Let's Talk About Text - Part 2 | Nov 24, 2025

In this episode, Bryan challenges the common perception of Christianity as a means of escaping the earthly realm. He emphasizes that the faith is often misconstrued as merely waiting for a heavenly rescue, rather than engaging with the teachings of the Bible that focus on life on Earth.

• Christianity is often misunderstood as an escape plan.
• Many believe faith is about waiting for a lifeboat.
• The Bible's teachings focus on life, not evacuation.
• Misconceptions about faith can lead to disillusionment.
• Engaging with scripture reveals deeper meanings.
• Faith should be about living fully on Earth.
• The idea of floating on clouds is a common myth.
• Understanding Christianity requires a shift in perspective.
• The purpose of faith is to enrich our earthly experience.
• Rethinking faith can lead to a more fulfilling life.

What is The Independence Podcast?

The Independence Podcast helps everyday people discover that true freedom isn’t found in self-reliance but in total dependence on Jesus Christ. Each episode blends honest conversation, biblical truth, and practical application to help listeners move beyond emotional devotion toward consistent, daily surrender. Whether you’re new in your faith or longing to grow deeper, you’ll find encouragement to trust God fully, live from His grace, and follow Christ with courage in a world that celebrates independence but neglects dependence on the One who truly sets us free.

Bryan Dunham (00:01)
Let's talk about text, baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the good things. OK. I'm going to stop serenading you this episode. Welcome back, my friends. This is episode ⁓ seven, eight of the Independence podcast. Here on this podcast, we discuss how to be fully dependent followers of Jesus. And this is part two in our series, Let's Talk About Text, Baby.

I'm your host Brian Dunham and today we're going a layer deeper into what this book we call the Bible actually is and what it's actually for. Last week we talked about the Bible's uniqueness, its impact, its power. We talked about how it's banned in so many countries around the world. It's been translated into more languages than any other book ever. All that. I just wanted to start today by reminding you of something that is just absolutely wild. Most Americans own a book.

that could get them imprisoned in other places on this planet. That book, of course, is the Bible. There are countries where simply possessing a Bible is illegal. There are people right now risking their freedom to smuggle Bibles into places where they've been banned. There are believers who will go to great lengths risking their own lives and freedom just to get a copy of this book into their hands. And meanwhile,

In the average American home, there's six to seven copies lying around. was one in the kitchen to in the bedroom, one in the car, you know, one on the shelf we haven't touched in years. My parents had a couple in their bathroom. I'm not recommending that's a place to keep it. My point is just. We have them everywhere. And if you own a book that other people in the world would risk their lives and freedom to.

possess, to read? Shouldn't you at least know what it says? Like, wouldn't you want to? So that's where we're headed today. The bigger question is, what is the point of this book? If you stopped most Christians on the street and asked, hey, well, what's the Bible all about? Most are gonna say, well, Jesus. And listen, that's true. Jesus himself says in John 5.39,

He's talking to some religious leaders and he says, search the scriptures because you believe in them, you have eternal life. But these are the scriptures that testify about me. And in Luke 24, when he's walking on the road to Emmaus, he explained to some believers after his resurrection, how the law, the prophets and the Psalms all point to him. The law of the prophets and the Psalms is like how you and I would refer to the Old Testament.

Jesus is saying all of that is pointing directly to him. So yes, Jesus is the center of the story of the Bible, but I'm afraid too many of us would say, well, if the Bible is then about Jesus, and I know Jesus, I know the story, he came, he died, he rose again, and when I believe that, I get to get out of here one day, then the logical conclusion is, why read it? Like, I've already got the Clis notes, like, I know how it ends.

Anyone with that kind of thought process is a person that does not understand what the point of the Bible is. And I'm not saying that's willful ignorance. I'm saying there's a lot of issues that the Big C Church, we've been complicit in helping people understand that to be the case. So what is the Bible actually for? What's it trying to do? A lot of us grew up in church, I certainly did, with the metaphor being used that the Bible is basically

God's owner's manual for life. You know, as if if you open to page 72, it's going to tell you how to fix your anger or, you know, page 115 is marriage troubleshooting. If you turn to page 505, there's five steps to hearing God's voice in your life. But if you've spent any time in scripture, you know, it's not a range like that. It's not a manual. It's not even a single book. It's a library. It's poetry, prophecy, letters.

story, wisdom, history, prayer, apocalypse. So the question remains then What's the purpose? Well, let me give you a sentence that I think captures the essence of what the Bible is. The Bible is the story of how to live in right relationship to God.

and to others on this earth. I'll say it again. The Bible is the story of how to live in right relationship to God and to others on this earth. Not later, not someday in heaven, not after we die, not when we escape this broken world. No, the Bible's dominant theme is about how to live with God.

right now in the world he made and with the people he put around him. A cursory review of scripture will show you this. Just a few, Old Testament, Micah 6, 8, what does the Lord require of you, O man, to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God? In Deuteronomy 30, Moses is telling the people of Israel how they need to live their lives. And he says, therefore, choose life.

that you may live by loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him. For this is your life and the length of your days. Jeremiah seven talks about treating people fairly, protecting the vulnerable, not oppressing people. That's all about life here. The wisdom literature like Psalms and Proverbs, Proverbs is literally a book about everyday practical wisdom.

and how to handle your speech, how to handle your money, know, your time, relationships, having integrity. The Psalms teach us how to pray in real human situations, grief, joy, betrayal, fear, celebration. The prophets, I think a lot of people think about the prophetic books of the Bible and think those all talk about the end times, but almost everything the prophets say is about how Israel lives in the land.

that God gave them, like how they're presently operating in the world and what the consequences are going to be if they continue down the path that they're going, not how to escape it. Like, in fact, almost all the prophetic books talk about the day when God one day is going to restore it all to the original way he had planned it. And then when you come to Jesus in the New Testament, Jesus is teaching like,

He arrives and what does he talk about? Does Jesus talk about, hey, you have to invite me into your heart. And if you don't do that, your soul is going to twist and burn for all of eternity without end. Like if Jesus' main and only goal was to live a perfect life and die for our sins, then why even bother spending so much time talking about how to live here and now? Because if you look at his teachings, the majority of what he talked about was stuff like,

Like anger, like how not to live daily in anger. What about lust? How do you handle when you find that penetrating your heart? Marriage, how to operate successfully within marriage? Speech, forgiveness, generosity, integrity. Jesus talks so much about money. I mean, if his only goal was to get you out of here someday, why spend so much time talking about money?

He talks about worry. He talks about how to treat our enemies. And all of that is in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5 through 7. The stories that he tells, the parables, these are about people raising sheep. They own vineyards. They build barns. These are stories about earthly wisdom and compassion. And when asked how to pray,

How does Jesus teach people to pray? And all of you listening to this have probably said this prayer at some point in your life. You probably know it by heart. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. What's next? Your kingdom is in heaven? Your kingdom I'll come to someday? No. Your kingdom come, come where? Well, where's Jesus when he's teaching in this? On earth. Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth.

as it is in heaven. The Bible is overwhelmingly about life here and now. Jesus, the point of all scripture, spends almost all of his time teaching about the proper way to live with God, how to love God, and how to love other people. 95 % of it, and that's a conservative estimate, is about that. Not to say the Bible doesn't talk about

an age to come, does, but it is a very small percentage compared to the rest. Because the Bible is about that, so I hope I've established that for you, but the Bible really is about how to live here and now, because of that, then that has something to say about what Christianity is and what it is not. So let me say something gently, but clearly. Christianity is not about escaping this planet.

You think God, you know, like I think most of us have that thought process. Thank God one day I'll be out of this place and I'll be floating on my cloud in the sky. Somewhere along the line, we bought into this idea that the whole point is to get off this island of misfit toys that faith basically is about just hang on until the lifeboat arrives. But when you actually read the Bible, is that what it says?

Does it say you're going to be evacuated to this forever by and by with your gold-plated harp? In Revelation 21, John says that he sees the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven. Not us going up, God coming here. Second Peter 3.13, we await a new heaven and a new earth. Isaiah 65 and 66 talks about God.

renewing all of creation. Romans 8 says that creation itself is longing to be set free. The story of scripture is not about scrapping the world, it's about God restoring it.

and think about what that mindset might mean. If you think that one day you're going to get out of this place finally and go somewhere else, does that impact the way that you treat this place? The way that you think about things like the environment? I think it does. Which means because God's coming to restore it your life here matters.

Your decisions today matter. Your relationships matter. Your habits matter. Your formation matters. And I use that word formation, meaning you're being formed. Your soul, your mind, it's being formed. You can't stop that. Every day, you're being formed and shaped in some way by the influences that you're allowing into your life. And whether that's the news channel that you're watching, what's your

zoning out on when you're on social media or what you're putting into your brain when it comes to, you know, music, all facets of your life, like who you choose to associate with, like all of these things are forming you, some for good, some for not so good. And it's important that you really consider those influences, what you're allowing in your life to form you, because that stuff matters. It matters for here. It matters for now. It matters to your soul.

as well long term. And God cares about this world, not just the next one. There is conversation about the next age in the Bible. I'm not saying that that doesn't exist. I'm just saying God cares about the one that you live in here and now and on the balance, not just the majority, the overwhelming majority. Most of the Bible is about how to operate in this place, in this creation that he has placed you and I in. So if the Bible is about life with God here and now,

And if Jesus is inviting us into a way of life, then what does that say about what it means to be a Christian? So let me tell you what it doesn't mean. Being a Christian is not simply believing in Jesus. And I'm doing air quotes, believing in Jesus. James 2.19 says, even the demons believe and they shudder. So belief alone is not the goal. And in fact, you aren't going to find in the Bible,

any examples of someone who believes in Jesus with no intention of actually trying to live the way he taught. Like, you're not going to find that and have that person be called a follower of Jesus. Like, that's not actual Christianity in any orthodox sense. Yet, we've done a really good job in the church of helping people believe that that's real, that that's accurate, that that's true. Almost like we've taught people that there are two tiers of Christianity. One is...

Well, I'm a believer, but I'm not actually living my life as Jesus taught, right? I got my ticket punched for heaven, but I'm just gonna ride the struggle bus of sin my whole life, and that's okay, because at least when I die, I get to go to heaven. That is kind of the tagline of, I'm just a sinner saved by grace. We've helped people to believe that that is one tier.

of being a Christian. And then the second tier is for the extra credit Christian, right? We call it discipleship. Like that is somehow designed for folks that want to go to some higher level of Christianity. the reality is, in the Bible, there is no first group. There is no first group. There is no, well, I'm going to believe in Jesus for my eternal salvation, but not attempt to follow Him and live the way that He taught.

Like that group doesn't exist in the Bible anywhere. It exists in our culture though. I think you have to agree with me when you look around, maybe even when you look in your own heart, that those things are true. You don't join a taekwondo dojo, like to take it out of the religious world for a second, or the spiritual world. You don't join a taekwondo dojo to get the gi and the white belt and then just say, you know, actually,

I like identifying as someone who's studying taekwondo, but I'll just come to class once a week. I'll sit over here in the bleachers. I never actually participate. But I'll work pretty hard at looking good in my gi. I'll get the language down through pure osmosis of being around people who are actually trying to progress through the art.

you know what my fear is? My fear is that the majority of people that are coming to our churches every Sunday,

are like that and not even necessarily intentionally. They're not to blame because we created, we've cultivated this environment in the church for people to believe that it's okay. Yeah, come to church on Sundays, know, certainly tithe. Of course, we want them to do that. Join a small group, be involved. But if you really, really want to push things, then let's move.

towards becoming a disciple. I'm just telling you that that is not found in scripture. We see it in our churches across the board. That's undeniable. But that's not found in the Bible. And I think we've done that historically. Like when I recall growing up when they would extend the invitation at the end of the service, know, the message, most messages on Sundays were designed to literally

scare the hell out of you by telling you that if you don't decide to invite Jesus into your heart today and don't walk out the door because you could get hit by a truck crossing the street if you've not made this decision, if you don't know that you know that you know that you know, if you don't make that decision, you're gonna burn without end forever in eternal torment. Well.

That makes a pretty easy choice. mean, especially in an emotional moment. If the decision is me inviting Jesus into my heart and then that gets me a ticket out of eternal damnation, then yeah, I mean, is that very difficult decision to make? But I cannot recall a time when anyone ever told me that...

I was actually making a choice in my life in that moment to follow Jesus as his apprentice. It was never positioned to me as, listen, if you've never made this choice before, you can do this. And by making this choice, you need to understand primarily what you're signing up for is to become a disciple. You're saying, hey, I want to learn to live how Jesus taught to live and to learn to live my life that way for the simple reason that having compassion,

It's a better way to live. Granting forgiveness is a better way to live. Loving others is a better way to live. Not carrying anger is just simply a better way to live my life. Staying faithful in my relationships is a better way to live. If Jesus is God and he's powerful enough to save you from hell and you trust him for that, how is it not also true that he is the best example and teacher of how you should live your own life here and now?

Jesus himself says in Luke 6, 46, why do you call me Lord, Lord, but do not do what I tell you? so what is a Christian? A Christian is someone who entrusts their actual life, here this one, to Jesus and seeks to do what he taught. A Christian is an apprentice of Jesus, a disciple, a student, a practitioner.

Someone who is learning to live the way Jesus lived in their home, in their job, in their city, in their relationships, their habits, in their mind, in their internal world. The point of the Bible and the point of Jesus' teaching is not to escape from the earth, but its transformation on earth. Not one day, but this day, today. Not just saved from something, but saved to something.

saved for something. For that person, now, for that person that recognizes being a Christian is learning to live the way Jesus taught, then the Bible becomes immensely valuable, worth even giving your life for. Because it shows us how to live here and now.

Jesus' way of living, he often referred to as entering the kingdom of God. Let's talk for just a moment about this concept that Jesus speaks so frequently about. Not more than any other, but it's pretty high on the list, the concept of the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven. If you grew up in church, you may have heard that phrase and thought, well, that's where you go when you die, or the kingdom of heaven means heaven, you know, someday. But that's not how Jesus uses the phrase. In fact,

may surprise some of you, Jesus never uses the Kingdom of Heaven to talk about a geographical place that you're going to go to after you die. Not even one time. Instead, he talks about the Kingdom as something that is arriving, is active, is invading this present world and reshaping real life right now. Jesus' basic sermon is found throughout the Gospels early on.

But Mark 1 is a pretty good example. The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Repent and believe the good news. At hand doesn't mean far away. It means within reach. It means close enough to touch. Luke 17.21 says the kingdom of God is in your midst, not in the clouds, not after death, not in some distant realm.

right here among you. Matthew 12 28, if I cast out demons by the spirit of God, then the kingdom of heaven has come upon you. Not will come someday, has come. Present tense. Jesus even defines the kingdom in relational terms. Romans 14 17 says, the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. That's not geography, that's a way of living.

When Jesus talks about the kingdom, here's what he means. Think about a king and what makes a king a king. It means that whatever the king's will is, is accomplished. That the king reigns over some area and the size of his kingdom will determine over, you know, how much he reigns. And so when it comes to the kingdom of God, that means God is the king.

So his kingdom is wherever his will is being done, right? Wherever Jesus is followed, wherever lives are being transformed, wherever mercy and justice and love are happening, that is the kingdom. Those things have fallen under the reign and the rule of God. The kingdom is that. It's not the location of God. It is the reign of God.

This is why Jesus teaches us to pray, right? Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. That prayer makes no sense if the kingdom is only in the afterlife. Jesus is literally inviting heaven's life into our earthly life. It's why he tells parables like the mustard seed, or the yeast in the dough, or the treasure in the field, the net thrown into the sea, the good soil, the unforgiving servant, the workers in the vineyard. Every one of those stories is about the kingdom breaking into

ordinary human life, how we forgive, how we treat others, how we respond to God's invitation, how we steward what we've been given. The kingdom Jesus preached is not far away. It's here. It is now. And it's meant to reorder our actual lives. So what does that mean for us? It means that Jesus did not come just to get you into heaven when you die. He came to bring you into his way of life where you live.

His teachings aren't just nice ideas. They're not just moral suggestions. They are the culture, the values, the habits, and the practices of the kingdom. The kingdom is forgiveness, not grudges. Generosity, not greed. It's peace, not anxiety. It's reconciliation, not retaliation. It's humility, not self.

grandizement or exaltation, it's love of neighbor, and it's love of even your enemies. This is earth-related stuff. Life stuff. Today stuff. The kingdom is what life looks like when Jesus is king. Not just of heaven, but of you. That's why I said earlier, a Christian is not simply someone who believes in Jesus.

A Christian is someone who is learning to live the way Jesus taught, not perfectly, not instantly, but intentionally. Because the kingdom is not just where you go someday. It's something you enter into today by surrendering your life to the reign of Jesus. And that is what the Bible is about. So here's where we're going next.

the Bible is a book about living with God here and now, then what does it specifically say about dependence? How do we live daily, practically, in actual dependence on God? What does Jesus say about that? And he has a lot to say about it. So next week we're going to open the Gospels and look at what Jesus actually teaches about how to live life here and now and why it's important that we reorient ourselves towards that way of life daily.

If this episode helped you, share it. If it made you think, subscribe. And if you want to grow in this journey, keep walking along with us. Grace and peace, my friends.