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Founded in 1909, UFA Co-operative Limited is an Alberta-based agricultural co-operative with more than 120,000 member-owners. UFA’s network comprises more than 114 bulk fuel and Cardlock Petroleum locations, 34 Farm & Ranch Supply stores and a support office in Calgary, AB. Independent Petroleum Agents and over 1,000 UFA employees provide products, services and agricultural solutions to farmers, ranchers, members and commercial customers in Alberta, British Columbia, and Saskatchewan.
VO: [00:00:00] It takes a certain kind of ambition to do what farmers do. Between the hours and the hard labor, to the public scrutiny and bureaucratic maze running, it's not an easy task. While the agriculture industry feeds millions, quietly tilling and producing behind the scenes, many forget that our food comes from the hands of real people, with real stories.
Join us as we share stories from those with boots on the ground and unearth unique perspectives on agriculture's biggest conversations. It's time to grab your shovel and get to work. I'm Don Schaefer, and this is Digging In with UFA.[00:01:00]
Water. It's a transformative, adaptable, and altogether immaculate element that keeps life flourishing. From an agricultural perspective, how do we use, regulate, and ensure that the water we utilize is both plentiful and accessible? Today, we dig in on water and agriculture.
There's a fine balance between the work you do and the joy it instills. For many folks, those two lines rarely cross. However, for many ranchers and farmers, their joy is their work. Especially when it comes to caring for the land that gives so much of itself to our well lived lives. What does it mean to nourish the land we live on?
This is Stephen Hughes.
Stephen Hughes: Stephen Hughes is my name. Owner, operator of Chinook Ranch [00:02:00] Limited, along with my father and my daughters. We're a ranch, a cow calf operation, located southwest of Longview, Alberta, nestled in the eastern slopes of the Rocky Mountains. I feel lucky and blessed to spend my life working in this environment.
We're very proud of the way that we manage our grasslands, especially our native grass ecosystem that we live in, and the care and quality and, um, concern we have for the land that we live off of, and the water that we use, and the welfare of our animals. It's an honour and a privilege to raise food animals in this world, I think.
It's a good life. My grandfather came from England in 1928 and put this ranch together through the, basically through the 40s and into 1950s. But definitely was drawn to it. If you're not drawn to it, it doesn't matter. I mean, it's too onerous, too demanding to do it if your heart's not in it. I like to joke that I've never really been good for anything else, but I'm pretty good at ranching.
VO: When you do what you [00:03:00] love, the joy of your work can't help but shine through. You see the nuance in the dedication of not only the work that's done, But the work is done right.
Stephen Hughes: I am proud to have received some recognition in the industry, like Environmental Stewardship Award from Alberta Beef Producers and named McDonald's Flagship Farmer for Canada.
I think what differentiates me is I'm very aware of the social license piece around keeping people feeling good about eating beef and what we do in agriculture in Canada or really Alberta specifically but Canada. So I'm very willing to go out share the story of what we do well but I tell you I feel like I'm doing it on behalf of a strong industry.
Something people have to remember is like if I'm not doing a good job with my land and my cattle that is. My income. So if I don't do that, I don't stay in business. But the flip side of that is, and that's becoming like something my grandfather would have never [00:04:00] understood or even been willing to engage on is this whole piece around social license, the pressures of society.
He knew physical work that I never will, but I know financial and social pressure that he would have scoffed at was even possible. So that's a big part of what we do now. Well, you know, on any given day I wake up and I'm just the same person I ever was, right? I don't put on a McDonald's jacket or anything.
You know what, that very much was an honor and it was a pretty big process to go through, to apply for it and the interview process and the due diligence they did. But it's a partnership. I mean, they're looking for ways to improve, frankly, that company in particular, and I'm not here to be a honk for them, has done a lot for the beef industry in Canada, in terms of spending money that we really don't have on our industry and promoting it and trying to lead, help us help ourselves, as one guy used to know, like to say.
And in the end, [00:05:00] if they sell more beef with this improved social profile and highlighting best practices of their producers, that's a win for everybody.
VO: Like the well oiled machines of any robust factory, it takes a lot of moving parts to make the agricultural industry move. But before it all even begins, it starts with water.
Between irrigation, produce, hydration, infiltration, nothing grows without water.
As the agricultural industry changes season over season, how does the use and utilization of water change with it? For that, we turn to the experts. This is Richard Phillips.
Richard Phillips: My name is Richard Phillips. I'm the General Manager of the Bow River Irrigation District. Our office is in Vauxhall, Alberta. I've been at the Bow River Irrigation District, or BRID as I will call it, for over 28 years now.
I began as the District Engineer and then became General [00:06:00] Manager over 20 years ago. I'm involved in other water organizations as well, as part of this, currently serving as vice chair of the Alberta Irrigation Districts Association, which represents all of Alberta's irrigation districts. I'm the chair of Irrigating Alberta Inc., which is the consortium of irrigation districts that was formed to participate in the Alberta Irrigation Modernization Program. and participate on various other water related boards and committees. In brief terms, my passion about agriculture grew from my position. I was born and raised in Lethbridge and certainly aware of agriculture.
Grandparents had farms, but I was not ever actively involved in farms in any sense, but aware of agriculture growing up in that small city. Was working with an engineering consulting firm in Calgary and saw the opportunity to move to the BRID to become district engineer, which meant moving from a big cluttered city to the wide open spaces in a small town, which just sounded like a much better lifestyle to my wife and I have never regretted that move for even an [00:07:00] instant.
And then again, even though my focus was engineering, you can't serve all these farmers and be involved in this agriculture without becoming passionate about agriculture, seeing all the good things that happen in this region.
VO: It's difficult to overstate the necessity of water, not just for survival, but for industries the world over.
With every season, a new crop, and with every new crop, an exceptional amount of necessary water usage. When it comes to replenishing, where does this water come from, and how do we collect it?
Stephen Hughes: The topic here is water, probably first and foremost. Every day, honestly, no matter which day of the year it is, the first topic is, do the cattle have water, right?
And that's number one concern every day. Is the water available because it's 30 above? Is the water available because it's 30 below? And we developed and worked on a lot of means to develop water to our cattle, which has benefited our environment, like our riparian [00:08:00] areas, but also very much our ability to graze, rotationally graze.
And the health of the cattle and delivering clean water to them every day of the year is actually number one. I mean, the first nutrient we are going to die from a lack of is water. And you ask people that, and that's generally not the answer. Right, but it's so paramount to our existence.
Richard Phillips: Where does the water come from?
It's a great question. And all of our water comes from the sky. You know, originally that's where it all starts out. It falls out of the sky as rain or snow. Some of it has been trapped in glaciers for thousands and thousands of years. Some of it sits in shallow aquifers. Some of it sits in deep aquifers.
But All water falls out of the sky to begin with. So then how does the farmer get that water? Again, the stuff that falls at the right time on their crop. You know, that's a bonus and that's the best way to receive water. Certainly, water is diverted from our rivers for the irrigation network. We do not use groundwater for irrigation in Alberta.
At least not on any measurable extent. There may be something happening somewhere, [00:09:00] but I'm not aware of it. With irrigation districts, it's 100 percent surface water. So it's predominantly snowmelt in the spring and early summer, as well as rainfall that are feeding our rivers. And then of course, outside of the irrigation districts, there's a much higher reliance on groundwater, as I understand it, but still using what surface water is available.
And again, a lot of Southern Alberta does not have good quality groundwater resources available. We really are very dependent on surface water in most parts of the region, as I understand it.
Stephen Hughes: I like the idea that most, if not all, of the irrigation water in Alberta is surface water. That's fairly, uh, renewable, sustainable resource when you're talking runoff.
That's actually a pretty important point about the sustainability of that industry. For us, we're predominantly using groundwater in the foothills here. Either springs or we've drilled a lot of wells. And then there's that whole relationship between how you're maintaining the health of your range. If you have good grass cover, when you get a heavy rain, you're not having that water run off.
You're having that grass slow [00:10:00] it down, it soaks in, it infiltrates into the ground, you're recharging. The water that you're pumping to the cattle is being recharged by the water that comes from the sky system like ours in the right now. I know where some wells are our water tables low because we've been dry really since 2017 and.
We adjust numbers or what cattle are there accordingly. And I expect when we start to see higher precipitation levels, we will see our water table improve again. But we're, I think we're good at, especially on this place, like we can't sort of over outuse our resources with the relationship of how many cattle we can graze in the winter.
We are just like, everything's in balance. And it's, I guess that's probably something I'm pretty proud of, is how we operate within. the limitations and the abilities of our ecosystem to not harm it, but to enhance it and use it to the best of our ability and for what it was meant to do. [00:11:00] For us it's, yeah, rain is, gosh, rain is just the most beautiful, just the most beautiful thing that can happen.
And, uh, for me, it can never rain too much, and usually it ends up raining not enough. But we're in a grass and water business, so I love rain. That's how we recharge our
Richard Phillips: water resources. With no water, there's no agriculture. It's that simple. And the beauty of irrigation, of course, is we then have a relatively stable water supply, so that in those drought years when the dry land is suffering, the irrigated crops are still producing excellent yields.
And it's exciting to see that stability, the amount of output that comes off the irrigated land, hard not to be passionate about something that does so much good. I mean, we love to throw out numbers and being an engineer, I'm really a numbers guy, but again, the one number we always like to throw out because it's based in fact, it is absolutely a fact is that.
Even though our irrigation districts occupy under four and a half percent of our agricultural land base in Alberta, 27 percent of total agricultural products by dollar value comes out of those irrigation districts. So [00:12:00] that's huge productivity and it's hard not to be excited about numbers like that.
VO: When we look at irrigation districts and the orchestration of water distribution throughout the province. It's a resounding testament to just how important accessible water is for agriculture at large. According to the Government of Alberta, as of 2024, irrigation accounts for over 44 percent of allocated water in the province.
Richard Phillips: Back in the summer of 1920, they were looking at ways to get Alberta's economy fired up again, and they recognized the stabilizing force that irrigation and agriculture have been over decades in Alberta. So they wanted to increase the amount of activity in irrigation. The program was designed to essentially allow irrigation modernization to proceed at a much more rapid pace than it had in the past.
by injecting more cash into it with the idea that districts could then do projects that might not happen for many years in a relatively short period of time. They brought [00:13:00] in the Canada Infrastructure Bank as a lending partner. So the program essentially is funded with Alberta government putting in 30 percent as a grant.
The remaining 70 percent of the costs are borne by the irrigation districts, but 50 percent of that Total cost is a long term interest bearing loan to us from the Canada Infrastructure Bank. So we're putting most of the projects involve replacing canals with pipelines. There's also reservoir projects as part of the program though expanding to existing reservoirs, building one new reservoir, possibly some other reservoir work.
The idea is the program is supposed to be wrapped up in 28. It will likely carry on one more year for a couple of the modernization projects and perhaps two or three more years, whatever it takes to finish reservoirs, because those are big, complicated projects.
VO: With the ebb and flow between the drought and deluge season over season, the realities of this allocation and what our water is being used for, especially during lower rainfall seasons, it isn't surprising that [00:14:00] some of the public have concerns.
Especially when it comes to more unpredictable weather patterns in recent years. What are some of the prevalent misconceptions about the use of water in ag? And, how do we address them?
Richard Phillips: I think the biggest problem is perhaps public misperception of the state of the nation with regards to water, so to speak.
I mean, prime example being a summer of 24. This was not a drought by any definition of the word, and yet we've heard endless stories about the ongoing drought, when in fact precipitation across the irrigated region has ranged from 100 to 130 percent of normal this summer. That's hard to categorize as a drought, but people are determined that we're in drought, and darn it, we're going to stay there, it appears in people's minds.
So, you know, even when things are going good, people don't want to believe good news, it seems, you know, other challenges is this misperception that irrigation is using most of the water, what we are doing is using most of the licensed water, but most of the water in Alberta still leaves the province headed for other destinations.
So we're the biggest water user. But we're not using most of [00:15:00] the water. Certainly water supply itself can be a challenge because back in 23, there was a real drought. It impacted some districts more than others. My district really was not impacted by it, but those that were impacted, then, you know, rationing, uh, their users to less water than ideal, still enough that they got a lot of great crops.
It was still a very productive year, but at the end of the year, reservoir levels were drawn down, which then creates concern about the coming year. Now, again, this year, reservoir levels have rebounded nicely because it was a good year with a lot of rain. and low irrigation demand. So it's always changing.
Again, it's a great business providing water to farmers. And a lot of people just can't accept how good it really is. So they're always looking for bad news when in fact, it's a good news story. You know, we've always had extremes of too hot, too cold, too dry, too wet. And we continue to see those challenges.
And You know, it can flip very quickly from being too dry to too wet and vice versa. That's what makes water management challenging and interesting. Certainly we have a large population base relative to the size of our rivers in the Southern portion [00:16:00] of the province in the South Saskatchewan river basin that creates challenges.
Again, we use a lot of water for irrigation, wanting to maximize our use of water that creates challenges. What I personally find a little bizarre and honestly disappointing is, it seems like we have a generation of people that are being brought up to believe that any day that the temperature isn't basically right on normal, the precipitation isn't right on normal, well, that's blame it on climate change, you know, a little warmer than normal is climate change, a little colder is climate change, a little drier, climate change, a little wetter, climate change.
I'm not saying climate change doesn't exist. I am not a climate change denier. But you have to acknowledge that again, weather has always been absolutely crazy on the prairies and continues to be so.
Stephen Hughes: I mean, I live a life that's so tied to the rhythm and nuances of mother nature. I've seen it all. Climate change.
I don't know. I mean, I guess we've been changing since the dinosaurs disappeared. It isn't necessarily negative, but agriculture is not. The problem, I mean, whatever's going on, I [00:17:00] know for me, like for one, there's nothing better at sequestering carbon than native grassland ecosystem. So, we're doing our part, and we need food.
So it's funny that we so often seem to be the ones that are made to almost be in an apologetic position. If you've ever traveled, to further Richard's point about the output of Southeast Alberta or Southern Alberta, you go from Lethbridge to Medicine Hat and that corridor and the value add that you see along the way, like McCain's plant, Cavendish, the industry and the value that has been created in that corridor.
Because of water and irrigation, it's phenomenal and it's tough that they're made, you know, in some cases to justify using water to produce food, but I tell you, we never pick on people that are using water to water a golf course or. You know, make beer. Those things are untouched. Like, it's low hanging fruit to pick on agriculture.
Richard Phillips: And of course, those who are really [00:18:00] keen on climate change will suggest that climate change has only become a huge issue in the last few decades. So, you know, what caused the big fire a hundred years ago? I mean, again, the fact is nature has always been both kind and harsh. And, uh, you know, we've always had huge fires.
We've always had big droughts. We've always had big floods. Again, with climate change, there's every Probability that they may become a little more frequent, perhaps a little more severe, but not so drastically that it's outside the realm of what we've already experienced. And to me, the key with climate change is adaptation.
That's not to say that we shouldn't try to mitigate where we can, but the important thing is to recognize that if it is happening, which it probably is, we need to adapt. And when it comes down to water, that adaptation means being able to grab water when it's available so that you have it stored for use.
When it isn't, it's really that simple.
VO: Setting up an irrigation system and obtaining a water license for a farm involves many costs. There are initial setup cost, yearly maintenance cost, and water license and [00:19:00] fee cost. To put things in perspective, according to the 2021 census for agriculture, the average farm size in the province is approximately 1, 200 acres.
That's about the size of 900 football fields or 1.9 square miles for this size of farm. The initial setup cost range between 1.2 million to 2 million depending on the type of crops grown soil and local climate with yearly cost ranging between 20 5K and 50 k. On top of this is water license cost, which can be anywhere from 10 K to 50 k and yearly fees to maintain the license, which can be upwards of 5K.
When it's all said and done, the average farm spends about 2. 3 million to set up and operate an irrigation system in its first year, and approximately 100, 000 to maintain it each year after that.
Richard Phillips: The cost of [00:20:00] irrigation, there's several different factors that go into that. For people in an irrigation district, they have to pay fees to the irrigation district annually. That's a very small portion of the cost. The biggest single cost, likely the irrigation equipment itself, to put up a center pivot sprinkler with the main line of the pump, looking at at least 2, 000 per acre to get a system set up.
Then if you're in an irrigation district, irrigation districts charge capital asset charges to essentially gain the right to irrigate the land. You know, we have a finite number of acres that we're allowed to irrigate. So when people are purchasing into the district, they have to pay for the water, water rights, which again, that's the capital asset charge.
That varies from district to district, probably averages somewhere in the order of 2, in the districts. Then there's the power bills that they have to pay. That's far bigger than the fees they pay to the district for annual operation. You know, every drop they pump has to be paid for through power. I'm guessing probably typically around 70 per acre would be a common power expense, depending on whether it's a dry [00:21:00] year or wet year, other costs.
Again, if people are pumping off the rivers, they've got much higher power bills if they're not in an irrigation district, because then they're typically lifting water to a higher level. So they don't have to pay their. Relatively low fees to the district, but they do have to pay the extra power costs of getting water up out of the river onto the lands that they're irrigating.
So it's not cheap to irrigate, but of course the return is there. I mean, my partner
Stephen Hughes: lives Southeast of Lethbridge and she has a quarter there under pivot and that drive from Lethbridge to Madison Hat is. Impressive. If you're into agriculture and you know what you're looking at. I went to university with a guy that probably wouldn't have been able to go home and farm with his brother till McCain's put in a plant there west of Tabor and then the potato contracts that he could get changed his life.
You're not doing any of that without irrigation. It's very impressive what It has added in terms of value to that area and to our economy and to our ability to grow food. It impresses me. [00:22:00]
VO: There are no promises when it comes to expected rainfall or any correct amount of water retained each and every year.
However, there are steps and processes that put a special emphasis on learning to expect the unexpected when surplus is scarce. Knowing that this isn't just a problem for farmers of Alberta. But a countrywide hurdle that agriculture continues to adapt to. Are government bodies doing enough to ensure that farmers have adequate water for production both provincially and nationally?
Richard Phillips: Are governments doing enough to protect water? You know, protection of water has many aspects. There's protecting the physical quantity of water, there's protecting water quality, there's protecting water access. You know, the policy questions around water, so are they doing enough? I would say governments are certainly trying to do the right thing.
With regard to water, often succeeding, perhaps there's room for improvement in some areas. Certainly the Alberta government has a long history of investing in water [00:23:00] management infrastructure. Going back to 1969 is when they began the Irrigation Rehabilitation Program and that still continues today.
That's been an incredibly effective program to allow districts to upgrade and modernize their irrigation systems over the years. The more recent Alberta Irrigation Modernization Program, again, just dovetails on that. Again, that brings federal lending power into the equation, making more capital available to upgrade water infrastructure.
So that's a very positive step. You know, in the past, the federal government played a huge role in water management infrastructure investment through the Prairie Farm Rehabilitation Administration. The PFRA built so much of what we see on the ground still as that infrastructure that we enjoy the legacy of today.
So You know, if you look over the last many decades, both levels of government have done a lot. In recent decades, it's been the provincial government investing in water management infrastructure for the most part, certainly since the PFRA was abandoned, that's been the case. Both governments do take an active [00:24:00] role, I think, in trying to protect water.
Within their policy and jurisdiction mandates, I believe our province is trying to do the right thing. Uh, again, the right thing is tough though, because there's conflicting demands on our water resources, but they try to do the right thing. By and large, they succeed. One area of concern with protecting our water is the threat of aquatic invasive species.
Zebra mussels are well established now from Manitoba East. Those are a real threat to water management infrastructure, and I believe there is a greater role for the federal government to play in trying to prevent the spread of aquatic invasive species. Again, most Canadians live in areas where they're already firmly established and wreaking havoc with water infrastructure.
Perhaps that explains their Relatively low perceived level of enthusiasm and perhaps they care more than I know. I know federal fisheries have been involved in some attempts to deal with aquatic invasive species. But that's a place where government ought to step up their game to protect water in Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia because we don't need those problems that [00:25:00] the rest of the country is facing.
Stephen Hughes: I think that like the 30s, you're not going to now, I don't think, because I mean, if you're talking blowing soil, complete drought, I mean, the infrastructure has been built to really, I think, insulate ourselves against that, you know, like 2023, as Richard alluded to, there was maybe people weren't able to get as much water as they were used to, but still a good year production wise.
For us, it was extremely difficult here in terms of, well, it's the poorest grass growing year I've experienced in my life. Again, though, where a lot of people were struggling with water, the amount of work and money we've spent on developing infrastructure here, watering systems, water troughs, ways to get water out of the ground and deliver it to the cattle.
We were pretty insulated. We had to feed last winter for the first time in 27 years. But water was not the problem. Richard was saying earlier, we're not really in a drought this year. Like, we had a great grass growing year, but this fall has been [00:26:00] extremely open and dry. Our creeks are dry. They're not moving.
It's a concern, but we've done a lot of work. Honestly, it's been us that's made sure we're insulated in terms of our ability to deliver water.
Richard Phillips: There's nothing we can do to avoid a hydrological drought where we just don't have enough water falling out of the sky and therefore enough water on the landscape.
Droughts have always occurred, they always will occur. There's certainly things we can do and are doing though to make those droughts less severe in terms of their impact than what happened, say, back in the drought of the 1930s, even less severe than the drought of the 1980s. Uh, one of them is expansion of irrigation.
Certainly, you know, as long as we've got That portion of land that is guaranteed to be producing good crops and good feed for livestock. There's that resource available locally, which there just wasn't back in the 1930s when irrigation was on such a very small scale in Alberta. Looking at ways to better manage the water both on the small scale, you know, on the farm, whether it's [00:27:00] wells where water quality is suitable to get it up for the cattle, you know, various watering methods to ensure that cattle have water.
On the bigger scale, doing more infrastructure projects to guarantee that we can capture water when it is available. One thing that's very positive right now is our provincial government has recognized the need to look at large scale water storage infrastructure. Again, talked previously about the expansion of two reservoirs and irrigation districts and the creation of one new one.
But again, they've announced that they're taking the design of a relocated ghost dam on the Bow river through the next design phase and onto permitting with the idea of construction. So that will increase, you know, on stream storage there. Several months ago now, they announced the feasibility study for the Aramore Dam, which again would be a large on stream reservoir on the Bow River.
They've announced the feasibility study for the Ardley Dam on the Red Deer River. You know, they're doing the right things, looking at the right things. They're serious about improving Alberta's ability to take our share of water when it's available, which will serve us well in future droughts.
Stephen Hughes: Honestly, we have very little [00:28:00] surface water on the property right now, and we should have a lot.
So, we're a long ways from bouncing out of this, but I'm in the business of being optimistic. So, we're counting on next year working out. We are out here in the agriculture landscape in Alberta, doing the best we can for our land, our animals, and very proud to take care of our water resources. Water is life.
Water is everything.
Richard Phillips: Growing up as a city kid in southern Alberta, not really having that good idea about farming, I did love to go fishing, and one thing I sure didn't realize is that when we were going fishing at the so called lake, they were irrigation reservoirs. You know, southern Alberta outside of the mountains does not have any lakes.
But there's a whole lot of so called lakes that are really irrigation reservoirs. You know, the water management that we do is just vital to the economy. It's vital to our food supply. It's vital to, you know, supporting the broader agricultural industry. But it's also vital to people's enjoyment of the landscape that they just take for granted.
I'm guessing so many people, when they're spending a day on the local [00:29:00] beach here, don't have the slightest clue that they're actually spending a day on an irrigation reservoir. So as we Create this water management infrastructure, which is so extensive in this region. It brings water to industries. It brings water to municipalities that have no other water source.
Certainly it brings water to the farmers, which is the primary purpose, but it creates a whole lot of opportunity for fun, creates a whole lot of, you know, fisheries where otherwise there would just be more dry ground. It just beautifies the whole landscape. And yeah, we take quite a bit of water to do it, but it's water that's being put to good use.
And again, Alberta doesn't use anywhere as close to its legal share of the water most years. So there's certainly room for growth potentially still, but it takes infrastructure to manage that growth, to capture it, the water when it's available. But we have room to make agriculture even better here. And again, as we make agriculture better, make our reservoirs bigger, perhaps add some new ones as well.
It just increases that recreational resource as well, makes life better for everyone, whether or not they recognize that their food is really coming from a farm, [00:30:00] it just makes life better all around as we use our water wisely here. At
VO: the end of the day, we look to our resiliency within ourselves and our communities to make our collective futures as bright as possible. All it will really take is conversations like these, some vulnerability, and a little digging.
Thanks to the support of UFA Cooperative, we're able to share stories from those who live and breathe agriculture. We'd like to thank our guests for sharing their insight into the future of agriculture and for being with us today. For more information and a new episode every month, visit ufa. com. With listeners like you, we'll continue to dig a little deeper here on Digging In with UFA.
I'm Don Schaefer. [00:31:00] Thanks for listening. Another Everything Podcasts production. Visit everythingpodcasts.com, a division of Patterson Media. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast reflect opinions and perspectives from participating guests and not necessarily those of UFA, UFA Cooperatives membership, elected officials, or stakeholders.