RevOps aren't system admins

Revenue Operations should do more than service commercial teams. Yet most struggle to articulate what strategic revops looks like.

That's exactly what we cover in this episode - how to become an advisor and actively help grow revenue, rather than just doing salesforce validation rules..

In the episode, we cover:

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (01:57) - Don't get blinded by software
• (05:31) - Everyone struggles with articulating strategy
• (07:30) - Start monitoring
• (09:56) - 3 Thing RevOps should care about
• (15:06) - Identifying and mitigating risks
• (18:53) - Define the operating cadence
• (23:41) - Revenue planning

Interested in checking out Growblocks? Take a look here.

Creators and Guests

Host

Mikkel Plaehn

Marketing leader & b2b saas nerd

Host

Toni Hohlbein

2x exited CRO | 1x Founder | Podcast Host

What is The Revenue Formula?

This podcast is about scaling tech startups.

Hosted by Toni Hohlbein & Raul Porojan, together they look at the full funnel.

With a combined 20 years of experience in B2B SaaS and 3 exits, they discuss growing pains, challenges and opportunities they’ve faced. Whether you're working in RevOps, sales, operations, finance or marketing - if you care about revenue, you'll care about this podcast.

If there’s one thing they hate, it’s talk. We know, it’s a bit of an oxymoron. But execution and focus is the key - that’s why each episode is designed to give 1-2 very concrete takeaways.

TRF - 061 - RevOps aren't system admins
[00:00:00] Toni: Hey everyone, this is Toni Holbein. You are listening to the Revenue Formula. In today's episode, we're talking about how revenue operations needs to stop being a system admin for the organization because otherwise they might end up just being the head of IT. Instead they should be focusing on the five things we're diving in today.
[00:00:17] and all of them have to do with revenue costs and risks.
[00:00:26] Mikkel: So, funny story, uh, my daughter yesterday did not want to sleep because she had a nap very late in the day.
[00:00:36] And then,
[00:00:36] Toni: that
[00:00:37] Mikkel: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, uh, she ends up going to bed with me and my wife and she kind of is like caressing my, scalp because I don't really have any hair.
[00:00:47] She turns over and looks at me and goes, Dad. You don't have any hair. no, we should buy you some new hair.
[00:00:55] Toni: Yeah, you should. She's a smart lady.
[00:00:58] Mikkel: yeah. It's like, can I just have some of yours? She starts pulling it out. I was like, no, no, no, no, it's good. It's good. It's good. Yeah.
[00:01:06] Toni: Did you really ask that? I
[00:01:08] Mikkel: I think it's because sometimes, no, anyway, too personal.
[00:01:11] But, um, today we're gonna, I'm gonna segue this today. Let me, today we're going to talk about, uh, something else that's missing. Revenue impact. Revenue impact. So, not so long ago, um, you put together a wonderful post on LinkedIn talking about revenue operations aren't system admins. That's right. This is something we've talked a bit about as well also on this show, uh, in an early, early, early episode.
[00:01:41] Called Putting Revenue Back Into RevOps. That was like one of the first ones. If you want to experience terrible audio quality, go back and find that. Probably this is going to be a bit better. We're basically going to talk a bit about the big problem with revenue operations as we see it today.
[00:01:57] Toni: that's it. And, um, I think, you I think it's important to keep in mind, yes,
[00:02:04] someone needs to manage those tools, someone needs to make sure they work, and so forth, and that job will be with revenue operations. But that doesn't mean that you should be spending all your time on Validation rules and APEX code and is it Salesforce or the HubSpot?
[00:02:26] Um, and, oh, you know, I'm, I don't know what to do anymore. Let's buy another tool. If, if that is ever your thought, then you should buy Growblocks implement
[00:02:36] Mikkel: the last tool.
[00:02:37] Toni: But, but otherwise, otherwise those, those shouldn't be things that, you are trying to push an agenda on. What, what tools are is at the end of the day, there are, ways to benefit your organization, uh, either through more revenue, less cost, mitigating risks, you know, feeling better, whatever it might be, that's what tools are for.
[00:03:00] And What we've seen a lot is that revenue operations, you know, defines the whole being around tools. And that is actually a huge problem. These, the, you know, building it like this has nothing to do, in many cases, nothing to do with revenue impact. And it feels like revenue then sometimes loses the sight of what those tools are actually for.
[00:03:22] It's not for them to have a job. It's for the organization to get better at something.
[00:03:28] Mikkel: And I think we've seen, uh, so far this year, rapid rise in the amount of revenue operations professionals being hired.
[00:03:35] Uh, we've seen research, I think from, I think maybe it was Gartner talking about the efficiency of organizations with revenue operations is way better, like higher revenue growth, da da da da, with revenue operations. So there's this massive promise that you, you know, you're going to hire revenue operations and they're going to come and they're going to grow your revenue.
[00:03:54] But what we're seeing and what you've mentioned a lot in the conversation you've had with folks is they get hired to do Salesforce.
[00:04:01] Toni: So, yes, so this is, I think, this is the starting point and that is okay.
[00:04:06] I think this is really important to keep in mind. It's, uh, you know, people shouldn't be starting to, you know, approach the boss and say, Hey, I shouldn't be managing Salesforce anymore. Um, I, first of all, I think that could be a thing. It could be, you know, in your team, you could also hand it somewhere else.
[00:04:19] It doesn't matter. But, uh, but second of all, um, you know, if you do it, you really need to think about, you know, how this is driving efficiencies and how this is driving revenue for your business. Right. And I think if you don't do that as revenue operations, or if you keep treating, you know, as a CRO listening, if you keep treating revenue operations like that, what is going to happen real soon is that You'll be sitting there and thinking, well, you know, maybe this is not head of revenue operations.
[00:04:48] Maybe it's head of IT,
[00:04:49] Mikkel: Hmm,
[00:04:50] Toni: maybe that's the better title for that person. And maybe they should be sitting in the smelly, stinky old server rack room and smoke a cigarette there or something like this, that, you know, that, that is what's going to become, um, you know, out of this role if, if the focus stays on tooling and not back on revenue.
[00:05:11] Mikkel: And I think that's really what we want to change also in part with this episode and a lot of the content we create is almost like a movement to understand that revenue operations is perfectly positioned as a team to actually influence revenue if they do the right things. But that is where the struggle often begins.
[00:05:29] What should I then be doing?
[00:05:31] Toni: I think it's, um, and then this is goes really into a direction where, you know, some people are saying the strategic part of revenue operations. Sometimes they call it revenue strategy, go to market strategy. And what, what we have found and we'll cover this, um, you know, thoroughly later on, actually. Um, well, not later on.
[00:05:49] Mikkel: in a minute.
[00:05:51] Toni: No, actually, anyway. Um, so. A lot of people are referring to this sometimes revenue strategy, go to market strategy. Um, and if you ask people, okay, so what does strategy actually mean to you, right? It's basically everyone is struggling even to articulate it. Um, and if they. If they can't articulate it, how, how can you expect them then to go to their boss and try and sell it to them and be like, Well, you know, I should be really doing those really important things.
[00:06:19] And only then they will get the time because usually time is the big constraint here. Only then they will be able to get the time in order to start, you know, working on those. Bigger, you know, worse issues for the organization. Um, and it's really a chicken egg kind of situation, uh, because of this, uh, you know, not knowing what that actually means, having difficulty articulating, and then basically not having the time in order to execute it.
[00:06:45] And I think lots of that stuff comes from a mindset that is focused around tools. It's like, what, what little thing can I change? Right. And that mindset is sometimes enhanced and reinforced by, you know, Greg, the AE,
[00:06:57] Mikkel: Oh, Greg is back on the show.
[00:06:59] Toni: That says, Hey, um, Mikkel, just, I really need this report, your
[00:07:04] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:07:05] Toni: you know, yesterday, double, double quick.
[00:07:08] Um, and, and then you kind of give it to him. And then two weeks later you log in and it's like zero views on the report.
[00:07:15] Mikkel: Never opened the email.
[00:07:17] So so
[00:07:18] Toni: there's this, there's this environment and there's the, um, uh, both internally and externally. And, um, I think what we're trying to achieve here is to help everyone listening.
[00:07:28] And or watching, um, to break out of the cycle.
[00:07:30] Mikkel: Yeah So I think we should go into it, right? So we talked about there's this massive promise that you're gonna build out revenue operations They're gonna go and drive revenue and grow your revenues and efficiencies and all that stuff.
[00:07:41] What is the solution here that we are going to propose? How do you, if you're sitting right now and you're a VP, RevOps director, or even just a RevOps manager, what are the things you should start focusing on?
[00:07:54] Toni: you should start focusing on? Yeah, so I think, I think let's start by, uh, let's start by very simple things like monitoring your revenue engine, you know, try and find trouble.
[00:08:06] That's that's how I see this. And this is really, monitoring. What the targets were, where you're trending today, are you trending in the right direction, are there issues coming up? And this is really like a daily task almost, kind of, you really being on top of these things, you're seeing if conversion rates are trailing off.
[00:08:23] And we're not talking about conversion rates like sales, uh, you know, won to close. There are conversion rates high up in your funnel that you can look at daily, right? You have your lead pickup, right? Lead created to MQL. That is a conversion rate that happens in minutes sometimes. Uh, really thinking about that, you know, take a, take a look at this.
[00:08:42] And, or there might be other areas in your funnel that are changing daily. And need, need a set of eyes on those actually, right? And, and when then something triggers, you need to be able to jump in, understand, you know, why this is going on and to, you know, tap someone on the shoulder to take, to fix it, right?
[00:08:57] Because what's otherwise going to happen is something, um, that we are more and more referring to as revenue leakage. You know, you have even small delays in your funnel, you really, you know, they, they sum up and over time they become bigger and bigger amounts of revenue, you can call them efficiency or something like this, uh, but really seeing this as, well, this is revenue that your revenue engine is owed, but it's, it was taken away because of silly stuff, right?
[00:09:26] And you being on top of that, um, and yes, that might actually be a daily task. So. Don't, you know, don't burn the whole day on this, but be, be on the front foot of these things.
[00:09:36] Mikkel: I also think if you want to become that strategic partner, that means interfacing with someone like the CMO, the, you know, VP of sales.
[00:09:45] And if you want to be able to interface with them, you need to know what they care about. And what they will know is exactly where they are on the important metrics to their function. They know whether they're behind or not, right?
[00:09:56] Toni: Actually, let me, you know, almost one step back. So what is actually important here?
[00:10:02] The only three things you as revenue operations should be caring about. Three things. More revenue, less cost, and mitigating risks. Those are the three things. Everything else you shouldn't, you shouldn't give a fuck about, actually. Uh, tools are really just ways to achieve that. It's just like... You know, the team around you and, you know, in other departments, there's just ways to achieve that really.
[00:10:25] Um, and if you, if you have trouble connecting yourself to these things, you're in trouble. Um, and when you are talking about metrics, um, and we did a really cool revenue letter recently, you know, on, on my sub stack on this.
[00:10:40] you know, thinking about metrics, some of that, you know, sometimes feels like vanity and it's, you know, let's not talk about that necessarily, but the important pieces, you need to connect all of this back to revenue.
[00:10:51] Even if you're talking about traffic, even if you're talking about social followers, even if you're talking about, you know, leads and not even MQLs, if you're talking about these things and just saying like, you know, the leads aren't there. That might be interesting to not even the CMO, by the way, maybe to someone in marketing, certainly not to anyone in sales, you need to translate it back to revenue and just say like, well, that gap here, that lead gap, that is actually resulting in 1.
[00:11:17] 5 million by the end of the year. So we should, you know, probably take a look at this, right? That language, that is the language that people, you know, want to hear you talk. Um, and the same actually goes into things like, um, hiring and the hiring process. And, you know, whether or not you're actually going to, uh, be hitting those hiring targets that you set yourself, right?
[00:11:35] So on the one hand side, you could be like, Oh, wow, great. We, um, we pushed out those three hires. We saved some money, Toni. There you go. Cost saved. And you know, that, that. Understanding that is already fully carried and owned by your finance team. So you don't need to add any value there. What you should be doing instead is like, Oh, well, yes, we saved those three monthly salaries here.
[00:11:56] But really the revenue impact that we're going to suffer from, you know, by the end of this year is X. So my friend, I'm sorry, we actually lost money here. We didn't make any, right? That kind of conversation, that is like a, um, that is a completely different thing. Uh, and, and this, this happened through you.
[00:12:14] Monitoring, observing what is going on and really connecting this back to revenue cost risks, and flagging this immediately. So really finding trouble proactively.
[00:12:24] Mikkel: Okay. So, so what you're saying is we really need to focus on monitoring the revenue end to end, really understand what's moving, where's the leakage, what can we do to kind of mitigate, uh, mitigate any, any kind of risks in, in this path, right? On the other side, you also have potential successes.
[00:12:40] Toni: Yes. So really this is, this is kind of the other side of the coin. So finding trouble, repeating success.
[00:12:47] And really repeating successes, you need to look for what is actually working well.
[00:12:52] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:12:53] Toni: and, um, this could be, again, this could be simple things like this process works really well in, in the German speaking region, but it really doesn't work well at all in the US. Uh, so what is here to be learned, you know, go and talk to those leaders, check out the data, you know, what's behind that.
[00:13:11] And try and figure out why one thing is working better than the other. And once you have understood it, you need to go and actually build a project and sell it to the one that hasn't been doing so well. And then say, if you fix those three things here that I've identified, you will likely get the same conversion rate, let's just say that's the metric, as in the German speaking region, which will really result in X amount of millions of revenue by the end of the year.
[00:13:37] That needs to be the kind you articulate. Uh, the projects that you want to push and, and yes, those projects could even be tooling based. It could be that for some reason, the German speaking folks, they have like something that they're using next to the CRM and that helps them a lot. Um, and maybe that's what they need to implement also with the US folks, right?
[00:13:57] But that is really the, um, at the end of the day, you need to find those things that are going well as, as well as trouble that you need to mitigate, um, and try and find ways to replicate that across, right? Sometimes even Uh, let's just say you have, um, uh, an action planned on improving ACV across the board.
[00:14:16] Like every, every region should be doing this, and guess what? Some regions will actually be achieving it versus others won't. So why is that, right? Is that an external thing? Is it competitive pressure? Okay, cool. What do we think about this? How do we update now our forecast based on this? Or is it an enablement issue?
[00:14:32] Or is it, uh, the leader isn't strong enough to kind of make sure that people are comfortable asking those questions? So I was there. A product market fit issue. Maybe the product that you're selling in the U. S. Is less so fit for that geography versus, uh, maybe in Europe. I
[00:14:48] Mikkel: in Europe. I mean, already here is pretty powerful. If you're able to just achieve this part, you're, you're definitely on a path to make a revenue impact, right? We have a couple of other nuggets though.
[00:14:58] Toni: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:59] Mikkel: This is like a long list. Yeah.
[00:15:01] Toni: not done. So if you think this is a lot, well, you know, that, you know, there's more,
[00:15:06] Mikkel: Yeah.
[00:15:06] Toni: more. Um, so again, right, we talked about, um, uh, improving revenue, uh, cutting costs or, you know, saving costs. And then the last one is actually mitigating, identifying and mitigating risks, right?
[00:15:20] And this is really. So think about it as the following, first of all, this is forward looking, this is being proactive, and this is what some people refer to sometimes as the strategic part of revenue operations. So you, you're today here and you're looking into the future and you're seeing issues potentially emerging that might be threatening things that your boss cares about.
[00:15:41] And, and those things, again, It's revenue, it's cost. Those, that's it. That's it. And if you, are able to see some of those things upcoming, then you basically need to proactively try and, you know, manage those away and or make people aware that there's something like this happening. Right? On the simple level, it could be, oh, you know, I think, um, This talent attraction person is leaving, this will in three months time have an impact on our ability to hire enough people.
[00:16:08] Uh, we really need to find ways to mitigate this problem right now because if those three hires are pushing out, we have so much less money for the rest of the year that we're gonna bring in. So now that gives you almost a budget. That's a mini ROI right there to say, Okay, can we spend some money to find this talent attraction person?
[00:16:28] Or do we need to go to an agency or something like that, right? That is, that is mitigating risks right there, right? And, um, uh, again, what's really, really important is the ability to articulate this, properly up the chain and connect it to revenue or cost. You know, if, if there's anything else there.
[00:16:48] It's going to be pretty, pretty boring for everyone and it almost feels like a complaining thing. It's like, ah, you know, we're going to have an issue there. I say, okay, sure, we'll, you know, we have plenty of issues. Mikkel, we'll, we'll work through those. Um, but really, you know, first of all, connecting it to a possible solution, but also having almost a business case and I'm not saying like a big document, but having a business case that helps you to sum it up and say like, Hey, those are the three reasons we really need to do, do this.
[00:17:12] You know, that, that's, that's strategy, strategy right there.
[00:17:15] Mikkel: I think it's also just if, if you take the view of the leader in this, in this case, right?
[00:17:21] Having someone come, not only flag a risk, but also proposing a solution that just makes everything a whole lot easier. And guess what? Next time, you know, there's, there's a saying that problems have a tendency to find someone who can fix them, right? And what you want to become in that scenario is that person for, especially the CRO, the CMO, the VP sales, become that person where their problems.
[00:17:43] Come to you so you can help fix them and hit the revenue number.
[00:17:45] Toni: Yeah, but also think about the, you know, the thing that changes in that, you know, CROs head when they walk away from this meeting.
[00:17:53] Mikkel: Yeah. Wait, this person doesn't only do Salesforce by the
[00:17:56] Toni: Yeah. Well, first of all that, but it's also like, geez, you know, that was really, this was really useful. So it's like, um, uh, it's really a, um, also, you know, bumping you up as a, as an employee, if you will, um, but bumping up the whole function. And it's like, wait a minute, these guys can actually help us with all of these things.
[00:18:17] Um, and, uh, also the, the increased confidence these guys will have in, um, you know, what this, what this role, what you can actually deliver and bring to the table will get a massive bump, right? And, uh, even there's then, you know, increasingly so this, this thing building is an expectation that's almost like a good thing where the CRO expects you to come forward with these, uh, with these issues proactively and have a solution.
[00:18:42] And you know what? It will give her some more peace of mind to sleep better. And that's massive value actually also right there.
[00:18:50] Mikkel: That's an efficiency gain, efficiency gain right there.
[00:18:53] Toni: Okay. Moving on to something that's almost like a, kind of an annual wheel, you could say. we call it running the operating cadence. Yeah. And, um, and then, you know, and this is, you know, in truth, this is a collection of meetings.
[00:19:11] And everyone is like, how's that? Sorry, how's that
[00:19:15] Mikkel: I'm already booked, Toni.
[00:19:16] Toni: Yeah. Um, so the reason why it's strategic is, uh, think about you being a product manager, a project manager, think about you being a project manager and, uh, one of the projects or the project that you're responsible with managing through like, you know, multiple stakeholders.
[00:19:34] For a full year's time being the most important thing for the whole organization, you know, picture this. and you're the one managing that through. Guess what? That is actually what this is about, right? This is, uh, this is hitting the revenue target, hitting the financial targets for the year across all the different teams and stakeholders and departments and, and whatnot.
[00:19:54] And basically keeping the whole project on track. That's how you need to think about it. So there's a weekly component to it, which will be, you know, usually structured around, common topics. We've seen that there's a demand gen meeting weekly, which is, uh, might be your SDR leader, your marketing leader, maybe you have a partnership, uh, motion.
[00:20:12] And you will have a sales execution meeting, which is around sales forecasting, pipeline and so forth. You will have a customer growth piece, which is around churn and upsell. And you know, all of these pieces, uh, you will have something around hiring and people maybe, you know, bi weekly, so every other week rather than once a week.
[00:20:29] And then depending on your organization, for example, if you're PLG heavy, you might have a specific meeting for that, right? And what you want to be able to do in those sessions is to very clearly show the numbers. Here's where we are. Here's where we should be. If there's a gap, there's a delay now, you know, think about it as a project.
[00:20:48] Oh, you know, project scope, oh, scope creep, um, or, or something delayed. Now we need to figure out how you're going to change this thing and still deliver this project on time and on budget. And that is basically your weekly check ins. That's the way how you want to do that, right? and then, you know, once those issues are identified, you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe it.
[00:21:08] It's so many leaders know exactly that something is off. And then having someone just sheepishly, you know, raising their hand and saying, Hey, this is, this is a problem, right? We're not going to be able to achieve X, Y, and Z, you know, with this blocker here right now, and just saying out loud, everyone's like, ah, yes.
[00:21:28] Yes. And now, now that it is said, it cannot be unsaid. Now we need to deal with this. Um, and, and again, you have delivered massive value for the organization in a second.
[00:21:38] Mikkel: it's also just the point.
[00:21:39] We know what a CRO really is focused on is, will the plan get us to target? Number one,
[00:21:48] Toni: actually what the CRO is focused on is like, am I going to hit my quarterly target?
[00:21:52] Mikkel: Yeah, no, no. But that's what I mean will get, will the plan, get us a target, and then the second layer is, can we make the plan happen?
[00:21:59] Right. And that's really the power of those meetings to open. Like, like you said, once you've said it is, you know, you can't unsay it. Um, so super powerful. We've, I mean, we have a bunch of episodes on, not a bunch. We have like two episodes on, QBRs among others, which is a part of the operating cadence.
[00:22:14] Toni: Yes. And I think, you know, this ties a little bit into the, the, the intro here to the solution set. So the monitoring should be happening ongoing, daily, or maybe use a tool that pings you proactively.
[00:22:25] Maybe you check us out. And otherwise obviously, you know, having a weekly cadence, a monthly cadence, a quarterly cadence that can be structured differently, right? On the weeklies, you should be focusing on the numbers that Make sense to discuss weekly, AKA they're moving on a weekly rhythm. again, that wouldn't be your sales cycle length or your conversion rate metrics and sales, uh, because they just, they aren't moving that fast.
[00:22:49] Uh, but then when you go into monthly or quarterly. That's actually where some of those metrics are, you know, increasingly so important, right? And then on the quarterly level, what, what will happen more often is that, there's a bit of closure. Hey, this was achieved or not achieved, you know, revenue has been missed and it will be really difficult to catch up, right?
[00:23:07] Every gap you accumulate, You need to over perform the next couple of months in order to close that, by the way. And that will require you to do some slight re planning. Some shifting of resources, some realization of, hey, this isn't working. And that will usually happen on the monthly or quarterly level.
[00:23:23] And you should be the one driving this. You should be like, hey, so, we're behind. Are we, are we not shooting for this anymore? Uh, well, yes we are. Well, then we need to do something about this. Uh, and we will need to have resources in order to achieve this. And, and here's my plan of, you know, maybe what we should be doing instead.
[00:23:40] Right.
[00:23:41] Mikkel: Speaking of plan.
[00:23:43] Yeah. Which is basically the last piece where you can also really make an impact. So you and I have joked a bit about the fact that sometimes planning happen in January, the year's already started, kickoffs happen in February, and then you never look at the plan again. And it's some sheet that's hidden away and you have 20 versions of that sheet, right?
[00:24:00] So let's talk a bit about the planning piece. What is the role of revenue operations in this
[00:24:04] Toni: so depending on the size of your organization, let's just say you're below 100 million in ARR. what we usually see is that revenue operations is part of the planning process, not leading it. That's finance and the CFO, you know, don't, don't mess with that. Uh, but basically once a budget has been achieved or.
[00:24:24] So this would be in sequence. Then you are like, okay, can you please pressure test this, double check this, you know, bottom up versus top down. Sometimes we see it, you know, being done in parallel. Um, but what's really important is that, you are, you are creating a model, a plan. That represents the funnel and the revenue engine, how it needs to behave on a daily basis, by the way, in order to hit this revenue goal that you want to have by the end of the year.
[00:24:50] It's really important to do that. Um, and it's really important here to obviously plug in the people that you want to hire. And, you know, you want to understand how that is generating revenue, where you maybe have some bottlenecks where maybe there's some issues compared to the financial plan. And, You want to be making really clear, okay, there are some assumptions here in this financial plan and I'll, I will, you know, in order to actually get from A to B, according to the financial top-down target, I actually need to incorporate some of those assumptions here.
[00:25:23] And those assumptions sometimes might be, oops, there's gonna be an a c V lift in, uh, June there, you know, we should be getting better on conversion rates. So we are just having like a 2%, you know, lift starting January. Ramping to December. I mean, you see this a lot, by the way, and you will need to, you know, model those things in and you will sometimes realize, oh gosh, that is not only a large isolated impact, but with all the other little mini impacts around it, you know, our favorite topic, you suddenly get to like a compounding effect of those little impacts and then you realize, wait a minute, so all of those increases, that all of them have a merit, by the way, it's not totally random, all of them compound to like a massive, first of all, revenue lift, but also then therefore usually because it's not connected to more resources, a efficiency lift. And you want to be able to see, okay, this is 5 million with like 5 million riding.
[00:26:25] on just things happening. And, and this is then where you have the ability to step up and first of all, you know, slightly call BS or. Hey, Mr. CFO, maybe we need to be careful with these, uh, magic ideas here. Or to at least say, okay, we will have a 5 million gain from this, right? Everyone says yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[00:26:45] Okay, you know what? I'm going to give you the best ROI ever. Do you have 1 million euros that you want to be investing in order to get those 5 million out? That would be like a, you know, crazy CAC Payback, by the way. You should be taking this. Everyone should be taking 5 million for 5 million. You're, you're proposing 1 million for 5 million.
[00:27:04] And you know what's gonna happen? They're gonna look and he's like... No, we need those 5 million to be for free. Um, and this
[00:27:14] Mikkel: Just work harder.
[00:27:14] Toni: yeah, and this is where you as revenue operations kind of need to stand up, hold up your hand and be like, okay, so how are we going to achieve this actually? Right. And, and it's, this is that kind of conversation. I'm sorry. Like massive strategic
[00:27:27] Mikkel: And it's like, uh, Ben Murray said when we talk with him about this specific issue, like what fundamentally has changed in our business to expect something like that to happen?
[00:27:38] Um,
[00:27:39] Toni: Yes.
[00:27:39] Mikkel: okay. So we've talked obviously with, or you've talked with So many RevOps folks, GTM leaders, CROs at Unicorns and Soonicorns, who follow this approach. And they've obviously grown super fast, they're really successful. But I just started noting down here some of the stuff that needs to happen, right? You need to have a revenue model and a sheet, that's pretty...
[00:28:01] A lot to do in order to do a bottom up plan, also a lot, then you need to have a process to monitor revenue. And that's what like BI and you need to find risks. That's probably an ad hoc thing. And then just building QBR decks. I mean, this is a lot. How,
[00:28:16] like, you need time for that. How do you solve it?
[00:28:20] Toni: Yeah, the, the, the solution is, uh, is a bit of a, of a plug here. Um, but I think what you would need to do is you need to start investing in a, revenue planning and monitoring solution. and yes, Growblocks is kind of, you know, building that case increasingly so with our customers.
[00:28:35] And, and I think starting to create this category actually, right? I think the way we're seeing this develop is that there needs to be a end to end revenue operations platform, purpose built for RevOps, right? And in our case, it's, you know, built by RevOps for RevOps, if you want to use that. But what's really kind of important here is there's plenty of solutions that are helping folks with, Uh, Sales Ops problems or Marketing Ops problems or CS Ops problems, but there's actually nothing out there that helps you to run a unified revenue operations team end to end for the funnel.
[00:29:14] and really what's so key, it's not about nice visualizations and the funnel and that's cool. It's really about how can I drive revenue? How can I, uh, reduce costs? And how can I mitigate risks, right? Those are the three main points I need to be able to do. and, uh, and I think a tooling upgrade might be able to, to help you achieve that.
[00:29:38] Mikkel: And I mean, we followed this process when we worked together eons ago. Hit 12 quarters in a row.
[00:29:44] So it's not just something that was cooked up in a lab. This is, you know, a proven process We've been following and also been implementing with customers.
[00:29:53] so if you're interested check it out You can still do this stuff. We gave you all these Nuggets for free Uh, this is highly educational. That's why we're doing this show, but this was so close to home.
[00:30:04] It made sense for us to
[00:30:05] Toni: No, absolutely. I think what's, what's difficult is the, the, the monitoring bit.
[00:30:10] I think that's difficult to kind of, to do in a homegrown solution. Um, some of the other pieces you, you know, maybe can use Excel, maybe. Cut that. I dunno.
[00:30:20] Mikkel: Wonderful.
[00:30:23] Toni: I think, I think what's really important to keep in mind is, um, you know, we, we're coming from the system admin thing and whatever you do, you need to start finding ways to go to revenue, to cost, to risks.
[00:30:37] That's what you need to be able to achieve. Right. And, um, and otherwise what I'm, I think what we are worried about is that this whole promise of revenue operations being the end all be all of efficiency of faster growth and so forth. That it kind of fizzles away and again becomes the head of IT
[00:30:55] Mikkel: Yeah, we don't want that. We don't want that. So I hope this was uh, helping stepping stone for the listeners.
[00:31:03] Toni: I, I hope so too.
[00:31:05] Mikkel: Well, thank you, Toni. And thanks listeners.
[00:31:08] Toni: listening. Bye bye.
[00:31:09] Mikkel: Bye.