant, and
he's expanding big time out in Arizona.
He's got to travel a lot out there.
They're gonna probably
open an office out there.
What's keeping him from taking
his wife and kids out there to
go look for apartments or go look
for a new office space, right?
I mean, to save money so they're
not paying for a hotel every time.
That can be a business expense.
Th- just think about how can you increase
your profit in your business, grow your
business, and travel, and let the IRS
compensate you or help you pay for it.
That's what the tax code's for.
That's what these incentives are for.
We don't-- Don't cheat.
Cheating gets you in jail.
Fraud puts you in jail.
We ain't, we ain't going to
jail for any of our clients.
No.
You shouldn't go to jail either.
Now, I've never been in one.
I suspect it's not a fun experience.
But you can do this legally
because the incentives exist to
try to help you grow a business.
If your business grows, the economy grows.
You hire more people, the economy grows.
People can pay more in taxes.
That's why these incentives are
there, and that's, that's what we do
on this podcast, is explain how do
you utilize these incentives to grow
your business, to grow your financial
freedom, and let the IRS help pay
for it.
That's, that's why they exist.
Kevin Schneider: Yeah.
And we're not s- we're not saying, "Hey,
we're gonna go spend a bunch of money
and go travel and deduct it, and the
government's gonna pay for my trip."
The government never pays for your
trip because the, the way the tax
deductions work, if you spend $20,000
on an officer retreat with hotel, food,
uh, airline tickets, your- Rental cars
rental cars, your, your $20,000
of cash out is gonna save you your
tax rate, is what your savings are.
So if you're in the 20% tax bracket and
you spend $20,000
Mike Pine: Saves you $4,000 Or if
you're in the 37%, it saves you
you $7,400.
Yes.
So right?
⦠you're not, you're not- If you spend
20K, the government's not paying
you 20K.
Kevin Schneider: but you're gonna-
They're paying a third of it
they're paying for a third or whatever.
If your tax rate's 40%, boom, the, the
government's paying for 40% of that trip.
And trips don't have to be by airline.
It could be your personal vehicle.
And now we've introduced a different area
of the tax code with auto deductions that
most business, um, um, owners take is
deducting their vehicle for tax purposes.
Right.
And you see that all the time, and you see
this in car dealers even know this stuff,
to where they're trying to push, "Oh,
the government will pay for your car."
Well, they'll pay for some of it
if there's 100% business use or if
it's over 6,000 pounds and we can
deduct the whole thing with bonus.
There's ways to utilize
your car for travel.
There's ways to utilize it and take
it on that officer retreat, too.
So just before you s- book a trip,
maybe a major trip, let's make
sure it's not excessive, right?
Um, but speak to your CPA, speak to your
strategist about it because there's ways
to ma- to make a defensible argument
that it's ordinary for your business and
Mike Pine: we get to deduct it.
Yeah.
I mean, it's legitimate, it's
legal, and hey, it's summertimes.
Let's go, guys.
Utilize it.
And if you, if, if you talk to your tax
person and they're like, "No, that's
cheating," find a different tax person.
Yeah.
It's not cheating.
A lot of people cheat at it, but if
you're truly using it for legitimate
business purposes, it ain't cheating.
It's smart.
It's doing the right thing.
It's being a good steward
Kevin Schneider: It's
doing the right thing.
It's being a good steward and growing your
business.
Yeah.
And you're enjoying it.
Enjoy your business.
We work hard.
Utilize your business for pleasure.
Utilize it for that enjoyment,
but be smart with it, too.
So thank you for joining us.
I hope you liked our little
pictures there and w- just a little
insight of kind of how we run it.
We're notâ¦
Anything that we mention on this podcast,
we would not mention unless Mike or I are
comfortable doing it ourselves, and so
this is stuff that we put into practice.
We practice what we preach.
We, we limit and try to maxim-
We limit our taxable income,
maximize our deductions legally
and safely, and you can, too.
So join us next time on the next
Mike Pine: Hidden Money podcast.
Um- Did I, did I mention, though, when
we went scuba diving, I tried to laminate
some treasury regulations so I could
take them down while I was scuba diving?
And I think at that point, if I was truly
studying it, we might've been able to
deduct my cost of the scuba, probably not
Kevin Schneider: wife's, but, um, Becca-
You were
Mike Pine: were gonna
read some treasury regs.
Like,
Kevin Schneider: I can't imagine a
Mike Pine: better thing.
I don't know if that's ordinary- Scuba
diving in beautiful area, reading tax
Kevin Schneider: don't know if that's
Mike Pine: ordinary
Kevin Schneider: or
Mike Pine: necessary.
Yeah, I mean, every time I read the regs,
Kevin Schneider: code Yeah, I know.
Every time I do that, it's
Mike Pine: and our clients?
Yeah.
Okay.
I-- But, but sometimes, um, sometimes
you have to put the wife before
Kevin Schneider: That's right.
Tax deduction.
So thank you for joining us on
this episode of Hidden Money.
Please like, comment, and subscribe,
and we'll see you next week.
Thank you for listening to this episode.
Revo Taxpayer Advocacy LLC is not licensed
or registered as a CPA firm with the
Texas State Board of Public Accountancy.
I'm a CPA, Kevin's a CPA.
We have a lot of CPAs on staff that are
licensed and held to the same standards.
However, when we decided to be
revolutionary and change our
name to Revell Taxpayer Advocacy,
the state board would not allow
that and let us remain licensed.
They say we have to have one
of our names in the firm for
us to be licensed as a firm.
And guess what?
It's not us that's important.
It's revolutionizing the way you feel
about taxes and saving you money.
We are advocates for you, so we were
willing to drop our firm license even
though we're still individually licensed.